ive seen 1h topping boards today too
not as many as 2h of course but... this is how people usually play warband multiplayer;
1) Either start as archer or 1h/shield or switch to them after being owned and unable to manual block
2) Become really good at their chosen class
3) Go to duel servers to become even better
4) Some decide to go 2h/pole for more "challenge" (not saying 1h is easy to be good at, just easier to play without manual block)
5) The players who have been playing for some time and have put time into duel servers and learning new tricks now top score boards
This is how I see it, or it could all be bs.
Same thing as before, you want to swing faster drop the shield. 1handers are faster than 2handers and polearms, just manual block once and move in clsoe you will outspam the crap out of them. Shield users have a huge advantage of being able to hold a block for 90% of the time and actually ahve it autoblock incoming attacks, its a much more methodical way of fighting and yous wing slwoer with a shield, so your speed has to rely as much on good footwork and positioning as spamming. Practice your footwork adn positioning or get rid of the shield and you will find you will hit first.
You should probably just accept that a properly built 2h is probably going to match or beat you in speed, range, and power up close. You need to outplay them in order to win.
But without the shield, why use the sword?
Sword and shield should be the same speed as 2h/polearm
the difference between the two should ONLY be range and damage, the 2h/polearm having greater of both.
And this isnt just goretooth.
None of you are responding to any of these balancing issues I've raised, which leads me to believe you are ignoring them because you're the happy helicopters and you don't want it to change.
My point still holds that 95% of the best players all roll 2h/pa, that alone shows that they need balancing.
I would also argue that unbalanced 2h weapons (especially Spiked Mace comes to mind, with its 99 speed) would need to be slowed down. It feels pretty silly when I see people with 2h maces attack with them like they were made of paper, since they are so front-heavy they'd be anything but quick, and already have the advantage of knockdown.
No, this is a terrible opinion, this obviously proves that it is imbalanced, you can't outplay someone who is faster, more powerful and out ranges you.You left out the factor that when blocking, a 2H/pole need to do the correct out of 4 possible blocks and it interferes a bit with either mouse or key movements. 1H+shield just click RMB regardless of anything.
There used to be a feature in warband where the damage to shields was reduced in the first second after you raised it. I do not know if it is still in the current version.
eviscerate me with literally no chance to attack back between swings.
Why is this so?
helicopter around
Overall, this really is a case of PEBKAC
I'm a sword and board with 8 shield and 160WP with the fastest single handed sword (Nordic) and people in full plate/black armor can STILL helicopter around and eviscerate me with literally no chance to attack back between swings.
Why is this so? 2h and polearms already do drastically greater damage than single handed weapons (rightfully so) and have greater range, so why must they be faster?
The proof of this that every high-roller on every CRPG server is either rolling cav or 2h/polearm as it's main predator the javelin got nerfed (Probably under complaints from the plate wearing helicopters that something could actually kill them).
So, either un-nerf throwing (preferable, as they weren't OP in the first place, having little ammo and being easy to kill close up) or slow 2h and pole arms considerably so you can't swing a 10ft poleaxe faster than a small sword.
"hey im a shielder.. i suck at manual block but i want to kill those damn 2handers because i can't... please nerf them AGAIN. no matter if a 2h is dead meat against a thrower, an archer or a tank with 0 wpf in his backup xbow... i just want to be able to kill em without improving my skill or losing my invulnerability to ranged damage and effortless block" (call it shield).
In duels, sword and board will mostly lose against 2h/pole (especially if they have axes), but the shield is very good for breaking through enemy lines and you can survive for quite some time in a throng of enemies, if you move correctly. Also, sword and board is very good in combination with other players (at least those who know how to play and aren't too afraid to sometimes drop the shield and swing a bit).
But I agree, it is imbalanced. With the fastest shields, sword and board should still swing faster than the average 2h/pole. The problem is that shield speed does not seem to affect the swing at all.
Shield speed only effects how quickly you can raise or lower your shield.
Also factor in shield skill above the base level needed to use the item which also decreases these times.
Lighter weapons when blocked manually by heavier ones also have a stun time in order to allow the 2h fighter an opening to return an attack. This might be the "spam" you are talking about, if they block your attack usually you want to block right away after as the only way to really land a second hit is to move your mouse with a fast left swing *IF* you have enough of a speed advantage against them. If you hit them once then continue your attack until they block then pull your shield up for their counter attack.
Obviously movement is very important too, and self explanatory.
"2h is OP" train with gorath and the other underskilled players.
Overall, this really is a case of PEBKAC
What in the hell are you babbling about? You don't read posts apparently, but I assume that's because either english isn't your native language or you're just literacy challenged. :rolleyes:
2h is OP train huh? Idiot.
BTW: Who are you on the NA servers. I'm really curious how you feel qualified to talk about skilled or underskilled players.
Is it possible to counterattack a 2h or polearm user? I've got 120 wpf in 1handers with a 100 speed sword and 100 speed shield. Even without armor any non-shield user can just keep spamming attack on me and it's impossible to fight back. I just have to wait until a teammate comes and bails me out. I never have this problem when I use a 2 handed weapon.
BTW: Who are you on the NA servers. I'm really curious how you feel qualified to talk about skilled or underskilled players.
Your timing or positioning is wrong. Or possibly you're just getting stunned. Block the first 2 hits to counter the stun, then move to your left and forward and do a left to right slash. Make sure you start the attack as soon as you hear the thud of the block and make sure to turn with your attack as well
WHAT THE HELL IS PEBKAC? goddamn nerds
How do you know if you're stunned? Is there any indicator or are you always stunned on the first attack?
Your timing or positioning is wrong. Or possibly you're just getting stunned. Block the first 2 hits to counter the stun, then move to your left and forward and do a left to right slash. Make sure you start the attack as soon as you hear the thud of the block and make sure to turn with your attack as wel.
