Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?

[Rumblood]

I would also argue that unbalanced 2h weapons (especially Spiked Mace comes to mind, with its 99 speed) would need to be slowed down. It feels pretty silly when I see people with 2h maces attack with them like they were made of paper, since they are so front-heavy they'd be anything but quick, and already have the advantage of knockdown.

Spiked mace is 70 length, making it just a little over 25% longer than the 1 hand hammer and only 50% more weight except it is swung with TWO hands. If anything, it should be faster.

[UrLukur]

Because they are, OP.

But, 1h + Shield can do just fine. I use Italian Sword and Knightly Kite Shield, i have just 130 wpf, and i don't get outspammed, except by chambering katana of lameness. My shield last long enough that i had to manual block maybe 5 times in 6 hours i played since i returned. I have non-loomed shield and i don't sheathe it against shield-breaking weapons. I have shield skill of 5. In other words, learn to play.

[MouthnHoof]

No, this is a terrible opinion, this obviously proves that it is imbalanced, you can't outplay someone who is faster, more powerful and out ranges you.

You left out the factor that when blocking, a 2H/pole need to do the correct out of 4 possible blocks and it interferes a bit with either mouse or key movements. 1H+shield just click RMB regardless of anything.

With high shield skill 100 speed shields can last very long - do not turtle against axes or simply put the shield away and manual block. There used to be a feature in warband where the damage to shields was reduced in the first second after you raised it. I do not know if it is still in the current version.

[UrLukur]

There used to be a feature in warband where the damage to shields was reduced in the first second after you raised it. I do not know if it is still in the current version.

It is not, sadly.

[Vibe]

These threads are REALLY starting to piss me off.

eviscerate me with literally no chance to attack back between swings.

Why is this so?

helicopter around

There you go, you answered it yourself. Learn to blaim yourself for your deaths and not the so called "OP" weapon types.
The game is fucking balanced.
Now you need to deal with your lack of 1h+shield skill and proper footwork. Wake the fuck up.

[Vibe]

stupid double post D:

[Fluffy_Muffin]

Hello there, i have played my first generation as a shielder/throw, then i played 8 gens as a dedicatand  2h and now this gen i am playing pure 1h/shield.

As a former dedicated 2h now shielder all i can say to this topic is: l2p

Now this may offend you wich was not my intention, it may sound elitist wich was also not my intention, so let me elaborate:

Let say two players are roughly the same lvl. One is a 2h, the other is a shielder. No matter how fast the 2h swings if the shielder swings after his shield was struck the 2h will have to block or die, he cannot outspam you.

Now you will probably think: What the hell is this guy talking about, i was outspammed countless times even when i did that.

Now let me tell you why:

Superior footwork - mostly happens when you are trying to face hug an enemy, instead of fleeing he dances around you spamming and hits you on the sides or on the back
Range - outranges you with his weapon, this is also footwork, jump backwards slash while you try to retaliate and such
Bad reaction time - You waited too long with your swing after the block
Bad fient time - Fient after block against a spammer is a no-no, just atack him

The speed of the 2h-s weapon and the ammount of his agility is irelevant. If you use smart footwork and listen to your shield (yes listen, hear the sound of the block, let it be your "atack now!" sound) no matter how fast he is he cannot outspam you. Also turn up your mouse sensitivity so you can keep track with the guys that will try to circle around you.

[Malaclypse]

Overall, this really is a case of PEBKAC

Gorath put it best, I think.

[rustyspoon]

It is a common misconception that shields reduce swing speed. They don't. Shields DO reduce movement speed which makes it easy for a dedicated 2 hander to circle around you if you're not careful.

Saying that 1-h and shield is worse than 2h or pole is laughable. As someone who plays 1-h and shield a lot it's WAY easier. With only 15 agi I never get outspammed. It more sounds to me like the OP is turtling up and his opponents are taking advantage of it. Turtling up a shielder is a good way to die.

[King Berend]

I'm a sword and board with 8 shield and 160WP with the fastest single handed sword (Nordic) and people in full plate/black armor can STILL helicopter around and eviscerate me with literally no chance to attack back between swings.

Why is this so? 2h and polearms already do drastically greater damage than single handed weapons (rightfully so) and have greater range, so why must they be faster?

The proof of this that every high-roller on every CRPG server is either rolling cav or 2h/polearm as it's main predator the javelin got nerfed (Probably under complaints from the plate wearing helicopters that something could actually kill them).

So, either un-nerf throwing (preferable, as they weren't OP in the first place, having little ammo and being easy to kill close up) or slow 2h and pole arms considerably so you can't swing a 10ft poleaxe faster than a small sword.

jesus christ.
2h sucks after the patch.
a side sword does more damage then a german great sword.

1h has retarded speed.


if you get spammed by a uberslow 2h means that you suck ballz.

[EponiCo]

Nah, it doesn't.
27c vs 38c.

(click to show/hide)

Yeah, I don't know why the thrust damage is higher than 2h swords, but lets not forget with this slash they are practically pure thrust weapons with their superlow slash damage. Still I guess having a 2h sword with 27p thrust would be ok too.

[Elmetiacos]

There are some decent shields out there since the patch. Knightly Kite or Heater are viable alternatives to the ubiquitous Huscarl now.  They are both Speed 100. Bucklers are also usable again now since the patch cleared the skies of 10,000 crossbow bolts. With regard to the Bec de Corbin specifically, note how short it is compared to comparable polearms, especially taking grip into account. People often forget this, both opponents - who get too defensive - and Bec users themselves who may swing too soon and miss. It's nowhere near as OP as it was last year. What's your Athletics...?

[zagibu]

In duels, sword and board will mostly lose against 2h/pole (especially if they have axes), but the shield is very good for breaking through enemy lines and you can survive for quite some time in a throng of enemies, if you move correctly. Also, sword and board is very good in combination with other players (at least those who know how to play and aren't too afraid to sometimes drop the shield and swing a bit).

But I agree, it is imbalanced. With the fastest shields, sword and board should still swing faster than the average 2h/pole. The problem is that shield speed does not seem to affect the swing at all.

[Konrax]

Shield speed only effects how quickly you can raise or lower your shield.

Also factor in shield skill above the base level needed to use the item which also decreases these times.

Lighter weapons when blocked manually by heavier ones also have a stun time in order to allow the 2h fighter an opening to return an attack. This might be the "spam" you are talking about, if they block your attack usually you want to block right away after as the only way to really land a second hit is to move your mouse with a fast left swing *IF* you have enough of a speed advantage against them. If you hit them once then continue your attack until they block then pull your shield up for their counter attack.

Obviously movement is very important too, and self explanatory.

[Corrado_Decimo]

"hey im a shielder.. i suck at manual block but i want to kill those damn 2handers because i can't... please nerf them AGAIN. no matter if a 2h is dead meat against a thrower, an archer or a tank with 0 wpf in his backup xbow... i just want to be able to kill em without improving my skill or losing my invulnerability to ranged damage and effortless block" (call it shield).

fixed it for you.

and by the way, the high-average best shielders out there top the scoreboards with a 5:1 k/d and most of the time they're also last men standing.

so please... this isn't a suggestion. this is a personal nerf call with some tears in it.