cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Dravic on April 12, 2011, 02:48:09 pm
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Hey all.
Some of you may know, some of you may not.
Anyway, short reason why I am posting my suggestion:
Siege and Heavy crossbows are going to take 2 slots. Same with Longbow and Warbow.
Since cmpx himself told, that he is working on NON-Strategus patch, that will be realised soon, I want to suggest something:
Buff crossbows, either only siege and heavy or all of them, because soon we, crossbowmen, won't be able to use neither 2h/polearm nor 1h+shield = 1h without shield. What means, that we will be weaker. So buff us to balance it out a bit, please.
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Are you serious? You guys are one-shotting anything short of plate with your heavy crossbows.
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beter ranged weapon=worse melee weapon
I don't see the problem and I have 5 or 6 alts that use crossbows.
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The slot change is about balancing hybrids, it's not a nerf. If you want to be a hybrid you simply have to choose between having the best ranged weapon+decent melee or having best melee+decent ranged. Or you find it fair that hybrids currently can have best melee+best ranged with no disadvantage at all?
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The slot change is about balancing hybrids, it's not a nerf. If you want to be a hybrid you simply have to choose between having the best ranged weapon+decent melee or having best melee+decent ranged. Or you find it fair that hybrids currently can have best melee+best ranged with no disadvantage at all?
Well said. It's about time hybrids get changed. I play a hybrid myself, Polearm/throwing/shield/cavalry (which means I'm limited to 1 stack of javs with the slot changes), and I've got no problem adapting to the proposed changes. I really think this will be better for the game overall, though I hope we have a heirloom respec, since this is a pretty major change, for all players.
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I'm going to retire to crossbowman next gen for the fun of it and I think the upcomming changes are a great addition to the game.
No more warbow archers pulling a flameberge out of their pocket when you finally manage to get to them, or players with huge shields hiding a pike somewhere.
It encourages dedication. You can't have it all anymore, regardless of where you put your skillpoints.
I will probably play my crossbower as I play my thrower now: Load up with ammo and loot a weapon from the battlefield when needed.
Or I'll just bring a sniper crossbow, a bag of bolts and a 1h weapon. As long as you can manual block you'll do fine and you even get style points for killing people in melee that way.
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aww now i have to choose between my shield when im cav or dropping my loomed polearm :(
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About time hybrids get nerfed
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The slot change is about balancing hybrids, it's not a nerf. If you want to be a hybrid you simply have to choose between having the best ranged weapon+decent melee or having best melee+decent ranged. Or you find it fair that hybrids currently can have best melee+best ranged with no disadvantage at all?
+1 awesomebar for you, good sir.
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I don't see the problem and I have 5 or 6 alts that use crossbows.
Did you ever ask yourself, if in truth you are the only one actually playing this mod?
Hey all.
Some of you may know, some of you may not.
Anyway, short reason why I am posting my suggestion:
Siege and Heavy crossbows are going to take 2 slots. Same with Longbow and Warbow.
Since cmpx himself told, that he is working on NON-Strategus patch, that will be realised soon, I want to suggest something:
Buff crossbows, either only siege and heavy or all of them, because soon we, crossbowmen, won't be able to use neither 2h/polearm nor 1h+shield = 1h without shield. What means, that we will be weaker. So buff us to balance it out a bit, please.
I like the general idea. You can fight with 1h no shield no problem, but not kill very well. I don't really see that a big problem for crossbowmen, you'll just have to decide if you want to be infantry with a backup ranged or ranged with a backup melee weapon. You only need one slot for ammo that's enough for one round.
But for archers this seems bad. Longbow taking up two slots, what is a pure archer going to do? Load out with bow only? Seems rather campy when he is forced to stay out of melee all the time. Or take only 16 shots but then strongbow seems far better actually. I think if 2h are taking 2 slots this would convice most archers to go with 1h for an extra ammo slot.
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About time hybrids get nerfed
This right there.
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You can still take a simple xbow or a light xbow and use 1h+Shield, but as said Puni you can't be good in everything, that's why we gone to have this "slot patch" (not a slut patch).
With this system pure xbow build will have an advantage over xbow sidearm as you will be the only one to have sniper and heavy xbow
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Does someone have a post or transcript of what cmpxchg8b actually said?
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Does someone have a post or transcript of what cmpxchg8b actually said?
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3911.msg70375.html#msg70375
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hmm interesting changes ahead then?
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Hmm, 2 slots? I guess there is no reason to use the Warbow at all now, and just use the Strongbow from now on, what a shame.
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Hmm, 2 slots? I guess there is no reason to use the Warbow at all now, and just use the Strongbow from now on, what a shame.
I dont see it as that much of a problem, if they dont want archers to have a melee weapon at all then i guess they will just start running all around the map or camp unreachable places even more than now.
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How many archers in singleplayer do you see wielding 2H or Sword&Board?
Use 1H.
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http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3911.msg70375.html#msg70375
aahh a censored thingy. Not sure if that is clever or an oversight.
Wonder if this will screw my pure polearm build of glaive + elegant poleaxe.
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How many archers in singleplayer do you see wielding 2H or Sword&Board?
Use 1H.
That does nothing to fix the problem that my archer uses a heir loomed warbow, regardless of if I use a 1Her or a 2Her, I still lack the slots to use it, seeing as using just 1 quiver of arrows is insanity for an archer considering how fast you can chew through them.
1Her + Warbow = 1 free slot for ammo. *Shrugs*
In this case I will just pack the warbow, two quivers, and take out all of my PS and sink it into Athletics for future builds. Should induce a lot more rage for the enemy...
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That does nothing to fix the problem that my archer uses a heir loomed warbow, regardless of if I use a 1Her or a 2Her, I still lack the slots to use it, seeing as using just 1 quiver of arrows is insanity for an archer considering how fast you can chew through them.
1Her + Warbow = 1 free slot for ammo. *Shrugs*
In this case I will just pack the warbow, two quivers, and take out all of my PS and sink it into Athletics for future builds. Should induce a lot more rage for the enemy...
Well I guess you'll have to spend your arrows more wisely now :)
Tbh I agree with the change, there's too much ranged going on as it is, even more on NA servers than EU (atleast from what I experienced). Making the stronger bows have only 1 ammo quiver reduces the amount of ranged "spam".
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How many archers in singleplayer do you see wielding 2H or Sword&Board?
Use 1H.
If thats what they were aiming for then making 2handed weapons take 2 slots would have done the trick, not the other way around.
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So .. Sniper xbow + Great Sword = no more slots to get bolts ?
At least we'll get rid of the xbow/shielders
And I also support the throwing weapons taking 2 slots. I even wanted to be only 1 stack max but no one to second that idea :P (as if in real life people go in battle fields with 2 stacks of heavy throwing axes (8). Mini-Javs maybe , but 8 spears or 8 heavy axes .. bs ! :P
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Well I guess you'll have to spend your arrows more wisely now :)
Tbh I agree with the change, there's too much ranged going on as it is, even more on NA servers than EU (atleast from what I experienced). Making the stronger bows have only 1 ammo quiver reduces the amount of ranged "spam".
ya lets buff melee more, it takes alot of arrows to drop one avg guy... u can bring like 19 into battle, if u miss a few times(you will) your boned, the long bow seems even more useless...
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I don't see why everyone is freaking out. If you bring a Xbow into battle with bolts and a sword/1h why not just shoot off a couple rounds then pick up a fallen enemies polearm/2h when needed.
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So .. Sniper xbow + Great Sword = no more slots to get bolts ?
At least we'll get rid of the xbow/shielders
And I also support the throwing weapons taking 2 slots. I even wanted to be only 1 stack max but no one to second that idea :P (as if in real life people go in battle fields with 2 stacks of heavy throwing axes (8). Mini-Javs maybe , but 8 spears or 8 heavy axes .. bs ! :P
one stack max is a bone head idea, if its 2 solts all u can bring is a max of 8 axes, or 4 lances... and i bet no one will do that. i hope there cutting the cost of lances since there nerfing them o.o
it went form 8 to 4, shouldnt cost 550 to fix, i mean it already has the highest STR needed in the game
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If thats what they were aiming for then making 2handed weapons take 2 slots would have done the trick, not the other way around.
I think 2 handed weps are taking 2 slots next patch. Some even 3.
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If anyone wants details, you can just pm me, because I hate when people have no idea what is going on with their builds.
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The slot change is about balancing hybrids, it's not a nerf. If you want to be a hybrid you simply have to choose between having the best ranged weapon+decent melee or having best melee+decent ranged. Or you find it fair that hybrids currently can have best melee+best ranged with no disadvantage at all?
I dare to disagree.
It is a nerf. And badly made IMHO. Yoy still can have sniper xbow + greatsword (only flamberge will take 2 slots afaik), but you can't have practice dagger + arena shield + heavy xbow. You can not have ANY shield with decent xbow. That makes decent xbows obsolete, due to the fact that xbowman/archers are not melee! They rarely use 2H weapon, and they need to divide wpf between 1h/2h and xbow, or in case of the archers, even powerdraw.
If you really want to limit the amount of weapons used at the same time, it may be easier to limit the total weight of weapons that can be carried. It is more natural and more intuitive.
I dont see it as that much of a problem, if they dont want archers to have a melee weapon at all then i guess they will just start running all around the map or camp unreachable places even more than now.
+1 to that, Dear Sir. This will discourage any ranged to participate in melee fights.
Overall I think it will buff twohanders. Even more. Additionally, it means that upkeep did not do the job, obviously. Maybe it is to cheap to upkeep weapons now?
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I dare to disagree.
It is a nerf. And badly made IMHO. Yoy still can have sniper xbow + greatsword (only flamberge will take 2 slots afaik), but you can't have practice dagger + arena shield + heavy xbow. You can not have ANY shield with decent xbow. That makes decent xbows obsolete, due to the fact that xbowman/archers are not melee! They rarely use 2H weapon, and they need to divide wpf between 1h/2h and xbow, or in case of the archers, even powerdraw.
All 2H will be 2 slots (even 1h/2h ones like Longsword), Flamberge will be 3 slots. Same for polearms, all at least 2 slots, longer ones 3 slots.
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I hardly know anything about those new item modes, so as an outsider I can say: Awesome, finally some gameplay changes. Adds more depth to the game. Can't wait to test it out.
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Don't troll. Cmpx said that on IRC, it must be true. You may don't know what exactly will this patch bring, but I am sure you knew cmpx is working on a patch. He is your right hand...
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Don't troll.
:D
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All 2H will be 2 slots (even 1h/2h ones like Longsword), Flamberge will be 3 slots. Same for polearms, all at least 2 slots, longer ones 3 slots.
Aha, so effectively you cannot carry 1h+shield and a decent xbow, and you cannot carry ANY 2h and a decent xbow. Carrying sniper/heavy xbow without any melee is suicidal. Aaaah, just remove them from the game, it is simpler.
I hardly know anything about those new item modes, so as an outsider I can say: Awesome, finally some gameplay changes. Adds more depth to the game. Can't wait to test it out.
I dare say it does not bring more depth to the game. It makes it more shallow.....
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Don't troll. Cmpx said that on IRC, it must be true. You may don't know what exactly will this patch bring, but I am sure you knew cmpx is working on a patch. He is your right hand...
You managed to confuse me. All you said is true. All i can add is
...so?
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You managed to confuse me. All you said is true. All i can add is
...so?
Now, that's trolling :D chadz, you are the first pilot in this plane, just think the changes over, ok?
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Aha, so effectively you cannot carry 1h+shield and a decent xbow, and you cannot carry ANY 2h and a decent xbow. Carrying sniper/heavy xbow without any melee is suicidal.
So use a 1hander?
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So use a 1hander?
Without shield, against twohanders and onehanders with shield. Brilliant idea. C'mon....
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Without shield, against twohanders and onehanders with shield. Brilliant idea. C'mon....
Well, you wouldn't have the reach I guess, and you would have to manual block (like 2handers do). And you'll be more vulnerable to stuns.
But on the plus side, you'll look really cool.
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Well, you wouldn't have the reach I guess, and you would have to manual block (like 2handers do). And you'll be more vulnerable to stuns.
But on the plus side, you'll look really cool.
Like "wow, you died in so cool and picturesque way I did make a screenshot"? :D
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Without shield, against twohanders and onehanders with shield. Brilliant idea. C'mon....
That is the cost if you want to keep one shotting people with sniper xbows.
Maybe take a weaker xbow and a shield then?
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Erasmas means that a lot of shield+1h + siege xbow can't actually manual block. I think he is one of them.
Don't nerf Erasmas!
Anyway, we will see what will happen. Won't we?
EDIT
Oh, ONESHOTTING PEOPLE? When? Prepatch? Wake up, that dream is not true.
yeah, 1shot peasants and agi stackers when their lvl is <20. Because when such agi stacker hit some athletics, running back saves your life vs sniper xbow.
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chadz, you are the first pilot in this plane, just think the changes over, ok?
I thought people know by now that I know jack shit about item balance, fighting gamebalance, etc. I'm probably one of the worst players around, I know nothing about damage calculation or the impact of AGI on the swing speed. I don't really care, either. If you ask me to buff or nerf item xyz, I probably wouldn't even know that this item exists. All items I do know are those in my inventory.