He's EU. I've dueled both of you, admittedly against gorath I have 120 ping and I haven't fought corrado_decimo since pre-big patch, but imo gorath is the beter player. That doesn't mean decimo is a bad player though.
On the topic of polearms/2hs being OP: If you're losing in melee combat you have no one to blame but yourself. Melee is fine as far as I'm concerned.
Same thing as before, you want to swing faster drop the shield. 1handers are faster than 2handers and polearms, just manual block once and move in clsoe you will outspam the crap out of them. Shield users have a huge advantage of being able to hold a block for 90% of the time and actually ahve it autoblock incoming attacks, its a much more methodical way of fighting and yous wing slwoer with a shield, so your speed has to rely as much on good footwork and positioning as spamming. Practice your footwork adn positioning or get rid of the shield and you will find you will hit first.This is true but you need as much wpf as the 2h you are facing, and a decent amount of power strike otherwise you will be frustratingly slower than 2h or you will glance when you manage to get a hit in. Spec Kinngrimm, he is a very good shielder.
WHAT THE HELL IS PEBKAC? goddamn nerdsTomas Pebkac was a towering centre back in the 1994 Croatian World Cup team.
You just have to look at the duell server to discover why there are only very few good shield-players.
Of maybe 20 players 2-3 are shielders. The rest are 2h/poles trying to get better.
Those shielders i meet regular on duel are those being good in siege/battle too.
Corrado, I have no idea why you feel the need to suckle on my nuts so much but you are by far one of the most full of shit people I have seen on the forums. Did I fuck your mother or something? :rolleyes:
I doubt you could kill me once, while my back is turned and I'm alt-tabbed, much less several times and the fact that your story hinges on the idea that I give a shit about the term weeabo, much less would "threaten you with my admin powers" because of the term weeabo, shows that you are absolutely full of shit.
Sorry I deep dicked the women in your family but that's still no reason to go around taint sniffing my every post and bullshitting. :rolleyes: Idiot.
How do you beat someone who attacks on nearly the same speed, has tit-for-tat better armor because its simply heirloomed plate and not light, has good range, and can kill you in one hit while taking 3 times as many.
How can you still cry about 2h? swords just got the biggest nerf ever. The small 1h swords have better stats than the 2h at many points. And that shouldent even happen.I tried 1h no shield, 50 wpf, doesn't really outswing 2h at all.
I can spam people with a 1h easyli (yes 2hs). And i have 1 wpf. 1h is extremly fast, 2h aint. Its all about movement, tactics and good builds. And many experienced players may find shielding to easy, because you just have to right click to block. Which is why they go to 2h, to get some challenge.
BTW: 1h with a shield still has great speed.
against "elitistbstwohanders".
Nah, it seems like this game is pretty much pointless unless you have plate armor and a 2hander. Every game the top 10 players always have almost identical gear, always play the exact same spam style, and the game always rewards the worst players with the best k/d. I've never seen a game so consistently reward such a complete lack of skill. I always try to spectate the top players to see if I'm missing anything but I never am, for every 50 2h spammers you might find 1 or 2 guys who are archers or 1h/shield users.
The only thing that concerns me is the fact polearms seem to have slightly higher dmg than 2hers, in many cases higher speed even, the stun and range outreaching 2hers (not taking flamberge as usual 2her). Why is that? Why faster, more dmging, longer at the same time?
One comparision: GLA vs Masterwork Highland Claymore, claymore has 2 more speed, less range, same dmg as not loomed GLA...at least swing one + bonus against shield. I did not see reasoning of nerfing sword dmg, but the more i cannot understand what made the dev let polearms as they are now.
But without the shield, why use the sword?
Bolded the wrong parts. The grip on polearms make them lose a lot of their length.
I tested stab on DGS compared to glaive swing. Glaive swing had more range.
What's your point??
Polearms lose ~20 range, depending on your swing direction.
Glaive is 160 range, DGS is 124 range. Obviously Glaive will be longer. Try to compare Great long Axe (125) to Danish Great Sword (124). Heck I bet DGS will outreach all the Poleaxes.
but the DGS haven't shieldbreaker bonus and do quite less cut damage.
You guys are funny...
what amazes me is that NO-ONE yet mentioned tincans with shield and sword...cmon, we are seeing even those on servers quite a lot (at least on EU i encounter swordboarders with transitional, sometimes even better). The thing is, every single spec has the option to play with full plate, the fact you dont do it does not mean it is overpowered.
Yesterday i pulled out my tripple heirloomed gothic with bevor and had quite a good score on some maps, bare on mind i use that occasionally, mostly running around in something softer. Not to speak that with the pierce bow i got shot for half HP with ONE arrow, in tripple loomed plate, bodyshot...
To all complaining about tincans, i got this short guide:
1) buy plate armor
2) wear it
3) get blamed for no skill
And i dare you to call lets say Georges noob, he is running round with flamberge and plate, and damn, everytime i see him i got shivers :-D
From my point of view (played like 8gens 2her, one gen shielder, cav and archer, so i have small overview), swordboarders whining about 2hers should really l2p. Yes, there are some weapons designed for shieldcrushing, but cmon, what you expect when a huge axe hits your wooden shield?
The only thing that concerns me is the fact polearms seem to have slightly higher dmg than 2hers, in many cases higher speed even, the stun and range outreaching 2hers (not taking flamberge as usual 2her). Why is that? Why faster, more dmging, longer at the same time?
One comparision: GLA vs Masterwork Highland Claymore, claymore has 2 more speed, less range, same dmg as not loomed GLA...at least swing one + bonus against shield. I did not see reasoning of nerfing sword dmg, but the more i cannot understand what made the dev let polearms as they are now.
Some combination of gear and weaponry will always look over the edge, but afterall its all about learning how to counter different people/playstyle/gear setup.
