Every time I ask around to see why it is that the battle server's populations are almost always full and the siege servers are almost always empty, I get the reply to something of the effect that siege is a broken gamemode with bad maps.
For the better part of a year, NA players have been begging the devs to change the maps on NA siege, or to open servers with alternative gamemodes like conquest, or to allow new servers, hosted by players, to receive gold and XP ticks.
Rageball is just lulzshit and even it gets more love from the devs than siege or other gamemodes.
Why does this mod have to get streamtarded down to basic deathmatch bullshit?
Sorry to QQ but now that my favorite server is dying yeah I'm umad about it.
I don't think it's dying, KUTT just keeps killing off its population. 8-)Yep, blame KUTT
NA Siege has been ruined by clans min/max specializing their builds to it. Both MB and KUTT run 10-20 guys in str builds and 60+ armour.
Just dumb, can't compete against someone with twice your armor, can't kill them fast enough to overcome choke/flag camp or massed push.
Battle still balanced, STR builds/armor definitely do not rule when there's room to maneuver and no 3 feet wide chokes or flags but siege is now a joke balance wise.
Name all of our players who are strength builds. If you can come up with "10-20" I'll give you 100k cRPG gold.
NA Siege has been ruined by clans min/max specializing their builds to it. Both MB and KUTT run 10-20 guys in str builds and 60+ armour.
Just dumb, can't compete against someone with twice your armor, can't kill them fast enough to overcome choke/flag camp or massed push.
Battle still balanced, STR builds/armor definitely do not rule when there's room to maneuver and no 3 feet wide chokes or flags but siege is now a joke balance wise.
Caita
Celti
DooM
Para
Phaze
Rextard
TankenXeen
Macleod
RJ
Ser Pink
Tretter <-- The epitome of KUTTTugboa
Wolfgang
Admiral Snackbar
Caramel Machiatto
Dutchy
Short Sir Kutt
TurmoilTom
Loki
Somewhat close guess :P
armor more than str is the issue,
armor more than str is the issue,
Putting all of the clan hate/rivalry aside. I do think the main problem with siege not being able to stay populated is the extremely stale map rotation. I saw this problem coming weeks ago, and I submitted a new map rotation. It did get accepted (with a few tweaks) and I was under the impression that it was already implemented and that it only needed a server restart in order to get the new rotation working.
I guess that never happened though. Apparently we need somebody with a higher authority (chadz/cmp) to implement the rotation and restart the server. So if anyone wants the rotation to change, those are the people that have to do it.
NA Siege has been ruined by clans min/max specializing their builds to it. Both MB and KUTT run 10-20 guys in str builds and 60+ armour.
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NA Siege has been ruined by clans min/max specializing their builds to it. ....I don't quite see it that way. On EU we have 2 clans which at times have the most players on siege, HRE and Grey Order. While it is at times unsettling to get against an organized crowed, still i wouldn't like it any other way, as the challenge is then bigger and when the pub nevertheless wins, it is the more satisfying.
I'll never forget the day that I was raging at all of you because we had like 10 people on and no one above 21 strength to break a fucking door. Then for like 2 hours we had like 50 people accuse us of strength crutching.
NA Siege is Dying
Wait, what? I made a name for myself as a strength user? I've used something different almost every gen I've ever done. I mixed my pikeman build up regularly. Really, the things this community comes up with.
It doesn't matter if you aren't always a strength build, when I think of you (and I would say that most people would agree), I think strength build pikeman in plate armor or plated charger bump cav in plate.
Also, I have seen para playing lately, but prior to retiring at level 33, wasn't he a str shielder in full plate with a plate shield and a crossbow?
Oh yeah forgot about that plated charger shit you guys did with dedicated 11 riding character. Horsebump abuse, more real thrilling gameplay brought to siege server by KUTT.
So can I say that Goretooth armor crutches more than anyone else in the game because when I think of him I think of his +3 Black Armor set and +3 Bec de Corbin? Like you said, it doesn't matter if he doesn't do it anymore, right?
Also, yes, Para used to be 24/12 (eventually 27/12) shielder with plate and a crossbow. He burned through a lot of money with that build and had to play his Upper_KUTT alt a ton to not lose gold, iirc.
Played siege for a little bit yesterday. There was a map with a set of doors with so much HP that it took the attackers 5 minutes to break it down, only to find there was another set of doors behind that one. Talk about compelling gameplay, huh?
If we could set our own ladders in siege like the old days, that map would not have been a problem. Taking away our ladders really hurt siege more than anything else. Ladders were only ever a problem to EU players anyway.