That's why I have a team that does item balances. And I trust them. And all I'm saying is that I like the upcoming change from what I've heard. Not more. Not less.
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Erasmas means that a lot of shield+1h + siege xbow can't actually manual block. I think he is one of them.
Don't nerf Erasmas!
+1 to that, it is true. There is a reason why I use shield. I can learn the manual block, see you in a couple of months :D In more serious note - "Do not nerf casual players" is more suitable.
And all I'm saying is that I like the upcoming change from what I've heard. Not more. Not less.
I usually trust your judgments. But in this one I am a little worried about the overall game effects...
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OK, no xbow buffs...
HOWEVER, personally, I think that there has to be one buff for both archers and crossbowmen - more ammunition/stack. If someone is willing to use Sniper crossbow as a DEDICATED crossbowman, he can really easily run out of ammo. 175 wpf and I ran out of ammo during 1 4minutes round, what then should I do without good melee weapon and shield?
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OK, no xbow buffs...
HOWEVER, personally, I think that there has to be one buff for both archers and crossbowmen - more ammunition/stack. If someone is willing to use Sniper crossbow as a DEDICATED crossbowman, he can really easily run out of ammo. 175 wpf and I ran out of ammo during 1 4minutes round, what then should I do without good melee weapon and shield?
Pick them up from the ground :P
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There will be a few 1 slot 2h weapons and polearms. The spiked mace is an example for that, the spear and shortened spear are for polearms. I hope to expand the 1 slot selection sometime but for that we need models. In my opinion non-hammer 2h handed weapons with a reach of 70-90 are perfect for the 1 slot thingy and polearms with about 100-130 reach.
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The idea of more slots for certain weapons is ingenious - I believe it will add A LOT to variety of the game, we will see more combinations of various weapons and less ranged spam (especially long distance spam). My archer Beau with warbow fully approves! (i take 1h weapon since beginning anyways and finally i will learn at what range it makes sense to shoot :o)
btw changing your heirlooms should be a must after the patch
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Yeah, now I see the point of this next patch.
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I believe it will add A LOT to variety of the game, we will see more combinations of various weapons
How come? What you will see is 1h+shield and 2H only/mostly. It does not adding variety, on the contrary, it is for melee clash battle lovers... It is not good at all.
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at first I was like "what is this what why would no I don't get what are you doing is this a troll"
But now I am like "Well, there better be an heirloom & character stat re-allocation on such a huge game impacting patch."
So far I'm Ok with all of what I hear. Would love to see some preliminary patch notes, even if they are not final.
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dude they will just be dicks and take 90% of your heirlooms and let you respect the 1 u have left... :(
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FREEDOM!
[17:45:42] <@Urist> shik, bamboo drop only but 2 slots
[17:47:20] <@Meow> hmm
[17:47:49] <@Meow> same for pike tbo. 3 slots for the only melee anti cav weapon is kinda hardcore if it will be your primary weapon
[17:47:53] <@Meow> if pike gets 3
[17:49:24] <@Meow> tbh even
[17:49:47] * Tor_ ([email protected]) Quit (Signed off)
[17:50:19] * SirCymro ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout)
[17:51:42] * @Urist ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout)
[17:53:39] <@cmpxchg8b> well, no-sheath is hardcore too
[17:53:50] <@Meow> i agree
[17:53:51] <@cmpxchg8b> this will be a pretty huge buff to cav
[17:54:02] <@cmpxchg8b> -> nerf cav
[17:54:03] <@Meow> that's why i think no-sheath should be 1 slot
[17:54:16] <@Meow> then again...
[17:54:22] <@Meow> that would fail with the flamberge and stuff
[17:54:28] <@Meow> also do you pay upkeep for the no sheath stuff?
[17:54:37] <@cmpxchg8b> of course
[17:54:44] <@Meow> k
[17:54:56] <@Meow> even if you drop it?
[17:55:09] <@cmpxchg8b> like it is now
[17:55:13] <@cmpxchg8b> you pay for items you spawn with
[17:55:16] <@Meow> k
[17:55:29] <@Meow> also autorepair forced on right?
[17:55:37] <@Meow> unrelated
[17:55:42] <@Meow> that is
[17:55:49] <@cmpxchg8b> dunno
[17:55:52] <@cmpxchg8b> chadz' stuff
[17:55:57] <@Meow> k
[17:56:06] <@cmpxchg8b> that bug should be already fixed though
[17:56:14] <@Meow> k
[17:56:16] <@cmpxchg8b> i think ch ad z wrote it in the forum
[17:56:37] <Templar_Casimir> Hey what about the long maul
[17:56:41] <Templar_Casimir> guessign that will be drop only?
[17:56:47] <@cmpxchg8b> i think so
[17:56:54] <@cmpxchg8b> either drop only or 3 slots
[17:57:06] <Templar_Casimir> so my 2 heirloomed weapons will be unusable together :L
[17:57:08] <Templar_Casimir> Goddamn
[17:57:29] <@cmpxchg8b> dunno if a heirloom reset is planned
[17:57:42] <Templar_Casimir> im against heirloom reset
[17:57:50] <Templar_Casimir> people who loom side swords / bar maces should be stuck with them
[17:57:53] <@cmpxchg8b> me too
[17:57:57] <@Meow> same here
[18:02:16] <Mylet> agreed
[18:03:25] <@Meow> not even for the part that people loomed op weapons but just for the fact that everyone will be using the same weapon after a day if they can just insta tripple loom it
[18:03:37] <Kophka> so, for example, how would this affect my load out : Battlefork, Shield, Javs x2
[18:03:49] <@Meow> 1x jav instead i'd say
[18:03:54] <Kophka> okay
[18:03:56] <@Meow> not knowing the slots
[18:04:00] <@Meow> just saying
[18:04:10] <Kophka> and my light xbow, longsword, boardshield, bolts guys?
[18:04:18] <@Meow> should be fine
[18:04:21] <@Meow> not sure any shield gets 2
[18:04:28] <@Meow> maybe hurscarl and board?
[18:04:32] <Kophka> hmm
[18:04:37] <@Meow> no idea tho
[18:04:38] <Kophka> so the xbow guy loses nothing
[18:04:39] <@Meow> but those are huge
[18:04:42] <Kophka> not cool
[18:04:54] <@Meow> light xbow
[18:05:05] <Braeden> Sniper / Heavy xbow two slots?
[18:05:13] <@Meow> not sure but i think
[18:05:51] <Braeden> Will my horse now require two horse slots?
[18:05:54] <Braeden> Its a big horse.
[18:06:03] <@Meow> 3
[18:06:15] <Kophka> how about my sidesword, heavy kite shield, heavy throwing axe, throwing spear guy?
[18:06:24] <@cmpxchg8b> sniper/heavy = 2 slots
[18:06:27] <@cmpxchg8b> board/huscarl = 2 slots
[18:06:32] <Braeden> He gets delete, Kophka, for sidesword carrying.
[18:06:36] <Braeden> *deleted
[18:06:41] <Kophka> sad, but well deserved
[18:06:44] <Shogunate_Arked> and bolts are 1 slot?
[18:06:48] <@cmpxchg8b> ofc
[18:06:53] <Kophka> if i had a character like that, I'd honestly expect it
[18:06:57] <Shogunate_Arked> 2h becoming 2 slots too?
[18:07:03] <@cmpxchg8b> yeah
[18:07:05] <@cmpxchg8b> maybe some of them 3
[18:07:06] <Shogunate_Arked> lol
[18:07:09] <Braeden> All or just the big ones?
[18:07:13] <@cmpxchg8b> all 2
[18:07:13] <Shogunate_Arked> so i cant use nodachi and xbow?
[18:07:18] <Kophka> oh, so the longsword = 2 slots?
[18:07:19] <@cmpxchg8b> maul/mallet/great maul 3
[18:07:22] <Kophka> awesome
[18:07:23] <Braeden> Even the tiny ones?
[18:07:26] <@Meow> not the big xbows
[18:07:30] <@cmpxchg8b> you can use nodachi and crossbow/light crossbow
[18:07:43] <Shogunate_Arked> dam
[18:07:46] <@Meow> flamberge 3 and no drop?
[18:07:48] <Shogunate_Arked> i loomed my sniper
[18:07:49] <@cmpxchg8b> just not heavy/siege
[18:07:50] <@Meow> err no sheath?
[18:08:22] <Kophka> i may sound like i'm bitching guys, but I honestly cannot wait to see the changes
[18:08:27] * Belmont ([email protected]) has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[18:08:29] <@cmpxchg8b> flamberge 2/3 and no-sheath i guess
[18:08:31] <Kophka> i'm just excited
[18:08:39] <@Meow> nice
[18:08:40] <@cmpxchg8b> well Kophka, i stil lhave to code them
[18:08:44] <Braeden> Spiked Mace 2 slots?
[18:08:45] <Kophka> poo
[18:08:53] <@cmpxchg8b> Braeden is it 2h?
[18:08:59] <Braeden> Yeah
[18:09:00] <Serfonz> Every single 2h going to be 2 / 3 slots?
[18:09:05] <@cmpxchg8b> yes
[18:09:06] <Braeden> But smaller than most 1h
[18:09:24] <Belmont> What about the 1/2 handed weapons?
[18:09:26] <@Meow> it's about balancing not really about looks
[18:09:29] <Belmont> Bastard, Longsword, Katana
[18:09:34] <@cmpxchg8b> right
[18:09:35] <@cmpxchg8b> length 70
[18:09:42] <@cmpxchg8b> that one may be put to 1
[18:09:46] <@cmpxchg8b> *might
[18:09:52] <@cmpxchg8b> Belmont, 2 probably
[18:10:11] <Braeden> Nice
[18:10:15] <Belmont> *looks for someone to trade a masterwork sniper*
[18:10:20] <Shogunate_Arked> same
[18:10:22] <Shogunate_Arked>
[18:10:25] <Kophka> should 100+, or 110+ be 2 slots maybe?
[18:10:33] <Braeden> You want to get rid of it, Belmont, or you want one?
[18:10:37] <Belmont> Rid of it
[18:10:37] <@cmpxchg8b> well, it's not length based only
[18:10:40] <Shogunate_Arked> we want to get rid
[18:10:42] <@Meow> no doing that by lenth is bs
[18:10:45] <@cmpxchg8b> 1hs won't be 2 slot
[18:10:45] <Braeden> I'll take it!
[18:10:45] <@Meow> lenght that is
[18:10:49] <Shogunate_Arked> maybe u want 2 braeden?
[18:10:53] <Shogunate_Arked>
[18:11:03] <Braeden> I'll give you 10k gold
[18:11:09] <Braeden> Thats totally fair.
[18:11:11] * Braeden eyeshifts
[18:11:25] <@cmpxchg8b> i doubt they want gold
[18:11:32] <Braeden> Oh wait! Fix strat at the same time as trading comes out.
[18:11:32] * Shogunate_Sonja ([email protected]) has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[18:11:37] <Braeden> So I can trade land for things.
[18:12:05] <Mylet> I evade a pike thrust and he still gets me by turning while it's extended -.-
[18:12:08] <@Meow> not sure there will be a secure trading system for land <--> items
[18:12:08] <Belmont> Oh yeah cmpx, will the trading system be in this patch or will that have to wait until the Strategus patch?
[18:12:30] <Braeden> Secure - schemure
[18:12:30] <@cmpxchg8b> i don't know much about the trading system tbh
[18:12:38] <@cmpxchg8b> i guess it's cha dz' stuff
[18:12:58] <Belmont> I see, thanks for the answer
[18:13:01] <@cmpxchg8b> haven't heard anything about it, so i doubt it's planned for this one
[18:13:02] <Nemeth> so basicly hybrids are now stuck with range/one hand
[18:13:03] <Nemeth> ?
[18:13:07] <@cmpxchg8b> yes
[18:13:10] <Nemeth> cool
[18:13:12] <Nemeth> im fine with that
[18:13:13] <@cmpxchg8b> ranged+sidearm
[18:13:20] <Nemeth> even though I suck with 1h
[18:13:28] <Braeden> Or lesser ranged as the sidearm
[18:13:33] <@cmpxchg8b> yep
[18:13:39] <Braeden> Basically hybrids have to prioritize
[18:13:45] <Nemeth> very good
[18:13:47] <Braeden> Unless they are throwers, in which case they have to loot.
[18:13:48] <+_Punisher> these slots changes are for the upcoming patch or for later?
[18:13:54] <@cmpxchg8b> upcoming hopefully
[18:13:58] <+_Punisher> would be awesome
[18:14:07] <@cmpxchg8b> i'll start coding tomorrow
[18:14:13] <@cmpxchg8b> so best case = done by tomorrow
[18:14:16] <+_Punisher> trading system coming now too ?
[18:14:17] <Nemeth> ^^
[18:14:29] <Braeden> He just answered that one, Punisher
[18:14:32] <Nemeth> afaik trading comes with strategus?
[18:14:34] <+_Punisher> sry, i was in-game
[18:14:36] <@cmpxchg8b> was the trading system announced by cha dz?