Glaive has no shield bonus, less speed and less damage.
Poleaxes and GLA might have shield bonus and GLA has superior damage. But GLA is also way shorter (Outranged by a few 1handers I'm sure) and has a blunt stab of 15.
And I'm not saying DGS is better ... just balanced.
i don't really know how people can be comfortable in really heavy armor. you trade mobility (a lot of mobility...) for say 15 armor points. and with all the pierce/blunt spam, imo is WAY better quicker moves, less time to reinforce or hunt down runners, the speed you need to have to avoid being surrounded.
i have a lordly studded leather over mail (50 body 17 legs 13.5 kilos) and is my highest weight limit i can afford when adding claymore+mallet or shield weight with 6 ath.
i really can't get why some people go around with loomed full plate when 2 placed morningstar/corbin swings kill you anyway.
only reason to go plate is when the ranged spam is that much. and again... darts and javelins are pierce... so.
2hers are faster than 1hers quite often. It's depressing.
Stamina mechanism would stop the pointless spam, but it's not wanted by 90% of the community, whatever the reasons...
I'm a sword and board and I do fine. My main issue is with some oddly advantageous animations/glitches(?) with the occasional weapon, but those are bound to occur occasionally. The bec, I think, has some sort of glitch were it appears to be drawing back for a strike when it's actually continuing the previous feint. May just be me, though, so I don't make a big deal about it. And hey, that's what right click is for amiright? :wink:
but from the looks of things now i seemed outranged by some polearms.
It's about time and should have been this way from the very beginning. Yes, it's a stupid "realism" argument, but ffs they're POLEARMS. A guy with a spear can outdistance any 2h'd sword easily in terms of lethal effective range.
2h are faster than 1hander
simply 1hander think that they can outspam 2h only by click click, + have shield so 90% of 1h+shield suck
thats why in eu, top 1hander are 5-10 ppl and all other who top score are 2h-/pole .
if we make here a list of 100 top player in eu crpg, 90 are 2h/pole/archer 10 are 1hander
2hers are faster than 1hers quite often. It's depressing.
uhm where is the cavalry?Lol you forgot Kinngrimm... and Vicious...? :P
anyway my personal list of the most skilled 1h/shielders or 1h without shield is:
- IG_Saint (don't know if still use 1h shield)
- DimaUrban
- Phazh
- LoR_The_Grey
- Kurosch
- pompom (don't know if he still play)
- UGLYBASTARD
- Legio_Lars (cold as ice. not a supereliteskilled player but many times man of the match in the shogunate tournament)
Yeah, I've tried to bring the same argument and use it pro stamina mechanism, but I was only ridiculed as a noob, although I am mostly 2h myself. It is too easy to grab a long weapon, jump around a bit and never stop swinging. It also gets you fairly high in the scoreboard.That only works till you run into a remotely skilled player, in which case the jumping around will only make you look like an idiot as you get cut down in mid air. Stamina would change too many aspects of this game. I spent 3 of the previous 5 hours dueling one person. We were averaging 2 minute duels with our longest duels being just over 5 minutes. It was some of the most fun I've ever had in warband. So how the fuck can you balance Stamina for such a thing?
Lol you forgot Kinngrimm... and Vicious...? :P
That only works till you run into a remotely skilled player, in which case the jumping around will only make you look like an idiot as you get cut down in mid air. Stamina would change too many aspects of this game. I spent 3 of the previous 5 hours dueling one person. We were averaging 2 minute duels with our longest duels being just over 5 minutes. It was some of the most fun I've ever had in warband. So how the fuck can you balance Stamina for such a thing?
Yeah that explains why i get spammed when i have my mw 2h? and the fact i then pick up a 1h and can spam people easyli with 1 wpf ? yeah i see.....
1h weapons require you to be close, aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill.1h left swing, swings high. On even ground, it will hit an opponents head when, with the same camera orientation, any other type of weapon would be a body shot. I've been one shot by 1h headshots before while wearing a helmet, it happens less often than 2h of course, but its enough to show how your statement is wrong.
1h weapons require you to be close, aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill.
1h left swing, swings high. On even ground, it will hit an opponents head when, with the same camera orientation, any other type of weapon would be a body shot. I've been one shot by 1h headshots before while wearing a helmet, it happens less often than 2h of course, but its enough to show how your statement is wrong.
1h weapons require you to be close, aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill.
1h weapons require you to be close, aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill.
1h left swing, swings high. On even ground, it will hit an opponents head when, with the same camera orientation, any other type of weapon would be a body shot. I've been one shot by 1h headshots before while wearing a helmet, it happens less often than 2h of course, but its enough to show how your statement is wrong.
Yeah, that's exactly the same as spamming a 2hander or polearm. Good point.... :rolleyes:Neither you nor myself stated anything about spamming in either of our first posts. You specifically stated "aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill." To which I directly refuted those two points. You don't have to aim for the head, left swings innately swing high so that with a normal camera orientation, you will hit your opponent in the head. Hitting in the head causes more damage than hitting in the body, often times you can 1shot a person by hitting them in the head, especially with a pick.
I'm a sword and board with 8 shield and 160WP with the fastest single handed sword (Nordic) and people in full plate/black armor can STILL helicopter around and eviscerate me with literally no chance to attack back between swings.2h/pole are not faster if you don't have a shield.
Why is this so? 2h and polearms already do drastically greater damage than single handed weapons (rightfully so) and have greater range, so why must they be faster?
The proof of this that every high-roller on every CRPG server is either rolling cav or 2h/polearm as it's main predator the javelin got nerfed (Probably under complaints from the plate wearing helicopters that something could actually kill them).
So, either un-nerf throwing (preferable, as they weren't OP in the first place, having little ammo and being easy to kill close up) or slow 2h and pole arms considerably so you can't swing a 10ft poleaxe faster than a small sword.
