cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Leshma on September 03, 2011, 11:06:00 pm

Title: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 03, 2011, 11:06:00 pm
It's a fact.

My suggestions how to fix this:

Idea number one:

- remove couching from heavy/light/regular lance, give that ability only to jousting lances
- nerf the speed of all horses by 4 points
- nerf manouver of all horses by 2 points

Idea number two:

- shorten the duration of couched lance by half or up the needed speed for that so that only people with super fast loomed horses can couch on terrain which isn't completely flat
- nerf the speed of all horses by 4 points
- nerf manouver of all horses by 2 points

Idea number three:

- raising riding skill per 6 agi

Something has to be done, it's up to you guys what.

And please listen what people have to say cause none of you balancers play this mod enough to know what the current situation is like.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Smoothrich on September 03, 2011, 11:09:51 pm
lol
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: BADPLAYERold on September 03, 2011, 11:10:43 pm
lol
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Duster on September 03, 2011, 11:11:07 pm
lol
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Classical on September 03, 2011, 11:12:56 pm
lol
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 03, 2011, 11:19:14 pm
Laugh all you want, situation is pretty severe, non cav people don't play battles on EU cause of it...

Most people are on siege and I know for a fact that people don't like siege more than battles.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: PhantomZero on September 03, 2011, 11:19:58 pm
lol
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: El_Infante on September 03, 2011, 11:22:35 pm
Cav is overpowered, even a retard can notice it. We, the lobbists of nerf-cav-to-the-ground, demand a solution.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: ThePoopy on September 03, 2011, 11:23:05 pm
-increase horse price by 30-50%
-limit riding skill to 6 or 5 with old req
-remove lance turn limit
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kenji on September 03, 2011, 11:24:05 pm
- remove couching from heavy/light/regular lance, give that ability only to jousting lances
Not happening.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Patricia on September 03, 2011, 11:24:38 pm
I don't like cavs but.

lol
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Siiem on September 03, 2011, 11:24:41 pm
Cav is ridiculiusly overpowered it always has been and prbably will be. However there are situations where they are useless... but that does not negate the pros.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: PhantomZero on September 03, 2011, 11:26:37 pm
Laugh all you want, situation is pretty severe, non cav people don't play battles on EU cause of it...

I don't even know if you are trying to be serious because of your avatar.

Your suggestions are a weak troll and a bad idea. Stop making these threads.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: panderson on September 03, 2011, 11:29:20 pm
Get a pike.  Playing as cav on NA Servers isn't a cakewalk because people actually pay attention to cav.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: BADPLAYERold on September 03, 2011, 11:31:17 pm
Cavalry has been nerfed every patch, at some point you have to realise that it's not that cav are overpowered it's that retards don't have a clue how to fight cavalry so they get destroyed. Most of the people who complain that cavalry are overpowered try to jumpslash riders (BAD IDEA) or get killed by cavalry when they are HONOURABLY dueling someone 1v1 and immediately complain when in that situation it was technically a 2v1 and you should never expect to win a 2v1.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kenji on September 03, 2011, 11:33:08 pm
- shorten the duration of couched lance by half or up the needed speed for that so that only people with super fast loomed horses can couch on terrain which isn't completely flat

And please listen what people have to say cause none of you balancers play this mod enough to know what the current situation is like.
I assume you haven't played Cavalry, at all?

The last thing that Couch Lancers need is a nerf, we are the minorities, here.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Smoothrich on September 03, 2011, 11:35:02 pm
I went on EU_1 randomly after not playing cRPG all week because my friend BADPLAYER was trying to explain how god awful everyone was against cav.  I hopped on, and proceeded to go about 33-3 on a random town map, with about 5-8 teamkills mixed in.  I've never seen infantry with worse cav awareness in my life.  Also, all the cav were bad and I out lanced everyone despite my north american ping. 

The problem with balancing for EUs is that the skill level there is generally really, really low.  The most advanced tactic I saw was mass camping a roof with 15-20 archers that tried to plink plink at my cataphract as their teammates died one after another.  You shouldn't talk about balance when you haven't played a variety of classes, and when you are obviously bad at the game.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Teeth on September 03, 2011, 11:35:56 pm
I agree with the notion that cav is overpowered. They always top the boards and get more numerous by the day. Not that fond of OP's balancing ideas. I would like to have the horse hooves make about 150-200% more noise, so they will have less of an easy time backstabbing the unaware and engaged foot soldiers. Which is how most get their kills.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 03, 2011, 11:40:01 pm
Indeed, it is hard to pay attention to cav when the sound of hooves is not even correctly placed...retarded. I hear a horse and i see none around me just to get killed like one minute later by horse i didnt hear at all, wtf.

And gtfo with ur NA elitism, do not say all EU skill is lower, that is pure bullshit. You suck for typing something like this, no wonder no one likes yanks when they have so idiotic ideas and they just keep getting louder and louder, as stoopid people think the more they are loud, the more right they are. Fuck off.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 03, 2011, 11:40:23 pm
The hooves sound thing has been suggested more than a year ago, and I believe there are engine limitations.

Also, pls ignore the LLJK replies in this thread..

I'd say OP suggestions are too harsh, especially removing couched lance damage. The problem is the horses that are way too maneuverable. Mountain goats is a better description of the horses we have.

Cav do top the charts on almost every map, that's a fact.

I'd say nerf horse maneuverability, and buff HP. That way there is horse terrain, and also inf terrain.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 03, 2011, 11:41:19 pm
Well I do jump slash and it works on many noobish cav players and I don't qq because it doesn't work on smart cavarly players (that's perfectly resonable, lance should outreach my slash in every case).

I don't mind one or two cavs trying to toy with me.

I don't mind high damage of lance stab at full speed.

But I do mind couched lance simply because it's unblockable and because it gives power to DEM NOOBS!

I do mind speed and I do mind bump damage and bumping in general.

Also I forgot to suggest, make chances that bumps know people down about 30%.

Those are my suggestions.

Cav gives power to noobs and that's what bothers me the most.

I don't like ublockable shit in this game, neither mauls nor couched lance.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 03, 2011, 11:43:12 pm
Dunno what you are crying about Leshma.. it's not the couched lance that is OP. It's the one-shotting with speed bonus mw lances that hurts.

Nerf cav maneuverability so they have to teamwork like the rest of us. Give horses some HP so they can survive all the ranged they can't avoid.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: cmp on September 03, 2011, 11:47:00 pm
I went on EU_1 randomly after not playing cRPG all week because my friend BADPLAYER was trying to explain how god awful everyone was against cav.  I hopped on, and proceeded to go about 33-3 on a random town map, with about 5-8 teamkills mixed in.  I've never seen infantry with worse cav awareness in my life.  Also, all the cav were bad and I out lanced everyone despite my north american ping. 

The problem with balancing for EUs is that the skill level there is generally really, really low.  The most advanced tactic I saw was mass camping a roof with 15-20 archers that tried to plink plink at my cataphract as their teammates died one after another.  You shouldn't talk about balance when you haven't played a variety of classes, and when you are obviously bad at the game.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Classical on September 03, 2011, 11:48:38 pm
lol
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Rumblood on September 03, 2011, 11:49:10 pm
Cavalry has been nerfed every patch.

Only archers can make that claim legitimately. Now go back to riding your OP POS  :P
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Aleskander on September 03, 2011, 11:49:43 pm
Make hooves louder. Lance cav can't hit for shit( Couched or uncouched) if you move, one handed cav has a short range. All it really takes is skill and cav is rendered useless. Make any collision with a horse that knocks the player down stop the horse completely, unless the horse is armored(Even if the horse has armor it should only be able to go through about 3 men).
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 03, 2011, 11:51:23 pm
IYou shouldn't talk about balance when you haven't played a variety of classes, and when you are obviously bad at the game.

I'm gen 10, every gen I change roles. Been lancer twice, 1h cav twice, archer twice, 2h twice, xbow once and polearmer once.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kenji on September 03, 2011, 11:55:26 pm
I'm gen 10, every gen I change roles. Been lancer twice, 1h cav twice, archer twice, 2h twice, xbow once and polearmer once.
So you have not dedicated a single generation for couch lancers? You do understand that there's a big difference between couch lancers and lancers, right?

Different moves, different tactics, different risks, much more weaknesses.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 04, 2011, 12:04:07 am
Dunno what you are crying about Leshma.. it's not the couched lance that is OP. It's the one-shotting with speed bonus mw lances that hurts.

I don't mind MW lances and lance stab, you know why? Cause I know to point my mouse down and press right button at the same time...

I agree with Smootrich about one thing, EU players have zero cav awareness. About skill, well I used to play for few days on NA servers when that Tulsa and Lady Gaga were best, I wouldn't say NA is more skilled than EU, not at all. They are very skilled players like Goretooth and Dextraa, which played for some time on EU but in general I think they are less skilled than EU crowd.

I do have solid cav awereness, it would be perfect if I could hear dem hoofs..
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 04, 2011, 12:15:10 am
So you have not dedicated a single generation for couch lancers? You do understand that there's a big difference between couch lancers and lancers, right?

Different moves, different tactics, different risks, much more weaknesses.

I didn't say anything about Great Lance, that thing should be buffed. I want Heavy lance to lose that ability.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Mtemtko on September 04, 2011, 12:21:34 am
Only thing that stops me from saying yes to lancer nerf is that the class itself is damn boring... I could barely wait to reach 8.8 mil xp and retire to something else...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Laufknoten on September 04, 2011, 12:22:03 am
I agree with Smootrich about one thing, EU players have zero cav awareness.

I do have solid cav awereness, it would be perfect if I could hear dem hoofs..
I think most people have a good cav awareness. The problem is the cav-archer-coproduction. Nowadays crpg-battle is all about not getting backstabbed or couched by cav and not getting shot by some roofcampers. Basically cavs are just really fast and hardhitting backstabbers, thats why they get so many kills.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: tankmen on September 04, 2011, 12:34:58 am
these threads remind me of why i hate c-RPG player base.... my only comment is to reply as Brolaf would from league of legends.


"im OP? YOUR MOMS OP!"
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 04, 2011, 12:37:17 am
these threads remind me of why i hate c-RPG player base....

They want to nerf your op class?!?!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Razzen on September 04, 2011, 12:43:59 am
Cav can kill people who are not aware of them? What is this madness! We need to nerf them immediately, you may think that a nerf every patch is enough, but its obviously not! Its so overpowered that they can kill people with a lance on a horse with full speed! Horses should also not be moving quickly, because obviously horses are not fast, they should be slow.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 04, 2011, 12:47:43 am
Also I hate pro realism arguments, so if you're going to back up your point of view with those all I'm gonna say is: I use wooden sword and I can block axes, flamberges and other sharp weapons till tomorrow...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: masasa on September 04, 2011, 12:50:44 am
Cav tops the scoreboards on most open/town maps because cav can do what other classed can't:

- Rape enemy spawn, afk dudes and stragglers
- Move fast around the battlefield searching for easy kills(peasants, bad players, unaware players)
- Use the chaos of the battlefield to their advantage(players that are engaged in melee combat usually ignore cav and you can hit them from side or from behind)

Cav loses 1vs1 to every class in game assuming both players are equally skilled.

- Archer rapes cav. There is no way to kill an archer(unless its slow strength build) if he knows how to move(high speed horse is very easy to dodge, slow speed horse is very easy to circle around while shooting it or using secondary weapon).
- Pike rapes cav. Self-explanatory.
- 2h rapes cav. Those lol stabs hang around in air so long you can't miss. Slight side movement and the charging cav will miss.
- 1h+shield wins if he has decent athletics(or light armor) . Again, horse is easy to dodge if you know its there and if you are not a slow tincan.

It is easy to try this, just go to duel servers and challenge non-noob infantry players with your horseman and see what happens.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gristle on September 04, 2011, 12:53:26 am
Please remove horses from the game and make anyone that puts points into Riding spawn naked. That should fix it!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Mithus on September 04, 2011, 12:53:53 am
Idea number three:

- raising riding skill per 6 agi



This should be implement, is ridiculous see people on a plated charge 24/7 because they are with a gen 1 under 25. They pumb people and unbalance battle. Also lower the plated charge armor, the armor should not be aplied to legs, its ok to protect against other cavalary and archer, but against a meele we should be able to hit their legs and easly kill them.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Razzen on September 04, 2011, 12:55:47 am
Now lets ask the fun question, how many posting that cav should be nerfed have actually tried being it in this patch?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: ThePoopy on September 04, 2011, 12:57:57 am
memememe
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Razzen on September 04, 2011, 12:59:05 am
PolePoop is obviously mad!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: _GTX_ on September 04, 2011, 01:02:01 am
(click to show/hide)

Just lol dude, but it doesnt surprise me you dont want cav nerfed, your in the GK clan. You live by the op'ness.

2h rapes cav ? lets see..... cav got better reach, better movement and faster movement speed. 2h got........... nothing ?

1h wins against cav ? dude are you shitting me ? f the cav knows what he is doing its very hard. they got better reach, better movement and faster movement speed again. 1h and shield got....... nothing ?

Archers rapes cav ? That depends on the situation, if its on a roof, ofc you wont hit archer. But if its on a flat gorund, the archer is quite fucked. its not easy to dodge the cav if the cav knows where the archer is goin. same way around, if the archer knows where the cav is goin, its not easy for the cav to hit him.

Have u ever played as infantry ? and cav is not a 1v1 class, so comparing it as a 1v1 class is stupid.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 04, 2011, 01:04:03 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtMdc86e4uM

now.. stop the hate
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: ThePoopy on September 04, 2011, 01:04:23 am
i want 8 riding arab horse and courser nerfed (main reason i stopped being cav)
lance turn limit should be removed, just forces all cav to be backstabbers.
and the lances should be speeded up, feels like using native 2h lolstab atm=> super easy bump slash stab.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: masasa on September 04, 2011, 01:15:39 am
Just lol dude, but it doesnt surprise me you dont want cav nerfed, your in the GK clan. You live by the op'ness.

2h rapes cav ? lets see..... cav got better reach, better movement and faster movement speed. 2h got........... nothing ?

1h wins against cav ? dude are you shitting me ? f the cav knows what he is doing its very hard. they got better reach, better movement and faster movement speed again. 1h and shield got....... nothing ?

Archers rapes cav ? That depends on the situation, if its on a roof, ofc you wont hit archer. But if its on a flat gorund, the archer is quite fucked. its not easy to dodge the cav if the cav knows where the archer is goin. same way around, if the archer knows where the cav is goin, its not easy for the cav to hit him.

Have u ever played as infantry ? and cav is not a 1v1 class, so comparing it as a 1v1 class is stupid.

I have played 2h,shielder,thrower,x-bower,lancer and currently 1h cav. And I'm not shitting you, honestly, go try it in duel servers and you will get owned vs good inf player no matter what class they are.

I agree that cav is not 1vs1 class, it sucks at it. In other words it is not overpowered compared to other classes, so what is the point of nerfing it? Sounds to me people just want to nerf it because Cav gets all the easy kills and scoreboard fame.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fartface on September 04, 2011, 01:19:22 am
yeah thats right instead of improving ur aweraness or adjust to the cav.
les whine to the devs to get it nerfed because thats the way how its supposed to be.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Siiem on September 04, 2011, 01:23:04 am
yeah thats right instead of improving ur aweraness or adjust to the cav.
les whine to the devs to get it nerfed because thats the way how its supposed to be.

Well thats what they did with 2hers and archers did it when they got nerfed...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: _GTX_ on September 04, 2011, 01:34:08 am
Well thats what they did with 2hers and archers did it when they got nerfed...

yup like 4 times nerfed 2hs ?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: _GTX_ on September 04, 2011, 01:35:41 am
I have played 2h,shielder,thrower,x-bower,lancer and currently 1h cav. And I'm not shitting you, honestly, go try it in duel servers and you will get owned vs good inf player no matter what class they are.

I agree that cav is not 1vs1 class, it sucks at it. In other words it is not overpowered compared to other classes, so what is the point of nerfing it? Sounds to me people just want to nerf it because Cav gets all the easy kills and scoreboard fame.

You dont get it do you ? its not a 1v1 class, its a battle class. Which means comparing it 1v1 against 1v1 classes, is not how you find out if its op or not.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tzar on September 04, 2011, 01:42:10 am
Cav is easy mode and allways have been just increase the price on horses so players cant take em out for a spin 24/7
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Siiem on September 04, 2011, 01:43:43 am
Cav is easy mode and allways have been just increase the price on horses so players cant take em out for a spin 24/7

No, something like drastically reducing their turn radius and turn speed combined with slower acceleration and a HP buff would maybe work? Could be tested :( I wish :(
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: masasa on September 04, 2011, 01:56:39 am
You dont get it do you ? its not a 1v1 class, its a battle class. Which means comparing it 1v1 against 1v1 classes, is not how you find out if its op or not.

I admit I don't get what you mean. You tell me what makes Cav overpowered without comparing it to other classes.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 02:46:51 am
Lol Leshma...possibly the loudest anti-cav lobbyist out there.

2h rapes cav ? lets see..... cav got better reach, better movement and faster movement speed. 2h got........... nothing ?

1h wins against cav ? dude are you shitting me ? f the cav knows what he is doing its very hard. they got better reach, better movement and faster movement speed again. 1h and shield got....... nothing ?

Archers rapes cav ? That depends on the situation, if its on a roof, ofc you wont hit archer. But if its on a flat gorund, the archer is quite fucked. its not easy to dodge the cav if the cav knows where the archer is goin. same way around, if the archer knows where the cav is goin, its not easy for the cav to hit him.

Have u ever played as infantry ? and cav is not a 1v1 class, so comparing it as a 1v1 class is stupid.

Ok...I have played every class except thrower and I can say you don't know what you're talking about.

2h: Currently because of the lance angle nerf (most of Leshmas nerfs are for lancing), 2h outrange lancers with a lolstab. Lancers can no longer strike side on, meaning 2h simply have to spin, and because of the extra length on a lolstab and the way the lance is held (even when thrusting), they will outrange even a heavy lance. Go and test it on a server with a friend, it works every time. Hell cav struggle against even a heavy bastard sword because of the lolstab. The speed bonus working against the cav means that the lolstab will likely take out the horse to.

1h shielder. All they have to do is block with the shield. You can jump out the way of a couch lance and then thrust your sword into the horse as it charges away. Practice it on duel...it works.

Archer: Actually...I was fighting Nelo earlier today and I have to say archers can quite easily take out cav. Nelo's longbow with 6 PD could 1 shot my Champion courser because of the speed bonus. The problem is, most archers these days use horn bows which will take 3-4 arrows to kill a horse. But even from my experience as a downed HA, taking cav 1 on 1 is no problem really. You don't need to aim, you simply draw and keep moving and the horse is such a big target you can't miss and trust me, I've had it worse than any archer out there. Ever tried being a downed HA in the middle of the enemy cav? Not fun, but I've managed to screw over many lancers simply by letting them get in each others way, moving constantly whilst shooting, no need to aim at all.

Average cav will lose 1 vs 1 to the majority of average players from other classes. But it is a battle class. And it is designed for backstabbing. The best cav players move constantly and never stop. They pick the players that aren't paying attention and take them out, if they miss, they don't get locked into 1vs1 but move on. That's why the best players are dangerous. However, the vast majority of cav are average players and easy to take out.

Arguing that cav top the servers constantly is utter bull. There are a few very good cav, just as there are of every class. The majority of cav stay in the average K/D area, amongst the average infantry. I know, because I keep track of how the cav on my team is doing seeing as I ride my horse constantly.

The guys who want to nerf cav are just butt hurt and can't take the fact that they actually have to pay a little more attention on the battlefield. And yes, I play battle enough as infantry/archer to know what it's like. It's not hard to keep an eye out for cav at all and play it smart.

No, something like drastically reducing their turn radius and turn speed combined with slower acceleration and a HP buff would maybe work? Could be tested :( I wish :(

I believe it was said a while ago that the item balancers said no to this. And I say no as well...there's so much ranged flying around most maps now that you already get shot off your horse if you don't play very smart. Making horses slower ect would make this near impossible. Besides, it won't change anything otherwise.

I still say there needs to be an attitude shift in EU. People need to pay attention to horses. Archers need to shoot them as priority ect. If I'm playing my dedicated archer or downed HA, I always make sure to shoot the enemy cav, just as I always make it my priority when I'm on my horse.

It's a fact.

My suggestions how to fix this:

Idea number one:

- remove couching from heavy/light/regular lance, give that ability only to jousting lances
- nerf the speed of all horses by 4 points
- nerf manouver of all horses by 2 points

Idea number two:

- shorten the duration of couched lance by half or up the needed speed for that so that only people with super fast loomed horses can couch on terrain which isn't completely flat
- nerf the speed of all horses by 4 points
- nerf manouver of all horses by 2 points

Idea number three:

- raising riding skill per 6 agi

Something has to be done, it's up to you guys what.

