cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Varyag on April 22, 2011, 01:32:19 am

Title: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Varyag on April 22, 2011, 01:32:19 am
Hi folks,

To start with, this is not a rage or drama thread (I hope). It’s the voice of despaired.

In this thread I will share with you my thoughts and concerns on the current state of cRPG project. To start with, I will present my cRPG experience, just to show that I have a right to say.

I started playing cRPG the next week it came public. I was the second player that bought horse in cRPG, which was immensely expensive at that time.  I am a member of Mercs clan. I am a donator. Also, this week I was permanently banned on all EU servers for attacking friendly tincans with my LVL 1 CHAR ARMED WITH KNIFE! Yes, I am a dangerous man!

It gave me time to think about what’s going on in cRPG.

Ok, enough about me, I shall get to the topic. What we now call the “early cRPG beta” (and what I consider the only true cRPG) attracted me in the first place with the idea that I could have a persistent character THAT IS CONSTANTLY IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING. I.e. every time you levelled up at that time, or bought new piece of equip, was like a holiday, a celebration if you wish. Huge amounts of joy, and I am very grateful to chadz for these moments! Levelling was very slow, items were very expensive, cRPG life was full of meaning. The dev team is constantly talking about balance, nerfs, rebalance, tweaks. IMHO the “early beta” paradoxically was the most balanced and joyful cRPG experience I had so far. You may disagree with that, but THAT’S MY IMHO.

So, where are we now? Where is that CONSTANTLY IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING thing now? Well, pretty much it’s gone. As soon as you hit lvl 31 (and for me it takes about one week and a half), the IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING part is over, since I can afford pretty much everything, every equip. I am not a cRPG millionaire, but I have 200k gold and masterwork primary weapon. As for levelling, as you know, lvl 35 is the cap, and there is no big difference between lvls 31 and 35. So, personally I kept playing only for the sake of funny fights, 3 vs 1 fights I can win, for adrenalin. Now tell me what is the big difference between current cRPG and Warband? In both games players have same levels, same weapons (albeit a bit smaller variability in Warband), same armors. And this is very sad. I mean, c’mon, when was the last time we saw large scale PEASANT WARS?

Another thing that bothers me is the ease with which you can be teamkilled and can teamkill yourself. No real penalties. IMHO this is a shame. Now if you teamkill someone, your whole team suffers (as if it is their fault), while before only you were personally responsible for TKs. And responsibility was harsh, and for good. I would be glad to see the old TK penalty system back.

To conclude, cRPG is clearly loosing it’s magic, and this is sad. And probably very soon cRPG will lose me (which will make some of you, my old virtual enemies, very happy, but I really don’t care).

I hope this testimony will trigger some deep reflection in general public and the dev team. And no disrespect meant.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Cris on April 22, 2011, 01:57:37 am
I agree with this post. Am just back after around 5 months not playing this game and mod....it doesn't feel the same...it doesn't flow as it did before...sad but true.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 22, 2011, 02:17:02 am
Agree with OP.

I remember a huge post called "cRPG lost its soul", that came shortly after the patch on the old forums. I said it then, and i say it now:
I love cRPG, and will keep playing it, respecting the rules and decisions of the mod "administration". But I used to have more fun pre-patch.

Predicting lots of comments like "dirty grinders", "crymore", "coolstorybro","quit, if you don't like it" and such, i would like to add - its my opinion. Please respect others right to "whine" :)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Seawied on April 22, 2011, 03:52:21 am
I agree. A lot of the time I feel like I'm just grinding with low cost equipment to wear  my top gear for a few minutes. The last major patch ironically solved grinding... by forcing everyone to grind.

The game plays more like native now. Most characters are very generic. I find that other people are posting my exact character builds, even though I've never posted my stats, and the game is in desperate need of some new vision.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Christo on April 22, 2011, 04:12:50 am
Totally agree with you.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Xant on April 22, 2011, 04:34:38 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Banok on April 22, 2011, 04:47:19 am
Sounds like you just play way too much tbh.

if you want to be constantly leveling, simply constantly reset your character. TA DA!

but you can't expect to play the game 15 hours a day for months solid and not get bored (31 in a week and a half?!)

its a great thing that people cant grind a massive lvl advantage over everyone else like they used to!

if grinding is all you like doing find another game, I recomend something korean.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kalam on April 22, 2011, 04:54:06 am
I think Strategus would solve everything, but that's me.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Lorenzo on April 22, 2011, 05:15:08 am
I agree with Kalam.

Im only playing since january but I am already getting bored of playing in the ''public'' servers. It's allright if you play with a team and do some coordination and stuff but it's only to get ready for strategus...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Wallace on April 22, 2011, 05:48:28 am
I understand that the way to make a game successful is to cater to the general populace... i don't think this is working on crpg due the the majority of inherent characteristic of elitism.. the game isn't about number crunching but rather player skill vs player skill which breeds elitism

Strategus will get a lot of ppl interested again, but as of now I have more fun in the duel server than I do in actual games
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Garrus on April 22, 2011, 05:53:51 am
I agree. A lot of the time I feel like I'm just grinding with low cost equipment to wear  my top gear for a few minutes. The last major patch ironically solved grinding... by forcing everyone to grind.

The game plays more like native now. Most characters are very generic. I find that other people are posting my exact character builds, even though I've never posted my stats, and the game is in desperate need of some new vision.

I wanted to tell you how I play (with prices, etc.) but I delete it, you wouldn't care about it.
Obviously, you like complaining.

I give an idea: forget Siege for some days, and play ONLY Battle instead.
Of course, you will have less playtime because you die early (I think I'm right, but with time you can play even more on Battle then Siege).
On the other hand, you will earn much more in long-term. So don't try it for 1-2 hours. Play Battle for 2-3 days or a week.

If you want to wear your Gothic Plate, dont start it when you have 10000 gold, it will just drain your gold.
Wear leather or mail, and collect 20-25000. Then pick up your plate, but for a reason.
Seriously, don't use it because it keeps you warm or it lookes shiny, or you will suck.
Face damage and don't hide behind Siege Shields whole round, but attack the enemy.
Don't focus on supporting others, but be the supported one.

About the plagiarized builds: There are logic builds, many ppl found or will find it, just like you.

Enter a clan or experiment with unique builds. Make a 3str-36agi with practice sword.

Try to forget about that green bar in the bottom-left corner :)
just play or not

EDIT: you really dont do a favor for anybody (neither for chadz, nor for us), if you play this game.
the game is to entertain you. if you play it twice a month, come on, do it.
and if developers see that playerbase dramatically decreases, then they will look for its cause.
I like this game while I can duel in it and I can get out any situations using skills, so it's not unfair.
I don't care if I'm thrown into face, I should have dodge, etc.
But if chadz implements fire blowing dragons which fly over me, and I cant reach 'em with my sword..
(deja vu: horsearchers :shock: )

EDIT2: like Native ? Native is much more Arcade.

EDIT3: I can play continously in my plate if I want, without much loss. Am I cool ?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tzar on April 22, 2011, 06:21:05 am
Plate is total shit is just a money drain that gives u nothing but a cool look and makes u slow as hell...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Garrus on April 22, 2011, 06:23:36 am
Plate is total shit is just a money drain that gives u nothing but a cool look and makes u slow as hell...

that is also an opinion

EDIT: reading OP haha :) i think im the only guy who is waving between 5000 and 30000 constantly

EDIT2: anyway Varyag, I agree with you in the manner, that the virtual maxlevel 30 narrows the level of players,
and you will also face guys who are slowly grinding somewhere close to 30.
Wasn't the problem that if I'm lvl52 and I play 24/7 then you, as a beginner will never catch me  ?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Garrus on April 22, 2011, 11:28:06 am
I miss that I can't choose among real possibilities, what to do when I reach lvl31.
I either retire or I play virtually forever the same build.
I don't know what will I do when everything is lordly and mw.

First I wanted to write this into my previous post but I think it worths to read, so:
 
I think you should have a choice whether to retire (upgrade+bonus+restart), or to continue.
(hero,ronin,master, etc. however you call, it's covers "continue").

It would work this way: If you retire, then the skills I will write about gonna be vanished.
Maybe it worths to run through some generations before passing through, to have a well upgraded gear
and a nice xp boost.

To master an expert skill you have to apply for it, and then grind some levels.
You can apply for an expert skill from the moment you reach level 31,
but while you are learning these skills, you won't gain neither attributepoints nor skillpoints.
This is to avoid überbuilds.
Above level 31 the xp boost wouldnt work anymore for higher generation player,
but every XP gap between levels would be something sane, like ~1-2million xp, with a slight increase.
 
You can enter an expert skills only once, so for example: not possible to have
two different Weapon Specialist II., one for bow and another for 2h, but you can
have I., II., or even III. for bow, if you want.
It is called specialism, because it bounds your character to a single weapon.

In my next example I would say you have 4 points to spend.
So possible builds would be:
- WeaponSpecialistI+StealthIII
- Healer+StealthIII
- LeaderI+StealthIII
- WeaponSpecialistIII+LeaderI
- etc..

My quick example ideas:

(click to show/hide)

as you can see, getting the very cool StealthIII lasts 12 levels, so it's not one day or two!

I have lot other ideas, but I'm not really sure that even a single soul thinks that it can be implemented :)
I just felt like to write about it a bit, maybe somebody reads it.

What I wrote here is only a basic concept, I know there are many factors, but it can be planned.
Important to notice that this ADDON will not "produce" supermen.
It just puts some color into the game. I think useless to put into suggestion's corner, they will say its unimplementable :) but would be fun.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Digglez on April 22, 2011, 11:35:23 am
I understand that the way to make a game successful is to cater to the general populace... i don't think this is working on crpg due the the majority of inherent characteristic of elitism.. the game isn't about number crunching but rather player skill vs player skill which breeds elitism

Strategus will get a lot of ppl interested again, but as of now I have more fun in the duel server than I do in actual games

Yes, a gameplay mode that requires an active clan....thats sure 'the general populace'.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Beauchamp on April 22, 2011, 11:37:24 am
i have opposite opinion, the game imo develops in a really good balanced way. exp system is the best i can imagine. i don't have to spend years to be succesfull, lvl up to 25 takes minimum effort. i like that.

imo your opinons are biased because you suffer from selective memory, just because you play this game for so long time (just recall any other game you've been playing for longer time than crpg, instead of ultima online i can't find any...). and maybe my opinion is also biased, because i usually play only if many fallens are online and it always feel like organized battles for us.

i don't care for strategus so much, but really a lot of other people do and they do a lot. i don't know why it can't stay online in the same way as it looked before (just only with the latest crpg patch we have). this is imo the worst decision chadz has made - i'm sure quite a lot of people have left the game because of that. and if it keeps going like that, the more will be leaving.

edit: hmm but there are A LOT of new clans with a lot of new players that have never seen strategus, so i might be wrong. but for sure not having strategus affected at least couple of guys from the old community.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on April 22, 2011, 11:47:43 am
i have opposite opinion, the game imo develops in a really good balanced way. exp system is the best i can imagine. i don't have to spend years to be succesfull, lvl up to 25 takes minimum effort. i like that.

imo your opinons are biased because you suffer from selective memory, just because you play this game for so long time

Amen. It's very true that cRPG was a hell of a lot of fun when it first came out... until it got broken. But it wasn't broken by patches, it was broken by players, and it really didn't take very long. All the subsequent patches have been attempts to adjust for the efforts of players to push the system to places it was never meant to go. There may have been some missteps along the way, and the magic of discovery from the first releases has worn off with time, but do you seriously think the game would seem anywhere near as appealing as it does now if none of those changes had been made? Take off your nostalgia goggles for a moment and really think about it.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Teeth on April 22, 2011, 11:50:31 am
Ok, enough about me, I shall get to the topic. What we now call the “early cRPG beta” (and what I consider the only true cRPG) attracted me in the first place with the idea that I could have a persistent character THAT IS CONSTANTLY IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING. I.e. every time you levelled up at that time, or bought new piece of equip, was like a holiday, a celebration if you wish. Huge amounts of joy, and I am very grateful to chadz for these moments! Levelling was very slow, items were very expensive, cRPG life was full of meaning.
For a player that entered near the beginning stages of the crpg beta, this might have been fun. I started playing Crpg in december I believe. By then this constant lvling made my low level character virtually chanceless against most other rididculous high level players. A big part of my gameplay experiences were hiding behind my shield or objects with the rest of my team and being run down by plated chargers. So for me this new system is more enjoyable, where I fight characters that are equal to mine and where skill is more important.

It takes me about two months to gain a generation, so if it takes you one and a half week you either play a lot now, or you have already played a lot in the past. You cant expect a simple game like this to stay entertaining and interesting for so several thousands of hours. I heard the patch isnt that far away, so maybe that will entertain you until Strategus comes back, which I think will add a lot to the current Crpg experience.

I agree that this system isnt going to be entertaining for ever. But the previous system favoured the 8 hours a day players too much. I think there should be more of a skill reward.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: [ptx] on April 22, 2011, 12:06:14 pm
AFAIK, you are not perma-banned. In fact, the banlist says you are scheduled to be unbanned today. Just saying.

Also, +1 to okiN, quite true. A lot of the fun characters and roleplay, that can be done now, would've been impossible, if c-rpg hadn't changed since earlier betas, because of broken, overpowered, overgrinded characters stomping everyone else. Sure, it had its moments, but, really...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 22, 2011, 12:10:37 pm
After the patch the game became much more friendly for new players, it introduced a smooth start, fast lvling and a nice money income. Imo the upkeep patch was the best thing that happend to Crpg. I thing you are being overnostalgic, i know i always do that :D

Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 22, 2011, 12:24:48 pm
I agree with the OP on allmost everything. The patch turned cRPG into a Native++ with just a few days of discovery, then blah, you have finished the game when you reach level 30. You can pretty much buy everything with very little effort, but upkeep will prevent you from using gear you deserved by obtaining the money needed. It's like, you buy something, but you can't use it. Heirlooming everything isn't fun, leveling over 31 isn't fun. It's just Native, with many more broken mechanics and pieces of equipment, and many more super-cheap ways of "fighting". Now noob ninjas are more common than medium armor users, isn't it a shame for both real ninjas and basic soldiers ?


A long story short, cRPG prepatch was interesting for all four types of players (link to the paper will follow). cRPG postpatch isn't anymore. It severely reduced the interest for acheivers and explorers, explained in details here : http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Although this is about old game, the theory about player motivations explained is still true.


By making the early game easy, the patch has increased motivation for some, but also dramatically decreased it for others.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Blondin on April 22, 2011, 12:28:21 pm
+1 for oKin

Grinders broked the mod...
Thanks to the dev team for patching cRPG in a non-elitist way but for the fun of everybody.

Ppl almost only think of their situation and own interest, the dev team showed us that they have a general view in the community and mod interest.

If the mod would have stay like prepatch i'm pretty sur that it will be dead already with only the same elite grinder players.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Varyag on April 22, 2011, 12:31:52 pm
Quote
I agree with the OP on allmost everything. The patch turned cRPG into a Native++ with just a few days of discovery, then blah, you have finished the game when you reach level 30. You can pretty much buy everything with very little effort, but upkeep will prevent you from using gear you deserved by obtaining the money needed. It's like, you buy something, but you can't use it. Heirlooming everything isn't fun, leveling over 31 isn't fun. It's just Native, with many more broken mechanics and pieces of equipment, and many more super-cheap ways of "fighting". Now noob ninjas are more common than medium armor users, isn't it a shame for both real ninjas and basic soldiers ?

Thats's what I feel


Quote
If the mod would have stay like prepatch i'm pretty sur that it will be dead already with only the same elite grinder players.

I have no wish to argue, and you are partly right, but for me this mod certainly lost the magic of improving and developing that cRPGs were always about. I mean, in early beta, when you bought a horse - it was such a joy! As for elitists, btw, at that time chadz said that horses should belong only to rich and experienced players (not exactly his words, but close), hence was the huge price and effort to buy one.

IMHO the easy availability of every piece of equip and fast levelling is what kills current cRPG.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: JOPOTINTTI on April 22, 2011, 12:36:05 pm
cRPG gone downdowndown , started from the patch that deleted horseback GLA's , Upkeep path was nuclear bomb , wich made the whole mod utter shite.
I agree with the OP on allmost everything. The patch turned cRPG into a Native++ with just a few days of discovery, then blah, you have finished the game when you reach level 30. You can pretty much buy everything with very little effort, but upkeep will prevent you from using gear you deserved by obtaining the money needed. It's like, you buy something, but you can't use it. Heirlooming everything isn't fun, leveling over 31 isn't fun. It's just Native, with many more broken mechanics and pieces of equipment, and many more super-cheap ways of "fighting". Now noob ninjas are more common than medium armor users, isn't it a shame for both real ninjas and basic soldiers ?


A long story short, cRPG prepatch was interesting for all four types of players (link to the paper will follow). cRPG postpatch isn't anymore. It severely reduced the interest for acheivers and explorers, explained in details here : http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Although this is about old game, the theory about player motivations explained is still true.


By making the early game easy, the patch has increased motivation for some, but also dramatically decreased it for others.
Also this.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Beauchamp on April 22, 2011, 12:36:44 pm
there is no game that will be good for everybody. luckily i prefer the idea where this game is developing now, unluckily you belong to the other half. if it were opposite, i'd be probably the one who would start this topic :o)

you could start a poll to see if people prefered crpg before upkeep/archery patch or afterwards or they are new guys that don't remember the old days.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Leesin on April 22, 2011, 12:51:13 pm
I played cRPG since the first ever public release too, but IMO this is the best the mod has ever been, it's got a fairer balance, grinding isn't anywhere near as bad as some patches, alot more variety in weapons and equipment used etc.

Upkeep makes it so we don't have a field full of tincans, which I enjoy, you can use alot of equipment and still afford upkeep, it's really not an issue unless all you want to do is run about in tincan spamming a hugely expensive weapon, which is why the upkeep was added in the first place, because back when everyone had plate armour and using the same weapons, the mod became boring as fuck. plus there are still plenty of guys who use plate armours.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on April 22, 2011, 12:55:45 pm
The level cap should be increased to 45. Exp requirements per level need to be ironed out so that it's a gradual experience amount required per level, instead of taking a day to get to level 20 and then a week to get to level 31.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 22, 2011, 01:01:23 pm
there is no game that will be good for everybody. luckily i prefer the idea where this game is developing now, unluckily you belong to the other half. if it were opposite, i'd be probably the one who would start this topic :o)

you could start a poll to see if people prefered crpg before upkeep/archery patch or afterwards or they are new guys that don't remember the old days.

I think many today's active players are very recent ones that's never played prepatch cRPG. Recent, fast-growing clans are plenty of these. This is a testimony of how many players left the game a short while after the last patch, because it became boring for them. A graph of the average active population would be even more expressive. You would have a slowly growing population prepatch, then a spike starting with the first big patch release, then when people start to be bored, crash. Today we are hitting ground levels in active population, without Strategus and without a long-lasting and acheivement-based gameplay. Many players come, level fast, hit 30 and quit, in lack of a proper goal to be set. Asking them for their opinion about the patch has little meaning.

The patch in general was extremely harsh for acheivers that lost nearly all the meaning, goals and acheivements they had. Varyag and Vicious posts are symptomatic of this. The 180° turn that was the patch was perceived as a treason for those types of players (please, don't be mad on me, I'm not turning you into a guinea pig, I'm just explaining things in an extremely elitist psychology style).
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on April 22, 2011, 01:13:03 pm
I think many today's active players are very recent ones that's never played prepatch cRPG. Recent, fast-growing clans are plenty of these. This is a testimony of how many players left the game a short while after the last patch, because it became boring for them.

Yeah? And how about all the people who quit prepatch for exactly that same reason?

A graph of the average active population would be even more expressive. You would have a slowly growing population prepatch

I wonder...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Babelfish on April 22, 2011, 01:15:04 pm
Ill always cherish the early days of cRPG, even if i got my ass handed to me. I knew even back then, that the magic would eventually loose its touch and the game would turn into routine. For us older players thats all cRPG is at the moment. I'm not denying that this version is by far superior when it comes to bugs & balance etc.. But i miss that close community we had back when it was only 1 server  :cry:

Early alphabeta-cRPG was better for me, because it was new and exciting with a decent community.


 

 
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Nemeth on April 22, 2011, 01:20:19 pm
I think many today's active players are very recent ones that's never played prepatch cRPG. Recent, fast-growing clans are plenty of these. This is a testimony of how many players left the game a short while after the last patch, because it became boring for them. A graph of the average active population would be even more expressive. You would have a slowly growing population prepatch, then a spike starting with the first big patch release, then when people start to be bored, crash. Today we are hitting ground levels in active population, without Strategus and without a long-lasting and acheivement-based gameplay. Many players come, level fast, hit 30 and quit, in lack of a proper goal to be set. Asking them for their opinion about the patch has little meaning.

The patch in general was extremely harsh for acheivers that lost nearly all the meaning, goals and acheivements they had. Varyag and Vicious posts are symptomatic of this. The 180° turn that was the patch was perceived as a treason for those types of players (please, don't be mad on me, I'm not turning you into a guinea pig, I'm just explaining things in an extremely elitist psychology style).

Would you like to share the data you are making your conclusion about the player count from? Because otherwise it's just a post of bullcrap. Also, I don't know what you mean by "ground levels in active population", when there is always at least 50+ people on EU1, quite a few people at siege as well even at 4 am (tested several times), and hunreds of active people during the day on EU only.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Espu on April 22, 2011, 01:24:49 pm
There are clearly two types of players around. Those who started during the very early phases of the mod and because of that had strong characters, or who just play a lot and were strong because of that. Then there are those who were just cannon-fodder for these higher level people.