Vicious? you mad? i said the most skilled shielders... not the most equiped.hmm cool story but a bit wrong.k i dont like that italian facist( :mrgreen:).but he s skilled and not spamming he jsut attacks in times so he s skilled enough to find your weak time and overhead is most effective attack direction especially with a pick.
cmon vicious can't feint, he knows only 2 attack directions. left swing and overhead.
take out his lordly plate, lordly mittens, lordly helm, lordly greaves, loomed pick and loomed steel shield... should be funny to see.
Lol you forgot Kinngrimm... and Vicious...? :P
Neither you nor myself stated anything about spamming in either of our first posts. You specifically stated "aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill." To which I directly refuted those two points. You don't have to aim for the head, left swings innately swing high so that with a normal camera orientation, you will hit your opponent in the head. Hitting in the head causes more damage than hitting in the body, often times you can 1shot a person by hitting them in the head, especially with a pick.
But if you want to talk about spamming, sure.
There are zero Polearms/Two-Handers that (without footwork) can be swung consecutively without the shielder being able to retaliate. What I'm saying is that if you take footwork out of the picture, a Two-Hander is standing directly in front of a shielder and neither are moving, As long as the shielder has good enough timing, it is mechanically impossible for the Two-Hander to swing twice in a row without the shielder having the ability to retaliate. This is an irrefutable statement. Current game mechanics don't allow for such an occurrence to happen without a significant difference in player timing.
So anyone complaining about spamming is either complaining about something else, like back peddlers or rabbits(those jumpy fucks), or they truly need to learn to play.
derp
I agree on the game mechanics and about the footwork. However, if you have 30 or more ping than the person you are fighting, the register of the hit before you can swing back is delayed and if the person swings a second time he may be able to get a hit in before you get your return swing in after the block. This problem becomes exacerbated the higher the ping difference and makes fighting as a NA in EU or vice versa very difficult where you end up relying on a lot of footwork and repetitive swinging without blocking.
hmm cool story but a bit wrong.k i dont like that italian facist( :mrgreen:).but he s skilled and not spamming he jsut attacks in times so he s skilled enough to find your weak time and overhead is most effective attack direction especially with a pick.
Forgot Olwen/ Lamhban and Merc_Varyag ?
cyber is really good.
the point is: really good players like them will never cry nerfs about 1handed as they steamroll anyway the other players with their skill while using the best TEAMWORK build. 1h shield.
Since we are talking about good shielders, there is not much that would make me turn the other way on the battlefield, but when i see Ramses i usualy advance in the other direction :D
uhm i fought vicious in duel several times. i'm not a good dueler. vicious only took me 15-20 hits to break his steel shield with a morningstar/axe. then he goes down.
i fought several other shielders. they feint, they do good footwork. when their shield break, they know how to manual block. vicious isn't one of these.
well i get you two mercs think the only good players are other mercs but there are a lot more out there :P
yeah olwen is way better than vicious but the players i have listed can match olwen and some of them actually fight better.
oh and yes. i listed 2 mercs. one is Kurosch and the other was cyber now in the fallens. those two are in my personal topten shielders. and cyber is really good.
the point is: really good players like them will never cry nerfs about 1handed as they steamroll anyway the other players with their skill while using the best TEAMWORK build. 1h shield.
... childish babbling ...
have fun Q_Q and even more Q_Q when on next step of shogun tournament we gonna rape your ass
... childish babbling ...
Kingrimm surely is worth being mentioned too...
In general their just isnt enough good 1h. But whenever u meat one, you instantly know it will be a tuff fight.
Kendo allrdy filled up some names...and he is right.
I repeat myself: 1h got really viable, its just lacking enough good players.
Thats why average players keep whining about balance instead of rethinking their builds or visiting eu 3.
P.S. Thats what kingrimm and many of the mentioned 1hers do.... ;-)
"we"? you're not a merc anymore isn't it? heard they fired you :lol:
see ya in duel servers then... as you're not the ball&chain of a skilled clan anymore :wink:
EDIT: oh and i still remember your GTXs at late night on duel servers. see ya 'round kid :wink:
no balls to admit eh ? ahahahah
ps: i am On Merc_ so you can QQ more :)
Tbh i dont lose vs many 1h-shielders and vicious is one of them.
But im interested in a fraps of both of you fighting so we can flame one of you after that :p
PS: EU3 is your friend regardless your build.
Since we are talking about good shielders, there is not much that would make me turn the other way on the battlefield, but when i see Ramses i usualy advance in the other direction :D
2h and poles are OP because 90% of shielders are fucking noobs that can't manual block. L2P
2h and poles are OP because 90% of shielders are fucking noobs that can't manual block. L2PSo it needs a lot work to be a good shielder but only basic knowledge to be a successful 2h/polearm lad?
2h and poles are OP because 90% of shielders are fucking noobs that can't manual block. L2P
2h and poles are OP because 90% of shielders are fucking noobs that can't manual block. L2PYup.
Seems like 90% of 2h/poles can't manual block either.
Haha Truly, Leave em alone, 2h plus polearms are fine dammit
now one handers, we need a buff :D
Agree 1h should have the same dmg and speed as 2h/pole users being able to block all attacks by pressing rmb clicks makes sense....
O hush you!, Thoough, why did shields get a nerf? I dont remember that ever being complained about
:shock:
Really?
Granted there's been a lull in it, but pre-patch there was dozens of shield-hating posts/threads daily. I think you just didn't pay them any attention because you were always too busy going 1h/no shield to notice since it wouldn't have affected you. :P
forcefield still exist even if it's smaller.
Besides you being a known elitist and avid shield hater (really hater of anything non-2h it seems like) I don't notice a forcefield on certain shields at all anymore.
