In native you cant survive without a shield.
I have a counter suggestion for you, coming from a player with a shielder as their main character:
Learn to play. Get some skill.
Michael you are like legend to me.
I'm on a different side of the world,
yet stories of your epic-fails reach my ears. The stories I hear about your complete incompetence ring through the North American servers. Despite the distance between us, you have blessed my life by providing the proverbial butt to many a c-rpg jokes. Thank you for confirming that these jokes are in fact based on reality with quality lawl posts like these.
...I am intelligent... You are some fat ugly lazy virgin loser that talks about "skill" in a silly mod to a plain videogame... Even a stupid American should know its always better to trust his own eyes than believing some jealous suckers.
but I have only once in a while a map where I am on top of the scoreboard with 1h shield.
Strange, i am on the top with my 1h+shield often.
I am on top of the scoreboard all the time with desert horse, light lance and gambeson, that I am on top of the scoreboard all the time with Great Axe, Nodachi or flamberge,
Balton 3.0
To the clue-less - Michael is easily one of the constantly worst players to roam cRPG. He has made ingenious threads like this since the start of it. Instead of simply acknowledging that he sucks and has no clue how the game works, he makes up outrageous shit like this and then makes up stories of how he "always tops the scoreboards" - which is true, if you replace "always" with "never".I am sorry that this was the first time I took notice of him, as reading through his archive I chuckled a few times.
Not even trying to make him stop here, all this stuff just goes over his head anyway.
Michael was first. To save this thread from worthlessness, everyone should help me convince Tears to use this image of Yuri as his avatar instead of the current one:(click to show/hide)
HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHH
thanks, continue
Michael says the same thing everytime he boots up cRPG. "Set sail for fail" :mrgreen:
I am intelligent, handsome, have a job, money,
I don't understand.. generally people work at jobs because they need money, so why would you need a job if you already have money? lol @ poorpeoples
Anyway - still, I have to admit that being a shield/1her is actually pretty hard, or so it seems to me. Now, I'm pretty bad. I'm probably worse than this Michael fellow, even though I've played for quite a long time. But I'm on a balanced shielder build right now, and I get far, far more kills using a good long polearm - and I mean now on this build, with no wpf in polearm.
But probably that's how it should be. Shield/1h is a defensive build. I can't get many kills having so very little power.. not to mention short range, and much less speed than I'd expected. But when my goal is to survive longer, it's pretty swell. I can do things like jump into a bunch of enemies from a siege ladder, turtle over into a corner, and distract a big group of them while my teammates get up there. Or raise my shield and open the castle gate even whilst enemies are swarming the gatehouse.
Until your face is turned into a pancake from a great maul.
Until your face is turned into a pancake from a great maul.
But the point of jumping into the horde of enemies from a siege ladder and trying to turtle your way off into a corner isn't to live forever - it's to draw a bunch of enemies away from the top of the ladder long enough for the teammates behind you to break through. Doesn't always work, but it works a heck of a lot more than doing it without a shield - even in lordly plate armor, that doesn't usually turn out well.
Anyway, the point is that 'doing well' as a shielder doesn't necessarily mean getting the most kills; it's suited for supportive roles, and when used well can be tremendously helpful. But it definitely is not easy to be a shielder in any sense, and particularly when people mean it is easy to achieve a good kdr with it.
It's easy to get a good kd ratio as a shielder on siege servers.
I think on a siege server it is easy to get a good K/D ratio with any class, considering how suicidal and non-observant people get on that.
Siege is the toxic waste dumping grounds of cRPG. Skill not required.
Indeed sir, indeed. I imagine this is what runs through his mind every time he clicks submit post:
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To play as 1h shield is no fun, even lamhban complained about it all the time in the recorded battle union against pillagers.
The guy, who test it, has ping 10 and test it on level 20 players on siege server with ping 80.
Problem:
1. 1h is a bit too slow with shield and without (no reason to use 1h pure)
2. At same time 1h swords lack damage power (1h - 30 dmg while 2h - 40 dmg = 4 ps difference)
3. Heavy weight of shields slow you down so much that shielders get very often outmaneuvered.
4. Width of shields is too small thats why shielders get hit through the side of the shield (the model seems to be bigger)
5. Slow game speed allow to block forever while shields have low hp and thats why are easy to break
6. Shields cost too much thats why in strategus people use level 1-3 shields only
I main 1h & shield and find threads like this annoying. 1h & shield is NOT difficult. Sure it takes longer to kill someone, but they are great at defense. If you're a good 1-hander, it's pretty easy to top the charts.It does. Try to swing from a block with and without a shield. There is a difference.
Now, let's look at these claims:
1. Shields DO NOT affect swing speed. 1 handers are overall the fastest weapons in the game. Carrying a shield does NOT slow down your attacks.
2. 1 handers should do less damage than 2 handers. It's called "balance". They can't be great at everything.I am fine with a damage difference but not with the amount of it. Especially since all damage bonuses work on a percentage basis.
3. You only notice the slowdown from shields if you're holding your block button down. PROTIP: Don't turtle. It's a slow, boring way to get killed.So why take a shiel when your protip is "don´t block"?