[18:14:46] <+_Punisher> he announced it a while ago
[18:14:49] <+_Punisher> like a month back
[18:14:52] <@cmpxchg8b> ah ok
[18:14:54] <@Meow> it was in the strategus sneak peak
[18:14:54] <@cmpxchg8b> missed that one
[18:15:03] <@Meow> i would say strategus not crpg patch
[18:15:07] <Shogunate_Arked> cmp, will throwng weapons still take 1 slot per stack? its weird that someone can carry 12 axes on him (if someone asked about that already, sorry)
[18:15:21] <Braeden> I can totally carry 12 axes IRL
[18:15:23] <@cmpxchg8b> most will
[18:15:25] <@Meow> can we stop using semi realism for balancing?
[18:15:48] <@cmpxchg8b> lances will be no-sheath i think
[18:15:50] <Kophka> javelins, 1 slot or 2?
[18:15:50] * Templar_Casimir ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout)
[18:15:54] <@cmpxchg8b> so effectively limited to 2
[18:15:54] <@Meow> nice
[18:16:02] <@cmpxchg8b> or 3 if we up ammo
[18:16:04] <@Meow> makes sense
[18:16:13] <+_Punisher> jarids should be 2 slots maybe
[18:16:21] <@cmpxchg8b> javelins and jarids, not sure yet whether 1 or 2
[18:16:44] <Kophka> javelins are pretty small in the hand
[18:34:44] <Nemeth> Sorry if was asked, but how is it with slotting with throwing weapons? Lances are drop only, do any other get more slots as well as 2h etc?
[18:34:54] <@cmpxchg8b> Nemeth, maybe spears and jarids get 2
[03:22:14] <karasu> how many slots on bows btw?
[03:22:27] <@cmpxchg8b> 2 on war/long, rest 1
[03:22:44] <@cmpxchg8b> not 100% sure yet though
Take that Mylet!
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you should publish expected changes - list of weapons with slot number and sheat option before coding it so you give players some 24hours for discussion.
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How come? What you will see is 1h+shield and 2H only/mostly. It does not adding variety, on the contrary, it is for melee clash battle lovers... It is not good at all.
you will see all kinds of xbows, all kinds of bows... (i'd make strong bow 2 slots too - even now some people prefer it over warbow). there will be way more pure 1handers. melee hybrids won't be to affected. there will be less long distance ranged spam. a lot of people without shields or with shields but stronger weapons. people with strong shields (huscarl) will not be able to have 1h + anticav weapon... i like it.
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~In regards to Heirloom re-allocation. The point presented against it being = "People who heirloomed over powered weapon should be punished."
Thought this needed to be in this thread, too.
Speed bump mentality is not how you do anything, let alone something with the purpose of being fun.
"To prevent a handful of people from having a little more, we make sure EVERYONE has less."
Hope that works out for you. And no, I am not one of the abusers of some OP weapon like a barmace.
Also, the whole point of balance is to eliminate "the next Uber cool weapon".
Don't punish everyone because of a few.
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you should publish expected changes - list of weapons with slot number and sheat option before coding it so you give players some 24hours for discussion.
We can't publish expected changes, simply because we don't have a finished list yet. But apparently that doesn't stop people from making things up and whining about them.
For those saying that this is just meant to remediate the failure of upkeep: I have no idea what you're talking about. Upkeep was meant to make mid-tier weapons and especially mid-tier armor more attractive, and it succeeded at that. This change tackles a different problem ("jack of all trades, master of all" hybrids) and is by no means replacing upkeep.
PS: if you're trying to influence the dev team's opinions, you might want to try with constructive criticism instead of whine. The latter just doesn't work.
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What would a "no-sheath" mean?
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If you switch weapons or try to sheath weapon that is "no-sheath" you will drop it on the ground.
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If you switch weapons or try to sheath weapon that is "no-sheath" you will drop it on the ground.
Ah, nice. I guess that could work with some weapons.
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What Nemeth said. It applies to weapons that are too big to be visible when sheathed (pocket pike, pocket flamberge...).
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For great justice this shalt be done
[17:57:29] <@cmpxchg8b> dunno if a heirloom reset is planned
[17:57:42] <Templar_Casimir> im against heirloom reset
[17:57:50] <Templar_Casimir> people who loom side swords / bar maces should be stuck with them
[17:57:53] <@cmpxchg8b> me too
[17:57:57] <@Meow> same here
[18:02:16] <Mylet> agreed
Unlucky fuckers!
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Warbow becoming 2 slots would be reason to drop it for a strong bow.
Mostly because I need the extra slot for arrows.
If only 2h/polearms would be 2 slots that'd cause me to grab a 1 hand without a second thought.
Sort of attached to my 2 slots of arrows.
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Warbow becoming 2 slots would be reason to drop it for a strong bow.
Mostly because I need the extra slot for arrows.
We're not yet sure about making the top 2 (or 3) bows use 2 slots. If it comes to that, they will probably get a buff so they are a viable choice for "quality vs. quantity" archers.
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regarding bows
the situation atm is, that both strongbow and warbow are used by high lvl archers which is good.
if you make warbow 2 slots (which i like) and strongbow 1 slot, than immediately warbows becomes useless - imo this is not desired situation.
on contrary if you make strongbow 2 slots too we still will see both strongbows and warbows and in addition to that we might get to see more kinds of other bows on battlefield (khergit bow for example) as this will be a choice for those archers, that want to keep more arrows or better weapons.
if you plan to buff warbow damage while keeping 1 slot for strongbow, i'm fine with that too - but then i'm sure it won't bring archers with khergit bow (or nomad bow or whatever is below stongbow, i don't really remember). still it is a good option too imo, i somehow also dont really like relatively small strongbow to take 2 slots.
btw i heard somewhere that longbow is for 3 slots, but i suppose its BS and the original plan stays - same shooting speed, but some nasty piercing damage instead.
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regarding bows
the situation atm is, that both strongbow and warbow are used by high lvl archers which is good.
if you make warbow 2 slots (which i like) and strongbow 1 slot, than immediately warbows becomes useless - imo this is not desired situation.
on contrary if you make strongbow 2 slots too we still will see both strongbows and warbows and in addition to that we might get to see more kinds of other bows on battlefield (khergit bow for example) as this will be a choice for those archers, that want to keep more arrows or better weapons.
if you plan to buff warbow damage while keeping 1 slot for strongbow, i'm fine with that too - but then i'm sure it won't bring archers with khergit bow (or nomad bow or whatever is below stongbow, i don't really remember). still it is a good option too imo, i somehow also dont really like relatively small strongbow to take 2 slots.
I don't think that making strong bow 2 slot weapon would increase the usage of khergit or nomad bow. Most strong bow users would probably go for warbow or longbow in that situation (me for example). I tried playing with khergit bow after archery nerf and I'd say the bow was completely useless. 7 PD and 5 arrows to kill a fellow archer in light armor was a bit too much - not to mention the projectile speed (or the lack of it).
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For great justice this shalt be done
[17:57:29] <@cmpxchg8b> dunno if a heirloom reset is planned
[17:57:42] <Templar_Casimir> im against heirloom reset
[17:57:50] <Templar_Casimir> people who loom side swords / bar maces should be stuck with them
[17:57:53] <@cmpxchg8b> me too
[17:57:57] <@Meow> same here
[18:02:16] <Mylet> agreed
Unlucky fuckers!
So too fuck up few you fuck up the rest too.
I dont have a problem with this because it doesnt hurt me.
Im pure 2h and so the new slotsystem doesnt affect my looms neither i loomed any of the op weapons.
But there are also players which didnt heirloom those weapons and will be very much affected by those changes.
If you dont allow respec of heirlooms just to fuck up those op-players i dont think you have chosen the right decision.
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btw i heard somewhere that longbow is for 3 slots, but i suppose its BS and the original plan stays - same shooting speed, but some nasty piercing damage instead
23 piercing. yes, it would be overpowered archer weapon with 16 arrows and 48 speed.
Ive got even better idea, lets make longbow 4 slot weapon. just for lulz.
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For great justice this shalt be done
[17:57:29] <@cmpxchg8b> dunno if a heirloom reset is planned
[17:57:42] <Templar_Casimir> im against heirloom reset
[17:57:50] <Templar_Casimir> people who loom side swords / bar maces should be stuck with them
[17:57:53] <@cmpxchg8b> me too
[17:57:57] <@Meow> same here
[18:02:16] <Mylet> agreed
Unlucky fuckers!
Just to clarify, when I say I'm against it I'm simply expressing my opinion. It's chadz' decision whether to reset them or not.
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Hey all.
Some of you may know, some of you may not.
Anyway, short reason why I am posting my suggestion:
Siege and Heavy crossbows are going to take 2 slots. Same with Longbow and Warbow.
Since cmpx himself told, that he is working on NON-Strategus patch, that will be realised soon, I want to suggest something:
Buff crossbows, either only siege and heavy or all of them, because soon we, crossbowmen, won't be able to use neither 2h/polearm nor 1h+shield = 1h without shield. What means, that we will be weaker. So buff us to balance it out a bit, please.
Yeah , just nerf bows even more .... now we cant even have many arrows
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Just to clarify, when I say I'm against it I'm simply expressing my opinion. It's chadz' decision whether to reset them or not.
I see what you did there :(
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These changes sound awesome and will add a lot of variety in builds and make people actually think about what they want to carry instead of just taking everything they want.
With regards to bows I like the idea that the longbow and warbow use 2 slots, but I also think that they should get a buff then since their only viable weapon choice would be a 1h weapon or the small 2h weapons (if indeed some of them are 1 slot).
I think really what you should look at for those bows that require 2 slots even would be to increase the speed at which the arrows travel, and maybe not so much the damage specifically. Make those 2 slot bows more of a sniper style weapon with good projectile speed that would in then make them more effective and accurate instead of just the run of the mill damage stats.
This way you can be an archer, or you can be a mutha&%^$^# ARCHER!
EDIT: That way the archers that feel that it really got nerfed because of that can once again gain some of that projectile speed back but at a cost.
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Are you serious? You guys are one-shotting anything short of plate with your heavy crossbows.
No.
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there is absolutely zero reason to not offer hierloom respecs, other than to piss people off.
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For great justice this shalt be done
[17:57:29] <@cmpxchg8b> dunno if a heirloom reset is planned
[17:57:42] <Templar_Casimir> im against heirloom reset
[17:57:50] <Templar_Casimir> people who loom side swords / bar maces should be stuck with them
[17:57:53] <@cmpxchg8b> me too
[17:57:57] <@Meow> same here
[18:02:16] <Mylet> agreed
Unlucky fuckers!
Cold as ice :lol:
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People that heirloomed sideswords won't be affected at all. A lot of people that heirloomed Barmace don't hybridize, so it won't affect the ones that just went pure 2 hander.
:mrgreen:
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People that heirloomed sideswords won't be affected at all. A lot of people that heirloomed Barmace don't hybridize, so it won't affect the ones that just went pure 2 hander.
:mrgreen:
That is my point. It will not hurt anyone except for hybrids. And even that would be fine, but taking away shields from hybrid shielders is not fair.
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They didn't take it away, now you can't use the best range in the game AND have a shield.
You want your shield, use a weaker crossbow.
otherwise you would use your shield to get to an optimal range position, then go to town using the best range weapon in the game. Effectively making you a super range tank, and if you can't understand why that should be changed then quit now and save everyone the grief of explaining it to you over and over again.
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No.
Last night two separate individuals, both wearing heraldic mails with tabard I shot (without rain) at relatively close range twice in the center of the body with a masterwork sniper xbow and steel bolts, neither one died. The first one I asked and he said he had 7 ironflesh. Even with 7 ironflesh and 21 strength, that would require a 95 pierce weapon to have its damage reduced to less than 35 damage for him to have survived the 2 hits. Considering how slow it is, its strange that the highest level xbow's damage actually is nowhere near what it says it is against even medium armor.
Also, is anything else coming out with this new patch regarding retirement or polearm stun or throwing??
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Well, the only real issue I see is that you can't even play the classic vanilla Warband crossbowman -- board shield, 1h and xbow. You have to have both a small shield and a weak xbow to make it possible to have those three item types and a stack of bolts. So that's kind of a bummer. I guess it's better than nerfing xbows outright, though.
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In all honesty this patch will allow for the rebuffing of certain weapons since it would actually be a trade off.
Xbow was nerfed because of the WPF problem and because the xbow could be used with any other build.
Now you would have to be dedicated and have only the option of a 1h weapon so it would justify returning the weapons to their previous levels.
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They didn't take it away, now you can't use the best range in the game AND have a shield.
You want your shield, use a weaker crossbow.
otherwise you would use your shield to get to an optimal range position, then go to town using the best range weapon in the game. Effectively making you a super range tank, and if you can't understand why that should be changed then quit now and save everyone the grief of explaining it to you over and over again.
That is not the case. If using weaker xbow with top shield is ok, so why using top xbow with weak shield and weak 1h is not OK. In close distance you are not ranged, you have to defend manually. That is why the wpf requirement should be added, not an artificial slot manipulation.