I use an elite cav or a brown heater shield and they are both nigh worthless with 5-6 shield skill vs any ranged with halfway decent aim as I'm constantly dying from Achilles ankle shots, or very very tip of the helmet headshots. Of course, I do still notice bucklers blocking arrows really well so.... I dunno, maybe it's just certain shields as I said.
... Of course, I do still notice bucklers blocking arrows really well so.... I dunno, maybe it's just certain shields as I said.
Yeah, sometimes you have a lucky streak and you can catch multiple incomming arrows, but then another times your block is a bit off-center and fizzzz you are dead.
I'm an archer and the force field does exist, but properly now. I can tell who has a high shield skill and who doesn't. If they don't, I can shoot them in the ankles. If they do, it scoops up the arrows, which only makes sense because someone who knows how to use a shield also knows how to lower it when an arrow is coming in low (or raise if high). It's not really a forcefield, just there is no animation to show a higher skilled player character making that type of adjustment.
yeah... history tells that soldiers used to bring a magnetic dinner plate to counter arrows by catching em on the fly.What fictional history did your professor teach?
want to block arrows?
Shielders aren't supposed to be able to get kills, they are there to support/protect teammates. Leave the killing up to the 2H/archers.
I play mainly 2H with a 1H/shield alt and I don't think that 2H are OP at all. Shielders aren't supposed to be able to get kills, they are there to support/protect teammates. Leave the killing up to the 2H/archers. I do agree partly with you though, spamming is definitely OP. The first 20 of my kills were spam kills, and I still do spam sometimes, especially against shielders because of that feeling of hopelessness when you face one solo. Implementation of fatigue for both 2H and sheilders would definitely fix this (no spamming, no turtleing).
Well... I dunno, I consider 6 shield skill "high" but perhaps I'm wrong there. /shrug. All I know is that I have zero chance to see the arrow coming at me, tell where it's going to hit, and adjust my shield that direction. In 3rd person the arrow/bolt/throwing weapon travels too fast for me to tell and my character is in the way of my view 90% of the time. In 1st person mode the projectile is still moving too fast for me to tell where it's going to hit. I wave my shield up and down as fast as I can with my mouse in the hopes that I'll get lucky and "catch" the bullet on the fly.
Still, 6 shield skill seems "high" to me and I get shot in the ankles or above the shield all the time but I digress.
What fictional history did your professor teach?
What fictional history did your professor teach?
:rolleyes:
O if only I could go to the european servers, and show them some dam good one handing
No need to worry.
If I were you Man of War, I would be more concerned with showing the folks in Mount and Musket how to properly one hand :lol: they could use a few more of your demonstrations!
fail to get the sarcasm in it?
suggestion:
http://www.lifetutor.co.uk/
You don't look at the arrows, you look at how he is holding the bow/crossbow.
Skill or no skill fact is that 2h is faster, has more reach and dam. So be it but what is really annoying is 2h glitching hits trough shields and instant hits after block. Players who abuse those bugs regulary know what i am talking about.
1. Animations make them faster.
2.i am talking about move when 2h is facehugging you and hitting right trough your shield. Deniers are usually the worst abusers.
1. Animations make them faster.
2.i am talking about move when 2h is facehugging you and hitting right trough your shield. Deniers are usually the worst abusers.
1) Two-handers and polearm players are not inherently faster as a class than one-handers. The players tend to be more experienced and just plain better players. Give ... Siiem .. what not a shield, and they would kick you ass too.
Woah woah woah woaaaaah... if you're talking about kicking his teammates' ass from behind then sure, but otherwise you waaayy off base bro:D
Aemalius maybe you should learn some more...
People play 2h becouse this class is strongest (easyest to play) class. Easyest way to get some kills is to grab a huge axe and start swinging.
And dont start with the olwen goretooth vicious and the scoreboard story again.
For me it's not about nerfing somebody, i just want people to admit that 2h is easymode not sword'n'broad.
If 4 guys attacking you only thing you can do is block with your shield.
If 4 guys attacking you only thing you can do is block with your shield.No. You can also run away or just kill em.
If 4 guys attacking you only thing you can do is block with your shield.nope
Aemalius maybe you should learn some more...
People play 2h becouse this class is strongest (easyest to play) class. Easyest way to get some kills is to grab a huge axe and start swinging.
And dont start with the olwen goretooth vicious and the scoreboard story again.
For me it's not about nerfing somebody, i just want people to admit that 2h is easymode not sword'n'broad.
1) Two-handers and polearm players are not inherently faster as a class than one-handers. The players tend to be more experienced and just plain better players. Give Phyrex, Siiem, Jormglorm, vMega and what not a shield, and they would kick you ass too. There are just some people currently playing twohanders or polearms that are extremely skilled. This has nothing to do with class.
Ohhh, 2handers and polearm players are just inherently better. Like that guy with a 4:1 k/d ratio who literally does nothing but run in a circle looking straight down at the ground mashing the attack button. This guy is just an inherently better player. And the guy with the great maul who only walks forward while doing overhand attacks. He's just inherently better, don't you see? The fellow in full plate armor wielding a bec, no not that guy, the other guy. No the other guy with the bec. Yes I realize there are 12 guys on the server with that exact loadout but I'm talking about that one guy right there by the tree. Yes him. The reason he's using that is he's just a better player. He's doing it for the challenge. As are all the other guys in that same gear. They just want a challenge because using a 1hander and getting average scores is just too easy for him.
I really hate that weak argument. 2handers and polearms do not appear strong because such awesome players use them. Top players use them because they are the strongest weapons. That's how every game in the history of gaming has worked. This game is no different. Nor do you have to be good to benefit from these weapons. Polearms and 2handers have the highest skill ceiling but also the highest skill floor. In exchange for having less room for error on defense, you gain far more room for error on offense. This is why they're also a good newb weapon for players who tend to not block anyway. They require significantly less aim a general need less hits to get a kill.
rage textwall of BS and huff puffery
and make 1h as strong as polearms
2h/pole: focus on manual block, dodge ranged, footwork to not be circled and ganked, timed attacks to defeat those "hardmode" steel shielders...
in one word? EASYMODE.
sword and board: manual block... why?! RMB. ranged! dodge? naah RMB. footwork! nah... steel shield + RMB. archers left and right! huscarl shield + RMB.
this is real HARDMODE.