And please listen what people have to say cause none of you balancers play this mod enough to know what the current situation is like.

Speed + manoeuvre already got nerfed once. Lance angle reduced. Strength of the lance strike isn't as good. Loads lobbied for cav to be nerfed once...it was nerfed. Now you're doing it again. And honestly there's no real reason to. All lances should couch. And raising the riding level to 6 agi is just retarded.

Anyway, it is a source of great amusement to see a good cavalry player rampage through an enemy team. Some of us in GK can never understand how we can watch Torben, Kerrigan, Leed ect dart in and out getting kill after kill and no one pays them the closest bit of attention. Somehow those guys seem invisible to the enemy. They know how to get the unaware players. But it's shocking just how clueless a lot of infantry are. Maybe because I play in a cav clan I know when I play my alts to keep an eye on cavalry a lot of the time. But it seems most people don't.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 04, 2011, 02:57:59 am
Heeere we go.

Everything imaginable has been said in this discussion so many times.. Here's 2 common answers to the cav whiners.

1. Get some awareness.
There is simply so much shit flying around and players doing stuff, that in an infantry melee, even the best most inhuman 12y olds can't have the kind of awareness required to look behind for some cav 100m away. (Takes about 4 seconds for him to close the distance). Around corners, there are situations where you've got no chance against a couched lance. We all knows how it is, the cav and all infantry.

Battle produces chaos. Cav pray on it. Get some awareness is just a retarded argument, although true as well. The awareness of cRPG players won't increase 1 year after it was launched.

2. Weak in 1vs1.
   a. Cav don't need to fight a 1vs1. So this argument is invalid in battle
   b. Cav in stead waits or moves on until there is a 2vs1 advantage.
        Cav bumps, other cav stabs, couches or slashes.
        Cav bumps, other infantry attacks.

IMO cav should not be harmless little girls, but there should be a greater risk involved, since they can so easily run away from a hairy situation.

If you nerfed maneuverability, you would have to see more active cooperation from them, like the first cav bumps the second couches. No more soloing waiting around for a player to engage something else then storm in. Give them more HP so they can survive more arrows and flying shit, but not avoid it like they do now. Also with less maneuverability, infantry could choose smaller hills and cav would not be so powerful there.

Also, I said this in january:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1386.msg19865.html#msg19865 (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1386.msg19865.html#msg19865)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 03:05:05 am
Heeere we go.

Everything imaginable has been said in this discussion so many times.. Here's 2 common answers to the cav whiners.

1. Get some awareness.
There is simply so much shit flying around and players doing stuff, that in an infantry melee, even the best most inhuman 12y olds can't have the kind of awareness required to look behind for some cav 100m away. (Takes about 4 seconds for him to close the distance). Around corners, there are situations where you've got no chance against a couched lance. We all knows how it is, the cav and all infantry.

Battle produces chaos. Cav pray on it. Get some awareness is just a retarded argument, although viable in some circumstances.

2. Weak in 1vs1.
   a. Cav don't need to fight a 1vs1. So this argument is invalid in battle
   b. Cav in stead waits or moves on until there is a 2vs1 advantage.
        Cav bumps, other cav stabs, couches or slashes.
        Cav bumps, other infantry attacks.

IMO cav should not be harmless little girls, but there should be a greater risk involved, since they can so easily run away from a hairy situation.

If you nerfed maneuverability, you would have to see more active cooperation from them, like the first cav bumps the second couches. No more soloing waiting around for a player to engage something else then storm in. Give them more HP so they can survive more arrows and flying shit, but not avoid it like they do now. Also with less maneuverability, infantry could choose smaller hills and cav would not be so powerful there.

1. Answer: Stay with you're team.

That's the best solution really. Staying in a group means that some of you can focus on melee whilst some can focus on other things. I've found it works wonders when playing as infantry or my archer. The problem is 99.9% of crpg players want to be lone heroes and so become easy targets, especially when they are in a melee separated from their team.

2. I don't see how this differs from any other class. The vast majority of deaths in battle are in 2vs1 situations at least. You frequently get large groups of guys taking on a much smaller group. No different really. There's rarely a situation in the middle of a battle where there's calm all over and 2 people can fight 1 vs 1. It just so happens that cav can move between these instances faster. But honestly, the amount of ranged crap flying around means you should be off your horse if archers are sensible.

Take the best archers like Blackbow ect. They will shoot for cavalry...I hate playing in Pecores because of Blackbow. He always aims for the horses/you whilst you're on a horse. More archers need to do that.

Pfft you get that kind of cooperation anyway, usually by accident mind you. The problem is, cavalry is fast moving. It's difficult to keep track of each other as your moving. Unless you're on TS, it's pretty much impossible. It's not like an infantry class in that sense. Everything happens at a much greater speed.

O and the final balancing argument. My horse costs 20k. I'm paying for the speed with my courser. That's what it's for. I don't want it to have more armour and HP. I'm perfectly happy with it going down to 2-3 arrows because I can move quickly and most archers are retarded. Cavalry pay for the privelage. Guess what...you can too if you like!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 04, 2011, 03:07:42 am
LOL JUST LOL.

Watch me grab  pike and take on 3 cav at once, Cav is so nerfed its hilarious.

FACT: i had a 13:4 K:D:R naked on a sumpter, with 2 riding. Doesn't matter HOW hard you nerf cav you will always do well in it if you're smart. BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DUMB FUCKS.

The only thing you can do about it, is buff horse noise. This will eliminate the retarded stealth fighter jet coursers.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 03:09:35 am
LOL JUST LOL.

Watch me grab  pike and take on 3 cav at once, Cav is so nerfed its hilarious.

FACT: i had a 13:4 K:D:R naked on a sumpter, with 2 riding. Doesn't matter HOW hard you nerf cav you will always do well in it if you're smart. BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DUMB FUCKS.

The only thing you can do about it, is buff horse noise. This will eliminate the retarded stealth fighter jet coursers.

True...I've had some pretty good K/D's on a sumpter and poor HA accuracy. Infantry just doesn't know how to combat cavalry, even a horse that barely runs faster than they do. It's amusing.

The problem with the horse noise isn't how loud they are. They are loud enough...you can hear cavalry on the other side of the map. It's that you don't have directional sounds in warband. And that's an engine issue and something crpg can't change.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 04, 2011, 03:13:38 am
True...I've had some pretty good K/D's on a sumpter and poor HA accuracy. Infantry just doesn't know how to combat cavalry, even a horse that barely runs faster than they do. It's amusing.

The problem with the horse noise isn't how loud they are. They are loud enough...you can hear cavalry on the other side of the map. It's that you don't have directional sounds in warband. And that's an engine issue and something crpg can't change.

i don't know, personally i never hear the cav galloping towards me even though IRL i'd fucking FEEL IT AS THE EARTH SHAKES
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 03:14:52 am
i don't know, personally i never hear the cav galloping towards me even though IRL i'd fucking FEEL IT AS THE EARTH SHAKES

Hmm, with my speakers I can always hear cavalry. No matter where they are on the map, and that's just as much of a problem because you don't know how far/close they are  :lol: But yeah, that's a fault in the Warband engine, nothing crpg can do.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 04, 2011, 03:18:02 am
hmm i'll raise my volume next time, if i still cant hear cav SOMEONES GONNA GET IT (cav).
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Hotpokka on September 04, 2011, 03:21:27 am
Cav is easy mode and allways have been just increase the price on horses so players cant take em out for a spin 24/7
Please raise the prices of bows too. Archers should not be able to use their bows 24/7.
And please but a price on health so STR based 2her's can't play their class effectively either.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tzar on September 04, 2011, 03:35:20 am
Thomek GK clan is playing in windowed mode for 24/7 cav lobbyisme dont let it get to you  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 04, 2011, 04:55:47 am
OH ITS THIS THREAD AGAIN
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: MrShine on September 04, 2011, 05:04:40 am
Cav are clearly overpowered: it's a fact.

Solutions:
-Every minute every horse has a 25% chance to come to a stop and poop for 5 seconds
-All cav now have a boombox attached that screams 'WEEOOOWWEEEOOO LOOK OUT BEHIND YOU!!'

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Hisagi on September 04, 2011, 05:08:28 am
The reason I don't play cav is because how nerfed it is.

Another nerf would have me lose total faith in this game balance.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 04, 2011, 05:39:41 am
The reason I don't play cav is because how nerfed it is.

ROFL!

-All cav now have a boombox attached that screams 'WEEOOOWWEEEOOO LOOK OUT BEHIND YOU!!'

Still wouldn't help.  Reason?  Warbands sound engine is such shit, with no directional sound quality whatsoever that you would hear the boombox from the cav across the map as if it was right on top of you, and wouldn't hear the boombox from the cav that is right fucking behind you.
Problem is the shitty sound engine, not cav themselves.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 04, 2011, 05:44:17 am
Problem is the shitty sound engine, not cav themselves.

We all agree on that, but there's nothing to be done about it.

So something else must be done to deal with their silent superfast kill with more damage than 90% of any inf. strike +  quick getaway advantage.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Memento_Mori on September 04, 2011, 05:50:38 am
I have a great idea that is super serious and will add greatly to discussion!



cut off their legs. :3
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: BlackMilk on September 04, 2011, 09:25:43 am
The problem with balancing for EUs is that the skill level there is generally really, really low.  The most advanced tactic I saw was mass camping a roof with 15-20 archers that tried to plink plink at my cataphract as their teammates died one after another.  You shouldn't talk about balance when you haven't played a variety of classes, and when you are obviously bad at the game.
worst post Ive ever read
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 09:26:26 am
We all agree on that, but there's nothing to be done about it.

So something else must be done to deal with their silent superfast kill with more damage than 90% of any inf. strike +  quick getaway advantage.

More damage than 90% of any inf strike? What kind of armour are you wearing?  :| Lances really aren't that strong unless the rider is going full speed and gets a clean hit on you. 2h swords certainly do as much, as well as a lot of polearms.

Thomek...have you played a solid cav build recently? Playing as a lancer isn't that easy. I know I certainly don't post in threads to do with classes I know bugger all about.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 04, 2011, 12:18:29 pm
2h: Currently because of the lance angle nerf (most of Leshmas nerfs are for lancing), 2h outrange lancers with a lolstab. Lancers can no longer strike side on, meaning 2h simply have to spin, and because of the extra length on a lolstab and the way the lance is held (even when thrusting), they will outrange even a heavy lance. Go and test it on a server with a friend, it works every time. Hell cav struggle against even a heavy bastard sword because of the lolstab. The speed bonus working against the cav means that the lolstab will likely take out the horse to.

No, no and no. All wrong. Only thing the angle nerf did is introduce some skill. It's still easy as hell to kill any 2her if you don't just ride at him straight thinking you're invincible. No, you ride to the side a bit so your horse is protected while you lance him. Works every time. I can't believe I have to tell dedicated cavalry players this. Spectate some good cav players or something, man. And the current 2h thrust almost never kills horses.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 12:21:08 pm
No, no and no. All wrong. Only thing the angle nerf did is introduce some skill. It's still easy as hell to kill any 2her if you don't just ride at him straight thinking you're invincible. No, you ride to the side a bit so your horse is protected while you lance him. Works every time. I can't believe I have to tell dedicated cavalry players this. Spectate some good cav players or something, man.

I do...frequently. But you're wrong. The longest 2h lolstabs outrange a heavy lance stab even at the most extreme side angle. Using that slight side angle changes bugger all. And that's a heavy lance thrust. It's down to the fact the heavy lance is held half way down the shaft and the 2h is held at the end. Of course any lancer worth his salt won't even think about going into a situation where a 2h can stab their horse. But 1vs1 the 2h should win unless they are plain retarded.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 04, 2011, 12:52:14 pm
I do...frequently. But you're wrong. The longest 2h lolstabs outrange a heavy lance stab even at the most extreme side angle. Using that slight side angle changes bugger all. And that's a heavy lance thrust. It's down to the fact the heavy lance is held half way down the shaft and the 2h is held at the end. Of course any lancer worth his salt won't even think about going into a situation where a 2h can stab their horse. But 1vs1 the 2h should win unless they are plain retarded.

No, cav die cause they go rambo mode straight ahead on a chambered 2h stab like retards. All you have to do is angle the shot and the 2h wont get you, doesent matter if he holds it at the end, halfswords it, or holds it out of his ass. He wont get you, and that is plain obvious, actualy i would go as far as to say; that is a fact.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 04, 2011, 01:12:24 pm
I do...frequently. But you're wrong. The longest 2h lolstabs outrange a heavy lance stab even at the most extreme side angle. Using that slight side angle changes bugger all. And that's a heavy lance thrust. It's down to the fact the heavy lance is held half way down the shaft and the 2h is held at the end. Of course any lancer worth his salt won't even think about going into a situation where a 2h can stab their horse. But 1vs1 the 2h should win unless they are plain retarded.

No. Heavy lance has about 20 cm on Danish greatsword stab.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Siiem on September 04, 2011, 01:15:45 pm
More damage than 90% of any inf strike? What kind of armour are you wearing?  :| Lances really aren't that strong unless the rider is going full speed and gets a clean hit on you. 2h swords certainly do as much, as well as a lot of polearms.

This entire quote is only " :lol: " worthy.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Teeth on September 04, 2011, 01:27:33 pm
This entire quote is only " :lol: " worthy.
:lol:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: masasa on September 04, 2011, 01:41:44 pm
No, no and no. All wrong. Only thing the angle nerf did is introduce some skill. It's still easy as hell to kill any 2her if you don't just ride at him straight thinking you're invincible. No, you ride to the side a bit so your horse is protected while you lance him. Works every time. I can't believe I have to tell dedicated cavalry players this. Spectate some good cav players or something, man. And the current 2h thrust almost never kills horses.

Do you realize how easy it is to avoid the lance as an infantry? Because of the angle nerf it is super easy now. Sure, you might be able to NOT DIE as a cav by playing it really safe and not taking any risk while attacking, but there is no way you kill a 2 hander in 1vs1 when doing that. And if you take a risk and go for the kill 2h always has the advantage.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 04, 2011, 01:47:24 pm
Do you realize how easy it is to avoid the lance as an infantry? Because of the angle nerf it is super easy now. Sure, you might be able to NOT DIE as a cav by playing it really safe and not taking any risk while attacking, but there is no way you kill a 2 hander in 1vs1 when doing that. And if you take a risk and go for the kill 2h always has the advantage.

Hate using that term but this is a case of l2p. Reread my previous post, watch some good cav play, learn etc
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Bulzur on September 04, 2011, 02:14:33 pm
Do you realize how easy it is to avoid the lance as an infantry? Because of the angle nerf it is super easy now. Sure, you might be able to NOT DIE as a cav by playing it really safe and not taking any risk while attacking, but there is no way you kill a 2 hander in 1vs1 when doing that. And if you take a risk and go for the kill 2h always has the advantage.

Fun fact : When cav speaks about 2h, the main reason they state for how much it's dangerous for them, is the 2h lolstab. Morningstar, katana, Bar Mace, Miadao, Mallet, Persion battle axe, etc... are thus irrelevant in ALL "cav is overpowered, 2h owns them, discussion".

I've played one generation of polearm/cav after the lance radius nerf, and lance speed buff. For the first time, i played on a horse in cRPG. I got an awesome k/d score. Am i awesome ? Nah, i suck. What is awesome then ?
-Aggressiveness. Cav players choose their opponents, and the place for the fight. Infantry always stay in a defensive state (i must be aware, let's go around a wall with a downblock ready, let's look behind... Oh noess ! They're coming ! ) So it's more thrilling to play, and more easy to win.

-Speed and Maneuver. And Patience.  "That infantry just watched behind him, let's get him, i'm on him in 4sec. It's only a little hill, i can easily couch on it. Sure kill." "That longbow archer will soon fire.... GO ! The time he'll take to reload, he'll only shoot me once... Okay, here it comes, i slow down a lot, and move to the side, so the arrow does minimal damage, then i suddenly reach top speed again and 1hit him. If i know he's good, just stay at a slow speed and circle, stab, thrust him. Sure kill."  "Damn, this guy saw me. But he'll reach an infantry teammate in 10sec. Let's wait for then, and bump or thrust, depending on how they move while duelling each other."

-World Best Jumping Horses. "Oh, an aware 2h or Pikeman is going to thrust at my horse. Let's jump over him, trumple some of his unprotected teammates and kill at least one of them. Easy, fun and exciting. A bit dangerous though, but only against good players."

-Stabbing speed. "Let's stab this guy hiding near a wall. Oh noes, he jumped away, and my horse stopped at the wall. No worry, i'm sure he'll slash agressively at my horse, but my second thrust will catch him between his two eyes. Cause i stab quickly. Then i'll have time to go away. Again. Ah ah ah, i'm so good."

-Undamaging to horse but damaging to infantry bump. "Lolololol, i just trampled over that 2h who downblocked my thrust, and my horse killed him. Tough luck surviving all the range and infantry to die to an horse. Ah ah ah !"   "My horse maneuver is so good, my lance stab is so fast, that i have time to thrust at an ennemy i bumped myself, before he goes up on his legs. Works best withanother cav though, 0% surviving chance for that infantry."   "Oh this infantry is down blocking, let's bump-thrust him. Ah ah ah, he coudln't do anything, i'm too strong."

-Ruler. If i don't do any errors, i'll survive. The only chance the opponent has of taking me down is if i'm getting cocky, or... if i'm too lazy to think. No matter how smart the opponent is, i decide if/when my horse or myself die. Cause i rule.

-My horse died. :(     But i can whistle and go on another one, that i haven't tamed myself, that even belongs to the ennemy team. Because i'm awesome. I knew i did well there, not killing my deceased teammate's horse. Ah ah ah.

-Money. :( Damn, expensive horse. Luckily, i often get x5 thanks to my awesomeness. So well... i'm actually getting money there with my destrier and 7 riding skill.

-Horses hitboxes. I can block my back and my horse's tail if i slightly turn to the side and block. Because i'm awesome.

-Heirlooms. I managed to make the dev team balance horses over the "normal" horse. But my heirloomed horse is so good. Ah ah ah. When i think about 2h who get +1speed,+3 dmg, i laugh so much.

-Balancing main argument. Come on devs, this is "MOUNT and blade" right, so we should definitely be the best, imarite ? And the horse looks so good, you don't want people to think horses are useless, imarite ?
Second best argument : L2p dude, awareness is the key. (High five for the first cav bringing this fantastic word in horse's balancing hirstory.


Come on, horses are fine.  :rolleyes: LEAVE US CAV ALONE !

(click to show/hide)

 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 02:16:52 pm
No, cav die cause they go rambo mode straight ahead on a chambered 2h stab like retards. All you have to do is angle the shot and the 2h wont get you, doesent matter if he holds it at the end, halfswords it, or holds it out of his ass. He wont get you, and that is plain obvious, actualy i would go as far as to say; that is a fact.
Nope I still disagree. You're saying watch the best players, but obviously you haven't seen the best players play. They avoid 1vs1 and players facing them, they dart in and out and only strike the unaware players. They never go near 2h who show even a slight interest in them. Why? Because a 2h sword is just as effective at taking down a horse as a pike. This is from watching some of the best cav players in the game extensively. I always do in spec when I'm dead because I'm interested to see how some do it. And that's the way the best lancers play.

No. Heavy lance has about 20 cm on Danish greatsword stab.

20cm  :lol: Considering the length of a lance that's not much. All it needs is the right timing and the danish greatsword will get the first strike. And I can only say from experience that it's very easy to hit a lancers horse with a 2h. Anyone who can't needs to practice it a bit more.

This entire quote is only " :lol: " worthy.

Why? Because you only highlighted a tiny section of the quote? Lances aren't that strong. It's the speed bonus that is strong. But even so, if you get 1 shotted by a lancer, you either have bugger all armour, or they are full speeding with a lance into your head. In which case I think it's perfectly fair you die. Most lancers get kills on weak players or players who are already damaged.

Hate using that term but this is a case of l2p. Reread my previous post, watch some good cav play, learn etc

Your argument is based on watching some of the best players. You can't balance by the best players, you balance by the average. Some of the best cav players will also own a huge amount of infantry on the ground as well. They are good in any role they play. But the average cav player slips up more than not, whether it be running into a pike, or simply charging down the enemy to early. Most of this is because speeding around a battlefield on a horse requires a huge amount of awareness. More than even infantry players need to look out for cav. The best cav players have that insane awareness, as do the best infantry players.

