Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?

[Corrado_Decimo]

A 2hand weapon is quite lone, and now try to imagine to use it in a narrow hallway or between your teammates.
Does it still look like a good option for close quarter combat?

i don't imagine. i use 2handed weapons since the very warband beta. i roll with 2 weapons. a mid-lenght one (claymore) and a short one (mallet, morningstar, great axe). and no. i really don't tk much and no. rarely i get stuck in siege walls or narrow corridors. i do much more friendly casualties with my polearm alt (pike+long war axe) and i get stuck lot of times with the pike or long war axe.

so yes. 1h is good at close combat and 2h too. only difference is shield can let you push in the middle of several enemies (unless a 2h hammer pop in... as you see in sieges) while 2handed needs shielders cover to move in and start whacking. in the open field tho, shielders shouldn't look for kills but should cover pikemen and 2handers while they flank or crush with a frontal charge.

[Mala]

And why do you think a two hand weapon should be good in close quanters, because it made no sense to me.

[Vance]

shielders shouldn't look for kills but should cover pikemen and 2handers while they flank or crush with a frontal charge.

That's exactly what's 'killing the mod' for me. I might as well carry 2 shields if I'm just meant to be a mobile pavise.

[Fartface]

alright 5 points.
1.shielders arent effective untill u reach lvl 27-30.
2. 2h and polearm need way less lvls to be effective(around 15 str and 3 agi i noticed i was being able to do decent).
3.shielders powers dont realy show up in a 1v1, but if u get 15 shielders vs 15 2h/pole in een cwar ul notice who is winning.
4. the shield grands u protection of arrows and throwin while 2handers dont if u go group up with archers and defend them ul notice all the 2h cav polearm are shot down if the archers are protected well.
5. now ur complaining 2handers get to the side of u. i got some tips to stop that for you.
 either get an higher sensetivity, higher agi so u dont have to facehug them but so that u can switch for long range to suddenly walkin forward and devastate ur 2hander with overheads.

[BlackMilk]

alright 5 points.
1.shielders arent effective untill u reach lvl 27-30.

nonsense. Take a scimitar and a round shield and you'll do fine, no matter what level you are. I had some 10-0 runs with my 1h alt at level 20.

[Corrado_Decimo]

And why do you think a two hand weapon should be good in close quanters, because it made no sense to me.

2h are damage dealers. only thing that matters in close quarters or open field is the weapon you choose. if i use a 70-80 length weapon, i'll be more comfortable in narrow corridors or tight spaces. if i want to use a 120 length weapon in tight spaces and easly get stuck with overheads or side swings, is my fault. nowhere is written that 1h/shielders should overwhelm 2handers in close quarters. yes.. you can lure a flamberge spammer in a tight space but this don't mean that all 2handers shouldn't be able to fight in tight walls.

[Steelhyde]

after all the main problem is that 2h/polearm weapons are very game-engine exploiting friendly. the weapon balance itself is pretty good, but as long as exploiting is treated as feature instead of abuse, 2h and polearms stay clearly benefited and overused in my books. maybe we should say "2h/pole-users are abusive lamers" instead of "2h/pole is op". i do not say this to offend people who like to use 2handed weapons or polearms, i like them myself - lamers can feel free to be offended.

i think 2h/pole should get a buff to be unblockable (but still chamberable, you could imagine it as a half-circle parry where you do not stop the weapon with pure force, but deflect most of the swing) with 1handed weapons, only shield and other 2h/poles. but a debuff in feinting-speed, based on lenght and weight.

3.shielders powers dont realy show up in a 1v1, but if u get 15 shielders vs 15 2h/pole in een cwar ul notice who is winning.

-tried it already? did you mix shield breakers and hammers into the 2h/pole setup? did you mix throwers into the shielders?
who won? and how often in a row?
who would even do such setups in a fight? a good mix of different units is always the best decision in an even match....

4. the shield grands u protection of arrows and throwin while 2handers dont if u go group up with archers and defend them ul notice all the 2h cav polearm are shot down if the archers are protected well.

-how do you protect an archer with your shield vs cavalry? i always get charged down and killed unless i have a polearm too, to stop the horse. IF spamming one and the same unit  was a viable tactic in a fight, the only unit i could think of where this would actually work in fact IS cavalry on open field maps.

5. now ur complaining 2handers get to the side of u. i got some tips to stop that for you.
 either get an higher sensetivity

-who complained about 2handers getting to the side of him? i complained about helicopter-jumps and hilt-thrusts that go behind shields. id never complain about silly stuff like being unable to have a 360° forcefield with a kiteshield....

higher agi so u dont have to facehug them but so that u can switch for long range to suddenly walkin forward and devastate ur 2hander with overheads.