It doesn't matter if you aren't always a strength build, when I think of you (and I would say that most people would agree), I think strength build pikeman in plate armor or plated charger bump cav in plate.
Also, I have seen para playing lately, but prior to retiring at level 33, wasn't he a str shielder in full plate with a plate shield and a crossbow?
edit:I think part of this "defending is easy" perception stems from the fact that when defense wins big, it's one of the most brutally demoralizing things in C-rpg.
Really??!?? Lol, the most brutally demoralizing thing in crpg is to lose as attackers on siege?? Wow, your world is small, come to battle server some time where theNothing quite as fun as getting repeatedly bumped, kited, couched, or piked. Also nothing as fun as each team holding out on its respective hill, neither side attacking for over a minute. Honestly the only reason I play battle half the time is because siege is empty.skilledbig boys play.
Nothing quite as fun as getting repeatedly bumped, kited, couched, or piked. Also nothing as fun as each team holding out on its respective hill, neither side attacking for over a minute. Honestly the only reason I play battle half the time is because siege is empty.
Nothing quite as fun as getting repeatedly bumped, kited, couched, or piked. Also nothing as fun as both teams each holding out on their respective hill, neither side attacking for over a minute. Honestly the only reason I play battle half the time is because siege is empty.
Part of the problem is due to population variances.
When numbers are high, defense can be "easier"
When numbers are low, attack can be "easier"
This is due to the fact that with low numbers, the defense spawn timers are just too much - once too many people die, not enough spawn back in before attack takes the flag area by force.
With high numbers, attack can be a little harder because it is harder to get defense "on timers" so to speak.
Sounds like horses and chasing after people is a weakness you could improve upon. And pikemen aren't bad if you are fighting in a group, if you're fighting 1 v any and the any group has a pikeman, you're going to be at a disadvantage.
Teamwork, it's what's for dinner. Or you could just hang out in the duel server, you can be a rambo hero and not have to worry about anyone taking advantage of your weaknesses.
And pikemen aren't bad if you are fighting in a group, if you're fighting 1 v any and the any group has a pikeman, you're going to be at a disadvantage.Pikemen are very bad if you are fighting in a group. I know this from topfragging as one for several maps in a row, with help from the players in the Chaos teamspeak (and a few NH folks). Given a semi-competent team (or really just a small group of competent players), having a pike makes it very easy to do well - you rarely need to block, and you don't need to worry about footwork. All you have to do is sit in a blob and poke people who are busy blocking or attacking other people.
Really??!?? Lol, the most brutally demoralizing thing in crpg is to lose as attackers on siege?? Wow, your world is small, come to battle server some time where theskilledbig boys play.
I played 20 gens in a row in battle.
Suffering horrible, demoralizing losses in battle sucks too. No doubt there. It's just that walking for 30-45 seconds only to die horribly over and over for 3 rounds in a row seems to crush people's spirits to the point of GTXting far more consistently.
For the record, I would EXCITEDLY support removing siege altogether if they would just make master of the field auto-pop in battle at a reasonable time or any number of other changes/new game modes.
I cannot remember the last time I have seen a round draw, so I don't really see why MOTF auto-pop is what would make you play battle.MoTF popup would force both teams to immediately engage, ideally leading to faster battles with little downtime. As an additional bonus, infantry would get an indirect buff, since it's the only class that can effectively hold ground. I'm not sure if it would end up making battle better in practice, but it would be an interesting experiment.
Hmm, what do people think of when they think of me?Rocks. That's pretty obvious.
Rocks. That's pretty obvious.
MoTF popup would force both teams to immediately engage, ideally leading to faster battles with little downtime. As an additional bonus, infantry would get an indirect buff, since it's the only class that can effectively hold ground. I'm not sure if it would end up making battle better in practice, but it would be an interesting experiment.
The disadvantage is that all maps would have to be rebalanced to make sure that MoTF pops in a place that is equally accessible to both teams.
For the battle server I would like to see all the village maps from strategus re implemented. They are much better than a lot of the maps we get stuck playing and we would have some pretty great variety. I'd also like to see ladders return to battle so that I can sit on a roof and shoot people like the old days.
The last thing battle needs is more village maps.
Also, If I remember correctly, NA1 used to have all the strategus villages in the rotation but were taken off some time back.
NA Siege has been ruined by clans min/max specializing their builds to it. Both MB and KUTT run 10-20 guys in str builds and 60+ armour.
Just dumb, can't compete against someone with twice your armor, can't kill them fast enough to overcome choke/flag camp or massed push.