These would be called "2hers". :P
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Imo it's perfectly balanced atm.
2h/pole: focus on manual block, dodge ranged, footwork to not be circled and ganked, timed attacks to defeat those "hardmode" steel shielders...
in one word? EASYMODE.
sword and board: manual block... why?! RMB. ranged! dodge? naah RMB. footwork! nah... steel shield + RMB. archers left and right! huscarl shield + RMB.
this is real HARDMODE.
TL;DR
1h+shield: Easy to learn, hard to master
2h+pole: medium to learn, not so hard to master
Archers: (because i need one cheap comment in this thread) Easy mode :D
So, we can agree that everything is hard to master in it's own way. :P
hahaha, using that word on this forum is like pissing in the pacific ocean with the intent of creating a flood somewhere.
corrado if i saw you running around with your morningstar you didnt block much. Not because you can't block but you simply didnt have to. You just onehitted anything in your path. I call this easymode.
Better protection agains ranged you say, maybe yes but all 2h can carrie shield as well.
Shields nerfed, archers nerfed, throwing nerfed - all those nerfs were actually buff to 2h.
I'd be more than willing to duel any NA shielders that think 2hers are op. I'd use only a 1h weapon, with which I have 1 wpf, and they can use sword and board. Of course, when I win, you have to post in this thread that you no longer think 2h/poles are op. 13 pages of this shit is rather disgusting.
I'd be more than willing to duel any NA shielders that think 2hers are op. I'd use only a 1h weapon, with which I have 1 wpf, and they can use sword and board. Of course, when I win, you have to post in this thread that you no longer think 2h/poles are op. 13 pages of this shit is rather disgusting.
I'd be more than willing to duel any NA shielders that think 2hers are op. I'd use only a 1h weapon, with which I have 1 wpf, and they can use sword and board. Of course, when I win, you have to post in this thread that you no longer think 2h/poles are op. 13 pages of this shit is rather disgusting.
we're talking about how weapons perform NOW. not six month ago when morningstar had crushthru, i had a level 42 gen10 wpfstacker str 2handed with 13PS and 197 wpf.
i really played that OP build but that was WAY too much. now things are really different. morningstar is gone, barmace too. OP builds are gone, high level builds are gone.
and please the last 3 patches nerfd 2h every time.
1- morningstar blockcrush removed
2- barmace and ironmace blockcrush removed
2a- 2h lolstab animation changed
2b- 2h thrust damage nerfed by something like 25-30%
3- highland claymore length reduced.
then if you want to talk about REAL FACTS lets talk... otherwise we're done.
I'd be more than willing to duel any NA shielders that think 2hers are op. I'd use only a 1h weapon, with which I have 1 wpf, and they can use sword and board. Of course, when I win, you have to post in this thread that you no longer think 2h/poles are op. 13 pages of this shit is rather disgusting.
A duel is a very special situation and not representative of a real battle. Fact is, if you swing a long weapon with high damage in a battle, you are likely to get more kills than with a short weapon with lower damage.
Therefore: with 2h/pole, you kill more, with 1h+shield, you live longer.
What i am talking about is get rid of 2h bugged attacks and by that give shielders a chance.
Give shielders a chance? Shielder is the easiest class to play by far..
Before these changes 2haders had exactly same arguments like they do now. And all the op smartasses were saying that it is perfectly balanced.
-"behind the corner" hit must be fixed same goes for shield piercing glitch.
- Axe damage heavely reduce when you hit with the wooden part.
- Hammers overhead midswing direction change must go.
All these are bugs and must get fixed.
- that's a polearms issue. 2h axes are really short. anyway i agree that you need a perfect positioning when hitting. but to balance that as they will be more difficult to use, raise cut damage.
It is not about who can live longer. Hell you live even longer if you are naked and run to the other side.
What i am talking about is get rid of 2h bugged attacks and by that give shielders a chance.
Not trying to offend here, but if you can't do better than average as a shielder you really just need to practice more.The thing is, Ironclaw is probably one of the best 1h+shielder ive ever seen. Even better than Kinngrimm imo and really not average.
ptx and Keshian you got the wrong impression here i am not complainin but trying to explain something.
"give a chance" - read lose the bugs.
Thank you BlackMilk but you must confuse me with somebody else. I consider myself average shielder.
Thank you BlackMilk but you must confuse me with somebody else. I consider myself average shielder.It's not usual for me to get killed over and over again by an average shielder.
It's not usual for me to get killed over and over again by an average shielder.
Indeed, mostly you just get killed by below-average shielders..?
Ho?
And the much better reach due to animations...
2h are fine, pole need cut nerf or stun removed when wte, 1h pierce/blunt nerf
As far as i see the whole s/s (sword[or1h]/shield) vs 2h(or poleaxe[im excluding spears and pikes cause i think they are no problem to beat 1on1]) discussions i would say theres a good ammount of arguments for both sides that are true. however i still find 2h OP and ill gladly explain why.
whenever a s/s user QQs about helicopters, the 2h community goes like: lol a decent player can sneak hits in pretty well and outsmart the helicopter with ease!