Finally, just finished the strat battle with Fallen. The enemy had a lot of cav and we ran out of horses. At one point I was in the middle of a field with 3 lancers trying to kill me. I managed to dodge all 3, shoot arrows into them, down 1 of them and then run away to my team mates. Anyone who says archers are screwed against cavalry just doesn't know how to avoid them. I'd suggest such people playing gens as cavalry to learn their movements. Once you can predict which way a lancers going to go, all it takes is a simple sidestep. Even against thrusting lancers. If you know the cav is there, there isn't a lot they can do if you play it right.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: gazda on September 04, 2011, 02:25:43 pm
as for cav, all Id like to see is make acceleration and manuverability two separate factors, instead of the current way(acceleration is blended and dependant on manuverability).

Will this be possible with WSE? devs?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Christo on September 04, 2011, 02:27:28 pm
Sounds good. ^
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 02:30:57 pm
as for cav, all Id like to see is make acceleration and manuverability two separate factors, instead of the current way(acceleration is blended and dependant on manuverability).

Will this be possible with WSE? devs?

That is something that needs doing. It pisses me off no end when an arabian is faster than my champ courser simply because it can accelerate much faster.

I assume it would be possible with WSE.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 04, 2011, 02:37:32 pm

20cm  :lol: Considering the length of a lance that's not much. All it needs is the right timing and the danish greatsword will get the first strike. And I can only say from experience that it's very easy to hit a lancers horse with a 2h. Anyone who can't needs to practice it a bit more.

Why? Because you only highlighted a tiny section of the quote? Lances aren't that strong. It's the speed bonus that is strong. But even so, if you get 1 shotted by a lancer, you either have bugger all armour, or they are full speeding with a lance into your head. In which case I think it's perfectly fair you die. Most lancers get kills on weak players or players who are already damaged.

Your argument is based on watching some of the best players. You can't balance by the best players, you balance by the average. Some of the best cav players will also own a huge amount of infantry on the ground as well. They are good in any role they play. But the average cav player slips up more than not, whether it be running into a pike, or simply charging down the enemy to early. Most of this is because speeding around a battlefield on a horse requires a huge amount of awareness. More than even infantry players need to look out for cav. The best cav players have that insane awareness, as do the best infantry players.

Finally, just finished the strat battle with Fallen. The enemy had a lot of cav and we ran out of horses. At one point I was in the middle of a field with 3 lancers trying to kill me. I managed to dodge all 3, shoot arrows into them, down 1 of them and then run away to my team mates. Anyone who says archers are screwed against cavalry just doesn't know how to avoid them. I'd suggest such people playing gens as cavalry to learn their movements. Once you can predict which way a lancers going to go, all it takes is a simple sidestep. Even against thrusting lancers. If you know the cav is there, there isn't a lot they can do if you play it right.

20 cm yes... are you retarded? Doesn't matter if its one millemeter, you hit first if your weapon is longer. With 20 cm you can even fuck up the timing a bit and still come out on top.
For danish gsword to hit first you need a) the cav player to fuck up and b) the 2hander to be perfectly on time. Now what's wrong with that? Nothing. Cav player fucks up, 2hander doesn't, 2hander hits cav player. As it should be. Although with the stab nerf every horse except the very worst will survive one stab, so you get at least two tries to get it right.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 02:42:01 pm
20 cm yes... are you retarded? Doesn't matter if its one millemeter, you hit first if your weapon is longer. With 20 cm you can even fuck up the timing a bit and still come out on top.
For danish gsword to hit first you need a) the cav player to fuck up and b) the 2hander to be perfectly on time. Now what's wrong with that? Nothing. Cav player fucks up, 2hander doesn't, 2hander hits cav player. As it should be. Although with the stab nerf every horse except the very worst will survive one stab, so you get at least two tries to get it right.

Well I seem to have no trouble beating lancers with either my Danish or my Sword of War on my 2h alt. So either all the lancers I fight are crap, or something wrong in these estimations. Regardless, simply stepping into the lancer and lolstabbing the horse on the inside angle helps. That means the lancer can't use the wide angle. Plenty of 2h will do this because the horses head is nearly level with the front of a heavy lance, meaning you can hit the horse long before the lance hits you. You have to remember that a rider sits a way down the horse. That means the full length of the lance at a forward angle is pretty usless. A 2h will beat a heavy lance in that situation.

Depends on the speed of the lancer. My champ courser for instance will go down to 1 hit from a lolstabbed danish if I'm at full speed.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 04, 2011, 02:42:57 pm
Well I seem to have no trouble beating lancers with either my Danish or my Sword of War on my 2h alt. So either all the lancers I fight are crap, or something wrong in these estimations. Regardless, simply stepping into the lancer and lolstabbing the horse on the inside angle helps. That means the lancer can't use the wide angle. Plenty of 2h will do this because the horses head is nearly level with the front of a heavy lance.

Depends on the speed of the lancer. My champ courser for instance will go down to 1 hit from a lolstabbed danish if I'm at full speed.

Most lancers are crap. I can stab most of them... which only makes it more annoying to face the good ones who will steer to the left and 1hit me with their lance when I try to stab them.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 02:46:40 pm
Most lancers are crap. I can stab most of them... which only makes it more annoying to face the good ones who will steer to the left and 1hit me with their lance when I try to stab them.

Good lancers are annoying  :lol: Even as an HA they somehow find ways to outmanoeuvre you. I have to rely on sheer speed of my champ courser most of the time. I have noticed a lot more lancers are piling on the riding however, so they are nearly as fast as me regardless of my x3 courser  :(
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kafein on September 04, 2011, 02:47:00 pm
As an inf (1h, 2h or polearm), I die like 1 time over 20 to cav. I don't know what's wrong with you guys. Stop running alone in an open plain with your DGS thinking you are invincible maybe ?

Good cav players can outrange 2h, except a flamberge jumpslash. I killed very good 2h players like that, and some cav like Leed seem to never fail doing it. But it's still dangerous to do, the time window being very short and dependant on multiple factors. 2h that know how to use their ath and agi are extremely hard to kill that way, because they dodge the lance on the side then thrust into the horse.

And, with the armor changes, you can almost never oneshot people with a lance poke, even archers. This may seem normal, but as a cavalry, your chances of hitting the same guy twice are slim.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 04, 2011, 03:04:32 pm
anyone here remember the time when people only talked about how cav players are no skilled and they get all of their kills only thanks to the bumps ? if this would go away they would be shit! how wrong were they ?

anyone here remember when people said that with the introduction of friendly bumps cav players will have minus on scoreboards all the time ? how wrong where they ?

anyone here remember when people said that cav players are killing only thanks to the "jet pony" ? how wrong where they ?

anyone here remember when people said that cav kills only thanks to the side thrust! how wrong where they ?

and now, with no obvious thing to point out the argument is simply "because! they are op"

haters gonna hate
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 03:07:06 pm
anyone here remember the time when people only talked about how cav players are no skilled and they get all of their kills only thanks to the bumps ? if this would go away they would be shit! how wrong were they ?

anyone here remember when people said that with the introduction of friendly bumps cav players will have minus on scoreboards all the time ? how wrong where they ?

anyone here remember when people said that cav players are killing only thanks to the "jet pony" ? how wrong where they ?

anyone here remember when people said that cav kills only thanks to the side thrust! how wrong where they ?

and now, with no obvious thing to point out the argument is simply "because! they are op"

haters gonna hate

what an insightful post
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 04, 2011, 03:30:08 pm
I love how Overdriven schools Xant, Muffin and Siiem. They don't know anything obviously and need l2p.

If you didn't post so much on the forums I'd never notice you Overdriven.. Those players are way better than you.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 03:38:29 pm
I love how Overdriven schools Xant, Muffin and Siiem. They don't know anything obviously and need l2p.

If you didn't post so much on the forums I'd never notice you Overdriven.. Those players are way better than you.

I know they are. At least against infantry. But apparently they know nothing about cav, nor fighting cav as infantry. And it amuses me when Muffin and Xant tell me to watch some of the best cav when I do frequently and have observed how they play at great length. Besides...all players still have something to learn, any who don't admit that have their heads up their arses. So I see nothing wrong in writing down some stuff on how to combat cavalry.

I have always admitted I'm an average player. I neither play enough, nor am bothered enough about K/D's, to actually bother trying to be better. I play the game for fun. But that doesn't mean I don't notice the way people play this game or know how to play it from a cav perspective. Especially as I am dedicated cav in a dedicated cav clan. If I came on here claiming I was super dooper awesome...you'd have a point. But I never have. So fail of a cheap shot there Thomek...unfortunately for you my ego isn't so easily damaged  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 04, 2011, 03:45:02 pm
Oberyn
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Dezilagel on September 04, 2011, 03:45:13 pm
But apparently they know nothing about cav, nor fighting cav as infantry.

Dude... Just... Nvm.

I have always admitted I'm an average player. I neither play enough, nor am bothered about K/D's enough, to actually bother trying to be better. I play the game for fun. But that doesn't mean I don't notice the way people play this game or know how to play it from a cav perspective. Especially as I am dedicated cav in a dedicated cav clan. If I came on here claiming I was super dooper awesome...you'd have a point. But I never have. So fail of a cheap shot there Thomek...unfortunately for you my ego isn't so easily damaged 
That was not his point...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 04, 2011, 03:46:33 pm
I love how Overdriven schools Xant, Muffin and Siiem. They don't know anything obviously and need l2p.

If you didn't post so much on the forums I'd never notice you Overdriven.. Those players are way better than you.

You consider Bjord good player right ? just before the patch where the lance angle got reduced to what we have now, he said "enjoy the last days of your domination lancers"

Does it shows that he or players like him might not know that much about playing cav as they think they are ?

Different skillset between cav an inf players imho
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 03:46:54 pm
Dude... Just... Nvm.
That was not his point...

I was gonna add a disclaimer for Muffin on the fighting as cavalry side but got lazy  :P (ah you changed that quote anyway)

Anyway, there a some good cav players. There are some good inf players. The best cav will rampage across the map getting high K/Dr's...but so will the best inf.

I just think if the average infantry player spent a bit more time learning how to combat cavalry...they really would have no trouble. But most infantry pay cavalry very little attention and when they are faced with fighting them, don't know how to predict cavalry movements...which are very limited in options and incredibly easy to judge. There's simply no excuse really.

And if you hate back stabbing cav...well the entire game would have to be rebalanced to stop back stabbing cav...and even then you probably wouldn't.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 04, 2011, 04:02:01 pm
You consider Bjord good player right ? just before the patch where the lance angle got reduced to what we have now, he said "enjoy the last days of your domination lancers"

Does it shows that he or players like him might not know that much about playing cav as they think they are ?

Different skillset between cav an inf players imho

And he hadn't actually seen the new cav lance angle in action yet? So uh.... your point was, again? Are you trying to tell us that bjord can't see the future? THIS CANNOT BE!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 04:04:03 pm
infantry lobbying for cav nerfs, cav defending themselves, this is getting way too boring to read all over again

where were all the 2hers prior to our nerfs?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 04:06:07 pm
infantry lobbying for cav nerfs, cav defending themselves, this is getting way too boring to read all over again

where were all the 2hers prior to our nerfs?

Spending to much time in the nerf cav/HA/ranged threads  :wink:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: masasa on September 04, 2011, 04:07:04 pm
You can always tell which side is losing the argument when the personal insults start.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 04, 2011, 04:10:44 pm
You can always tell which side is losing the argument when the personal insults start.

I wasn't aware there were sides. Where do I sign up for my side's army?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 04:11:20 pm
You can always tell which side is losing the argument when the personal insults start.

who insulted whom? i read all this shit and didnt find anything...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Merten on September 04, 2011, 04:12:29 pm
When will people learn, that the easiest way is always "cooperation" ...  :rolleyes:

C´mon guys, stick together ... have a handful spearmens with you and the cavalry have trouble ... is that so difficult?

All One-Man-Army-Nerds SHOULD be all times bashed by cav!  :twisted:

nerf here, nerf there ... NERF nerf!

EDIT: Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf  Nerf !
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 04:12:50 pm
I wasn't aware there were sides. Where do I sign up for my side's army?

See:
infantry lobbying for cav nerfs, cav defending themselves

For sides.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Blackzilla on September 04, 2011, 04:26:05 pm
This game is called MOUNT and blade for a reason... not dismount and blade
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: BlackMilk on September 04, 2011, 04:27:10 pm
This game is called MOUNT and blade for a reason... not dismount and blade
?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 04, 2011, 04:35:10 pm
This game is called MOUNT and blade for a reason... not dismount and blade

Derp and Blade: Herpband
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: RandomDude on September 04, 2011, 04:37:36 pm
i dunno - im havin fun trying to dehorse cav and i will run to the cav-fight area to specifically do that

the only time i tried to play cav i discovered my pc too crap to play properly
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 04, 2011, 04:40:13 pm
And he hadn't actually seen the new cav lance angle in action yet? So uh.... your point was, again? Are you trying to tell us that bjord can't see the future? THIS CANNOT BE!

my point is that many infantry players think they know what needs to be done to the class they dont play... i assumed he knew about nerf of the lance angle that was coming, and thought the days of the cav are over because the true power of cav was obviously the side thrusting, same thing was with other arguments that caused nerfs

when its all come down to being more mobile than inf on the maps, picking up fights you want, unawarness of large portion of enemy infantry

and you cant really "fix" those
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Teeth on September 04, 2011, 04:40:29 pm
This game is called MOUNT and blade for a reason... not dismount and blade
Which is ridiculous, cause why would you want to sit on a horse and stab, when there's an awesome, hard to master fighting system in place for infantry.

The thing is, cav has maneuverability, they will always continue to get the drop on those that are unaware or those already in a fight, without endangering themselves much. Which causes my respect for the scores of cavalry to be really low. If I see a footman get 20/1 I'm amazed at his skill, when a horseman gets that, its no big deal.

The best way too nerf cav, would be giving them more noise, and implement a decent sound engine. But thats not going to happen.

Second best option would be what Thomek suggested. Nerfing maneuverability significantly and buffing horses hp. So they have to think ahead, although giving a little more room for mistakes.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 04, 2011, 04:44:15 pm
See:
For sides.
Yes, and apparently both "sides" have warmeetings where they discuss strategy? And whose "side" first decides to insult "loses"? Because both "sides" act in cooperation and have decided beforehand what to say?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Merten on September 04, 2011, 04:54:31 pm
Which is ridiculous, cause why would you want to sit on a horse and stab, when there's an awesome, hard to master fighting system in place for infantry.

The thing is, cav has maneuverability, they will always continue to get the drop on those that are unaware or those already in a fight, without endangering themselves much. Which causes my respect for the scores of cavalry to be really low. If I see a footman get 20/1 I'm amazed at his skill, when a horseman gets that, its no big deal.

 :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: gazda on September 04, 2011, 04:59:08 pm
PONY
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Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Diomedes on September 04, 2011, 05:08:15 pm
If cav are far away they're nobody's problem.  If cav are too close they can be slashed.  If cav are lancing they can be piked.  If cav are hovering, waiting for an opening, then they can be shot.  Cav are not overpowered.

From my limited experience on EU battle servers most players over there have no clue how to anti-cav.  Perhaps somebody can make an instructional video showing what the standard builds can hope to accomplish against horsemen?  It may be a useful reference video for these threads.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Paul on September 04, 2011, 05:11:39 pm
Pls great NA, teach puny EU how2anticav.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 05:13:19 pm
Too bad we do not have any servers with pings the same for both sides so we could actually see who is the noob here.


edit: counter bumpslash, i would love to see how you are able to cover yourself, try to block, try to hit something and avoid being bumpslashed....
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Merten on September 04, 2011, 05:14:47 pm
If cav are far away they're nobody's problem.  If cav are too close they can be slashed.  If cav are lancing they can be piked.  If cav are hovering, waiting for an opening, then they can be shot.  Cav are not overpowered.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


FOR COMMON SENSE!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tzar on September 04, 2011, 05:17:33 pm
Too bad we do not have any servers with pings the same for both sides so we could actually see who is the noob here.

You dont need good ping to go rape NA noobs.

Dont belieave me? go try out for yourself its easy mode and if u need a good laugh go on their duel server 9/10 cant block or feint thx to being str stackers.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on September 04, 2011, 05:18:53 pm
If cav are far away they're nobody's problem.  If cav are too close they can be slashed.  If cav are lancing they can be piked.  If cav are hovering, waiting for an opening, then they can be shot.  Cav are not overpowered.
Except mine, because I'm usually in the flanks with a katana unable to pike, slash or shoot due to various reasons.

But I can't complain too much.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: kukufarikki on September 04, 2011, 05:19:35 pm
as a crossbowman, cavalry is my greatest enemy, and i think they are fine the way they are
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 05:19:56 pm
Except mine, because I'm usually in the flanks with a katana unable to pike, slash or shoot due to various reasons.

But I can't complain too much.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on September 04, 2011, 05:21:42 pm
Give us back sheathable pike and this whole issue would go away again, though. Just sayin'  :wink:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: B3RS3RK on September 04, 2011, 05:22:24 pm
We should go back to 1 riding per 6 agi.Cav was very balanced back then when you needed an agi build to ride heavy horses.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 04, 2011, 05:24:41 pm
You dont need good ping to go rape NA noobs.

Dont belieave me? go try out for yourself its easy mode and if u need a good laugh go on their duel server 9/10 cant block or feint thx to being str stackers.

Their battle servers are equally hard. With 230 ping I and Goretooth kept swapping places as the 1st on scoreboard.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 05:24:57 pm
We should go back to 1 riding per 6 agi.Cav was very balanced back then when you needed an agi build to ride heavy horses.

i approve of this
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: gazda on September 04, 2011, 05:28:57 pm
and how should people ride mamlks and plated chragrers? with 36 agi ?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 05:31:20 pm
and how should people ride mamlks and plated chragrers? with 36 agi ?

reduce riding skill required to 5?

there is no horse for 1 riding, make sumpter 1, all light horses 2-3 and heavy 4-5 ?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: The_Angle on September 04, 2011, 05:32:32 pm
lol at this lobby - Buff attention, Buff pointy sticks.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: OttomanSniper on September 04, 2011, 05:36:10 pm
I think "idea number one" is good.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 04, 2011, 05:36:28 pm
Cavalry play is dependent on how unaware / distracted their targets are at the point of attack. Many are still moaning because good cav is getting high kd's claiming that it is because cav is easy mode and overpowered... No its just 90% of footmen on a public battle server have low awareness or are currently engaged in a melee.

Cav has been nerfed so many times  now and nothing has changed, if you still find them killing you in the open when you are unengaged, its cause you are blind / deaf / slow.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 05:37:45 pm
Cavalry play is dependent on how unaware / distracted their targets are at the point of attack. Many are still moaning because good cav is getting high kd's claiming that it is because cav is easy mode and overpowered... No its just 90% of footmen on a public battle server have low awareness or are currently engaged in a melee.

Cav has been nerfed so many times  now and nothing has changed, if you still find them killing you in the open when you are unengaged, its cause you are blind / deaf / slow.

how to counter bumpslash? how to counter 3-4 cav trainraping you?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 05:38:03 pm
Which is ridiculous, cause why would you want to sit on a horse and stab, when there's an awesome, hard to master fighting system in place for infantry.

The thing is, cav has maneuverability, they will always continue to get the drop on those that are unaware or those already in a fight, without endangering themselves much. Which causes my respect for the scores of cavalry to be really low. If I see a footman get 20/1 I'm amazed at his skill, when a horseman gets that, its no big deal.

The best way too nerf cav, would be giving them more noise, and implement a decent sound engine. But thats not going to happen.

Second best option would be what Thomek suggested. Nerfing maneuverability significantly and buffing horses hp. So they have to think ahead, although giving a little more room for mistakes.

The problem is if you nerf manoeuvrability and buff HP you wouldn't change anything. Cav would still backstab unaware players till their heart's content, you would simply give them more health to do it with. The manoeuvre isn't that big a factor against the unaware. It's more useful in avoiding pikes ect. We'd have more nerf cav threads within a couple of weeks of a patch. Instead this time, no one would have any 'solutions' .

Pls great NA, teach puny EU how2anticav.

In all fairness, EU are awful at anti-cav. I don't know how NA are...but I'm willing to let them teach EU how to do it.

how to counter bumpslash? how to counter 3-4 cav trainraping you?

It's actually quite easy. Lancers have a strike pattern. If their are 3-4 bumping, the likelihood is they will get in each others way. All you have to do is know exactly when to swerve to the side of a lance and horse. Str chars are pretty screwed from this pov. But for agi chars it's easy if you know how lancers work. It's harder for 1h cav...but still doable. Though chances are you can get a hit on a 1h horse more easily.

We should go back to 1 riding per 6 agi.Cav was very balanced back then when you needed an agi build to ride heavy horses.

You'd have to buff lances again. The greater portion of lancers damage is due to the speed bonus. If you took away that, then glancing/small amounts of damage even on head shots would occur.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: The_Angle on September 04, 2011, 05:42:51 pm
Form game around player base skill - break game.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 04, 2011, 05:43:47 pm
how to counter bumpslash? how to counter 3-4 cav trainraping you?

