NA Siege is Dying

[CrazyCracka420]

Nothing quite as fun as getting repeatedly bumped, kited, couched, or piked. Also nothing as fun as both teams each holding out on their respective hill, neither side attacking for over a minute. Honestly the only reason I play battle half the time is because siege is empty.

Sounds like horses and chasing after people is a weakness you could improve upon.  And pikemen aren't bad if you are fighting in a group, if you're fighting 1 v any and the any group has a pikeman, you're going to be at a disadvantage. 

Teamwork, it's what's for dinner.  Or you could just hang out in the duel server, you can be a rambo hero and not have to worry about anyone taking advantage of your weaknesses.

[Keshian]

Part of the problem is due to population variances.

When numbers are high, defense can be "easier"
When numbers are low, attack can be "easier"

This is due to the fact that with low numbers, the defense spawn timers are just too much - once too many people die, not enough spawn back in before attack takes the flag area by force.

With high numbers, attack can be a little harder because it is harder to get defense "on timers" so to speak.

Also, the strength of the doors after the first round is based on how many people are on the server, so when its more populated those can literally become unbreakable before the match ends when you have a double set of doors like in many single-players maps that are used, which leaves only 1-2 narrow outlets inside and usually for the entire round you just need a few heavy strength plate armored guys with long polearms or with crushthrough weapons and you are set because all routes are predictable and no ladders can actually be used to besiege a castle. Keep in mind ladder bridges are impossible now (ladder on top of ladder) so its  always going to be ladders by themselves needing to be well-placed.

[oprah_winfrey]

Sounds like horses and chasing after people is a weakness you could improve upon.  And pikemen aren't bad if you are fighting in a group, if you're fighting 1 v any and the any group has a pikeman, you're going to be at a disadvantage. 

Teamwork, it's what's for dinner.  Or you could just hang out in the duel server, you can be a rambo hero and not have to worry about anyone taking advantage of your weaknesses.

Saulcanner has no weakness.

[Vodner]

And pikemen aren't bad if you are fighting in a group, if you're fighting 1 v any and the any group has a pikeman, you're going to be at a disadvantage. 

Pikemen are very bad if you are fighting in a group. I know this from topfragging as one for several maps in a row, with help from the players in the Chaos teamspeak (and a few NH folks). Given a semi-competent team (or really just a small group of competent players), having a pike makes it very easy to do well - you rarely need to block, and you don't need to worry about footwork. All you have to do is sit in a blob and poke people who are busy blocking or attacking other people.

The only time piking ever becomes hard is if your entire team fans out, or if there are a lot of archers on the other team who are focusing you down.

[Xeen]

Really??!?? Lol, the most brutally demoralizing thing in crpg is to lose as attackers on siege??  Wow, your world is small, come to battle server some time where the skilled big boys play.

I played 20 gens in a row in battle. 

Suffering horrible, demoralizing losses in battle sucks too.  No doubt there.  It's just that walking for 30-45 seconds only to die horribly over and over for 3 rounds in a row seems to crush people's spirits to the point of GTXting far more consistently. 

For the record, I would EXCITEDLY support removing siege altogether if they would just make master of the field auto-pop in battle at a reasonable time or any number of other changes/new game modes. 

[oprah_winfrey]

I played 20 gens in a row in battle. 

Suffering horrible, demoralizing losses in battle sucks too.  No doubt there.  It's just that walking for 30-45 seconds only to die horribly over and over for 3 rounds in a row seems to crush people's spirits to the point of GTXting far more consistently. 

For the record, I would EXCITEDLY support removing siege altogether if they would just make master of the field auto-pop in battle at a reasonable time or any number of other changes/new game modes.

I cannot remember the last time I have seen a round draw, so I don't really see why MOTF auto-pop is what would make you play battle.

[Vodner]

I cannot remember the last time I have seen a round draw, so I don't really see why MOTF auto-pop is what would make you play battle.

MoTF popup would force both teams to immediately engage, ideally leading to faster battles with little downtime. As an additional bonus, infantry would get an indirect buff, since it's the only class that can effectively hold ground. I'm not sure if it would end up making battle better in practice, but it would be an interesting experiment.

The disadvantage is that all maps would have to be rebalanced to make sure that MoTF pops in a place that is equally accessible to both teams.

[FrugFrug]

Hmm, what do people think of when they think of me?

[Froto_the_Loc]

Hmm, what do people think of when they think of me?

Rocks. That's pretty obvious.

[FrugFrug]

Rocks. That's pretty obvious.

True, I guess that is what I'm most famous for. 

[Xeen]

MoTF popup would force both teams to immediately engage, ideally leading to faster battles with little downtime. As an additional bonus, infantry would get an indirect buff, since it's the only class that can effectively hold ground. I'm not sure if it would end up making battle better in practice, but it would be an interesting experiment.

The disadvantage is that all maps would have to be rebalanced to make sure that MoTF pops in a place that is equally accessible to both teams.

Exactly, thank you Saul. 

Here's something to think about.  We have a fully functional capture the flag mode already.  Tom, Para, and I were playing around with a handful of people in it the other day and it was fantastic.  All classes and builds would have very useful functions within that format.  Para and I have been talking about hosting a capture the flag night.  I mean, if we can get like 30 people to show up to listen to people sing awfully in our teamspeak, surely we can explore an interesting game mode.

[Turboflex]

I think battle has had way better infantry fights lately. With 100-120 people on you almost always have a big infantry clash on village streets at the beginning of the round.

Cav seems to be less obnoxious too lately, maybe that thing people complain about, with a stealth increase to repair chance is true and it's become too unaffordable. Also there seems to be a few more archers and throwers who have smartened up and actually hunt cav instead of shooting at shielders.

[Boss_Awesome]

Seems like everyone pretty much agrees.  The maps on the siege server suck.  I'd really love to see all the siege maps disappear to be replaced with strategus castle maps.  This would also require ladders and siege equipment to return and may also require timer adjustment.  It would be a lot of fun though. 

For the battle server I would like to see all the village maps from strategus re implemented.  They are much better than a lot of the maps we get stuck playing and we would have some pretty great variety.  I'd also like to see ladders return to battle so that I can sit on a roof and shoot people like the old days.   

[oprah_winfrey]

For the battle server I would like to see all the village maps from strategus re implemented.  They are much better than a lot of the maps we get stuck playing and we would have some pretty great variety.  I'd also like to see ladders return to battle so that I can sit on a roof and shoot people like the old days.   

The last thing battle needs is more village maps.

Also, If I remember correctly, NA1 used to have all the strategus villages in the rotation but were taken off some time back.

[Tears of Destiny]

So from what I got after reading this thread is that we need to ban NA.