I guess it's better than nerfing xbows outright, though.
i am not so sure...
In all honesty this patch will allow for the rebuffing of certain weapons since it would actually be a trade off.
Xbow was nerfed because of the WPF problem and because the xbow could be used with any other build.
Now you would have to be dedicated and have only the option of a 1h weapon so it would justify returning the weapons to their previous levels.
It will not mean buffing sniper xbows, c'mon, they will stay as they are. What will happen is limitation of the xbowmans' ability to defend themselves.....
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I play dedicated pure 1h build and use the elite cavalry shield exclusively and I do fine even in the thickest of combats.
So don't tell me that taking a shield other then the huscarl isn't enough for you.
Now the huscarl only goes to dedicated 1h fighters and not to hybrids, and the hybrids have to use other shields.
It only makes sense.
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I play dedicated pure 1h build and use the elite cavalry shield exclusively and I do fine even in the thickest of combats.
So don't tell me that taking a shield other then the huscarl isn't enough for you.
Now the huscarl only goes to dedicated 1h fighters and not to hybrids, and the hybrids have to use other shields.
It only makes sense.
+ 1 I do not use huscarl as well. The problem is that I will not be able to use ANY shield.
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These changes have just as much potential to ruin someone's favorite equipment as the addition of upkeep did. I hope that the decision to allow or not allow reallocation of heirlooms will be viewed with the same seriousness.
[17:57:42] <Templar_Casimir> im against heirloom reset
[17:57:50] <Templar_Casimir> people who loom side swords / bar maces should be stuck with them
Please stop using this sort of logic. A lot of equipment and playing styles that people do not consider overpowered would be affected by these changes as well.
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... like Sniper Crossbow + 1h + shield (case of Erasmas, Harpag and many others), pure polearm cavalry with Polearm, Polearm and shield, etc.
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+ 1 I do not use huscarl as well. The problem is that I will not be able to use ANY shield.
Don't take your sniper xbow than if you want your shield.
If you want your sniper xbow than you will just have to use a 1h sword only.
Middle of both, or best of one.
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Last night two separate individuals, both wearing heraldic mails with tabard I shot (without rain) at relatively close range twice in the center of the body with a masterwork sniper xbow and steel bolts, neither one died. The first one I asked and he said he had 7 ironflesh. Even with 7 ironflesh and 21 strength, that would require a 95 pierce weapon to have its damage reduced to less than 35 damage for him to have survived the 2 hits. Considering how slow it is, its strange that the highest level xbow's damage actually is nowhere near what it says it is against even medium armor.
Also, is anything else coming out with this new patch regarding retirement or polearm stun or throwing??
And i get one shoted by xbows wearing herladic transitional with 3 IF, i think its a speed bonus thing.
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Don't take your sniper xbow than if you want your shield.
If you want your sniper xbow than you will just have to use a 1h sword only.
Middle of both, or best of one.
In other words, you have to be a super melee fighter, with fabulous manual in order to be high tier ranged??? Where is the logic of that.... Many players use mainly xbows BECAUSE it does not require manual... 1h and shield is a set for me, and I can live with a low tier ones, it does not have to be (and is not at the moment) the best one.
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In other words, you have to be a super melee fighter, with fabulous manual in order to be high tier ranged??? Where is the logic of that.... Many players use mainly xbows BECAUSE it does not require manual... 1h and shield is a set for me, and I can live with a low tier ones, it does not (and is not at the moment) have to be the best one.
Yes. Deal with it, sucker. What do you expect? Shooting people with 80+ pierce damage from afar, then switch to a shield and backpeddal to safety? If you wanna be high tier xbowman, get some skills in melee so you can defend yourself with 1h.
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Yes. Deal with it, sucker. What do you expect? Shooting people with 80+ pierce damage from afar, then switch to a shield and backpeddal to safety? If you wanna be high tier xbowman, get some skills in melee so you can defend yourself with 1h.
No need for insults here. Did I offend you in any manner? Actually, I expect the answer....
If you want to be high tier 2H, do you need to be a good shooter? And, I will deal with it if necessary, no worries. It is just the fact that I was always allergic to the forced education...
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We can't publish expected changes, simply because we don't have a finished list yet. But apparently that doesn't stop people from making things up and whining about them.
For those saying that this is just meant to remediate the failure of upkeep: I have no idea what you're talking about. Upkeep was meant to make mid-tier weapons and especially mid-tier armor more attractive, and it succeeded at that. This change tackles a different problem ("jack of all trades, master of all" hybrids) and is by no means replacing upkeep.
PS: if you're trying to influence the dev team's opinions, you might want to try with constructive criticism instead of whine. The latter just doesn't work.
I am concerned, good sir, that any sort of 3 slotting (Keeping a straight face) would have collateral effects of nerfing - namely my pure polearm build glaive + elegant poleaxe. I would mention other pure builds that may be affected, but let us be honest, I don't give a shit if it doesn't affect me.
I would humbly suggest some additions...
Mounted crossbows should take up another slot due to the saddle dildo that must be keeping them in place while they reload.
great swords and pikers need another slot for the cue stick chalk they need to make those 'english' lol stabs.
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I see why this would be a nerf to your current build Erasmas but with a dedicated xbow build you can really make something decent still. Like said above horse xbowman is still an option, otherwise something like this is pretty nice when you look at the build. If you want to be different you could spec 2h and use the Langes Messier which *may* only take up one slot still.
* Strength: 15
* Agility: 24
* Hit points: 54
* Converted: 8
* Ironflesh: 2
* Power Strike: 5
* Athletics: 8
* Weapon Master: 8
* One Handed: 137
* Crossbow: 130
Speed to get to where you want to go, solid long range damage and accuracy, and the wpf proficiency to effectively use a 1h weapon without a shield when its needed.
Looks pretty solid to me to be honest, in order to get the shield you would lose out on 1h prof, speed, and range damage.
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It does look solid, but it also shows something else: in the result of this patch hybrids will be able (or forced to:-) to respec and have more wpf points available for other profs. Interesting and, I guess, contrary to the assumed purpose.
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:shock: sounds like an idea to try out.
Now since we have pretty much dedicated xbow n archer gear can we pwwwwz have passive shields? I would imagine something like this could be done for dedicated xbowmen
Dedicated xbow equip
heavy xbow
heavy xbow
Bolts
Passive shield
Rawr epicness
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:shock: sounds like an idea to try out.
Now since we have pretty much dedicated xbow n archer gear can we pwwwwz have passive shields? I would imagine something like this could be done for dedicated xbowmen
Dedicated xbow equip
heavy xbow
heavy xbow
Bolts
Passive shield
Rawr epicness
You are doing the reverse the patch is trying to do. If you want a passive shield, get better armour.
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This is ... severely limiting for xbowmen. The 2 slot 2h I agree with but this is a bit much.
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Yep. Unless you take regular, light or hunting xbow.... Life sucks. And the game is getting less medieval.
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i have no problems with it :rolleyes:
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Can you manual block, Nogar?
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Well, the only real issue I see is that you can't even play the classic vanilla Warband crossbowman -- board shield, 1h and xbow. You have to have both a small shield and a weak xbow to make it possible to have those three item types and a stack of bolts. So that's kind of a bummer. I guess it's better than nerfing xbows outright, though.
also you can't play classic vanilla nord archer (longbow+2H axe), vaegir archer (warbow+voulge), rhodoc sharpshooter (siege crossbow+spiked staff+shield), swadian sharpshooter (heavy crossbow+voulge), mercenary crossbowman (crossbow+pavise+boar spear), sea raider (longbow+shield+axe), sarranid mamluke (lance+shield+scimitar+morningstar) and many many more.
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Just shot out all the ammo from 1 stack of steel bolts in less than 4 minutes of round.
Please, at least increase amount of ammo per stack of bolts, if we are going to have only 1 stack.
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Question, are bows going to take up 2 slots also?
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Just shot out all the ammo from 1 stack of steel bolts in less than 4 minutes of round.
Please, at least increase amount of ammo per stack of bolts, if we are going to have only 1 stack.
near 4 minutes? that sounds right.. plenty of ammo.
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look
i use xbow with 1h and i have no problems with it...
if you have problems with it its your problem lol
and of course i can ''manual block''
i just suck at it (with my ping and everything)
also xbow is not a proper hybrid weapon... i think
but i agree with increasing the ammo per stack
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yeah 4 minutes. And for average player, what can he do after shoting out all his ammo? stay still and leech or...? if he cant manual block ofc.
Please, increase ammo per stack for 4 bolts both Bolts and Steel Bolts
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It's the ammo I am worried about. Unless you are Davy Crockett, 15 bolts does not equal 15 kills. Frankly with that I'd be lucky to hit with 10, and kill with 3 of those. The sniper is not the one shot one kill machine it is made out to be. A crossbowman cannot full fill his role with so little ammo.
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Sorry, if you spent 4 minutes out of a 5 minute round firing, counting time to get to enemy, I'd say the nerf will hardly affect you.
If it's a 7 minute round, and a bigger map, I find it hard to feel sorry for you having to pick your shots with a bit more care.
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If it's a 7 minute round, and a bigger map, I find it hard to feel sorry for you having to pick your shots with a bit more care.
I imagine your lack of sympathy is because you are usually on the receiving end, and are presently grinning inanely.
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I imagine your lack of sympathy is because you are usually on the receiving end, and are presently grinning inanely.
Grinning like an imbecile actually. :D
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I am concerned, good sir, that any sort of 3 slotting (Keeping a straight face) would have collateral effects of nerfing - namely my pure polearm build glaive + elegant poleaxe. I would mention other pure builds that may be affected, but let us be honest, I don't give a shit if it doesn't affect me.
I think this goes against "arcade builds" and is on purpose. Like lancer with long antenna on his back often called hafted blade. Or pikeman with greataxe.
This will bring more decisions and differences between classes also inside melee and more RPish characters.
yeah 4 minutes. And for average player, what can he do after shoting out all his ammo? stay still and leech or...? if he cant manual block ofc.
Please, increase ammo per stack for 4 bolts both Bolts and Steel Bolts
Well, I don't know about average players, but this argument is kind of flawed. Anything the average player can do the strong players can do too, so I just see no (dis)advantage for them either way. If someone can't manual block he can roll a pure shielder instead of ranged player. Or ranged player and accept that it will be really desperate for him when he gets in melee.
But true this ammo thing is worrying me too... I don't know when people start to forgo weapons for extra ammo than it certainly won't solve any ranged spam. :lol:
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Question, are bows going to take up 2 slots also?
high tiers for sure (strongbow is undecided)
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Honestly, there are more then enough awesome one handers (especially heirloomd) for this to really be an issue.
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Just pick long espada eslavona if you want a 2h lolstabber in a 1h slot
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Or the sarranid cavalry sword if you want a 2h-range weapon to swing around.
Especially it's right-left swing is long ranged.
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Long Espada Eslavona
weight 1.25
requirement 10
spd rtng 98
weapon length 103
swing damage 29, cut
thrust damage 28 pierce
German Greatsword
weight 2.5
requirement 14
spd rtng 92
weapon length 123
swing damage 38, cut
thrust damage 30 pierce
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode
Do you see the difference? Not only in stats, but animations, which favor 2handers.
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And your comparison proves what? That you can do more dmg with a weapon wich you apply force with your both hands? Duh...
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Long Espada Eslavona
weight 1.25
requirement 10
spd rtng 98
weapon length 103
swing damage 29, cut
thrust damage 28 pierce
German Greatsword
weight 2.5
requirement 14
spd rtng 92
weapon length 123
swing damage 38, cut
thrust damage 30 pierce
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode
Do you see the difference? Not only in stats, but animations, which favor 2handers.
... Are you serious or just trolling here? :)
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No. I am not trolling, my post was meant to be an answer to this:
Just pick long espada eslavona if you want a 2h lolstabber in a 1h slot
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But seriously, If we don't get any kind of heirloom respec I'm done for this shit. Really, I have now 3 diffrent 2h weapons heirloomed twice which all would be useless after this equipm. slot change because I reacently started to play archer.
Well I'll keep my fingers crossed that item developers have at least a little bit sense in their heads and not screw everyone who has 2h/poles etc heirloomed but can't use them after patch.
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Well I'll keep my fingers crossed that item developers have at least a little bit sense in their heads and not screw everyone who has 2h/poles etc heirloomed but can't use them after patch.
Same.
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Increase all slot weapons with the heirlooms, just for the real lulz :mrgreen:
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No. I am not trolling, my post was meant to be an answer to this:
Well quite obviously you can't expect the same stats/range as a 2H, especially if you compare it to german lolstabber. I suggested it because it is the closest you can get to a 2H lolstabber - long range, good thrust.
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There will be a few 1 slot 2h weapons and polearms. The spiked mace is an example for that, the spear and shortened spear are for polearms. I hope to expand the 1 slot selection sometime but for that we need models. In my opinion non-hammer 2h handed weapons with a reach of 70-90 are perfect for the 1 slot thingy and polearms with about 100-130 reach.
I just read this.
