we're back at CounterStrike medieval.

[Lichen]

I am pretty sure that at least 21 out of these 22 would not use a bow even if they were hired as violinists. The better players are the ones that want challenge. They go melee. Talk as much as you want about calculating arrow drop and relative speeds, but the bottom line is that archers are not mathematicians and 90% of what they do is point and click. Yes, fast point and click takes just a bit of skill.

First not everybody has great pings so melee while it can still be done it takes more compensation the higher your ping and if you are up against good players then you are really at even more a disadvantage. Some people go ranged because of that reason. Also are 90% of enemies standing still waiting to receive arrows? Or running perfectly straight at archers? If not then no '90% point and click'. A lot of melee players can't seem to accept a different skillset as valid other than melee.

When archers top the scores that is really bad. A melee player that killed 10, had to face each one and get into their threat range in order to kill them. An archer that killed 10 could have climbed some barely accessible position and killed 10 people that were not engaged with him and unless archers themselves, could not hit him back.

If he is on an inaccessible area that is one thing. If he is not then there is no problem. Does the other team have ranged as well? If an archer gets 10 kills and the other team has failed to do something about it then they deserve to lose. You can't win despite sucking.

[Tears of Destiny]

I don't think any time I topped the scoreboards as an archer or even was in the top five I was camping...

I guess I am doing it wrong   

In my experience, static archers tend to be rather dead in a quicker fashion then archers that run and gun.

[Gildiss]

I don't think any time I topped the scoreboards as an archer or even was in the top five I was camping...

I guess I am doing it wrong   

In my experience, static archers tend to be rather dead in a quicker fashion then archers that run and gun.

I can confirm that you are a p bad archer.

[RamsesXXIIX]

I can confirm that you are a p bad archer.

And i can confirm you are bloody ignorant.

Saying Tears is a bad archer is like saying Mega is a calm person.

[Joseph]

First not everybody has great pings so melee while it can still be done it takes more compensation the higher your ping and if you are up against good players then you are really at even more a disadvantage. Some people go ranged because of that reason. Also are 90% of enemies standing still waiting to receive arrows? Or running perfectly straight at archers? If not then no '90% point and click'. A lot of melee players can't seem to accept a different skillset as valid other than melee.

I have to train almost every day on the duel server to stay on top. Do you do the same? I don't think so.

[karasu]

Yeah... this is really a strange feeling to play an alt of a class you're terrible at (like me and throwing), suddenly your lifetime expectations seem to double as nobody focuses you. Battle assassinations ftw 

By that I mean that characters usually topping the charts try to kill each other as soon as possible, when their class allows it. It's easier to aim at particular people with a ranged weapon than surviving an half map obstacle course and sneaking up on someone.

What I tried to explain is this, which I'm gonna quote myself from an old post, regarding at least archery:

(...)

Archery is supposed to be a support class, not a "pie cutter" as 2 handers or Pole(axers p.e.).

As such, according to the Scene specifications, and to the enemy team/friendly team setups, you make your own decisions and priorities for the team success.

If it's a map where cavalry is the main issue, you focus on clearing the cavalry as MAIN priority (not forgetting the enemy team ranged), even if it means negative K/D on the Egometers.

If focusing on the main threat from the other team, whom could be a major shielder tincan with 192308120938 IF, wasting 2 stacks on him, means that the team is going to have a lot of greater chances on winning, I do it, specially when I know nobody else cba to do it, too busy shooting peasants.

The team wins, you win as-well. Keep this in mind.


When I see a player with more than decent score on the egometers as archer, I tend to go spectate him(her) for a couple of rounds, and saddens me to see that they are simply aiming into the poor lowbies and low armored folks, instead of doing what they are supposed to. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, like the cases of Jambi, Stulle, Tenne, who are deadly on their job.

(...)


Cheers.

[Adam_Bomb]

Some discombobulated thoughts while reading this drivel: This sounds eeriely familiar to the pre patch nerf throwing threads.  Happy now? Throwing has all but been removed from the game... Remove ladders?? Gah, might as well just go back to vanillia... So strange that people who play the classes that have the highest K/D ratios are the ones that blather and cry the most. Whine whine whine whine... Archery should only be a support class? Well, it IS.  Melee get way more kills.  How many times have I heard melee guys call out "Archers! Shoot Cavalry! Don't mind having them then eh? Also, as a dedicated xbow, I get WAY more kills when facing archers... Stop this (I know you won't) before chadz does what he did to throwing and nerfs archery beyond use.  You big babies won't be happy till archery is dead, don't lie to yourselves. 

[Tears of Destiny]

I have to train almost every day on the duel server to stay on top. Do you do the same? I don't think so.

If I go more then a few days without shooting, then yes I notice a decrease in performing my "support class" roles. Despite contrary opinion, trying to gauge how to properly hit a zig-zaging high maneuverability horse is more then just guess work or a little bit of training. It requires you to build that "instinct" to land shots without thinking too much about them (no one said we were literally calculating).

The reason why archers don't practice often in the duel server is because only EU has a proper duel server, the NA one is so claustrophobic that archer is near pointless unless you want to practice nothing but super short range shooting in mostly boring terrain. How often do you see cav practice in the duel servers? Same reason, some classes are not meant for duels (especially not in that cramped hellhole of a duel server that NA has).

