Author Topic: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?  (Read 23164 times)

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Offline BlackMilk

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #195 on: May 26, 2011, 08:20:12 pm »
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Not trying to offend here, but if you can't do better than average as a shielder you really just need to practice more.
The thing is, Ironclaw is probably one of the best 1h+shielder ive ever seen. Even better than Kinngrimm imo and really not average.

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #196 on: May 26, 2011, 08:26:32 pm »
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Ah, the common misconception that 1h+shield requires no skill.
It does. If you suck at it, don't complain. Get better.
This coming from a player with a polearm main and 1h+shield, archer and 2h alts.

Offline Ironclaw

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #197 on: May 27, 2011, 01:18:01 am »
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ptx and Keshian you got the wrong impression here i am not complainin but trying to explain something.
"give a chance" - read lose the bugs.

Thank you BlackMilk but you must confuse me with somebody else. I consider myself average shielder.
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Offline Dezilagel

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #198 on: May 27, 2011, 01:52:15 pm »
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ptx and Keshian you got the wrong impression here i am not complainin but trying to explain something.
"give a chance" - read lose the bugs.

Thank you BlackMilk but you must confuse me with somebody else. I consider myself average shielder.

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Offline BlackMilk

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #199 on: May 27, 2011, 02:38:15 pm »
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Thank you BlackMilk but you must confuse me with somebody else. I consider myself average shielder.
It's not usual for me to get killed over and over again by an average shielder.

Offline Xant

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #200 on: May 27, 2011, 10:11:48 pm »
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It's not usual for me to get killed over and over again by an average shielder.

Indeed, mostly you just get killed by below-average shielders..?

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Offline Tristan

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #201 on: May 27, 2011, 10:13:00 pm »
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Indeed, mostly you just get killed by below-average shielders..?

Ho?

Did you look long and hard on the forum for someone to troll?
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Offline Steelhyde

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #202 on: July 14, 2011, 05:27:45 pm »
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As far as i see the whole s/s (sword[or1h]/shield) vs 2h(or poleaxe[im excluding spears and pikes cause i think they are no problem to beat 1on1]) discussions i would say theres a good ammount of arguments for both sides that are true. however i still find 2h OP and ill gladly explain why.

whenever a s/s user QQs about helicopters, the 2h community goes like: lol a decent player can sneak hits in pretty well and outsmart the helicopter with ease!
- theres the first mistake in my opinion. you compare a (in your opinion) bad s/s to a bad 2h and tell him a good s/s would win against a bad 2h. but what about a decent helicopter? ive had fights where good 2h players could hit behind my shield pretty well by countless retard-movements.
it is mentioned to outmaneuver the 2hander to win, while if he is good he will easily take advantage of superior speed and weapon range until your shield breaks, or try to helicopter behind your shield with hiltthrust- attack types.
i would NOT say a helicopter is better than an s/s player by spamming alone, but its about possible attack-moves! while the only viable attacks for a 1handed weapon are the basic 4 attack types and feinting, the 2handed has much more to offer.
with a 2hander you can hiltthrust with left and right swings (exploit thats being treated as a feature), 5k mousespeed helicopter (tried that on s/s and i didnt work because my character turnes too slow for some reason[maybe cause of shield?], but even if he did its kinda useless with a 90* length weapon), helicopter-feint (unreadable), helicopter-thrust (exploit treated as a feature [also useless with 90* length 1handed]) and i also found it easier to chamber with 2h +you have the 4 normal attack types.
(*) im using the 90 length as a basic range for 1h because most 1handed are around 90 and counting only 100 length weapons would mean the others are useless.

-the probably worst argument is the "shield is immune to ranged!" one. 2h players can grab shields or crossbows or throwing weapons or bows too ... plus evading arrows is not really that hard with a speedy character, while my shield is already half broken in the time i need to approach.