Man, please make every 2h that you carry like 1h swords next to your hip 1slot. Like Katana, Longsword, Bastard swords, Spiked mace...
Plox.
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As a strong bow user I can only :lol:
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As a strong bow user I can only :lol:
Not really...
What weapon do you use as a secondary weapon and what arrows do you use? I wouldn't say that taking Strong Bow, one quiver of Bodkins and 2handed sword as a good choice, so...
But maybe you are using different weapons and arrows? :P
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What about bastard swords and the like?
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Not really...
What weapon do you use as a secondary weapon and what arrows do you use? I wouldn't say that taking Strong Bow, one quiver of Bodkins and 2handed sword as a good choice, so...
But maybe you are using different weapons and arrows? :P
I gots me heirloomed strong bow. Bodkins and I switch back up weapon depending on map. English bill for open maps and various 2h for more closed ones.
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So you can't
only :lol:
because all 2h (MAYBE except some bastard swords etc) will take 2 slots in eq screen and an English bill will automatically be dropped when you switch to other weapon (i.e. bow) and will take 2 or maybe even 3 slots in eq screen...
+ maybe Strong Bow will take 2 slots, too, same as heavy xbow, sniper xbow, longbow and warbow.
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I have tons of money. Pure archer, no wpf in any other profiency. I can buy all the 1h's I wan't :)
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I am sure you can. What I tried to say, is that you won't be able to use your favourite weapons when (if?) new patch come.
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I don't really have favourites. I switch them randomly for lols and stuff. For my piker thought there is a little problem. I'm used to dropping 3 MW pikes at spawn for the team. If pikes take more room in the future then that'll end :(
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Honestly, 15 bolts is ok with me. As a heavy or sniper, you should really be picking your shots anyway. We aren't archers and aren't meant to be peppering the enemy with projectiles (although you wouldn't be able to tell atm) Also, if you go with the weaker bows, you'll have an additional slot for the extra amount of bolts.
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So basically if i want to use a flamberge and board shield i would have to spawn with my flamberge out and when i switched to board shield i would drop the flam?
I think i would play without the shield then.
The ranged would have the nerf of not being able to wield many melee weapons but the un-sheathable 2hs would be nerfed by no shield to protect them against ranged.
It's definately not a 1 class nerf as far as i can see.
I forsee a rise in the use of Sword of Wars :wink:
Also - if you're using steel bolts you get less ammo than a normal quiver but the trade off is more damage.
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Honestly, 15 bolts is ok with me. As a heavy or sniper, you should really be picking your shots anyway. We aren't archers and aren't meant to be peppering the enemy with projectiles (although you wouldn't be able to tell atm) Also, if you go with the weaker bows, you'll have an additional slot for the extra amount of bolts.
You can't really afford to pick your shots as defence on siege, you need to kill the enemy as quickly as possible, lest be overrun. 20 steel bolts, 25 normal bolts sound about right.
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You can't really afford to pick your shots as defence on siege, you need to kill the enemy as quickly as possible, lest be overrun. 20 steel bolts, 25 28 normal bolts sound about right.
This.
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...Finally! Been waiting for this shait for a good while now, good to see some proper changes! I'm getting sick of everyone having 4 different weapons.
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Too bad I discovered this that lately... :?
My two cents:
The upkeep system indeed was an improvement, and it did even better than I expected, but nonetheless it has many many flaws, and what you're now doing is a botch job (online translator). And once one issue is solved, there will be another one, which will require another individual solution, and so on and so on, until there will be no gameplay concept left any more. Before changing to the upkeep system it wouldn't have hurt to check if there would have been better solutions out there. And there definitely WERE better solution, I presented one (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,442.msg4459.html#msg4459) months ago. And i don't see a single point where upkeep was superior to my suggestion. The problem with the crossbows could be solved with my system by only tweaking a small little stat (the item value), you didn't even have to remove a slot from the players who want to use a particular weapon. If someone wants to additionaly use a dagger or a club I don't see how this would make him OP in any way. So if he wants to, he can do so. With upkeep system he doesn't have that freedom.
This is already everything I have to say about the matter. I don't play cRPG any more, but I would like to see its "comeback" for me, as I had (too :lol: ) many hours of fun with it. And honestly, 2 slot items? Your making it more shitty, not better. To me this sounds like a really clumsy attempt to balance out a system which is already failed. Just think of the cavalry, of throwing, of archery, of the complete unimportance of your personal performance, upkeep causes problems over problems.
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Your making it more shitty, not better. To me this sounds like a really clumsy attempt to balance out a system which is already failed.
No, this has nothing to do with balance, and everything to do with placing dedicated 2h/polearm users back on the top of the food chain forever. Thankfully I have both a 2her and a PA user. :)
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Eeerrrm... I would call that balance. You know, balance can also determine which class is the most powerful, if there is supposed to be one... :?
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I don't play cRPG any more
That is the single most important thing in your post. You have obviously no idea what the current problem of cRPG is, which is dominance of hybrids that have to sacrifice very little to be proficient with the best weapons of two "lines". This solution should not hurt dedicate classes (not only melee, but all of them, as there will probably be polearms and 2h taking only one slot, making it ideal for archers/xbowers), but reduce the "let's take an xbow cause I have two slots left, which I never ever use anyway".
Also, you can't judge anything until it's out and working. It's easy to say it's fail concept when you have no idea how it's gonna be when it comes live, and even when you have very limited information about how it actually gonna look. Your suggestion from months ago has its flaws either. I don't know what excatly, but I remember reading it a while back and thinking about responding and pointing out the things I thought were bad, but I didn't want to necro a thread that rightfully died.
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That is the single most important thing in your post. You have obviously no idea what the current problem of cRPG is, which is dominance of hybrids that have to sacrifice very little to be proficient with the best weapons of two "lines". This solution should not hurt dedicate classes (not only melee, but all of them, as there will probably be polearms and 2h taking only one slot, making it ideal for archers/xbowers), but reduce the "let's take an xbow cause I have two slots left, which I never ever use anyway".
Also, you can't judge anything until it's out and working. It's easy to say it's fail concept when you have no idea how it's gonna be when it comes live, and even when you have very limited information about how it actually gonna look. Your suggestion from months ago has its flaws either. I don't know what excatly, but I remember reading it a while back and thinking about responding and pointing out the things I thought were bad, but I didn't want to necro a thread that rightfully died.
Why do you accuse me of things which are not true?
Of course I know the hybrids are currently the biggest problem, it's one of the reasons I stopped to play.
And this solution is bad because of the simple fact that it reduces the amount of possibilities for the players. With one slot less (that's 25% less!) you don't have the freedom to create your character like you had before. Using four slots and a crossbows doesn't mean you are a hybrid (I guess dedicated builds also often used all four slots), and there is less room for new, creative character builds, which - in my eyes - goes against the idea of cRPG. Having a Siege Crossbow and three other slots occupied doesn't make you OP neccesarily.
And to predict flaws of a concept is nothing you need a doctor for. Making players pay for the price of the items they use will ALWAYS mean that archers for example have got an advantage over heavy infantry or cavalry. And the problem is, that the upkeep system has no different mechanic to balance this out by something else. Also some items were effectively taken out of the game, they are only on the page for "alibi"-purposes, so that you can say how many items cRPG offers.
Instead of balancing classes like heavy infantry or cavalry, the upkeep just removed them. That's poor balancing, I would say. And no, equipping yourself to a full knight sometimes, doesn't make you a knight. Renting a Porsche from time to time after saving some money doesn't make you a Porsche driver.
You know, I don't doubt that making the "heavy" ranged weapons taking two slots will reduce the ranged spam from hybrids. But it will rather go the way of removing it instead of balancing it. It's like amputating the limbs of the game because of some scratches and bruises, a little bit of dexterity could have fixed.
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That is the single most important thing in your post. You have obviously no idea what the current problem of cRPG is, which is dominance of hybrids that have to sacrifice very little to be proficient with the best weapons of two "lines". This solution should not hurt dedicate classes (not only melee, but all of them, as there will probably be polearms and 2h taking only one slot, making it ideal for archers/xbowers), but reduce the "let's take an xbow cause I have two slots left, which I never ever use anyway".
Also, you can't judge anything until it's out and working. It's easy to say it's fail concept when you have no idea how it's gonna be when it comes live, and even when you have very limited information about how it actually gonna look. Your suggestion from months ago has its flaws either. I don't know what excatly, but I remember reading it a while back and thinking about responding and pointing out the things I thought were bad, but I didn't want to necro a thread that rightfully died.
While this is true, how many archers do you know that takes only 1 stack of arrows? With bows taking 2 slots and a need for 2 stacks of arrows to last through a battle you pretty much force archers to run since they cant really have a melee weapon that way. Making bow take 1 slot but the 2 handers/polearms taking 2 however forces archers to use a 1hander, which from what i understood was the point of this?
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They said they would be looking at stack sizes and may adjust them.
On the flip side pure throwers with 16 throwing spears (or more if heirloomed) is also a problem.
The dev team is well aware of ammo needed to fight.
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I think the bow issue is not yet resolved. Afaik, the top tier bows will either be 2 slots and will probably get buffed to be worth it, or will stay 1 slot. That is all a speculation though, but this info appeared on irc. I wouldn't be surprised if even dev team atm doesn't know how it's gonna be in the end.
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While this is true, how many archers do you know that takes only 1 stack of arrows? With bows taking 2 slots and a need for 2 stacks of arrows to last through a battle you pretty much force archers to run since they cant really have a melee weapon that way. Making bow take 1 slot but the 2 handers/polearms taking 2 however forces archers to use a 1hander, which from what i understood was the point of this?
What's wrong with an archer having to use a 1 hander? They are ranged fighters, thanks to the draw/nock/draw animation, and they shouldn't be in melee range at all without a team to back them up and let them move to get some space. Having a 1 handed weapon gives them the ability to defend themselves if they get suprised, (or get caught out on a roof by themselves :wink: ) but if their team failed to defend them, or they are the last ones left alive, well that's just too bad. They aren't 2 handers, they aren't polearm specialists, they are the most dedicated ranged fighter there is. If you can't handle it, don't play archer, there are plenty of people that will. Same goes for specialist xbowmen with sniper/heavies too, as well as throwing lance throwers. If you dedicated yourself to range, it NEEDS a drawback, just like dedicated melee people won't be able to hit YOU at range.
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What's wrong with an archer having to use a 1 hander? They are ranged fighters, thanks to the draw/nock/draw animation, and they shouldn't be in melee range at all without a team to back them up and let them move to get some space. Having a 1 handed weapon gives them the ability to defend themselves if they get suprised, (or get caught out on a roof by themselves :wink: ) but if their team failed to defend them, or they are the last ones left alive, well that's just too bad. They aren't 2 handers, they aren't polearm specialists, they are the most dedicated ranged fighter there is. If you can't handle it, don't play archer, there are plenty of people that will. Same goes for specialist xbowmen with sniper/heavies too, as well as throwing lance throwers. If you dedicated yourself to range, it NEEDS a drawback, just like dedicated melee people won't be able to hit YOU at range.
Which was exactly my point with the post. That archers should be "forced" into using 1 handers, not into using no melee weapons as that encourages running which is infinitely more frustrating.
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Which was exactly my point with the post. That archers should be "forced" into using 1 handers, not into using no melee weapons as that encourages running which is infinitely more frustrating.
No offense or anything, but running is an archer tactic. They know they're faster than most of the heavier infantry & if they're NOT the last one alive then running kind of makes sense, it's always great when you think you're going to lose and then you watch your team's last archer running with 4 painfully slow infantry chasing him whilst your last infantry team mate gets to 1v1 the guy not chasing the archer. xD
Then the archer slyly leads the other 4 infantry around until his ally catches them from behind.
Hideously frustrating and annoying, sure.
But would having a 1h weapon make them stop doing it?
Heck no, you'd have to glue/staple/nail/bolt them to the ground to keep them from running away from the melee.
Think my point is, you can't stop archers from running away when you come at them with your sword raised in full plate moving slower than a snail.
Heck archers with flamberges still run from melee, because they're archers.
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Yes that is true, some archers do that. But leaving them with no melee weapon encourages those who actually do stand and fight to run and im not sure thats a better alternative. But yes it is indeed a valid tactic to run and kite people when you're not the last guy alive, i just dont agree with encouraging it when theres plenty of archers who atm stand and fight.
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And then you have players like Miley with 6 athletics, bless her, who is fast enough to catch us and good enough to survive end round. Lately she has been playing without her plate and it really shows. Always a challenge :D
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Yes that is true, some archers do that. But leaving them with no melee weapon encourages those who actually do stand and fight to run and im not sure thats a better alternative. But yes it is indeed a valid tactic to run and kite people when you're not the last guy alive, i just dont agree with encouraging it when theres plenty of archers who atm stand and fight.
I don't agree with encouraging running from melee either, but that is what most archers do & on my archer most of the time I will flee rather than fight because I know I'm far more a threat at a range than toe to toe with 3 power strike, cloth armor, and no iron flesh.
as you've said ATM there are plenty of archers who stand and fight, I'm sure they still will stand and fight with their 1h weapon just the same as they do with their 2h/pole ATM.