I had a few characters close to lvl 40 before the upkeep/xp patch hit because I had played for a long time. Sure, it was kinda fun for me personally to be like a Legolas, destroying people who were 15 levels lower than me and had played way less. The problem is that it sure wasn't fun for the poor lvl 25's who were trying to play their way up but were just too far behind to realistically be able to catch up and thus would forever be doomed to be the "weaker nubs".

Currently the competetiveness-curve is a lot smoother. Hitting lvl 20 does not take too long and at that level you can fully participate in group fighting, as most people are within sensible level range. Heirlooms are pretty well balanced already so that they don't give too big benefits to ruin the balance.

In short, this debate is essentially between the hardcore and casual player types. The game has moved from early hardcore style towards more casual approach, which I find an excellent trend. Neither side is wrong though, it's just personal opinion of how they like their games to play out.


I don't know what will I do when everything is lordly and mw.

No game of this style can have infinite character progression. It just ruins the balance (without level/"toughness"-limited servers, but I don't think the player base is large enough for that).
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Punisher on April 22, 2011, 01:26:25 pm
I think quite the opposite, the upkeep patch improved the game a lot. I started to play cRPG short after the last wipe and quit 2 months before the upkeep patch because it got plain boring. I had full plate, masterwork weapon, level 39 build and nothing left to achieve. Actually the last month I played only Strategus as there was nothing else to do in cRPG and after Strategus turned into UIF vs the world it got boring too.

The upkeep patch brought me back, the multiplier system is a lot better than the old xp/gold radius system, there is a large variety of weapons and armors (before everybody would have reached plate+highest tier weapon at some point => tincan wars) and with the level cap at 30 (as most people retire immediately after they hit 31) makes the battlefield more balanced then ever (no more level 40+ people or gen20 with 400 wpf , etc). Also remeber the upkeep patch brought the banner balance, one of the best improvements in cRPG imo.

I don't see how the patch was harsh on achievers, they can still grind and retire as many times as they want. Probably a lot of people who where level 40 GTX since they now had to rely on their skill rather than stats/equipment.

If you watch the gameplay now, most people learned to block and feint, before the patch everyone was wildly spamming without bothering about anything else (including myself, 24/24 220 WPF build made me able to spam my poleaxe in full plate like crazy).

So, I am enjoying the current cRPG and looking forward to the next patch, DTV will certainly bring some fresh air and the slots/weapon changes should make the game more balanced then ever. And of course there is Strategus, if we ever get it back many of the old clans will return, a lot of people are now inactive waiting for it to come.

Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on April 22, 2011, 01:35:43 pm
There are clearly two types of players around. Those who started during the very early phases of the mod and because of that had strong characters, or who just play a lot and were strong because of that. Then there are those who were just cannon-fodder for these higher level people.

I had a few characters close to lvl 40 before the upkeep/xp patch hit because I had played for a long time. Sure, it was kinda fun for me personally to be like a Legolas, destroying people who were 15 levels lower than me and had played way less. The problem is that it sure wasn't fun for the poor lvl 25's who were trying to play their way up but were just too far behind to realistically be able to catch up and thus would forever be doomed to be the "weaker nubs".

Currently the competetiveness-curve is a lot smoother. Hitting lvl 20 does not take too long and at that level you can fully participate in group fighting, as most people are within sensible level range. Heirlooms are pretty well balanced already so that they don't give too big benefits to ruin the balance.

In short, this debate is essentially between the hardcore and casual player types. The game has moved from early hardcore style towards more casual approach, which I find an excellent trend. Neither side is wrong though, it's just personal opinion of how they like their games to play out.

You're forgetting the middle ground. I've played cRPG since the very start -- sometimes more, sometimes less, a couple longer breaks here and there. I've never been anywhere close to top-level, but I've never been cannon fodder, either, except at the start of a new char. No matter what stage the mod was at, I've almost always been somewhere near the top of the scoreboard, sometimes at the very top, because while I'm hardly the best player, I'm still pretty good, and I know how to play my strengths.

So I'm obviously not new, but I'm not a diehard. I'm not exactly a casual, but I'm definitely not a grinder, either. There's a whole lot of players like me out there, too, so where does this leave us? We don't enter into the equation? :P
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Ujin on April 22, 2011, 02:04:31 pm
I had a lvl 43 (or 44, don't remember exactly) character pre-patch , cav/infantry polearm with 21 str/26 agi. I had a max heirloomed german poleaxe which at that time had 96 speed +all the bonuses and damage it has nowadays. I had 201 wpp in polearms and could stunlock people and kill them in 1-2 shots, sometimes i couldn't even see my own swinging animations, that's how ridiculously fast i was.
Oh, and also on top of that i had maxed out riding/athletics/ some iron flesh and 7 power throw with, of course , the infamous throwing lances. My character could do nearly everything and compared to the average player's character it was simply x2-x5 times superior in stats.   

Now you tell me that was absolutely fine and didn't require any fixing at all.

All in all, +1 to Okin, imo the game is moving in the right direction, although i've got to admit i'm abit tired of waiting for the patch + Strategus.


P.S. now my character is lvl 33 hybrid 2h+polearm with decent riding+athletics, but nothing overpowered or unbalanced, i'm completely fine with it.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Beauchamp on April 22, 2011, 02:06:38 pm
i think number of players keeps continually growing, at least looking at clan forums and seeing all those rosters of 20+ makes me think that. in early stages there were mercs, templars, guards and a few randomers, but nobody else...

it would be good to have some official data about player count though...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kalam on April 22, 2011, 02:18:38 pm
i think number of players keeps continually growing, at least looking at clan forums and seeing all those rosters of 20+ makes me think that. in early stages there were mercs, templars, guards and a few randomers, but nobody else...

it would be good to have some official data about player count though...

I know I have more inactives every month, but it's true that there's always new blood to add to the numbers. It's the loss of veterans that is obviously more of a worry to some. An experienced cRPG player isn't made in a week, despite what those who insist that the dichotomy of talent and practice is chief in the making of a desirable player may say.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Babelfish on April 22, 2011, 02:26:26 pm
in early stages there were mercs, templars, guards and a few randomers, but nobody else...

huhmm, calling us randomers?  :rolleyes:

There were the order of the staffmasters, guards, ninja, order of the rose.. days if not weeks before mercs & templars :)
 Rosewood's guild had some insane people in it, like argento (aka ptah/ozwan) & ragni..They were the shit back then, not the mercs and certainly not the templars.
(Although the mercs did progress very fast, skill-wise.. Templars just had numbers on their side, besides daymun & tommy).
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: MrExxc on April 22, 2011, 02:28:12 pm
I joined cRPG a couple of days before the "patch", and one of the first things I saw was the immense gap between player levels and gear. Peasants were literally smashed by 2-3 plated chargers in every team, must have been fun times for those, yeah.
Another thing that I noticed too, was indeed, the happiness of owning your first decent piece of armor. We might have lost that feeling nowadays, but is it that bad? the rise of new clans might be a sign that cRPG has become a more team-based game. Prepatch, a lvl 40-45 could rape 20 peasants without the help of anyone. (I remember some of them, tincans and flamberge, deadly combo)

The game is growing in population, even without strategus being up, so of course the beta possy is no more, but I guess it's for the greater good.

Then again, like I said, I didn't really knew the beta and prepatch period very well...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Beauchamp on April 22, 2011, 02:31:55 pm
huhmm, calling us randomers?  :rolleyes:

There were the order of the staffmasters, guards, ninja, order of the rose.. days if not weeks before mercs & templars :)
 Rosewood's guild had some insane people in it, like argento (aka ptah/ozwan) & ragni..They were the shit back then, not the mercs and certainly not the templars.
(Although the mercs did progress very fast, skill-wise.. Templars just had numbers on their side, besides daymun & tommy).

and roses and ninjas that i forgot (but roses never had really more than 10 active players at the same time)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Espu on April 22, 2011, 02:41:51 pm
We've had ~2800 unique player keys active daily for quite a while. There was a slight bump during new year, but generally the trend is very stable. Also 100+ new keys register daily. Obviously most of these have to stop playing pretty much immediately or we'd have over 9000 players.

So no, I don't think cRPG is dying.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on April 22, 2011, 02:46:12 pm
So do you have any earlier figures to track trends in user numbers? When was the high point, and what was it?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Ginosaji on April 22, 2011, 02:50:51 pm
I started with cRPG some weeks before the last wipe and I was so glad about that wipe :D
We were all peasants again and I could actually do something! Before that wipe I had to stand somewhere because as soon as I moved out of my cover I was dead.
After a few days playing and having fun with low gear I had to quit playing for about a weekend. When I came back it was like before that wipe: Many ppl. with levels above 30 and I had only peasant gear. I don't have the time to play every day and several hours a session, on top of that I'm no very good player anyway. I'm glad if I can block a few swings and kill someone.
So for me the patch made this mod really enjoyable at all.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on April 22, 2011, 02:58:04 pm
Yep. The wipes were nice, but the effects were always all too short-lived. I think we could really do with one more full wipe, to remove all the problems that still exist because of flaws in earlier builds that have since been fixed. Maybe some of the worst grinders would GTX, but honestly, I can't say I'd miss them any. I have no respect for people who are more attached to their level or gen count than to the game. :P
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kalam on April 22, 2011, 03:06:51 pm
Yep. The wipes were nice, but the effects were always all too short-lived. I think we could really do with one more full wipe, to remove all the problems that still exist because of flaws in earlier builds that have since been fixed. Maybe some of the worst grinders would GTX, but honestly, I can't say I'd miss them any. I have no respect for people who are more attached to their level or gen count than to the game. :P

In my personal experience it's usually the casuals that play only once in awhile on weekends who quit when that happens. I mean, let's face it, the grinders will always grind. It's those who hate the grind who leave.

I mean, picture this. Over two months, you finally get to level 30 and can be competitive with everyone else. You don't intend to retire because you don't have the time, and then the devs go and delete all that hard work. If you truly hate the grind, are you really going to come back to grind some more?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Punisher on April 22, 2011, 03:08:57 pm
Yep. The wipes were nice, but the effects were always all too short-lived. I think we could really do with one more full wipe, to remove all the problems that still exist because of flaws in earlier builds that have since been fixed. Maybe some of the worst grinders would GTX, but honestly, I can't say I'd miss them any. I have no respect for people who are more attached to their level or gen count than to the game. :P

I think the upkeep system and the removal of gen WPF bonus solved the need of a wipe, all we need now is a set max number of heirlooms and everthing/everyone will be balanced. Mad grinders will still have 50 masterworks, giving them lots of choices and flexibility but they will only be able to use the same number of heirloomed items simultaneously as the average player (I would suggest 2-3 heirloomed items).
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Hirlok on April 22, 2011, 03:10:38 pm
Relatively new player here - never played pre-patch, discovered Warband early this year and c-rpg shortly after, since the native multiplayer missed rpg elements. Have been playing a lot since (I have the freedom to dedicate a few weeks to playing an incredibly important computer game... ;-) ) - and enjoy it.

I suck and have low "skill" (i.e. slow pc, framerate often under 20, crappy internet with 250 ping on average), but Hirlok is having fun, a lot, and sometimes even doing resonably well.

An elitist 300 "pro"-gamer community ("This is SPARTA - n00bs get the fuck out... ") would only have triggered my middle finger reflex and I would have quit after a few hours.

However I do understand and share 2 aspects of the OP:

- community. There are a few people you see everyday, and some of them are great teamplayers, have style, are funny, relaxed and friendly. Some are assholes - in a stylish and obviously role-playing way, which is funny as well. And there are a lot of real, stupid, primitive idiots around - which at some times can be annoying, on those days where the whole siege server is only one griefing, teamkilling, teamwounding, headless-chicken-running-around mess - I just get out. Just natural: a bigger player base mirrors the real world. Nuff said. Sometimes you wish for a smaller, more mature mankind, sometimes you wish for a smaller, more close c-rpg community - both probably won't happen...

- more rpg elements. We will see how much of that Strategus will bring or not - but personally I share the wish of the OP to have more possibilities to make your char unique and keep it developing, maybe including "non-aggressive" skills like charisma and intelligence or even the classic rpg skills like being woodwise etc.. But frankly I have the feeling that we do not wish for a slightly changed mod, but for a game that so far does not exist... a cross-breed of Drakensang and M&B, which I would very much like to see and will patiently await over the next decades... lol

Executive summary: yeah, there are a few things that could be improved (very much agree with a max number of heirloomes - e.g. 3 masterworks max), and the ole times are always better in some way, but overall I think c-rpg is one of the best things in the gaming world and on the right path. Keep going, folks!
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on April 22, 2011, 03:12:58 pm
In my personal experience it's usually the casuals that play only once in awhile on weekends who quit when that happens. I mean, let's face it, the grinders will always grind. It's those who hate the grind who leave.

I mean, picture this. Over two months, you finally get to level 30 and can be competitive with everyone else. You don't intend to retire because you don't have the time, and then the devs go and delete all that hard work. If you truly hate the grind, are you really going to come back to grind some more?

Eh, under the new system I really don't think it's such a big deal. Getting to level 20 takes a couple of nights, and from there you can play just fine. Level 30 might take you a week, two weeks, even a month, but it's not like you need to get there to start having fun. It's only when you have to play that same amount of time to get to level 31 and retire that the tedious grind really kicks in.

The ones I always see protesting most loudly against wipes and threatening GTXs are multiple retirees, who insist that they've earned whatever it is they have and think their (frequently absurd) time investment should be protected forever.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kalam on April 22, 2011, 03:14:53 pm
Eh, under the new system I really don't think it's such a big deal. Getting to level 20 takes a couple of nights, and from there you can play just fine. Level 30 might take you a week, two weeks, even a month, but it's not like you need to get there to start having fun. It's only when you have to play that same amount of time to get to level 31 and retire that the tedious grind really kicks in.

The ones I always see protesting most loudly against wipes and threatening GTXs are multiple retirees, who insist that they've earned whatever it is they have and think their (frequently absurd) time investment should be protected forever.

I'm just sharing my experiences of the people I hear on vent every day.

Here's how it goes:

the grinders make the biggest noise, and then usually end up staying.

the casuals just disappear.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Varyag on April 22, 2011, 03:17:03 pm
Quote
I had a lvl 43 (or 44, don't remember exactly) character pre-patch , cav/infantry polearm with 21 str/26 agi. I had a max heirloomed german poleaxe which at that time had 96 speed +all the bonuses and damage it has nowadays. I had 201 wpp in polearms and could stunlock people and kill them in 1-2 shots, sometimes i couldn't even see my own swinging animations, that's how ridiculously fast i was.
Oh, and also on top of that i had maxed out riding/athletics/ some iron flesh and 7 power throw with, of course , the infamous throwing lances. My character could do nearly everything and compared to the average player's character it was simply x2-x5 times superior in stats.   

Now you tell me that was absolutely fine and didn't require any fixing at all.


Sorry mate, but I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to the first beta of cRPG. I don't know how long you've been here, but in the first beta it took several months to be lvl 30, and only 1 man reached lvl 31 (Oberyn).  Everything was slow and very expensive, so you certainly had some goals to achieve. I was talking about that experience. It's a pity that most of you did not experience it, since you came after several patches.

If you'd like to know my IMHO on how to bri9ng it back, here it is:

Stick with current upkeep system, it's good, stick with current item balance and team banner balance,
BUT MAKE PROGRESS REALLY SLOW AND EXPENSIVE. So that every time you lvl up or buy something new (and expensive) it would feels like a christmas gift to you when you were 12 y.o.

See what I mean? Bring back the true progress feature into cRPG.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on April 22, 2011, 03:21:46 pm
I'm just sharing my experiences of the people I hear on vent every day.

Here's how it goes:

the grinders make the biggest noise, and then usually end up staying.

the casuals just disappear.

That may have been the case back in the day, when getting to level 25 took some real effort in itself, and even after a wipe there would always be guys on level 40 by the time you got there. If there was a wipe right now, though, I think things might go differently.

I think the upkeep system and the removal of gen WPF bonus solved the need of a wipe, all we need now is a set max number of heirlooms and everthing/everyone will be balanced. Mad grinders will still have 50 masterworks, giving them lots of choices and flexibility but they will only be able to use the same number of heirloomed items simultaneously as the average player (I would suggest 2-3 heirloomed items).

I dunno, I think it'd be nice to see a level playing field again. So many people have huge stacks of heirlooms and ridiculous XP bonuses gained from essentially breaking the retirement system. After the initial, admittedly large, time investment, the payouts and retirement speeds become absurd.

Stick with current upkeep system, it's good, stick with current item balance and team banner balance,
BUT MAKE PROGRESS REALLY SLOW AND EXPENSIVE. So that every time you lvl up or buy something new (and expensive) it would feels like a christmas gift to you when you were 12 y.o.

See what I mean? Bring back the true progress feature into cRPG.

That's all very well to say, but it's exactly this kind of thing that made the mod so daunting for all the casual players back in the day, not to mention new people joining after a while. It's nice to talk about a "kid at Christmas" experience, but like Vargas mentioned it's no secret that for a lot of people it was more like being a skinny nerd surrounded by playground bullies.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Christo on April 22, 2011, 03:24:59 pm
Stick with current upkeep system, it's good, stick with current item balance and team banner balance,
BUT MAKE PROGRESS REALLY SLOW AND EXPENSIVE. So that every time you lvl up or buy something new (and expensive) it would feels like a christmas gift to you when you were 12 y.o.

See what I mean? Bring back the true progress feature into cRPG.

Haha, you just said things I couldn't express with words, because I don't know how.

+∞ To you for this.

Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Varyag on April 22, 2011, 03:31:19 pm
Quote
That's all very well to say, but it's exactly this kind of thing that made the mod so daunting for all the casual players back in the day, not to mention new people joining after a while. It's nice to talk about a "kid at Christmas" experience, but like Vargas mentioned it's no secret that for a lot of people it was more like being a skinny nerd surrounded by playground bullies.

Well, maybe so, but this is what all cRPGs are about. You start weak, and gradualy grow. You don't grow to max lvl in 2 days (it literally takes me 10 hours to get to lvl 25 nowadays, and this is the level where I start biting hard).
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Beauchamp on April 22, 2011, 03:31:43 pm
I'm just sharing my experiences of the people I hear on vent every day.

Here's how it goes:

the grinders make the biggest noise, and then usually end up staying.

the casuals just disappear.

aye this has some point in it. still its not unsolvable issue (like reset everyone equally to lvl 25, or something similar. btw i'm not even sure we need a full wipe, the only problem are stacked generations and extensive number of looms, other than that everything is fine imo...)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Dexxtaa on April 22, 2011, 03:44:15 pm
Ok, enough about me, I shall get to the topic. What we now call the “early cRPG beta” (and what I consider the only true cRPG) attracted me in the first place with the idea that I could have a persistent character THAT IS CONSTANTLY IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING. I.e. every time you levelled up at that time, or bought new piece of equip, was like a holiday, a celebration if you wish. Huge amounts of joy, and I am very grateful to chadz for these moments! Levelling was very slow, items were very expensive, cRPG life was full of meaning.

Sniff. Took the words right out of my mouth, and the tears out of my eyes.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on April 22, 2011, 03:47:51 pm

Sorry mate, but I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to the first beta of cRPG. I don't know how long you've been here, but in the first beta it took several months to be lvl 30, and only 1 man reached lvl 31 (Oberyn).  Everything was slow and very expensive, so you certainly had some goals to achieve. I was talking about that experience. It's a pity that most of you did not experience it, since you came after several patches.

If you'd like to know my IMHO on how to bri9ng it back, here it is:

Stick with current upkeep system, it's good, stick with current item balance and team banner balance,
BUT MAKE PROGRESS REALLY SLOW AND EXPENSIVE. So that every time you lvl up or buy something new (and expensive) it would feels like a christmas gift to you when you were 12 y.o.

See what I mean? Bring back the true progress feature into cRPG.

increase prices by 100 and decrease upkeep by 100 would make items hard to buy and they would stay at the same lvl of upkeep, thats what your talking about ?

Anyways, ive started before patch, after i got some items yeah it felt nice to finally be able to use them but that last only for a little while like half an hour ? Its a MMO mentality that you play to get something once you get it you find another target you want to get, and if you cant find anything you want you loose interest in the game... Now i dont think cRPG is meant to be this way, its there for you so you can create your character, with what ever mix of weapons/armors you want to use and enjoy the game for what it is, be it headshotting people with bow, stabbing with 2hander, lancing as a cav. If the only thing that keeps you playing is pursuit for better gear, the harder the better, i think you are losing your time.

p.s. english isnt my first language but Varyag IMHO = in my humble opinion, so "my IMHO" sounds kind of weird ;p just a friendly advice
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 22, 2011, 03:56:34 pm
Many people talking about "the old days" seem to forgot the playerbase was massively composed of decent players with decent levels, decent equipment, that could perfectly well kill "tincans", with a little luck and skill. It wasn't some sort of "organised peasant murder" like you are describing it. Lvl 40 gen 20 people that could use armors and still be super fast were broken, but extremely rare. This issue got fixed by the removal of retirement wpf bonus (upkeep has nothing to do with that). The rest of the chars were mainly around level 30 and above, with a reasonable ratio being peasants. "Grinding" to decent levels was fast anyways. And I recall finding the peasant stage interesting and rewarding, a simple kill as a peasant could make your day. You had to be a little patient, now the grind from 1 to 20 is just a joke, by level 20 no newcomer has learned anything about cRPG. You don't have that "cosy community" feeling anymore, anyone can enter without even being noticed.

There was also much less rage, because winning or loosing didn't really matter. The supposed "huge gap" between high and low levels was way less important for grinding than now, people laughed at autololbalance because everyone wanted to have fun, grinding just needed you to play, not to be so concerned about victory. Duels at round's end were way more frequent, it was way less serious. In a sense, the prepatch game was not so much grindy, not because grinding changed your char less, but because it was way less invasive. The current eagerness of winning rounds just shows that the community is still all about grinding, but in a more serious and competitive way.