Dont get caught in a position where 3-4 cav have you to themselves :P you wouldnt allow 3-4 infantry surround you so why cav :S

edit : as to the bumpslash A) stop the cav with a polearm B) sidestep works with agility builds C) dont get caught on your own and stick with teammates

Thank me later :)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 04, 2011, 05:44:27 pm
nerf player skills, that shit is so op
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: The_Angle on September 04, 2011, 05:47:03 pm
Also you can carry a long spear or a pike if you want, they're still extremely useful even without Weapon Proficiency, you just have to have good timing.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 06:11:23 pm
Dont get caught in a position where 3-4 cav have you to themselves :P you wouldnt allow 3-4 infantry surround you so why cav :S

edit : as to the bumpslash A) stop the cav with a polearm B) sidestep works with agility builds C) dont get caught on your own and stick with teammates

Thank me later :)

A) not everyone is pikemon or carries a pole just to be able to stop cav, for instance: throwers, shielders, archers (even tho they usually have enuff agi to dodge)
b) not agi build, so move on in there, forcing spec in order to counter something is bullshit (i know some of you will bring the paper beats rock and shit, all true, but cav is too general to use this argument, as you have loads of types of cav -throwing, lancers, shielders, archers)
c) always easily doable especially on lower lvls with quite low athletics...

any more pro tips?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 04, 2011, 06:11:35 pm
You shouldnt be able to counter 3-4 cav rape because its 3-4 vs 1. You are getting ganked and will probably be dead soon, deal with it.

What is even more hilarious is Overdrivens response to this. Just shows faults at his reasoning as he will throw some rediculous reply as a "solution" to your post: Yea it aint hard at all, there is a pattern in their attacks duh. Cool story bro - when 3-4 cav rape you there is a pattern of your face on the ground as you will be staying there for the most of the time while they bump/lance you to death unless they are completely retarded which is just a case of ppl being retarded. As i said this is expected, as on foot when you face 3-4 enemies at once you are probably screwed unless you muster your skill and pull it off.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 06:13:08 pm
You shouldnt be able to counter 3-4 cav rape because its 3-4 vs 1. You are getting ganked and will probably be dead soon, deal with it.

What is even more hilarious is Overidens response to this. Just shows faults at his reasoning as he will throw some rediculous reply as a "solution" to the problem: Yea it aint hard at all, there is a pattern in their attacks duh. Cool story bro - when 3-4 cav rape you there is a pattern of your face on the ground as you will be staying there for the most of the time while they bump/lance you to death. As i said this is expected, as on foot when you face 3-4 enemies at once you are probably screwed unless you muster your skill and pull it off.


against 3-4 infantrymen i atleast have a chance, and it happened several times i came out victorious from this particular struggle, but when there are more cav, you just cannot do anything other than depend on the fact your teammates are not retarded (also, stick with team usually hurts like shit due to all the TH)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 06:14:19 pm
You shouldnt be able to counter 3-4 cav rape because its 3-4 vs 1. You are getting ganked and will probably be dead soon, deal with it.

What is even more hilarious is Overdrivens response to this. Just shows faults at his reasoning as he will throw some rediculous reply as a "solution" to the problem: Yea it aint hard at all, there is a pattern in their attacks duh. Cool story bro - when 3-4 cav rape you there is a pattern of your face on the ground as you will be staying there for the most of the time while they bump/lance you to death unless they are completely retarded. As i said this is expected, as on foot when you face 3-4 enemies at once you are probably screwed unless you muster your skill and pull it off.

Tis true though. 1h cav will bump you to death because they can afford to turn in a tighter circle. But I've seen plenty of people survive against 3-4 lancers just by skipping sideways+downblock+ making them get in each others way. It's not that complicated. Cavalry in groups are pretty notorious for getting in each others way. All of them kill hungry...all going for the kill at the same time means a bad end for them.

There are plenty of good infantry players who can survive against 3-4 infantry, they might not kill them all...but they can survive long enough till help arrives. So no...it's not a ridiculous argument. It's more a matter of knowing how to play.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 04, 2011, 06:14:22 pm

against 3-4 infantrymen i atleast have a chance, and it happened several times i came out victorious from this particular struggle, but when there are more cav, you just cannot do anything other than depend on the fact your teammates are not retarded (also, stick with team usually hurts like shit due to all the TH)

Yep. Thats that and it aint gonna change unless you have mega luck or as i said if the cavalry is completely incompetent
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 04, 2011, 06:30:42 pm
i can fuck 3-4 cav in the ass with my pike.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 04, 2011, 06:34:09 pm
Tis true though. 1h cav will bump you to death because they can afford to turn in a tighter circle. But I've seen plenty of people survive against 3-4 lancers just by skipping sideways+downblock+ making them get in each others way. It's not that complicated. Cavalry in groups are pretty notorious for getting in each others way. All of them kill hungry...all going for the kill at the same time means a bad end for them.

There are plenty of good infantry players who can survive against 3-4 infantry, they might not kill them all...but they can survive long enough till help arrives. So no...it's not a ridiculous argument. It's more a matter of knowing how to play.

It is a ridiculous argument because you are saying its not that complicated. Once they bump you, and if you face 3-4 cav they WILL bump you, you are as good as dead. Kinda hard to downblock/sidestep when your face is eating dirt. You can downblock/sidestep all you want but its just a matter of time till your face hits the ground. Bjord is toast, Xant/Siem is toast, Chase is toast, Cooties is toast i would go as far as to say that Crafty would be pretty badly fried toast.

Not counting the cav that is completely incompetent. Meaning in your case: They bump into eachother like retards, kill themselves etc. Thats just people being retarded

And this is perfectly fine, working as intended. If you are stupid enough to go on a open field vs 3-4 cav you deserve to die.

Which leads us to the core problem here: battle awearness.

People getting in these situations and then QQ-ing: omg cav is op. Its like facing a roof with 5 crosbowmen and instead of hiding you dance in front of them spamming: [.S]hoot!

Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 06:38:21 pm
It is a ridiculous argument because you are saying its not that complicated. Once they bump you, and if you face 3-4 cav they WILL bump you, you are as good as dead. Kinda hard to downblock/sidestep when your face is eating dirt. You can downblock/sidestep all you want but its just a matter of time till your face hits the ground. Bjord is toast, Xant/Siem is toast, Chase is toast, Cooties is toast i would go as far as to say that Crafty would be pretty badly fried toast.

Not counting the cav that is completely incompetent. Meaning in your case: They bump into eachother like retards, kill themselves etc. Thats just people being retarded

And this is perfectly fine, working as intended. If you are stupid enough to go on a open field vs 3-4 cav you deserve to die.

Which leads us to the core problem here: battle awearness.

People getting in these situations and then QQ-ing: omg cav is op. Its like facing a roof with 5 crosbowmen and instead of hiding you dance in front of them yelling: hoot!

That's where relying on them getting in their own way tends to work. Even if you get bumped...chances are if you're facing 3-4 lancers they are all suddenly diving in for the kill at once, meaning they will miss the lance kill and probably lance their own team, whilst you get lost in the middle of their horses. Of course all this also relies on some team mates being close to hand...which unless you're an idiot and ran off on your own, they should be.

It is people being retarded...but a large amount of crpg cav is. And you can almost guarantee that if there are 3-4 separate lancers trying to kill you, they will ram each other. Cav tend to be very kill hungry and when an opportunity like that presents itself, the vast majority fuck up.

But yes, you are right. There is no way you should get into such a situation anyway unless you are playing lone hero. I only know how to do this because I have often been downed off my horse in the middle of a cav fight, they go for the kill and then you watch them ram each other whilst your lancers/1h cav finish them off and you steal a horse.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 06:43:01 pm
Yeah, late spawns for instance? You download map just to be instaraped by all enemy cav. Anyone else have this issueS? :D yes, just one very specific case, but it tends to happen quite a lot since they are changing maps for strat  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 04, 2011, 06:50:57 pm
A) not everyone is pikemon or carries a pole just to be able to stop cav, for instance: throwers, shielders, archers (even tho they usually have enuff agi to dodge)
b) not agi build, so move on in there, forcing spec in order to counter something is bullshit (i know some of you will bring the paper beats rock and shit, all true, but cav is too general to use this argument, as you have loads of types of cav -throwing, lancers, shielders, archers)
c) always easily doable especially on lower lvls with quite low athletics...

any more pro tips?


I give you 3 counters and you cant do any of them? even stick with teammates which tbh unless you are so 'special' and get lost is not a hard thing to do (low athletics is not an excuse... we have all played peasant :P). I could give you more pro tips but I think its best that we get the most basic tactics into your head first then we can move onto the 'advanced' tactics :P

edit : on the subject of multiple cav bumping and winning, what kind of 'intelligent' player gets themselves into such a situation when they should know these 3-4 cav are about. This relates to the ninja theory, ninjas love going off in small packs and trying to flank footmen, but then often get cut down by multiple cav who see them unsupported in open field (not to mention ninjas mostly carry katanas which hardly deter heavy cav), the small group of players is cut down due to a bad tactical decision. You put yourself in such a position voluntarily you deserve to get cut down, if you just lost teammates or spawned late then I'm sorry for your loss, better luck next time.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Patoson on September 04, 2011, 06:55:30 pm
The problem is not cavalry itself, but infantry spreading out, thus getting killed one by one easily. People need to think a bit and use tactics. I think it must not be that hard to form a circle or square with pikers protecting the team...

With all due respect, there are too many newbies in battle lately.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on September 04, 2011, 06:59:56 pm
fewer people play battles over siege because of some of the following reasons:

More in-game playtime(dont have to wait for round end to spawn)

The objective is not to kill everyone on the other team(dont have to chase around those 7-10 athletics people or have to climb ridiculous ladders and jump rooftops to go after one archer)

The "action" is generally located about 2-3 areas(more mass fighting instead of duels)

Equipment updates are more frequent(dont have to log out and back in to get your newly purchased stuff)


To me, this sounds like much more fun. It really has nothing to do with whether cav is involved or not, and they actually often are involved. Especially in the sieges where the flag is located in the courtyard.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Mtemtko on September 04, 2011, 07:37:25 pm
Cav op? Nonsense.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 07:55:10 pm
Kerrigan is one of the best cav in the game  :P
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 04, 2011, 07:55:33 pm
.. Mte you need to give me some monies
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: ThePoopy on September 04, 2011, 07:57:44 pm
Kerrigan is one of the best cav in the game  :P
no hes not, he just got champ arab horse and high riding
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Merten on September 04, 2011, 08:00:55 pm
The problem is not cavalry itself, but infantry spreading out, thus getting killed one by one easily. People need to think a bit and use tactics. I think it must not be that hard to form a circle or square with pikers protecting the team...

With all due respect, there are too many newbies in battle lately.

Scream it loud out ... maybe someone will (SHOULD) hear it!

Kerrigan also know when he should attack or withdraw ... that's all the magic ... tactical sense ...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 04, 2011, 08:01:13 pm
Cav op? Nonsense.

(click to show/hide)

Just cav being cav, nothing new
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Mtemtko on September 04, 2011, 08:03:22 pm
.. Mte you need to give me some monies

I'm damn poor atm  :cry:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 08:05:55 pm
no hes not, he just got champ arab horse and high riding

 :lol:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 04, 2011, 08:25:18 pm
Good thread.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 04, 2011, 08:34:42 pm
no hes not, he just got champ arab horse and high riding

You were once the same I believe, though we GK's always got the feeling you didnt like us :/ something to do with us not letting you run amok on your arabian :P
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 04, 2011, 08:39:40 pm
Good thread.
Would read again.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: ThePoopy on September 04, 2011, 08:50:34 pm
You were once the same I believe, though we GK's always got the feeling you didnt like us :/ something to do with us not letting you run amok on your arabian :P
ive never used arab horse.....
and i dont spamm agi on cav builds
and i hate GK couse you all allways aim horse in cav duels
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Classical on September 04, 2011, 08:54:27 pm
Quote
I wouldn't say NA is more skilled than EU, not at all. They are very skilled players like Goretooth and Dextraa, which played for some time on EU but in general I think they are less skilled than EU crowd.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 04, 2011, 08:55:11 pm
Both communities are equally shit, just in different ways.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 08:57:57 pm
ive never used arab horse.....
and i dont spamm agi on cav builds
and i hate GK couse you all allways aim horse in cav duels

Sarrinid then. Before it was an Arabian  :P Swear you used to use one.

We like to be efficient...aiming for the rider most of the time is not an efficient way to make cav useless/dead.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 04, 2011, 09:14:56 pm
its cause you are blind / deaf / slow.

Shall we go over yet ONE MORE TIME exactly how terrible the warband sound engine is and the lack of directional/surround sound?  HMMM?   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 04, 2011, 09:38:55 pm
Shall we go over yet ONE MORE TIME exactly how terrible the warband sound engine is and the lack of directional/surround sound?  HMMM?   :rolleyes:

can do if you want but its hard coded and it really isnt silent as everyone seems to claim :P you can still hear it coming and thats when you should start looking around
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: San on September 04, 2011, 09:57:46 pm
I only read the first 70 posts or so, will read the rest later.

The thing is, cav has inherently VERY good qualities. I think cav would be very hard to balance. I think other classes need to be able to do better against cav without a pike somehow, like making it harder to bump people or something like that. I think slowing down while bumping is a huge nerf and should be treated carefully.

Said before, but in the beginning, cav can choose their battles. They can lance a guy and quickly turn away, out of reach.

When there are more than 1 cav, you can't rely on the sound, at all. Cav sounds louder on your sides, and are pretty silent behind you, from my experience. You could be hearing a friendly cav on the other side of the field, then get  lanced from behind. This also creates confusion when there are a bunch of friendly and enemy cav around.

I also see a lot of pikes not doing their job right. I learned that it's easier for pikes to simply protect and stay close to the teammates than just look for/kill cav. Prevent cav from getting close. It's definitely hard to do, since the people you're protected many times make unwise decisions. That's why pikes/shielders should be more in front to protect everyone from the cav and ranged.

Also, even if you have a pike, it's hard to keep track of everything, and even you could get backstabbed by a cav even if you were doing 360s the entire round keeping a watch for them.
A lot of pikers do play correctly, but not enough, so cav players can still do very well.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: The_Angle on September 04, 2011, 10:11:41 pm
The problem is not cavalry itself, but infantry spreading out, thus getting killed one by one easily. People need to think a bit and use tactics. I think it must not be that hard to form a circle or square with pikers protecting the team...

With all due respect, there are too many newbies in battle lately.

/repeats in roaring tone
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 04, 2011, 10:16:09 pm
can do if you want but its hard coded and it really isnt silent as everyone seems to claim :P you can still hear it coming and thats when you should start looking around

Noone said it's "silent".  Seriously dude, are you trolling at this point or what.  There is NO DIRECTIONAL/SURROUND SOUND so if there is 2 or more cav on a map you will ALWAYS be hearing horses, whether they are 10000m away or right behind you.  The sound engine is shitty.  Period.  If your answer is to start looking around the moment you "hear cav" then you would do nothing but spin 360 circles the entire round because there is no directional component to the sound in the game that's worth a damn at all.

Seriously man, it's 2011.  Play any even half-assed FPS game and the directional sound engine is better.  In most you can pinpoint those footsteps behind you and on the 2nd floor above you from across the street (if you hear them over all the explosions and shit).  In this game, fuck, you're basically better off playing with no sound and listening to music the majority of the time.

And that's not even getting into the other sound engine problems:  The dude in plate and chain armor is just as fucking silent as the ninjass in the black robes and leather boots when he's running around your flank?  Surrrrre....
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 04, 2011, 10:23:32 pm
Noone said it's "silent".  Seriously dude, are you trolling at this point or what.  There is NO DIRECTIONAL/SURROUND SOUND so if there is 2 or more cav on a map you will ALWAYS be hearing horses, whether they are 10000m away or right behind you.  The sound engine is shitty.  Period.  If your answer is to start looking around the moment you "hear cav" then you would do nothing but spin 360 circles the entire round because there is no directional component to the sound in the game that's worth a damn at all.

Seriously man, it's 2011.  Play any even half-assed FPS game and the directional sound engine is better.  In most you can pinpoint those footsteps behind you and on the 2nd floor above you from across the street (if you hear them over all the explosions and shit).  In this game, fuck, you're basically better off playing with no sound and listening to music the majority of the time.

And that's not even getting into the other sound engine problems:  The dude in plate and chain armor is just as fucking silent as the ninjass in the black robes and leather boots when he's running around your flank?  Surrrrre....

I cba to read this, we've had our differences gorath and I already know that your arguments are not suited to intelligent debate

edit : what the hell I like arguing :P basically warband is not an fps of 2011 it is a rpg produced on a relatively cheap budget released early 2010. The sound engine is not going to be state of the art and its something we cant change. if you hear hooves have a brief look around then continue, it does not require constant spinning. It is simply a matter of using all senses available but if you want proof of horse sound being at least in part usable then ask people whether cav gets them more with music turned on compared to off... I know my ratio raises immensely :P
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: ThePoopy on September 04, 2011, 10:25:29 pm
gorath, GK are as brain damaged as LLJK try to be, dont mind them
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 04, 2011, 10:30:38 pm
gorath, GK are as brain damaged as LLJK try to be, dont mind them

Apparently.  Either that or they have some super secret mod that completely changes the warband sound engine that the rest of us don't have...
Or they're cav heavy and lobbying.  /shrug

Either way cav are pretty well balanced in this mod, the only issues are due to the game engine itself and nothing we can change (afaik, perhaps the dev team has plans when WSE is out or something).
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 04, 2011, 10:31:42 pm
gorath, GK are as brain damaged as LLJK try to be, dont mind them

Poop cant even remember back to the day where he rode an arabian so on the subject of sound minds... also hes sore from us putting him out of so many fights apparently :P
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lizard_man on September 04, 2011, 10:35:20 pm
funny, i spend more time on my horse than i do on foot, and i usually do pretty well against cavalry when i'm dismounted, or simply playing as infantry, and that's with a 1 handed weapon, my desert horse dies when someone spits on it, i'm suprised it doesn't drop dead when it starts to rain, it's bad enough that i have to resort to using such a horse since the upkeep on any decent horse is just rediculous, it seems alot of people are having trouble with lancers, yet a nerf would effect all cavalry, as a 1 handed cavalry player, i have to get in close, maneuverability means alot to me since i have to dodge alot of pikes and such, so, less maneuverability and speed, if this nerf were to happen, i hope you also change the models...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 10:37:52 pm
Poop cant even remember back to the day where he rode an arabian so on the subject of sound minds... also hes sore from us putting him out of so many fights apparently :P

True...he used to constantly rage at us when GK first emerged  :lol:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 04, 2011, 10:39:07 pm
i have to get in close, maneuverability means alot to me since i have to dodge alot of pikes and such, so, less maneuverability and speed

More speed and hp, far less maneuverability would still probably be the best way to rebalance horses *IF for some reason it's decided they need rebalancing*.  It's silly how tight their turning radius is and that they can stop on a dime and go from 0-60 in .2 seconds.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 10:39:39 pm
More speed and hp, far less maneuverability would still probably be the best way to rebalance horses.  It's silly how tight their turning radius is and that they can stop on a dime and go from 0-60 in .2 seconds.

That's the Arabian. It's a lot slower on all other horses. Don't generalise.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 04, 2011, 10:45:58 pm
Gorath.. afaik fyi GK is a pure cav clan..
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 10:46:31 pm
Gorath.. afaik fyi GK is a pure cav clan..

Kinda obvious *looks down at sig :|*
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 04, 2011, 10:54:33 pm
That's the Arabian. It's a lot slower on all other horses. Don't generalise.

Actually I was speaking from the perspective of seeing so many coursers *coughHueycough* on the field going 200mph, stopping without slide and spinning 360 degrees in .2 seconds in order to attack any side at will.

Gorath.. afaik fyi GK is a pure cav clan..

Well still trying to give the benefit of the doubt that they're not just lobbying from bias.  It happens.  Hell Chaos is pretty anti-ranged yet we still feel it doesn't need anymore nerfs and in fact probably needs to change back to pierce damage (perhaps a slight reduction in the damage number to balance it if needed, but pierce nonetheless)....
just less people using it ffs.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Reinhardt on September 04, 2011, 10:57:04 pm
Get a pike.  Playing as cav on NA Servers isn't a cakewalk because people actually pay attention to cav.

So many goddamn ranged, costs of horse + armor is ridiculous, heirloomed courser even dies in 1-shot by crossbows 50% of the time.

It really is not OP. You took our hierloom bonus, our lance angle radius, and our stats and you want to take more? Just nerf HA again.


