cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Rhekimos on November 24, 2015, 11:41:09 am

Title: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 24, 2015, 11:41:09 am
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34907983

Turkey just shot down a Russian fighter jet.

What next?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: BASNAK on November 24, 2015, 11:43:03 am
What next?

Fallout 4 irl.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 24, 2015, 11:50:29 am
Video:

http://cdn.theguardian.tv/webM/2015/11/24/151124TurkeySyria2_synd_768k_vp8.webm

You can see two parachutes open.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Son Of Odin on November 24, 2015, 12:08:08 pm
Russians are slow learners when it comes to not violating the airspace of another country :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: AwesomeHail on November 24, 2015, 12:24:59 pm
Welp

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 24, 2015, 12:25:58 pm
Russia confirmed to destroy Erdogan + Turkey and split Turkey between Greece (Byzantine Empire), Armenia and Kurds (Kurdistan)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 24, 2015, 12:46:33 pm
Russia confirmed to destroy Erdogan + Turkey and split Turkey between Greece (Byzantine Empire), Armenia and Kurds (Kurdistan)

There's also NATO to consider. Turkey is a member after all.

"NATO Vows Military Support If Turkey Goes To War With Russia"
Not some PR guy either, but NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/12/us-mideast-crisis-turkey-nato-idUSKCN0S61DU20151012
http://www.mintpressnews.com/nato-vows-military-support-if-turkey-goes-to-war-with-russia/210311/

Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 24, 2015, 01:11:21 pm
Siding with Turkey right now would be most idiotic thing to do visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 like the leaders of the world arent making enough bullshit decisions transforming Syrian civil war into a proxy war.

But I guess its mainly a PR move to use as a deterrent against Russia tresspassing too eagerly into every other country air space.


Best comment of the article:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Yarl on November 24, 2015, 01:26:33 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPmmtrMJyHs
fking savages

it could be fake/ old video ofc
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 01:31:30 pm
About time. Russia's favorite pastime is invading other countries airspace. They've done this repeatedly to all their neighbors, and to Turkey as well multiple times recently. Maybe they'll start respecting Turkey's airspace from now on.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ujin on November 24, 2015, 01:32:02 pm
Russians are slow learners when it comes to not violating the airspace of another country :rolleyes:
Turkey (Erdogan) supports the terrorists, as well as trains them and gets a nice discount on oil. But sure, fuck Russia for intervening and bombing a rapidly spreading terrorist self-proclaimed state that declared Jihad on anyone who's not  into stoning. I swear to God, some people have such hatred for Russia that it just clouds their judgement. Thankfully not everyone is like you, even the comments for the youtube video below show it.
(click to show/hide)

P.S. apparently i suck at inserting YT videos , but whatever
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 24, 2015, 01:33:15 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPmmtrMJyHs
fking savages

it could be fake/ old video ofc
dat old video and syrian pilot
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Yarl on November 24, 2015, 01:40:05 pm
dat old video and syrian pilot
yeah but still


Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 24, 2015, 01:48:11 pm
P.S. apparently i suck at inserting YT videos , but whatever

The old forum code doesn't understand secure YT links, so you need to manually edit from https to http in order to embed.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 01:55:55 pm
Turkey (Erdogan) supports the terrorists, as well as trains them and gets a nice discount on oil. But sure, fuck Russia for intervening and bombing a rapidly spreading terrorist self-proclaimed state that declared Jihad on anyone who's not  into stoning. I swear to God, some people have such hatred for Russia that it just clouds their judgement. Thankfully not everyone is like you, even the comments for the youtube video below show it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9UJcX_UVB0

P.S. apparently i suck at inserting YT videos , but whatever
Yes, because Russia needs to invade Turkey's airspace to bomb the terrorists that are nowhere near Turkey's borders, right? Not to mention that whether Russia is bombing "terrorists" or not is highly debatable, many sources say they're not very interested in ISIS...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/nato-chief-jens-stoltenberg-russia-turkish-airspace-violations-syria
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on November 24, 2015, 02:05:40 pm
A promising topic for this forum!
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 24, 2015, 02:12:00 pm
About time. Russia's favorite pastime is invading other countries airspace. They've done this repeatedly to all their neighbors, and to Turkey as well multiple times recently. Maybe they'll start respecting Turkey's airspace from now on.

Russia breaks airspace with all of its neighbours all the time with bombers...infact. Not to mention their battleships always get lost in someone elses waters too. And than Kremlin has the balls to yell at someone elses face when their tiny fishingboat or passgenger plane gets legimately lost in their borders once a year. Finally someone did something about it.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 02:14:40 pm
Russia breaks airspace with all of its neighbours all the time with bombers...infact. Not to mention their battleships always get lost in someone elses waters too. And than Kremlin has the balls to yell at someone elses face when their tiny fishingboat or passgenger plane gets legimately lost in their borders once a year. Finally someone did something about it.
Not just ships and airplanes, their special forces sometimes get lost 50km into Ukraine on exercises... someone really oughta teach the Russian military how maps work.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Son Of Odin on November 24, 2015, 02:24:31 pm
Turkey (Erdogan) supports the terrorists, as well as trains them and gets a nice discount on oil. But sure, fuck Russia for intervening and bombing a rapidly spreading terrorist self-proclaimed state that declared Jihad on anyone who's not  into stoning. I swear to God, some people have such hatred for Russia that it just clouds their judgement. Thankfully not everyone is like you, even the comments for the youtube video below show it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9UJcX_UVB0

P.S. apparently i suck at inserting YT videos , but whatever

I don't care debating about Putin bombing terrorists. Just saying it's nothing new under the sun to hear about a Russian military plane violating airspaces. I mean wtf.. Seriously...
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 24, 2015, 02:28:10 pm
"Turkey vehemently opposes the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad. Russia is propping up the Assad regime."

"This kind of incident might ultimately have been inevitable, given the number of countries involved either directly or indirectly in the Syrian war. Currently, the United States, Russia, France, the Gulf states, Turkey and Israel are involved in one way or another in military activity in Syria."

""It's very much the last thing that's needed right now, especially in the aftermath of the Paris attacks, when there was hope that Russia could form an alliance with France and with the United States against ISIS," Gohel said. "This is going to complicate things. This is going to add unnecessary tensions that really weren't required at this critical juncture.""

"This is a situation that unfortunately was almost inevitable at some point, because Turkey has long been accusing Russia of interfering in their airspace," Gohel said. "They've threatened them in the past. And even though economic relations between the two countries are strong -- politically, there have been tensions recently.""

"In March of 2014, Turkey shot down a Syrian fighter jet after the warplane strayed into its airspace, according to then-Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Erdogan is now the country's president.

"Our F-16s went up in the air and shot that plane down. Why? Because if you violate my airspace, then from now on, our slap will be hard," Erdogan told supporters at a campaign rally in 2014.

But state-run media in Syria called it an act of "blatant aggression" and said the downed plane was over northern Syria at the time."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/
visitors can't see pics , please register or login



To me judging by this picture (if it can be assumed that it is legitimate) it doesn't seem like the bomber would be over turkish airspace even long enough for them to issue 10 warnings and then scramble fighters and hit the russian warplane... I hope Russia retrieves it's pilots soon before crazy islam get their hands on them.

The U.S. Needs to let turkey know that this is not ok, but what Obama will probably do is try his hardest not to get involved, indirectly giving turkey the greenlight to do it again and giving Russia the impression that we are ok with this and not on their side if conflict between russia and turkey breaks out.

Turkey is a nato country though so they will probably get a gift basket from the U.S.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on November 24, 2015, 02:32:21 pm
As if all other parties of the Syrian conflict had been playing by the book so far, some people are ignorant enough to blabber about air field violations. The hypocrisy is off the charts.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Lt_Anders on November 24, 2015, 02:41:16 pm
If Russia and Turkey duke it out, US has to come regardless, due to prior Alliance treaty.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 24, 2015, 02:45:16 pm
If Russia and Turkey duke it out, US has to come regardless, due to prior Alliance treaty.

Yep and probably all Nato countries will side with Turkey, it's perfect for the U.S. and Turkey.

Take pot shots at Russian Military because Russia won't help in destabilizing Syria by elminating the Assad Regime.

Just when France was agreeing that ISIS should be the main focus and not supporting Syrian Rebel Factions against Assad as a primary focus...

Nobody like Assad, but you take him and his regime out of the equation and it isn't going to be sunshine and rainbows... It will be just like Iraq after Saddam regime was eliminated (country in turmoil, birth of ISIS)... After toppling Assad I will bet good money that ISIS numbers will swell.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 24, 2015, 03:15:16 pm
Conspiracy theory: Ukraine revolution and middle east crisis are NWO plot to force Russia into military conflict they will lose, which will give NWO access to natural resources in Syberia.

I might be making a joke but thing is, university professors from my country will say this on national television. Those times when random citizens know better than people who have PhD. We're doomed anyway, mainly because stupid people are on the rise.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on November 24, 2015, 03:24:02 pm
Well, now it's clear who's side erdogan is on.

""It's very much the last thing that's needed right now, especially in the aftermath of the Paris attacks, when there was hope that Russia could form an alliance with France and with the United States against ISIS," Gohel said. "This is going to complicate things. This is going to add unnecessary tensions that really weren't required at this critical juncture.""
I think it's no coincidence that it's just when Russia was about to form an alliance with the west that Trukey prefers to spread more tensions, they would have no benefits in Russia and Europe being more close together.