-point is that 2h players seem to think it is fair that they own in duels because it is hard to play with manual blocking. while i agree with the thought behind this argument, i totally disagree on the argument itself.
a 1h with no shield should rock in duels cause youre not being hindered in your speed/movement like you would be with a shield. you also could switch to 2h swing with your 1h to do decent damage if you see the opporunity for a good strike or use your left hand for punching, shoving, grabbing, dual wield etc.
but a 2handed weapon should by no means be good in duels, its totally unrealistic that a 2h can win vs a shielder and anybody that ever fought in a steel-weapon skirmish in reality would agree on that. you simply move point blank and he cant do shit, shove him with your shield and stab him to death. 2handers ARE support weapons and not duel weapons.
we need a dual wield possibility in this game....
1h/dual wield should be better vs shield, shield should be better vs 2h and 2h should be better vs 1h/dual wield (cause you cant parry a 2h with a 1h) that would be realistic and fair if you ask me. atm its only about which team has the most high-gear/high-level/high-helicopter 2h's and that team usually wins.

all in all i think the balance is not too bad, but when it comes to skilled player battles or pro gaming 2h is simply OP because it has much more possibilities to offer with nearly no drawback at all (for a skilled player). + skill system on crpg is unbalanced cause 2h max-agi builds are too fast and still have good damage while you would hardly go through any armor with a 1h max-agi build.

just my 5 cent

please DONT reply before you read the whole post, spare me your nonsense

Offline Corrado_Decimo

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #203 on: July 14, 2011, 05:41:26 pm »
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ok lets put it simple.

1h/shield: anti-ranged walls, first line, coverage, good in close quarters

polearms: cav lance profiency, anti-cav (best at it), poke support (only line capable of), shieldbreakers (best at it), damage dealers (SHOULD be only second do 2handed, but now match the 2handed DPS if not more with the stun addition)

2handed: damage dealers (SHOULD be primary role... now polearms match it if not better) anti-infantry (SHOULD BE best at it), crushthru support (best at it), shieldbreakers (soso compared to polearms), good in close quarters.


clearly, things are not how they should be. 1h/shield pays almost-immunity to ranged and clusterfucks with their inferiority in 1vs1 against polearm and 2handed. 2handed pays their advantage versus shielders with the vulnerability against ranged spam. polearms excel in: horse lances, shieldbreaking, pikes anticav, stunlocking. they match and often pass 2handed dps. so we can definately say the line with less drawbacks and more fighting styles is polearms. only reason to go 2h over polearm, are slightly better crushthru weapons.

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #204 on: July 14, 2011, 05:44:43 pm »
+1
And the much better reach due to animations...
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Offline Corrado_Decimo

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #205 on: July 14, 2011, 05:53:38 pm »
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And the much better reach due to animations...

yeah. so two handed weapons should be held with one hand at the middle of the blade just to make forumers stop calling the "better animation reach".  :rolleyes:

a glaive stuns you for 1,5 seconds, have better reach (because is 50cm longer than an average 2handed sword) and match the heavy greatsword cut damage (39c). you get bored of stunlocking? spawn the next round on a horse and go lance... cav is kicking your ass in a random plains? you can spawn with a pike and do anticav support... too many shielders? spawn with a german poleaxe. need the crushthru fun? spawn with a long maul.

Offline ThePoopy

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #206 on: July 14, 2011, 06:05:10 pm »
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2h are fine, pole need cut nerf or stun removed when wte, 1h pierce/blunt/speed nerf
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 12:01:37 pm by ThePoopy »

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #207 on: July 14, 2011, 06:34:54 pm »
+2
Man, i feel like 1h deal almost the same damage as 2h nowadays, and then theyre waaaay harder to block, especially those scimis >_>

Offline Chaos

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #208 on: July 14, 2011, 09:27:05 pm »
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I get wrecked 1v1 by shielders when on foot nowadays, even by below average shielders. This is largely because most shielders facehug my lhb swinging pure polearm character and I can't do shit about it, except to run behind them but then its rinse and repeat. And it is really damn hard to see attack directions in first person when youre getting facehugged, especially considering how fast 1hers are.

Offline Corrado_Decimo

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Re: Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?
« Reply #209 on: July 14, 2011, 11:01:29 pm »
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2h are fine, pole need cut nerf or stun removed when wte, 1h pierce/blunt nerf

2h was fine 3 months ago. the latest 2 speed and damage nerfs (and claymore length nerf) left the 2h line with no reason to not go polearm. my polearms alt 18/21 with no heirlooms can really match my 10gen 2handed main at killing stuff. but my polearm alt i can choose at least 4 fighting styles (including cavalry option).

That's why 30-40% of old 2handers gone polearms fotm.