Melee requires fantastic practice for proper timing and so on so forth, but archery requires more practice on finding that "feel" for how far and how high your shot should be to hit a target. Honestly saying that archery is just a point and click adventure is absurd. They both require practice, they both require skills (just very different ones). If you are so bloody damn good that you got 3 headshots the instant you tried archery and found it to be so easy, how about when I hit level 30 again with my archer we both hit the same battle server and play for a few maps, then compare scores? I am dying to see you demonstrate the EZ mode or your stunning natural ability to me. To make it fair we can both use the exact same loadout.

EDIT: You can make a new character, use the "skip the fun" feature, get your desired archer loadout and make the same stats that I made, so we are identical, then we can do our "competition" and then at the end of it you can delete the "skip the fun" my old friendcher you made and go back to playing your normal character.

I can confirm that you are a p bad archer.

Hey I'm not bad I'm just harmless. 

[Miley]

Crossbows are the problem, not archers.

[Gnjus]

Remove ladders?? Gah, might as well just go back to vanillia...

Please do so.
Not that we would notice anyways, mister D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. arbalest user......I'm really sorry but i don't recall ever hearing of you and i happen to know all the D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. arbalest players (who are of any use to their teams/clans/whatever) on EU servers by their names and deeds (from early beta days until today) but i simply don't recall you nor your "special" arbalest. Either I'm getting too old for this shit or you simply weren't so D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. back in the old days when it actually took some skill to hit anything with sniper crossbow but suddenly, when any fool can be a "legendary croosbowman" you decided to become one yourself......or you're just a D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D zero. Nil. Nothing. Null. Cero. нулю. sıfır.

You big babies won't be happy till archery is dead, don't lie to yourselves.

Same as some guys before you: you might wanna learn to read. It helps a lot.


Also: the middle part of your in-game nickname is a waste of space, you could very well do without it.

[Lt_Anders]

Crossbows are the problem, not archers.

Directed at me?

[Lichen]

I have to train almost every day on the duel server to stay on top. Do you do the same? I don't think so.

So are you implying archery is not difficult enough? If it was made harder and archers still found a way to do good would it be 'ok' then? Would it finally be accepted as a valid skillset by some? I'm not even an archer really. I just tried it mainly because of this thread.

[Adam_Bomb]

Please do so.
Not that we would notice anyways, mister D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. arbalest user......I'm really sorry but i don't recall ever hearing of you and i happen to know all the D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. arbalest players (who are of any use to their teams/clans/whatever) on EU servers by their names and deeds (from early beta days until today) but i simply don't recall you nor your "special" arbalest. Either I'm getting too old for this shit or you simply weren't so D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. back in the old days when it actually took some skill to hit anything with sniper crossbow but suddenly, when any fool can be a "legendary croosbowman" you decided to become one yourself......or you're just a D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D zero. Nil. Nothing. Null. Cero. нулю. sıfır.


Same as some guys before you: you might wanna learn to read. It helps a lot.


Also: the middle part of your in-game nickname is a waste of space, you could very well do without it.

I play in NA and I've never seen you in there either, I only know you from your trollish posts on these forums. And I've always played with an xbow

[Gnjus]

I play in NA

Might of thought that since I don't see our (EU) D.E.D.I.C.A.T.E.D. crossbowmen (and we have quite enough of em) posting rubbish here.

[Keshian]

I am an archer/2h hybrid.  When I'm motivated I go to the duel server to keep my skills honed in 2handing.  I go to battle server (not siege) to keep my archery skills honed.  In both I tend to suck for the first 15-20 minutes as I warm up.  In duel server, manual blocking skills are honed, but on most battle servers, if I am not feeling up to the challenge of trying to get kills as an archer, I just switch to 2her with better armor and while I am a decent manual blocker I am definitely not great but  just by minimal blocking and then good footwork I can do well and rack up kills and die less than as an archer (and I am not even using the backpedal spam of an elegant poleaxe or long hafted blade or the 1-hit kills of a bec or the lolstab of a danish greatsword).  I top the charts as both an archer and a 2her and in order of concentration, focus, and difficulty it goes like this:
2her (duel server)
archer (battle server)
2her (battle server)
archer (siege server)
2her (siege server)

I don't think people realize how hard it is to kill the heavily armored 2hers/polearmers/shielders.  That top list of k/d are all people I focus on every time im on a server because I want to keep my multi and the sooner in the round I kill them the better my team does.  And almost all of them take anywhere from 6 to 13 (goretooth) arrows to kill.  Considering how slow the draw speed of the bow is its not hard for half your team to die before you have only gotten 4-5 arrows in them or in their shield or glanced off their heavy armor. 
Arrows can be dodged, they veer off, they miss so that 4-5 hits on a key player awar of you targeting them might be 10 arrows spent from your quiver.  Combine that with coursers that take 4-5 arrows to take down (and who target archers) and pretty much everyone on the list and most lance-cav can 1-hit you as an archer pretty easily you have to be very focused to not only to stay alive but to get good kills (thats true for melee and cav too who target cheap peasant kills, those are not good kills).

I personally applaud the organization of the fallen archer, most random pub battles no one realizes they need to protect their lightly armored archers and they usually get raped by shielders and cav.  So they protect each other, which I think is great for any clan to do, I know I get more kills and less deaths when Cyranule, Matey or Kalam are covering my back and I am shooting the guys they melee or softening up the guys they will melee soon.

I am not a big fan of roof camping (hardly go up there except to find that last afk person left alive) but when you are on a random pub team that may be the only way to stay alive as the cav and shielders and ranged target you and most people on your team with shiields and heavy armor don't understand the need for team support., more focused on racking up high k/ds and then complaining about the opposing ranged after all their own ranged mysteriously died while they were busy elsewhere.