But lately what I see is, random archers with pole arms or 2h who will run from a melee even though they may have a weapon advantage on their opponent which is why I said the only way to stop those runners from running from melee is to glue them to one spot.
most archers run from melee because .. well they're archers, they know that melee chars probably hold the advantage in melee combat so why would they offer up an advantage to their opponent when they can simply deny it by out running the fatties in plate armor.
Obviously there's exceptions, all just my opinion but you can't stop archers from running because even with 2h/pole arm atm they run from melee, forcing every one of them to take a 1h over a quiver of arrows won't stop them from running away at the first sight of an enemy closing in to melee them.
"Buff crossbows, either only siege and heavy or all of them, because soon we, crossbowmen, won't be able to use neither 2h/polearm nor 1h+shield = 1h without shield. What means, that we will be weaker. So buff us to balance it out a bit, please."
@Dravic, plz no, already I'm lucky if I survive 2 xbow bolts don't force me into a full str build with a suit of armor just so I can survive to meet the melee & then die by a back peddling xbow player who was hiding in a tower the whole round. You want to hit people across the map? then you do it without having a decent way to defend yourself in melee, just like I don't have a decent way to defend myself from ranged across the map you shouldn't be able to decently defend yourself in melee. Fair trade off IMO, more damage to range would just further increase the rewards for not risking anything and just camping a tower all match with a crossbow until the end of the round when everyone still alive funnels up to lay the beat down just to get 1 shotted because they're so weak from actually fighting a battle not just reloading an xbow aiming and shooting.
All my (meaningless) opinion, I mean no offense am only being vocal not trying to sound hostile at all.
Just can't see giving more rewards for less risk being a good thing.
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You can still use a 1h/shield and xbow but you can't take the best shields, or the best xbows.
Which is fair imo.
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I was first working on a "quotation-volley", but then I decided to spare you it :mrgreen:
It's easy to see where the game is going to: fixed classes! First I thought it would be only less choices, but what I read here made me recognize the entire scale of the planned changes!
If you limit archers on 1 bow, 1 stack of arrows and 1 1hd weapon, or crossbowmen, where is the difference to native, where you can only buy certain equipment for your archer? You keep it over several rounds, that's the only one!
And making bows "worth" the two slots, as someone mentioned, would mean to make them movable ballistas. I don't know if I can appreciate this. :?
Increasing the stack sizes of ammunition also creates new problems concerning hybrids.
Making polearms and 2hd weapons need 2 slots would make them absolutely inferior to 1hd + shield, due to the missing protection against ranged attacks.
And what prevents a 1hd player with shield of taking two stacks of throwing weapons? Aren't those builds some of the worst, as they are responsible for a great percentage of the shit in the air, without having "ranged" skills except of a few points in PT? (= no ranged character, but nonetheless shit flying through the air)
All the double slot system will achieve is breaking the classes, limiting the freedom of choice, and shifting some problems. You create more problems than you solve!
Why should a player not be allowed to use a crossbow and a 2hd weapon? Is this still cRPG? You lost the view for the entire matter, all you see are small problems of it and their immediate solutions, which look good on the first glance, but are killing the game. You want to fix the issue with hybrids, and your solution is to remove them from the game? Thumbs up!
Perhaps I will make a few tables and diagrams...
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I was first working on a "quotation-volley", but then I decided to spare you it :mrgreen:
It's easy to see where the game is going to: fixed classes! First I thought it would be only less choices, but what I read here made me recognize the entire scale of the planned changes!
If you limit archers on 1 bow, 1 stack of arrows and 1 1hd weapon, or crossbowmen, where is the difference to native, where you can only buy certain equipment for your archer? You keep it over several rounds, that's the only one!
And making bows "worth" the two slots, as someone mentioned, would mean to make them movable ballistas. I don't know if I can appreciate this. :?
Increasing the stack sizes of ammunition also creates new problems concerning hybrids.
Making polearms and 2hd weapons need 2 slots would make them absolutely inferior to 1hd + shield, due to the missing protection against ranged attacks.
And what prevents a 1hd player with shield of taking two stacks of throwing weapons? Aren't those builds some of the worst, as they are responsible for a great percentage of the shit in the air, without having "ranged" skills except of a few points in PT? (= no ranged character, but nonetheless shit flying through the air)
All the double slot system will achieve is breaking the classes, limiting the freedom of choice, and shifting some problems. You create more problems than you solve!
Why should a player not be allowed to use a crossbow and a 2hd weapon? Is this still cRPG? You lost the view for the entire matter, all you see are small problems of it and their immediate solutions, which look good on the first glance, but are killing the game. You want to fix the issue with hybrids, and your solution is to remove them from the game? Thumbs up!
Perhaps I will make a few tables and diagrams...
Make some tables and diagrams. At least your arguments will be shiny then.
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I was first working on a "quotation-volley", but then I decided to spare you it :mrgreen:
It's easy to see where the game is going to: fixed classes! First I thought it would be only less choices, but what I read here made me recognize the entire scale of the planned changes!
If you limit archers on 1 bow, 1 stack of arrows and 1 1hd weapon, or crossbowmen, where is the difference to native, where you can only buy certain equipment for your archer? You keep it over several rounds, that's the only one!
And making bows "worth" the two slots, as someone mentioned, would mean to make them movable ballistas. I don't know if I can appreciate this. :?
Increasing the stack sizes of ammunition also creates new problems concerning hybrids.
Making polearms and 2hd weapons need 2 slots would make them absolutely inferior to 1hd + shield, due to the missing protection against ranged attacks.
And what prevents a 1hd player with shield of taking two stacks of throwing weapons? Aren't those builds some of the worst, as they are responsible for a great percentage of the shit in the air, without having "ranged" skills except of a few points in PT? (= no ranged character, but nonetheless shit flying through the air)
All the double slot system will achieve is breaking the classes, limiting the freedom of choice, and shifting some problems. You create more problems than you solve!
Why should a player not be allowed to use a crossbow and a 2hd weapon? Is this still cRPG? You lost the view for the entire matter, all you see are small problems of it and their immediate solutions, which look good on the first glance, but are killing the game. You want to fix the issue with hybrids, and your solution is to remove them from the game? Thumbs up!
Perhaps I will make a few tables and diagrams...
Oh god, please stop. The amount of BS is unbearable.
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Oh god, please stop. The amount of BS is unbearable.
Then say where you think I am wrong! Because atm I think it's YOU who hasn't got a clue what those changes will bring!
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Then say where you think I am wrong! Because atm I think it's YOU who hasn't got a clue what those changes will bring!
I was first working on a "quotation-volley", but then I decided to spare you it :mrgreen:
It's easy to see where the game is going to: fixed classes! First I thought it would be only less choices, but what I read here made me recognize the entire scale of the planned changes!
If you limit archers on 1 bow, 1 stack of arrows and 1 1hd weapon, or crossbowmen, where is the difference to native, where you can only buy certain equipment for your archer? You keep it over several rounds, that's the only one!
Only hight tier ones will probably be 2 slots (war/long bow, maybe strong bow), and if they are, they would probably get a slight buff to be worth it, and even cmpx himself said he's not quite sure yet if they even make them 2 slots. Same goes for xbows, only the high tier (heavy/sniper) will take 2 slots, the rest will stay unchanged.
And making bows "worth" the two slots, as someone mentioned, would mean to make them movable ballistas. I don't know if I can appreciate this. :?
Maybe you can't, but I'm pretty sure there would be lot of people that would choose heavy hitting bow with reduced ammo so you have to think twice before shooting, but if you hit, make it count..
Increasing the stack sizes of ammunition also creates new problems concerning hybrids.
You have obviously no idea how hybrids plays. The difference between 15 bolts and 20 bolts is almost non existant for hybrid, while huge for dedicated crossbowman. If you can't see it, then I would recommend you creating both, so you can test it, maybe incorporate it into your graph later on.
Making polearms and 2hd weapons need 2 slots would make them absolutely inferior to 1hd + shield, due to the missing protection against ranged attacks.
How does the new system prevent 2h/polearms from taking a shield against range? Only huscarl/board shield will take two slots, the rest one, and 2h/polearms will take 2 slots, the huge ones maybe 3. My math tells me that 2+1=3/3+1=4. I see no problem.
And what prevents a 1hd player with shield of taking two stacks of throwing weapons? Aren't those builds some of the worst, as they are responsible for a great percentage of the shit in the air, without having "ranged" skills except of a few points in PT? (= no ranged character, but nonetheless shit flying through the air)
Not much info was released about throwing, but the options are the same for every melee class in that regard. But with this sentence it's shown again that you don't play anymore, at least on EU. Hardly anyone complains about throwing now, the biggest problem is the xbow hybrids, which will be dealt with with the patch, so I believe throwing will meet the same end.
All the double slot system will achieve is breaking the classes, limiting the freedom of choice, and shifting some problems. You create more problems than you solve!
Why should a player not be allowed to use a crossbow and a 2hd weapon? Is this still cRPG? You lost the view for the entire matter, all you see are small problems of it and their immediate solutions, which look good on the first glance, but are killing the game. You want to fix the issue with hybrids, and your solution is to remove them from the game? Thumbs up!
You will be allowed to have xbow+2h/xbow+polearm/xbow+1h+shield. There will be xbows that take only 1 slot, there will be 2h that will take only 1 slot, as well as there will be polearms that take only 1 slot. Obviously, they won't be the best ones, probably not even average, but that's the tradeoff you will have to accept if you wanna go hybrid. Do you think it's unreasonable to force hybrids to choose their specialization or to be average in both their weapons? It seems to me you didn't really think the patch info that is given through, because as I said, your post is just a BS.
Perhaps I will make a few tables and diagrams...
There you go.
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there are archers that like melee weapons too and want to fight and those that don't. those that want to fight will fight even after the patch (but with 1h weapons - shouldn't be a problem as many other builds will also have to sacrifice their melee posibilities) and those that don't are running away even now. having no melee weapon at all also makes your very vulnerable - especially to (heavy) cavalry. i don't see a problem, if there will be more running archers than only a few imo.
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there are archers that like melee weapons too and want to fight and those that don't. those that want to fight will fight even after the patch (but with 1h weapons - shouldn't be a problem as many other builds will also have to sacrifice their melee posibilities) and those that don't are running away even now. having no melee weapon at all also makes your very vulnerable - especially to (heavy) cavalry. i don't see a problem, if there will be more running archers than only a few imo.
many 2h weps dont have sheathes and that means that they cant have a shield also (as "sheathing" the weapon means dropping it).
it slightly worries me as a flamberge lover but i can see myself going maybe either 21 agi with higher athletics/weapon master or 18 agi and max IF.
ranged will have to use a 1h weapon which is good
there is still the option for hybrids to use good 1h, weaker shield (if huscarl takes 2), weak bow/xbow and 1 stack.
im also slightly worried about cav
players wont be able to have a spare pike to whip out and there will be a need for more dedicated anti cav
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many 2h weps dont have sheathes and that means that they cant have a shield also (as "sheathing" the weapon means dropping it).
it slightly worries me as a flamberge lover but i can see myself going maybe either 21 agi with higher athletics/weapon master or 18 agi and max IF.
ranged will have to use a 1h weapon which is good
there is still the option for hybrids to use good 1h, weaker shield (if huscarl takes 2), weak bow/xbow and 1 stack.
im also slightly worried about cav
players wont be able to have a spare pike to whip out and there will be a need for more dedicated anti cav
The sheath only idea.. must repeat.. terrible.
So if implemented, you with flamberge are boned if you want to bring a morning star, but I can bring a sword of tears and morning star. Still waiting for an intelligent reason for this feature.
Why should I care what melee weapon an ARCHER has? It's the fekkin xblowers I loathe, but if they end up needing to spend wpf and PD to be more effective, then again, why should I care what melee weapon they have?
Power Strike is certainly more important then wpf, and a high PS archer or thrower can put a hurt on you with 1 wpf in melee, but still at a disadvantage to a pure.
Cav would have to make decisions as well; Do lancers take a second polearm to fight on the ground OR go sword and board (AHEM, HYBRID).
Anti cav? Pikes are for beginners. Think about it, it's main function is to scare the cavalary away - to one of your team mates. You need to encourage the cavalry to come closer so you can kill them, otherwise you're making them somebody else's problem. Pikes in melee are obnoxious, so ya screw them.
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Anti cav? Pikes are for beginners.
:lol:
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1 more question.
Lances are non-sheatable?
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Oh, ONESHOTTING PEOPLE? When? Prepatch? Wake up, that dream is not true.
yeah, 1shot peasants and agi stackers when their lvl is <20. Because when such agi stacker hit some athletics, running back saves your life vs sniper xbow.
+1
I have a masterwork sniper and sharp steels, I would expect it to one shot most people up to mail, but dudes in pilgrim disguises have even survived this. "Get headshots then!" Ok, I will try, but the reticule is a bit too large to really precision shot people from medium range.
I wanted to try a build with a pavise-shield style approach, unfortunately this is going to be impossible unless I take no melee weapon. Will any shields take more than 1 slot? And will the siege shield? I'm staying a dedicated crossbower though, no matter what. Unless of course this patch ruins the game, and I use this as an excuse to get back to real life...