- theres the first mistake in my opinion. you compare a (in your opinion) bad s/s to a bad 2h and tell him a good s/s would win against a bad 2h. but what about a decent helicopter? ive had fights where good 2h players could hit behind my shield pretty well by countless retard-movements.
it is mentioned to outmaneuver the 2hander to win, while if he is good he will easily take advantage of superior speed and weapon range until your shield breaks, or try to helicopter behind your shield with hiltthrust- attack types.
i would NOT say a helicopter is better than an s/s player by spamming alone, but its about possible attack-moves! while the only viable attacks for a 1handed weapon are the basic 4 attack types and feinting, the 2handed has much more to offer.
with a 2hander you can hiltthrust with left and right swings (exploit thats being treated as a feature), 5k mousespeed helicopter (tried that on s/s and i didnt work because my character turnes too slow for some reason[maybe cause of shield?], but even if he did its kinda useless with a 90* length weapon), helicopter-feint (unreadable), helicopter-thrust (exploit treated as a feature [also useless with 90* length 1handed]) and i also found it easier to chamber with 2h +you have the 4 normal attack types.
(*) im using the 90 length as a basic range for 1h because most 1handed are around 90 and counting only 100 length weapons would mean the others are useless.
-the probably worst argument is the "shield is immune to ranged!" one. 2h players can grab shields or crossbows or throwing weapons or bows too ... plus evading arrows is not really that hard with a speedy character, while my shield is already half broken in the time i need to approach.
-point is that 2h players seem to think it is fair that they own in duels because it is hard to play with manual blocking. while i agree with the thought behind this argument, i totally disagree on the argument itself.
a 1h with no shield should rock in duels cause youre not being hindered in your speed/movement like you would be with a shield. you also could switch to 2h swing with your 1h to do decent damage if you see the opporunity for a good strike or use your left hand for punching, shoving, grabbing, dual wield etc.
but a 2handed weapon should by no means be good in duels, its totally unrealistic that a 2h can win vs a shielder and anybody that ever fought in a steel-weapon skirmish in reality would agree on that. you simply move point blank and he cant do shit, shove him with your shield and stab him to death. 2handers ARE support weapons and not duel weapons.
we need a dual wield possibility in this game....
1h/dual wield should be better vs shield, shield should be better vs 2h and 2h should be better vs 1h/dual wield (cause you cant parry a 2h with a 1h) that would be realistic and fair if you ask me. atm its only about which team has the most high-gear/high-level/high-helicopter 2h's and that team usually wins.
all in all i think the balance is not too bad, but when it comes to skilled player battles or pro gaming 2h is simply OP because it has much more possibilities to offer with nearly no drawback at all (for a skilled player). + skill system on crpg is unbalanced cause 2h max-agi builds are too fast and still have good damage while you would hardly go through any armor with a 1h max-agi build.
just my 5 cent
please DONT reply before you read the whole post, spare me your nonsense
Yeah, very much i think about this whole thing too.
A simple shieldbash or shieldpush and the 2handed-weapon wielding opponent would be beaten.
You can see it at some positions of these 3 Videos, where the "Viking" is just running against
the 2handed-wielder and does hidden stanbs and slashes out of his shield.
Not a little chance for a 2handed-guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpu2NRg-HEg
ok lets put it simple.In theory yes, but ingame you got stuck in nearly everthing while the "bad" competitors can swing quite often through solid objects (teammates, walls etc.)
1h/shield: ... good in close quarters
2handed: ...good in close quarters.
clearly, things are not how they should be. 1h/shield pays almost-immunity to ranged and clusterfucks ...It is no almost-immunity, but more a partly-immunity.
The problem is in the fact that one handlers are so much shorter that you would think their sweet spot would be facehugging the enemy. However you'll find your weapon bounces, hardcored in the game. Poles and 2h are able to cheat this by spinning and swinging at the ground. 1h can reform this cheat as well, however I still find their weapons bounce more often when pulling this maneuver resulting in death, or the pol or 2h have longer reach so they hit your feet first. Recommendation is to adjust poles and 2h sweet spots to not be the whole blade so they too will bounce like 1h when not in optimal range.
Fix the miadao it does nearly full damage swings at any range.....
Poles and 2h are able to cheat this by spinning and swinging at the ground.
Problems with my ISP leave me stuck playing on ru_crpg. I dare you to go there and do good with a 2h or polearm vs their shielders.
Le wut? 1h sweetspot is the max range of their swings. (which actually have a very decent range, a competent 1h user with a 100 range sword can outrange any 2h shorter than 110 range (except for 2h stabs) or polearms shorter than 120.)
Like I was trying to state, pol and 2h swinging at the same range as a 1h sweet spot are too close in amount of damage and wiffing. This sort of thing should be ratios instead of hardcore lengths. So, let say 2/3 of a blade is effective with damage loss as get closer to the hilt. This way at closer distances, 2h and pol will do much less or no damage compared to 1h.
@Xant - 4-5 swings with 7 PS? No way. Far less, i'd say. Except for heavily armored strength stackers.
In theory yes, but ingame you got stuck in nearly everthing while the "bad" competitors can swing quite often through solid objects (teammates, walls etc.)
Huh?
It is no almost-immunity, but more a partly-immunity.
A 2hand weapon is quite lone, and now try to imagine to use it in a narrow hallway or between your teammates.
Does it still look like a good option for close quarter combat?
shielders shouldn't look for kills but should cover pikemen and 2handers while they flank or crush with a frontal charge.
alright 5 points.nonsense. Take a scimitar and a round shield and you'll do fine, no matter what level you are. I had some 10-0 runs with my 1h alt at level 20.
1.shielders arent effective untill u reach lvl 27-30.
And why do you think a two hand weapon should be good in close quanters, because it made no sense to me.
3.shielders powers dont realy show up in a 1v1, but if u get 15 shielders vs 15 2h/pole in een cwar ul notice who is winning.-tried it already? did you mix shield breakers and hammers into the 2h/pole setup? did you mix throwers into the shielders?