Sure Russia violated the airspace but that happens almsot everytime you make a war plane fly. Turkey was already dicks for not letting Russia fly over its territory, if their real purpose (Turkey) was to fight ISIS. But also Russia got what they asked for with playing with fire.

ps: better?

Also Russia attacked by another country defending its minority living abroad...kind of ironic ^^
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 03:27:02 pm
Sure Russia violated the airspace but that happens almsot everytime you make a jet fly.
Wat?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 24, 2015, 03:28:41 pm
Russia is trying hard to get along with Europe and just when major European forces (like Germany or France) start thinking how being an ally with Russia is a good idea, USA intervenes and breaks that bond. Though luck Ruskies, learn to play this game a bit better.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 03:32:47 pm
Sure Russia violated the airspace but that happens almsot everytime you make a war plane fly

ps: better?

No it's not better, it's just as utter nonsense as it was before. How about some sources for "it's inevitable for ""war planes"" to violate airspace"?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 24, 2015, 03:36:06 pm
Thing is, Russia still believe they are big bad Soviets and are on par with USA. As we all know, American aircrafts are allowed everywhere on this planet, so Ruskies think they can do the same. Turns out they can't. Now they can launch them nukes and hope they hit the target or make an angry face while retreating back to their cave.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 03:38:45 pm
http://yle.fi/uutiset/finland_confirms_6th_russian_airspace_violation_in_just_over_a_year/8143705

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/highly-disturbing-russian-military-strategy-causing-dangerous-military-encounters-report-9850549.html

It's a standard Russian/Soviet tactic.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Guray on November 24, 2015, 03:39:05 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPmmtrMJyHs
fking savages

it could be fake/ old video ofc
what a fool to believe that Turks are arabs..Looks like you are not the only one. Appears from the comments..

gg wp tho

Lets hope that the Pilots are safe atleast
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on November 24, 2015, 03:42:23 pm
It's not "inevitable" but it happens, no need to make such a big deal out of it if you're supposedly fighting the same enemy.

I did not wrote inevitable and put this phrase too: "But also Russia got what they asked for with playing with fire."
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 24, 2015, 03:48:28 pm
Verifying Video of a Dead Russian Pilot in Syria (https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2015/11/24/verifying-video-of-a-dead-russian-pilot-in-syria/)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Kirman on November 24, 2015, 03:56:38 pm
We are fucked.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Corwin on November 24, 2015, 03:56:48 pm
Look at Constantinople:

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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 04:00:10 pm
what a fool to believe that Turks are arabs..Looks like you are not the only one. Appears from the comments..

gg wp tho

Lets hope that the Pilots are safe atleast
Turks are arabs.
Quote
Overall, modern Turks are most related to neighbouring West Asian populations.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Guray on November 24, 2015, 04:03:26 pm
Turks are arabs.

Wikipedia . Ok .
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 04:05:23 pm
Wikipedia . Ok .
Truth hurts, doesn't it? :)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Guray on November 24, 2015, 04:08:08 pm
Truth hurts, doesn't it? :)
Once you get involved with science and history you will see how nobody will take you seriously when you say your source is wikipedia . You will be kicked out immidiately

I have read countless encyclopedias (physical books that is!11one You know the big ones where people travel around the world find clues of what they write . Oh sorry what retards they could only use wikipedia.. :) ) about Turkish history and Asian history. I also know that Turks are from Siberia . Just so you know.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 24, 2015, 04:18:23 pm
There's also NATO to consider. Turkey is a member after all.

"NATO Vows Military Support If Turkey Goes To War With Russia"
Not some PR guy either, but NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/12/us-mideast-crisis-turkey-nato-idUSKCN0S61DU20151012
http://www.mintpressnews.com/nato-vows-military-support-if-turkey-goes-to-war-with-russia/210311/

NATO = UIF from Strategus/CRPG
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 04:25:09 pm
Coming soon, to a Turkey near you:

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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ikarus on November 24, 2015, 04:25:42 pm
Tardogan did it again, well crap. Violating air space, ok, that´s one thing (and happens a lot from the Russian side), but most countries send out their jets to make the intruder turn around and go back, not simply shoot it.

Also, the Turks are slowly walking into a dangerous direction
(click to show/hide)
Turkey is also part of NATO -> NATO troops mostly exists of american and turkish troops. And there´s also massive blabbering about Turkey getting some cheap IS oil. Putin may be shady, but Erdogan is upright dangerous.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Guray on November 24, 2015, 04:27:38 pm
Coming soon, to a Turkey near you:

Thought you could try harder. Looks like that is it from you.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 24, 2015, 04:30:06 pm
Putin fury; a "stab in the back" committed by "accomplices of terrorists".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34913173


Syrian Turkmen brigade deputy commander Alpaslan Celik:
"Both of the pilots were retrieved dead. Our comrades opened fire into the air and they died in the air."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-idUSKBN0TD0IR20151124


Russia has also discouraged citizens from visiting Turkey.

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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 04:37:05 pm
Thought you could try harder. Looks like that is it from you.
Mad because I proved Turks are Arabs? It's ok, everyone else thought Wikipedia was really unreliable 15 years ago too... you're only that much behind the times!
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 24, 2015, 04:39:37 pm
Why so many Ruskies visit Turkey? I get why those "Germans" visit, they are Turks after all...
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 24, 2015, 04:43:12 pm
Why so many Ruskies visit Turkey? I get why those "Germans" visit, they are Turks after all...
Cheap flights and resorts. Always disliked these Arabs, they want Crimea back!
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Guray on November 24, 2015, 04:52:00 pm
Mad because I proved Turks are Arabs? It's ok, everyone else thought Wikipedia was really unreliable 15 years ago too... you're only that much behind the times!
I can only laugh at this comment of yours .
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Guray on November 24, 2015, 04:55:07 pm
Why so many Ruskies visit Turkey? I get why those "Germans" visit, they are Turks after all...
Cheap Holiday
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 24, 2015, 04:56:53 pm
Why so many Ruskies visit Turkey? I get why those "Germans" visit, they are Turks after all...

My dad was visiting Antalya this summer. The amount of Russian tourists at the hotel he stayed in and nearby was crazy.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on November 24, 2015, 05:00:33 pm
After the russian plane explosion in Egypt... I guess no one wants russian tourists anymore  :cry:
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 05:18:40 pm
Cheap Holiday
Arabs have always provided cheap holidays, yes.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 24, 2015, 05:25:17 pm
After the russian plane explosion in Egypt... I guess no one wants russian tourists anymore  :cry:

cyka blyat  :cry:

More money for vodka instead )))))))))
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Beauchamp on November 24, 2015, 05:53:35 pm
Russia is trying hard to get along with Europe and just when major European forces (like Germany or France) start thinking how being an ally with Russia is a good idea, USA intervenes and breaks that bond. Though luck Ruskies, learn to play this game a bit better.

i havent noticed russia removed its troops from eastern ukraine and crimea.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Algarn on November 24, 2015, 06:01:14 pm
Kebab removal is coming.

Joke aside, it's gonna go full retard now. I just hope it won't degenerate into a war.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Asheram on November 24, 2015, 06:12:34 pm
Turkey (Erdogan) supports the terrorists, as well as trains them and gets a nice discount on oil. But sure, fuck Russia for intervening and bombing a rapidly spreading terrorist self-proclaimed state that declared Jihad on anyone who's not  into stoning. I swear to God, some people have such hatred for Russia that it just clouds their judgement. Thankfully not everyone is like you, even the comments for the youtube video below show it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9UJcX_UVB0

P.S. apparently i suck at inserting YT videos , but whatever
remove the s from https
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: cup457 on November 24, 2015, 06:45:01 pm
US officials say that the plane was only in Turkey for "seconds" so idk what that means. However when the missle was launched the plane was .62 miles inside the border. Shooting down a plane is more or less an act of war because plane violate different countries airspaces all the time. Turkey did it over 2000 times in 2014 to Greece. US forces will not support Turkey either so lets all hope that Constantinople is retaken.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 24, 2015, 06:51:32 pm
Hopefully Turkey gets kicked out of nato for this stunt and the war front expands into turkey, If the other major countries back turkey on this I will be disgusted... Turkey is pretty much openly defending islamic extremists with these actions.

Sad the pilots seem to have been found dead... But honestly that is probably better than being captured by whatever muslims happen to be on the ground where they land... I'm sure ISIS would have had a field day with two captured russian pilots if they were taken alive.  :cry:
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 24, 2015, 06:57:17 pm
Now we know what happened to the Russian Pilots...
You can clearly see at least one is alive while he descends to the ground.


Fucking muslims.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Beauchamp on November 24, 2015, 06:58:42 pm
Now we know what happened to the Russian Pilots...
You can clearly see at least one is alive while he descends to the ground.


Fucking muslims.

on the other video the russian pilots had white parachutes, this guy has red one. is it really him/them?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Knute on November 24, 2015, 07:01:29 pm
Not surprised this happened, there's been a history of provocations and Syrian/Turkish planes shot down on the border. This article is from October detailing a recent incident:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34453739 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34453739)




Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 07:02:08 pm
US officials say that the plane was only in Turkey for "seconds" so idk what that means. However when the missle was launched the plane was .62 miles inside the border. Shooting down a plane is more or less an act of war because plane violate different countries airspaces all the time. Turkey did it over 2000 times in 2014 to Greece. US forces will not support Turkey either so lets all hope that Constantinople is retaken.
How about some sources for these various claims?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 24, 2015, 07:03:17 pm
on the other video the russian pilots had white parachutes, this guy has red one. is it really him/them?