4. Change your facing. It annoys me when people who are using autoblock think that it should automatically give them 180 degree protection.It annoys me if wide swings go through my shield, solely because the enemy was somewhere at my left or right side.
6. Shields don't cost too much. The Knightly Heater which is a FANTASTIC shield only costs around 4k.But it looks like crap.
To play as 1h shield is no fun, even lamhban complained about it all the time in the recorded battle union against pillagers.
The guy, who test it, has ping 10 and test it on level 20 players on siege server with ping 80.
Problem:
1. 1h is a bit too slow with shield and without (no reason to use 1h pure)
2. At same time 1h swords lack damage power (1h - 30 dmg while 2h - 40 dmg = 4 ps difference)
3. Heavy weight of shields slow you down so much that shielders get very often outmaneuvered.
4. Width of shields is too small thats why shielders get hit through the side of the shield (the model seems to be bigger)
5. Slow game speed allow to block forever while shields have low hp and thats why are easy to break
6. Shields cost too much thats why in strategus people use level 1-3 shields only
Solution:
+1 speed for 1h swords
+2 dmg for 1h swords
- 2 dmg for 1h maces and picks
+2 width for shields
+2 speed for shield
- 2 weight of shield
Optional:
No block ability and no overheads for weapons over 2m
- 2 dmg for bec
-20 Accuracy for crossbows
- 2 dmg for 2h
- 2 dmg for 2h mace
Bastard and heavy bastard sword 1 slot
Some sort of horse nerf like damage after each bump.
At the moment even a very good shielder needs his team to back him up so that he can get some kills.
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Dusturil
Solution:
+1 speed for 1h swords
+2 dmg for 1h swords
- 2 dmg for 1h maces and picks
+2 width for shields
+2 speed for shield
- 2 weight of shield
Optional:
No block ability and no overheads for weapons over 2m
- 2 dmg for bec
-20 Accuracy for crossbows
- 2 dmg for 2h
- 2 dmg for 2h mace
Bastard and heavy bastard sword 1 slot
Some sort of horse nerf like damage after each bump.
:lol:
Your deep argumentation let me guess that stupid can get admin rights in this mod :lol:
Your post doesn't deserve to be argumented, only laughed at.
First learn to play/game mechanicsThen think what you want to say(click to show/hide)
Then post it. If you have nothing to say then dont post, this is not your thread, go away stop spam.
To play as 1h shield is no fun, even lamhban complained about it all the time in the recorded battle union against pillagers.
The guy, who test it, has ping 10 and test it on level 20 players on siege server with ping 80.
Problem:
1. 1h is a bit too slow with shield and without (no reason to use 1h pure)
2. At same time 1h swords lack damage power (1h - 30 dmg while 2h - 40 dmg = 4 ps difference)
3. Heavy weight of shields slow you down so much that shielders get very often outmaneuvered.
4. Width of shields is too small thats why shielders get hit through the side of the shield (the model seems to be bigger)
5. Slow game speed allow to block forever while shields have low hp and thats why are easy to break
6. Shields cost too much thats why in strategus people use level 1-3 shields only
Solution:
+1 speed for 1h swords
+2 dmg for 1h swords
- 2 dmg for 1h maces and picks
+2 width for shields
+2 speed for shield
- 2 weight of shield
Optional:
No block ability and no overheads for weapons over 2m
- 2 dmg for bec
-20 Accuracy for crossbows
- 2 dmg for 2h
- 2 dmg for 2h mace
Bastard and heavy bastard sword 1 slot
Some sort of horse nerf like damage after each bump.
All the problems he mentioned are pulled out of his arse.This
They are the fastest weapon in-game, proper 1h overheads and left-to-right sideswings are lightsaber fast, not to mention elite scimitar even.
They have less damage because they are 1H. Where does it say 1h should have nearly equal damage to 2h?10-12 points difference is to much, 6-8 would be enough for the game balance. If danish would make 38 and german 37 it would not make 2h powerless.
Not if you know how to footwork.
If you know how to keep your enemy infront of your shield at all times you won't ever have a problem with this.What is then the point to use a shield... to turtle until a friendly 2h get the kill?
Feint?
There are some good low price shields.
No, with shield they are slow. Second bastard sword, katana, mace, lange messer alt mod are faster or same fast, elite scimitar has 99 speed.
10-12 points difference is to much, 6-8 would be enough for the game balance. If danish would make 38 and german 37 it would not make 2h powerless.(click to show/hide)
Not if You know how to footwork with 8 athletics.
What is then the point to use a shield... to turtle until a friendly 2h get the kill?
Feints of shielders are easy to block because of slow game speed or just to move out of their range.
Learn to quote. Im out.
Holy fuck.
Weapon swing speed is unaffected by shields. It's the shield dropping speed BEFORE the actual weapon swing that delays the sword. Therefore get 100 speed shield and you won't suffer from it.
No, the damage is just fine now and the game is balanced (on this part). Also stupid RL point is stupid.I stick with it, the damage difference is too high.
...
