Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?

[zagibu]

That only works till you run into a remotely skilled player, in which case the jumping around will only make you look like an idiot as you get cut down in mid air. Stamina would change too many aspects of this game. I spent 3 of the previous 5 hours dueling one person. We were averaging 2 minute duels with our longest duels being just over 5 minutes. It was some of the most fun I've ever had in warband. So how the fuck can you balance Stamina for such a thing?

That's true, but in a battle, duels are pretty rare, and you can hop around in a crowd swinging left and right and collect enough kills to offset the times you are killed by experienced players.

I agree though that the stamina system would require a major overhaul of the game mechanics. It would be worth it though. It would allow to drop the hard requirements for weapons, for example, by binding swing speed to stamina and weapon weight. Silly things like the overhead lolhammer machinegun tank would disappear. Same for the glaivocopter. Peasants could use any weapon right from the start, but it would be a gamble, because their second swing would be snail-like.

Hard to balance? Yes. Worth it when done right? Absolutely.

[Shablagoo]

Yeah that explains why i get spammed when i have my mw 2h? and the fact i then pick up a 1h and can spam people easyli with 1 wpf ? yeah i see.....

1h weapons require you to be close, aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill.

[Tydeus]

1h weapons require you to be close, aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill.

1h left swing, swings high. On even ground, it will hit an opponents head when, with the same camera orientation, any other type of weapon would be a body shot. I've been one shot by 1h headshots before while wearing a helmet, it happens less often than 2h of course, but its enough to show how your statement is wrong.

[_GTX_]

1h weapons require you to be close, aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill.

1h does ALOT of dmg, you dont need to hit multiple times at all.

[Shablagoo]

1h left swing, swings high. On even ground, it will hit an opponents head when, with the same camera orientation, any other type of weapon would be a body shot. I've been one shot by 1h headshots before while wearing a helmet, it happens less often than 2h of course, but its enough to show how your statement is wrong.

Yeah, that's exactly the same as spamming a 2hander or polearm.  Good point....

[Inkompetent]

1h weapons require you to be close, aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill.

Wow. Yeah. Two entire hits with a Steel Pick. Three with a a good sword or best axe. The same amount of hits I need with my GLA fyi.

[Cepeshi]

Usually when i get picked to head, i am dead...same with the toptier swords...if you get facehit, it hurts as hell, no matter what weapon

[Tydeus]

1h weapons require you to be close, aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill.

1h left swing, swings high. On even ground, it will hit an opponents head when, with the same camera orientation, any other type of weapon would be a body shot. I've been one shot by 1h headshots before while wearing a helmet, it happens less often than 2h of course, but its enough to show how your statement is wrong.

Yeah, that's exactly the same as spamming a 2hander or polearm.  Good point....

Neither you nor myself stated anything about spamming in either of our first posts. You specifically stated "aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill." To which I directly refuted those two points. You don't have to aim for the head, left swings innately swing high so that with a normal camera orientation, you will hit your opponent in the head. Hitting in the head causes more damage than hitting in the body, often times you can 1shot a person by hitting them in the head, especially with a pick.

But if you want to talk about spamming, sure.

There are zero Polearms/Two-Handers that (without footwork) can be swung consecutively without the shielder being able to retaliate. What I'm saying is that if you take footwork out of the picture, a Two-Hander is standing directly in front of a shielder and neither are moving, As long as the shielder has good enough timing, it is mechanically impossible for the Two-Hander to swing twice in a row without the shielder having the ability to retaliate. This is an irrefutable statement. Current game mechanics don't allow for such an occurrence to happen without a significant difference in player timing.

So anyone complaining about spamming is either complaining about something else, like back peddlers or rabbits(those jumpy fucks), or they truly need to learn to play.

derp

[chaosegg]

I'm a sword and board with 8 shield and 160WP with the fastest single handed sword (Nordic) and people in full plate/black armor can STILL helicopter around and eviscerate me with literally no chance to attack back between swings.

Why is this so? 2h and polearms already do drastically greater damage than single handed weapons (rightfully so) and have greater range, so why must they be faster?

The proof of this that every high-roller on every CRPG server is either rolling cav or 2h/polearm as it's main predator the javelin got nerfed (Probably under complaints from the plate wearing helicopters that something could actually kill them).

So, either un-nerf throwing (preferable, as they weren't OP in the first place, having little ammo and being easy to kill close up) or slow 2h and pole arms considerably so you can't swing a 10ft poleaxe faster than a small sword.

2h/pole are not faster if you don't have a shield.
Reason they are good is they have greater reach and your shield cuts your speed drastically, even with high shield skill you do less base damage unless you stack powerstrike, but most good players stack powerstrike and go 2h/pole also.

If you can manual block try going powerstrike 8-9+ with a Steel Pick (no shield) and i bet you own most any 2h/pole user.
This game is not about pure swing speed or twitch, as much as it is timing and positioning anyways.

[zagibu]

Also, who told you the Nordic Champion's Sword is the fastest single hand sword? It's actually one of the slowest. Only Arabian Cavalry Sword, Military Cleaver, Shaska and Falchion are slower.

[Akincibegi]

Vicious? you mad? i said the most skilled shielders... not the most equiped.
cmon vicious can't feint, he knows only 2 attack directions. left swing and overhead.

take out his lordly plate, lordly mittens, lordly helm, lordly greaves, loomed pick and loomed steel shield... should be funny to see.

hmm cool story but a bit wrong.k i dont like that italian facist( ).but he s skilled and not spamming he jsut attacks in times so he s skilled enough to find your weak time and overhead is most effective attack direction especially with a pick.

[Burr1ck]

Lol you forgot Kinngrimm... and Vicious...? 

Forgot Olwen/ Lamhban and Merc_Varyag ?

[Keshian]

Neither you nor myself stated anything about spamming in either of our first posts. You specifically stated "aim to hit, and hit multiple times to get a kill." To which I directly refuted those two points. You don't have to aim for the head, left swings innately swing high so that with a normal camera orientation, you will hit your opponent in the head. Hitting in the head causes more damage than hitting in the body, often times you can 1shot a person by hitting them in the head, especially with a pick.

But if you want to talk about spamming, sure.

There are zero Polearms/Two-Handers that (without footwork) can be swung consecutively without the shielder being able to retaliate. What I'm saying is that if you take footwork out of the picture, a Two-Hander is standing directly in front of a shielder and neither are moving, As long as the shielder has good enough timing, it is mechanically impossible for the Two-Hander to swing twice in a row without the shielder having the ability to retaliate. This is an irrefutable statement. Current game mechanics don't allow for such an occurrence to happen without a significant difference in player timing.

So anyone complaining about spamming is either complaining about something else, like back peddlers or rabbits(those jumpy fucks), or they truly need to learn to play.

derp

I agree on the game mechanics and about the footwork.  However, if you have 30 or more ping than the person you are fighting, the register of the hit before you can swing back is delayed and if the person swings a second time he may be able to get a hit in before you get your return swing in after the block.  This problem becomes exacerbated the higher the ping difference and makes fighting as a NA in EU or vice versa very difficult where you end up relying on a lot of footwork and repetitive swinging without blocking.

[Corrado_Decimo]

I agree on the game mechanics and about the footwork.  However, if you have 30 or more ping than the person you are fighting, the register of the hit before you can swing back is delayed and if the person swings a second time he may be able to get a hit in before you get your return swing in after the block.  This problem becomes exacerbated the higher the ping difference and makes fighting as a NA in EU or vice versa very difficult where you end up relying on a lot of footwork and repetitive swinging without blocking.

that's another point people seems to forget. every skilled player i know is often paired with a good 30-40 ping network connection. and there are good 30-40 pingers (with zero packet-loss) and bad 30-40 pingers (with a lot of packetloss meaning blocks don't register, delayed swings...)

heck phyrex is a very good player and can block at least 90% of the attacks from a good and fast feinter. but he plays with 30-35 ping and he never get a unregistered block. a normal 60-80 ping connection need to compensate with more WPF to keep the pace of an opponent with 30 ping.

i saw 30/9 STR builds swinging really fast with 20-30 ping plus good timing and camera turning to pull the attacks faster.

[Snapalope]

You do realize most people simply out skill you.  A lot of 2 handers or polearm users are really good at sneaking in swings when you are just about to swing, hitting you when you raise your weapon.  I love doing that to shielders.  You really need to improve on your timing and feinting skills.

Just observer Man of War play and you can pick up on some tips.