It could be a video of another event, but more likely it has to do with camera lighting... I think small objects recorded from such distances tend to lose a lot of their color and either just appear dark or bright. I could be completely wrong here. But this isn't the only footage of muslims shooting at parachuters reported to be the russian pilots.

Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 24, 2015, 07:28:41 pm
They shot down the rescue helicopter searching for the downed pilots too?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on November 24, 2015, 07:31:24 pm
They shot down the rescue helicopter searching for the downed pilots too?

Yep. News sources say the bearded apes on the ground shot it down.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 24, 2015, 07:36:37 pm
This will not escalate into full fledged war between Turkey and Russia. Dust will settle soon and Russia will a find a way in the future to punish Turkey for this incident.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 24, 2015, 07:38:51 pm
They shot down the rescue helicopter searching for the downed pilots too?
not turkey but rebels, it was empty already
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 24, 2015, 07:41:32 pm
They shot down the rescue helicopter searching for the downed pilots too?

Looks like the FSA blew up russian rescue helicopter which already was landed on the ground... Using a TOW Missile built and delivered to FSA rebels by Obama Administration.

https://www.rt.com/news/323306-video-russia-helicopter-syria/

This is the muslim scum the U.S. has been arming, training and supporting in hopes of toppling Assad regime.
I see no difference between them an ISIS other than the fact they wear different fatigues.

At least now the whole world will start to see the U.S. has a warped goal in arming FSA rebels rather than treating them for what they are... More islamic extremists that share many of the same goals as ISIS.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 24, 2015, 07:46:17 pm
Looks like the FSA blew up russian rescue helicopter which already was landed on the ground... Using a TOW Missile build and delivered to FSA rebels by Obama.

https://www.rt.com/news/323306-video-russia-helicopter-syria/
yep 1 died and all others retuned to base https://twitter.com/Ibra_Joudeh/status/669207777420668928/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 24, 2015, 07:49:01 pm
Russia should send tons of boots on the ground and blitzkrieg the rebels and ISIS and then martial law the whole country and Gestapo the fuck out of every house.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 24, 2015, 07:56:50 pm
Russia should send tons of boots on the ground and blitzkrieg the rebels and ISIS and then martial law the whole country and Gestapo the fuck out of every house.

Just send a nuke to mecca every year during the pilgrimage.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Molly on November 24, 2015, 08:13:34 pm
Looks like the FSA blew up russian rescue helicopter which already was landed on the ground... Using a TOW Missile built and delivered to FSA rebels by Obama Administration.

https://www.rt.com/news/323306-video-russia-helicopter-syria/

This is the muslim scum the U.S. has been arming, training and supporting in hopes of toppling Assad regime.
I see no difference between them an ISIS other than the fact they wear different fatigues.

At least now the whole world will start to see the U.S. has a warped goal in arming FSA rebels rather than treating them for what they are... More islamic extremists that share many of the same goals as ISIS.
At 0:38 in the video... that symbol on the control panel...

(click to show/hide)

I might be wrong...
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 24, 2015, 08:14:34 pm
Now we know what happened to the Russian Pilots...
You can clearly see at least one is alive while he descends to the ground.


Fucking muslims.


dat old video and syrian pilot


Looks like a montage between syrian pilot being shot, and Russian fighter recent crash.

Why the hate about shooting at parachuted pilots though? I can understand that this is a dick move, but try parachuting into your enemy's territory and talk me later about how shit went down.
The nasty thing is that they died because of Turkey basically... They were already lucky to have survived the missile strike, but then this.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 24, 2015, 08:20:35 pm
Just send a nuke to mecca every year during the pilgrimage.

Radiation is a bitch. Also if Turkey keeps fucking over the Kurds, I bet Russia and Kurds will be starting to get more friendly with eachother.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 24, 2015, 08:24:06 pm
The nasty thing is that they died because of Turkey basically... They were already lucky to have survived the missile strike, but then this.
They died because of Turkey? No?! Say it ain't so! Usually shooting missiles at people only has good consequences!
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: cup457 on November 24, 2015, 08:27:54 pm
How about some sources for these various claims?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/index.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/turkish-and-greek-jets-engaged-in-dogfight-2015-7
my bad they only violate greeces airspace 10/17 times in 2014. RESPECTO UR AIRSPACE BUT WE WONT RESPECT YOURS -turkey
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Knute on November 24, 2015, 08:46:06 pm
From another article about the buildup to this, Turkey warned Russia a few days ago about bombing Turkmen villages on their border:

Quote
Turkey has warned Russia it has every right to retaliate and take necessary measures in the event its border security is threatened as a result of the Russian military’s operations targeting civilian Turkmen Syrians on the Turkish-Syrian border.

The warning was conveyed to Russian Ambassador to Turkey Andrei Karlov on Nov. 19, as he was summoned to the Foreign Ministry in reaction to Russian air strikes on Turkmen villages in northwestern Syria only a few kilometers from the Turkish border, daily Hürriyet has learned from reliable sources.

Quote
Assad in efforts to open a corridor to Idlib

In response to Turkey’s statements, Russian diplomatic and military sources argued the targets of their operations were terrorist groups and they did not conduct attacks on Turkmens.

However, according to assessments by counties in the U.S.-led coalition, Russia and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s regime were trying to open a corridor to Idlib, a northern city under the control of a coalition of opposition forces. Attacks being carried out around Jisr al-Shughur, a northern Syrian town only 20 kilometers from the Turkish border, aimed to take control of this very strategic spot to reach Idlib, the assessments indicated.

The Moscow-Damascus duo was trying to increase the area under their influence before the ceasefire to be implemented on Jan 1, 2016, according to the coalition countries. They believed al-Assad is trying to strengthen his authority in areas under his control and at the same establish a buffer zone around the enclave he is ruling.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-warns-russia-over-border-security.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91568&NewsCatID=510 (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-warns-russia-over-border-security.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91568&NewsCatID=510)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 24, 2015, 08:56:55 pm
This is the muslim scum the U.S. has been arming, training and supporting in hopes of toppling Assad regime.
I see no difference between them an ISIS other than the fact they wear different fatigues.

At least now the whole world will start to see the U.S. has a warped goal in arming FSA rebels rather than treating them for what they are... More islamic extremists that share many of the same goals as ISIS.


   Well this is the stance Russia wanted to take. Russia made it clear it will not distinguish between the FSA and ISIS. Assad and Russia have no ground forces in eastern Syria, which means there is no way of controlling the border with Turkey. Letting ISIS control that border is not an option especially when Europe has left the door wide open for these Islamic State "refugees".
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 24, 2015, 09:01:44 pm
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Latvian on November 24, 2015, 09:06:58 pm
i wonder who western world hates more,  russians or isis and why do kebabs keep yelling allahu akbar like retards, isnt 1 time enough?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 24, 2015, 09:13:01 pm
Russias planes getting lost in some territory they shouldnt be, happens all the freaking time. NATO fighters near a base in my country keep flying almost weekly to escort another lost motherlands bomber. If I didnt know any better, they are doing it on purpose, to pretend like they have some moral high ground when their stupid ass plane actually ends up getting shot. Like now. Once again their drunk pilots just dont give a shit and fly randomly everywhere and now its everybody elses fault an actual accident happened this time. Bitch please. Who are they trying to convince that its not their fault? Belarussia?

I quite often think about wtf are those russian pilots thinking back at their base. I mean, this shit happens so often, I get the impression they are playing the "dare" game and laughing about it loudly whenever they get back to base. "So comrad Igor, bottle of vodka, if you fly into NATO territory and not make WWIII". To which comrad Igor immediately puts on his helmet and flies away. Because their officials dont really give a crap and neither does Kremlin. Everything is fine, if Igor gets back to base and the motherlands jet is unharmed, even if it broke like 6 country borders.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 24, 2015, 09:40:44 pm
Russias planes getting lost in some territory they shouldnt be, happens all the freaking time. NATO fighters near a base in my country keep flying almost weekly to escort another lost motherlands bomber. If I didnt know any better, they are doing it on purpose, to pretend like they have some moral high ground when their stupid ass plane actually ends up getting shot. Like now. Once again their drunk pilots just dont give a shit and fly randomly everywhere and now its everybody elses fault an actual accident happened this time. Bitch please. Who are they trying to convince that its not their fault? Belarussia?

I quite often think about wtf are those russian pilots thinking back at their base. I mean, this shit happens so often, I get the impression they are playing the "dare" game and laughing about it loudly whenever they get back to base. "So comrad Igor, bottle of vodka, if you fly into NATO territory and not make WWIII". To which comrad Igor immediately puts on his helmet and flies away. Because their officials dont really give a crap and neither does Kremlin. Everything is fine, if Igor gets back to base and the motherlands jet is unharmed, even if it broke like 6 country borders.
each of your new post does not bring anything new, I am sure you will die with the same words, without seeing the attack treacherous Russian
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Christo on November 24, 2015, 09:42:10 pm
each of your new post does not bring anything new, I am sure you will die with the same words, without seeing the attack treacherous Russian

shaddap and rash B suka blyat ))
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 24, 2015, 09:42:48 pm
Russias planes getting lost in some territory they shouldnt be, happens all the freaking time. NATO fighters near a base in my country keep flying almost weekly to escort another lost motherlands bomber. If I didnt know any better, they are doing it on purpose, to pretend like they have some moral high ground when their stupid ass plane actually ends up getting shot. Like now. Once again their drunk pilots just dont give a shit and fly randomly everywhere and now its everybody elses fault an actual accident happened this time. Bitch please. Who are they trying to convince that its not their fault? Belarussia?