EDIT: Oh! Did I forget to mention the fact that 2handers, any polearms, and even 1handers can take down my horse with ease since my heavy lance loses like 100 reach while lancing forward (please keep in mind lancing forward is the ONLY direction that I can lance)?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 04, 2011, 10:59:22 pm
So many goddamn ranged, costs of horse + armor is ridiculous, heirloomed courser even dies in 1-shot by crossbows 50% of the time.

It really is not OP. You took our hierloom bonus, our lance angle radius, and our stats and you want to take more? Just nerf HA again.

I'm with ya man.  Cav doesn't need anymore nerfs.  We just need to force TW to give us a sound engine that isn't complete garbage.  Brb, I just heard an enemy infantry sneaking into the building two floors below me and to my rear-left in BF2:PR...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 04, 2011, 11:04:36 pm
cav does not need a nerf. Dumbass players need a buff, like assisting a pikemen
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Reinhardt on September 04, 2011, 11:04:46 pm
I'm with ya man.  Cav doesn't need anymore nerfs.  We just need to force TW to give us a sound engine that isn't complete garbage.  Brb, I just heard an enemy infantry sneaking into the building two floors below me and to my rear-left in BF2:PR...

While I CAN agree I've been killed several times as infantry by cavalry that was somewhat quiet, most of the time it was my own fault for not looking or assuming it was allied cav. What I'm saying is that we've been nerfed enough. Good cav is good cav, bad cav is bad cav, and good 2h spammers are good 2h spammers. Leave it as it is.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 04, 2011, 11:06:53 pm
While I CAN agree I've been killed several times as infantry by cavalry that was somewhat quiet

Again, it's not the volume or lack thereof it's the non-directional functionality that doesn't give you a clue as to location and distance of the cav you're hearing.  Volume is fine (other than cav across the map sounding just as loud as the one up your ass)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Teeth on September 04, 2011, 11:13:20 pm
I hereby declare that I never have to read Overdriven's posts in a balancing discussion again! Man, you can spit out a load of bull.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 04, 2011, 11:14:14 pm
Actually I was speaking from the perspective of seeing so many coursers *coughHueycough* on the field going 200mph, stopping without slide and spinning 360 degrees in .2 seconds in order to attack any side at will.

Well still trying to give the benefit of the doubt that they're not just lobbying from bias.  It happens.  Hell Chaos is pretty anti-ranged yet we still feel it doesn't need anymore nerfs and in fact probably needs to change back to pierce damage (perhaps a slight reduction in the damage number to balance it if needed, but pierce nonetheless)....
just less people using it ffs.

Coursers really don't slow down that easily...maybe if you have very high riding. But with 6 riding and my champ courser I know curbing the speed is hard once you get going. They also take A LOT longer to reach that speed. They certainly don't have very good acceleration. I know Arabians can do what you describe though, champ ones especially. I've grown used to chasing lancers only to have them stop and double back and lance you within a split second. Fortunately I tend to be a lot more aware of that trick now.

O and had fun killing all those Chaos cavalry today in the Fallen vs Druzhina battle. It's always amusing to head shot guys on warhorses   :twisted:

But yeah...I'm with you that the sound engine is the most crippling factor. Cav are impossible to tell directional. It makes it hard even as a cav player. But not a lot we can do really  :|

I hereby declare that I never have to read Overdriven's posts in a balancing discussion again! Man, you can spit out a load of bull.

Good for you. It'll be nice to read less of yours. You're so anti cav it makes my eyes hurt to read.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Bulzur on September 04, 2011, 11:25:41 pm
Pikemen seems to be real HEROES for the infantry. THE perfect anti-cav infantry. But that's BS.

It's not an anti-cav, it just acts as a scarecrow. And it doesn't even work from behind. I can't recall how many pikemen i saw getting mobed by two cav. And usually, the first suicide charge of one cav isn't real suicide if well-timed, cause the horse doesn't die in one hit. Then another cav comes, bumping/couching/thrusting/killing the pikeman.

Plus, you don't need to be AWARE to be a pikeman. You need to have a radar and eyes behind your back 24/24. The only way to actually kill cav as a pikeman, is to feint being afk, and have the awesome best timing to turn-thrust, stopping the cav, then doing two good thrusts on the horse (luckily not blocked by the player) and horse is dead. But now, with maneuver and jet ponies, it doesn't even work anymore.

You can't win being passive, and that's exactly what are pikemen. And seriously, playing as a pikeman is too much nervous and tired. Compared to the thrill of cav. I can't play more than 1h straight of pikeman without getting bored and tired. So yes, it's usefull for the team but it's bs for the player.
That's against cav, of course. Luckily, it's still enjoyable against infantry.
But when being a pikeman is more enjoyable against infantry than cav, then there's maybe something wrong.

Sound engine, of course, would help dearly our dear pikeman. It will lessen the stress to always look at the back and the sides, everytime, every second, every... *pikeman killed by horse archer*
omg. . . .

I even wonder why GK clan takes so much expanse trying to defend horses. I know some of them are decent enough to easily overcome a -2 maneuver, -2 speed nerf. But then, there are the others... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 04, 2011, 11:45:39 pm
thats why range exists
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 05, 2011, 12:05:19 am
Good for you. It'll be nice to read less of yours. You're so anti cav it makes my eyes hurt to read.

It goes both ways ya know
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: tankmen on September 05, 2011, 12:06:59 am
i ride around on a champion charger(at x5 only to pay upkeep), and frankly its over powered because i go faster than infantry, i get kills as well, wtf that clearly makes it op, the whole double edged sword charge i do which if they hit me does unbelievable amounts of damage back to me or my "armored" horse well frankly thats op as well, also i top the charts here n there when it should be 2hers topping the charts not me. The only way to fix cav is to prevent them from doing anything, just remove all horses except the sumpter then you wont die by cav and make these thread
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 05, 2011, 12:08:58 am
does unbelievable amounts of damage back to me or my "armored" horse well frankly thats op as well

Well to be fair, armored horses take a fucking billion hits from a 48c or 33p weapon to kill, and by merely having a shield equipped you are able to deploy an inpenetrable forcefield around even your horses ass preventing any and all melee hits from damaging the animal.

Just sayin.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 05, 2011, 12:26:46 am
Well to be fair, armored horses take a fucking billion hits from a 48c or 33p weapon to kill, and by merely having a shield equipped you are able to deploy an inpenetrable forcefield around even your horses ass preventing any and all melee hits from damaging the animal.

Just sayin.

Slow as anything though. One pike and you're surrounded by enemies and screwed cause you can't get out of there fast enough.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 05, 2011, 12:29:15 am
GK defend horses cause we are a dedicated cav clan :P simple enough! Cavalry was good where it was, then whiners did their whining and we got nerfed several times. They expected us to lie down and go off the radar, they are dissapointed to find that cav is still killing them even after the nerfs they have taken and it seems people fail to realise how its their actions that make it so easy for us :P If people keep whining they believe they can take us out of the game, maybe allowing them to forget how they have faults ? :P

Bottom line we defend horses because we put time and effort into being competent cavalry and people seem to want to nullify our experience and work...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: tankmen on September 05, 2011, 12:30:01 am
GK defend horses cause we are a dedicated cav clan :P simple enough! Cavalry was good where it was, then whiners did their whining and we got nerfed several times. They expected us to lie down and go off the radar, they are dissapointed to find that cav is still killing them even after the nerfs they have taken and it seems people fail to realise how its their actions that make it so easy for us :P If people keep whining they believe they can take us out of the game, maybe allowing them to forget how they have faults ? :P

Bottom line we defend horses because we put time and effort into being competent cavalry and people seem to want to nullify our experience and work...
gtfo your logic this is a whine thread  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 05, 2011, 12:39:44 am
gtfo your logic this is a whine thread  :rolleyes:

Good point! Sorry, I'll start inputting in a manner more suited to the thread...

actually its surprisingly hard to lower my mind to the level of the whiners... I cant do it I'm afraid, common sense keeps kicking in :P
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Nessaj on September 05, 2011, 01:11:41 am
It is always good to have contrast or everyone would just be padding each others on the shoulder and nothing would be fixed or done ever.

Personally I just dislike that Cav is so silent, but as mentioned several times that is due to the actual game engine, there is no directional sound (lol). Nothing to be done except perhaps WSE (?).
Other than that, the fact that people have 7 riding etc now makes them incredible fast and able to turn around on a dime, I loathe that spinning around on your horse in circles while trying to reach the enemy with the tip of your lance, it is completely ridiculous that you would have the same maneuverability on a horse as on foot, both in terms of game-play and that it's frankly silly as hell.

I can understand why those playing Cav are defending it because it is fun to play (because its a bit OP :p) and with high riding utilizing a heirloomed horse the damage buff from pure speed is insane.

If we could just fix the directional sound issue I'd be inclined to care less about the other issues though.

Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 05, 2011, 01:47:13 am
Slow as anything though. One pike and you're surrounded by enemies and screwed cause you can't get out of there fast enough.

True.  If the enemies don't fucking teamkill each other in their rabid rush to attack the horse (which then bumps it's way out of danger).  Teammates:  The most dangerous enemy.
If we could just fix the directional sound issue I'd be inclined to care less about the other issues though.

Indeed.  It is, imo, the ONLY major problem with cav.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 05, 2011, 02:21:10 am
well but.. just onE thing.

THE SOUND CAN'T BE FIXED.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 05, 2011, 02:25:34 am
So deal with it?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 05, 2011, 02:28:30 am
Well.. NO!

You see what happens is that once something is OP, more and more players get's drawn to that playstyle. Seen it a million times with archers and xbows.

Balancers need to play evenings on EU1 to see what I mean. Constant cav domination. And when GK is on they ride the x5.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 05, 2011, 02:31:10 am
That's due to banner balance...not cav. Even if you nerfed cav, having GK on, or any clan for that matter, who works together and uses a particular class can often result in steamrolling the servers for a long time.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lizard_man on September 05, 2011, 02:41:31 am
the fact that i can't hear someone in plated armour approaching me from the rear makes INFANTRY op, nerf them...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 05, 2011, 03:12:25 am
the fact that i can't hear someone in plated armour approaching me from the rear makes INFANTRYPLATE/HEAVY ARMOR op, nerf them...

Fixed
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 05, 2011, 03:14:02 am
When I started this thread I didn't expect it to "explode" like this. Fourteen pages in just two days! Must be some kind of a record on these boards.

So it's not just mine imagination, it's a hot topic and a real issue.

But I'm suprised that no one is against couched heavy lance, I hate that thing. Yes I can avoid it (but they can easily switch sides of couched lance, it has more angle that lance thrust) but I hate the fact that it gives power to crappy cav. Today I saw people who never stab with their heavy lance, just run around trying to get enough speed so they can press X while galloping into crowd...

Yes, I'm 2h player. Why? Because that's the only enjoyable class left. Archery is cool too but hate the lack of proper melee weapon and some decent wpf/ps. Cav is retarded class to play after lance angle nerf, it's simply super boring and has more to do with horse stats and ridins stats than anything else. Shielders always were super boring, 1h cav is slashbuming from behind, xbow is now plain retarded..

After all those nerfs 2h stands as only fun class to play in this game, contraty to the most OP and the most boring at the same time, cavalry.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lizard_man on September 05, 2011, 03:37:53 am
Gorath, my point being, cavalry would take a nerf as a whole when it seems to me that most people have a problem with lancers, not cavalry as a whole, horses are in no way op, why nerf them, as for lancers, they're a pain in the arse but i don't think they need a nerf, say cavalry does get nerfed, what then, the nerf this because it can kill me attitude is a load of bullshit...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 05, 2011, 03:42:56 am
Gorath, my point being, cavalry would take a nerf as a whole when it seems to me that most people have a problem with lancers, not cavalry as a whole, horses are in no way op, why nerf them, as for lancers, they're a pain in the arse but i don't think they need a nerf, say cavalry does get nerfed, what then, the nerf this because it can kill me attitude is a load of bullshit...

I was simply clarifying that what you proposed was a "type" of infantry, and really just a gear issue not a class issue.  Though still being overall a *sound* issue.
Anyone with a horse is "cav", without one they're infantry.
Someone with Plate armor is simply infantry with plate, while someone with light armor is infantry with light armor.  The nerf point you were making is applied to the plate/metal armors, not the class.

Anyways.  My point still stands that Cav itself is fine and neither needs a buff nor a nerf.  It's simply the shitty nature of playing a game with vehicular slaughter of this kind while using a shitty 80's sound engine *maybe early 90's :P*.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Siiem on September 05, 2011, 04:05:29 am
what then, the nerf this because it can kill me attitude is a load of bullshit...

It worked on 2h'ers so why not cav? If someone feels something is OP they will say it. Me going on about long spear/pikes others cav. However I still think Long spear is a bigger issue I do feel that cavalry, and their ability to either 1 shot with a 1h by bumping and then slashing as the guy is locked in bump animation is very unfair. Also how lancers with a MW heavy lance can 1 hit kill without even couching is bogus.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lizard_man on September 05, 2011, 04:18:48 am
the fact that i can block skull crushing blows with my shield then be thrown off balance by someones foot is also something that is unfair, it's pretty much a bumpslash for someone on foot, though i must admit, bump lancing is fucking ridiculous...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: The_Angle on September 05, 2011, 04:28:07 am
When I started this thread I didn't expect it to "explode" like this. Fourteen pages in just two days! Must be some kind of a record on these boards.

So it's not just mine imagination, it's a hot topic and a real issue.

But I'm suprised that no one is against couched heavy lance, I hate that thing. Yes I can avoid it (but they can easily switch sides of couched lance, it has more angle that lance thrust) but I hate the fact that it gives power to crappy cav. Today I saw people who never stab with their heavy lance, just run around trying to get enough speed so they can press X while galloping into crowd...

Yes, I'm 2h player. Why? Because that's the only enjoyable class left. Archery is cool too but hate the lack of proper melee weapon and some decent wpf/ps. Cav is retarded class to play after lance angle nerf, it's simply super boring and has more to do with horse stats and ridins stats than anything else. Shielders always were super boring, 1h cav is slashbuming from behind, xbow is now plain retarded..

After all those nerfs 2h stands as only fun class to play in this game, contraty to the most OP and the most boring at the same time, cavalry.
Gotta be trolling me.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Reinhardt on September 05, 2011, 09:59:40 am
It worked on 2h'ers so why not cav? If someone feels something is OP they will say it. Me going on about long spear/pikes others cav. However I still think Long spear is a bigger issue I do feel that cavalry, and their ability to either 1 shot with a 1h by bumping and then slashing as the guy is locked in bump animation is very unfair. Also how lancers with a MW heavy lance can 1 hit kill without even couching is bogus.

What the-?

Going FULL speed on a horse that we pay an arm and a leg for (20k+ half the time) and a lance that costs 9k or so, I think we goddamn deserve to 1-shot people who run at us or are stationary. Cav top the scoreboards just as 2h spammers do. These threads are annoying, I might as well stay away again. I'll just wait for the next nerf, since clearly people will never stop bitching about classes being OP in this mod. :/
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Siiem on September 05, 2011, 10:14:43 am
What the-?

Going FULL speed on a horse that we pay an arm and a leg for (20k+ half the time) and a lance that costs 9k or so, I think we goddamn deserve to 1-shot people who run at us or are stationary. Cav top the scoreboards just as 2h spammers do. These threads are annoying, I might as well stay away again. I'll just wait for the next nerf, since clearly people will never stop bitching about classes being OP in this mod. :/

Not without couching you don't. If you couch someone sure you deserve that 1 hit kill but not with a stab.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 05, 2011, 10:23:43 am
Not without couching you don't. If you couch someone sure you deserve that 1 hit kill but not with a stab.

there is one guy that dont even die to couch "Grambol" or something like that, couched him twice every round and he survived both hits
wear some more armor and stop whining, no wait this might make you pay more upkeep ? ok forget about it keep posting

and also being hit by sharp pointy stick at around 40mph to the head could be a lethal shot, am i wrong ?

the mass factor is on our side im afraid
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Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fartface on September 05, 2011, 11:51:04 am
once again instead of being an man and solving your own problems peep wil just whine and let some other dude solve it.
just get more awareness , if you get taken by an lancer while your walking its your own stupid fault get an pike.
evrytime somebody gets killed by something instead of changin something himself they whine to devs comeone!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 05, 2011, 12:07:09 pm
evrytime somebody gets killed by something instead of changin something himself they whine to devs comeone!
Can't.... quite.... code.... new..... sound..... engine..... nerd..... level.....insufficient.......brain......hemorraging......from.......strain......

*We now bring you this word from our sponsors:  PIKES ARE OP!!! ZOMG!!!111oneoneONEon!1   NERF ZEEEE PIKES!!!!!! TOOOO MANY PIKES ON FIELD!!!!!!!!!*
"And now back to the show:  Cavalry is OP!!!!1111oneonON!1
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 05, 2011, 12:14:59 pm
First of all Darian, I completely understand your point of view. I'm not big fan of nerfs either. But since you aren't playing for a long time you can't remember the fact that whenever something is too effective for it's own good, it gets nerfed in this mod.

Okay, don't nerf the cav, no problem there. But then give back 2H the old lolstab, old sword speed, old stab damage (34 on german ftw), give archers their projectile speed back, their 3 quivers of arrows, their melee weapon. Make everyone overpowered so everyone dies quickly, just like we die to cav.

But no, they nerfed 2H three or four times, archery god knows how many, throwing, poles... cav were nerfed once and it isn't actually a nerfed, it just buffed them.

Currently there is so many cav and will be more in the future. Why? Because it's super easy for FOTM morons to score kill and that's exactly what majority of this community consisted of piece of shit whiny kids want. They don't care about getting better, they don't want to try something new, they don't want to play nice.. this community is now just a bunch of kill greedy, zero skill, kids who want KILLS!

And cav is where killing starts and ends atm.

2H guy who top the scoreboard on map filled with cavalry is immensely more skilled than all cavalry players combined.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kafein on September 05, 2011, 12:18:20 pm
Most of the good players that get killed by cav usually only get killed because they were ganked by cav. A good cav rapetrain (2 lancers following each other) is a very good war machine : first guy bumps or kills, second kills the bumped enemy.It's hard to counter cav when you are outnumbered by them, just as with infantry or ranged enemies.

Very few good people are killed by lone cav without infantry or cav support. Cav is pretty much a support class that has all the assets to kill many people, but are fragile, costly, dependant on heirlooms (non heirloomed heavy lances suck, non heirloomed horses suck, especially in cav duels), are game for HA and HX and need others to engage the enemy units before they can kill anything. They are also good for killing the enemy cav when they outnumber it or are significantly better.

Lately I didn't see many more cav topping the scoreboard than 2h or archers.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 05, 2011, 12:20:16 pm
Have you been playing lately?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kafein on September 05, 2011, 12:22:38 pm
First of all Darian, I completely understand your point of view. I'm not big fan of nerfs either. But since you aren't playing for a long time you can't remember the fact that whenever something is too effective for it's own good, it gets nerfed in this mod.

Okay, don't nerf the cav, no problem there. But then give back 2H the old lolstab, old sword speed, old stab damage (34 on german ftw), give archers their projectile speed back, their 3 quivers of arrows, their melee weapon. Make everyone overpowered so everyone dies quickly, just like we die to cav.

But no, they nerfed 2H three or four times, archery god knows how many, throwing, poles... cav were nerfed once and it isn't actually a nerfed, it just buffed them.

Currently there is so many cav and will be more in the future. Why? Because it's super easy for FOTM morons to score kill and that's exactly what majority of this community consisted of piece of shit whiny kids want. They don't care about getting better, they don't want to try something new, they don't want to play nice.. this community is now just a bunch of kill greedy, zero skill, kids who want KILLS!

And cav is where killing starts and ends atm.

2H guy who top the scoreboard on map filled with cavalry is immensely more skilled than all cavalry players combined.

Those new cav you talk about are super easy to kill for ranged, pikemen, 2h (because they have nearly as much reach as pikemen without the "crappy" weapon) and other lance cav. Usually newcomers that want to play as cav try it then realise they die before the first tick and their wallet is empty after two rounds. Then they respec 2h, polearm or ranged.


Have you been playing lately?

Yes, not much on EU_1 though. The map rotation on our server also likes random plains anyway, and we generally have more than 50 people playing when I'm there.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Wookimonsta on September 05, 2011, 12:35:56 pm
I take it none of you have ever played a strat battle with lots of cav yes?
Because in each battle there cav barely got any kills. This was mainly because the enemy team was organized and stuck together. The strength of cav is to pick off stragglers, in normal battle, the team splits into small groups. These are easy targets for cav.
So instead of whining, organize, bring some pikers and work as a team.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kafein on September 05, 2011, 12:43:39 pm
I take it none of you have ever played a strat battle with lots of cav yes?
Because in each battle there cav barely got any kills. This was mainly because the enemy team was organized and stuck together. The strength of cav is to pick off stragglers, in normal battle, the team splits into small groups. These are easy targets for cav.
So instead of whining, organize, bring some pikers and work as a team.