Sure, I also like this competitive game, but some other more relaxing options LIKE ENABLING REWARDS FOR DUELS AGAIN *hint* *hint*... would be appreciated.

Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Astinus on April 22, 2011, 03:59:14 pm
I see only hardcore grinders posting here, I think that the current system is good, apart from the heirlooms spam.

I want to plya crpg without having to threat it like a job, forcing me to over retiring or to play at least 3 hours per day to have the a chance to equal fight my opponents. I was there since first day of the mod, and yeah there was a good golden age where everything was so damn hard to gain but back then there were always people that stayed way beyond the average in stats term of a normal player and this kills any will to a relaxing play of crpg
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Banok on April 22, 2011, 04:08:32 pm
I'm gona put this simply.

OP mindset is that cRPG = native + GRIND

for me cRPG = native + character customisation

grind is just a poor substitute for content, strategus = content.

@below, yeah nothing wrong with grind mindset I just think chadz is not trying to make a grinder game, crpg was never intended to be one, he kinda said this already.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 22, 2011, 04:20:17 pm
I'm gona put this simply.

OP mindset is that cRPG = native + GRIND

for me cRPG = native + character customisation

grind is just a poor substitute for content, strategus = content.

Everyone tries to seek it's own satisfaction form out of the game. Acheivers will set goals and try to reach them. If it's not possible, they will try to invent strange goals until they definitely quit. It may not be what you think a game is, you may argue it's like working. It's just that different people have different expectations, and I think they should all be respected.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on April 22, 2011, 04:23:40 pm
It's just that different people have different expectations, and I think they should all be respected.

Except, you know, the ones who don't like what you like, or like what you don't like. Evidently they don't count for much. :P
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Banok on April 22, 2011, 04:30:01 pm
Yep. The wipes were nice, but the effects were always all too short-lived. I think we could really do with one more full wipe, to remove all the problems that still exist because of flaws in earlier builds that have since been fixed. Maybe some of the worst grinders would GTX, but honestly, I can't say I'd miss them any. I have no respect for people who are more attached to their level or gen count than to the game. :P

yeah I always really enjoyed the wipes. largely because back then the game was such an uneven playing field that after a wipe it was fun just being able to play in a even playing field. guys like argento who I couldn't kill before were suddenly incredibly easy to kill without thier level advantage, plate etc.

I'd love to see a wipe now, the bonus exp for generations should be removed though otherwise things will just go back to how they are.
I think the upkeep system and the removal of gen WPF bonus solved the need of a wipe, all we need now is a set max number of heirlooms and everthing/everyone will be balanced. Mad grinders will still have 50 masterworks, giving them lots of choices and flexibility but they will only be able to use the same number of heirloomed items simultaneously as the average player (I would suggest 2-3 heirloomed items).

Solid suggestion +1
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Baron_Settmour on April 22, 2011, 04:35:37 pm
For the OP:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Peasant_Woman on April 22, 2011, 04:40:40 pm
It is my experiance that after the last wipe lots of players just left with no noise. Yes there was some crying on the forums from the hardcore grinders who ultimately just bit the bullet and levelled again, some players (myself included) decided to take a month or two break but eventually came back, but a lot of people just saw all they had earned disappear one day and thought 'Not doing that again.' (one of my RL friends included, he heard about the reset and stopped playing that same day and hasn't played since) because cRPG is supposed to be a persistent environment where a player can build any character they want, it is a logical fallacy that a casual player could log in one day and all his effort is gone because the devs thought it was time for a reset.

Having said that I would be willing to have another full wipe, but many others just won't keep doing this reset after reset.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Camaris on April 22, 2011, 04:51:29 pm
Tbh its a beta. In Betas some things dont work like the dev want them too.
People tend to use those game design errors so there is a need to wipe if the dev thinks this is not like intended.

That doesnt mean a wipe is needed because you came to this game 2 weeks ago and everyone has more heirlooms then you do.
If chadz thinks that heirlooms are breaking the game he should do something.

But i guess everybody agrees that lvl45 and all slots heirloomed is a big difference.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Olwen on April 22, 2011, 05:09:05 pm
Quote from: Olwen
this crpg has nothing to do with the one we played before and during strategus, it's pointless, i probably won't be back on crpg before i see some good patch or strategus back, it's just a hate and bundle of sticksery contest, and i'm being bored of it
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Jacko on April 22, 2011, 05:10:34 pm
Yeah...

The game right now is in it's best iteration. Old cRPG was not better, simply less explored. I don't see how anyone [SANE] can argue differently. The cRPG we got now is much more polished and overall caters to a broader audience, casual and hardcore alike. A fps where grind = skill, is just not fun (sure, you could argue the rpg aspect, but really, at it's core cRPG is native multi player with customizable characters and weapons). 

Edit:

I wouldn't mind a wipe, but as several people have pointed out, the grinders will grind and it will hit the casuals the hardest.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Varyag on April 22, 2011, 05:50:24 pm
Quote
this crpg has nothing to do with the one we played before and during strategus, it's pointless, i probably won't be back on crpg before i see some good patch or strategus back, it's just a hate and bundle of sticksery contest, and i'm being bored of it

Perhaps this is too extreme, but the point is valid. In terms of cRPG future, my only hope is the new Strategus, if it ever comes public.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 22, 2011, 06:26:57 pm
chadz is taking classes, so I woul presume that a strategus release would come during one of his breaks.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Belatu on April 22, 2011, 06:47:32 pm
I havent read the op but seems a cryfortheoldtimespost and I disagree.

-1


Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Vicious666 on April 22, 2011, 07:37:57 pm
funny how ppl realized   what i say   on christmas when i saw "this crpg"    only 5 months later.

better later than never
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Babelfish on April 22, 2011, 08:01:12 pm
funny how ppl realized   what i say   on christmas when i saw "this crpg"    only 5 months later.

better later than never


Btw it was me that gave you that last vote, getting you muted <3
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Keshian on April 22, 2011, 08:27:09 pm
Overall the patch was an improvement, in fact at this point any further work is an improvement, aprt of the problem is thats everal months have passed without any even tiny patch and so you see a lot of the imbalances become excacerbated like half of people on servers being hybrid or pure thrower, polearm stun spammers multiplying, or at least 30 gen 25+ I can name off the top of my head (probably a lot more that I don't know about).

Needless to say some tweaking support patches every few weeks that require minimal programming would have made this feel less of a grind for people waiting for strategus as it would be a continually new game, next patch with 2 weapons slots for gigantic weapons is a great idea, cudos to cmpx for taking the time to code it.  (To give you an idea the persistent world mod gets patches on average about 1 every 1-2 weeks with a smaller community using it).

-Remove polearm stun except for stabs with polearms (polarm lock abuse rampant now with whole builds dedicated to it)
-Make weapons take up 2 slots to rebalance hybrids (already being done)
-Remove retirement xp bonus but return to how it was immediately after first major patch where it was 1500 xp/x1 base with a kill radius like pre-patch worked in for bonus xp (that actually made fights feel so much more dynamic as it added a new challenge to strategy, right now every fight is starting to feel a little too familiar like deja vu).
-Just set maximum effective wpf at 180 or 200 (was 700 pre-patch) and allow a reasonable wpf cost.  (This cap might also allow levelling up to 35-38 without warping the system and increase build diversity).

These are just suggestions, but pretty much anything at this point would be great, just come out with a patch.

But i have to follow this up with a thank you as you could very well have abandoned the project all together, so thank you for working on it.  Just explaining why there might be some frustration.  Overall still a work in progress that just feels like the progress is stalled because we get so little news of any sort of progress on the big patch.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on April 22, 2011, 08:43:11 pm
Overall the patch was an improvement, in fact at this point any further work is an improvement, aprt of the problem is thats everal months have passed without any even tiny patch and so you see a lot of the imbalances become excacerbated like half of people on servers being hybrid or pure thrower, polearm stun spammers multiplying, or at least 30 gen 25+ I can name off the top of my head (probably a lot more that I don't know about).

Needless to say some tweaking support patches every few weeks that require minimal programming would have made this feel less of a grind for people waiting for strategus as it would be a continually new game, next patch with 2 weapons slots for gigantic weapons is a great idea, cudos to cmpx for taking the time to code it.  (To give you an idea the persistent world mod gets patches on average about 1 every 1-2 weeks with a smaller community using it).

-Remove polearm stun except for stabs with polearms (polarm lock abuse rampant now with whole builds dedicated to it)
-Make weapons take up 2 slots to rebalance hybrids (already being done)
-Remove retirement xp bonus but return to how it was immediately after first major patch where it was 1500 xp/x1 base with a kill radius like pre-patch worked in for bonus xp (that actually made fights feel so much more dynamic as it added a new challenge to strategy, right now every fight is starting to feel a little too familiar like deja vu).
-Just set maximum effective wpf at 180 or 200 (was 700 pre-patch) and allow a reasonable wpf cost.  (This cap might also allow levelling up to 35-38 without warping the system and increase build diversity).

These are just suggestions, but pretty much anything at this point would be great, just come out with a patch.

But i have to follow this up with a thank you as you could very well have abandoned the project all together, so thank you for working on it.  Just explaining why there might be some frustration.  Overall still a work in progress that just feels like the progress is stalled because we get so little news of any sort of progress on the big patch.

Remove polearm stun, the only thing that allows it to complete with good pure 2h chars? 2h swords especially.

I believe 2h swords especially bigger ones need significant speed reductions but I don't see anyone else saying the same, so it's ok to call every weapon other than 2h swords OP, even though they do more damage are faster than and have quicker block ability than all decent polearms.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: RandomDude on April 22, 2011, 08:45:56 pm
How can you say "Crpg used to be better?"

Earning gold/xp for only your kills?

Playing as a noob and level 1 farmer? Good luck getting anywhere any time soon. If you were even able to survive and get into a position to damage someone, a team mate would 1-hit them and you'd be left with nothing.

I miss wearing full plate and running around like a maniac but you have to think of the guys that dont play that much too.

With the newest patch I think I will be running around in medium armour and just a flamberge, no shield, which means I will have to go back to my older playstyle of "i dont need no stinking shield" thinking that my armour will protect me, only it wont because I wont have as much.

Is that good for me? No but i dont think it's game breaking at all and it might mean that some rounds I dont use a flamberge but maybe a Sword of War + shield.

I like to see the mod continually improve and I'm a pretty adaptable guy so I dont miss the old days so much.

For those awaiting strategus: Hahaha if you'd fought in some of our battles you might not be relishing it so much.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Wallace on April 22, 2011, 09:06:42 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this
strategus = content.

Also the WPF stacking wipe i think was in order.. like let's be real even though it would cost 100k gold to do it, gen 20 would yield 100% retained wpf and thereafter actually overcapping. So that got a little out of control.
People QQ about how they were peasants and you had lvl 40 knights running around, but let's face it that's what a pvp rpg is about. Working your way up and improving a character rather than capping out and saying "well I'm lvl 31, I can either get to lvl 32 or I can get to lvl 31 again" and of course retirement is what you are going to do
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Nasturtium on April 22, 2011, 09:44:41 pm
As more casual players lose interest and move on, us grognards are left fighting the same folks over and over again on low pop servers.

  What i miss, and what has me a little down, is the epic battle feeling, now we have fewer players spread out farther on maps, taking pot shots at eachother.

  I think all of my gloom and misery at the state of things would be cured by just a simple honest dev log, even if it was just:

"was going to work on wall crumbling models fr strat today, but went out for drinks instead"

  That would at least make me feel like the devs even care what players think of their game.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gnjus on April 22, 2011, 10:16:00 pm
That would at least make me feel like the devs even care what players think of their game.

Why would they care ? They gave us almost a year of great fun for free and we (the community) have abused it in every way possible, from minor glitching over bug abusing instead of reporting it all the way to direct cheating, and all they got back from us was like 5% of ass kissing and 95% of whining, crying, slacking, etc. If i was a developer i couldn't care less.  :wink:

You've had your fair share of fun, who else in your life gave you so much of it for free ? You don't like it anymore ? Fine, pack your things and hit the road, Jack.  :wink:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: EponiCo on April 22, 2011, 10:47:25 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this
Also the WPF stacking wipe i think was in order.. like let's be real even though it would cost 100k gold to do it, gen 20 would yield 100% retained wpf and thereafter actually overcapping. So that got a little out of control.
People QQ about how they were peasants and you had lvl 40 knights running around, but let's face it that's what a pvp rpg is about. Working your way up and improving a character rather than capping out and saying "well I'm lvl 31, I can either get to lvl 32 or I can get to lvl 31 again" and of course retirement is what you are going to do

Well, many folks were at the I have everything I need stage, and either just grinding out the next gen or the next level (which took just as long as now, was just way higher), so how has it changed for those?
Anyway, for those that are missing the leveling up, there would be a simply fix. Include a checkbox "hard mode" on charpage, where every level takes 10* as much xp and every item is 20* more expensive but upkeep stays the same, so you can really celebrate every new item you can afford.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Nasturtium on April 22, 2011, 11:21:03 pm
Why would they care ? They gave us almost a year of great fun for free and we (the community) have abused it in every way possible, from minor glitching over bug abusing instead of reporting it all the way to direct cheating, and all they got back from us was like 5% of ass kissing and 95% of whining, crying, slacking, etc. If i was a developer i couldn't care less.  :wink:

You've had your fair share of fun, who else in your life gave you so much of it for free ? You don't like it anymore ? Fine, pack your things and hit the road, Jack.  :wink:

 Speak for yourself buddy, I have volunteered countless hours of my own time to try and improve this game. If you want to lump all players into "ungrateful whiners" category, then you are only demonstrating your own ignorance. There is nothing wrong with voicing your concerns about the state of a game you love, furthermore I thought the OP had some great points and voiced them in a respectful and non condescending way. Thanks for the snarky conceited reply to a respectful and honest post.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gnjus on April 23, 2011, 08:56:54 am
Thanks for the snarky conceited reply to a respectful and honest post.

Anytime, matey.  :wink:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Karmazyn on April 23, 2011, 11:25:27 am
Many bugs in items and in the grind system + idiotic moderator + nobody want share with crpg new items + no idea/concept behind this mod (what are you grind for?).
Still many players play this mod but the big russian player base can quick move to mercenaries mod if the developer there decide to change the character instant reset system and maybe make a strategic map for factions (like strategus).
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 23, 2011, 11:37:47 am
char development is gone with the december patch... i made the "scary morningstar + PS12 + wpf stacking project" and i did finish it just in time to see it removed. now the game is the same grinding as before to have heirlooms. after a lot of childish retards flooded the forum with tears, chadz got rid of those UNBEATABLE "morningstar builds", the too strong archers, and introduced upkeep system.

i came playing some matches and to see what crpg became... well its like before... same grinding for heirlooms but with WAY lesser character customization.

i'll finish it later... my daughter calls me :-|
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Duerkos on April 23, 2011, 12:09:56 pm
Most of your complains would be the same if CRPG was still in "very early beta state". You have levelled too much. For people who loves grinding and customization, you can't really do anything about it. If there is no level cap, the game would be unbalanced. In Crpg, we have this strange "Soft cap", so you can try to level up to 35 or even more if you want. But as I always say when people complain about this kind of thing, if you don't like to play the game without levelling, don't play it.

If this was another type of game, I would suggest to chose another fighting style and level up that, but you are like a man in a MMORPG with chars of all classes levelled up and with all the equipment. The only reason to continue playing is enjoying the killing and smashing.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 23, 2011, 12:22:17 pm
Most of your complains would be the same if CRPG was still in "very early beta state". You have levelled too much. For people who loves grinding and customization, you can't really do anything about it. If there is no level cap, the game would be unbalanced. In Crpg, we have this strange "Soft cap", so you can try to level up to 35 or even more if you want. But as I always say when people complain about this kind of thing, if you don't like to play the game without levelling, don't play it.

If this was another type of game, I would suggest to chose another fighting style and level up that, but you are like a man in a MMORPG with chars of all classes levelled up and with all the equipment. The only reason to continue playing is enjoying the killing and smashing.

that's why in all the games there is a maxlevel. but here we have a maxlevel just at 3/4 of the ideal maxlevel. we have a slow gameplay and weak damage. before the big patch i was doing the antitank role fine. 45 pierce morningstar with 12PS and 200wpf, was quite a tank steamroller.

and yes. you build with patience a char and when you end your project you enjoy the:

- public servers fun (yes i have fun there)
- clanwars fun (indeed more funny than public)
- strat battles (again.. the best)
- funny events (funny events....)

what's wrong about it?

and the point is: i had a lot of time to build my chars. Corrado_Decimo the morningstar crusher, Sniper_IV the PD8 224 archery archer, Bodyguard with 8 shield 8WM 7PS and riding...

now i just log... my chars had something like 120million XP together (decimo 44mil, sniper 48mil... etc) and now i have the XP cut to near 1/15... on decimo i was 10gen.. now i have to choose 3 heirlooms lol.. i had a +2 morningstar, +3 gauntlets, +3 body armor, +1 cookies sword, +1 katana.

Concluding, the old players got a big kick in the ass... who continued to play and retire now have a full set of everything along with a 25-30 gen multiplier.

IF this is the way chadz intended to put an end to the long grind, well IMO he failed.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gatsby on April 23, 2011, 12:31:36 pm
Old crpg was all about grinding wpf to spam as hell. Now we have a balance in that. Now ppl grind for heirlooms, but a weapon is not powerfull enough if u have no skill, 30 levels more than your opponent are.
In fact Lvl cap is good for casual players, coz a lv 50char is really too much for everyone.
Even in the old crpg u could be a milionare and buy everything, not a great difference now. Honestly the upkeep system should make u happy, coz should erode your money. Unfortunately is not well implemented, coz ppl just go around naked suffering no penalty and reciving xp/gold anyway.

I agree in the tk penality, really too much tks out there, but also lot of ppl love to steal a kill jumping into swing.

Also the xp/gold system puzzle me a lot: the moltiplicator is good, but why i do not gain extra with a good k/d and maybe suffer a loss with bad k/d. With the current system i have no incentive in wearing good armors or other stuff, coz k/d ratio is useless.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Prpavi on April 23, 2011, 12:42:08 pm
this
(click to show/hide)
is the current state of cRPG
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 23, 2011, 01:16:50 pm
this
(click to show/hide)
is the current state of cRPG

well i had some battles and sieges.. 40% of the players go throwing, 30% go 2h/polearm and backup xbow, 15% go xbow hybrid, 15% go 1h/shield
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Yugop on April 23, 2011, 01:18:10 pm
That's irrelevant, Prpavi, it was always like that since people figured out crossbows didn't need wp to be effective. Given the opportunity, most players don't hesitate to take a ranged weapon.

About the changes, the upkeep hurts a bit the way I play ... I often choose to be a 1h/2h or polearm hybrid, and needless to say, I'm quickly bankrupt if I try to wear decent armor. It is an improvement nevertheless.
The current xp system is not perfect, but it's a lot less abusable than the previous one. Still I really miss the xp and gold for duels, not for the gain, which was small, but for the depopulated duel servers.

So yeah, I'm nostalgia'ing a bit, but in the end, the patch and all that were for the better.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 23, 2011, 01:21:16 pm
Overall the patch was an improvement, in fact at this point any further work is an improvement, aprt of the problem is thats everal months have passed without any even tiny patch and so you see a lot of the imbalances become excacerbated like half of people on servers being hybrid or pure thrower, polearm stun spammers multiplying, or at least 30 gen 25+ I can name off the top of my head (probably a lot more that I don't know about).

Needless to say some tweaking support patches every few weeks that require minimal programming would have made this feel less of a grind for people waiting for strategus as it would be a continually new game, next patch with 2 weapons slots for gigantic weapons is a great idea, cudos to cmpx for taking the time to code it.  (To give you an idea the persistent world mod gets patches on average about 1 every 1-2 weeks with a smaller community using it).

-Remove polearm stun except for stabs with polearms (polarm lock abuse rampant now with whole builds dedicated to it)
-Make weapons take up 2 slots to rebalance hybrids (already being done)
-Remove retirement xp bonus but return to how it was immediately after first major patch where it was 1500 xp/x1 base with a kill radius like pre-patch worked in for bonus xp (that actually made fights feel so much more dynamic as it added a new challenge to strategy, right now every fight is starting to feel a little too familiar like deja vu).
-Just set maximum effective wpf at 180 or 200 (was 700 pre-patch) and allow a reasonable wpf cost.  (This cap might also allow levelling up to 35-38 without warping the system and increase build diversity).

These are just suggestions, but pretty much anything at this point would be great, just come out with a patch.

But i have to follow this up with a thank you as you could very well have abandoned the project all together, so thank you for working on it.  Just explaining why there might be some frustration.  Overall still a work in progress that just feels like the progress is stalled because we get so little news of any sort of progress on the big patch.

im with you the whole paragraph.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 23, 2011, 01:28:24 pm
I realy dont understand why are people so stressed about levels and grinding. I mean i chose to play this game because it is different from all the other kind of crap they throw at you daily.

Seriously if you like korean mmos so much lets just introduce a 200 lvl cap wich takes 10 year to reach, get some healers, tanks other crap and call it fucking world of warband.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 23, 2011, 02:04:26 pm
I realy dont understand why are people so stressed about levels and grinding. I mean i chose to play this game because it is different from all the other kind of crap they throw at you daily.

Seriously if you like korean mmos so much lets just introduce a 200 lvl cap wich takes 10 year to reach, get some healers, tanks other crap and call it fucking world of warband.  :rolleyes:

the POINT is that fortunately we have a level cap (psssst and i say its good.. even if it is too low.) BUT some ridicolous no lifer kids like vicious666 grinded full heirloom sets just to hope to be the 2011 olwen-wannabe hero.