I quite often think about wtf are those russian pilots thinking back at their base. I mean, this shit happens so often, I get the impression they are playing the "dare" game and laughing about it loudly whenever they get back to base. "So comrad Igor, bottle of vodka, if you fly into NATO territory and not make WWIII". To which comrad Igor immediately puts on his helmet and flies away. Because their officials dont really give a crap and neither does Kremlin. Everything is fine, if Igor gets back to base and the motherlands jet is unharmed, even if it broke like 6 country borders.

I feel sorry for the Russian pilots. But this is what happens when you lie constantly, and then cover up it up with more lies. The Turkish government summoned the Russian ambassador in October and gave out a strict warning which was mostly laughed off by the Kremlin. Flying over and violating Turkish airspace undermines Turkey's credibility and makes Turkey appear weak, that's exactly why they do it.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 24, 2015, 09:49:19 pm
From another article about the buildup to this, Turkey warned Russia a few days ago about bombing Turkmen villages on their border:

Oh please... Turkey isn't doing this because of national defense of their borders...
They are doing it because of Russia recently started bombing all the oil going from ISIS into Turkey.
Now Turkey isn't getting the oil from ISIS and they are pissed because they are losing out on millions, potentially billions of dollars from the destruction of their ISIS muslim brothers.

Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 24, 2015, 09:57:55 pm
Oh please... Turkey isn't doing this because of national defense of their borders...
They are doing it because of Russia recently started bombing all the oil going from ISIS into Turkey.
Now Turkey isn't getting the oil from ISIS and they are pissed because they are losing out on millions, potentially billions of dollars from the destruction of their ISIS muslim brothers.


 So what, proves absolutely nothing. The US Air Force destroyed over 300 ISIS oil trucks and a refinery last week. The only difference is we gave the truck drivers (who were probably forced to run the oil) a warning and a chance to run for their lives before we dropped the bombs.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ujin on November 24, 2015, 09:59:01 pm
I feel sorry for the Russian pilots. But this is what happens when you lie constantly, and then cover up it up with more lies. The Turkish government summoned the Russian ambassador in October and gave out a strict warning which was mostly laughed off by the Kremlin. Flying over and violating Turkish airspace undermines Turkey's credibility and makes Turkey appear weak, that's exactly why they do it.
Cause, while you're busy fighting a very-well financed and large force that has a very catchy "allahu akhbar!" motto, it's extremely important to keep track of what's really urgent and waste money, fuel, time and resources just to make a certain country appear "weak". Lol come on, think.
What this might be really about though is that Russia's been substantially disrupting the Isis-Turkey oil exchange, which allegedly is controlled by Erdogans beloved son.

But don't mind me, believe whatever you want. Those pesky daredevil Russian pilots got what they deserved for flying over Turkey (which, btw, isn't even a sure thing to claim, even Pentagon with their obvious bias are waiting on this before making any statements).

In any case, i actually tend to agree with Leshma on the topic of Russia's response. I think it won't be as obvious and dramatic in terms of publicity and media coverage. One of the more believable (to me, at least) ways to get back at Turkey for this might be that Russia will start supporting  Kurds, either with providing them with weapons and finances or diplomatically, maybe both.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 24, 2015, 10:03:43 pm
each of your new post does not bring anything new, I am sure you will die with the same words, without seeing the attack treacherous Russian

I think so too. Im quite sure comrad Igor will never bomb me, but I think he still deserves to receive some shit for being a massive hypocrite, while he's the one accepting national relations related dares for years now. :lol:
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 24, 2015, 10:11:43 pm
Cause, while you're busy fighting a very-well financed and large force that has a very catchy "allahu akhbar!" motto, it's extremely important to keep track of what's really urgent and waste money, fuel, time and resources just to make a certain country appear "weak". Lol come on, think.
What this might be really about though is that Russia's been substantially disrupting the Isis-Turkey oil exchange, which allegedly is controlled by Erdogans beloved son.

But don't mind me, believe whatever you want. Those pesky daredevil Russian pilots got what they deserved for flying over Turkey (which, btw, isn't even a sure thing to claim, even Pentagon with their obvious bias are waiting on this before making any statements).

In any case, i actually tend to agree with Leshma on the topic of Russia's response. I think it won't be as obvious and dramatic in terms of publicity and media coverage. One of the more believable (to me, at least) ways to get back at Turkey for this might be that Russia will start supporting  Kurds, either with providing them with weapons and finances or diplomatically, maybe both.

 Russia is more interested in manipulating the Oil economy than the United States is. Russia is dependent on exporting oil, the United States is not. A pipeline through Syria into Turkey is bad business for Russian interests, but will have no effect on the US either way. I find it hilarious that these oil accusations come from a country who's economy is 90% dependent on manipulating the oil market to export oil to Europe at a higher cost, especially when the US has been bombing these oil depots, refineries and trucks for years.

Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ujin on November 24, 2015, 10:16:30 pm
Russia is more interested in manipulating the Oil economy than the United States is. Russia is dependent on exporting oil, the United States is not. A pipeline through Syria into Turkey is bad business for Russian interests, but will have no effect on the US either way. I find it hilarious that these oil accusations come from a country who's economy is 90% dependent on manipulating the oil market to export oil to Europe at a higher cost, especially when the US has been bombing these oil depots, refineries and trucks for years.
I'm glad we both can at least agree that your previous statement was nonsensical  now that you're diverting to your views on global economy. Oh and where did i mention the U.S.  ?
Regardless of what you find hilarious, you've actually just reinforced my argument there. Russia may strongly depend on oil, but  where do you think all that oil from ISIS goes? And yeah, surely the famed US bombings of ISIS were really helpful...lol
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Thryn on November 24, 2015, 10:18:26 pm
russia gonna get some nice turkey for thanksgiving
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 24, 2015, 10:33:33 pm
I'm glad we both can at least agree that your previous statement was nonsensical  now that you're diverting to your views on global economy. Oh and where did i mention the U.S.  ?

 No different than the majority of Islamic terrorist organizations who sell opium and heroin to finance their organizations. These are the realities of dealing with corrupt countries. These countries are very corrupt and they don't have the same kind of resources western nations do to totally stop these incidents from occurring, that doesn't mean the actual government condones it, although i'm sure there are quite a few corrupt officials who are paid off.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Umbra on November 24, 2015, 10:36:43 pm
Fallout 5 is gonna have super realistic graphics  :lol:
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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 24, 2015, 10:39:26 pm
So what, proves absolutely nothing. The US Air Force destroyed over 300 ISIS oil trucks and a refinery last week. The only difference is we gave the truck drivers (who were probably forced to run the oil) a warning and a chance to run for their lives before we dropped the bombs.

Please source your facts that we destroyed 300 trucks in a week.

Also, Russia did the same thing dropping leaflets and telling all truck drivers to abandon vehicles and run... That's why you see in the video none of the trucks are mobile.
Maybe you read the articles about russia bombing oil trucks and assumed it was america?

Only bombing I heard US doing lately was on a single refinery which was repaired an in use in less than a month after they struck it... Which was shortly before russia started going after the oil tanker trucks.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Knute on November 24, 2015, 11:11:51 pm
Oh please... Turkey isn't doing this because of national defense of their borders...
They are doing it because of Russia recently started bombing all the oil going from ISIS into Turkey.
Now Turkey isn't getting the oil from ISIS and they are pissed because they are losing out on millions, potentially billions of dollars from the destruction of their ISIS muslim brothers.

No this is nothing new. There's a history of countries involved shooting down each other's jets for violating airspace, Russia violated Turkish airspace a few times in October and was warned this might happen.

2012 - Syria shot down a Turkish recon plan over the Mediterranean for violating it's airspace for a few minutes

2014 - Israel shot down a Syrian MiG for crossing the cease fire line in the Golan Heights

From wikipedia:

Quote

On 23 March 2014, one MiG-23 was shot down by a Turkish Air Force F-16, when it allegedly entered Turkish air space during a ground attack mission against Al Qaeda-linked insurgents.[73] The pilot ejected and managed to return to a Syrian Army checkpoint and denies violating Turkish air space. The plane crashed one kilometer inside the Syrian side

On 16 May 2015, two Turkish F-16s shot down a Syrian Mohajer 4 UAV firing two AIM-9 missiles after it trespassed into Turkish airspace for 5 minutes. Witnesses on the ground reported seeing the target after being hit by the chasing F-16s breaking in three before crashing on the Syrian side of the border. Initially Turkey claimed it was an helicopter, but later confirmed it was an UAV.



Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 24, 2015, 11:26:14 pm
Please source your facts that we destroyed 300 trucks in a week.

Also, Russia did the same thing dropping leaflets and telling all truck drivers to abandon vehicles and run... That's why you see in the video none of the trucks are mobile.
Maybe you read the articles about russia bombing oil trucks and assumed it was america?