Well, that is just nitpicking. Usually you have to drop your shield in a fight situation.
And shield speed has nothing to do with your swing speed. I have tested this, only weapon speed and wpf do matter.
I stick with it, the damage difference is too high.
Ok, in your exemple it was a difference of 10 damage points.
If i add an average power stike bonus, then it becomes to 15 more damage, with additional wpf bonus to 18 more damage and with an average speed bonus to 23 more damage for a single hit.
DID I HEAR STATISTICS TIME??????????
Eu1 last week: (12.7. to 18.7.)
One handed: 47578 (25.96%)
Two handed: 51864 (28.30%)
Polearms: 51689 (28.20%)
Bow: 13918 (7.59%)
Crossbows: 7563 (4.13%)
Thrown: 1978 (1.08%)
Headshot: 6630 (3.62%)
horsebump: 1982 (1.08%)
Others: 62 (0.03%)
DID I HEAR STATISTICS TIME??????????
Others: 62 (0.03%)
Wtf???
Wtf???
Gravity is a bitch.
...
Do 2handers get autoblock and arrow stopper? You want to have all that AND deal damage close to 2h? Okay.jpg
Here are some statistics from a month ago, would be interesting to see new ones since I think there was a growth in 1h+shield population past few weeks
The fact that 1h, 2h and polearms have roughly the same kill percentage just proves melee is now more balanced then ever.
What i see is
One handed: (25.96%) vs Two handed: (28.30%) + Polearms: (28.20%)
I never said shield speed influences swing speed, I just said it reduces the delay of lowering/raising shield - which in term helps you strike back faster after blocking and block faster.
Actually, shields don't cause any delay in your attacks at all regardless of shield speed. Shield speed also has nothing to do with the raising and lowering animation. If your shield is up and you attack, you will instantly attack. There is no delay.
What shield speed actually does is determine how fast your shield will begin to block regardless of the animation. A 100 speed shield will block BEFORE your shield is actually raised. You can tap block with 100 speed shields. A 61 speed shield like the steel shield does not block until AFTER it is fully raised. So the instant you raise that thing, blocks can still go through. I haven't tested to determine which shield speed matches the animation speed, but it probably doesn't matter anyway. Slow shields are meant for tanking and fast ones for fighting.
Actually, shields don't cause any delay in your attacks at all regardless of shield speed. Shield speed also has nothing to do with the raising and lowering animation. If your shield is up and you attack, you will instantly attack. There is no delay.
...
And i say there is a delay.
You can test it by yourself.
I have tested this with 1hand/2hand and polearm with the same speed.
The attack out of a holded block is slower if you use a shield. This is why the onehanders have a higher speed rating, to counter this effeckt.
This a slow motion capture, bastard vs simple sword both with 99 speed rating and used with 44 wpf.(click to show/hide)
This a slow motion capture, bastard vs simple sword both with 99 speed rating and used with 44 wpf.(click to show/hide)
This a slow motion capture, bastard vs simple sword both with 99 speed rating and used with 44 wpf.(click to show/hide)
Here is the video of Lamhban
23:55 and other moments
http://en.twitch.tv/calradia2/b/291540665
And very nice that such known shielder like Mala agree too.
I think that Varyag would agree too since he try to switch to crossbow :wink:
I am pretty sure all of NA would agree that I am a terrible player
1h shield is so easy, just grab a scimitar and go 18/18 and you will pwn no matter how crappy you are.
Oh no HEeelP, Im xantrustyspoonsblackmilk2hmedicoreplayer, the wolrd will end for me if danish get only 38 cut and elite scimitar 32 cut, HeelP HeELp, shield get instead of 30 width oh god 32 width, no no no, I have no skill, the wolrd will eNd :mrgreen:Not funny. :wink:
Oh no HEeelP, Im xantrustyspoonsblackmilk2hmedicoreplayer, the wolrd will end for me if danish get only 38 cut and elite scimitar 32 cut, HeelP HeELp, shield get instead of 30 width oh god 32 width, no no no, I have no skill, the wolrd will eNd :mrgreen:Eu1 last week: (12.7. to 18.7.)
Oh no HEeelP, Im xantrustyspoonsblackmilk2hmedicoreplayer, the wolrd will end for me if danish get only 38 cut and elite scimitar 32 cut, HeelP HeELp, shield get instead of 30 width oh god 32 width, no no no, I have no skill, the wolrd will eNd :mrgreen:
Oh no HEeelP, Im xantrustyspoonsblackmilk2hmedicoreplayer, the wolrd will end for me if danish get only 38 cut and elite scimitar 32 cut, HeelP HeELp, shield get instead of 30 width oh god 32 width, no no no, I have no skill, the wolrd will eNd :mrgreen::p everyone knows scimis are easymode. greys for example :P
See the same.
What i see is
One handed: (25.96%) vs Two handed: (28.30%) + Polearms: (28.20%)
Well 1H ain't easy mode if you pick some other weapons than Spamitar or Steel Pick. But if you choose to wield those weapons it's easy mode 100%. Hard to block, deal high damage, super fast, those two weapons need serious nerf.