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1 more question.
Lances are non-sheatable?
Yes, lances are a non-sheath item.
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+1
I have a masterwork sniper and sharp steels, I would expect it to one shot most people up to mail, but dudes in pilgrim disguises have even survived this. "Get headshots then!" Ok, I will try, but the reticule is a bit too large to really precision shot people from medium range.
I wanted to try a build with a pavise-shield style approach, unfortunately this is going to be impossible unless I take no melee weapon. Will any shields take more than 1 slot? And will the siege shield? I'm staying a dedicated crossbower though, no matter what. Unless of course this patch ruins the game, and I use this as an excuse to get back to real life...
You will most likely be hitting the arms (inc shoulder) or legs when you need to hit the chest or head. Shots at a 90 degree angle to your target's movement direction (where the arm facing you shields the chest) are particularly vulnerable to this. Also, running animations such as holding a 2h place the arms in front of the chest, thus they can block a chest hit.
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You will most likely be hitting the arms (inc shoulder) or legs when you need to hit the chest or head. Shots at a 90 degree angle to your target's movement direction (where the arm facing you shields the chest) are particularly vulnerable to this. Also, running animations such as holding a 2h place the arms in front of the chest, thus they can block a chest hit.
Actually, arms are part of the body in Warband engine. If you hit them you do the same damage as if you would hit the chest.
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Actually, arms are part of the body in Warband engine. If you hit them you do the same damage as if you would hit the chest.
Well christ the sniper's shit.
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Actually, arms are part of the body in Warband engine. If you hit them you do the same damage as if you would hit the chest.
I could have sworn that limb bones did 80% damage...
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http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3128.msg55514.html#msg55514
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Well christ the sniper's shit.
Took 5 gens to find that out, and now they will probably remove those heirlooms too. I like having a goal to work towards in the background behind derping about with gameplay styles, having an exceptional anti-2htincan weapon was one of my dreams since before patches. Sad story. Today a guy with an aketon survived a shot from my mw sniper/sharp steels setup in the body. When I died I was just speccing this dude riding round with my bolt in his back with tears streaming from my eyes.
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riding round with my bolt in his back
speed penalty.
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speed penalty.
He was actually on foot when I shot him, coming towards me, later he mounted the horse.
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Tomas is right. We can discuss about power of sniper crossbow (there will be no point in using heavy, when it will take 2 slots ;) ), but the fact is:
Sniper crossbow hardly can 1shot someone. To 1shot someone we need:
- target has to stand still next to us or run towards us;
- target has to be naked (if standing still) or at really light armor (if running towards us);
- target can't be str build (if target has more than 70 hp, naked guy standing still won't die/if target has more than 60 hp, light armor guy running towards us won't die)
- some of factors above may be not needed, if we have heirloomed sniper crossbow
- it can't rain, otherwise all the shoting is shit (not because bolt flies soooo slow, but because bolt flies SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sloooooooow if compared without rain. all the training without rain doesn't help you if your bolt flies in different way on battlefield)
Well...
"Nerf sniper crossbow", huh? If we can't use proper melee weapon with sniper crossbow from next patch on, buff sniper and heavy. If sniper needs 2 shot, I believe heavy needs sometimes even 3 shots -.-
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Sniper crossbow hardly can 1shot someone.
I get 1 shoted by MW Sniper Crossbow with 40 body armor and 57 HP. Don't belive me, go watch DaveUKR or another guy with MW Sniper Xbow as half their kills are 1shots.
I'm not saying Sniper Xbow should be nerfed, but it doesn't need buffing either.
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57 HP
:rolleyes:
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Tomas is right. We can discuss about power of sniper crossbow (there will be no point in using heavy, when it will take 2 slots ;) ), but the fact is:
Sniper crossbow hardly can 1shot someone. To 1shot someone we need:
- target has to stand still next to us or run towards us;
- target has to be naked (if standing still) or at really light armor (if running towards us);
- target can't be str build (if target has more than 70 hp, naked guy standing still won't die/if target has more than 60 hp, light armor guy running towards us won't die)
- some of factors above may be not needed, if we have heirloomed sniper crossbow
- it can't rain, otherwise all the shoting is shit (not because bolt flies soooo slow, but because bolt flies SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sloooooooow if compared without rain. all the training without rain doesn't help you if your bolt flies in different way on battlefield)
Well...
"Nerf sniper crossbow", huh? If we can't use proper melee weapon with sniper crossbow from next patch on, buff sniper and heavy. If sniper needs 2 shot, I believe heavy needs sometimes even 3 shots -.-
Thank god chadz havent hired you to balance this mod.....
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I get 1 shoted by MW Sniper Crossbow with 40 body armor and 57 HP. Don't belive me, go watch DaveUKR or another guy with MW Sniper Xbow as half their kills are 1shots.
I'm not saying Sniper Xbow should be nerfed, but it doesn't need buffing either.
Does the system work by subtracting armour from the damage value received (after velocity calculations)? If so how much variance is there between shot damage at the same conditions (trajectory, distance, position)? Anyhow the damage reduction factor pierce is quite low isn't it? Or has chadz tweaked that? If I use a MW sniper with Sharp steels, 87p (that's what it says in-game, correct me if it isn't right) + 10p for the bolts = 97p. If you are moving towards them in any way, straight or diagonal, you are contributing to the speed bonus, which would bring that above 97p, so that's why you might die in one shot with that armour and health, if armour soak and block allows it. So how the hell did the dude in the aketon survive? As said before I suppose it must have been Ironflesh. So I guess it has its uses...
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I've seen it all in 1 gen of playing a dedicated crossbowman.
With 160 prof and sniper xbow (just a regular one, as I'm just trying it), I've had archers surviving bodyshots from 2-3 meters away. Guys in medium/heavier armour (the ones below transitional) surviving 3 hits. Naked people surviving a body shot from less than 15 meters away.
On the other hand, I've hit headshots on evading horse archers and killed archers over long distances in 1 shot (they could've been hurt allready).
For me, playing a crossbowman is a bit of a gamble. I kept track yesterday during some rounds in battle and out of every 10 hits (all ranges) I got an average of about 2 kills. The other 8 hits were survived.
People surviving bolts is particularly annoying when they're very close and I can't even switch weapon between the hit and their recovery.
IMO, sniper xbows are fine as it is.
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IMO sniper crossbow needs +4 pierce points buff and heavy xbow +3 pierce.
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Touche :D
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yeah crossbow men are underpowered already, its very hard to make kills with it compared to archers. give them a little more reload speed or demage pls <3
as it is now it often just funktions as secondary range weapon..
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Schtze, next patch will make it so it won't be secondary range weapon anymore (sniper and heavy xbow), but they won't be too good for dedicated, too...
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yeah crossbow men are underpowered already, its very hard to make kills with it compared to archers. give them a little more reload speed or demage pls <3
as it is now it often just funktions as secondary range weapon..
Want to have them better?
Use them as primary weapon/put most wpf in it :O
And well...Sniperxbow already 1 shots many guys.
Do you want a sniperxbow that shoots 10 laser guided bolts that 1 shot tincans with 10 IF?
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wulz. first it doesnt one shot anything.
and to the primary weapon: i had it once so, but u still need melee skill or u are lost, when 2 shielders are chargeing u often u can only fire one bolt and u cant reload then...
when u guys think crossbowing is over powered go and try it ur self.
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Schtze, next patch will make it so it won't be secondary range weapon anymore (sniper and heavy xbow), but they won't be too good for dedicated, too...
thats what i want to hear (:
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wulz. first it doesnt one shot anything.
Try reading my post again.I said it 1 shots many guys.Xbows don't need any skill so it isn't interfering with PS etc.
100 or even 1 melee wpf is enough.You don't have a xbow skill so you can put more PS than archers could..
Donnu where the problem is.
Watch dave using xbow and learn i would say :oops:
(AKA dont try playing xbower like an archer)
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If you wanna run around and one shot people go play Counterstrike plz or cod....
Besides my 2h user have 88 hp and plate and i can max take 2 bolts from a sniper xbow if im wearing my brigandine with i use for the most time dedicated xbow users all rdy one shot me so i dont see your arguments for buffing xbows to be anywhere near reason or sanity.... plz understand that the AWP belongs in Counterstrike not cRPG
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If you wanna run around and one shot people go play Counterstrike plz or cod....
Besides my 2h user have 88 hp and plate and i can max take 2 bolts from a sniper xbow if im wearing my brigandine with i use for the most time dedicated xbow users all rdy one shot me so i dont see your arguments for buffing xbows to be anywhere near reason or sanity.... plz understand that the AWP belongs in Counterstrike not cRPG
No such thing as a dedicated xbow person... u toss 100wpf and ur dedicated xbow ? bs, skill-less weapon, no wpf need, no skill points need, just str
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No such thing as a dedicated xbow person... u toss 100wpf and ur dedicated xbow ? bs, skill-less weapon, no wpf need, no skill points need, just str
Sad but true :rolleyes:
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This is kind of a bad idea, because now you won't see any ranged with melee which means on battle servers you will see more of the standard Fallen Tactics of run away and shoot. This just means that admins are going to get ban/kick happy because they don't have melee weapons.
Prepare for DRZ battles on every single battle server. Once again, Dev's are fucking up ranged for the sake of fucking up ranged.
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No such thing as a dedicated xbow person... u toss 100wpf and ur dedicated xbow ? bs, skill-less weapon, no wpf need, no skill points need, just str
100 wpf is really not enough for a dedicated xbow. You need a nice tight reticule so you can actually aim your slower shots as opposed to throwing them away like you can with faster bows. And yes they use less skill points because they are mechanical, but also because of their role in the game, which echoes that of its role history. The only problem is that in history, xbows superceded bows, so they would naturally be better. If there is no such thing as a dedicated xbow person, why are hybrids xbowers being penalised? Either xbows are a ranged weapon that require lots of skill investment, or they are a sidearm.
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No such thing as a dedicated xbow person... u toss 100wpf and ur dedicated xbow ? bs, skill-less weapon, no wpf need, no skill points need, just str
Says the thrower? Where has the world come to...
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No such thing as a dedicated xbow person... u toss 100wpf and ur dedicated xbow ? bs, skill-less weapon, no wpf need, no skill points need, just str
I usually do about 130-150 in crossbow with only a one hander as a sidearm now. So yes, we do exist. Also,if it were a "skill -less weapon" almost everyone would be using it. Most people use the heavy since its rate of fire is better, it doesn't have much less damage than the sniper,it's reload time is considerably shorter, AND it's reticule is actually smaller. I'll agree that crossbows require too little WPF to use effectively but you wont see very many guys just tossing 60 wpf into crossbow and using the sniper, Unless they are one of those huscarl/steel pick/side katana douche bags (you know who you are). Even then, they don't hold a candle to throwing lances.
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yeah crossbow men are underpowered already, its very hard to make kills with it compared to archers. give them a little more reload speed or demage pls <3
as it is now it often just funktions as secondary range weapon..
I see, so what is the primary ranged weapon?
No one is using an xbow as a secondary ranged weapon, I have yet to see a THROWER with an XBOW, which imo would be using the xbow as a secondary ranged weapon.
The xbow is a primary ranged weapon, if you're bringing an xbow, you most likely are NOT bringing another ranged weapon, please stop spouting off non-sense and then asking for buffs.
xbow seems fine to me from a receiving end & when I use it, reloads pretty fast if you put some WPP in it & wounding your opponents or dehorsing them is just so much easier with a ranged weapon, & pretty risk free, can stay at full health while still putting out damage.
all my opinion, don't get your knickers in a knot if I offended anyone.
BTW Armburst, archers have a way harder time getting kills than xbow users..
"Nerf sniper crossbow", huh? If we can't use proper melee weapon with sniper crossbow from next patch on, buff sniper and heavy. If sniper needs 2 shot, I believe heavy needs sometimes even 3 shots -.-
Sniper only needs 2 shots? Heavy only 3?
WTF is the problem?!
Archers are shooting people 5-6 times to take them to less than half health & you're complaining about 2 shotting people with a ranged weapon from across the map what was the point you were trying to prove again? xD
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I usually do about 130-150 in crossbow with only a one hander as a sidearm now. So yes, we do exist. Also,if it were a "skill -less weapon" almost everyone would be using it. Most people use the heavy since its rate of fire is better, it doesn't have much less damage than the sniper,it's reload time is considerably shorter, AND it's reticule is actually smaller. I'll agree that crossbows require too little WPF to use effectively but you wont see very many guys just tossing 60 wpf into crossbow and using the sniper, Unless they are one of those huscarl/steel pick/side katana douche bags (you know who you are). Even then, they don't hold a candle to throwing lances.
Wait why does the sniper have a smaller reticule? Shouldn't it be the most accurate crossbow?
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Wait why does the sniper have a smaller reticule? Shouldn't it be the most accurate crossbow?