So or we put a GENERATION cap fairly low (6 heirlooms seems fair... a masterwork weapon + a lordly body armor, or whatever.) or we get rid of the level cap too.

now its nonsense to have a level cap but hiding the grind behind the generation route. i saw arrow glancing/bouncing on high gen full plate players.

if we had level 42+ wpf stackers before, now we have heavy tanks with 80+ armor.

and guess why crpg topped near 600+ players in the same time prepatch and now hardly reach 350.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gnjus on April 23, 2011, 02:29:11 pm
and guess why crpg topped near 600+ players in the same time prepatch and now hardly reach 350.

Because the school holidays ended ?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 23, 2011, 03:04:47 pm
Because the school holidays ended ?

for PREPATCH i mean from october to december. i ended school in the '97... didn't know kids have 3 months long holidays.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 23, 2011, 03:33:41 pm

and guess why crpg topped near 600+ players in the same time prepatch and now hardly reach 350.

Add all the servers together and it is a lot higher then 350. We have more servers now thus a more thinned out pop.

As for the arrow glance statement, it was likely a low level archer doing a long shot. I can shoot up goretooth and he has the best armor and gauntlets in the game, heirloomed of course, and I never glance.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 23, 2011, 06:02:43 pm
Add all the servers together and it is a lot higher then 350. We have more servers now thus a more thinned out pop.

As for the arrow glance statement, it was likely a low level archer doing a long shot. I can shoot up goretooth and he has the best armor and gauntlets in the game, heirloomed of course, and I never glance.

uhm Cheapshot (good archer) need like 5 or 6 arrows at 10 meters range to take me down when i wear stock coat of plates... guess what when he shoot at someone wearing heirlooms for 82 body armor.

funny thing i still get 1hit by throwing lances and 2hit by jarids.

no surprise to see very few archers and really a lot throwers.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 23, 2011, 06:35:09 pm
uhm Cheapshot (good archer) need like 5 or 6 arrows at 10 meters range to take me down when i wear stock coat of plates... guess what when he shoot at someone wearing heirlooms for 82 body armor.

funny thing i still get 1hit by throwing lances and 2hit by jarids.

no surprise to see very few archers and really a lot throwers.

Define good archer, is he a high accuracy but low PDbuild made for sniping or light targets or headshots? What bow is he using?

With a warbow and 8PD I can knock most targets with one arrow for luck or two or three pn average. Coat of plate wearers take three to four dependng on the build (one guy took five but he later said he had 30 strand IF).

The average archer uses a strongbow and has six PD and this will not glance. My previous post said shoot up, notone or twoshot. To be fair, a bunch of arrows is fine anyways as amor may as well protect you from something, right? My point is, most archers will not glance against plate, though the damage may vary considerably with the specific amount of truckloads of required arrows.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on April 24, 2011, 06:29:58 am
So, I recently started playing again after quite a long time (before latest patch).

There are some positive differences and some negative ones.

Firstly, there is more teamwork in general, and not just from clans - clanless people are playing a lot better together. The upkeep system is great, you can't play in plate all the time, but you can maintain medium armour and a couple of weapons for ever.

I see your point about missing the old times, but it's better for casual players which is good. I definitely miss the small servers and player's distinctive gear so you could target the most annoying ones, but you still see the older players around (I especially miss the times before the NA players got a server, now we don't play together anymore)

As for peasant wars, I'd be absolutely for a server reset like the old days, would be so much fun, but I think too many people would cry :D


A lot of the negative changes I think will be fixed soon in the next patch (everyone has a pike, everyone using the same fotm weapon etc etc).

The most annoying thing is the tendency to camp now. I remember when if someone suggested camping (even if it was a good idea for the situation) they'd get a torrent of abuse hurled at them. Now camping seems to be the default strategy.
Partly I think this is due to the amount of ranged going on. If you think back through cRPG history, ranged weapons being OP has happened with just as much frequency as any other category, and it's something that can be fixed with patches. But even if no particular ranged weapon is OP, there can still be a problem with the quantity of ranged. Hopefully the new patch will fix that with the slot thing. At the moment it's a little bit ridiculous - everyone has throwing or xbow as a backup weapon. And throwing does so much damage :(

Another annoying thing is that due to the multiplier sometimes teams can get really defeatist - if they're on x1 for a few rounds everyone switches to worse gear and doesn't make much of an effort to beat the other team - they just wait for the next map and autobalance to favour them more.

Also, I don't get the point of retirement, unless you mess up your build. Heirloomed weapons might be nice, but they're don't seem worth the effort really. And the new wpf system has slowed fights down quite a lot, except for katana/sidesword/long halfted mace etc users.

I still see plated archers and plated HA with armoured horses, which was supposed to be fixed, but I guess as long as they can't afford to do it all the time it's sort of ok. And there are a lot more shielders now (presumably cos of the ranged spam), which is nice, battles look better made up of mainly shielders - more authentic than having an army of 2handers.

It's also really nice that we've got a map-making community now, but it'd be great if they could optimise their maps (a lot of the new ones get fps drop and lag, I'd rather a map was less pretty and played better). As well, a lot of maps seem to have been made by people who love ranged camping and hate cav.

Last thing, horses are damned expensive to upkeep, considering they're made of paper. Maybe the slot thing will make them more worth the cost.

Anyway, largely it seems pretty good, and is still as fun as before. And I don't see why there's a lack of improvement in your character - just don't retire. It's slow, true, but that's what you miss surely? You'll get more of a sense of achievement when you hit 35 or whatever.

A lot of different stuff, but I cba typing stuff in the relevant places.


Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 24, 2011, 06:38:29 am
(click to show/hide)

I love you.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Prpavi on April 24, 2011, 10:20:38 am
That's irrelevant, Prpavi, it was always like that since people figured out crossbows didn't need wp to be effective. Given the opportunity, most players don't hesitate to take a ranged weapon.



Sorry but no it wasnt always like that.

Its getting increasingly frustrating to play pure melee class where 90 percent of the people are shooting/throwing at you, if you dont believe me just look at some of the players stopped playing this game last months.

and not talking about randoms im talking about ppl that were here since the really early days.

looking forward to some real changes.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Brutal on April 24, 2011, 02:41:41 pm
The most annoying thing is the tendency to camp now. I remember when if someone suggested camping (even if it was a good idea for the situation) they'd get a torrent of abuse hurled at them. Now camping seems to be the default strategy.
Yea it's really a shame and not fun. Maybe ranged as something to do with this but the charging team still seems to be the winning one most of the time. (except for some unbalanced map)
The Oasis map is the perfect example of this phenomenon with that hill that everybody seems to be addicted to. It just doesn't offer any protection from ranged quite the contrary and so easy to encircle it's almost a sure defeat but we just got to camp there !!!  :mrgreen:
Even Phaz is promotting hillcamping and forteress camping and i'm not even talking about my old friends and their crushtrough door camping  :mrgreen:
2-3 day ago on EU1 we were hill camping and lost 3 time in a row on random map. Out of despair we all charged and we just crushed the other team and then followed 2 round of pure epicness with massive charge and "Attack" spamming

Is it really ranged responsible ? I dunno but i remember that pre-patch ranged was much worse and that entire team would hide behind wall because being exposed meant instant death. Now people are camping way before any ranged is present, it has become a habbit.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: JOPOTINTTI on April 24, 2011, 02:46:10 pm
its just that people dont want to waste their lifes in arrows , so they wait till the enemy come to them , prepatch this problem was impossible cuz of no upkeep
and you actually had to fight or be close to fight to get money , now its just xbow&bow roofcampfesthiding2hbehindhouses
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Xant on April 24, 2011, 04:40:42 pm
More importantly, what is with this anti-Xantian atmosphere on the forums?! I can barely make a few posts before being muted! It is quite sickening and is quickly causing emotional trauma as there is an admin conspiracy against me to make it seem like people don't like me (the great unwashed masses love me) so yes ptx I know of your dirty underhanded tactics and I will be sending you a strongly worded letter in the near future thank you

PS someone give me -1 so I can have -200 it's sexier than -199
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Alex_C on April 24, 2011, 04:44:48 pm
PS someone give me -1 so I can have -200 it's sexier than -199

Done, but I think it muted you.

###EDIT###

nvm, I'm seeing things >.> <.<
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 24, 2011, 05:15:04 pm
And there are a lot more shielders now (presumably cos of the ranged spam), which is nice, battles look better made up of mainly shielders - more authentic than having an army of 2handers.

the main cause isn't the ranged spam. is the fact that morningstar is no more, soon the barmace will be no more, the level cap forced 2handers to use less powerstrike to blockcrush and the general lower weapon profiency made slower fights giving shielders more chances (as two handed / polearms benefit more from profiency)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: LordRichrich on April 24, 2011, 05:17:31 pm
I barely got above peasant before the upkeep patch but it was fun, more so than now
I realised that there were tin cans, much higher level than me. I didn't moan. I got a winged mace and did some damage! I only had one character, after the patch I got up to seven, because the one character that I had leveled so quickly and obtained all the equipment I wanted.
People can't play the builds they want all the time now. That surely removes a large part of the RPG from cRPG
If you saw a guy on a horse on your team, you knew he had clocked a lot of hours and would probaly help you win. Same if you saw a guy with a longbow etc
Of course tis is pointless because of all the players who want things now, now, now, now and don't want to invest time in their character
For me, this has taken a turn towards CoD. Not because of the ranged but because of the way you level, "prestife", level, "prestige". Why not go the whole hog and put different weapons at different level unlocks?
This is partly why I don't play anymore. Also because of, IMO, better MP mods such as Invasion and the new F&S coming out. But if this mod were good and I developed some sort of bond with my character who I had to play for hours to level or buy the padded jacket then maybe I'd stay.
On that note, about 60% of my characters time was spent in that padded jacket. Yes it only gave me 25 body armour but it was the first armour I purchased to make me not look like I peasant. I felt joyous the first time I put it on. Now it's my low-tier armour for when I'm low on gold
cRPG has lost the substance it had, lost the idea that you're playing YOU
It's just a bit arcadey

P.S. Abondon it and make one for F&S, with the original leveling and gold system
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Banok on April 24, 2011, 07:38:32 pm
Btw it was me that gave you that last vote, getting you muted <3

+1 for you, good job sir.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Leesin on April 24, 2011, 08:25:16 pm
Still remains a fact that cRPG has a far larger playerbase than any other mod and other than Mount and Musket no other mod fills even one large server, hell most of them struggle to fill a single small server.Infact a large % of people who play Warband MP, play cRPG, so those who keep playing must be enjoying it.

If these changes didn't happen, I wouldn't have started playing again, I stopped playing pre-patch because I got completely bored of it, including Strategus. Far more variety on the field now, it's alot more enjoyable and people have to actually think about what equipment they're going to use, rather than just slapping on the most expensive stuff without any downside in doing so.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Huey Newton on April 24, 2011, 09:10:18 pm
The magic and frustration that occured pre-patch ran hand in hand. And I loved it.
Working towards an item for days and even weeks at a time. Then finally getting it. And typing to the whole server

"LOOK AT MY NEW BRIGANDINE, SWEET HUH"

well maybe that was just me, but reguardless
the sense of adventure of cRPG is long gone and I think it will never come back.
Strategus will make things very interesting and hopefully take our minds off of the good ol days.

Huey Newton
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Christo on April 24, 2011, 09:54:44 pm
The magic and frustration that occured pre-patch ran hand in hand. And I loved it.
Working towards an item for days and even weeks at a time. Then finally getting it. And typing to the whole server

"LOOK AT MY NEW BRIGANDINE, SWEET HUH"

well maybe that was just me, but reguardless
the sense of adventure of cRPG is long gone and I think it will never come back.
Strategus will make things very interesting and hopefully take our minds off of the good ol days.

Huey Newton

Nah, I remember when I checked the list of armour back then and.. MAIL AND PLATE OMG I WANT  :shock:..
I played for it for days.. and finally when I got it, then the leg armour, gloves, and finally a cool helmet that fits to my armor, and the Elegant Poleaxe..

Oh god every item felt like opening a Christmas gift box.  :)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Rhade on April 24, 2011, 10:42:50 pm
Grinding is easier.

Great.

cRPG is not about grinding.

All you're advocating and pining for the loss of is, in essence, grinding.

I, for one, disagree wholeheartedly -- if you want to grind, go find a nice Korean mmo, there are lots of them. Many people now confuse "RPG" with "grind", but that's not necessarily true.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Huey Newton on April 24, 2011, 10:56:24 pm
Grinding is easier.

Great.

cRPG is not about grinding.

All you're advocating and pining for the loss of is, in essence, grinding.

I, for one, disagree wholeheartedly -- if you want to grind, go find a nice Korean mmo, there are lots of them. Many people now confuse "RPG" with "grind", but that's not necessarily true.

What is cRPG about then
surely not just character customization
Because if it was, everyone would just start out with level 31 worth of skill and atrribute points and be allowed to distribute them however.
Also every item would be free and everyones free to wear whatever if they meet requirements.

Crpg is about grinding, character customization, a database where it can be stored, a place where clan activity has meaning (strategus) and of course trolling
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 24, 2011, 11:27:10 pm
this
(click to show/hide)
is the current state of cRPG

Sadly true.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Ganon on April 24, 2011, 11:59:09 pm
I must agree with the OP, i stopped playing (maybe i log on once a week to do some duels). I will come back if crpg gets developed again, until then i'll just play other games.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Torp on April 25, 2011, 12:32:51 am
This game/mod keeps my interest because i can change build as much as i like and customize my character so it is exactly as i want it to be :D

I usually get a new build, practice it, try to find the perfect build, and once i'm satisfied, i try a new build.

this gives me a lot of change so the game doesnt get boring
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Moscher on April 25, 2011, 12:40:16 am
Its extremly boring now after repair patch,

i write the complete guide planed/organisized  with other players that the guides come in 8 different languages

We get many player with the guides, i wrote in many forum about crpg.

It come no thanks from any admin,moderator  or chadz. After the repair patch, i play only some times in the week if i get bored. But it is not the same crpg. Its a stupid grinding crpg with cap. Before it was a grinding crpg where you can reach a dream of great weapons and skill points.

I think crpg in this form with no development is dead.

I dont wanna attack someone, it is not my mod and chadz sayed that if we dont like this repair mod, we can leave. And i think 50 -70 % are gone.

Sorry for my english, i am from germany

Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 25, 2011, 01:04:25 am
The population of this mod radically changed with the patch, and the mindset of those who stayed changed. Not for the better, that for sure. We lost the atmosphere of friendship there was among players, because others weren't really in your way. Now everyone apart from your clan is an enemy, and you must be effective, since it will grant you the holy multiplier. Just watch how half a team disconnects when they loose their x5. Everything has gone into winning the rounds, not having fun. Honor, fairplay and such things are gone. Very few people are really customizing their char, simply because everyone knows builds that work very well, you just have to choose what game mechanic you want to exploit. Watch around you and count the ones fitting a theme or trying odd ways of fighting, there were much more before everything you did had to be devoted to victory.

Prepatch, sure, long time grinders had an advantage. But nobody cared about that, except on rare occasions when disbalances were detrimental to the fun (armored HAs...). Now even a peasant has to be balanced with a knight. In practice it has been done the hard way, by simply removing the possibility of expensive equipment. It was a complete fail because imbalances aren't linked at all with equipment cost. Plate armors isn't good at level 30 since it slows you down way too much, and many cheap weapons are dirty OP. The upkeep makes it impossible to roleplay a knight.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: San on April 25, 2011, 01:06:41 am
I have been playing for a few days now after I satisfied myself with all of the single player mods available.

I don't think my opinion carries much weight as far as character balance goes, since I am still very new, but a lot of STR heavy builds seems to be severely debilitated. I browse through the list of available weapons/armor, and most of it caters to those with low to medium strength.

I would be fine with this because patches can fix problems, but the whole peasant thing from 0 to 20 feels really unneeded. I dreaded losing to anything and everything until level 17 or so.

There is no point to being pretty much useless for hours and hours. Once I got to level 15, I felt as though I put in too much effort to want to re-stat, also. I believe there isn't enough customization with creating one character and sticking with them for 40+ hours.

So all in all:
1. Items that don't all cater to a specific build (and in some cases, items used effectively through any build needs to go)
2. More build malleability. My character does not feel very customizable since I feel as though I need to build him along a set predetermined path.
3. Efforts to make balance. People usually prefer balance by buffing the weak instead of nerfing the strong.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Casimir on April 25, 2011, 04:44:14 am
The last posters point carries more weight than antone else.

He is new and fresh to cRPG. Yet to be corrupted by it.

He may not have experienced all but this is the person the devs want to cater for according to the justification for their past actions.

IMO str builds are you best bet ATM with 150 as the max realistic WPF
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Babelfish on April 25, 2011, 01:11:42 pm
Since some over zealous moderator locked the 'The Final Solution to the Archer Issue' i might as-well post my reply on this thread, since its not entirely off-topic.

Archers say they only have 32 (bodkin) arrows and thus are unable to kill as many as they wish to. What they seem to forget is that there are tons of other archers out there with the same amount of arrows.

To be kind, lets say out of 100 people on the battle server, 20 people are playing as archers. Thats 10 archers per team.

If every archer fire all his arrows (based on bodkin) thats 640 arrows.. Most archer probably wont fire them all, depending on map & luck.
 So lets say 75% of the arrows gets fired. Thats 480 arrows per round...

If we add in the xbows & throwing projectiles, it is no wonder people hate range.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: VicTheBear on April 25, 2011, 02:05:52 pm
Since some over zealous moderator locked the 'The Final Solution to the Archer Issue' i might as-well post my reply on this thread, since its not entirely off-topic.

Archers say they only have 32 (bodkin) arrows and thus are unable to kill as many as they wish to. What they seem to forget is that there are tons of other archers out there with the same amount of arrows.

To be kind, lets say out of 100 people on the battle server, 20 people are playing as archers. Thats 10 archers per team.

If every archer fire all his arrows (based on bodkin) thats 640 arrows.. Most archer probably wont fire them all, depending on map & luck.
 So lets say 75% of the arrows gets fired. Thats 480 arrows per round...

If we add in the xbows & throwing projectiles, it is no wonder people hate range.

It takes more than one arrow to kill someone though.
I'm lvl 31 with 144 prof and I use a warbow and it still takes 2+ arrows to kill anyone in decent armor or someone with str/ironflesh high enough to matter.
The only complaint I've had with archery the entire time I've played crpg (way back to pre-retirement days) is that it's meant to be a support class and with this mod it's impossible to be a support character. You get nothing out of it. Not even a useless little number on the website to boost your ego. I can look and see how many people I've killed, but I get nothing for shooting someone 3 times and having a teammate who happened to be closer to the guy walk over and overhead him and get a kill that should have been mine.
But that's how archery should be. Anything else would just break the mod even more.
Throwing IMO is a bit op, but eh, nothing you can't rage about for a bit and move on about.

Back to the OP's point:
The game does feel different; I think that the whole retirement thing was crazy but I'm not the one developing the game so meh.
I completely agree that the 'original' crpg was the best time I've had in this game. I was a shitty low-level archer that was lucky to get more than 5 kills a map but somehow it was still loads of fun.
The new goal of the game has become to level your character, retire, and tripple loom every item you use.
Which is a grind, right? Yes.
Whether the goal of retirement was to create this new kind of grind or not is pointless. Ya I could retire and heirloom something but if I were retiring to change my build it would be useless to loom a 2h weapon and switch to pole and at the same time, I don't want to retire at 15 and get no bonus.
I just hate everything since the introduction of retirement so I'm a bit biased, haha.
Actually retirement is why I quit cRPG for a month or so. Once I decided that I needed to look at it as a new game, rather than an updated version of cRPG it was ok.


I honestly wish that they would run two server sets, one for the "original" crpg and one for this new chadz rpg thing, whatever it is.
That would solve all my complaints.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 25, 2011, 05:37:41 pm
Try a 30/9 build, with 10 pd and full archery wpf. You will still be accurate and it will take 1, max 2 arrows to kill
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 25, 2011, 05:43:25 pm
Try a 30/9 build, with 10 pd and full archery wpf. You will still be accurate and it will take 1, max 2 arrows to kill

I have done this as my first build with a warbow, and it certainly works well for everything but sniping. If you act as a close support archer who sticks with the group, this build works wonders for killing high-priority targets or cav. Typically mail is killed in two shots, and sometimes three for well armored high STR/IF builds. Tin cans still take a hell of a beating to kill(as it should be) but you can blow through shields and break them with ease.

If you want to be funny, use a masterwork longbow and double heirloomed bodkins and aim for the chain users within 10 meters with a 10PD build.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 25, 2011, 07:48:15 pm
I have done this as my first build with a warbow, and it certainly works well for everything but sniping. If you act as a close support archer who sticks with the group, this build works wonders for killing high-priority targets or cav. Typically mail is killed in two shots, and sometimes three for well armored high STR/IF builds. Tin cans still take a hell of a beating to kill(as it should be) but you can blow through shields and break them with ease.

If you want to be funny, use a masterwork longbow and double heirloomed bodkins and aim for the chain users within 10 meters with a 10PD build.

but if you can't hit shit at range, better switch to a 30/9 or 24/15 thrower. at least you oneshot everytime and you still have room for powerstrike

EDIT: and that's what almost half archers did and lots of other players did. that's why i everytime see at least 20-30 throwers in siege.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 25, 2011, 08:21:25 pm
but if you can't hit shit at range, better switch to a 30/9 or 24/15 thrower. at least you oneshot everytime and you still have room for powerstrike

EDIT: and that's what almost half archers did and lots of other players did. that's why i everytime see at least 20-30 throwers in siege.