This also supports Walt's data in that animations finish at exactly the same time. Which both of those do. Now, where the sword is at for that moment of time is a different matter.
Regardless, the animation finishes at the same time -which it should- with 99 speed weapons.
Do left-to-right too, because this doesn't show the whole picture. :)I could have use the thrust animation, too. But i have choosed a medium speed animation for both, because it seemed to be a bit fairer.
:p everyone knows scimis are easymode. greys for example :P
Hmm, do i have to remind you of the boulder on the stick and throwing lance phases of HRE?Way before my time Mala i guess :p
Couldn't agree more here, real men don't take Spammitars or Steel picks!Real men (or Tavern Keepers) take torches.
Maybe shields are not supposed to get as many kills as two handed weapons?
In warfare shields were defensive utility equipment for the most part. Two handed weapons should be getting the lion's share of kills and shields should protect teammates and defend entry points.
The multiplier system has shifted explicit player goals/gain from the kill count to consecutive team victories.
The "class" system is silly, and not meant for mount and blade. Making the weapons equal in terms of their ability to collect kills will totally distort item functions until they resemble a silly arcade game rather than an interesting simulation of medieval combat, which m&b was always intended to be.
Maybe shields are not supposed to get as many kills as two handed weapons?
In warfare shields were defensive utility equipment for the most part. Two handed weapons should be getting the lion's share of kills and shields should protect teammates and defend entry points.
The multiplier system has shifted explicit player goals/gain from the kill count to consecutive team victories.
The "class" system is silly, and not meant for mount and blade. Making the weapons equal in terms of their ability to collect kills will totally distort item functions until they resemble a silly arcade game rather than an interesting simulation of medieval combat, which m&b was always intended to be.
I personally have yet to see a single shield kill anyone. It's usually the weapon held in the other hand that does the killing.
And as far as I know, 2h's weren't used (often) on the battlefield until plate armour took the place of the shield in terms of protection.
Plate armour = no need for a shield = a free hand to wield a bigger weapon with.
Michael still too badat the moment
Maybe shields are not supposed to get as many kills as two handed weapons?
In warfare shields were defensive utility equipment for the most part. Two handed weapons should be getting the lion's share of kills and shields should protect teammates and defend entry points.
(Even if there's far too many projectiles in the air to call it mount and blade anymore instead of mount and pew)
That's not accurate. The Romans slaughtered hundreds of thousands using their shield and short sword (gladis). And they did it against axe and sword wielding 2h barbarians. Shielders should be the equal of 2h, and in this game they are not.
Why oh why is this thread even still going guys?
1h/shield is in a good place currently.
2h/polearms are in a good place currently.
Archery/Xbows/throwing are all in a good place currently.
Cavalry... well that will always be in a good place even if couching was the only thing you could do with it and there was only sumpter horses so meh.
There's still some internal balance issues within each catagory, but compared to each other as a whole cRPG is actually in quite a nice state of balance at the moment. (Even if there's far too many projectiles in the air to call it mount and blade anymore instead of mount and pew)
This thread was pointless from the start anyway.
Get a fast shield (100 speed one) and block with it as you would with a 2h weapons (directional). Drastically decreases the chance to get hit begind your shield.
1h is fine but the only problem is see is that sometimes ill fight a 2 hander and he will use his lolstab to curve his blade behind me and kill me even tho im facing directly infront of him...its only happened a few times
even though it looks like your shield is up, that doesn't mean it's blocking...
Is there any proof to this cause it sounds like it's in your head, lol.
afaik directional blocking doesn't do shit for shields. I'm sure it's how many of us block unconciously with shields anyways when we go shielder for a gen after playing our 2h/polearmers.
With proper facing I've never had this happen to me ever. It honestly sounds like a case of using a slow shield. What shield do you use by the way?
Just so you know, fast shields (100 speed) will block BEFORE the shield is raised. Slow shields (61 speed) block sometime AFTER the shield is raised. I don't know where the values between those fall as far as blocking goes 'cause I've never tested. However, even though it looks like your shield is up, that doesn't mean it's blocking...
Naw, that is probably due to the way 2h stab animation is nowadays, it still hits once the animation is past the stab, so you probably lowered your block early.
2h stab animation is way too long. Stopped counting how many times I lowered my block because I thought that 2h stab already missed me when it was actually still in the animation.
2h stab animation is way too long. Stopped counting how many times I lowered my block because I thought that 2h stab already missed me when it was actually still in the animation.
Just chamber them. They are so slow that its almost more difficult NOT to chamber them.
Its just not worth to block them.
nerf 1h and shield moar, real men do not hide behind the shields.
nerf 1h and shield moar, real men do not hide behind the shields.
2h stab animation is way too long. Stopped counting how many times I lowered my block because I thought that 2h stab already missed me when it was actually still in the animation.So you want the old animation back?
I dont regret it.
yet
Nahhh, you don't get it.
Thats an addicts way to find a valid reason to keep playing this mod ;-)
When things are too easy or overused or boring you have to go for the hard way.
You simply have to suprise yourself or really quit.