Battle still balanced, STR builds/armor definitely do not rule when there's room to maneuver and no 3 feet wide chokes or flags but siege is now a joke balance wise.
So from what I got after reading this thread is that we need to ban NA.nah that i should be in the old black armor with a bec. Sounds like everyone wants that.
Dumbass please name 5 KUTT members who run actual STR builds and wear 60+ armor and I'll give you 500K crpg gold no joke
Also KUTT hasn't even been playing actively on seige the past few days, no more than maybe 4 of us on there at a time for no more than a hour or two.
Seige sucks because there was a new map rotation submitted and said by the devs to be implemented then never was. So great play once again by the devs. Something so simple to fix was once again just ignored and put on the back burner
nah that i should be in the old black armor with a bec. Sounds like everyone wants that.
I loved it when NA1 had all the village maps. It added so much variety. I get kind of sick of the maps currently in rotation and whenever we get a random plains some admin just changes it back to one of the maps we are always playing.
NA Siege has been ruined by clans min/max specializing their builds to it. Both MB and KUTT run 10-20 guys in str builds and 60+ armour.
Just dumb, can't compete against someone with twice your armor, can't kill them fast enough to overcome choke/flag camp or massed push.
Battle still balanced, STR builds/armor definitely do not rule when there's room to maneuver and no 3 feet wide chokes or flags but siege is now a joke balance wise.
Some MB are str builds, but no where near the amount of KUTT, I can count maybe 5 to 7 in MB that are full str.
Some MB are str builds, but no where near the amount of KUTT, I can count maybe 5 to 7 in MB that are full str.
Idgaf what builds people use, it's just that KUTT/MB's average armor level is pretty high (Heraldic Mail up to Light Kuyak or Transitional), even if it is brought down by a few people in Lamellar or Fur Coats.
I swear I haven't seen Negga wear anything other than his Heavy Kuyak/Black Gloves combo for months, which if heirloomed is 51 body armor. THIS isn't terrible in itself, until you consider the fact that he's going to be team-balanced based on banner instead of any reasonable and equitable variable, which can lead to some really unbalanced teams, which frankly isn't fun for anybody. So if MB or KUTT are all wearing heavy (40+ body armor; yes, that is a high value, yes, that includes gloves) and are balanced on the same team they're at a serious advantage regardless of builds involved.
The easy answer, one that I've been lobbying for for month after month now in all modes, is changing away from a system of banner balance into something based on more concrete values like loadout cost, stat allocation, and performance.
Come on, anything under a total of 70 body armor is light armor.
This is honestly true. When I first started, NA had an average value of about 50 counting looms when you looked at people, but now it really is close to 70 when you look at all the +3 crap people wear.
Dumbass please name 5 KUTT members who run actual STR builds and wear 60+ armor and I'll give you 500K crpg gold no jokeARTIEthestrongestmanINTHEWORLD
Also KUTT hasn't even been playing actively on seige the past few days, no more than maybe 4 of us on there at a time for no more than a hour or two.
Seige sucks because there was a new map rotation submitted and said by the devs to be implemented then never was. So great play once again by the devs. Something so simple to fix was once again just ignored and put on the back burner
Its more HP + armor than it is just armor that makes someone take 50,000 hits...Unfortunately, even a balanced 21/18 build with max IF (70 HP) will take a silly number of hits to kill with 70 armor.
The issue is mostly people in medium-heavy loomed armor with 75+ HP (and some have upwards of 90) that makes them take so many hits.
ARTIEthestrongestmanINTHEWORLD
Para
Tanken
Tretter
TurmoilTom
Wolfgang
Those are just the ones I'm SURE have a strength build.
I could use the money.
That 1-2 figure though goes out the window when you consider the "AGIwhores" attacking people with 4-5PS, or the "STRcrutchers" smashing people with 9-13.
We are bound to see massive deviations given the range of possible damage values vs the range of possible armor values. Even in native it usually takes about two to three strikes.
Not on the duel servers...
ARTIEthestrongestmanINTHEWORLD
Para
Tanken
TretterTurmoilTom
Wolfgang
Those are just the ones I'm SURE have a strength build.
I could use the money.
Some MB are str builds, but no where near the amount of KUTT, I can count maybe 5 to 7 in MB that are full str.
I would give you the money if these were actual str builds.
Only person listed there that specs high str is Tretter.
Everyone else on there is currently specced 21 str or less and only Para/Tretter are currently using anything close to heavy armor on that list
Doesnt Artie have 33 str?