-huh? so walking forward and overhead swing means autowin vs any non-shielder? didnt know that.

[Gurnisson]

1.shielders arent effective untill u reach lvl 27-30.

Wut? I was effective from level 19 and upwards when being a shielder.

(click to show/hide)

Strength: 12
Agility: 12
Hit points: 55
Ironflesh: 4
Power Strike: 4
Shield: 4
Athletics: 4
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 125
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

[Fartface]

hmm.let me answer all the questions i remember.
1. u can protect an archer from cav just by simpily standing infront of him and block the lance hit, if the cav wants to bumb you down he bumbs you and the archers it can still kill teh archer by bumping over and over or hes an plated charger but that means u still made his job harder and more time taking.
2. when it comes to the overhead part, NO u will not kill evrything but from personal expiernce i have noticed that the overheads of the 1hander arent blocked that much ( ofcource good people block it but then try feinting as much as possible with the overheads that how i get most succes)
3. just know when people are doing an hilt slash they usualy just give clear signs of them doing it,for instance they kinda hold the left attack till there close and walk left already just block twice.
4. and yes i was able to do well to at lvl 20, but i just think that an 2hander just goes full str till his wep requierment but u just are in an disadvantage in low lvl when going shielder since they got more range and damage while ur still missing ur agi for ur shield
and i just gave him some tips from my expiernces u dont have to just give comment to all i have said u might have differant opinions but im just trying to help him out just as you guys want to.

[Remy]

2h are damage dealers. only thing that matters in close quarters or open field is the weapon you choose. if i use a 70-80 length weapon, i'll be more comfortable in narrow corridors or tight spaces. if i want to use a 120 length weapon in tight spaces and easly get stuck with overheads or side swings, is my fault. nowhere is written that 1h/shielders should overwhelm 2handers in close quarters. yes.. you can lure a flamberge spammer in a tight space but this don't mean that all 2handers shouldn't be able to fight in tight walls.

It would seem more logical if 2H weapons were good at medium to long range in melee. Once the combat is at/near extreme short range(i.e. in your face) it should be better to have shorter weapons.

However, M&B has always been silly in this regard, 2H weapons/pole-arms are superior as long as you can block, regardless of range. (Apart from range defense.)

[Camaris]

Buy Scimi. Spam leftswing. See profit.
2H are in no more way overpowered as its so easy to get good results with spamshieldbuilds now.

[Gorath]

Buy Scimi. Spam leftswing. See profit.
2H are in no more way overpowered as its so easy to get good results with spamshieldbuilds now.

Translation:  1h'd balance is perfect because there is one weapon that does well out of 50...


wut 

[Rumblood]

My problem with 2h and polearms is that range is ignored. If someone has a long ass spear, sure, they should beat a dagger. But if that dagger is inside 4 feet away from the point of the spear and 2 feet from you, you are going to die from dagger thrust while your spear shaft just rubs their arm.

[Corrado_Decimo]

Buy Scimi. Spam leftswing. See profit.
2H are in no more way overpowered as its so easy to get good results with spamshieldbuilds now.

this is a fact. Also there is a whole clan where the uniform is:

- Elite scimitar
- Huscarl/Norman/Knightly shield
- Barbutte

100 golds to who guess the name.

[Corrado_Decimo]

My problem with 2h and polearms is that range is ignored. If someone has a long ass spear, sure, they should beat a dagger. But if that dagger is inside 4 feet away from the point of the spear and 2 feet from you, you are going to die from dagger thrust while your spear shaft just rubs their arm.

i'm using a polearms alt. when i use the 245 long spear, and a enemy come too close to me, simply do a lolcopter with the spear succesfully thrusting at 3 feets.

It would seem more logical if 2H weapons were good at medium to long range in melee. Once the combat is at/near extreme short range(i.e. in your face) it should be better to have shorter weapons.

However, M&B has always been silly in this regard, 2H weapons/pole-arms are superior as long as you can block, regardless of range. (Apart from range defense.)

why? there are 2h weapons for facehug purpose. spiked mace (70 length) great maul (68 length) mallet (71 length) morningstar.
no 1h sword from 90 to 105 cm long glance at facehug. why would glance a even shorter 2h weapon? and if a 1 meter 1h sword don't suffer facehug problems... why would do the same my 17 centimeters longer claymore?