1h + shield is different, but not really harder. As for myself, I got bored of being a shielder after 1 gen, I simply missed manual blocking.
This is balance:
Easy to harder: Polearms>Shielder>throwing>2hander>Crossbows>archery=horse archery=pole cav
Polearms:Full pole spam with axe to shielders ! none can stand against this poles...
Shield:Easiest or second easiest.Just wait enemy attack then attack...If you are pro , pole is better for you ...
Throwing: Too epic damage in crpg.take enemies in 2-3 shoot.Fun !
2 hander:Fight with 130 meters great swords.Fun and balanced.
Crossbows:Epic damage epic accuray but low speed...
Archery:Too bad at crpg...It sucks and hard.
Horse archery:Hard.Your arrows wont go straight ! it is bad...
Pole cav:Crpg mod fucked it for balance.You can only attack straight; it makes you cant hurt peasant with trident...
This is balance:certainly true.
Easy to harder: Polearms>Shielder>throwing>2hander>Crossbows>archery=horse archery=pole cav
Polearms:Full pole spam with axe to shielders ! none can stand against this poles...
Shield:Easiest or second easiest.Just wait enemy attack then attack...If you are pro , pole is better for you ...
Throwing: Too epic damage in crpg.take enemies in 2-3 shoot.Fun !
2 hander:Fight with 130 meters great swords.Fun and balanced.
Crossbows:Epic damage epic accuray but low speed...
Archery:Too bad at crpg...It sucks and hard.
Horse archery:Hard.Your arrows wont go straight ! it is bad...
Pole cav:Crpg mod fucked it for balance.You can only attack straight; it makes you cant hurt peasant with trident...
note to self: never take blackmilk's or bertas's balance suggestions seriously from this point forward.what I want to say is that not everything that he says is completly useless. :D
what I want to say is that not everything that he says is completly useless. :D
This is balance:
Easy to harder: Polearms>Shielder>throwing>2hander>Crossbows>archery=horse archery=pole cav
Polearms:Full pole spam with axe to shielders ! none can stand against this poles...
Shield:Easiest or second easiest.Just wait enemy attack then attack...If you are pro , pole is better for you ...
Throwing: Too epic damage in crpg.take enemies in 2-3 shoot.Fun !
2 hander:Fight with 130 meters great swords.Fun and balanced.
Crossbows:Epic damage epic accuray but low speed...
Archery:Too bad at crpg...It sucks and hard.
Horse archery:Hard.Your arrows wont go straight ! it is bad...
Pole cav:Crpg mod fucked it for balance.You can only attack straight; it makes you cant hurt peasant with trident...
Is this one better ?dude you cant be serious. 1h and Polearms are WAY more easier to play with than archery.
Easy to harder: Crossbows>archery>throwing>2hander>HA>HX>Polearms>pole cav>Shielder>1h cav>2h cav>mounted thrower>swashbuckler>peasant>peasant with peasant clothes
Although one might argue that with a spammitar, a shielder is 200% easier to play.
dude you cant be serious. 1h and Polearms are WAY more easier to play with than archery.
Shoot, run, shoot, run, shoot, run. Maybe dodge or OS one idiotic cav that tries to poke you. I don't really consider that difficult. It's just the same as the xbowman. With a little less accuracy, but a way better rate of fire. I still consider archery more difficult than xbows though (probably because I didn't tried it with full +3 equipment). But the fact that you can avoid all melee combat with very few exceptions makes these two classes ridiculously OP.duh. As a dedicated archer you cant have more than 2-3 IF and maybe 2 PS plus 7 Athletics and 6 Powerdraw. There are many players with 7 athletics and light armor (ninjas), so you cant run away from every melee and youre pretty much fucked when they come to you.
I'm not speaking about the early game btw. This is for experienced players, with some looms.
Cavalry may seem easy, but don't forget you have to be more effective than a footman if you want to break even (more than 50% win rate). Furthermore, it was nerfed so hard that only the core (very good) players remain.
duh. As a dedicated archer you cant have more than 2-3 IF and maybe 2 PS plus 7 Athletics and 6 Powerdraw. There are many players with 7 athletics and light armor (ninjas), so you cant run away from every melee and youre pretty much fucked when they come to you.
other with xbow. 15/24 with 8 athletics and 5 ps. assuming the damage you can deal with an arbalest and the fact that you dont bounce off with 5 ps at all, xbows seem to be the most op class.
Easiest to hardest:So wrong, do you even play this game? O_o
2H>Shielder>Polearm>Polecav>Archery>Xbow>1H cav>2H cav>HA>HX>Thrower>Mounted Thrower
So wrong, do you even play this game? O_o
So wrong, do you even play this game? O_o
a level 30 2hdude with a flamberge can top a scoreboard? I demand a NERF!
I've played one gen of 1h, a couple gens of 2h, and one gen of polearm. I will be playing 1h next gen so I will get pincushioned less in strat.
I did not find my 1h gen to be any harder (or any easier) than playing 2H. My KDR was pretty much exactly the same.
I've played one gen of 1h, a couple gens of 2h, and one gen of polearm. I will be playing 1h next gen so I will get pincushioned less in strat.