Cav avoid throwers if they have half a brain but often underestimate archers, and it feels great to one shot a cav coming at you.

Regardless, with 139 wpf you can still shoot farther then a thrower with accuracy, if only for a bit of distance. Additionally, I prefer the thought of using a bow over that of a thrower for the simple reason that it holds a higher romantic concept in my head.

Personal taste, done a thrower, never got into it much and cba to retire it as it was too much work to level it up for me to want to do it again. Now a sideline alt. To each their own, right?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Murchad on April 25, 2011, 08:48:44 pm
I like the less ammo solution to ranged spam, now that the rate of fire has been reduced on archers and xbow it cuts down on the speed of ranged spam, with less ammo it will cut down on the ammout.
throwing rate of fire should be reduced. it should take longer to pull out another throwing weapon
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: VicTheBear on April 25, 2011, 09:12:57 pm
I'm at 8 pd, I guess I should have thrown a few more into that rather than athletics. And I totally wasted one point on ironflesh. (I have a grand total of 1 point in it. Useless.)

Oh well, as soon as I hit 32, right?  :D
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gnjus on April 25, 2011, 09:26:14 pm
I'm at 8 pd, I guess I should have thrown a few more into that rather than athletics. And I totally wasted one point on ironflesh. (I have a grand total of 1 point in it. Useless.)

Oh well, as soon as I hit 32, right?  :D

What a disgrace. Our honorary member, the Holy mother of Bears is a dedicated archer.
Gross.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 25, 2011, 09:30:53 pm
What a disgrace. Our honorary member, the Holy mother of Bears is a dedicated archer.
Gross.

She always was, hence my extreme amusement when browsing the OP of your clan.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: VicTheBear on April 25, 2011, 09:36:55 pm
What a disgrace. Our honorary member, the Holy mother of Bears is a dedicated archer.
Gross.

Mwahahahhaaaa, silly Gnjus, these are the consequences of sticking so faithfully to your EU servers!
You would have known!
 :wink:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gnjus on April 25, 2011, 09:43:30 pm
Mwahahahhaaaa, silly Gnjus, these are the consequences of sticking so faithfully to your EU servers!
You would have known!
 :wink:

Anything over 100 ping is unplayable for me so i cant visit NA servers as much as I'd like to.  :wink:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Christo on April 25, 2011, 09:45:48 pm
The population of this mod radically changed with the patch, and the mindset of those who stayed changed. Not for the better, that for sure. We lost the atmosphere of friendship there was among players, because others weren't really in your way. Now everyone apart from your clan is an enemy, and you must be effective, since it will grant you the holy multiplier. Just watch how half a team disconnects when they loose their x5. Everything has gone into winning the rounds, not having fun. Honor, fairplay and such things are gone. Very few people are really customizing their char, simply because everyone knows builds that work very well, you just have to choose what game mechanic you want to exploit. Watch around you and count the ones fitting a theme or trying odd ways of fighting, there were much more before everything you did had to be devoted to victory.

Well said Kafein, this is what I feel too, but I had no idea how to tell it.
+1000
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 25, 2011, 09:59:01 pm
Anything over 100 ping is unplayable for me so i cant visit NA servers as much as I'd like to.  :wink:

Try the new Acre server! It has better ping for EU, though I am not sure how your ping would compare. Some EU have reported barely under 100 ping, so you might be lucky (Worth a glance).
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: MouthnHoof on April 25, 2011, 11:08:36 pm
If someone has all his equipment triple heirloomed, then it is not that the game became boring, its the guys life that became boring. Are you people insane? how much do you play? I am now looking forward to my first retirement since the patch, slowly going past 30.5.

Seriously people, you can't obsessively play a game and complain that it does not allow you to advance anymore. The vast majority of the players (I bet) are no where near this situation. The typical advancement-rate of such a game cannot be decided by the few grand grind masters.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: ManOfWar on April 25, 2011, 11:18:30 pm
I am level 32 at the moment, and triple heirlooming things now and the grind that I dread seems like a better alternative than lvl 33-

also do not worry people I am not going to triple heirloom the cheap side sword
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: MrShovelFace on April 26, 2011, 12:53:22 am
old player here too starting just after vince did the big no no

I definitely agree that this mod is a shadow of it's former self


I once spent a whole summer grinding up gold to get my fat man place. A whole summer!!

and this wasnt because i was lazy, it was because the NA at that time only had about 20 players at any given time and the max gold i could earn (assuming i stayed with the crowd of.. 5 players) was only 40 a round!!

But after those 7 or so weeks of getting gold i had enough and i could finally wear my plate armor as a way of saying -

hey, i have a lot of spare time


but then the player base grew and chadz made it somewhat easier to get gold (being 130 per round!) and before i knew it i was surrounded by players wearing full plate with cookie swords and sporting sniper xbows on their backs.

and now days we earn about 500 average a game and this is justified as 'balance for upkeep'.

What the hell was wrong with the first system, why did it have to change so radically!??!
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kelugarn on April 26, 2011, 06:27:52 am
Now, I haven't read all of this thread, sorry to those posters who I had to skim over in the sake of time, but as a player who wandered into cRPG in the first week of public beta I too feel that much of the magic has been lost; that magic once upon a time made spending several hours a day on the (then only) EU server with my 280 latency getting horribly slaughtered every round, worth every minute of rage. Like some of the posters before me I remember when I finally bought my full plate set, and that feeling can only be described here as pure childish glee, when I equipped my plate I couldn't wait to run across the server and listen to the blows glance off of me, mowing my merry way through peasants with my glaive. Even during the middle of the beta stages, some 6 months ago (before I took my long needed break) the best sensation was hacking down peasants and fighting Destin or Ash one on one at the end of the round (usually losing cause I'm really terrible 8-) ).

But something's changed.
It's not that I don't enjoy cRPG still, I do, but no longer are there masses of peasants slowly grinding their way up until they can begin to fight back. As I type this in between rounds I see more knights in shining armor than I do farmers running and throwing rocks. Even when I have long satisfying duels in the middle of battle it's not the same, before even if I died in one exchange I still felt content, but now even if I hack down an entire team it just feels the same.

I don't know if I've changed in these 6 months, maybe I have. But what I do know is that I just don't feel the same way anymore. I'm sorry, it's not like cRPG has lost all of it's old self, most of it is still there (mainly the archer/horse archer/thrower/nerf <whatever I don't use> hate) but it's just not the same. I guess the spark is gone. But baby I hope we can still be friends, I'm sorry cRPG, it's really not you, it's me.

P.S. I hope most of the older player stay (including myself), I really do.
P.P.S. Varyag you are the sole reason I bought a pike as a peasant.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Metz on April 26, 2011, 07:03:25 am
Why not make servers that are pre-patch. That way people can play the  new CRPG which is quick leveling and retiring, and then if they want to play the hardcore version that is more rewarding, they can play on the pre-patch servers. That way if people are tired of grinding they go to the post-patch servers and if people are tired of of the new patch they go to the old patch where they can make use of their skill and elite grinding.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 26, 2011, 08:44:27 am
Why not make servers that are pre-patch. That way people can play the  new CRPG which is quick leveling and retiring, and then if they want to play the hardcore version that is more rewarding, they can play on the pre-patch servers. That way if people are tired of grinding they go to the post-patch servers and if people are tired of of the new patch they go to the old patch where they can make use of their skill and elite grinding.

Not really possible since money is so much easier to get in the new servers. It would defeat the purpose of a prepatch server.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: MouthnHoof on April 26, 2011, 04:24:51 pm
What the hell was wrong with the first system, why did it have to change so radically!??!
Do you really need an explanation?
OK, you played till WASD keys fell off your keyboard and got your plate. It is just a matter of time till most players will be running around with plate and sniper xbow - the old system with no upkeep is an escalating situation. The current one is stable and much more welcoming to new players. Living without x3 heirloomed stuff is acceptable. Being a peasant for a long long period among a crowd of plated monsters is not.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gorath on April 26, 2011, 04:28:13 pm
Living without x3 heirloomed stuff is acceptable.

Not when you've been playing far longer than the people that abused the broken retirement/wpf system who are gen 394509
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Christo on April 26, 2011, 04:29:36 pm
Not when you've been playing far longer than the people that abused the broken retirement/wpf system who are gen 394509

Agreed.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: chadz on April 26, 2011, 04:37:46 pm
for those who wished it: statistics about the player numbers. I'm sorry to burst your armageddon bubble:
http://c-rpg.net/statistics.html
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: JOPOTINTTI on April 26, 2011, 04:41:22 pm
09.01.2011 Peak day ! almost 4000 per day! c :lol:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 26, 2011, 04:43:00 pm
for those who wished it: statistics about the player numbers. I'm sorry to burst your armageddon bubble:
http://c-rpg.net/statistics.html

Now who saw that coming.  :rolleyes:

I love it when people claim that the servers are less full, forgetting that we have a lot more servers thus spreading out the population which is larger.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Ginosaji on April 26, 2011, 04:43:25 pm
for those who wished it: statistics about the player numbers. I'm sorry to burst your armageddon bubble:
http://c-rpg.net/statistics.html


Nooooo, not my bubble :(

Pretty impressive statistics, gz :)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Phazey on April 26, 2011, 04:56:13 pm
Wow, i can't believe i actually read the whole thread. Every post.

I get the feeling many of the posters in this thread don't realize the old cRPG was quickly becoming a plate fest. Heck, i remember getting that Milanse Plate and later that Cataphract horse. It was fun, but very unbalanced. Retiring to boost WPF also quickly became a problem.
The current system is much more balanced and more challenging. Less grind, more focus on teamplay and winning.

Another feeling crept over me when reading all the posts in this thread. I guess i'm just gonna say it: many posters seem to just whine and sulk. I get a sense of bitter resentment.... an impressing of unfair and biased critisism without offering viable solutions or alternatives.

Some seem angry for losing some advantage they feel entitled to, because they grinded for that. And then proceed to critize aspects of cRPG that they feel caused them to lose their advantage.
Try looking beyond the scope of your character. And try not to sulk and whine. Get constructive instead of whiney. And look at the mod as a whole, not just your personal experiences.

I think cRPG has been getting better and better and i'm quite happy. Tactics galore nowadays. Really can't complain. Yes, people camp a lot. It's because they want to play smart. Camping can work, it can also fail. Stuff seems to balance out great.

I'm sorry to burst your armageddon bubble: http://c-rpg.net/statistics.html

Guess that kinda says it all. Healthy population growth with peaks during vacation time and the week after that. Looking good.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Cris on April 26, 2011, 06:09:24 pm
Wow, i can't believe i actually read the whole thread. Every post.

I get the feeling many of the posters in this thread don't realize the old cRPG was quickly becoming a plate fest. Heck, i remember getting that Milanse Plate and later that Cataphract horse. It was fun, but very unbalanced. Retiring to boost WPF also quickly became a problem.
The current system is much more balanced and more challenging. Less grind, more focus on teamplay and winning.

Another feeling crept over me when reading all the posts in this thread. I guess i'm just gonna say it: many posters seem to just whine and sulk. I get a sense of bitter resentment.... an impressing of unfair and biased critisism without offering viable solutions or alternatives.

Some seem angry for losing some advantage they feel entitled to, because they grinded for that. And then proceed to critize aspects of cRPG that they feel caused them to lose their advantage.
Try looking beyond the scope of your character. And try not to sulk and whine. Get constructive instead of whiney. And look at the mod as a whole, not just your personal experiences.


I think cRPG has been getting better and better and i'm quite happy. Tactics galore nowadays. Really can't complain. Yes, people camp a lot. It's because they want to play smart. Camping can work, it can also fail. Stuff seems to balance out great.

Guess that kinda says it all. Healthy population growth with peaks during vacation time and the week after that. Looking good.

On the constructive side...persoanlly I do not wish for the olden days system, I think that upkeep and higher WPP cost was a great introduction...it ended 2h spammers killing you faster than you could swing back even though they were wearng the heaviest of armorsm, it also ended acrossmap headshots due to pinpoint reticules (assuming the archer could aim).

 Personally I'd like to see higher levels as an option (not stupid 40s) instead of retiring...that way we can make better hybrid builds...Such as, the current scalating 1-30 lvl carried on to 35, and then shooting off into very hard to achieve levels...but it will probably never happen :P
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 26, 2011, 06:15:06 pm
Not when you've been playing far longer than the people that abused the broken retirement/wpf system who are gen 394509

that's false since is by far easier to retire now than before the patch. i spent 350k gold prepatch to retire to gen10 and the retirement was forced once a week. now people just retire every 2 days without spending money. now we have gen25+ people that was gen1 prepatch.

since the wpf stacking is canceled and who had 10 heirloom modifiers prepatch now have 1/3 of the total (i was gen10, 9 heirloom modified items and patch cut it to 3 heirloom mods) isn't fault of those "nerd abuz0rs of the broken retirement/wpf system who are gen 394509" as the highest was keshian with his gen15 archer.

time passes but nothing has changed... you keep spreading false informations like six months ago.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 26, 2011, 06:21:07 pm
On the constructive side...persoanlly I do not wish for the olden days system, I think that upkeep and higher WPP cost was a great introduction...it ended 2h spammers killing you faster than you could swing back even though they were wearng the heaviest of armorsm, it also ended acrossmap headshots due to pinpoint reticules (assuming the archer could aim).

 Personally I'd like to see higher levels as an option (not stupid 40s) instead of retiring...that way we can make better hybrid builds...Such as, the current scalating 1-30 lvl carried on to 35, and then shooting off into very hard to achieve levels...but it will probably never happen :P

i would like a higher level cap and easier xp to see better care for hybrids and to allow more customization and to speed up fights / see higher damage a little.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: v/onMega on April 26, 2011, 06:41:46 pm
I remember duelling you prepatch.

The amount of sexiness, heartattacking speed and low reaction time was is and will be undescribable.

Good too see u play again.

+ 1 for faster gameplay!

2handers killing @ the speed of light simply was possible due to enormous, idiotic grind.

I call that a reward...believe me, I always smiled while doing it.

About the current state:

Crpg hasnt lost anything of its awesomeness.

The aim is different, cant say better or worse, more of a question of your own likes or dislikes.

There still is plenty of reasons to grind.
Actually there is more than prepatch, since i never felt like looming armor or the princess hammer, but I definetly do now.

Like mentioned, only thing i really really miss is faster gamespeed... :-(
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 26, 2011, 07:17:27 pm
I remember duelling you prepatch.

The amount of sexiness, heartattacking speed and low reaction time was is and will be undescribable.

Good too see u play again.

+ 1 for faster gameplay!

2handers killing @ the speed of light simply was possible due to enormous, idiotic grind.

I call that a reward...believe me, I always smiled while doing it.

About the current state:

Crpg hasnt lost anything of its awesomeness.

The aim is different, cant say better or worse, more of a question of your own likes or dislikes.

There still is plenty of reasons to grind.
Actually there is more than prepatch, since i never felt like looming armor or the princess hammer, but I definetly do now.

Like mentioned, only thing i really really miss is faster gamespeed... :-(

i totally agree. but slow people compare that old lightspeed to a spamfest (and is false.. mindless spamming even with the prepatch fight speed was a suicide playstyle easy to counter with minimum brain-to-hand coordination).

the thing that makes me laugh is that some players now say that 2h are still too fast. and the truth is that all the gameplay is much slower and should be easier for warband newbies. damage is generally also a lot lower than before (lower level-cap, lower powerstrike, lower profiency) apart from 9-10 PT throwers. this gives who wear heavy armor more survivability than before. so to spawn with heavyarmor with x3 multiple or higher is a must for a tank.

we should state that this is a grinding system (and the journey to have +3 body +3 gloves +3 weapon +3 sec weapon actually is a grind). Having a bonus of +12 body armor, swords with +5 dmg +4 speed, barmaces that blockcrush shields like butter or 54dmg flamberges gives you that "little" edge in a clan tournament.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Remy on April 26, 2011, 07:24:37 pm
The more things change, the more they stay the same.  :P
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Torp on April 26, 2011, 07:57:29 pm
I think it is about time to write in here again.

I bought this game shortly before the new big patch, and i downloaded CRPG the same day because it simply seemed like a much better game, because it allwoed people to customize their characters and feel some kind of progress when they played (The Grind-factor)

I remember the hours of being a peasant, and to be honest, it wasnt much fun. I ran around in my light ninja armor with a low dmg katana trying to hurt those OP tincans, and it simply didnt work. I think i might have gotten bored and quit the game if it hadnt been for this new patch.

The patch allowed peasant to be able to get a few kills, but it still rewards grind with heirlooms, and that keeps giving me this feeling of progress on my main character (Grind-factor!), which i think is a must for any game.
I havr grinded 10 generations since the patch, changing build after most rtirements to get some change while playing, and it has worked out just fine. Diversity+progress+the requirement of personal skill are the trhee most important things in  game, because this prevents people from getting bored and quitting, and imo, CRPG now has it all.
You can get diversity by changing builds and items, and if you have tried it all, you can join a clan and focus on teamwork or you can try to do like phaz and get random grinders to work together.
You get progress by improving your character all the time, you level often (not like the old crpg where it happened once every year), and when you reach lvl 30 you get the pleasure of a new heirloomed item and an exp bonus, and then you get to lvl once more (i would like prestige items for high-gens though) :p
The requirement of personal skill is also a big part of CRPG, especially the new one. Pre-patch, it was easier to just buy heavy armor and big-ass weap, grind your way to lvl 50 and slay without any actual skill. That is not possible anymore, you have to really concentrate and try to make your team win in order to gain your multiplier and sue good items, and it is (almost) impossible to do well without being good.

This is pretty much what i think about CRPG
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: ManOfWar on April 26, 2011, 07:58:47 pm
Indeed there is still the damned grind, it needs to be disposed of
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 26, 2011, 08:11:26 pm
Indeed there is still the damned grind, it needs to be disposed of

the game could be better without the whole heirloom part... i say this even if i am gen 11.

because there is no better weapon among the top tiers.. every weapon have pros and cons...
but any stock weapon sucks versus a three times modified one.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: ManOfWar on April 26, 2011, 08:16:32 pm
the game could be better without the whole heirloom part... i say this even if i am gen 11.

because there is no better weapon among the top tiers.. every weapon have pros and cons...
but any stock weapon sucks versus a three times modified one.

Well Im gen 4 and Im getting shafted with this leveling speed :(
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Nasturtium on April 26, 2011, 08:39:29 pm
  I agree about the grind and heirlooms. This is my suggestion to help solve both: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4241.0.html
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Diavolo on April 26, 2011, 09:04:32 pm
  I agree about the grind and heirlooms. This is my suggestion to help solve both: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4241.0.html

I agree to this guys proposal ^^

I sort of liked the monthly-ish wipes that brought with itself peasant wars ans such though. However, the old system was extremely harsh on new players. I think the reason why Varyag thinks it was balanced and great was because he was one of those who played a lot and always was in the top levels and equipment department. Being low level was insanely hard (unless you power leveled a lot when everyone was peasants) In the beginning getting exp at all was tied to getting kills so to get up from peasant level when a lot of others were high level required you to be extremely ruthless on the killstealing and dont worry much about teamkilling (which often resulted in a massive negative exp and gold since you probably accidentaly hit some high level teammate).

This ^^might sound like cRPG sucked hard for low level people, but all the extreme struggle to rise from peasant to something not that crappy was what made the mod that exciting. Now, the mod is more similar to normal Warband multiplayer as its more focused on people being skilled at blocking and aiming and such, while in the beginning cRPG was a whole other game about tossing rocks like a baboon and following a high level with the hopes of being able to steal a kill now and then.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Xant on April 27, 2011, 12:02:01 am
The more things change, the more they stay the same.  :P

The more dogs there are on the courtyard, the more cats ride on top of them.

Next proverb tomorrow in our series of "Proverbs that make no sense."
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Polobow on April 27, 2011, 12:29:24 am
The more things change, the more they stay the same.  :P

What is this i don't even
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Nogar on April 27, 2011, 12:45:15 am
mennnn i dont care anymore about crpg i am in love so fuck yall!!!!!!!!! yeaaa
good luck losers!  :lol:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on April 27, 2011, 01:44:23 am
Varyag i really agree with u...i even miss Xp barn and the old Xp/Gold system, nowadays u only need to play like 1 hour with x5 and u can buy a really good armor, U dont even need to fight. Its a new thing called leeching that is really effective nowadays, i havent tried it out myself, but i see alot of other ppls doing it!

And yes cRPG have lost its magic, and as u said its prolly gonna lose u, and the same with me. I just dont find it fun lvling to lvl 31 and then retire and start all over again...i did this 3 times with my archer prepatch and i could have done it like 10 times i think but i didnt, cuz i really liked to improve my skills when i reached 1 more lvl!

another thing is the upkeep, maybe some of u find it OK, but i think its crap, where are all the old tincans!? the upkeep is too high so tincans dont excist anymore...

Where did everyone go after the "new" patch? most of them did GTX, but there are still some ppl playing.

 What happend to all the good archers? They suddenly disapeard because they was nerfed like 10000 times!

And now my history:

I started playing cRPG after a few weeks it was released, the time when Oberyn, Ptah, SunNjord used to top the leaderboards, i really looked up to these guys and thats the reason i started playing as a archer ( I know Oberyn wasnt a archer, he was CAV ), in the beginning i was going as a 2H and a 1H, i didnt know how to block and i was really bad at everything actually. Then i tried out archery and i liked it, i actually  loved it...then a new patch released and they had to reset out characters. That was the start for RagnarLodbroke the longbowman, i did put most of my points in archery and began to get a little good and once in a while i used to top the leaderboards, especially on the Nord village map. Then another reset happend, i think i was lvl 28 when that happend. Again i started to build a archer, this build was alot better than my last build, i topped the leaderboards pretty often, and i usally fought on my own (Nobody knew how to block, so the only thing i had to do was SPAM(HARD)) Then i think another reset came and this was the last one (chadz said) i joined the guards  a small clan in the beginning but we grew fast and in the end we had alot of members.( i think there were 3 clans back then, the mercs, the guards and the templars)

Me and tenny joined the guards the same day, and i think i was the fifth or the sixth member in the clan!