I'm not sure why. My guess would be because the Sniper, while having a larger reticule,technically is still more "accurate", as the bolt shoots a good deal straighter than the other crossbows, meaning the shots don't need to be arked as much. It (the bolt) also flies alot faster, it just has a little more wiggle room so to speak, unlike the native siege bows, which seemingly have laser guided accuracy in addition to flying fast and hitting hard.
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Its because the max accuracy is an ideal with all your wpf comitted to xbow, but if you don't the weaker the bow the less wpf you need to near that ideal accuracy for that particualr xbow. So 100 wpf might get the reticules the tighest they will get for a light xbow, while a heavy might need 140 and a sniper might need 160. Its the same thing with bows, which is retarded since you already have a power draw requirement, so longbows are actually the most inaccurate bows no matter your build, even though the accuracy rate given for the heavier xbows/bows is higher.
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Memento_Mori, try to shot someone across the map. You will see it isn't that easy, because bolts fly in completly different way.
And rain. rain destroys all the fun of "sniping" on those short distances. I, personally, can't hit SHIT with sniper crossbow, if it's raining at given moment. Bolts fly so fuckin slow, that it has nothing to do with shoting without rain...
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Its because the max accuracy is an ideal with all your wpf comitted to xbow, but if you don't the weaker the bow the less wpf you need to near that ideal accuracy for that particualr xbow. So 100 wpf might get the reticules the tighest they will get for a light xbow, while a heavy might need 140 and a sniper might need 160. Its the same thing with bows, which is retarded since you already have a power draw requirement, so longbows are actually the most inaccurate bows no matter your build, even though the accuracy rate given for the heavier xbows/bows is higher.
Whaaaaaat? What sense does that make? I was always under the assumption that power draw dramatically affected reticule size?
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Whaaaaaat? What sense does that make? I was always under the assumption that power draw dramatically affected reticule size?
I believe power draw only affects the time you can hold a shot before the reticule goes wide. Somebody would have to confirm this though.
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I believe power draw only affects the time you can hold a shot before the reticule goes wide. Somebody would have to confirm this though.
Yes, and of course the damage increase and that the arrow travels farther before starting to slow down.
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And pd increases accuracy.
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Pd doesn't increase accuracy no more.
Well i don't have any problem with the reticule of my sword...
If you guys stop to play cs may be you will enjoy MB and have fun, stop to speak of reticule and whining...
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Lets say a given bow has an accuracy rating of 91, that doesn't mean at 1 wpf its 91% accurate, it means that as you get closer to the ideal wpf for that bow you near that accuracy rating (the smallest the reticules will ever get). The weaker the bow/xbow the less wpf is needed to reach that (but also the accuracy rating is lower). So given a fixed level cap and a soft cap on wpf because of the rapidly escalating price for each wpf point, the highest level bows (not xbows as much since for some odd reason you can use a siege xbow with 15 strength, but need 18 strength for longbow/warbow, which means you can go more agility and reach the higher possible wpf from 15/24 or 15/27 if need be) are the most inaccurate. Even given the exact same build of say 18/21 with all wpf points into agility and weaponmaster, the khergit and strong bow shoot more accurately at long distances than the longbow which is supposedly designed for long ranges, because they reach their maximum accuracy at lower wpf (though i don't think most people ever get to ideal accuracy, the lower the requirement the clsoer you geta dn the more accurate it becomes). Yes the shoot speed is slightly lower, which you must compensate for, but the arrow will shoot straighter (but more arc from less shoot speed) and is less likely to go errantly wide with long shots which is very common with longbows.
So essentially the bows/xbows most designed for long ranges with higher shoot speed are also the most inaccurate at those ranges (unless of course you use the glitch of shooting just before the reticules reach their smallest size and releasing (so no shots tracking opponents) and it will shoot dead on straight everytime, which is much easier with siege/heavy xbow or if you have low wpf, the longbow. So the system favors glitching to get accuracy and those who use it legitimately are punished with randomized shots.
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Kesh, you are 100% saying truth. But!
Requirement of the weapon is influencing ideal wpf amount for ideal accuracy. Higher req more wpf needed, that's why in Native with higher tier bows requiring 5pd they were more accurate (these are only my thoughts after looking at module system and then native stats etc.)
Since in cRPG you have 6pd req, and NOT 99accuracy for all bows... well...
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Pd doesn't increase accuracy no more.
It does, but it comes at the cost of WPF, so in effect PD's bonus gets cancelled out.
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Pd doesn't increase accuracy no more.
It always does, but prepatch it came at the cost of WPF, so in effect PD's bonus got cancelled out. Now it gives you accuracy and other bonuses at cost of 3 str and 1 skill point ;)
Wpf stay the same no matter how much PD.
Fixed.
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So essentially the bows/xbows most designed for long ranges with higher shoot speed are also the most inaccurate at those ranges (unless of course you use the glitch of shooting just before the reticules reach their smallest size and releasing (so no shots tracking opponents) and it will shoot dead on straight everytime, which is much easier with siege/heavy xbow or if you have low wpf, the longbow. So the system favors glitching to get accuracy and those who use it legitimately are punished with randomized shots.
Oh thanks. You said it so now I can stop hiding it always.
Also why I don't use ranged weapons much, 100% accuracy glitch is stupid and since I know how to do it I just naturally do it on accident. Works with all ranged weapons so long as you hit the super tiny timing window... Sure it is hard to do, but why does it even happen. So easy to do with a bow/xbow, and there isn't any way to police it. You won't even know they are doing it. At least since it goes 100% accurate they have to have aim to shoot you, if they are bad they still miss.
I've yet to see anyone with 100% perfect timing with a non fluctuating ping and good aiming to ever properly exploit it anyways. Let's see if people start trying to now.
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Lets say a given bow has an accuracy rating of 91, that doesn't mean at 1 wpf its 91% accurate, it means that as you get closer to the ideal wpf for that bow you near that accuracy rating (the smallest the reticules will ever get). The weaker the bow/xbow the less wpf is needed to reach that (but also the accuracy rating is lower). So given a fixed level cap and a soft cap on wpf because of the rapidly escalating price for each wpf point, the highest level bows (not xbows as much since for some odd reason you can use a siege xbow with 15 strength, but need 18 strength for longbow/warbow, which means you can go more agility and reach the higher possible wpf from 15/24 or 15/27 if need be) are the most inaccurate. Even given the exact same build of say 18/21 with all wpf points into agility and weaponmaster, the khergit and strong bow shoot more accurately at long distances than the longbow which is supposedly designed for long ranges, because they reach their maximum accuracy at lower wpf (though i don't think most people ever get to ideal accuracy, the lower the requirement the clsoer you geta dn the more accurate it becomes). Yes the shoot speed is slightly lower, which you must compensate for, but the arrow will shoot straighter (but more arc from less shoot speed) and is less likely to go errantly wide with long shots which is very common with longbows.
So essentially the bows/xbows most designed for long ranges with higher shoot speed are also the most inaccurate at those ranges (unless of course you use the glitch of shooting just before the reticules reach their smallest size and releasing (so no shots tracking opponents) and it will shoot dead on straight everytime, which is much easier with siege/heavy xbow or if you have low wpf, the longbow. So the system favors glitching to get accuracy and those who use it legitimately are punished with randomized shots.
Dancing with the devil has never looked so appealing.
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So essentially the bows/xbows most designed for long ranges with higher shoot speed are also the most inaccurate at those ranges (unless of course you use the glitch of shooting just before the reticules reach their smallest size and releasing (so no shots tracking opponents) and it will shoot dead on straight everytime, which is much easier with siege/heavy xbow or if you have low wpf, the longbow. So the system favors glitching to get accuracy and those who use it legitimately are punished with randomized shots.
Does this work with throwing as well?
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God forbid.
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>_>
Hide yo kids hide yo wife
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Does this work with throwing as well?
I think it works with all ranged, but the timing is easier the slower the draw speed (you want the second last shrinking point of the reticule as it goes down to its smallest size), so sniper xbow is the best and for bows the longbow. Wasn't even an issue for archers except 13 powerdraw 1 wpf builds until the patch slowed down the draw rate. I don't use it myself though i tried it a couple times to see if it worked and it worked with both sniper xbow and longbow (post-patch), with longbow you can often get the same effect by just clicking once and not holding down the mouse key to aim so it just fires off as soon as the bow is drawn in dead center of the reticule. The problem with throwing right now is the draw rate is the same as archery was pre-patch if not faster so your timing would be really tough to pull off. The point was that people using that glitch were not really benefitted before (except 1 wpf xbow users who still are), but now with bows BOTH with a slow draw speed and a bad tendency to veer off at an angle within the reticule, those people having practiced this a lot can shoot far more accurately than legitimate uses of the bow and with higher powerdraws.
All I am requesting is that we get rid of the randomization factor for archery so that is shoots like how the xbows currently shoot.
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Great idea educating people in how to do it -.-
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Oh, and yeah it is really fucking hard for throwing, thank the heavens.
I really hate the glitch when used by xbows with 1 wpf, but let's stop and think about this for a second.
Scenario: You are really far away, running. You get shot and die to a headshot from someone using the accuracy exploit.
Ok. Let's examine this a bit. A person had perfect timing, perfect prediction on your movement, and perfect aim, calculating the exact drop amount to hit your head.
He didn't make a mistake in ANY one of those, if he did, he would have missed. It is literally the most skillful the shot could be.
Oh, and if they are anything close to mid range? If you try to hit a fancy timing window you are not only an asshole, you're a dead one.
If it does hit? Your still an asshole. Don't exploit.
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Ok. Let's examine this a bit. A person had perfect timing, perfect prediction on your movement, and perfect aim, calculating the exact drop amount to hit your head.
He didn't make a mistake in ANY one of those, if he did, he would have missed. It is literally the most skillful the shot could be.
More likely:
Scenario1: (Battle)
Round begins both team start... every ranged player shoots into direction of the other team.
Accidently some people got hit cause it was hard not to hit anything in this moment.
People start camping and shoot 5-10 Bolts with 1WPF at each other. One of those again hit by accident the enemy´s head... probably because you missed the target you where aiming at.
Scenario2: (Siege)
Ladder-> 0wpf crossbow -> shoot down -> profit :P
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Meh, Miley has proven to me many times that she can blow my head off with a 1 wpf crossbow and regularly... urksome when I have 154 wpf or more with an heirloomed bow... and being outshot by a dedicated 2her :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Meh, Miley has proven to me many times that she can blow my head off with a 1 wpf crossbow and regularly... urksome when I have 154 wpf or more with an heirloomed bow... and being outshot by a dedicated 2her :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thats kind of the point, by nerfing regular legitimate archery and xbowing, the glitching use became far more viable. The 2 slot item patch should help a lot against these hybrids, but it would be nice if 1 wpf uses of weapons had a bigger nerf to damage than just doing 85% (not sure if true with other than melee weapons) of full damage like maybe only 50% of base damage. The reason i even mentioned it is that at this point its actually rather prevalent so a significant population knows and uses it and maybe it something that can be programmed out in the next patch. I am kind of tired of fighting against non-dedicated masterwork sniper xbow users that can pinpoint shot 1-2 shot kill me (and yes its actually more accurate than normal, you don't need absolutely perfect timing especially with slow weapons like longbow and sniper xbow) and when I tested it on the longbow and sniper xbow its similar to Horse archery with that almost magnetic curve to the nearest target, which makes it more accurate than a traditional archer. I don't use it because I think it removes a lot of skill which is a fun part of cRPG, but I've seen the number of people using it steadily increasing since the patch (just observe their firing patterns), with entire clans using it with their xbow as a secondary 1 wpf weapon.
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Funny thing. not only I can't use my fav 1h weapons with my shielder build.
Now I have only 12 ammo with my xbow... haha!
Good joke...
And it rains MORE often? Great!
Quitting cRPG. In no time.
Bye.
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Funny thing. not only I can't use my fav 1h weapons with my shielder build.
Now I have only 12 ammo with my xbow... haha!
Good joke...
And it rains MORE often? Great!
Quitting cRPG. In no time.
Bye.
Use a hammer! There are a few 1h weapons that take no slots(like the hammer).
But yeah perhaps the Rhodok Sharpshooter build is official impossible now.
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Great idea educating people in how to do it -.-
Maybe then it will become an issue and will be removed in the near future rather than be some under the radar exploit.
The glass isn't always half empty, man!
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Maybe then it will become an issue and will be removed in the near future rather than be some under the radar exploit.
The glass isn't always half empty, man!
Any bowmen who is worth his or her salt already found this by accident, unless you lump in the "dabblers" who experiment with the class only for a short time, or the lucky unobservant few (bless them).
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Any bowmen who is worth his or her salt already found this by accident, unless you lump in the "dabblers" who experiment with the class only for a short time, or the lucky unobservant few (bless them).
Thanks, i never noticed it and i did play an archer for 5 generations from gen1 and up. Im still having trouble making it work though :(
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Any bowmen who is worth his or her salt already found this by accident, unless you lump in the "dabblers" who experiment with the class only for a short time, or the lucky unobservant few (bless them).
I can name several decent to skilled archers/crossbowmen (including myself) that did not know of this patch.
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I can name several decent to skilled archers/crossbowmen (including myself) that did not know of this patch.
And those would be the lucky few that I mentioned.