I did not find my 1h gen to be any harder (or any easier) than playing 2H. My KDR was pretty much exactly the same.
It is my opinion that 1H, 2H, and polearms are really well balanced right now:
* 1H gets a shield, a left-swing that nearly always hits the head, and animations that can be very tricky to block when well feinted.
* 2H gets all-round excellent animations, and fairly high damage weapons.
* Polearms get polestun, high damage weapons, and balanced shieldbreakers (in exchange for really bad animations).
Atm 1h shield is very viable and very strong class.
But sadly most 1h players are complete noobs. They try 2h, can't block, get killed every time, try archery, low damage and arc, hear from others that you don't have to manual block so they go 1h and they are kinda satisfied because they don't die as often.
Some of them eventually buy a horse or try xbow and that way they can score some kills...
and some of them eventually fail even at mounted xbowmen, they reroll 1h and open threads like this about game balance.
after a long time playing this game, is rather hard to admit to be below the average skill. and failing to admit this, will only lead you to die in the first 30 seconds of a round.
i see shielders top the battle scoreboards most of the time. not to mention 1h infantry and specially 1h cavalry rule the strat battles.
i was thinking to reroll 1h too to be more effective in strat battles and roll a 2h alt for fun.
Lol, you have problems playing 2h in strat?
Also shielders are especially strong these days because shield doesn't slow them down as it used to, so high agi shielders can catch archers, and also have good speed bonus which in combination with nature of their attacks (it's easiest to hit head using 1H weapons) leads to a very effective class for killing. Of course only aggressive shielders have that advantage, but if you're being defensive you're doing it wrong. Most 2H can't do much against aggressive shielder who knows to tap shield then hit then tap shield mechanics. Only slow and defensive guys don't do well as shielders.
dont nerf me, I am not a 2 hit killing machine with my nordic war sword
1h is balanced right now, can we let this damned thread die?
Also shielders are especially strong these daysWhat?
dont nerf me, I am not a 2 hit killing machine with my nordic war sword
1h is balanced right now, can we let this damned thread die?
Shielders are more defensive support, protecting and helping teammates approach the other team quickly/easily. For now, I think str-based shielders are the way to go, it's just so much easier. You can tank/protect teammates better, take hits, and deal damage.
no they are not. every player in this game protects only his own ass because players unable to protect themselves don't use allies as cover. i haven't seen ashieldershieldless infantryprotecting friendlyusing the cover offered by2h playershielders to protect them from enemy archers in a loong time...
All this bitching about what is easiest, yet NOBODY mention how fucking underpowered spear+shield is. You wanna go hardmode? grab a warspear and a shield, NEVER put shield away, and see how ya do.
no they are not. every player in this game protects only his own ass. i haven't seen a shielder protecting friendly 2h player from enemy archer in a loong time...
I play 1h + spear + shield atm, using mostly spear and shield, it's fine with mw red tessel spear.You have a 1h for when you are alone, which is when spearmen are the most fucked up? Although a tassel spear is probably better than a warspear because of the speed, you can't really say that it's good enough when you are alone. Your still gonna be ganked.
What's wrong with spear-shield?
Shield + spear is an excellent support class and for 1v1 you just drop the shield.
Playing "hardmode" never dropping the shield is indeed hard if you happen to find yourself in a 1v1.
It is also very stupid.
What's wrong with spear-shield?Sigh. Because when you use a spear without the shield then you aren't a spearman any more. Do you REALLY think it is so OP to add ONE more attack direction for a shield+spear usage?
Shield + spear is an excellent support class and for 1v1 you just drop the shield.
Playing "hardmode" never dropping the shield is indeed hard if you happen to find yourself in a 1v1.
It is also very stupid.
Sigh. Because when you use a spear without the shield then you aren't a spearman any more. Do you REALLY think it is so OP to add ONE more attack direction for a shield+spear usage?
And about the polestun. They don't stack. If you hit someone, they get stunned, but if you hit them again during that stun (stunblocking) they wont get stunned again. Although if you HOLD it and wait for the stun to go away you can polestun them again (but then they would be able to BLOCK).
only agispammers can chain stun with fast wepons
Sigh. Because when you use a spear without the shield then you aren't a spearman any more. Do you REALLY think it is so OP to add ONE more attack direction for a shield+spear usage?
wat?And being unable to do any real damage, attack slower than an overweight hippo and being useless if the enemy downblocks is ok for you?
Also: Yes I think it would be slightly op since the only reasonable additional animation I can think of for shield/spear is an overhead stab.
Longspear with autoblock + twice as confusing animation = op to me.
And being unable to do any real damage, attack slower than an overweight hippo and being useless if the enemy downblocks is ok for you?
Spear+shield not dong any damage, attacking too slow blablabla is bs. I've played it myself and as support there's nothing wrong with the class.
And if I found myself alone I'd just drop the shield, what's the problem with that?