This is sort of a void statement, because you can't really organize randomers properly. Most of the time it will result in the team splitting, you dying early because you were screaming in team chat, that sort of things. But it's clear that organization and good troop balance (many shielders, many pikemen) can match a good cav team without problems.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Wookimonsta on September 05, 2011, 12:48:16 pm
This is sort of a void statement, because you can't really organize randomers properly. Most of the time it will result in the team splitting, you dying early because you were screaming in team chat, that sort of things. But it's clear that organization and good troop balance (many shielders, many pikemen) can match a good cav team without problems.

yes, thats the point. People are mad because they get killed by a class that is designed (due to lance turning reduction) to buttstab. They don't have enough of the counters to this class about and then whine when they get killed by it.

My suggestion. Decrease Maneuver of all horses. Increase speed (and maybe HP for the lighter cav). This means cav cant so easily weave in and out of enemy groups but instead rely more on a straightforward charge. Increase the HP of the horses to counteract the fact they can't dodge ranged as easily anymore.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: v/onMega on September 05, 2011, 01:24:44 pm
There is many factors coming together on this :-)

One general fact that always is true:

Medskilled ppl. tend to whine (more).

Now I see siiem complaining for example, and he really knows how to play 2h... Strange.

Well.
IMHO:
The sound in crpg WORKS PERFECTLY FINE. If u blame this, either your ears or your gear is rusty.

You can nerf cav nearly as hard as you want, THOUGH NOTHING WILL, EVER get people to pay fucking more attention.

The nerf on lance rotation was needed, yes, a good change.
BUT...
If you still think cav is OP, just spec GK_Kerrigan for some time.
3/4 of his kills are done effortless.
Why?
The opponent is giving him the chance to do so.
Its so idiotic, stupid....absolutely beyond funny how unbelievably unaware 3/4 of the players are.

3/4 of any ranged personal cant make proper use of their weapon (I play xbow and bow from time to time, so regardless of the archery nerfs)

So what exactly should get nerfed to make it harder for cav in such an enviroment? Really curios...

Cav is damn powerful, yes.
But if you try to get a clear perspective on the reasons, you ll see that 2/3 of the work is allrdy done by the potential victims.

Funny, I play this game for so fucking long, always on foot, and cav now feels really really okay...

Dont get me wrong:
Actually I am against the nerfing policy in general, the "leveling" system and many other things....but i try to keep a clear view on things.

Nerf pike/longspear speed though!
1h/shield is fun btw!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 05, 2011, 01:28:20 pm
Cavalry has been nerfed every patch, at some point you have to realise that it's not that cav are overpowered it's that retards don't have a clue how to fight cavalry so they get destroyed. Most of the people who complain that cavalry are overpowered try to jumpslash riders (BAD IDEA) or get killed by cavalry when they are HONOURABLY dueling someone 1v1 and immediately complain when in that situation it was technically a 2v1 and you should never expect to win a 2v1.

this
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 05, 2011, 01:39:58 pm
Most of the good players that get killed by cav usually only get killed because they were ganked by cav. A good cav rapetrain (2 lancers following each other) is a very good war machine : first guy bumps or kills, second kills the bumped enemy.It's hard to counter cav when you are outnumbered by them, just as with infantry or ranged enemies.

luckily there are things called "hills", "steep terrain zones", "narrow streets", "ladders", "roofs", "pinpoint xbows/throwing axes", oh and pikes/spears/anything that make a horse rear and finally upkeep.

i play a lot my lancer alt. crappy armor, crappy helmet, crappy boots, heavy lance and sarranid horse (yes the horse that gets instakilled by a cudgel). the horse upkeep is +/- 1500.

i can use it only when multi is x3 or more... or at x1 if i want to rapidly deplete my 30k gold bank.

a lgood pikeman covering infantry or ranged, can easly stop 2-3 lancers while the team do the rest. best tag team is pikeman+mauler. no heavy cav with shield can stand.

and i can't say how many lancers i dehorsed with my thrower alt (below warhorse, all horses get 1shot by jarids. warhorse and cataphract needs 2, charger needs 3, plated charger needs 4-5)

stop the nerf-o-rama fashion already. the game is somehow balanced.

devs should buff player's awareness and nerf retardness. i hope WSE can do that  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 05, 2011, 02:56:29 pm
But no, they nerfed 2H three or four times, archery god knows how many, throwing, poles... cav were nerfed once and it isn't actually a nerfed, it just buffed them.

seems like you know what your talking about, yup ^^
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 05, 2011, 03:05:25 pm
I won't stop until I see your clan on foot, walking :wink:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 05, 2011, 03:14:03 pm
I won't stop until I see your clan on foot, walking :wink:

Might be a while yet I'm afraid :P but in the mean time enjoy our lances in your back :D
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Assarhaddon on September 05, 2011, 03:23:05 pm
*Reads the forum.*

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 05, 2011, 03:45:53 pm
I won't stop until I see your clan on foot, walking :wink:

I won't stop until I see you permanently strapped to a sumpter as target practice.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 05, 2011, 05:07:30 pm
NERF CAV NERF CAV NERF CAV
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 05, 2011, 05:09:08 pm
NERF CAV NERF CAV NERF CAV

QFT
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Diomedes on September 05, 2011, 05:51:49 pm
Only very skilled cav, in my experience, can counter a well-aimed jump+stab.  Once you get the hang of this maneuver cav become much less of an issue so long as you keep aware of your surroundings.

I'm not an exceptionally good player but I often survive till the end minutes of Battle rounds.  This is mostly because, I think, I'm generally more watchful than many other players.  This lets me avoid/escape ganks of most kinds most of the time and gives me more opportunity to attack unexpectedly.  Perhaps EU players should spec some NA cav to see what kills them?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 05, 2011, 05:59:59 pm
NA cav is LLJK cav :D
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: The_Angle on September 05, 2011, 06:17:21 pm
Welcome to the trollthread disguised as a Suggestion thread, please keep all arms and ears inside the cockpit gentlemen and bairns.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 05, 2011, 06:21:27 pm
As I said, go ride your pony NA nub :D
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: The_Angle on September 05, 2011, 06:23:17 pm
I'm from EU and I'm a Pure One-hander :B
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: kukufarikki on September 05, 2011, 06:24:46 pm
i see you no longer have your clan tags in your character names, did they disprove of your trolling?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 05, 2011, 06:29:20 pm
i see you no longer have your clan tags in your character names, did they disprove of your trolling?

:lol:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Reinhardt on September 05, 2011, 07:16:59 pm
....Someone mentioned something about 2h lolstab. I had to post again.

What the fuck? I've killed 2hers before the lance radius patch almost 95% of the time. Why? Because I knew how to broadside (In fact, it was what I worked on primarily). They took that away from me, so I learned to be good cavalry again over time (Only being able to lance in front of me). I kill 2hers 50% of the time now. Only 50% of the time can I ACTUALLY kill a guy with a sword that's half the length of my lance. I pay a very pretty penny for my upkeep and horse etc, and I expect to have a chance to kill people. Not necessarily expecting to be on the top all the time, but at least be able to take down 2hers most of the time.

The point is, 2hers can take cav down...easily... if they're not total shit.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Blackzilla on September 05, 2011, 07:58:23 pm
he is right.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 05, 2011, 08:20:36 pm
I truly don't understand why you NA guys have vote in anything. There's barely enough of you to fill EU1 :D
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Mtemtko on September 05, 2011, 08:47:12 pm
I truly don't understand why you NA guys have vote in anything. There's barely enough of you to fill EU1 :D

In the name of all those NA guys:

You don't know shit.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 05, 2011, 08:48:52 pm
I truly don't understand why you NA guys have vote in anything. There's barely enough of you to fill EU1 :D

Wow...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lizard_man on September 05, 2011, 08:50:07 pm
Leshma, with your stupid comments, how can anyone take this thread serious...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 05, 2011, 08:50:36 pm
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Title: Problem with cav I haven't seen posted before
Post by: LordRichrich on September 05, 2011, 10:56:39 pm
So playing on battle I stab a GK's horse, it reared, GK then stabbed me while stationary and dealt 50% damage to my full health with 40 body armour, 21 str and 4 IF
Now that's bloody over powered, I can't think of a solution to this, but it needs to be addressed, soon
Title: Re: Problem with cav I haven't seen posted before
Post by: Xscizorx on September 05, 2011, 10:58:46 pm
Five threads with the OP saying "omg cav kill me. They super op. Nerf plz"
If you want to state your opinion, please do it on one of the four other open cavcry threads.
Title: Re: Problem with cav I haven't seen posted before
Post by: Overdriven on September 05, 2011, 11:21:01 pm
So playing on battle I stab a GK's horse, it reared, GK then stabbed me while stationary and dealt 50% damage to my full health with 40 body armour, 21 str and 4 IF
Now that's bloody over powered, I can't think of a solution to this, but it needs to be addressed, soon

This is usually because GK are dedicated lancers and have a horrendous amount of wpf/PS to do damage with said lance. It's also a case of the horse probably wasn't entirely stationary. If he lanced you as the horse was rearing, I believe the speed bonus still counts. If the horse was turning and you were moving (I assume something of the sort happened because they will want to get out of there quickly), there's also a speed bonus to take into account. Finally, because they are dedicated, that will be a MW heavy lance that hit you. It packs a punch.

Simply put, if you rear a horse, don't assume the rider is incapable of damaging you, they can, regardless of lancer/1h or whatever. You still need to be able to block.

O, and for a foot soldier, 40 body armour isn't actually an awful lot, it's very average (mail with surcoat for instance), so you've gotta expect to be hurt by something like that.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 06, 2011, 12:34:04 am
Ye it could very well have been one of our lvl 32-34's who have decent PS with a masterwork heavy lance :P Thats gonna hurt along with the pierce damage, even if stationary. But tbh if its reared you should step back a bit and keep it at range presuming you use a polearm :P
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 06, 2011, 12:37:45 am
TBH when it's reared (or runs into a wall like derpacav do) the rider should be thrown to the ground.  Just sayin.   :wink:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: vinnytk on September 06, 2011, 12:38:06 am
I jumped on EU_1 to see what all the crying is about.  The server had 100+ people in it and the there were probably 4 pikes/ls between everyone.  No wonder you think cav is OP.

This would explain why euros don't think long spears are the most broken wep in the game but that is for a different thread.



And yalls range 'tactics' is hilarious.  Half the enemy team was hiding behind a house missing xbow shots.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 06, 2011, 12:39:47 am
And yalls range 'tactics' is hilarious.  Half the enemy team was hiding behind a house missing xbow shots.

Ranged in EU hate shooting horses. That's why I spend 90% of my time killing the enemy cavs horses/them rather than trying to shoot infantry. Because no one else seems to want to do the job. Then they come on here and complain  :rolleyes: Gotten pretty good at bringing down half the enemies cav.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 06, 2011, 12:41:25 am
When u rear a horse..

Switch to another wep if you have it, move IN FRONT of the horse, He cant accelerate or trample you from a standstill. Basically you lock him down.

Then slash the horses head for 2x or 4x damage.. usually it goes down after 2 hits.

Hit the rider once while he's falling, once on the ground, and afterwards he should be pretty nervous and fall for a faint or a held swing.

Noobmistakes are
1. Moving away. This just gives room for the rider to get away.
2. Not switching weapons. The pike /spear is easily blocked, and hard to hit the horse head with.
3. Attacking the rider immediately. You get 2 free hits on him if you get his horse down.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 06, 2011, 11:20:40 am

Noobmistakes are

3. Attacking the rider immediately. You get 2 free hits on him if you get his horse down.

unless he have a plated charger or a charger. then you'll better aim for the rider. or grab a great maul and aim the rider. no matter what, he will die.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 06, 2011, 11:39:05 am
Before, Leshma was ignored, now people are responding.
Do we need to bring Michael back or something for a proper comparison in trolling?

Leshma, with your stupid comments, how can anyone take this thread serious...

You say that like the thread was worth taking seriously in the first place.  :wink:
Leshma's comments are rather appropriate in nature for a thread of this caliber.
Title: Re: Problem with cav I haven't seen posted before
Post by: Kafein on September 06, 2011, 12:05:21 pm
So playing on battle I stab a GK's horse, it reared, GK then stabbed me while stationary and dealt 50% damage to my full health with 40 body armour, 21 str and 4 IF
Now that's bloody over powered, I can't think of a solution to this, but it needs to be addressed, soon

Lolstab also works with a lance on horseback. Good horsemen turn while releasing their thrust to inflict maximum damage when stationary.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 06, 2011, 12:17:03 pm
People are responding not because I am the one who started the thread, but because it annoys them greatly on EU servers. Whenever one team has 5 cav players more then the other outcome of that round is already known.

How many times I see new players, without any knowledge of the game, trying different classes and failing at each of them. Then they try cavalry, pick a heavy lance, they aren't very good with it but there is couching and bump stabbing so they can score some kills that way and feel power over their equally unskilled opponents on foot.

That is the problem I have with cavalry.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: ToxicKilla on September 06, 2011, 12:39:41 pm
Cavalry is fine. And that's coming from an archer. They are already either slow as shite (heavier horses) or can't turn for shite (faster horses). It's fine aslong as you know they are coming, I think they just need to make the galloping sounds louder.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 06, 2011, 12:46:11 pm
How many times I see new players, without any knowledge of the game, trying different classes and failing at each of them. Then they try X class.

That is the problem I have with X class..

I think that can apply to almost any class.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 06, 2011, 01:24:49 pm
People are responding not because I am the one who started the thread, but because it annoys them greatly on EU servers. Whenever one team has 5 cav players more then the other outcome of that round is already known.

How many times I see new players, without any knowledge of the game, trying different classes and failing at each of them. Then they try cavalry, pick a heavy lance, they aren't very good with it but there is couching and bump stabbing so they can score some kills that way and feel power over their equally unskilled opponents on foot.

That is the problem I have with cavalry.

O yes because new players can instantly get the 20k it takes to buy a decent horse. Anything less and you'll struggle if you're not a full build already because you're horse will go down in an instant and you won't have the PS/speed needed for the kill. You sir...know nothing about cavalry and that is obvious.

There are actually very few people responding with NERF CAV. There have been many on this thread that have been the opposite. You should go and re-read the entire thing.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. It keeps almost dying and then just being sparked back to life by 1 random person.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: BlueKnight on September 06, 2011, 02:01:03 pm
Horses' prices are terrible. Over 2300 for warhorse means that my small tank costs a lot and you wish it nerfed to the state in which I will be easier to kill while on the horse then on the ground. It's enough big nerf that lance angle is small, I need usually 2 hits on armoured guys to kill them, a lot of maps have funny hills and small obstacles that can block your horse while fighting and therefore you are dead.

Instead of nerfing cav we should rather focus on nerfing archery. MW Warbow/Longbow + MW Bodkin arrows means the 50-60% HP down by 1 shot ( with 6 or 7 PD ) and now I am talking about my situation. I have 70 body armour and still get killed by arrows which should deal much less dmg. here are the proves of OP archery ( Jambi killing everybody after 1-2 shots )

please notice that the last 5 kills are all in 1 minute. Whole number of Jambi kills in that round was 7. The whole number of players in each team was around 10.

YES I KNOW JAMBI IS GREAT ARCHER but c'mon archer can't just 2hit full plate monsters! It's against all the balance!

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7205/2011082500001e.jpg

and btw... If cav got nerfed, who would kill all the archers?

Ah and also mind that those 22nd guys were well equipped ( heavy Kuyak and Coat of plates ( probably loomed ) + good gloves etc. )
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on September 06, 2011, 05:44:34 pm
Guys, lets face it, this mod is balanced. Pefectly.

You got people in each class who top scoreboards. Its not a 1 way battle. 
Guys like cooties or phyrex top scoreboard as 2h
guys like tor or even noobish me top scoreboards as polearm
Look at Ru Conquista dima urban, he kicks the shit with his 1h
guys like dave or gnjus are the xbowmy old friends of doom
If you look at archers like chico,nelo or jambi - you see them at the top

Every class has people who are exceptional at what they do.
You cant whine about that and use it as an example to nerf things.

The GK get lots of kills, not because they are neccesarily the best lancers like tommy, but they use fantastic teamwork.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Peasant_Woman on September 06, 2011, 05:47:48 pm
Cavalry is fine. And that's coming from an archer. They are already either slow as shite (heavier horses) or can't turn for shite (faster horses). It's fine aslong as you know they are coming, I think they just need to make the galloping sounds louder.

This. They just need to be louder/I need to hear them when they're 5m behind me/I need to not hear random cav on the other side of the map so I can tell that enemy cav is nearby and looking for unaware players.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 06, 2011, 05:56:05 pm
Guys, lets face it, this mod is balanced. Pefectly.

You got people in each class who top scoreboards. Its not a 1 way battle. 
Guys like cooties or phyrex top scoreboard as 2h
guys like tor or even noobish me top scoreboards as polearm
Look at Ru Conquista dima urban, he kicks the shit with his 1h
guys like dave or gnjus are the xbowmy old friends of doom
If you look at archers like chico,nelo or jambi - you see them at the top

Every class has people who are exceptional at what they do.
You cant whine about that and use it as an example to nerf things.

The GK get lots of kills, not because they are neccesarily the best lancers like tommy, but they use fantastic teamwork.
I would agree with almost everything, but who are you fooling with calling yourself a noob?  :lol:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 06, 2011, 06:04:52 pm
Chase is being 1st a lot lately and he's an archer :wink:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Reinhardt on September 06, 2011, 06:05:07 pm
TBH when it's reared (or runs into a wall like derpacav do) the rider should be thrown to the ground.  Just sayin.   :wink:

And when my horse rears back, it should stomp the ground sending enemies in the general area into a second or 1/2 second stun.

Luckily, chadz is a smarter individual than to listen to these nerf threads that are only created when someone is killed by cavalry, even if it is a bullshit kill.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 06, 2011, 06:09:31 pm
chadz isn't the one who does balancing. And guys who do, listen to community feedback and then decide if it's just whining or there is something imbalanced. We'll see how they'll react.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gravoth_iii on September 06, 2011, 06:11:33 pm
Nerf horsebumping and im happy. Like make the horse loose 50% speed when ramming into someone, so they cant plow through 5 people in a row and then run away unharmed.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 06, 2011, 07:16:12 pm
Nerf horsebumping and im happy. Like make the horse loose 50% speed when ramming into someone, so they cant plow through 5 people in a row and then run away unharmed.

5 people with a charger is fine. with an arabian, after 1 bump you slow down a lot and if you accidentally do a second bump, you stop... so it's fine.

Guys, lets face it, this mod is balanced. Pefectly.

You got people in each class who top scoreboards. Its not a 1 way battle. 
Guys like cooties or phyrex top scoreboard as 2h
guys like tor or even noobish me top scoreboards as polearm
Look at Ru Conquista dima urban, he kicks the shit with his 1h
guys like dave or gnjus are the xbowmy old friends of doom
If you look at archers like chico,nelo or jambi - you see them at the top

Every class has people who are exceptional at what they do.
You cant whine about that and use it as an example to nerf things.

The GK get lots of kills, not because they are neccesarily the best lancers like tommy, but they use fantastic teamwork.


absolutely. just a little too much xbows as sidearms but the rest is fine.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on September 07, 2011, 12:51:23 am
5 people with a charger is fine. with an arabian, after 1 bump you slow down a lot and if you accidentally do a second bump, you stop... so it's fine.

absolutely. just a little too much xbows as sidearms but the rest is fine.

quote for truth , also can someone fix that stupid balance that put all cavs or ranged in the same team once and for all , i cant believe this haven't been adresed , that's the whole problem atm , players  get emotional because they get owned by the rape train (cavs) or the machine guns (range) and complain about this class and that class...

 Make a true Balancer so that the 2 teams are even and not freaking stacked like it always do and im sure thoses nerfs threads will slowly vanish...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 07, 2011, 02:47:34 am
quote for truth , also can someone fix that stupid balance that put all cavs or ranged in the same team once and for all , i cant believe this haven't been adresed , that's the whole problem atm , players  get emotional because they get owned by the rape train (cavs) or the machine guns (range) and complain about this class and that class...

