Varyag's testimony on the current state of cRPG

[Beauchamp]

i have opposite opinion, the game imo develops in a really good balanced way. exp system is the best i can imagine. i don't have to spend years to be succesfull, lvl up to 25 takes minimum effort. i like that.

imo your opinons are biased because you suffer from selective memory, just because you play this game for so long time (just recall any other game you've been playing for longer time than crpg, instead of ultima online i can't find any...). and maybe my opinion is also biased, because i usually play only if many fallens are online and it always feel like organized battles for us.

i don't care for strategus so much, but really a lot of other people do and they do a lot. i don't know why it can't stay online in the same way as it looked before (just only with the latest crpg patch we have). this is imo the worst decision chadz has made - i'm sure quite a lot of people have left the game because of that. and if it keeps going like that, the more will be leaving.

edit: hmm but there are A LOT of new clans with a lot of new players that have never seen strategus, so i might be wrong. but for sure not having strategus affected at least couple of guys from the old community.

[okiN]

i have opposite opinion, the game imo develops in a really good balanced way. exp system is the best i can imagine. i don't have to spend years to be succesfull, lvl up to 25 takes minimum effort. i like that.

imo your opinons are biased because you suffer from selective memory, just because you play this game for so long time

Amen. It's very true that cRPG was a hell of a lot of fun when it first came out... until it got broken. But it wasn't broken by patches, it was broken by players, and it really didn't take very long. All the subsequent patches have been attempts to adjust for the efforts of players to push the system to places it was never meant to go. There may have been some missteps along the way, and the magic of discovery from the first releases has worn off with time, but do you seriously think the game would seem anywhere near as appealing as it does now if none of those changes had been made? Take off your nostalgia goggles for a moment and really think about it.

[Teeth]

Ok, enough about me, I shall get to the topic. What we now call the “early cRPG beta” (and what I consider the only true cRPG) attracted me in the first place with the idea that I could have a persistent character THAT IS CONSTANTLY IMPROVING AND DEVELOPING. I.e. every time you levelled up at that time, or bought new piece of equip, was like a holiday, a celebration if you wish. Huge amounts of joy, and I am very grateful to chadz for these moments! Levelling was very slow, items were very expensive, cRPG life was full of meaning.

For a player that entered near the beginning stages of the crpg beta, this might have been fun. I started playing Crpg in december I believe. By then this constant lvling made my low level character virtually chanceless against most other rididculous high level players. A big part of my gameplay experiences were hiding behind my shield or objects with the rest of my team and being run down by plated chargers. So for me this new system is more enjoyable, where I fight characters that are equal to mine and where skill is more important.

It takes me about two months to gain a generation, so if it takes you one and a half week you either play a lot now, or you have already played a lot in the past. You cant expect a simple game like this to stay entertaining and interesting for so several thousands of hours. I heard the patch isnt that far away, so maybe that will entertain you until Strategus comes back, which I think will add a lot to the current Crpg experience.

I agree that this system isnt going to be entertaining for ever. But the previous system favoured the 8 hours a day players too much. I think there should be more of a skill reward.

[[ptx]]

AFAIK, you are not perma-banned. In fact, the banlist says you are scheduled to be unbanned today. Just saying.

Also, +1 to okiN, quite true. A lot of the fun characters and roleplay, that can be done now, would've been impossible, if c-rpg hadn't changed since earlier betas, because of broken, overpowered, overgrinded characters stomping everyone else. Sure, it had its moments, but, really...

[Fluffy_Muffin]

After the patch the game became much more friendly for new players, it introduced a smooth start, fast lvling and a nice money income. Imo the upkeep patch was the best thing that happend to Crpg. I thing you are being overnostalgic, i know i always do that

[Kafein]

I agree with the OP on allmost everything. The patch turned cRPG into a Native++ with just a few days of discovery, then blah, you have finished the game when you reach level 30. You can pretty much buy everything with very little effort, but upkeep will prevent you from using gear you deserved by obtaining the money needed. It's like, you buy something, but you can't use it. Heirlooming everything isn't fun, leveling over 31 isn't fun. It's just Native, with many more broken mechanics and pieces of equipment, and many more super-cheap ways of "fighting". Now noob ninjas are more common than medium armor users, isn't it a shame for both real ninjas and basic soldiers ?


A long story short, cRPG prepatch was interesting for all four types of players (link to the paper will follow). cRPG postpatch isn't anymore. It severely reduced the interest for acheivers and explorers, explained in details here : http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Although this is about old game, the theory about player motivations explained is still true.


By making the early game easy, the patch has increased motivation for some, but also dramatically decreased it for others.

[Blondin]

+1 for oKin

Grinders broked the mod...
Thanks to the dev team for patching cRPG in a non-elitist way but for the fun of everybody.

Ppl almost only think of their situation and own interest, the dev team showed us that they have a general view in the community and mod interest.

If the mod would have stay like prepatch i'm pretty sur that it will be dead already with only the same elite grinder players.

[Varyag]

I agree with the OP on allmost everything. The patch turned cRPG into a Native++ with just a few days of discovery, then blah, you have finished the game when you reach level 30. You can pretty much buy everything with very little effort, but upkeep will prevent you from using gear you deserved by obtaining the money needed. It's like, you buy something, but you can't use it. Heirlooming everything isn't fun, leveling over 31 isn't fun. It's just Native, with many more broken mechanics and pieces of equipment, and many more super-cheap ways of "fighting". Now noob ninjas are more common than medium armor users, isn't it a shame for both real ninjas and basic soldiers ?

Thats's what I feel

If the mod would have stay like prepatch i'm pretty sur that it will be dead already with only the same elite grinder players.

I have no wish to argue, and you are partly right, but for me this mod certainly lost the magic of improving and developing that cRPGs were always about. I mean, in early beta, when you bought a horse - it was such a joy! As for elitists, btw, at that time chadz said that horses should belong only to rich and experienced players (not exactly his words, but close), hence was the huge price and effort to buy one.

IMHO the easy availability of every piece of equip and fast levelling is what kills current cRPG.

[JOPOTINTTI]

cRPG gone downdowndown , started from the patch that deleted horseback GLA's , Upkeep path was nuclear bomb , wich made the whole mod utter shite.

I agree with the OP on allmost everything. The patch turned cRPG into a Native++ with just a few days of discovery, then blah, you have finished the game when you reach level 30. You can pretty much buy everything with very little effort, but upkeep will prevent you from using gear you deserved by obtaining the money needed. It's like, you buy something, but you can't use it. Heirlooming everything isn't fun, leveling over 31 isn't fun. It's just Native, with many more broken mechanics and pieces of equipment, and many more super-cheap ways of "fighting". Now noob ninjas are more common than medium armor users, isn't it a shame for both real ninjas and basic soldiers ?


A long story short, cRPG prepatch was interesting for all four types of players (link to the paper will follow). cRPG postpatch isn't anymore. It severely reduced the interest for acheivers and explorers, explained in details here : http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Although this is about old game, the theory about player motivations explained is still true.


By making the early game easy, the patch has increased motivation for some, but also dramatically decreased it for others.

Also this.

[Beauchamp]

there is no game that will be good for everybody. luckily i prefer the idea where this game is developing now, unluckily you belong to the other half. if it were opposite, i'd be probably the one who would start this topic :o)

you could start a poll to see if people prefered crpg before upkeep/archery patch or afterwards or they are new guys that don't remember the old days.

[Leesin]

I played cRPG since the first ever public release too, but IMO this is the best the mod has ever been, it's got a fairer balance, grinding isn't anywhere near as bad as some patches, alot more variety in weapons and equipment used etc.

Upkeep makes it so we don't have a field full of tincans, which I enjoy, you can use alot of equipment and still afford upkeep, it's really not an issue unless all you want to do is run about in tincan spamming a hugely expensive weapon, which is why the upkeep was added in the first place, because back when everyone had plate armour and using the same weapons, the mod became boring as fuck. plus there are still plenty of guys who use plate armours.

[Murmillus_Prime]

The level cap should be increased to 45. Exp requirements per level need to be ironed out so that it's a gradual experience amount required per level, instead of taking a day to get to level 20 and then a week to get to level 31.

[Kafein]

there is no game that will be good for everybody. luckily i prefer the idea where this game is developing now, unluckily you belong to the other half. if it were opposite, i'd be probably the one who would start this topic )

you could start a poll to see if people prefered crpg before upkeep/archery patch or afterwards or they are new guys that don't remember the old days.

I think many today's active players are very recent ones that's never played prepatch cRPG. Recent, fast-growing clans are plenty of these. This is a testimony of how many players left the game a short while after the last patch, because it became boring for them. A graph of the average active population would be even more expressive. You would have a slowly growing population prepatch, then a spike starting with the first big patch release, then when people start to be bored, crash. Today we are hitting ground levels in active population, without Strategus and without a long-lasting and acheivement-based gameplay. Many players come, level fast, hit 30 and quit, in lack of a proper goal to be set. Asking them for their opinion about the patch has little meaning.

The patch in general was extremely harsh for acheivers that lost nearly all the meaning, goals and acheivements they had. Varyag and Vicious posts are symptomatic of this. The 180° turn that was the patch was perceived as a treason for those types of players (please, don't be mad on me, I'm not turning you into a guinea pig, I'm just explaining things in an extremely elitist psychology style).

[okiN]

I think many today's active players are very recent ones that's never played prepatch cRPG. Recent, fast-growing clans are plenty of these. This is a testimony of how many players left the game a short while after the last patch, because it became boring for them.

Yeah? And how about all the people who quit prepatch for exactly that same reason?

A graph of the average active population would be even more expressive. You would have a slowly growing population prepatch

I wonder...

[Babelfish]

Ill always cherish the early days of cRPG, even if i got my ass handed to me. I knew even back then, that the magic would eventually loose its touch and the game would turn into routine. For us older players thats all cRPG is at the moment. I'm not denying that this version is by far superior when it comes to bugs & balance etc.. But i miss that close community we had back when it was only 1 server 

Early alphabeta-cRPG was better for me, because it was new and exciting with a decent community.