4. the shield grands u protection of arrows and throwin while 2handers dont if u go group up with archers and defend them ul notice all the 2h cav polearm are shot down if the archers are protected well.-how do you protect an archer with your shield vs cavalry? i always get charged down and killed unless i have a polearm too, to stop the horse. IF spamming one and the same unit was a viable tactic in a fight, the only unit i could think of where this would actually work in fact IS cavalry on open field maps.
5. now ur complaining 2handers get to the side of u. i got some tips to stop that for you.-who complained about 2handers getting to the side of him? i complained about helicopter-jumps and hilt-thrusts that go behind shields. id never complain about silly stuff like being unable to have a 360° forcefield with a kiteshield....
either get an higher sensetivity
higher agi so u dont have to facehug them but so that u can switch for long range to suddenly walkin forward and devastate ur 2hander with overheads.-huh? so walking forward and overhead swing means autowin vs any non-shielder? didnt know that.
1.shielders arent effective untill u reach lvl 27-30.
2h are damage dealers. only thing that matters in close quarters or open field is the weapon you choose. if i use a 70-80 length weapon, i'll be more comfortable in narrow corridors or tight spaces. if i want to use a 120 length weapon in tight spaces and easly get stuck with overheads or side swings, is my fault. nowhere is written that 1h/shielders should overwhelm 2handers in close quarters. yes.. you can lure a flamberge spammer in a tight space but this don't mean that all 2handers shouldn't be able to fight in tight walls.
Buy Scimi. Spam leftswing. See profit.
2H are in no more way overpowered as its so easy to get good results with spamshieldbuilds now.
Buy Scimi. Spam leftswing. See profit.
2H are in no more way overpowered as its so easy to get good results with spamshieldbuilds now.
My problem with 2h and polearms is that range is ignored. If someone has a long ass spear, sure, they should beat a dagger. But if that dagger is inside 4 feet away from the point of the spear and 2 feet from you, you are going to die from dagger thrust while your spear shaft just rubs their arm.
It would seem more logical if 2H weapons were good at medium to long range in melee. Once the combat is at/near extreme short range(i.e. in your face) it should be better to have shorter weapons.
However, M&B has always been silly in this regard, 2H weapons/pole-arms are superior as long as you can block, regardless of range. (Apart from range defense.)
this is a fact. Also there is a whole clan where the uniform is:The Gay Order
- Elite scimitar
- Huscarl/Norman/Knightly shield
- Barbutte
100 golds to who guess the name.
ive seen 1h topping boards today too
not as many as 2h of course but... this is how people usually play warband multiplayer;
1) Either start as archer or 1h/shield or switch to them after being owned and unable to manual block
2) Become really good at their chosen class
3) Go to duel servers to become even better
4) Some decide to go 2h/pole for more "challenge" (not saying 1h is easy to be good at, just easier to play without manual block)
5) The players who have been playing for some time and have put time into duel servers and learning new tricks now top score boards
This is how I see it, or it could all be bs.
No, this is a terrible opinion, this obviously proves that it is imbalanced, you can't outplay someone who is faster, more powerful and out ranges you.
you get autoblock, we dont
you get to block arrows, we dontyou get to facehug, we dont (as easily)
you can stand and soak up dmg with your shield, we can't
so you have your advantages, we have ours.
Fixed. As a 2h/polearm player I have to be honest: 2hers can facehug the best out of all the weapon types in the game. 1hers glance, polearms glance. 2hers lightsaber through people like butter at nose-to-nose-touching facehug range.
Fixed. As a 2h/polearm player I have to be honest: 2hers can facehug the best out of all the weapon types in the game. 1hers glance, polearms glance. 2hers lightsaber through people like butter at nose-to-nose-touching facehug range.
Fixed. As a 2h/polearm player I have to be honest: 2hers can facehug the best out of all the weapon types in the game. 1hers glance, polearms glance. 2hers lightsaber through people like butter at nose-to-nose-touching facehug range.Honestly, have you ever tried that? Because I cannot do it with my longsword, really...
2h/polearms hit your midsection, why don't you test this in duel, just see where the basic swings land you'll see I'm rightWell, actually you still can hit someone's head with a 2h/pole side swing, but it's more difficult, since your camera has to look upwards.
Honestly, have you ever tried that? Because I cannot do it with my longsword, really...
On a topic. People who see me on NA servers know I'm playing as a hand-and-a-half sword user most part of the time. Yesterday I tried a new 1h+shiled build on my STF character. Since I only created it a day ago initially I did not have any money except for the original 10k you get after skipping the fun. During the night, I first used equip worth 9k and then switched to 16k. Even with this equip I managed to get a KDR > 3 on the battle server even though in most cases I just charged straight ahead. I can hardly imagine that I could get anywhere close to that while using the same cheap stuff on my 2hander (and usually I'm way more careful when playing as a 2h guy), and you, NA guys, probably know what I'm capable of.
BTW, surprisingly, with 7 ps the only kind of armor that my regular scimitar (30c only!!!) glanced from was the black plate.
Bottomline: 1hander is still the best choice for both veterans and new players, especially in terms of price to value ratio. Given the fact that we still don't have NA strat server, I'm seriously considering switching my main to 1h+shield (at least until we get one), because I can hardly block anything manually on the laggy crappy EU server.
Fixed. As a 2h/polearm player I have to be honest: 2hers can facehug the best out of all the weapon types in the game. 1hers glance, polearms glance. 2hers lightsaber through people like butter at nose-to-nose-touching facehug range.
Gorath, I've a mission for you. You'll enjoy it.
Take a balanced 2h build [your build is, iirc], grab a great maul. Block once, then castor swing Hilt-slash lightsabre people.
Funniest shit ever. It won't glance, even if you start the swing touching them. The likelihood of knockdown is hilarious, and as soon as a big hit happens you can forever-overhead crush them unless they get a quick swing off after being hit.
I've never felt dirtier as a player.