 Make a true Balancer so that the 2 teams are even and not freaking stacked like it always do and im sure thoses nerfs threads will slowly vanish...

i noticed that also. i ever thought was pure unluck (or luck) to see autobalance switching almost all the ranged/cav/ in one team and almost all inf in the other. don't happen so often but when it happens...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 07, 2011, 03:01:31 am
chadz isn't the one who does balancing. And guys who do, listen to community feedback and then decide if it's just whining or there is something imbalanced. We'll see how they'll react.

yes but over a year, game/item/build balancers did a really good job. if they must start working on the game balance for every nerf thread that pops up, we'll see a cRPGupdate.zip every 3 hours. i say that even if a lot of my builds got nerfed to the ground. but sometimes i go play native and i just remember what NO BALANCE AT ALL mean.

the devs working on strategus fixes / stronghold / etc, often release a patch when the game is updated and debugged ALONG with the balancers work. and anyway the more the game gets balanced, the harder is to further improve it and the EASIER is to screw completely the balance with a just a modify.

so FEW changes, wait for the players to react, (why people reroll a build or another, how the kill stats for that particular weapon is going) and move on.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kenji on September 07, 2011, 03:09:45 am
Guys, lets face it, this mod is balanced. Pefectly.

You got people in each class who top scoreboards. Its not a 1 way battle. 
Guys like cooties or phyrex top scoreboard as 2h
guys like tor or even noobish me top scoreboards as polearm
Look at Ru Conquista dima urban, he kicks the shit with his 1h
guys like dave or gnjus are the xbowmy old friends of doom
If you look at archers like chico,nelo or jambi - you see them at the top

Every class has people who are exceptional at what they do.
You cant whine about that and use it as an example to nerf things.

The GK get lots of kills, not because they are neccesarily the best lancers like tommy, but they use fantastic teamwork.
Indeed, I cannot agree more:
(click to show/hide)
Fallen_Loki: Archer
Walt_F4: Piker
Survivor (Stone/Gear): Cav

And note that most fallen players are archers.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 07, 2011, 08:29:16 pm
Indeed, I cannot agree more:
(click to show/hide)
Fallen_Loki: Archer
Walt_F4: Piker
Survivor (Stone/Gear): Cav

And note that most fallen players are archers.

well that's a cav/archer map. post a nordtown scoreboard  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gorath on September 08, 2011, 05:19:11 am
And when my horse rears back, it should stomp the ground sending enemies in the general area into a second or 1/2 second stun.
:|
So... I bring up something logical and based off of realism and you bring up something from World of Warcraft?

For shame.   
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 08, 2011, 02:53:00 pm
:|
So... I bring up something logical and based off of realism and you bring up something from World of Warcraft?

For shame.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 08, 2011, 07:11:33 pm
Realism did I hear? Well then, horses should one shot kill when doing full speed bumps! Oh wait, game balance, damnit...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Mithus on September 08, 2011, 07:25:06 pm
Realism did I hear? Well then, horses should one shot kill when doing full speed bumps! Oh wait, game balance, damnit...

Realism? should I one hit horses if I melee them in their legs even the armored ones;
One of the reasons of heavy armored horses are so overpowered in this game, they should not get way once you are able to hit their legs; Their arrmor should protected against arrows not against melee, but seems its only one hitbox, its not like player(head/chest/legs).
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 08, 2011, 08:43:02 pm
Realism? should I one hit horses if I melee them in their legs even the armored ones;
One of the reasons of heavy armored horses are so overpowered in this game, they should not get way once you are able to hit their legs; Their arrmor should protected against arrows not against melee, but seems its only one hitbox, its not like player(head/chest/legs).

wrong. 2 hitboxes. (head/rest)

and balance>realism so a plated charger shouldn't be immune to all but bolts, pikes and jarids.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: [ptx] on September 08, 2011, 09:06:55 pm
lol
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fartface on September 08, 2011, 09:15:14 pm
i do agree with getting kills with cav is a bit easy sometimes.
but sometimes ul get lanced by an other cav in the beggining so.
balanced!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kophka on September 11, 2011, 02:47:24 pm
I hopped into battle last night, and what glorious sight met me there? Random Plains!!!! Not a roof-top in sight, nobody wasted a slot with ladders, and there were no crappy buidlings for people to scurry into and leech.

I expressed mild (pleasurable) surprise, and wondered aloud how cavalry was doing in this fight. I got mixed answers of "raping me" or "being raped". I hopped on my powerful steed, took my javelins, mace, and shield to hand, and rode into battle with my friends. What I saw shocked me!

I saw groups of infantry following their archers to their hill. I saw archers focusing on clusters of targets that sprouted arrows like a bird sprouts his winter plumage. I saw groups of polearm users setting up where they could protect their ranged from any incursion. I saw players with shields sticking together and advancing with support from their ranged and cavalry, while 2-handers and polearmers followed closely, waiting to strike the moment the enemy was close enough. I saw cavalry circling the mass of enemy fighters, distracting the enemy and harassing any foolish enough to separate from their main troop.

What I didn't see : I didn't see archers survive when they separated from their troops. I didn't see cavalry survive when they stood still long enough for ranged to draw a bead. And I didn't see cavalry charging in and steamrolling anyone. Cavalry that mixed it up in the main mass either got dehorsed, or shot from their steed with ease.

It was a great time for everyone I think (though there may have been some disgruntled peasants, they generally died well before I engaged in close combat), and showed that when a team pulls together, there isn't a single OP factor in this game. Each troop type shines in it's situation. Cavalry did their best work when they could distract/separate, then attack. Infantry did theirs when they could stick together for protection. Ranged did theirs when they were supported by their team. Even with no rooftops, ranged got huge amounts of kills, but the "Range is OP" whining stopped for that battle.

TL:DR : Even in random plains maps, cav isn't OP, it's just what you make it.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: kongxinga on September 12, 2011, 05:16:22 pm
I hopped into battle last night, and what glorious sight met me there? Random Plains!!!! Not a roof-top in sight, nobody wasted a slot with ladders, and there were no crappy buidlings for people to scurry into and leech.

I expressed mild (pleasurable) surprise, and wondered aloud how cavalry was doing in this fight. I got mixed answers of "raping me" or "being raped". I hopped on my powerful steed, took my javelins, mace, and shield to hand, and rode into battle with my friends. What I saw shocked me!

I saw groups of infantry following their archers to their hill. I saw archers focusing on clusters of targets that sprouted arrows like a bird sprouts his winter plumage. I saw groups of polearm users setting up where they could protect their ranged from any incursion. I saw players with shields sticking together and advancing with support from their ranged and cavalry, while 2-handers and polearmers followed closely, waiting to strike the moment the enemy was close enough. I saw cavalry circling the mass of enemy fighters, distracting the enemy and harassing any foolish enough to separate from their main troop.

What I didn't see : I didn't see archers survive when they separated from their troops. I didn't see cavalry survive when they stood still long enough for ranged to draw a bead. And I didn't see cavalry charging in and steamrolling anyone. Cavalry that mixed it up in the main mass either got dehorsed, or shot from their steed with ease.

It was a great time for everyone I think (though there may have been some disgruntled peasants, they generally died well before I engaged in close combat), and showed that when a team pulls together, there isn't a single OP factor in this game. Each troop type shines in it's situation. Cavalry did their best work when they could distract/separate, then attack. Infantry did theirs when they could stick together for protection. Ranged did theirs when they were supported by their team. Even with no rooftops, ranged got huge amounts of kills, but the "Range is OP" whining stopped for that battle.

TL:DR : Even in random plains maps, cav isn't OP, it's just what you make it.


Quoted and +1 for truth. I wish i was there. Don't you love how tactics start appearing in random plains and steppes? We need more of those maps.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 13, 2011, 08:38:34 pm
Horses need to be removed!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 13, 2011, 08:42:44 pm
Horses need to be removed!

Along with bows throwing crossbows shields and armour!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 13, 2011, 08:51:17 pm
Horses need to be removed!

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

also catholics.














trollin'
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Casimir on September 13, 2011, 10:09:24 pm
EU1 today = cav mayhem

although on field by river the team with more cav lost overall so i wouldn't say it was that bad
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Dezilagel on September 13, 2011, 10:26:26 pm
EU1 today = cav mayhem

although on field by river the team with more cav lost overall so i wouldn't say it was that bad

Well, the cavteam raped for like 3-4 rounds until the entire enemy team started camping ruins...

Problem with cav is not that they're "op", it's that

1. (sadly) the counter to them is the most boring thing this game offers - archercamp.

2. when you reach "critical mass" with cav, they become so powerful on the open field that they strongly promote this playstyle.

Two main problems here imo:

Cav: The unlimited couch. Ever seen the "sweeping couch" at "low" speed with an arabian? Lances should be breakable imo, also return the 100 degree thrust, reduce horse maneuver and buff horse charge.

Ranged: Too powerful when allowed to camp, dunno how to fix tho  :? Also kiting archers are bs.








Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 13, 2011, 10:32:27 pm
Yeah,

I was on the team that got raped by cav the first 4 rounds, until i commanded them run to ruins without stopping, and staying there. Besides we had some leet cav on our own team that reduced the incoming cav numbers and raped the infantry of the other team.

We won in the end but it took massive teamwork. Without someone taking and commanding we would have lost for sure.

If there is one argument that stands for nerfing cav, it is that there are now so many of them. It completely dominates every map, as players leave infantry roles to go cav themselves, and others going ranged and roofcamping.

A cav nerf, together with a removal of ladders in battle should make gameplay much better. (Although removal of ladders will be an indirect buff to cav, as they have more light armored and static targets to prey on)

I'd say nerf cav twice:

1. For reducing the numbers of cav
2. For giving them more easy targets
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Reinhardt on September 13, 2011, 10:44:32 pm
:|
So... I bring up something logical and based off of realism and you bring up something from World of Warcraft?

For shame.

Didn't even know that was in that stupid game. Regardless, it was sarcasm.

Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Gravoth_iii on September 13, 2011, 11:04:57 pm
I would just like to see bumping get nerfed.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Mtemtko on September 13, 2011, 11:08:12 pm
I would just like to see bumping get nerfed.

Were you here when heavy horses used to do around 30-50% to someone in heavy armor?  :| October 2010 ish.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 13, 2011, 11:12:16 pm
Cav is an EU problem
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 13, 2011, 11:35:29 pm
Along with bows throwing crossbows shields and armour!

We'll get to that. First cav, horse removal pronto!

Also name the mod C-RPG: Infantry heaven :)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lizard_man on September 13, 2011, 11:57:48 pm
Yeah,

I was on the team that got raped by cav the first 4 rounds, until i commanded them run to ruins without stopping, and staying there. Besides we had some leet cav on our own team that reduced the incoming cav numbers and raped the infantry of the other team.

We won in the end but it took massive teamwork. Without someone taking and commanding we would have lost for sure.

If there is one argument that stands for nerfing cav, it is that there are now so many of them. It completely dominates every map, as players leave infantry roles to go cav themselves, and others going ranged and roofcamping.

A cav nerf, together with a removal of ladders in battle should make gameplay much better. (Although removal of ladders will be an indirect buff to cav, as they have more light armored and static targets to prey on)

I'd say nerf cav twice:

1. For reducing the numbers of cav
2. For giving them more easy targets

so your argument for nerfing cavalry is that there are simply too many of them, right... :|
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: justme on September 14, 2011, 12:29:25 am
i think that riding skill gives too much bonus.. anyone knows how much?
cavs with riding skill 6 and more, are too fast... inf dont have time to turn around and thrust
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 14, 2011, 12:44:08 am
one of them yeah.

We've done it with archers before many times.
It boils down to how many cav we wish to have. Do you want 100% of players to be cav? 30% 50%?

From the infantrymans perspective (and ranged too) there is a threshold somewhere where the amount of cav becomes unmanagable. It increases the random factor in the game, where you will get raped without chance to hit back.

You can already see some trends in the game. A huge part of players are either ranged (Roofcampers) or cav themselves. If this is allowed to continue we will have cav and roofcampers left. Pikers will get overwhelmed by cav and roofcampers will shoot them, 1h will be helpless, 2h will only be a soft counter to cav, but helpless against mass cav..

Haven't you noticed it?

I'd say that cav and roofcamper player populations have exploded simultaneously. 
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 14, 2011, 12:46:50 am
pretty sure its only in EU, rooftop campers are easy to deal with( hide until MOTF)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 14, 2011, 01:50:38 am
one of them yeah.

We've done it with archers before many times.
It boils down to how many cav we wish to have. Do you want 100% of players to be cav? 30% 50%?

From the infantrymans perspective (and ranged too) there is a threshold somewhere where the amount of cav becomes unmanagable. It increases the random factor in the game, where you will get raped without chance to hit back.

You can already see some trends in the game. A huge part of players are either ranged (Roofcampers) or cav themselves. If this is allowed to continue we will have cav and roofcampers left. Pikers will get overwhelmed by cav and roofcampers will shoot them, 1h will be helpless, 2h will only be a soft counter to cav, but helpless against mass cav..

Haven't you noticed it?

I'd say that cav and roofcamper player populations have exploded simultaneously.

Wtf are you talking about? The vast majority of players are still infantry. Not archers. Not cav.

I was on field by the river tonight and there were 100 people playing. On one side there was about 10 cav, on the other there were about 4 and I was on the team that had 4 so I know what it's like to fight against them. That's when 100 people were on so only 14% of the players. How can that be to many? That's a tiny portion of one team, let alone split between two.

Maybe the reason cav is supposedly becoming more common is because infantry keeps coming to these dumb threads and moaning about it. So more people are realising they can take advantage of idiotic infantry who don't have a clue what they are doing. But in all reality, I've not noticed them becoming more common. I've noticed on some nights there are more than usual. But there are also nights where me and couple of the GK guys are the only cav in the server. It varies massively and obviously you are going to get times when there is a lot more cav as well as the opposite. It's just the instant you see more in one evening you come on and moan about it.

You sound like the end of the world is coming. It's really not that bad and there's some massive exaggerating going on here by some very butthurt infantry. If you want to fight as inf with little cav interruption, then you can play siege for that.

reduce horse maneuver and buff horse charge.

Anyway. Nerfing horses is not the answer if you think there needs to be one. That would not only nerf lancers, but nerf every type of cav out there. And the majority of issues people have with cav is with lancers. There's a reason this nerf has been rejected in the past.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lizard_man on September 14, 2011, 02:45:53 am
well what about strategus where there isn't that much cavalry, the fact that strategus uses alot of infantry, well this calls for a nerf, why, there's too many of them, fucking dumb, this is what people sound like, there's a shitload of infantry, nerf them, the fact i can't charge a piker with my horse because i'll be killed, nerf them, the fact an arrow can kill my horse, nerf them, the fact a horse can suprise and kill me from the rear, nerf them, i do perfectly well on foot, if you're having problems then it's your problem, i see 2 handers running around chopping everything to pieces, archers shooting the shit out of everyone, it's just as muffin said in his post, things are pretty balanced as they are...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 14, 2011, 03:00:52 am
I can't believe some cav players come here and QQ.

It's not like theres something wrong with their score. Lizard man is a good player, 1h cav mostly, and he tops the charts because the 1h cavalry sword he's using gets a massive dmg bonus because of speed. (And he has learned to headslash players, something which is very easy as cav. It's a matter of keeping your view in the right angle. No other players gets such 1shotting power with a 5-6 point investment.

Ofc 1h shield cav is not the biggest problem, it's lance cav getting that bonus at superior range to shielders, most polearms, and most 2h swords. (OK most 2h players use long weapons with a potential to MAYBE kill the horse or the rider, but the cav can choose not to engage an aware 2h. And the initiative is entirely the cav.)

OK, you can beat cav by teamwork, and it's even better if you have terrain features like buildings. BUT,

If infantry needs teamwork to beat cav, its only fair that cav needs teamwork to beat infantry, something that is unheard of.

Why do we have so few planned and well executed cavalry charges in cRPG? (I think I never saw one)

- Because they don't need to do it to get kills or help their team.

I want them to have to rely on teamwork to be powerful. Then perhaps we could get rid of this washing machine of madness, that most often translates to random deaths for the infantry player.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lizard_man on September 14, 2011, 03:39:40 am
well even i have problems with lancers, but i've learned to deal with them, i can beat alot of lancers with my short (in comparison) weapon, and it's pretty much the same on foot, maneuver, attack, even if i can't take a horseman down i can easily defend myself, it's not exactly hard, and cavalry do use teamwork, quite a bit, group up, stick together, attack, simple, but effective, whats so hard for infantry that they can't group up and defend each other, which infact they do sometimes, and cavalry gets ripped to pieces, i was playing earlier today and towards the end of the round it ended up with around 6 horsemen and 6 footmen, all the footmen had spears, polearms or 2 handed weapons, the cavalry were rendered useless, how can you call cavalry op in such a scenario, maybe you should try playing cavalry yourself, upkeep sucks, which in turn makes you have to use lower tier equipment and horses, which are terrible, it's not as easy as you might think, see if you can rack up as many kills as i can on a map, the fact i rack up so many kills is because i've been playing a 1 handed horseman since mount and blade itself was in its beta stage...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 14, 2011, 03:46:46 am
Cavalry do need teamwork to beat well prepared infantry, lancers dont need teamwork to beat a katana wielder, katana is not designed to combat cav... at all. This is just one example of many where people believe there should be an even fight between every class, so as soon as a length 82 axe is beaten by a length 190 lance its suddenly a shock and something is not working. Simply put, if you dont like cav then adapt your class to be better suited vs cav or adapt your tactics. I'm sick and tired of this coming up, as are most people it would seem ¬¬
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: San on September 14, 2011, 03:58:11 am
Why is it okay for cav to be able to beat so many builds without much competition, though?
Would any of you cav players be alright if more weapons were able to deal with cavalry more efficiently?


Cav pretty much forces me to equip a 1wpf polearm at all times, though.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kophka on September 14, 2011, 03:58:36 am
Why do we have so few planned and well executed cavalry charges in cRPG? (I think I never saw one)

I also wish these would happen. It probably doesn't happen because horses are extremely fragile, and the riders are prostrate on the ground forever when the horse dies.

Lets say I have 5 good cavalry. Let's give them Warhorses (reasonable, right?), good armor (~40ish?), regular lances, shields, and good cavalry 1 handers (which are cut swords, right?)

We are going to do a cavalry charge into an aware body of enemies, lets say... 10 infantry, supported by 5 archers/xbow men. Is it reasonable to assume that at least 1/2 the infantry have pikes/longspears/some other longish (130+) polearm?

Here's what happens in my experience, in such a scenario :
(click to show/hide)

Now lets try it with 10 cavalry :

(click to show/hide)

I can try it with 15 cavalry, but I'm sure it wouldn't be that much different.

Conclusion :  Cavalry just can't charge headlong, the horses are the weak point in the equation.

I may be wrong here, but in my experience as cavalry, polearm infantry, archer, thrower, 1 hand shield, and 2 hand axeman (no huge swords, yet), this is about how it would go. If you think it would go otherwise, please share, I'd be interested to read it.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Smoothrich on September 14, 2011, 04:10:22 am
If theres lots of cav bring lots of pikes/longspears and crossbows, christ

This is seriously all you do to stomp a cav heavy team
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Memento_Mori on September 14, 2011, 04:18:30 am
Cav is an EU problem

lol


If theres lots of cav bring lots of pikes/longspears and crossbows/ranged, christ

This is seriously all you do to stomp a cav heavy team

Pure genius.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 14, 2011, 04:21:00 am
Most weapons can beat cav tbh :/

-Ranged (bows, xbows and throwing) brings horses down pretty damn fast if they just pay them some attention.
-Many 2h's lol stab will outreach a heavy lance head on if aiming for the horses head.
-Polearms are the melee anti cav.

so that leaves us with short 2h's / polearmers, 1h's and unaware ranged that are weak to cav. Not to mention that with down block and the current lance angle, avoiding lances is easier than ever.

So to conclude I'd say the vast majority of weapons out there are capable of dealing with cav offensively, and defensively all classes with a bit of awareness should be able to avoid harm.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Torp on September 14, 2011, 04:23:08 am
Cav isn't that hard to take out... when i get dismount i often change to my 1h and hope an enemy cav sees me as an 'easy kill' so i can get to kill him... works 4/5 times, and when it doesnt, it's because im one of the good players, and since i recognize them, ill just move to the main inf group when they spot me.

if i get charged by several cav i will ofc die, just like if i was attacked by several inf.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 14, 2011, 04:37:04 am
Dunno the source of this, but someone in native did a test, 10 cav vs 10 pikemen.

Cav won every time.

We should retest this in cRPG.

And mind you, its not in the 1vs1 situation cav is powerful, you know that very well my fellow backstabbers. Cav is powerful because of the natural chaos of a battlefield, by being able to pick, avoid, outrun your targets at will, by being able to bump players to help teammates, by having 1shotting abilities. Multiple cav being able to bring chaos to an infantry formation. The washing machine of circling cav.

Anyway.. It's retarded to discuss this with GK, hardly a neutral clan..

I'm just saying that the infantrymans experience is not very good atm, and that the simplest proof of cav being OP is the constant top scores they rank up on EU1 all day long.