If you have an agi build spear + shield is decent in 1 vs. 1. You just have to play it right. I'll agree with you on one point though, it's harder than other classes in 1 vs. 1.I know. All I'm saying is that having ONE more attack direction wouldn't suddenly make them "OMFG OP" but it would REALLY help them out. Currently they are the least powerful melee option, all I want is to give them a buff.
I know. All I'm saying is that having ONE more attack direction wouldn't suddenly make them "OMFG OP" but it would REALLY help them out. Currently they are the least powerful melee option, all I want is to give them a buff.
I carry the awlpike a lot as a 1h, and I often pull it out to help a 2h teammate with an opponent.
The extra range means I won't be getting in the way of my teammate's swings, and the simple threat of a chambered thrust usually means my teammate can dispatch the enemy without any problems.
It's useless 1v1, but it's not useless in battle by any means.
I carry the awlpike a lot as a 1h, and I often pull it out to help a 2h teammate with an opponent.Agreed. That's the reason I haven't given up on it already. All I am saying is that it wouldn't ruin things if they got some boost in their duel/alone fighting. With 1 extra attack direction they still wouldn't be as good as 2h/pole(no shield)/1h, but they wouldn't be a completely useless. As it is now, you can't attack back after blocking a hit (unless the other is a 1 WM and your an agi build), you do 30% less damage than without a shield, you have ONE attack direction (which, if it is chambered, you wont have enough time to block again. VERY annoying) and you move slow ass fuck because of the HUGE weight of shields.
The extra range means I won't be getting in the way of my teammate's swings, and the simple threat of a chambered thrust usually means my teammate can dispatch the enemy without any problems.
It's useless 1v1, but it's not useless in battle by any means.
I know. All I'm saying is that having ONE more attack direction wouldn't suddenly make them "OMFG OP" but it would REALLY help them out. Currently they are the least powerful melee option, all I want is to give them a buff.
So your saying that spear+shield would be OP if they had 1 more attack direction? Doesn't necessarily have to be overhead btw.
LOL
Forgive me, i just imagined how the overhead one hand spear animation would look.
So we have this spear/shield guy, immune to cav and archers, if he's smart. But he can't duel properly against other melee users, so you want to give him a "big" buff, by allowing overhead with it, imaright ?
I say "no". For the reason i'm the 2h miadao melee guy who want at least one easy kill, or one sure hit when i manage to reach that spear/shield guy alive. The difference between only downblocking, and being aware of the ennemy animation, and doing upblock or downblock according to the situation is huge, imo. That's the reason why pikemen get slaughtered, and longspearmen can own you.
I don't think they need a buff just because the other 1h weapon for shielders are so op that they are overused. I played a spear/shield once, and most of the times, ennemies don't expect your spear to hit so early, and take a LOT of damage from that pierce stab. Enough time to switch to a quaterstaff, without a shield, and have all 4 attack directions.
LOL
Forgive me, i just imagined how the overhead one hand spear animation would look.
So we have this spear/shield guy, immune to cav and archers, if he's smart. But he can't duel properly against other melee users, so you want to give him a "big" buff, by allowing overhead with it, imaright ?
I say "no". For the reason i'm the 2h miadao melee guy who want at least one easy kill, or one sure hit when i manage to reach that spear/shield guy alive. The difference between only downblocking, and being aware of the ennemy animation, and doing upblock or downblock according to the situation is huge, imo. That's the reason why pikemen get slaughtered, and longspearmen can own you.
I don't think they need a buff just because the other 1h weapon for shielders are so op that they are overused. I played a spear/shield once, and most of the times, ennemies don't expect your spear to hit so early, and take a LOT of damage from that pierce stab. Enough time to switch to a quaterstaff, without a shield, and have all 4 attack directions.
This is why most people, regardless of the weapon, looks to the side/ground/air when they start the animation and then "move" the stab into the enemy).
I'm playing a polearm guy and I do like to use spears quite often as I use other weapons. And I don't do too bad with spears. They are quite fast weapons without shield. Sure that you would'nt fight with a spear and a shield if you don't have some mates close to you to protect you.Wut? Nobody wanted that! That would just look gay as hell! If I wanted a "up" attack it should rather be a high stab, like you see on those old greek heroic vases. But personally I say one type of swing would be usefull. Doing low blunt damage and not being the fastest move in your arsenal, but still goes a long way to make your attacks more than obvious. ("oh, that spearman just lowered his shield and is gonna attack! Gee, I wonder which direction he's gonna attack from, considering he only have one!" is how it is now)
If you're alone you just put your shield on your back to fight your oponent. It's exactly as using a bastard or a longsword, you can use a shield to protect from ranged but you keep it on your back when you fight because you don't wanna be to slow...
It's not the most destructive weapon of cRPG, ok. :D For the moment it's a fast, long and cheap one. I think to make it more realist and effective, it should do 2 more damages points in piercing.
But please don't speak again about this one handed overhead stab animation of a 2.5meters weapon long that would just be horrible and out of any realistic considerations! :shock: If I give you a shield and a spear that long in the other hand, you just could hit one way (piercing as it is in the game). I think it's a big enought reason to keep this one attack direction.
I think that Paul and Fasader should quickly do something about this 1h+shield situation. They need a hefty buff. The sooner the better.