Only bombing I heard US doing lately was on a single refinery which was repaired an in use in less than a month after they struck it... Which was shortly before russia started going after the oil tanker trucks.

https://www.rt.com/usa/322330-isis-oil-trucks-destroyed/

I mean the number of trucks destroyed is irrelevant. They run their territory like the mafia. I'm sure if you were one of the 8+ million people living under the ISIS caliphate you would smuggle oil across the border for them too. You'd also be praying some shady Turkish guy who doesn't give a shit where it came from bought it from you, so you can bring the money back so ISIS doesn't kill your family.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 24, 2015, 11:36:09 pm
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The end is nigh
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Moncho on November 24, 2015, 11:37:36 pm
russia gonna get some nice turkey for thanksgiving
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 24, 2015, 11:48:34 pm
Russia should send tons of boots on the ground and blitzkrieg the rebels and ISIS and then martial law the whole country and Gestapo the fuck out of every house.

It's a bloody desert, not worth it. Only Jews were desperate enough and blinded by their own religion to try turning desert into a decent place to live. They did mighty fine job, but don't see Russians or anybody else attempting the same. Why would they, when they have plenty of land that is far better than anything middle east has to offer?

Not even Turks want to live in them sand mountains, when they have those nice coastal cities and of course Istanbul.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 25, 2015, 01:14:57 am
https://www.rt.com/usa/322330-isis-oil-trucks-destroyed/

I mean the number of trucks destroyed is irrelevant. They run their territory like the mafia. I'm sure if you were one of the 8+ million people living under the ISIS caliphate you would smuggle oil across the border for them too. You'd also be praying some shady Turkish guy who doesn't give a shit where it came from bought it from you, so you can bring the money back so ISIS doesn't kill your family.

Seems relevant enough to be over-exaggerated...
Taking out 115ish trucks when there is reported to be thousands of oil trucks controlled by ISIS... That's like a publicity stunt in reaction to the attacks on paris. They just gonna take an extra 115 trucks out of the parking lot storage and continue on their daily routine. Maybe you should be asking why we don't continue destroying 115 trucks daily to actually put a stop to ISIS' main source of income and funding for their muslim terrorist army.

If I was one of the 8+ million people living under ISIS, I would be facing mecca for morning prayers every day yelling allahu ackbar every time someone fires off a gun or an explosion goes off and I would be covering my wife and daughter in burkas and not letting them leave the house without a man escorting them. I would also be cursing at all of the western countries and cheering every time ISIS showed propaganda of brutal executions and the rare occurrences when they manage to down aircraft.

That doesn't make it right or ok.

Thank god I was born in the USA and I can promote prejudice against muslims because they are a global shitstain on this planet.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Kafein on November 25, 2015, 01:23:31 am
remove the s from https

Oh look it's the NSA again.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 25, 2015, 01:35:06 am
It's a bloody desert, not worth it. Only Jews were desperate enough and blinded by their own religion to try turning desert into a decent place to live. They did mighty fine job, but don't see Russians or anybody else attempting the same. Why would they, when they have plenty of land that is far better than anything middle east has to offer?

Not even Turks want to live in them sand mountains, when they have those nice coastal cities and of course Istanbul.

I prefer deserts over cold, forresty land. Plus UAE is looking good.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Zergmar on November 25, 2015, 01:48:12 am
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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 25, 2015, 02:00:05 am
I prefer deserts over cold, forresty land. Plus UAE is looking good.

I don't. Cold places tend to get a bit warmer during the year, you can grow some cultures and hunt wild animals. Desert is bunch of sand, devoid of farm animals with occasional pockets of green and water. Dead and dry terrain that is spreading, threatening to turn Earth into Mars one day.

UAE is fake shit. Once oil runs dry it will collapse.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Turkhammer on November 25, 2015, 03:10:24 am
I don't. Cold places tend to get a bit warmer during the year, you can grow some cultures and hunt wild animals. Desert is bunch of sand, devoid of farm animals with occasional pockets of green and water. Dead and dry terrain that is spreading, threatening to turn Earth into Mars one day.

UAE is fake shit. Once oil runs dry it will collapse.

Nah, Earth won't turn into Mars until the Earth's core solidifies. 
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rando on November 25, 2015, 05:51:35 am

coming soon!
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Kafein on November 25, 2015, 09:35:58 am
So, do we know for how long that Russian plane was inside Turkey's airspace? To me it really sounds like Turkey was itching to shoot them down and jumped at the first excuse.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 25, 2015, 09:47:03 am
So, do we know for how long that Russian plane was inside Turkey's airspace? To me it really sounds like Turkey was itching to shoot them down and jumped at the first excuse.

5 seconds in their airspace, they knew he was there for 17 seconds. The active radar missile from the f-16 didn't need an active radar lock because it has it's own onboard radar device, so all they had to do was fire it in his direction when he entered their airspace. Instead of taking him prisoner the rebel turkmen or whoever they were in Syria murdered him, so I imagine they were not happy he was there.

 Seems like a spontaneous situation. The Turks don't want them utilizing their airspace to bomb their border area, and I think the Russian pilot wanted to make sure he bailed out of Turkish airspace which ended up getting him killed. Instead of choosing a different flight path to avoid that area of protruding airspace he flew through it.

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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 25, 2015, 11:44:49 am
Turkish version of the events:
"Two aircraft whose nationalities were unknown had approached Turkish airspace near the town of Yayladagi in Hatay province.
The planes were warned 10 times over the space of five minutes via an "emergency" channel and asked to change direction.
Both planes disregarded the warnings and then flew 2.19km (1.36 miles) and 1.85km (1.15 miles) into Turkey for 17 seconds from 09:24:05 (07:24:05 GMT).
"Following the violation, plane 1 left Turkish national airspace. Plane 2 was fired at while in Turkish national airspace by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in the area," Mr Cevik wrote. "Plane 2 crashed onto the Syria side of the Turkish-Syrian border."
"

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No war at least yet, but the area will be a real hot zone:

"Breaking off military contacts with Turkey, Russia's defence ministry said a cruiser equipped with an air defence system would be deployed in the Mediterranean to destroy "any targets representing a potential danger" for Russian forces in Syria.
Russian bombers carrying out air strikes over Syria will now be escorted by fighters, the military said.
"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34917485

They will also be sending the S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, the most advanced in Russia's arsenal.
https://www.rt.com/news/323379-s400-russia-syria-airbase/


Turkey appears to still have Nato backing:

"Nato Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg declared: "We stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our Nato ally."
"I look forward to further contacts between Ankara and Moscow and call for calm and de-escalation," he added.
"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34912581

Also, one of the pilots survived.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on November 25, 2015, 12:35:15 pm
So, do we know for how long that Russian plane was inside Turkey's airspace? To me it really sounds like Turkey was itching to shoot them down and jumped at the first excuse.

Obviously Tardogan had been growing desperate. His last resort were the Jihadist gangs in that region, the lowlifes who everyone has been claiming are innocent Turkmens. And now Russia is exterminating them. I initially thought this was a well-planned NATO move aimed at intimidation. However, it is clearly an act of desperation.

Clues can be found in yesterday's gathering where Tardogan addressed a roomful of teachers on the occasion of Teachers' Day. He tells the teachers about the hit (who the fuck talks to teachers about an international conflict on Teachers' Day?). Being the sheep they are, they applaud heartily. And then something unexpected happens. Tardogan stops them and says "it's not something to be cheerful about and he wishes it had never had to happen".

Tardogan simply loves being pampered and cheered for. The biggest hint that says he knows he is in deep shit appears at a very unexpected moment. GG Tardogan. Don't RQ on me now.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 25, 2015, 01:02:30 pm
One way to get even without invading Turkey and starting WW3 is bombing the fuck out of ISIS and those Turkmen villages in Syria.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Paul on November 25, 2015, 01:32:35 pm
"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack"
- Erdo-Khan, 2012

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18598529 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18598529)

Time's flying, another never went by like nothing.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Jarlek on November 25, 2015, 01:37:04 pm
Why the hate about shooting at parachuted pilots though? I can understand that this is a dick move, but try parachuting into your enemy's territory and talk me later about how shit went down.
Because it's a warcrime. Shooting paratroopers is allowed, but shooting someone parachuting as a result of having their aircraft disabled/destroyed/malfunctioned is not.

Ofc, nobody expects arabs to follow any kind of laws, so it's not a surprise.

EDIT: Changed plane to aircraft.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 25, 2015, 01:42:06 pm
Turkish version of the events:
"Two aircraft whose nationalities were unknown had approached Turkish airspace near the town of Yayladagi in Hatay province.
The planes were warned 10 times over the space of five minutes via an "emergency" channel and asked to change direction.
Turkey pilot "Allah akbar, allah akbar, allah akbar, allah akbar, allah akbar, allah akbar, allah akbar, allah akbar, allah akbar, allah akbar"
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 25, 2015, 01:57:49 pm
Because it's a warcrime. Shooting paratroopers is allowed, but shooting someone parachuting as a result of having their aircraft disabled/destroyed/malfunctioned is not.


Didnt know that, thanks.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 25, 2015, 02:44:35 pm
Because it's a warcrime. Shooting paratroopers is allowed, but shooting someone parachuting as a result of having their aircraft disabled/destroyed/malfunctioned is not.

Ofc, nobody expects arabs to follow any kind of laws, so it's not a surprise.