And now im getting really tired and i dont wanna tell anymore about my story. anyway, i had a really nice time playing this mod, and ill have to say thank u chadz (anyway u should actually thank me for the money i donated :P )

I know my english aint that good but im pretty sure most of u understand.

RagnarLodbroke

Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on April 27, 2011, 02:56:55 am
mennnn i dont care anymore about crpg i am in love so fuck yall!!!!!!!!! yeaaa
good luck losers!  :lol:
My gf loves Mount and Blade now. I realised it was a bad idea to introduce her to it after spending a night alone in my bed falling asleep watching her play campaign...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on April 27, 2011, 03:01:43 am
Oh yeah and that reminds me of the days when my build was a Jack-of-all-Trades, master of fuck all. I could run around and pick up nearly any weapon and use it very badly. And I started Strategus and was like "ZOMG you can make your own faction!" And renamed my "faction" The Annoying Bandits. I started a fight with some random bloke, and didn't turn-up to the battle cos of my gf. Then I participated in two other Strategus battles, one was like 300 except Spartans failed (I got my share of persian style deaths) and the other was a spawn massacre which naked people were piled up high and some even tried to escape the circle of death, but were hunted by cav, and I couldn't stop lolling over teamspeak. The american dudes thought I was on something. Spawn massacres are the funniest thing ever. Quite a few tks...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gorath on April 27, 2011, 07:18:38 am
that's false since is by far easier to retire now than before the patch. i spent 350k gold prepatch to retire to gen10 and the retirement was forced once a week. now people just retire every 2 days without spending money. now we have gen25+ people that was gen1 prepatch.

since the wpf stacking is canceled and who had 10 heirloom modifiers prepatch now have 1/3 of the total (i was gen10, 9 heirloom modified items and patch cut it to 3 heirloom mods) isn't fault of those "nerd abuz0rs of the broken retirement/wpf system who are gen 394509" as the highest was keshian with his gen15 archer.

time passes but nothing has changed... you keep spreading false informations like six months ago.

Gold is nothing.  Also, the whole "people just retire every 2 days without spending money" is complete bullshit.  Only if they were/are double digit gens already.  I refused to abuse the broken retirement wpf stacking bullshit from pre-patch, so my 4 main character's were all gen 1 when the patch hit.  ONE of my character just last night finally managed to retire a 3rd time and get his first masterwork weapon since the patch.  I haven't played any of my other characters because due to the grind I just don't have the time.  So unlike prepatch, where I could spend some gold that I DON'T FUCKING NEED BECAUSE I ALREADY OWN EVERYTHING I WANT and guarantee myself a retirement each week, now I fall further and further behind from the gen 10-25+ players out there who CAN retire every day or two.

Is that plain enough english for you, or do we need to break it down into monosyllabic grunting?  BTW:  The issue isn't the number of heirlooms that you pre-patch retirement abusers got after the patch (I know they were cut down to 1/3rd), it's that you started off at gen 10 by your own admission, meaning you were already getting 10 gen xp modifiers, allowing you to retire exponentially faster than the people that didn't abuse the broken system.  Re-roll a gen 1 and let me know how quickly you get to a generation level that allows you to retire every 2 days.  I've done the math, which is pretty basic, using a completely unrealistic 24 hour playtime scale and it's silly.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 27, 2011, 12:56:16 pm
Gold is nothing.  Also, the whole "people just retire every 2 days without spending money" is complete bullshit.  Only if they were/are double digit gens already.  I refused to abuse the broken retirement wpf stacking bullshit from pre-patch, so my 4 main character's were all gen 1 when the patch hit.  ONE of my character just last night finally managed to retire a 3rd time and get his first masterwork weapon since the patch.  I haven't played any of my other characters because due to the grind I just don't have the time.  So unlike prepatch, where I could spend some gold that I DON'T FUCKING NEED BECAUSE I ALREADY OWN EVERYTHING I WANT and guarantee myself a retirement each week, now I fall further and further behind from the gen 10-25+ players out there who CAN retire every day or two.

Is that plain enough english for you, or do we need to break it down into monosyllabic grunting?  BTW:  The issue isn't the number of heirlooms that you pre-patch retirement abusers got after the patch (I know they were cut down to 1/3rd), it's that you started off at gen 10 by your own admission, meaning you were already getting 10 gen xp modifiers, allowing you to retire exponentially faster than the people that didn't abuse the broken system.  Re-roll a gen 1 and let me know how quickly you get to a generation level that allows you to retire every 2 days.  I've done the math, which is pretty basic, using a completely unrealistic 24 hour playtime scale and it's silly.

not our fault if you're too lazy to retire... if you think is too late, well... shit happens  :wink:

now i know that this developing system makes you rage/cry-rivers... that's why i love it.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Varyag on April 27, 2011, 01:54:35 pm
Quote
This ^^might sound like cRPG sucked hard for low level people, but all the extreme struggle to rise from peasant to something not that crappy was what made the mod that exciting. Now, the mod is more similar to normal Warband multiplayer as its more focused on people being skilled at blocking and aiming and such, while in the beginning cRPG was a whole other game about tossing rocks like a baboon and following a high level with the hopes of being able to steal a kill now and then.

Exactly what I experienced myself. And tbh this was the biggest fun of my cRPG "career". The real challenge is gone :(
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Momo on April 27, 2011, 02:08:33 pm
Gold is nothing.  Also, the whole "people just retire every 2 days without spending money" is complete bullshit.  Only if they were/are double digit gens already.  I refused to abuse the broken retirement wpf stacking bullshit from pre-patch, so my 4 main character's were all gen 1 when the patch hit.  ONE of my character just last night finally managed to retire a 3rd time and get his first masterwork weapon since the patch.  I haven't played any of my other characters because due to the grind I just don't have the time.  So unlike prepatch, where I could spend some gold that I DON'T FUCKING NEED BECAUSE I ALREADY OWN EVERYTHING I WANT and guarantee myself a retirement each week, now I fall further and further behind from the gen 10-25+ players out there who CAN retire every day or two.

Is that plain enough english for you, or do we need to break it down into monosyllabic grunting?  BTW:  The issue isn't the number of heirlooms that you pre-patch retirement abusers got after the patch (I know they were cut down to 1/3rd), it's that you started off at gen 10 by your own admission, meaning you were already getting 10 gen xp modifiers, allowing you to retire exponentially faster than the people that didn't abuse the broken system.  Re-roll a gen 1 and let me know how quickly you get to a generation level that allows you to retire every 2 days.  I've done the math, which is pretty basic, using a completely unrealistic 24 hour playtime scale and it's silly.


I hate people who cries about the retirement. You had the chance to retire (EVERYONE HAD), a lots of people saw the advantage in it so they did it. Don't cry because you were too lazy or you didn't have time (that's not your fault) but the others HAD time. People who retire every 2 days, in my opinion they deserve it because they WORKED for those gens.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Laufknoten on April 27, 2011, 02:13:47 pm
Exactly what I experienced myself. And tbh this was the biggest fun of my cRPG "career". The real challenge is gone :(
I think being peasant is the most funny part about cRPG. Everytime I reach lvl 30 the game starts to get boring for me and I make a new char or even retire at lvl 30, cause it's just no fun anymore. Thats why I never made it to lvl 31 - and I play this mod for a long time. Now you play 2-3 hours after you made your char and you're not a peasant anymore. When you make a strenght built you can even get many kills in the early stages. I loved the peasantry on the servers and it's was fun to chase them with my elegant poleaxe. :D
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Sayton on April 27, 2011, 02:48:28 pm
Reply to OP.

I played cRPG when it first became available to the public, quit when it got wiped, and then started again now. I've got to say it's a lot better now than it was.

The important part of a skill system isn't the grind itself, but the specialization it allows for. The grind and sense of achievement is still necessary, but I think cRPG has found a nice balance.
It still takes weeks to get a generation 3 character if you're not no-lifing it. At some point you have to reach the "endgame", or the vets would always be better than new players, which in turn would decrease the influx of new players. I mean who wants to play a game where they will always be gimped?

I just hope Strategus gets up and running soon, because it sounds like the ultimate endgame content.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gorath on April 27, 2011, 04:03:15 pm

I hate people who cries about the retirement. You had the chance to retire (EVERYONE HAD), a lots of people saw it was broken so they abused it. Don't cry because you refused to abuse a broken system.

Fixed.

There should have been a full wipe, instead of the concessions that were made in order to reward the players exploiting what they knew was insanely broken.  Anyways, keep defending the bullshit left over from how fucked up retirement was/is.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Nasturtium on April 27, 2011, 04:08:34 pm
Not to beat a dead donkey here, but if players could trade in heirlooms for rare customish gear, there wouldnt be so many damn +3 weapons out there. Not that this is a cure all for retirement, but it could be a bandaid stopgap, and fun.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 27, 2011, 04:29:20 pm
Wow those "being a peasent is the best part of crpg yea!" posts are hilarious.

You must be retarded or mazohistic or both if you are saying that.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Momo on April 27, 2011, 05:33:35 pm
Fixed.

There should have been a full wipe, instead of the concessions that were made in order to reward the players exploiting what they knew was insanely broken.  Anyways, keep defending the bullshit left over from how fucked up retirement was/is.

You know what's BULLSHIT? That you want to wipe other peoples work because you can't accept the fact that you couldn't keep up with them. Your problem!
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Radix on April 27, 2011, 06:26:37 pm
Wipe will be needed sooner or leyter. Every RPG needs wipe at some point.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Torp on April 27, 2011, 06:33:19 pm
Wipe will be needed sooner or leyter. Every RPG needs wipe at some point.

nooooooooooooooooo! *To be continued*

No wipe! i will not be able to bear seeing my char go back to lvl 1 without any heirlooms! :(

oooooooooooooooooooooooooo *Continued*


nah, tbh, i agree
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 27, 2011, 06:38:29 pm
Wow those "being a peasent is the best part of crpg yea!" posts are hilarious.

You must be retarded or mazohistic or both if you are saying that.


You must take things too seriously or are a very bad player (well, you're not). I enjoyed peasant times because it's the time when you are considered as useless and everything you do is much harder. Then doing anything useful is really satisfying. You know, the best meal is when you are hungry.

As everything else, it's not funny after a while, but still needed to make the game complete.


Actually I would like a new wipe. We had a broken retirement system (for the wpf bonus essentially, not the xp bonus since it was way longer to retire than now and was limited by the money you could get), then an even more broken one (not a single fucking limit except level 31, a limit that grows thinner each time you retire) with v212. The first one saw a few people reaching gen 15. Now in much less time we have gen 30 and more, if we let this go on without changing the system, next month we will likely have some people being gen 50. So many errors where done when the system was devised that I don't think any soft cure can fix things. At least resetting all gen and heirloom stuff data when the system changes.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Bothersome_Aldryk on April 27, 2011, 07:03:30 pm
Heh. People acting as if Retirement is some god-given right, earned through blood sweat and tears, that makes you a better player. Those of us with high generations played a lot and retired a lot. That's the end of it. We didn't do something incredible to achieve our gens. This gen elitism is bullshit, from the mouth of a high gen player. I would support a change to the retirement system that didn't clearly favor people with higher gens. At the very least 0% change exp gain per retirement would make sense, IMO. People shouldn't be able to retire faster once they retire.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Phazey on April 27, 2011, 07:03:53 pm
Wow those "being a peasent is the best part of crpg yea!" posts are hilarious.

You must be retarded or masochistic or both if you are saying that.
For me, it's a combination of both masochism and nostalgia: i remember spawning in cRPG. It was a big battle, EU1 i think and i was all like: "wow, awesome... look at that cavalry and those archers. Whoa i can hear the arrows whistle around me and the drone of the hooves. Wow, look at that heavy cavalry guy... looks like he's heading toward me... wow, cool! He's lowering his lance!
*tries to jump out of the way*
*gets skewerd*
*proceeds to spectate an epic 50 vs 50 battle*
Cooooool! I like this game. "
Those first weeks i played cRPG was really fun and challenging. I didn't know squat about manual blocking and stuff, but who cares? I had my cheap and fragile shield, i could follow the mob. It was, and still is, great fun! The sense of danger, the exitement of the first kills... the steep learning curve. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 27, 2011, 07:08:20 pm
Thats just a nostalgic view trough pink glasses. The fact is that this system is much more user friendly.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 27, 2011, 07:10:08 pm
Heh. People acting as if Retirement is some god-given right, earned through blood sweat and tears, that makes you a better player. Those of us with high generations played a lot and retired a lot. That's the end of it. We didn't do something incredible to achieve our gens. This gen elitism is bullshit, from the mouth of a high gen player. I would support a change to the retirement system that didn't clearly favor people with higher gens. At the very least 0% change exp gain per retirement would make sense, IMO. People shouldn't be able to retire faster once they retire.

A clear voice of reason. +1 for you, good sir.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 27, 2011, 07:21:25 pm
Thats just a nostalgic view trough pink glasses. The fact is that this system is much more user friendly.

Ho... you want user-friendliness ?

I have other games that might suit you better, like : "push this button as many times as you can", you know...

If you can get everything now now now, it's failed. If you want everything now now now, you failed, or you are still a kid. There is no game where there is no frustration, the bad creates the good... It's just human.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 27, 2011, 07:23:54 pm
Ho... you want user-friendliness ?

I have other games that might suit you better, like : "push this button as many times as you can", you know...

If you can get everything now now now, it's failed. If you want everything now now now, you failed, or you are still a kid. There is no game where there is no frustration, the bad creates the good... It's just human.

There is a difference between user friendly and instant gratification. Stop using absurd twists for arguements ffs.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 27, 2011, 08:08:01 pm
You made a story out of my two sentences, perhaps i was a bit vauge.

Ho... you want user-friendliness ?


Yes

Quote
I have other games that might suit you better, like : "push this button as many times as you can", you know...

I didnt mean easy gameplay i meant an easier start, less peasent time and more time when you fell like you can make a difference etc.

Quote
If you can get everything now now now, it's failed. If you want everything now now now, you failed, or you are still a kid. There is no game where there is no frustration, the bad creates the good... It's just human.

I have what i  need after a fair ammount of gameplay ( mw danish and  lordly gloves) and i probably wont retire next get, ill try to hit 32. And when i do that ill just try to improve my skills in duel servers, play tournaments, play with my buddies and have fun. Maybe roll a few alts, play strat if it ever comes out.

There is plenty of stuff to do in this game besides grind. I dont know why people think the game is over when you hit high gens and get your mw items.

About the frustration part, tbh this game is one of the most if not the most frustrating game i have ever played. (especialy at the beggining) And i was realy frustrated at my start because i started a week or so before the big patch and i couldnt do anything but die. Thats what i meant by more user friendly - you get the feeling that you matter faster



Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: [ptx] on April 27, 2011, 08:26:42 pm
People that say they "worked" for their high level/gen pre-patch (implying cRPG is all work, no fun) should get slapped across the face real hard.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: ManOfWar on April 27, 2011, 08:31:11 pm
People that say they "worked" for their high level/gen pre-patch (implying cRPG is all work, no fun) should get slapped across the face real hard.

At times it seems like work, especially at lower levels...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: [ptx] on April 27, 2011, 08:38:18 pm
Then perhaps it is time to take a break. I know i've taken one.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Momo on April 27, 2011, 08:38:47 pm
People that say they "worked" for their high level/gen pre-patch (implying cRPG is all work, no fun) should get slapped across the face real hard.

Yeah it's not fun when you steal all of your equips.  I WORKED for them not U! So if I want to crush heads with my 3x heirloomed mace I'll just crush heads cos I deserve it!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: ManOfWar on April 27, 2011, 08:40:14 pm
Then perhaps it is time to take a break. I know i've taken one.


I havent retired in weeks, i just did a day or 2 ago, the low level grinding is the absolute worst since you cant rly do anything, there needs to be a super speedy level up to lvl 20 or something- also im gen 4 now

I know a lot of people turn away from crpg due to the initial grind
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on April 27, 2011, 10:21:24 pm
Then perhaps it is time to take a break. I know i've taken one.

PTX!!!!!
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gnjus on April 27, 2011, 10:56:56 pm
Does playing at work count as "working hard" ?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Jacko on April 27, 2011, 11:27:08 pm
...Or hardly working?


 :lol:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Strider on April 27, 2011, 11:28:23 pm
I agree fully with Veryag. I too played crpg since it first came out. I remember the dedication, intenseness, and core skill of the players and their characters. But now there is nothing to keep us wanting to play. We can do anything with our characters much too easily. Change from from a fully heirloomed archer to a fully heirloomed xbowmen in 2 months. There is no dedication to build your character up to your desired skills. You cannot possibly become a 24 str, 24 agi 2Her or do any other epic dream build because the cap is at lvl 35. (almost impossible to get to anyways). At crpg's first times I saw the most skilled people with sweet gear and skills and I desired to be like them. Now there is no desire to play crpg.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: ManOfWar on April 27, 2011, 11:35:39 pm
I agree fully with Veryag. I too played crpg since it first came out. I remember the dedication, intenseness, and core skill of the players and their characters. But now there is nothing to keep us wanting to play. We can do anything with our characters much too easily. Change from from a fully heirloomed archer to a fully heirloomed xbowmen in 2 months. There is no dedication to build your character up to your desired skills. You cannot possibly become a 24 str, 24 agi 2Her or do any other epic dream build because the cap is at lvl 35. (almost impossible to get to anyways). At crpg's first times I saw the most skilled people with sweet gear and skills and I desired to be like them. Now there is no desire to play crpg.

By jov your right, I do remember a time when I was like that..


Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Teeth on April 27, 2011, 11:37:36 pm
I agree fully with Veryag. I too played crpg since it first came out. I remember the dedication, intenseness, and core skill of the players and their characters. But now there is nothing to keep us wanting to play. We can do anything with our characters much too easily. Change from from a fully heirloomed archer to a fully heirloomed xbowmen in 2 months. There is no dedication to build your character up to your desired skills. You cannot possibly become a 24 str, 24 agi 2Her or do any other epic dream build because the cap is at lvl 35. (almost impossible to get to anyways). At crpg's first times I saw the most skilled people with sweet gear and skills and I desired to be like them. Now there is no desire to play crpg.
24 agi 2hander is definetly reachable and a good build too. There are still people with sweet skills, actually way better skills than back then. So you can still desire to be like them. Thats my main goal when playing crpg, become very skilled. A lot of the people agreeing with the OP should indeed take off their nostalgia glasses off and compare the game now and back then a little more objectively. Ofcourse playing with a limited community where you know everyone is more fun than playing with a load of strangers. That is where clans come in.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Jambi on April 27, 2011, 11:58:10 pm
Im bored of CRPG....

Been looking around for other mods/games. But i found out, its all shit.

CRPG is just the least smelly heap of shit around :wink:

If it wasnt for the Mercs...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Casimir on April 28, 2011, 12:01:13 am
Bah half the people cry about not being able to make super high level characters while the other half cry about not being bale to fight people as a peasant.

Whats to be done?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Jambi on April 28, 2011, 12:48:36 am
Bah half the people cry about not being able to make super high level characters while the other half cry about not being bale to fight people as a peasant.

Whats to be done?

L2P ?  :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 28, 2011, 01:14:31 am
I know a lot of people turn away from crpg due to the initial grind

Good for them. cRPG probably isn't what they wanted it was. Everyone started as a peasant and still we are all here, normal humans, having fun playing a videogame. I don't see how it was such a traumatic thing to start as a peasant. If it is removed (it partially already is), the community we got will continue to get worse. It used to be way over the standards.

We lost the magic of the first decent weapon, I remember when I just bought my shortened voulge and started to make kills. Now every newcomer is peasant during one or two hours then it's finished. He doesn't even have the time to feel how the game changes along with very slow and small level and equipment improves. If it's too fast, the magic doesn't work. People used to be a lot more attached to their builds and chars before the latest patch. Now as everything comes very fast, you can just change and make the latest trend EZ mode build (throwing hybrid at the moment), literally forgetting your old build.

As the only important thing is the multiplier, many people will "sell their soul" to a cheap, effective and completly unoriginal build. Nothing is hard to get anyway.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Blondin on April 28, 2011, 01:45:19 am
We lost the magic of the first decent weapon, I remember when I just bought my shortened voulge and started to make kills.

Ofc you lost this feeling, and he will never return, you played and abused cRPG in every sense :) now it's nostalgia  :( (this is not directed against you personnaly ofc)
So what do you miss? is to be a peasant or be better than most players because you spent more time than them (lvl 40+ plated HA for example, n'est-ce pas?  :D)

And who told you the guy who starts to play and who just bought his first good weapon did not feel the same way that you?

Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Jambi on April 28, 2011, 08:36:25 am
When the patch comes out... it wont be worth it too grind anymore, or spend too much time on CRPG

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Vicious666 on April 28, 2011, 04:03:04 pm
the POINT is that fortunately we have a level cap (psssst and i say its good.. even if it is too low.) BUT some ridicolous no lifer kids like vicious666 grinded full heirloom sets just to hope to be the 2011 olwen-wannabe hero.