Are we really going to try and argue that a naked thrower is overpowered?
But on the very rare occasions that both teams have clan players working in squads, THEN shit gets fun. Feels almost like a strat siege minus the nice XP.
If anything, I'd agree that KUTT has been good for siege because ** they populate it **.....
But I will say that if I'm on a shit team where everyone's running around alone and the other team is a bunch of KUTT players working together ** I'll quit ** for battle real fast rather than get team raped and enjoy a tasty 1x all day.
That's basically what we want. We have a great time whenever we're up against NH, HoC or MB...
Xeen always said the same thing, and its what we all want...
But it just didn't happen enough.
You can't nerf teamwork, and you shouldn't nerf it either. Banner balance is the best thing that ever happened to cRPG and an important reason why I still play it. A laissez-faire approach to this should solve itself. Players who enjoy siege mode but hate getting rolled by organized teams will gravitate towards joining a clan themselves which promotes more organized play. If you cater to the pubbies then you dumb down the game.
I get frustrated by the maps more than anything else.
I'd be in the 70s if I had higher rated gloves than Red Wisby, but such is the price for fashion.
Rageball is the new siege. #populaterageballgoddamnit
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Sorry to double-post but I went back and a read of the pages I'd missed from this thread, where people discuss the problem with clans using better teamwork than random pick-up groups.
A good way to help counter that would be if the Siege server welcome/MOTD message listed some public chat server for PUGs to use. Teamspeak, C3, Mumble, whatever.
I don't want to derail the topic too much but one other thing to point out about that problem is that when Spook Island was around, at least he put a lot of effort into trying to get the non-clan side of siege to organize and use tactics. Whatever else was going on, fact is that with somebody giving orders in chat, the PUGs did play better, and ever since he was banned nobody's really been doing that consistently.
I agree Artie, a public TS for siege would be good.
As far as Spook goes - you are right, he did try to bring people together, and sometimes it worked.
But lets look at three people I know who have put serious effort into doing that.
Spook Island, Demento, and my buddy Hindel.
They all expect MORE out of pubs, and try to give them direction.
And some have gotten some decent results, but they all also suffered from serious rage issues because of it :)(click to show/hide)
battle mode is so uninspired its painful. Objective play is so much better. Now if only scoring system rewarded objectives in siege so people would do it instead of just kill whoring
Really they should just get rid of Battle and Siege and just have one big server for a new game mode. This game mode would be just like Strategus battles except for it would have set even numbers of troops and people bring their own stuff. Maps would alternate between villages, castles, and random field maps.
Conquest. (http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/conquest-gametype-combine-strategus-siege-and-battle-into-1-bad-assed-mode/)
Ah fuck, I agree with Smoothrich? I wish I could minus my own post.
NA Siege has been ruined by clans min/max specializing their builds to it. Both MB and KUTT run 10-20 guys in str bauilds and 60+ armour..
Just dumb, can't compete against someone with twice your armor, can't kill them fast enough to overcome choke/flag camp or massed push.
Battle still balanced, STR builds/armor definitely do not rule when there's room to maneuver and no 3 feet wide chokes or flags but siege is now a joke balance wise.
^guy who runs around siege 36-3, 87 armor, and +3 great maul.
seriously, shut up.
Pretty sure that's just an impersonator. You may usually see two Dreadnoks running around on siege from time to time and the real Dread runs around with a strength one-hander build, often with no athletics, if I recall correctly.
EDIT: And back on topic, siege is back up again. Rejoice!
Is it back up with new map rotation?If I said "Yes", would you believe me?
^guy who runs around siege 36-3, 87 armor, and +3 great maul.
seriously, shut up.
I think the na admins (most of yous are decent :) need to be filtered. More often then not, I believe they think they are referees in some others business and tend to get involved on a personal and non-professional level. the integrity of each admin must be in place. alot of players who enrich the experience for the whole often get overtaken by an immature admin acting on impulse.
Crpg population is dying partially because of lackluster admins... right desire? :)
Guys, cmon. Don't bring the door drama here!
also could benefit from a few choice people wit the ability tochange maps.
I don't think anyone looks at it, ya know, being cRPG and all.
But yeah, a few selective players who are on siege a lot should have permissions to change the map.
Just go play EU siege. I did today and it was awsome! 97 people on the server which is so much more than NA siege has had. two summers ago NA siege was the same, now people care too much about their kdrs on NA to play anything but battle.K:D isn't recorded on Siege.
K:D isn't recorded on Siege.
So if you have a 0:0, you can't really be called bad or good.