EDIT: Changed plane to aircraft.
Whether it's morally wrong or not is another question. Say they'd been bombing targets ("infantry" or whatever you want to call the mob) on the ground, those targets have no way to fight back and just have to endure it. The pilots won't stop their attacks just because it's unfair and they're at no risk. Why then should they receive the courtesy of not being shot at when they're vulnerable and can't fight back?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 25, 2015, 03:02:25 pm

http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2491068.html (rus)
 and google translate:
https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcolonelcassad.livejournal.com%2F2491068.html&edit-text=
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Beauchamp on November 25, 2015, 03:42:29 pm
russians entered turkish airspace on multiple occasions before, they were warned multiple times before, they did it again, they were shot. where is the problem? if somebody repeatedly behaves like a retard, then sometimes only a retard like answer can be a solution to the problem.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Molly on November 25, 2015, 04:23:26 pm
Whether it's morally wrong or not is another question. Say they'd been bombing targets ("infantry" or whatever you want to call the mob) on the ground, those targets have no way to fight back and just have to endure it. The pilots won't stop their attacks just because it's unfair and they're at no risk. Why then should they receive the courtesy of not being shot at when they're vulnerable and can't fight back?
Quote
Attacking people parachuting from an aircraft in distress is a war crime under Protocol I in addition to the 1949 Geneva Conventions. However, it is not prohibited under this Protocol to open fire on airborne troops who are descending by parachutes, even if their aircraft is in distress.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 25, 2015, 04:29:00 pm

And? Who cares if it's a war crime?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Molly on November 25, 2015, 04:38:59 pm
And? Who cares if it's a war crime?
Russia most likely :P
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 25, 2015, 04:41:15 pm
Russia most likely :P
Yes, Russia is going to kill them twice, nay, thrice, more dead than it would have if they'd killed the pilots in a Gentlemanly And Noble Way In Accordance With The Geneva-Who-Cares-Convention.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 25, 2015, 05:07:42 pm
Geneva convention is rubbish, no one is sticking to those rules of warfare. The only rule in war is there's no rules.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Jarlek on November 25, 2015, 05:19:59 pm
Geneva convention is rubbish, no one is sticking to those rules of warfare. The only rule in war is there's no rules.
Except it's not? While it's still too many countries ignoring specific parts and letting incidents go unpunished; it's a massive difference between post Geneva convention warfare and before.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 25, 2015, 05:20:09 pm
Geneva convention is rubbish, no one is sticking to those rules of warfare. The only rule in war is there's no rules.
Yes, anyone can look up how many people have actually gotten indicted. US, Israel, Russia etc don't even accept ICC jurisdiction over their nationals. It's a joke.

What's an even bigger joke? The notion that there are "war crimes." As if war is like soccer, a game, with rules and punishments. As if it's a gentlemanly and reasonable affair. War is already the ultimate escalation and has the ultimate consequence, death, for its participants. It's like making up rules for murder; you're both implying murder is fine as long as you follow the rules and that the murderer will care about rules once they've decided to kill someone.

Except it's not? While it's still too many countries ignoring specific parts and letting incidents go unpunished; it's a massive difference between post Geneva convention warfare and before.
There is a massive difference? Howso?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 25, 2015, 05:31:58 pm
Like use of chemical weapons, to name the most obvious.
Geneva rules works as long as most people agree to them. Call it warfare peer pressure.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 25, 2015, 05:41:24 pm
Like use of chemical weapons, to name the most obvious.
Geneva rules works as long as most people agree to them. Call it warfare peer pressure.
Only because there are no reasons to use chemical weapons.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Paul on November 25, 2015, 05:50:48 pm
They make war rather uncomfortable. Or at least preparing for it.

Source: Me, hating my ABC-gear back in the Bundeswehr.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Knute on November 25, 2015, 05:53:23 pm
I doubt the Turkomen who shot the pilot have ever even heard of the Geneva convention. These are mostly former civilians who took up arms against their government and not professional soldiers. It's sad what happened to the Russian pilots but they're involved in a brutal war with every side committing atrocities.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 25, 2015, 05:55:06 pm
Except it's not? While it's still too many countries ignoring specific parts and letting incidents go unpunished; it's a massive difference between post Geneva convention warfare and before.

Not really. Biggest difference we don't have World War going right now but these localized conflicts around the world are dirty as hell. Your country is part of NATO, isn't it? NATO isn't really sticking to its own rules you know.

Edit: Can't help not to bring UN into this. Glorious UN say this:

European border restrictions endanger refugees, migrants, especially children, UN agencies warn (http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=52613)

Everybody involved is like

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So much for UN and Geneva convention. Pretty on paper, nonexistent in practice.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 25, 2015, 06:05:47 pm
I doubt the Turkomen who shot the pilot have ever even heard of the Geneva convention. These are mostly former civilians who took up arms against their government and not professional soldiers. It's sad what happened to the Russian pilots but they're involved in a brutal war with every side committing atrocities.
According to the Turkomen, they were bombed by those planes just prior to them being shot down. Why on Earth would a reasonable person expect them to hold fire when the pilot is parachuting considering that same pilot was fine bombing them (killing their friends, trying to kill them) from safety just moments ago?

It's like a bully kicking someone in a wheel chair, then crying "no fair!" when they end up in a wheel chair and someone kicks them.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Jarlek on November 25, 2015, 06:07:12 pm
Red cross/crescent for starters.

Then we got PoW treatment, the requirements of uniform, interference by non-interested parties to prevent human suffering (bosnian war and shitting on the bosnian serbs), anything related to non-related countries citizens caught in the war zone.

And let's not forget how looting, raiding and pillaging is practically non-existant in modern war. (Yes, I know rebels/guerrillas still loot&raid, but going from "every soldier, everywhere, ever loots, at any possible opportunity" to "certain small, underfunded and desperate groups does it, when they can" is a fucking gigantic change)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 25, 2015, 06:14:05 pm
Red cross/crescent for starters.

Then we got PoW treatment, the requirements of uniform, interference by non-interested parties to prevent human suffering (bosnian war and shitting on the bosnian serbs), anything related to non-related countries citizens caught in the war zone.

And let's not forget how looting, raiding and pillaging is practically non-existant in modern war. (Yes, I know rebels/guerrillas still loot&raid, but going from "every soldier, everywhere, ever loots, at any possible opportunity" to "certain small, underfunded and desperate groups does it, when they can" is a fucking gigantic change)
What about Red cross?

Requirements of uniform, here's a good example of "no one caring":

Quote
The application of the Geneva Conventions to the 2014 conflict in the Ukraine (Crimea) is a troublesome problem because some of the personnel who engaged in combat against the Ukrainians were not identified by insignia, although they did wear military-style fatigues.[40] American pilots in Operation Southern Watch were documented to bear no insignia, so as to gain some illusory intelligence advantage.[40]

And you really think US SOF (for example) wears uniforms when it serves their purposes not to?

News are full of "war crime!" cries but nothing ever gets done about it.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 25, 2015, 06:22:14 pm
Red cross/crescent for starters.

Then we got PoW treatment, the requirements of uniform, interference by non-interested parties to prevent human suffering (bosnian war and shitting on the bosnian serbs), anything related to non-related countries citizens caught in the war zone.

And let's not forget how looting, raiding and pillaging is practically non-existant in modern war. (Yes, I know rebels/guerrillas still loot&raid, but going from "every soldier, everywhere, ever loots, at any possible opportunity" to "certain small, underfunded and desperate groups does it, when they can" is a fucking gigantic change)

Then the wars I've went through weren't modern. Because I've witnessed looting, raiding and pillaging with my own eyes. It wasn't done by rebels/guerrillas. That's cool thing about war, it is hard to tell decent soldiers from bastards. After few months everybody turn into a bastard. Only way to avoid committing war crime yourself is to exit early, mostly by dying on the battlefield or if you're lucky you end up being critically wounded and they send you back home.

War is a dirty situation, no place for noble actions. Will get you killed fast. Dunno who feeds you those fairy tales but it is damn obvious non of you who think like that witnessed war with your own eyes.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 25, 2015, 07:13:05 pm
  There have been numerous cases of Russian pilots flying dangerously and illegally into other's airspace. When they do this they turn off their transponders so they don't show up on radar and have had several near misses with commercial airlines when doing so. In this incident it's clear that they were utilizing Turkish airspace to conduct a bombing mission. There was no way to tell whether this was a Syrian or Russian aircraft with it's transponder turned off, and the aircraft had been firing into areas not controlled by ISIS on the Syrian side and had been warned multiple times not to roundabout through Turkish airspace to re-enter that area. This was clearly a case of the Russians saying fuck you, we do what we want gone wrong.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Jarlek on November 25, 2015, 07:14:43 pm
Two options:

1) The Geneva convention changed NOTHING and affected the world NOT ONE BIT and EVERYTHING would be EXACTLY the same.
2) The Geneva convention changed the world in some way.


I know you're an intelligent man Xant, you know which one is true.

As to the DEGREE in which it changed, yeah it didn't make everything sunshine, roses and unicorn farts. I shouldn't have said it was a "massive" change, but a change it was.


And yes, ofc it gets broken all the time. But that's the thing. Parts of it gets broken, all over the place, by various factions. But the majority of it is followed by a majority of anyone fighting. The pro-russian insurgents in ukraine doesn't use uniforms? Doesn't mean that every nation (and a lot of paramilitary or rebel/guerrillas) now has official uniforms to mark them as combatants.
US troops torture prisoners? Yeah, they do, UNLIKE the vast majority of countries.