So or we put a GENERATION cap fairly low (6 heirlooms seems fair... a masterwork weapon + a lordly body armor, or whatever.) or we get rid of the level cap too.

now its nonsense to have a level cap but hiding the grind behind the generation route. i saw arrow glancing/bouncing on high gen full plate players.

if we had level 42+ wpf stackers before, now we have heavy tanks with 80+ armor.

and guess why crpg topped near 600+ players in the same time prepatch and now hardly reach 350.


i find this very lolstastic,  considering that you where at best   a mediocre 2hander, until you decided to grind 10 generation and use a  TOTAL NO SKILL weapon with pierce dmg+crushthrue.+wpf stack  (morningstar)  than again  is loltastic  that you exactly disappear  from the game       when your  OP build is no more.  instead adapt like i have done,  and now you complain that i made many gen   exactly like you do, except that  i not crushtrue ppl with  300 wpf.

I was a good player since this game started  always on top list, and every time this game changed i adapted myself, for remain at top , i not was good for a patch like you did, becouse  i am using an uber crushthrue pierce weapon., the fact is that even now after 5-6 months that you not see mee, you still talk about me, when i barely remember you.  except for be a mediocre 2hander.

games changes,  you are only a victim of evolution.     other play adapt. and manage to stay on top, becouse they rely on skill not on  the OP weapon of the moment. , 2h still the faster weapon in game,  and  player like Bjord and Phyrex are superior to the top  1h+shielders by a big margin , thx to lolstab, range, dmg, and animations.


you seams only a  boy who broken his toy, and since now have no  more time or stamina for grind more gen,  point the fingers on others, for blame his own incapacity.
.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Babelfish on April 28, 2011, 04:08:41 pm
^lulz it happened again :P

I do agree on most of your post, some parts i disagree with (you being good for one) :)


Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Blondin on April 28, 2011, 05:13:34 pm
I guess many lost hope, but the final goal is Strategus, gen and heirloom will not be usefull in Strat...

Btw i don't find heirloom op, that doesn't unbalance the game, anyone can be xxgen with full heirlooms, he's still killable. I smile when i steal heirloom from the guy i just killed.

But again this will not change anything in Strategus...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: 7000bc on April 29, 2011, 02:12:11 am
Hi folks,

To start with, this is not a rage or drama thread (I hope). It’s the voice of despaired.

In this thread I will share with you my thoughts and concerns on the current state of cRPG project. To start with, I will present my cRPG experience, just to show that I have a right to say.

I started playing cRPG the next week it came public. I was the second player that bought horse in cRPG, which was immensely expensive at that time.  I am a member of Mercs clan. I am a donator. Also, this week I was permanently banned on all EU servers for attacking friendly tincans with my LVL 1 CHAR ARMED WITH KNIFE! Yes, I am a dangerous man!

It gave me time to think about what’s going on in cRPG.

Ok, enough about me, I shall get to the topic. What we now call the “early cRPG beta” (and what I consider the only true cRPG) attracted me in the first place with the idea that I could have a persistent character THAT IS CONSTANTLY IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING. I.e. every time you levelled up at that time, or bought new piece of equip, was like a holiday, a celebration if you wish. Huge amounts of joy, and I am very grateful to chadz for these moments! Levelling was very slow, items were very expensive, cRPG life was full of meaning. The dev team is constantly talking about balance, nerfs, rebalance, tweaks. IMHO the “early beta” paradoxically was the most balanced and joyful cRPG experience I had so far. You may disagree with that, but THAT’S MY IMHO.

So, where are we now? Where is that CONSTANTLY IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING thing now? Well, pretty much it’s gone. As soon as you hit lvl 31 (and for me it takes about one week and a half), the IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING part is over, since I can afford pretty much everything, every equip. I am not a cRPG millionaire, but I have 200k gold and masterwork primary weapon. As for levelling, as you know, lvl 35 is the cap, and there is no big difference between lvls 31 and 35. So, personally I kept playing only for the sake of funny fights, 3 vs 1 fights I can win, for adrenalin. Now tell me what is the big difference between current cRPG and Warband? In both games players have same levels, same weapons (albeit a bit smaller variability in Warband), same armors. And this is very sad. I mean, c’mon, when was the last time we saw large scale PEASANT WARS?

Another thing that bothers me is the ease with which you can be teamkilled and can teamkill yourself. No real penalties. IMHO this is a shame. Now if you teamkill someone, your whole team suffers (as if it is their fault), while before only you were personally responsible for TKs. And responsibility was harsh, and for good. I would be glad to see the old TK penalty system back.

To conclude, cRPG is clearly loosing it’s magic, and this is sad. And probably very soon cRPG will lose me (which will make some of you, my old virtual enemies, very happy, but I really don’t care).

I hope this testimony will trigger some deep reflection in general public and the dev team. And no disrespect meant.

Well said.  :cry: I will be happy when Strat happens though.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 29, 2011, 02:43:10 am

i find this very lolstastic,  considering that you where at best   a mediocre 2hander, until you decided to grind 10 generation and use a  TOTAL NO SKILL weapon with pierce dmg+crushthrue.+wpf stack  (morningstar)  than again  is loltastic  that you exactly disappear  from the game       when your  OP build is no more.  instead adapt like i have done,  and now you complain that i made many gen   exactly like you do, except that  i not crushtrue ppl with  300 wpf.

I was a good player since this game started  always on top list, and every time this game changed i adapted myself, for remain at top , i not was good for a patch like you did, becouse  i am using an uber crushthrue pierce weapon., the fact is that even now after 5-6 months that you not see mee, you still talk about me, when i barely remember you.  except for be a mediocre 2hander.

games changes,  you are only a victim of evolution.     other play adapt. and manage to stay on top, becouse they rely on skill not on  the OP weapon of the moment. , 2h still the faster weapon in game,  and  player like Bjord and Phyrex are superior to the top  1h+shielders by a big margin , thx to lolstab, range, dmg, and animations.


you seams only a  boy who broken his toy, and since now have no  more time or stamina for grind more gen,  point the fingers on others, for blame his own incapacity.
.

i didn't quit because patch removed blockcrush from morningstar. i quit because my daughter born in december. and she needs me a lot more than your little "i'm a good player... a merc." crpg world.

go on and provoke... you'll be only muted.over and over little troll born in the nineties.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on April 29, 2011, 07:00:17 am
i didn't quit because patch removed blockcrush from morningstar. i quit because my daughter born in december. and she needs me a lot more than your little "i'm a good player... a merc." crpg world.

go on and provoke... you'll be only muted.over and over little troll born in the nineties.
Congratulations. Btw the 90's were a COOL time to be born. IMO :D
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 29, 2011, 01:54:18 pm
Congratulations. Btw the 90's were a COOL time to be born. IMO :D

thanks a lot. just some kids don't understand that there are other things beside sleeping in a classroom and the whole rest of the time play crpg.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Wrenaq_Lars on April 29, 2011, 02:37:10 pm
Only one cool decade to be born in and that was the 70s :D, to live thru the 90s was cool what I can remember of it :)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on May 01, 2011, 03:23:57 am
It would be a shame to see the veterans of this mod go. I do miss following epic knights round and being useless, poking into melee with pitchforks, strangely enough. But I am going to stick with it and see where it goes, unless a) Strategus is confirmed to be removed or b)Strategus comes back and cRPG is crap to me. But I am optimistic.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Felagunda on May 01, 2011, 03:30:58 am
Amen. It's very true that cRPG was a hell of a lot of fun when it first came out... until it got broken. But it wasn't broken by patches, it was broken by players, and it really didn't take very long.

Stupidest fucking statement ever you must not have played before retirement was added.  Nothing was broken about the game back then.  Sure things get nuts (nuts not even broken then) at about lvl 40 but all that would been needed was a lvl 37 lvl cap or so.  Those people that were even near that high back were so few like what 1-3 people?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on May 01, 2011, 03:44:50 am
Stupidest fucking statement ever you must not have played before retirement was added.  Nothing was broken about the game back then.  Sure things get nuts (nuts not even broken then) at about lvl 40 but all that would been needed was a lvl 37 lvl cap or so.  Those people that were even near that high back were so few like what 1-3 people?

Gee, but you are a presumptuous git. As a matter of fact, I've played pretty much every version of cRPG (not counting quick patches and dev builds) since the very first closed alpha test. Things were broken all right, that's why chadz added retirement in the first place. Unfortunately, he didn't foresee the new problems it would lead to, and the saga continues... but hey, why am I talking to you anyway, you clearly have all the answers, and the only opinion that matters is your own. :lol:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Felagunda on May 01, 2011, 04:39:58 am
Gee, but you are a presumptuous git. As a matter of fact, I've played pretty much every version of cRPG (not counting quick patches and dev builds) since the very first closed alpha test. Things were broken all right, that's why chadz added retirement in the first place. Unfortunately, he didn't foresee the new problems it would lead to, and the saga continues... but hey, why am I talking to you anyway, you clearly have all the answers, and the only opinion that matters is your own. :lol:

LoL he didn't need to forsee them he had Takeda clan come to him multiple times in IRC and tell him about what the retirement would do to really "break" the game.  We all just got trolled for our warnings.  We even had fucking numbers in excel and shit. So STFU everything you say now is void.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: chadz on May 01, 2011, 04:47:13 am
Stupidest fucking statement ever you must not have played before retirement was added.  Nothing was broken about the game back then.  Sure things get nuts (nuts not even broken then) at about lvl 40 but all that would been needed was a lvl 37 lvl cap or so.  Those people that were even near that high back were so few like what 1-3 people?

we need that guy in the game balance team asap! Hundreds of tincans running around, killing peasants, with wpf of about 300 per weapon.

Sounds fun? Sure thing. I'd play it!
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on May 01, 2011, 04:52:55 am
LoL he didn't need to forsee them he had Takeda clan come to him multiple times in IRC and tell him about what the retirement would do to really "break" the game.  We all just got trolled for our warnings.  We even had fucking numbers in excel and shit. So STFU everything you say now is void.

What, you mean it wasn't already? Looks like I really blew my chance at your approval! Never mind the fact that for all its flaws, the retirement patch did a lot to fix earlier problems that were even worse. Clearly your in-depth knowledge qualifies you to make completely objective judgements about the mod. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Banok on May 01, 2011, 04:58:00 am
we need that guy in the game balance team asap! Hundreds of tincans running around, killing peasants, with wpf of about 300 per weapon.

Sounds fun? Sure thing. I'd play it!

are you denying that it was your idea to inherit wpf?

lol
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Felagunda on May 01, 2011, 05:00:59 am
What, you mean it wasn't already? Looks like I really blew my chance at your approval! Never mind the fact that for all its flaws, the retirement patch did a lot to fix earlier problems that were even worse. Clearly your in-depth knowledge qualifies you to make completely objective judgements about the mod. :rolleyes:

How is objective that retiring and stacking wpf was not worse than the system before it?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: chadz on May 01, 2011, 05:03:45 am
are you denying that it was your idea to inherit wpf?

lol
Not at all.

I'm saying I fucked gameplay up from the very beginning and tried to fix it by adding layers to it. Most had the desired effect, with undesired side effects. Which needed another layers.

I have no problem admitting that I did fuck things up. That's why I revert stuff.

But pretending the game would have survived with the (very) old system is not only naive, it borders retardedness.

edit: just to be clear, i knew wpf inheriting would get out of hands sooner or later. I did it because I thought heirlooms alone wouldn't be enough incentive to retire. I wanted people to retire to lessen the tincans and even the playing field.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on May 01, 2011, 05:12:17 am
How is objective that retiring and stacking wpf was not worse than the system before it?

Obviously it isn't objective, but I think it's still the case -- probably should have said "worse in my opinion" or something. Point is, you're making a complete ass of yourself with all this pointless rage and bluster, and you're pushing the line for a flame warning.

Retirement was broken with the WPF stacking, yes, because chadz wasn't ready for the extreme grinding and strategus payouts some people would do to keep retiring. He probably should have been, but it still fixed things for a while, and the situation before was just as bad as at the end of the first retirement patch. Fact is, it's a Sisyphean task to build a system that players can't abuse somehow, but at least he's trying.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Felagunda on May 01, 2011, 05:21:47 am
Fact is, it's a Sisyphean task to build a system that players can't abuse somehow, but at least he's trying.

Playing a game you like alot for a long period of time and progessing in that game isn't abusing or grinding it's called enjoyment.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on May 01, 2011, 05:25:16 am
Oh, sure, it takes all kinds. I'm sure retiring 30 times to get just that little extra edge over the other players is somebody's idea of fun. But the fact is, everybody can't like everything together, and chadz is the one who decides what goes in the end. Anybody else claiming to know what cRPG is really about or insisting they represent the voice of the whole community is just talking out of his or her ass.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Felagunda on May 01, 2011, 05:27:46 am
Anybody else claiming to know what cRPG is really about or insisting they represent the voice of the whole community is just talking out of his or her ass.

What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Topsnus on May 01, 2011, 05:28:43 am

edit: just to be clear, i knew wpf inheriting would get out of hands sooner or later. I did it because I thought heirlooms alone wouldn't be enough incentive to retire. I wanted people to retire to lessen the tincans and even the playing field.

Which would have worked, except that chadz underestimated the players of cRPG. They will go through generations so quickly that you will never see them at lower levels.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: okiN on May 01, 2011, 05:28:58 am
What are you talking about?

I take it you haven't read much of this thread. Or your own posts, at that. :P
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Felagunda on May 01, 2011, 05:30:28 am
I take it you haven't read much of this thread. Or your own posts, at that. :P
  I read up to page 5 and never saw anyone speaking for the whole community I saw people speaking for themselves.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Topsnus on May 01, 2011, 05:31:52 am
The best way to fix the plate predicament would have been to remove plate. All of the weight, and upkeep, and prof lowering systems are just annoying. Does anyone remember how much fun the mod was before plate was added. I don't remember anyone complaining about armor.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Felagunda on May 01, 2011, 05:32:19 am
Which would have worked, except that chadz underestimated the players of cRPG. They will go through generations so quickly that you will never see them at lower levels.

That's interesting I remember we Takeda came to him with some excles sheets 2 weeks after the retirement patch and he said it'll never happen.  Then proceeded to troll us after he denied that wpf stacking wouldn't happen multiple times.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Felagunda on May 01, 2011, 05:35:08 am
we need that guy in the game balance team asap! Hundreds of tincans running around, killing peasants, with wpf of about 300 per weapon.

Sounds fun? Sure thing. I'd play it!


BTW chadz who had anywhere near 300 wpf any one weapon before you did the patch that added retirement?

Because I played alot back then and I never found a person I found it hard to block at all.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on May 01, 2011, 05:43:13 am


BTW chadz who had anywhere near 300 wpf any one weapon before you did the patch that added retirement?

Because I played alot back then and I never found a person I found it hard to block at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

Anyway, I had 210 wpf in a single weapon type, and I used plate. It was obviously a ridiculous situation.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Topsnus on May 01, 2011, 05:45:49 am
Best solution is to drop retirement, return to old grind system and money system, and drop plate.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gorath on May 01, 2011, 05:48:22 am
Best solution is to drop retirement, return to old grind system and money system, and drop plate.

^  Not a bad idea.

Also:  Soft level cap of 35 like now.  35 is a good solid number for "endgame".  Buff, but not redonkulously OP.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Topsnus on May 01, 2011, 05:54:19 am
^  Not a bad idea.

Also:  Soft level cap of 35 like now.  35 is a good solid number for "endgame".  Buff, but not redonkulously OP.
This could work. And the incentive to retire (assuming the system is left in, but with absolutely no in game benefits) would be a solid ranking system. Integrate it into the leaderboard in game, the forums, everything. And make it so that your stats freeze when you hit the level cap. So if you want to be number 1, you have to keep retiring. I bet that would keep many of the players that play ridiculous amounts retiring.

The important thing is to get back to the old days, where you cared about your equipment because you earned it, unlike now, where you can have the same amount and type of weapons as a level 5 as if you are a level 30. Unless of course you are one of those people that actually wins the match for their team, but they are in the minority.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on May 01, 2011, 06:02:07 am
Best solution is to drop retirement, return to old grind system and money system, and drop plate.

I dunno...

Retirement as a concept is a good one I think. It allows people to respec (without letting them auto-correct a bad build - making mistakes and trying out new stuff is part of the fun of character design), and its got a certain RP quality about it - having an heir to your line and all that. It probably needs a few tweaks, and I'd like to see some other applications for it, not just as an alternative to level grind (maybe some functions in strategus). But generally the concept itself is quite fun and adds to the mod.

Also, I'd hate for plate to be removed. It isn't OP (due to speed penalties and upkeep costs), and the more items in cRPG the better. Some people like to occasionally dress as a gothic knight, so let them. And when strategus comes, I imagine it will have its tactical uses there.

At the moment, while its taking some time to perfect, I think the mod is moving toward a situation that properly balances RPG and grind. There are bound to be mistakes along the way as new stuff is tested and fixed, but slowly its getting better at allowing character customisation and leveling without forcing grinding and particularly abusable grind.

EDIT: though I totally agree about the equipment (the feeling that you treasure what you have because you earnt it etc - I just don't think it should be earnt through grind).
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: EponiCo on May 01, 2011, 06:04:54 am
Simplest solution, really. Make a cap on the benefits you can gain from retiring. On their own (i.e. masterwork sword or +10% now +3% more xp) they are certainly not gamebreaking. Only when you stack them like mad, but tbh you can just never retire and get level 40 if you are reallly pushing it.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Topsnus on May 01, 2011, 06:12:25 am
I dunno...

Retirement as a concept is a good one I think. It allows people to respec (without letting them auto-correct a bad build - making mistakes and trying out new stuff is part of the fun of character design), and its got a certain RP quality about it - having an heir to your line and all that. It probably needs a few tweaks, and I'd like to see some other applications for it, not just as an alternative to level grind (maybe some functions in strategus). But generally the concept itself is quite fun and adds to the mod.

Also, I'd hate for plate to be removed. It isn't OP (due to speed penalties and upkeep costs), and the more items in cRPG the better. Some people like to occasionally dress as a gothic knight, so let them. And when strategus comes, I imagine it will have its tactical uses there.

At the moment, while its taking some time to perfect, I think the mod is moving toward a situation that properly balances RPG and grind. There are bound to be mistakes along the way as new stuff is tested and fixed, but slowly its getting better at allowing character customisation and leveling without forcing grinding and particularly abusable grind.

EDIT: though I totally agree about the equipment (the feeling that you treasure what you have because you earnt it etc - I just don't think it should be earnt through grind).
it will always be earned through grind, that is the nature of the game. The question is whether that money gets you a weapon and you feel that you earned it, or whether all weapons are available and you simply have to upkeep them.

I think retirement should stay, but completely cut off from gameplay, as a rankings thing. So that people have the ability to reset, and it might even make them look good in the ranks, but they won't become too powerful.

But plate has to be removed. If it is about looks, then all the armor ratings can simply be dropped so that plate seems gone, but it has to go. I played this game back when the server reset ever 30 min, there were like 3-5 maps, and 50 players on a good day. There was no plate, and it honestly was better because of it.

The game should aspire to have as much content as possible. But it is very important that the gameply be preserved while adding items.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Felagunda on May 01, 2011, 06:32:17 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

Anyway, I had 210 wpf in a single weapon type, and I used plate. It was obviously a ridiculous situation.

lol before retirement patch?  And 210 in a single weapon type is a long way from 300 in every weapon type.  210 is still easy to block with most weapons.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Topsnus on May 01, 2011, 06:56:46 am
lol before retirement patch?  And 210 in a single weapon type is a long way from 300 in every weapon type.  210 is still easy to block with most weapons.
wow, there was alot of wrong in that statement.
210 is never easy to block unless you have a sizeable ping advantage. And the whole link to hyperbole was to say that the 300 was an exaggerated number, not a real one.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: MeevarTheMighty on May 01, 2011, 08:03:58 am
Another dismal take on the situation: When the "early beta" crpg ended, the Australian crpg community also ended. The old server would often have a couple of dozen people still playing at 6AM, while current numbers seem to flicker a couple of players around constant zero at all hours. The oceanic crpg clans are no more and half the playerbase has migrated to native. The other half probably died of sorrow or play some other silly games now. With the silly auto-gold system, people can replicate my characters in a matter of days, so it's hard to make anything unique or interesting. It's also pretty hard to feel at home in a server full of brand new 30+ characters, so in AU, it fell apart quickly. Really wish upkeep crpg had been created as a seperate mod, because there are a lot of people who would still be playing "early beta" if they could, myself included.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Felagunda on May 01, 2011, 08:06:37 am
wow, there was alot of wrong in that statement.
210 is never easy to block unless you have a sizeable ping advantage. And the whole link to hyperbole was to say that the 300 was an exaggerated number, not a real one.

exaggerated didn't go far enough hence the word + link. for weapons 94 speed and less 210 wpf isn't that bad to block those.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: chadz on May 01, 2011, 10:36:25 am
Something else I'd like to add about the grind:

I don't think it's necessary evil. I also like the false sense of achievement I can gain in flash games. You know, level up here, distribute point there, whoops next level takes a bit longer, whoops enemies are a bit stronger, but hey, I'm tougher by my level up, awesome!

Maybe not the best game design, but it sure works.

However: that is singleplayer. If you stop, fair enough. You can come back anytime you want, you are as strong as before, as are the enemies, no damage done.

Now think multiplayer.

If you don't see the problem in people spending more time gaining an uncatchable advantage - or, as was with the generation bonus, getting an exponential advantage (who the fuck came up with that idea?!), then please, stay away from game design.

People are so influenced by WoW and all the other MMORPGS, but there is a difference: they do it because they want money. They want to hook you with the grind so you keep playing and paying, playing and paying. If you stop playing, they tell you "hey fucker, you're getting behind! Is that what you want? Get back here!"

This is *not* my intention. But if you want, I'll set up a pay2play version of cRPG where leveling is slower, there is no upkeep, and you can grind all day long so the new peasants can't harm you :)
Edit: also, you get 70% xp by killing people, 30% xp by being in the area of the kill. And you get something extra for the price: the game is patch free! Yes, I promise I'd never patch it once it's working!
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Banok on May 01, 2011, 10:55:03 am
sad thing is you would make alot of money.

but yeah still too much grind in this game imo.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: JOPOTINTTI on May 01, 2011, 11:16:35 am
i 1 for one rly liked the slow grind , and level 40 ubertanks because prepatch there really was challenging opponents, with the patch now , its like native , no one can stand moar than 2-5 hits , depending on any weapon , i must say i miss the elephant ,transistionallolstabbers,sword&board tincans , peasant wars , just because it was challenging
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Nessaj on May 01, 2011, 11:35:29 am
XP abooze
How can the XP boost be an 'uncatchable advantage' there is a limit to how many items one can wear and honestly (IMO) it does not make a big difference if someone is in fully heirloomed gear vs someone who isn't - now even more than ever with the weapon nerfs across the board. Generation 15, given no heirloom screw-ups, would net someone 4 fully heirloomed armor parts and 1 weapon, any generation above is redundant in-game, sure you could heirloom a new weapon and armor fast but so what? You can't wear 30 heirlooms at the same time - so unless we would see the trade feature later then there aren't any game-breaking issues to be addressed here. A cap should be in place though but at least 100% gain as a max.

Screw heirlooms
I personally never cared about heirlooms since they don't work in Strategus, but I did appreciate the XP bonus because it allowed me to experiment with new specializations and after having spent a decent amount of time on the game I do not think it is unfair to be able to faster remake your character - something that a ton of games need. Right now CRPG _IS_ like WoW, in WoW you reach a certain point and there's no more to do until new content is released - same thing in CRPG now, when you reach 31 there isn't anything else to do except wait for Strat to open so you have a purpose, no reason to retire because it takes ages to get up again so better not be signed up for a tournament etc + have tons of spare-time to level.

As for the actual heirlooms, if they scare you so much there's a million other ideas to implement that'd work much better -- I suggest a heirloom limit-- that would fix everything and also force people to consider what to heirloom at higher generations - and if they decide to heirloom something after having reached the cap they'd be forced to sell off an old heirloom = balance. Retirement without heirlooming should be available of course then.

Otherwise so far I like the patch except for the XP-gen nerf :).

The (imo) to do list:
PS: Thanks for all the hard work with the mod, it is very well appreciated, had more fun in M&B than any other games for like a decade (and I work in the industry :P).

Edit: Typo.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Prpavi on May 01, 2011, 01:15:19 pm
its way too laggy for the moment for me.

i even reinstalled the windows this morning just for cRPG and still its the same.

my pings are fine usually around 30 altho they have jumped up to 50ish but thats still ok.

donk know whats wrong, my PC is more tha capable to play this game with all the seeings turned all they way yet i turned it all down/off.

i feel like im haveing huge lag spikes and stuttering of massive proportions.

makes me a sad panda  :cry:
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Tydeus on May 01, 2011, 02:46:11 pm
XP abooze
How can the XP boost be an 'uncatchable advantage' there is a limit to how many items one can wear and honestly (IMO) it does not make a big difference if someone is in fully heirloomed gear vs someone who isn't - now even more than ever with the weapon nerfs across the board. Generation 15, given no heirloom screw-ups, would net someone 4 fully heirloomed armor parts and 1 weapon, any generation above is redundant in-game, sure you could heirloom a new weapon and armor fast but so what? You can't wear 30 heirlooms at the same time - so unless we would see the trade feature later then there aren't any game-breaking issues to be addressed here. A cap should be in place though but at least 100% gain as a max.

Screw heirlooms
I personally never cared about heirlooms since they don't work in Strategus, but I did appreciate the XP bonus because it allowed me to experiment with new specializations and after having spent a decent amount of time on the game I do not think it is unfair to be able to faster remake your character - something that a ton of games need. Right now CRPG _IS_ like WoW, in WoW you reach a certain point and there's no more to do until new content is released - same thing in CRPG now, when you reach 31 there isn't anything else to do except wait for Strat to open so you have a purpose, no reason to retire because it takes ages to get up again so better not be signed up for a tournament etc + have tons of spare-time to level.

As for the actual heirlooms, if they scare you so much there's a million other ideas to implement that'd work much better -- I suggest a heirloom limit-- that would fix everything and also force people to consider what to heirloom at higher generations - and if they decide to heirloom something after having reached the cap they'd be forced to sell off an old heirloom = balance. Retirement without heirlooming should be available of course then.

Otherwise so far I like the patch except for the XP-gen nerf :).

The (imo) to do list:
  • Heirloom reset
  • Spec reset
  • Re-evaluate XP-Gen bonus
  • Introduce heirloom limit (!)
PS: Thanks for all the hard work with the mod, it is very well appreciated, had more fun in M&B than any other games for like a decade (and I work in the industry :P).

Edit: Typo.
This, the whole fucking post word for word(minus an heirloom reset, though I could live with it if the xp base was where I felt it should be). Especially the emboldened statements, I don't think these concepts have either been stated yet or are being considered enough by the general forum population.

its way too laggy for the moment for me.
i even reinstalled the windows this morning just for cRPG and still its the same.
my pings are fine usually around 30 altho they have jumped up to 50ish but thats still ok.
donk know whats wrong, my PC is more tha capable to play this game with all the seeings turned all they way yet i turned it all down/off.
i feel like im haveing huge lag spikes and stuttering of massive proportions.
I've been getting some interesting lag on the NA 100 man and Siege when they're high(60+) population, since the patch. If I do a fast feint, chances are my 2nd swing won't go through, it won't register the swing at all(packet loss?). Blocking also has a bit of a delay to it as well, and even with my usual 50-70 ping, at 90+ players, it's completely unplayable, unless I forsake blocks ad just pray on the weak(not fun).
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: VicTheBear on May 01, 2011, 05:53:03 pm
(click to show/hide)

Hahaha, money farm.

 :idea:

LEECHING!
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Topsnus on May 01, 2011, 06:01:27 pm
Something else I'd like to add about the grind:

I don't think it's necessary evil. I also like the false sense of achievement I can gain in flash games. You know, level up here, distribute point there, whoops next level takes a bit longer, whoops enemies are a bit stronger, but hey, I'm tougher by my level up, awesome!

Maybe not the best game design, but it sure works.

However: that is singleplayer. If you stop, fair enough. You can come back anytime you want, you are as strong as before, as are the enemies, no damage done.

Now think multiplayer.

If you don't see the problem in people spending more time gaining an uncatchable advantage - or, as was with the generation bonus, getting an exponential advantage (who the fuck came up with that idea?!), then please, stay away from game design.

People are so influenced by WoW and all the other MMORPGS, but there is a difference: they do it because they want money. They want to hook you with the grind so you keep playing and paying, playing and paying. If you stop playing, they tell you "hey fucker, you're getting behind! Is that what you want? Get back here!"

This is *not* my intention. But if you want, I'll set up a pay2play version of cRPG where leveling is slower, there is no upkeep, and you can grind all day long so the new peasants can't harm you :)
Edit: also, you get 70% xp by killing people, 30% xp by being in the area of the kill. And you get something extra for the price: the game is patch free! Yes, I promise I'd never patch it once it's working!

Why don't you go back to the old system, and put a level cap at 35. Make retirement for heirlooms only, since they aren't a very big deal. And also implement an extensive ranking system. Make it so that it shows your rank in game, on the forums, and anywhere else you can think to put it. Then, make it so that when you hit level 35 (or 31, whatever you decided to make the level cap) it stops your statistics from being affected. So if you want to be competitive in the rankings, you have to retire. Retiring would be a full reset, gold included, maybe even make people have to buy the heirlooms they "unlocked." The point of this would be to keep people from flying through the generations too quickly.

This system would work because the heirlooms, and competitive showy side would probably be enough to keep most of the 15 gen types retiring. Yet the heirlooms wouldn't be so unfair as to give them a ridiculous edge. Then we could go back to the old system of buying the equipment once, and actually earning it. Thoughts?

(in this idea retiring gives ONLY a heirloom, and allows you to continue in the leader-boards. There is NO exp or gold bonus for later gens)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Keshian on May 01, 2011, 06:15:53 pm
Honestly, the changes were overall good and needed, kinda  wish it was a little easier level gaining for new players, but otherwise great overall.  I disagree with all these convoluted plans to somehow revert back or revamp everything into something you guys want by respeccing/reheirlooming/wiping, most of the playerbase doesn't seem to really support that.  chadz, keep up the good work and appreciate more updates and looking forward to strategus.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Nasturtium on May 01, 2011, 06:23:18 pm
+1 kesh, well spoken as usual.

 You will have to pardon me for whoring this idea, but I think its a really good one.

  I still think a good solution for letting grinders grind, and reduce the ammount of heirlooms would be to introduce rare and unique gear that players would need to trade in one, two, or three masterwork heirlooms to get.

 If I had the chance to trade my hierlooms for some bit of armor that few other players had, or an icon on a pole I could wave around and feel important, it would give me motivation to grind out that net gen.

  Something many rpg games are doing is the whole "crafting" thing, you grind for components, then you combine these to make items. This is the seed of that idea, another bit of metagame to keep us coming back for more.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4241.0.html
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on May 01, 2011, 06:42:03 pm
Something else I'd like to add about the grind:

I don't think it's necessary evil. I also like the false sense of achievement I can gain in flash games. You know, level up here, distribute point there, whoops next level takes a bit longer, whoops enemies are a bit stronger, but hey, I'm tougher by my level up, awesome!

Maybe not the best game design, but it sure works.

However: that is singleplayer. If you stop, fair enough. You can come back anytime you want, you are as strong as before, as are the enemies, no damage done.

Now think multiplayer.

If you don't see the problem in people spending more time gaining an uncatchable advantage - or, as was with the generation bonus, getting an exponential advantage (who the fuck came up with that idea?!), then please, stay away from game design.

People are so influenced by WoW and all the other MMORPGS, but there is a difference: they do it because they want money. They want to hook you with the grind so you keep playing and paying, playing and paying. If you stop playing, they tell you "hey fucker, you're getting behind! Is that what you want? Get back here!"

This is *not* my intention. But if you want, I'll set up a pay2play version of cRPG where leveling is slower, there is no upkeep, and you can grind all day long so the new peasants can't harm you :)
Edit: also, you get 70% xp by killing people, 30% xp by being in the area of the kill. And you get something extra for the price: the game is patch free! Yes, I promise I'd never patch it once it's working!

i think we all agree with your line. that's why i hope to make people think about a faster 1-30 or 1-40 leveling with no heirlooms or limited to 3 or 6.
because people start playing for fun, they enjoy the game, the leveling. then lots of people fall (like i did in the past) in the retirement for heirloom/xp bonus whirlpool. then some of these players, just play to grind and not more play for fun. that's why you see a lot people going mad on public servers for a TK, for an afk player, for a nickname they don't like. i'm pretty sure the biggest part of trolls just troll because they amassed so much stress, so much few sleep to play, that they go mad for the smaller things.

when i grinded 4 months to achieve my OP wpf stacker strength build, i was much stressed. i enjoyd the game yes. but not as much as when i came back two weeks ago. i really enjoyed the game without the grind stress behind.

i really hope the XP system and heirloom system will change. i'll not play to grind anymore. i'll only play to enjoy public server matches, clanwars and strategus if will come back.
now i want to respec my useless thrower (not really useful when can only carry a pack of jarids and a poleaxe as the english bill cannot be sheated) but going from 29 to 31 just take too much time so, i'll come back to make XP when the things change. now i'll only play my main two handed in the shogunate tournament.

i had a chat in TS with a mindless grinder you all know. was friday night. he said he play and retire play and retire because he don't have any other things to do. that's sad because i enjoy going out with my blues band, i enjoy the time with my daughter and wife, i enjoy working on my own things. and SOMETIME when i have time, i log in a crpg, or i catch my mates to do a clanwar. and i play because i really WANT TO.

now chadz just please explain... if you really think what you wrote, why the game system have a unlimited grind? pre 0.200 you said "the game will have some sort of levelcap but to reach level 30-32 will be a piece of cake." now that's false. 1-31 for a gen1 takes forever. 1-31 for a gen10 with equip and money take less. people go around with 50 standard body armor +12 from heirlooms, titanium shields... please just share your future plans with us.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on May 01, 2011, 06:45:26 pm
Make it so that it shows your rank in game, on the forums, and anywhere else you can think to put it. Then, make it so that when you hit level 35 (or 31, whatever you decided to make the level cap) it stops your statistics from being affected. So if you want to be competitive in the rankings, you have to retire. Retiring would be a full reset, gold included, maybe even make people have to buy the heirlooms they "unlocked." The point of this would be to keep people from flying through the generations too quickly.

there will be people playing 18 hours a day anyway, breaking the "fair-advantage" limit. and to stay in the line, the mass will try to do the same to catch up.

IMO bad idea.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Topsnus on May 01, 2011, 06:47:58 pm
+1 kesh, well spoken as usual.

 You will have to pardon me for whoring this idea, but I think its a really good one.

  I still think a good solution for letting grinders grind, and reduce the ammount of heirlooms would be to introduce rare and unique gear that players would need to trade in one, two, or three masterwork heirlooms to get.

 If I had the chance to trade my hierlooms for some bit of armor that few other players had, or an icon on a pole I could wave around and feel important, it would give me motivation to grind out that net gen.

  Something many rpg games are doing is the whole "crafting" thing, you grind for components, then you combine these to make items. This is the seed of that idea, another bit of metagame to keep us coming back for more.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4241.0.html
See, thats why i brought up the leader-board idea. It would probably motivate you to retire, without giving you a ridiculous advantage. Win-Win
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Krex on December 23, 2014, 01:29:51 am
Didnt have time to read the whole topic,but I will do that tomorrow.
What I would like to say is:
cRPG is clearly loosing it’s magic, and this is sad.

Also,
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 23, 2014, 03:28:29 am
So whats the point again in pointing out that the mod is dying? Mod is dead has been said throughout the entire lifetime of the mod jokingly, sure, but now everyone is calling it out that its dying, as if theres a way to stop it.

30-50 players is hey-okay with me, i will play till the servers are completely dried out and empty anyways. Just enjoy it while its still there.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Pawiu on December 23, 2014, 05:33:55 am
Hi folks,

To start with, this is not a rage or drama thread (I hope). It’s the voice of despaired.

In this thread I will share with you my thoughts and concerns on the current state of cRPG project. To start with, I will present my cRPG experience, just to show that I have a right to say.

I started playing cRPG the next week it came public. I was the second player that bought horse in cRPG, which was immensely expensive at that time.  I am a member of Mercs clan. I am a donator. Also, this week I was permanently banned on all EU servers for attacking friendly tincans with my LVL 1 CHAR ARMED WITH KNIFE! Yes, I am a dangerous man!

It gave me time to think about what’s going on in cRPG.

Ok, enough about me, I shall get to the topic. What we now call the “early cRPG beta” (and what I consider the only true cRPG) attracted me in the first place with the idea that I could have a persistent character THAT IS CONSTANTLY IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING. I.e. every time you levelled up at that time, or bought new piece of equip, was like a holiday, a celebration if you wish. Huge amounts of joy, and I am very grateful to chadz for these moments! Levelling was very slow, items were very expensive, cRPG life was full of meaning. The dev team is constantly talking about balance, nerfs, rebalance, tweaks. IMHO the “early beta” paradoxically was the most balanced and joyful cRPG experience I had so far. You may disagree with that, but THAT’S MY IMHO.

So, where are we now? Where is that CONSTANTLY IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING thing now? Well, pretty much it’s gone. As soon as you hit lvl 31 (and for me it takes about one week and a half), the IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING part is over, since I can afford pretty much everything, every equip. I am not a cRPG millionaire, but I have 200k gold and masterwork primary weapon. As for levelling, as you know, lvl 35 is the cap, and there is no big difference between lvls 31 and 35. So, personally I kept playing only for the sake of funny fights, 3 vs 1 fights I can win, for adrenalin. Now tell me what is the big difference between current cRPG and Warband? In both games players have same levels, same weapons (albeit a bit smaller variability in Warband), same armors. And this is very sad. I mean, c’mon, when was the last time we saw large scale PEASANT WARS?

Another thing that bothers me is the ease with which you can be teamkilled and can teamkill yourself. No real penalties. IMHO this is a shame. Now if you teamkill someone, your whole team suffers (as if it is their fault), while before only you were personally responsible for TKs. And responsibility was harsh, and for good. I would be glad to see the old TK penalty system back.

To conclude, cRPG is clearly loosing it’s magic, and this is sad. And probably very soon cRPG will lose me (which will make some of you, my old virtual enemies, very happy, but I really don’t care).

I hope this testimony will trigger some deep reflection in general public and the dev team. And no disrespect meant.
i wanted to reply to this post
then i niticed that its 4 y old
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Radament on December 23, 2014, 05:37:09 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: karasu on December 23, 2014, 12:38:49 pm
Quote
attention whore

Label given to any person who craves attention to such an extent that they will do anything to receive it. The type of attention (negative or positive) does not matter.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Casimir on December 23, 2014, 03:00:38 pm
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Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: SyderOne on December 23, 2014, 03:52:05 pm
Im still playing ... ( Vanguard_Syder/Vanguard_Happy) and I will continue playing until either the last. It's True the mod has undergone many changes ( the most really bad ), for example when cav was nerfed  all GK clan directly left the mod ... and more examples like that. A lot of unbalanced changes ( thx Tydeus ), archery got nerfed a lot of times too .. etc. The main and most important is that we need more new players or old again... dunno how for example with double xp days, maybe get back ladders on some maps ( not all! )...

Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Leshma on December 23, 2014, 04:18:35 pm
I'm not even sure is the balance reason for low population. For example, the most populated native server is neoGK*Siege_best which is a copy of original neoGK*Siege which now has third of its original population. What is the reason for that? neoGK*Siege_best is run by former member of the same clan as original server but the thing is, he's Turkish and server is located in Turkey. This game is predominantly played by Turks and eastern Europeans.

Another example is Sebastian's Battle of Europe mod. Very similar to cRPG but different and improved in many ways. Less errors and glitches than both cRPG and Native. Improved graphics. Had short surge of low population, right now effectively dead.

Point being is, when chadz announced M:BG, Turkish part of Warband/cRPG population wasn't pleased. Their clans abandoned the mod awhile ago. Followed by bigger part of large eastern EU clans (Druzhina and Greys). Only remnants of those clans still play the game.

It is all about being able to pull large amount of people to your game. Chivalry guys had (barely) successful Kickstarter during golden age of games crowdfunding. But they managed to sell million of copies because: a) they are American developer (this is very important, Witcher 3 will never sell as much CDProject wants because they aren't from USA), b) they emerged in a limbo where Warband was moderately old and weren't many similar games (WotR was huge fail).

I don't think so that things will go well for future new games in this genre, market for them isn't growing because no one who can make it grow isn't making these type of games (like Blizzard). Mount&Blade is recognized brand and Bannerlord will sell same and better, no matter what. Rest of the games are on their own. I'm afraid that not even quality of the product is enough to make a new classic. Sebastian's mod isn't perfect, but doesn't deserve such quick death (serious effort was put into it). And we all know Natural Selection 2, best game no one plays...
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: FleetFox on December 23, 2014, 04:20:22 pm
Would be nice to have a change from the multiplier though, used to enjoy getting exp and gold depending on how many kills you could pick up and be near to, best thing for me when i started playing :)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: //saxon on December 23, 2014, 06:13:49 pm
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: SyderOne on December 23, 2014, 06:52:09 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M97vR2V4vTs
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Radament on December 23, 2014, 07:14:12 pm
saw a lot of oldmy old friend returning nowadays , LeoKing , Muffin , another Barabe that i don't remember the name , yesterday evening there were a lot of ppl including me playing on EU_1.
Don't know if changing the xp multi could bring more fun , yes was fun in 2010 but if you reintroduce this KILL=XP mentality , i think the bit of teamplay we could see now will probably change in a boring DM were people just run for the ez kills and don't focus on an objective like flags or help another teammate in trouble.
that's my 2 cents  :D
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: FleetFox on December 23, 2014, 08:50:34 pm
saw a lot of oldmy old friend returning nowadays , LeoKing , Muffin , another Barabe that i don't remember the name , yesterday evening there were a lot of ppl including me playing on EU_1.
Don't know if changing the xp multi could bring more fun , yes was fun in 2010 but if you reintroduce this KILL=XP mentality , i think the bit of teamplay we could see now will probably change in a boring DM were people just run for the ez kills and don't focus on an objective like flags or help another teammate in trouble.
that's my 2 cents  :D

Yeah but the proximity exp from team mates killing was the fabric that held together the best team plays I have seen, exp barn anyone? haha good times

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: woody on December 23, 2014, 09:18:51 pm
Started playing native multiplayer a bit again but it pales quickly. CRPG is still the best game I have played, but I have played many, many hours and am now bored by it. Previously I have taken 3 month breaks from it and come back, this time Im not sure the mod will be there. As a few have stated the mostly lvl35+ servers are not an improvement, far too many longsword/katana/longaxe etc spammers. A 50% increase in all weapon strength requirements or a stat cap at 31 would draw me back but would alienate many. however personally I found the really good old days of following a tank really dull and the improvements since then have overall made the game better. Still miss Finn on his Rhino though.
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: Radament on December 23, 2014, 11:43:33 pm
Yeah but the proximity exp from team mates killing was the fabric that held together the best team plays I have seen, exp barn anyone? haha good times

(click to show/hide)

oh you mean that. well yea that was better than this actual multy.
loved the xp barn eheh
Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: //saxon on December 24, 2014, 06:03:47 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M97vR2V4vTs


Title: Re: Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG
Post by: SyderOne on December 26, 2014, 06:12:26 pm


               
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-dtOb-Jc8s