Roofcampers and cav server. No wonder why most people started to play the retarded siege mode :)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lizard_man on September 14, 2011, 04:47:14 am
topping the scoreboard doesn't make something op... :|
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Smoothrich on September 14, 2011, 05:05:04 am
Dunno the source of this, but someone in native did a test, 10 cav vs 10 pikemen.

Cav won every time.

We should retest this in cRPG.

And mind you, its not in the 1vs1 situation cav is powerful, you know that very well my fellow backstabbers. Cav is powerful because of the natural chaos of a battlefield, by being able to pick, avoid, outrun your targets at will, by being able to bump players to help teammates, by having 1shotting abilities. Multiple cav being able to bring chaos to an infantry formation. The washing machine of circling cav.

Anyway.. It's retarded to discuss this with GK, hardly a neutral clan..

I'm just saying that the infantrymans experience is not very good atm, and that the simplest proof of cav being OP is the constant top scores they rank up on EU1 all day long.

Roofcampers and cav server. No wonder why most people started to play the retarded siege mode :)

You're bad, we get it.

Aren't you a dedicated katana man or something?  Awful class, but with high athletics you should be able to juke cav and slash away at the horse and rider, ninja players do this all the time successfully to me on NA.  If anything the STR builds on NA are at a bigger disadvantage then the EU backpedalers, because they aren't fast enough to avoid couches.  But seriously, 10 cav vs 10 pikes, cav wins?  lol. 
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 14, 2011, 05:13:14 am
pretty sure no one uses pike in native
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Reinhardt on September 14, 2011, 05:14:28 am
So, to reduce the number of cav, you propose severe nerfs? Slight nerfs scare off the bulk, usually.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kophka on September 14, 2011, 05:22:24 am
Dunno the source of this, but someone in native did a test, 10 cav vs 10 pikemen.

Cav won every time.

We should retest this in cRPG.

I would love to see this, myself, and not just cav vs foot people.

I'd love to see it for 1 handers vs 2 handers, roof archers vs foot people, polearms vs 2 handers.

It would have to be controlled to remove bias, and you'd have to find people willing to fight to win to represent their class, instead of losing on purpose to avoid a nerf. But if you pulled it off, you'd have a pretty powerful argument to support your position, whichever and whatever it is.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Smoothrich on September 14, 2011, 07:50:19 am
No matter how much they nerf cav (they nerf em every patch) the same people will die to cav the same way every time:  being caught unaware and lanced in the back.  It really isn't a matter of stats and balance, its just the style of the class and up to individual skill to adapt to a major component of a game called Mount and Blade for a reason.  Or Mountain Blade if you will.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Xant on September 14, 2011, 08:30:32 am
It would have to be controlled to remove bias, and you'd have to find people willing to fight to win to represent their class, instead of losing on purpose to avoid a nerf. But if you pulled it off, you'd have a pretty powerful argument to support your position, whichever and whatever it is.

No... not... really. Not at all. It depends /way/ too much on invidual player skill and their ability to work in a team. Doesn't really say shit about class balance.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 14, 2011, 10:17:42 am
this was tested in a static frontal charge afaik, cba to dig it up atm, someone else might have the link?

Also, I don't propose severe nerfs. Never did and never will. (Could be a -1 maneuver nerf for all i care)

It's just a matter of adjusting it making things right.

What I'm saying is that removing ladders from battle is an indirect buff to cav, and since cav is already doing pretty well, an eventual nerf would have to take the (IF SO) upcoming indirect buff into account.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tzar on September 14, 2011, 10:24:35 am
Best and most fair nerf would be to fix the buggy sound engine that makes sure cav can ride around careless and backstab on a dime thx to players being unable to hear em.

Touche it cant be done.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 14, 2011, 10:34:44 am
Dunno the source of this, but someone in native did a test, 10 cav vs 10 pikemen.

Cav won every time.

We should retest this in cRPG.

And mind you, its not in the 1vs1 situation cav is powerful, you know that very well my fellow backstabbers. Cav is powerful because of the natural chaos of a battlefield, by being able to pick, avoid, outrun your targets at will, by being able to bump players to help teammates, by having 1shotting abilities. Multiple cav being able to bring chaos to an infantry formation. The washing machine of circling cav.

Anyway.. It's retarded to discuss this with GK, hardly a neutral clan..

I'm just saying that the infantrymans experience is not very good atm, and that the simplest proof of cav being OP is the constant top scores they rank up on EU1 all day long.

Roofcampers and cav server. No wonder why most people started to play the retarded siege mode :)

You're saying it's retarded to discuss this with GK...

YOU'RE A NINJA

Possibly the worst ever build for dealing with cav

The 10 vs 10 situation is dumb. You can see in strat how effective mixed oraganised infantry is at dealing with cav. Cavalry is far less powerful in strat. You don't need to do any other testing, if you've played in strat you'll know this.


Why do we have so few planned and well executed cavalry charges in cRPG? (I think I never saw one)

- Because they don't need to do it to get kills or help their team.

I want them to have to rely on teamwork to be powerful. Then perhaps we could get rid of this washing machine of madness, that most often translates to random deaths for the infantry player.

The very fact you've said this shows you've never really played as cav. GK has done some cavalry charges in the past, and from my experience unless you're wearing the very heaviest armour and heaviest horses, you'll get instantly stopped by a polearm and killed. If you want more of those you have to remove the majority of weapons ability to stop horses. Otherwise it's more like a suicide charge. It's a fun thing to do, but it requires some organisation and really isn't worth the risk because most inf will see you coming a mile off regardless of where you form up.

That and we have to many village maps for it.

Many cav do work together. 2 HA will automatically circle on opposite side of a shielder. An HA will shoot and bump the enemy and the lancer will swoop in and lance him on the ground. 2 lancers will attack from opposite sides to confuse an enemy.

You see plenty of team work from cav. But maybe you're just spending too much time complaining about them on the forums to notice.

this was tested in a static frontal charge afaik, cba to dig it up atm, someone else might have the link?

That was a native test. There is actually quite a big difference between native and crpg cav. Also the one you are talking about was the 50 vs 50 one I believe. And whilst the cav won, there were hardly any of them left. It was also a map that was very very favourable to cav. No hills. Flat plains. There are very few of those in rotation on EU1.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: justme on September 14, 2011, 10:41:53 am
i really dont understand how shield can protect 90 %of horse?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 14, 2011, 10:43:25 am
i really dont understand how shield can protect 90 %of horse?

It really really doesn't. At least not from arrows. Whilst it protects the immediate area around the rider, the neck up on the horse are fine and most of the rear is fine. It's just the immediate area around the legs of the rider that is protected.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: v/onMega on September 14, 2011, 11:34:37 am
I suggest everybody in these useless threads to take a break from this game.

Furthermore I suggest everybody to try the class he is suggesting things about....

And I suggest to take a look at the class, more specific, the build you play and then rethink if your possibilites to counter certain situations/setups on the battlefield have changed to the worse ....

I can guarantee, most whine is caused by inferior playerabilities / being blind to facts due to a general overplayed own class.



P.S: if u want something unfair, hardcore....try Red Orchestra 2...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 14, 2011, 12:22:00 pm
Dunno the source of this, but someone in native did a test, 10 cav vs 10 pikemen.

Cav won every time.
 

I watched that test; organized pike formation vs organized cav charge it wasnt 10v10 tho, twas a bit more. Something like 30v30. And yea it is true that cav won every time.

Im curious on what theboutcome would be in crpg
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: justme on September 14, 2011, 12:34:48 pm
i am part time cavman, so i know what im talking..
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 05:06:31 pm
Seems like devs answered my praises :D
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 16, 2011, 05:30:21 pm
And how many 'favours' did you give them for them answer prayers :P
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 16, 2011, 06:22:31 pm
Seems like devs answered my praises :D

i salute you, didnt thought you will pull it off

if they will keep cav nerfed to the ground, you can link my quitting to your forum efforts Leshma
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 07:00:37 pm
And how many 'favours' did you give them for them answer prayers :P

I didn't pray, just kept saying how awesome they are, how much of man Paul is, how chadz is beatiful inside, how I always get hard-on whenever I think of cmp irl (she's a chick right?)

i salute you, didnt thought you will pull it off

if they will keep cav nerfed to the ground, you can link my quitting to your forum efforts Leshma

It's not end of the world, Chagan. You and I both know that they will revert those changes or make them less obvious :wink:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Siiem on September 16, 2011, 07:57:23 pm
i salute you, didnt thought you will pull it off

if they will keep cav nerfed to the ground, you can link my quitting to your forum efforts Leshma

So, if you can't stay overpowered you quit, makes sense.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 08:05:05 pm
So, if you can't stay overpowered you quit, makes sense.

I bet cavarly is gonna be buffed more then they were before this nerf cause certain people don't feel the joy of being a cav...
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 16, 2011, 08:10:03 pm
So, if you can't stay overpowered you quit, makes sense.

when i dont find fun in game i dont play it, i wont switch to some op 2h mode with set of x3 armor to improve my ego, as i dont find fun in infantry play

its simple if horses are slow they arent fun, still cav will be able to topscore as people still will not look around, but take the fun element from this build and well whats the point of playing ? i was already considering it after the reduced angle of hit nerf, as it screwed up the cav vs cav fights for me... adding to this slow ass horses that imitate the frankish knights ? well ill pass on this one if it happens

anyway ill check back in couple of days and see how it looks

Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 08:22:35 pm
sigh cav is being nerfed to the ground, everyone should just go a man at arms build
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: BlackMilk on September 16, 2011, 08:26:14 pm
when i dont find fun in game i dont play it, i wont switch to some op 2h mode with set of x3 armor to improve my ego, as i dont find fun in infantry play

its simple if horses are slow they arent fun, still cav will be able to topscore as people still will not look around, but take the fun element from this build and well whats the point of playing ? i was already considering it after the reduced angle of hit nerf, as it screwed up the cav vs cav fights for me... adding to this slow ass horses that imitate the frankish knights ? well ill pass on this one if it happens

anyway ill check back in couple of days and see how it looks
op 2h mode? dude wtf are you talking about?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 08:27:41 pm
op 2h mode? dude wtf are you talking about?

2h is balanced, but as it is being a 2h is easier than cav.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Siiem on September 16, 2011, 10:01:09 pm
when i dont find fun in game i dont play it, i wont switch to some op 2h mode with set of x3 armor to improve my ego, as i dont find fun in infantry play

its simple if horses are slow they arent fun, still cav will be able to topscore as people still will not look around, but take the fun element from this build and well whats the point of playing ? i was already considering it after the reduced angle of hit nerf, as it screwed up the cav vs cav fights for me... adding to this slow ass horses that imitate the frankish knights ? well ill pass on this one if it happens

It's not fun to be lanced in the back 1 hit killed because the cav sound in this game is fucked up, so I don't feel sorry for you at all.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Kophka on September 16, 2011, 10:22:29 pm
It's not fun to be lanced in the back 1 hit killed because the cav sound in this game is fucked up, so I don't feel sorry for you at all.

Funny how no one has fixed that bug. So you're saying that cavalry shouldn't be cavalry, but instead be infantry mounted on electric wheelchairs? Because you can't hear hooves? How does that address your issue?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Anti on September 16, 2011, 10:23:21 pm
Wat? picking off unaware infantry is harder than fighting in group melee fights while worrying whether or not a cav is going to lance you in the ass?







wat?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 10:27:36 pm
Wat? picking off unaware infantry is harder than fighting in group melee fights while worrying whether or not a cav is going to lance you in the ass?







wat?

so cav is only for picking off nubs?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 16, 2011, 10:39:54 pm
It's not fun to be lanced in the back 1 hit killed because the cav sound in this game is fucked up, so I don't feel sorry for you at all.

tell me, but be honest, do you pass on occasion to hit other inf guy in in the back during melee group fight ? or do you take advantage of this situation and slice him in the back ?

so whats the difference between backstabbing cav and inf doing the same thing on foot ? all players take advantage of people that dont see them, cav have just more occasion than do so than others

Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Siiem on September 16, 2011, 10:43:53 pm
tell me, but be honest, do you pass on occasion to hit other inf guy in in the back during melee group fight ? or do you take advantage of this situation and slice him in the back ?

so whats the difference between backstabbing cav and inf doing the same thing on foot ? all players take advantage of people that dont see them, cav have just more occasion than do so than others

Lol, you're like Joxer, completely retarded, I'm done here.

If you can't see the difference from taking advantage of a glitchy engine that let cav run around soundless then have fun.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 10:46:09 pm
Lol, you're like Joxer, completely retarded, I'm done here.

If you can't see the difference from taking advantage of a glitchy engine that let cav run around soundless then have fun.

ban cav
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Anti on September 16, 2011, 10:51:35 pm
so cav is only for picking off nubs?

It sounds to me like you want cav to have the ability to pick of infantry regardless of their skills/weaponry/build. And I'm telling you that is not balanced nor how cav has EVER worked in this game.

Cav has ALWAYS been the *gank* class. Its weird how you people don't seem realize this. Infantry will ALWAYS be the backbone of the army. Cav and to a lesser extent archers are just support.

Look at any given *good* cavalry player. Do you ever see them directly charging inf if they aren't rocking a plated charger?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 10:55:07 pm
Lol, you're like Joxer, completely retarded, I'm done here.

If you can't see the difference from taking advantage of a glitchy engine that let cav run around soundless then have fun.

So no need to be so sore about it. If it's a glitchy engine then nothing can be done. Accept it, move on. Rather than try and ruin someone elses class because you get so worked up over being killed in a game.

I have no issues with being lanced ect as my 2h. I see it as fair.

Some inf just won't be happy until all archers and cav are useless and gone.

Edit:

What inf don't seem to understand is that no matter how much you nerf cav, they will always lance you in the back ect. It's the nature of the class. There will always be cav to do it unless you nerf them so hard into the ground that no one plays them any more.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 10:58:08 pm
It sounds to me like you want cav to have the ability to pick of infantry regardless of their skills/weaponry/build. And I'm telling you that is not balanced nor how cav has EVER worked in this game.

Cav has ALWAYS been the *gank* class. Its weird how you people don't seem realize this. Infantry will ALWAYS be the backbone of the army. Cav and to a lesser extent archers are just support.

Look at any given *good* cavalry player. Do you ever see them directly charging inf if they aren't rocking a plated charger?

infantry is a gank class, cav is suppose to be the one that attacks the flanks and rear. As of right now, this is very hard against aware enemies because of the instant turnabout lolstab of 2hers and long polearms. Yes cav's role is to pick off people that stray from the main battle group, but if thats their sole role than cav is tactically useless when confronting with an organized enemy. IMO, cav should be used to clearing out archers from the battlefield and enveloping the enemy infantry after the 2 main body engages.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Anti on September 16, 2011, 11:12:25 pm
....Dude did you read what you just wrote?

Everything in that post supports what I just said. Cavalry is a GANK class. Unless you somehow think attacking someone who is unware or from the flank directly engaging them.

Cav is support, period. The phrase is "Call in the cavalry" for a reason.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 11:17:29 pm
....Dude did you read what you just wrote?

Everything in that post supports what I just said. Cavalry is a GANK class. Unless you somehow think attacking someone who is unware or from the flank directly engaging them.

Cav is support, period. The phrase is "Call in the cavalry" for a reason.

my meaning of gank is "get a lot of people together and attack the other smaller number of people". Infantry is more like this, while cav is about surprise and ambushes (solo mostly).

if infantry was more about line fighting rather than who has the most damage dealing weapons, then i can say that infantry is not a gank class. However, this is not the case. Infantry kills so fast that by the time cav enters the game, they get roflstompped by the greater number of victorious infantry.

Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Thomek on September 16, 2011, 11:21:29 pm
better version:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: The_Angle on September 16, 2011, 11:23:54 pm
I hopped into battle last night, and what glorious sight met me there? Random Plains!!!! Not a roof-top in sight, nobody wasted a slot with ladders, and there were no crappy buidlings for people to scurry into and leech.

I expressed mild (pleasurable) surprise, and wondered aloud how cavalry was doing in this fight. I got mixed answers of "raping me" or "being raped". I hopped on my powerful steed, took my javelins, mace, and shield to hand, and rode into battle with my friends. What I saw shocked me!

I saw groups of infantry following their archers to their hill. I saw archers focusing on clusters of targets that sprouted arrows like a bird sprouts his winter plumage. I saw groups of polearm users setting up where they could protect their ranged from any incursion. I saw players with shields sticking together and advancing with support from their ranged and cavalry, while 2-handers and polearmers followed closely, waiting to strike the moment the enemy was close enough. I saw cavalry circling the mass of enemy fighters, distracting the enemy and harassing any foolish enough to separate from their main troop.

What I didn't see : I didn't see archers survive when they separated from their troops. I didn't see cavalry survive when they stood still long enough for ranged to draw a bead. And I didn't see cavalry charging in and steamrolling anyone. Cavalry that mixed it up in the main mass either got dehorsed, or shot from their steed with ease.

It was a great time for everyone I think (though there may have been some disgruntled peasants, they generally died well before I engaged in close combat), and showed that when a team pulls together, there isn't a single OP factor in this game. Each troop type shines in it's situation. Cavalry did their best work when they could distract/separate, then attack. Infantry did theirs when they could stick together for protection. Ranged did theirs when they were supported by their team. Even with no rooftops, ranged got huge amounts of kills, but the "Range is OP" whining stopped for that battle.

TL:DR : Even in random plains maps, cav isn't OP, it's just what you make it.

Needs a shout out, because people are dumb. So many people want to be Rambos, gtfo Rambos
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 11:26:17 pm
Needs a shout out, because people are dumb. So many people want to be Rambos, gtfo Rambos

I think some people forget that this is not singleplayer, and you are fighting other people.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: The_Angle on September 16, 2011, 11:29:04 pm
I think some people forget that this is not singleplayer, and you are fighting other people.

Explain.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 17, 2011, 12:06:49 am
Needs a shout out, because people are dumb. So many people want to be Rambos, gtfo Rambos

So you suck at ramboing and want us to suffer :(
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 17, 2011, 01:50:30 am
So you suck at ramboing

Hypocrite : P
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 17, 2011, 02:17:55 am
So did they finaly nerf cav? havent been playing for a week now and that chagan seems butthurt, were there any changes?
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: The_Angle on September 18, 2011, 12:54:39 am
I don't Rambo - Therefore I cannot suck at Ramboing.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Siiem on September 18, 2011, 10:23:50 pm
I don't Rambo - Therefore I cannot suck at Ramboing.

No, you just suck.
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Aldric on September 19, 2011, 09:36:30 pm
1 word. Bumping bug on the last patch is clearly an unneeded nerfs. Hopefully it's just a bug (since it's not on the changelog )
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 19, 2011, 09:38:17 pm
Well, bumping makes it hard for most cav (since many cavs are total noobs) but it has a good side. It teaches you to bump less which means you'll avoid bumping your teammates while they are fighting the enemy. Let it stay for awhile, just for the educational purpose :wink:
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 22, 2011, 05:53:02 pm
Well, bumping makes it hard for most cav (since many cavs are total noobs) but it has a good side. It teaches you to bump less which means you'll avoid bumping your teammates while they are fighting the enemy. Let it stay for awhile, just for the educational purpose :wink:

no. cav just teambump you in a brawl, you get killd, they say "sorry" and they're clean. why bother to learn riding? you just need to say "sorry".
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Wookimonsta on September 23, 2011, 10:17:29 am
no. inf just teamhit you in a brawl, you get killd, they say "sorry" and they're clean. why bother to learn control? you just need to say "sorry".
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: BlackMilk on September 23, 2011, 12:46:52 pm
no. inf just teamhit you in a brawl, you get killd, they say "sorry" and they're clean. why bother to learn control? you just need to say "sorry".
biased bs
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 23, 2011, 12:53:51 pm
Want a non biased opinion on crpg? :P you need to find a player who has only ever played this game using his fists ;)
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Wookimonsta on September 23, 2011, 02:59:27 pm
biased bs
WOW REALLY? YOU FIGURED THAT OUT? YOU ARE THE SMARTEST MAN IN ALL OF THE CRPGS EVER!
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Rebelyell on September 23, 2011, 03:39:24 pm
i played as a 2h(some like 9 gens) pole polearms cav xboman ha thrower ect

cav isn't op horses are expensive dif if high and pikmeen renegers and others can easily kill you if you are not focus

atm polearms have big advantage coz they easlly canplay as a footman and cav on the same time 2h cav is a weaker form of 1h cav.

yes i am cav atm
Title: Re: Cavalry is clearly way overpowered
Post by: Leshma on September 23, 2011, 03:54:33 pm
WOW REALLY? YOU FIGURED THAT OUT? YOU ARE THE SMARTEST MAN IN ALL OF THE CRPGS EVER!

YOU SUCK!