They made rules, some people break them. Most don't. And I don't know about you, but do you think there would be MORE or LESS actions done that we consider war crimes if we never had made any agreements on what is/isn't a war crime?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 25, 2015, 07:22:49 pm
The most disappointing thing is the muslim scum country turkey is being defended by the UN.
So they can do this shit while hiding behind their UN shield.

They are both going after ISIS, Turkey and US believe that they should give arms and support these so called "moderate" rebel forces (the ones who shot the russian pilots descended by parachute)...
Russia believes they are all terrorists and that removing Assad will have the same effects as when we removed saddam from Iraq... France and a few other countries also have many politicians who agree that Assad is the lesser of two evils, and eliminating Assad with no clear view of who will take over after him is irresponsible and could cause more damage than it solves.

Assad is an evil motherfucker, but he doesn't publicly execute pretty much every western hostage he gets his hands on in heinous ways... burning them alive, running them over with tanks, putting them in a large metal cage and dropping it into a river, hacking heads off with a hunting knife etc... Furthermore Assad is against ISIS as well.

The UN, USA, Turkey and others should stop arming these FSA rebels and just focus on eliminating ISIS... With Turkey, US, Syria, Russia all going after ISIS and FSA rebels in Syria we could eliminate all the terrorist scum in syria in a matter of months. Then we wouldn't have FSA rebels armed with high tech weaponry from UN countries fighting against Russia who is destroying ISIS.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: pogosan on November 25, 2015, 07:23:39 pm
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 25, 2015, 07:25:41 pm
Two options:

1) The Geneva convention changed NOTHING and affected the world NOT ONE BIT and EVERYTHING would be EXACTLY the same.
2) The Geneva convention changed the world in some way.


I know you're an intelligent man Xant, you know which one is true.

As to the DEGREE in which it changed, yeah it didn't make everything sunshine, roses and unicorn farts. I shouldn't have said it was a "massive" change, but a change it was.


And yes, ofc it gets broken all the time. But that's the thing. Parts of it gets broken, all over the place, by various factions. But the majority of it is followed by a majority of anyone fighting. The pro-russian insurgents in ukraine doesn't use uniforms? Doesn't mean that every nation (and a lot of paramilitary or rebel/guerrillas) now has official uniforms to mark them as combatants.
US troops torture prisoners? Yeah, they do, UNLIKE the vast majority of countries.

They made rules, some people break them. Most don't. And I don't know about you, but do you think there would be MORE or LESS actions done that we consider war crimes if we never had made any agreements on what is/isn't a war crime?

There was nothing even indicating that the aircraft they downed was Russian. They probably thought it was a Syrian aircraft, and killed the pilot. His transponder was turned off, and Syrian aircraft have been shot down doing the same thing before, flying the same aircraft. Most countries don't let an unidentified aircraft fly into their territory so it can crash into a commercial airline or drop a bomb on their homeland by accident. 7 seconds is a long time when they are traveling 2000 mph.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ikarus on November 25, 2015, 07:27:20 pm
When they do this they turn off their transponders so they don't show up on radar and have had several near misses with commercial airlines when doing so. In this incident it's clear that they were utilizing Turkish airspace to conduct a bombing mission. There was no way to tell whether this was a Syrian or Russian aircraft with it's transponder turned off, and the aircraft had been firing into areas not controlled by ISIS on the Syrian side and had been warned multiple times not to roundabout through Turkish airspace to re-enter that area. This was clearly a case of the Russians saying fuck you, we do what we want gone wrong.
prove it
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 25, 2015, 07:32:31 pm
prove it

They even locked on to a Turkish aircraft

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/nato-chief-jens-stoltenberg-russia-turkish-airspace-violations-syria

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/24/politics/syria-russian-fighter-jets/

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-sweden-intercepts-russian-planes-over-baltic-amid-regional-tensions-2015-3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2012_interception_of_Turkish_aircraft

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/13/russia-plane-near-miss-passenger-aircraft-sweden

http://theaviationist.com/2015/10/12/no-russian-aircraft-shot-down-over-syria/
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 25, 2015, 07:34:42 pm
The world took the path of Geneva convention and more restrained warfare already in 1949. It's hard to argue in exactly what way the world would be different had it taken another path, mostly because it's a reality nobody ever experienced. The best we can do is imaginary "what if" scenarios.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Jarlek on November 25, 2015, 07:47:12 pm
There was nothing even indicating that the aircraft they downed was Russian. They probably thought it was a Syrian aircraft, and killed the pilot. His transponder was turned off, and Syrian aircraft have been shot down doing the same thing before, flying the same aircraft. Most countries don't let an unidentified aircraft fly into their territory so it can crash into a commercial airline or drop a bomb on their homeland by accident. 7 seconds is a long time when they are traveling 2000 mph.
Good points, but why is this in response to me?


Even without a transponder, wouldn't they still have the general direction of the aircraft? They would have seen that it wasn't heading towards central turkey. Still, a military jet fliest fast, and can carry you far in a short time. Without direct vision it might be too late to notice any change of course so sending fighters up to at least watch/get ready to shoot down should be standard procedure.

Oh btw, most countries DO let unidentified aircrafts fly into their territory without shooting them down, but obviously that's because most countries are not in/next to a war.

The world took the path of Geneva convention and more restrained warfare already in 1949. It's hard to argue in exactly what way the world would be different had it taken another path, mostly because it's a reality nobody ever experienced. The best we can do is imaginary "what if" scenarios.
And then we also got the "these things improved, but is that because of Geneva convention, how warfare being fought changing, globalism, different ethics/morales etc. Too many variables
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 25, 2015, 07:57:51 pm
According to generational theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory) we're going to live through world crisis in next 20 years. Although it's controversial and not proven, the planet gets more and more fucked up with every piece of news.


According to declinism theory, we are just never happy  :P
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 25, 2015, 08:02:51 pm
There was nothing even indicating that the aircraft they downed was Russian. They probably thought it was a Syrian aircraft, and killed the pilot. His transponder was turned off, and Syrian aircraft have been shot down doing the same thing before, flying the same aircraft. Most countries don't let an unidentified aircraft fly into their territory so it can crash into a commercial airline or drop a bomb on their homeland by accident. 7 seconds is a long time when they are traveling 2000 mph.

If that was true then how did they warn the pilot a bunch of times that he was entering airpsace?
They warned him in Arabic because they thought it was a syrian aircraft?

Pretty sure they knew it was a russian aircraft, they probably track all aircraft in syria near their borders and could tell it was russian simply by its point of origin being a russian airbase within Syria.

And as has already been stated on this thread, Turkish aircraft have violated its neighbors airspace many of times and never got shot down...

What most countries do is they scramble fighter jets, the fighter jets attempt to hail the aircraft multiple times, if this does not work the scrambled jets fly on both sides of the intruding aircraft and either fire their machine guns off into the air or roll their aircraft back and fourth which is a universal signal that you are being intercepted and the intruding aircraft should then roll back and fourth to acknowledge this and usually signify that they are going to follow the intercept aircraft back to an aircraft landing... If after all this the intercepted aircraft does not respond and continues to fly deeper into a countries airspace then it is shot down.

When two countries aren't at war, they don't sit there with their fingers on the trigger ready to blow any plane out of the sky the moment they cross into their airspace. Of course Turkey is mad because Russia is bombing the FSA rebel scum they have been arming while also bombing ISIS.

Even during the cold war between the U.S. and Soviet Union when the Korean Airlines flight 007 came into Russian Airspace, twice... Intercept jets were scrambled they made visual contact with the aircraft and they fired warning shots multiple times to warn the aircraft... Unfortunately one of the pilots admitted his aircraft was armed with armor piercing bullets which were most likely not seen by anyone on the passenger airliner. After this a commanding officer of the soviet union gave the order to shoot down the aircraft and it was destroyed... Even during the peak of the cold war the soviet union, on edge, did not destroy the aircraft seconds into it flying into soviet union airspace.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 25, 2015, 08:14:28 pm
If that was true then how did they warn the pilot a bunch of times that he was entering airpsace?
They warned him in Arabic because they thought it was a syrian aircraft?

Pretty sure they knew it was a russian aircraft, they probably track all aircraft in syria near their borders and could tell it was russian simply by its point of origin being a russian airbase within Syria.

And as has already been stated on this thread, Turkish aircraft have violated its neighbors airspace many of times and never got shot down...

What most countries do is they scramble fighter jets, the fighter jets attempt to hail the aircraft multiple times, if this does not work the scrambled jets fly on both sides of the intruding aircraft and either fire their machine guns off into the air or roll their aircraft back and fourth which is a universal signal that you are being intercepted and the intruding aircraft should then roll back and fourth to acknowledge this and usually signify that they are going to follow the intercept aircraft back to an aircraft landing... If after all this the intercepted aircraft does not respond and continues to fly deeper into a countries airspace then it is shot down.

When two countries aren't at war, they don't sit there with their fingers on the trigger ready to blow any plane out of the sky the moment they cross into their airspace. Of course Turkey is mad because Russia is bombing the FSA rebel scum they have been arming while also bombing ISIS.

  No it's dumb as fuck. ISIS doesn't have an airforce and he was flying at close to maximum altitude. They use encrypted modes to trick the ground IFF radar so they can't pinpoint their direction or route to avoid a lock on which is why they took him out with a onboard radar guided missile.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Kafein on November 25, 2015, 08:20:53 pm
What's an even bigger joke? The notion that there are "war crimes." As if war is like soccer, a game, with rules and punishments. As if it's a gentlemanly and reasonable affair. War is already the ultimate escalation and has the ultimate consequence, death, for its participants. It's like making up rules for murder; you're both implying murder is fine as long as you follow the rules and that the murderer will care about rules once they've decided to kill someone.