I think that Paul and Fasader should quickly do something about this 1h+shield situation. They need a hefty buff. The sooner the better.
I think that Paul and Fasader should quickly do something about this 1h+shield situation. They need a hefty buff. The sooner the better.
I wouldn't say too difficult, just worse.
When I talk about 1h shield I talk about normal builds not about 12/24 mw steel pick exploit builds.
One handed: 29799 (24.5%)
Two handed: 44510 (36.6%)
Polearms: 47422 (38.9%)
I wouldn't say too difficult, just worse.
In NA, you rarely see steel picks or even scimitars (compared to before) nowadays.
But that's probably because(click to show/hide)
well spearmen could use the overhead stab animation. anyway spearmen are so slow that you can't miss a block with em.
and about OP or not... usually the reason a build is underplayed is because it's gimp. 5 months ago, there was no throwers around. 3months ago throwers got balanced and now we see em a reasonable amount. 9 months ago there was an archery galore. they got the new nockin arrow animation and archer number gone down. now there is a reasonable amount.
should be the same with spearmen. i don't really give it a damn about playing it but all the fixes that brings a little diversity in the usual and boring builds is welcome imo.
last thing. now if you see a line of spearmen, you just block down and effortly pass through. while against a normal mixed infantry line you can't without blocking the impossible.
with a overhead stab, spearmens will still be slow as hell and easymode to kill but at least not THAT easy.
**same could apply to crossbows... when there is too much spam about one build, usually means that's a little unbalanced. (people will not magically roll one just for fun.. cmon.)
that's why i find the pikeman really effective at aiming the sky then releasing a downward stab. that bypass most near teammates to poke with good power the target 2 meters away. i used to aim sides, roflcopter, but the most effective (while the right to left stab is the most powerful) in terms of teamwounds and surprise, it's the "skydiving thrust of doom" :lol:
Groups of spear/shield can be deadly, since they can stab at your side, and once they hit you, they can spam that till your death. On Eu1, just today, you can see 4 Board Shield/awlpikes going together, led by Sultan Eren. And they're doing fine, imo.Yeah, I know that. But you forget that pikes/longspears are FASTER than a spear&shield. AND the enemy is gonna facehug you (unless complete retard), so there really isn't that much you can do alone. Yeah, with friends it works. Still. Nobody has given a proper reason as to why they shouldn't get one more attack direction. Nobody has still given a reason as to how that would be op.
Oh, and Zapper, about the "you bounce often with a spear/shield", l2p. All longpsear and pikeman know now how to aim at the side before going on the target, for speed bonus and such. Why shouldn't the shielder do that too ? Because they're used of just facehugging, block, slash, block, slash ? Not our fault.
And yes, i DO want at least one easy kill, that's the rock/paper/scisors thing, imaright. I get owned by archers, cav, got duels with 2h/Polearms and shield/1h, and can deal with more ease with longspear/pike and shield/spear. That's the way it is.
The thing about shield+spear, it is VERY powerful when sheathable. You can go anywhere on the map that you want with a spear + shield. May not be so great for offense, but it definitely aids your defense capabilities and helps you vs standard 1h+shield counters.Everything else 1h? Well that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about having only shield&spear. A spear, 1h and Shield is VERY different from spear and Shield.
Archers? Shield
Cav? Range Bonus on spear stops cav, then change weapon for the kill
Horse archer/xbower? - both shield + spear
2v1 against opponent? Spear+shield with your buddy
Everything else? 1h weapon.
Groups of spear/shield can be deadly, since they can stab at your side, and once they hit you, they can spam that till your death. On Eu1, just today, you can see 4 Board Shield/awlpikes going together, led by Sultan Eren. And they're doing fine, imo.You do realize that you are talking to Jarlek and that l2p is a pretty creepy argument, dont you?
Oh, and Zapper, about the "you bounce often with a spear/shield", l2p. All longpsear and pikeman know now how to aim at the side before going on the target, for speed bonus and such. Why shouldn't the shielder do that too ? Because they're used of just facehugging, block, slash, block, slash ? Not our fault.
And yes, i DO want at least one easy kill, that's the rock/paper/scisors thing, imaright. I get owned by archers, cav, got duels with 2h/Polearms and shield/1h, and can deal with more ease with longspear/pike and shield/spear. That's the way it is.
And yes, i DO want at least one easy kill, that's the rock/paper/scisors thing, imaright.
R/P/S "balance" is the lamest, laziest and crappiest "balance" a game can have.
Thats the beauty of Warband, any class can kill any class there is no R/P/S however some might have it easier killing some but it's still quite equal. And when they start to balance after RPS thats the day I will uinstall :(Right after it's spear&shield brother, ofc.
With that said, 1h could use a buff.
Thats the beauty of Warband, any class can kill any class there is no R/P/S however some might have it easier killing some but it's still quite equal. And when they start to balance after RPS thats the day I will uinstall :(
With that said, 1h could use a buff.
... just removing speed penalty, i know, impossible ...
fact you retired as a 1h/shield is just a coincidense... :rolleyes: