Why oh why are 2h and pole arms still OP?

[Corrado_Decimo]

In duels, sword and board will mostly lose against 2h/pole (especially if they have axes), but the shield is very good for breaking through enemy lines and you can survive for quite some time in a throng of enemies, if you move correctly. Also, sword and board is very good in combination with other players (at least those who know how to play and aren't too afraid to sometimes drop the shield and swing a bit).

But I agree, it is imbalanced. With the fastest shields, sword and board should still swing faster than the average 2h/pole. The problem is that shield speed does not seem to affect the swing at all.

2hander/polearm trade ranged vulnerability and harder block (even harder versus multiple enemies) for speed and damage. 1h/shield trade damage for ranged invulnerability and easy blocks (even versus multiple enemies).

try to do 2 or 3 attacks when you lower your shield and tell me if you're slow. then pick a 2hander and go in the charge when multiple enemies try to hit you. try to manual block 3 enemies at a time and tell me how easy is that.

[Corrado_Decimo]

Shield speed only effects how quickly you can raise or lower your shield.

Also factor in shield skill above the base level needed to use the item which also decreases these times.

Lighter weapons when blocked manually by heavier ones also have a stun time in order to allow the 2h fighter an opening to return an attack. This might be the "spam" you are talking about, if they block your attack usually you want to block right away after as the only way to really land a second hit is to move your mouse with a fast left swing *IF* you have enough of a speed advantage against them. If you hit them once then continue your attack until they block then pull your shield up for their counter attack.

Obviously movement is very important too, and self explanatory.

this is a good advice.

@ thread opener: follow advices and you'll get better. whining to ask for more nerfs will only destroy the game that has been broken to this point.
you can follow the good shielders advice, or you can jump in the "2h is OP" train with gorath and the other underskilled players.

or you can roll a twohander and see with your eyes how is easy to dodge arrows, manual block 3+ opponents at a time, bashing triple heirloomed steel shields...

[Shinimas]

I'm a shieldsman. 2Hs and Polearms are fine. Buff to the Great Long Axe was strange, in my opinion, causing a bit too many shieldcrackers running around for my taste, oh well, no pain, no gain.

[Gorath]

"2h is OP" train with gorath and the other underskilled players.

What in the hell are you babbling about?  You don't read posts apparently, but I assume that's because either english isn't your native language or you're just literacy challenged.   

Overall, this really is a case of PEBKAC

2h is OP train huh?  Idiot.

BTW:  Who are you on the NA servers.  I'm really curious how you feel qualified to talk about skilled or underskilled players.

[Shablagoo]

Is it possible to counterattack a 2h or polearm user?  I've got 120 wpf in 1handers with a 100 speed sword and 100 speed shield.   Even without armor any non-shield user can just keep spamming attack on me and it's impossible to fight back.  I just have to wait until a teammate comes and bails me out.  I never have this problem when I use a 2 handed weapon. 

[Seawied]

What in the hell are you babbling about?  You don't read posts apparently, but I assume that's because either english isn't your native language or you're just literacy challenged.   

2h is OP train huh?  Idiot.

BTW:  Who are you on the NA servers.  I'm really curious how you feel qualified to talk about skilled or underskilled players.

I think most people dont understand what PEBKAC is... which is why computer geeks get away with it too much.

[Thucydides]

WHAT THE HELL IS PEBKAC? goddamn nerds

[IG_Saint]

Is it possible to counterattack a 2h or polearm user?  I've got 120 wpf in 1handers with a 100 speed sword and 100 speed shield.   Even without armor any non-shield user can just keep spamming attack on me and it's impossible to fight back.  I just have to wait until a teammate comes and bails me out.  I never have this problem when I use a 2 handed weapon.

Your timing or positioning is wrong. Or possibly you're just getting stunned. Block the first 2 hits to counter the stun, then move to your left and forward and do a left to right slash. Make sure you start the attack as soon as you hear the thud of the block and make sure to turn with your attack as wel.

BTW:  Who are you on the NA servers.  I'm really curious how you feel qualified to talk about skilled or underskilled players.

He's EU. I've dueled both of you, admittedly against gorath I have 120 ping and I haven't fought corrado_decimo since pre-big patch, but imo gorath is the beter player. That doesn't mean decimo is a bad player though.

On the topic of polearms/2hs being OP: If you're losing in melee combat you have no one to blame but yourself. Melee is fine as far as I'm concerned.

[Shablagoo]

Your timing or positioning is wrong. Or possibly you're just getting stunned. Block the first 2 hits to counter the stun, then move to your left and forward and do a left to right slash. Make sure you start the attack as soon as you hear the thud of the block and make sure to turn with your attack as well

How do you know if you're stunned?  Is there any indicator or are you always stunned on the first attack? 

[Seawied]

WHAT THE HELL IS PEBKAC? goddamn nerds

Problem exists between keyboard and chair.

[IG_Saint]

How do you know if you're stunned?  Is there any indicator or are you always stunned on the first attack?

If you get stunned you can only block, you can't attack, which throws of your timing and gets you killed. Whether or not you get stunned depends on a bunch of things, but weapon weight and damage seem to be the most important factor. If you have a small weapon or shield and you block a big weapon, you're more likely to get stunned because of the weight difference. If the 2h/pole guy holds his attack, he does more damage, so you'll also be more likely to get stunned. That's why it's often only the first hit that you need to look out for, because the enemy usually comes charging in with a right to left attack held ready.

[Paul]

The best way to figure out if one is stunned or not is experience.

[Corrado_Decimo]

Your timing or positioning is wrong. Or possibly you're just getting stunned. Block the first 2 hits to counter the stun, then move to your left and forward and do a left to right slash. Make sure you start the attack as soon as you hear the thud of the block and make sure to turn with your attack as wel.

He's EU. I've dueled both of you, admittedly against gorath I have 120 ping and I haven't fought corrado_decimo since pre-big patch, but imo gorath is the beter player. That doesn't mean decimo is a bad player though.

On the topic of polearms/2hs being OP: If you're losing in melee combat you have no one to blame but yourself. Melee is fine as far as I'm concerned.

well i fought that "2h elitist blablabla" gorath with my archer/polearms alt lot of time ago in his "skilled players" server. i had something like 120-150 ping... after killing him several times, i said something about weeabos and he tried to threathen me with his admin powers. how cute...

regarding weapon balance Saint, they're fine by me too... just i'm sick of nabs calling the nerf hammer everyday.
and by the way we dueled a lot in november 2010... you was one of the best 1handers out there.

No news NA servers are infamous for their trolling behaviour... just look this troll who is an admin there.

[Tomas_of_Miles]

Same thing as before, you want to swing faster drop the shield.  1handers are faster than 2handers and polearms, just manual block once and move in clsoe you will outspam the crap out of them.  Shield users have a huge advantage of being able to hold a block for 90% of the time and actually ahve it autoblock incoming attacks, its a much more methodical way of fighting and yous wing slwoer with a shield, so your speed has to rely as much on good footwork and positioning as spamming.  Practice your footwork adn positioning or get rid of the shield and you will find you will hit first.

This is true but you need as much wpf as the 2h you are facing, and a decent amount of power strike otherwise you will be frustratingly slower than 2h or you will glance when you manage to get a hit in. Spec Kinngrimm, he is a very good shielder.

[Gorath]

Corrado, I have no idea why you feel the need to suckle on my nuts so much but you are by far one of the most full of shit people I have seen on the forums.  Did I fuck your mother or something?   
I doubt you could kill me once, while my back is turned and I'm alt-tabbed, much less several times and the fact that your story hinges on the idea that I give a shit about the term weeabo, much less would "threaten you with my admin powers" because of the term weeabo, shows that you are absolutely full of shit.

Sorry I deep dicked the women in your family but that's still no reason to go around taint sniffing my every post and bullshitting.     Idiot.