Gee I wonder how we even managed to destroy some of our nuclear weapons.

Amusingly, that idea of war as a fight to the death is a relatively modern 19th century concept tied in with nationalism.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 25, 2015, 08:22:15 pm
  No it's dumb as fuck. ISIS doesn't have an airforce and he was flying at close to maximum altitude. They use encrypted modes to trick the ground IFF radar so they can't pinpoint their direction or route to avoid a lock on which is why they took him out with a onboard radar guided missile.

The russian bomber wasn't flying at even half of its maximum altitude of 17,500m...
You are just pulling this shit out of thin air.

The radar tracking the aircraft can either see the aircraft on radar or it can't there is no tricking it so you can't see it's direction. Only commercial aircraft tracking relies on transponders to visibly see an aircraft. Military radar does not rely on transponders, this is why militarys around the world develop stealth jets and helicopters by manipulating materials used and the angles/edges of the aircraft to reduce it's profile on radar. Turkey had the aircraft visible on it's radar, that's how they knew it was coming into their airspace... You note its location, wait 10 seconds and view its location again and you have a general bearing on the direction of the aircraft this is the utmost basic principle of navigation, this is especially easy to tell the direction of an aircraft when it continues to fly in a straight line for a long distance, as the russian bomber was doing before it crossed into turkish airspace for 17 seconds and was blown out of the sky.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Yarl on November 25, 2015, 08:32:15 pm
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 25, 2015, 09:08:04 pm
The russian bomber wasn't flying at even half of its maximum altitude of 17,500m...
You are just pulling this shit out of thin air.

The radar tracking the aircraft can either see the aircraft on radar or it can't there is no tricking it so you can't see it's direction. Only commercial aircraft tracking relies on transponders to visibly see an aircraft. Military radar does not rely on transponders, this is why militarys around the world develop stealth jets and helicopters by manipulating materials used and the angles/edges of the aircraft to reduce it's profile on radar. Turkey had the aircraft visible on it's radar, that's how they knew it was coming into their airspace... You note its location, wait 10 seconds and view its location again and you have a general bearing on the direction of the aircraft this is the utmost basic principle of navigation, this is especially easy to tell the direction of an aircraft when it continues to fly in a straight line for a long distance, as the russian bomber was doing before it crossed into turkish airspace for 17 seconds and was blown out of the sky.

I read that on RT which has changed their story several times now. And also no shit it showed up on radar, those Russian aircraft are outdated as all fuck, that doesn't change the fact that it was still an unidentified aircraft that tried to deceive the system.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 25, 2015, 09:12:34 pm
Russian version of the flight path of the downed plane:

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Comparison of the two stories:
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The surviving pilot claims Turkey gave no warning:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34925229
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Perverz on November 25, 2015, 10:06:13 pm
https://www.facebook.com/zikomarko/videos/1259857340706855/
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 25, 2015, 10:23:34 pm
At this point there wont be a place on earth that Russia does not hate with passion. :lol:  USA is lying empire trying to take their motherland, Europe is fascistland thats controlled by jews, entire middle-East without any exeptions is ISIS. South-America and Africa are irrelevant to them and and all thats left is China. Other parts of Asia that are not powerful or Westhating enough to be worthy of having diplomatic relations with.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 25, 2015, 11:01:24 pm
Which Russia? Russian people or Russian "elite"?

Reading this thread I came to conclusion that few people have strong feelings towards Turkey, for some reason. Not sure I understand why is that, it's not like those pilots were their countrymen.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: the real god emperor on November 25, 2015, 11:41:43 pm
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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 26, 2015, 04:20:56 am
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2015/11/turkey-violated-greek-airspace-2244-times-last-year-3248726.html

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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 26, 2015, 04:26:19 am
Maybe Greece should shoot a Turkish plane when it does the same shit in the future.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 26, 2015, 04:31:53 am
It will be hilarious :lol:

USA would probably kick Greece from NATO, calling them Russian pawns or something like that. Beauchamp, being poor Czech hating on everything Greek and Russian would be happy I guess.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 26, 2015, 09:41:02 am
It will be hilarious :lol:
USA would probably kick Greece from NATO, calling them Russian pawns or something like that. Beauchamp, being poor Czech hating on everything Greek and Russian would be happy I guess.

Oh you know they would...

Then U.S. would start arming all the anarchists in greece to have them overthrow the government... Greece government in turn will start arming the ultra nationalists to keep the anarchists in check... Meanwhile Russia will start arming the Kurds to overthrow turkey government... Turkey will continue arming FSA rebels to overthrow assad... Assad will look towards russia to continue helping to quell armed muslims...

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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Beauchamp on November 26, 2015, 09:49:43 am
It will be hilarious :lol:

USA would probably kick Greece from NATO, calling them Russian pawns or something like that. Beauchamp, being poor Czech hating on everything Greek and Russian would be happy I guess.

There is a tiny difference:
- both countries are in NATO
- Turkey doesn't bomb other country at Greece borders

But I can imagine a situation when Greece could down a Turkish plane. Other's borders should be sacred as well as others property etc.

I as a poor Czech btw don't hate everything, on Greece I like the country itself (its one of very few countries I'd like to visit again as a tourist), food etc. but I just dislike the regular Greeks and especially their mentality. On Russians I dislike Putler, all his followers, Russian disregard towards single human life etc. but I like their artists for example.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Smoothrich on November 26, 2015, 10:08:43 am

Then after posting, I Googled Googling Putin, and I am Face 2 Face with him lmao, it's not that Hard to Understand the Russian Psychology, you just need to not be a retarded inbred Western European living in fear of the Soviets 24/7 like you all probably should be lol

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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leesin on November 26, 2015, 01:33:14 pm
Turkey just butthurt that Putin is going to stomp their oil supplying friend ISIS into the desert.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 26, 2015, 01:47:22 pm
Another interesting article:

Was Russian aircraft shot down because its satellite navigation was wrong?:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/11/turkish-f-16-shoots-down-russian-jet-for-disputed-airspace-violation/


An error in position by the Russian GLONASS satellite tracking system would explain the two differing sets of data from Turkey and Russia.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 26, 2015, 01:59:54 pm

 [A]llah akbar
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 26, 2015, 02:16:13 pm

 [A]llah akbar
Hahahahaha
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ujin on November 26, 2015, 04:11:26 pm

 [A]llah akbar
I'm guessing that's the area where the pilot was shot down. By now most of them are probably either relocated somewhere else or just crossed the border. In any case, good to know that they're scared shitless. Just make sure you shout "Allahu akbar" (and apparently they also love salami, well who doesn't) enough times before you get roasted, them virgins are waiting.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 26, 2015, 07:28:55 pm
I'm guessing that's the area where the pilot was shot down. By now most of them are probably either relocated somewhere else or just crossed the border. In any case, good to know that they're scared shitless. Just make sure you shout "Allahu akbar" (and apparently they also love salami, well who doesn't) enough times before you get roasted, them virgins are waiting.

it was reported by russian military that there was various terrorist groups searching for pilot and as soon as he was extracted, bombing and shelling of that area has begun, confirmed that most of the terrorists dead.
C400 systems delivered by plane and deployed, we'll see if anyone will try to approach russian planes now. And i think that means that Kurds can no longer be bombed by Turkey, since this systems cover all of the syria and 200km into turkey territory.
If any of the terrorists from the video survived, they will be assassinated sooner or later no matter where they are. Like it happened in the past after chechen wars.

Now need some popcorn, a beer and some idiot trying to take on another russian bomber.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Molly on November 26, 2015, 07:49:10 pm
it was reported by russian military that there was various terrorist groups searching for pilot and as soon as he was extracted, bombing and shelling of that area has begun, confirmed that most of the terrorists dead.
C400 systems delivered by plane and deployed, we'll see if anyone will try to approach russian planes now. And i think that means that Kurds can no longer be bombed by Turkey, since this systems cover all of the syria and 200km into turkey territory.
If any of the terrorists from the video survived, they will be assassinated sooner or later no matter where they are. Like it happened in the past after chechen wars.

Now need some popcorn, a beer and some idiot trying to take on another russian bomber.
Russia str0nk )))
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 26, 2015, 08:04:26 pm
Just accept that Putin isn't the macho man he made himself out to be,  he is just a 5'5 man-midget with a inferiority complex. Erdogan has already said he will continue to shoot down any aircraft violating Turkish airspace.  :lol:



 
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 26, 2015, 08:15:38 pm
C400 systems delivered by plane and deployed, we'll see if anyone will try to approach russian planes now. And i think that means that Kurds can no longer be bombed by Turkey, since this systems cover all of the syria and 200km into turkey territory.
.

Obama is golfing because he knows one US naval fleet and a squadron of f-16's could contain the entire Russia Federation by itself indefinitely. We have more money, technology and firepower invested into one Naval fleet then the entire budget of the Russian Federation.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ujin on November 26, 2015, 08:28:29 pm
(click to show/hide)
So far I am actually very pleased with my governments patient reaction to this provocation commited by the turkish batshit crazy leadership with aspirations to restore the Osman Empire at the cost of destroying Syria. Russia won't do anything irrational, but it will continue the mission in Syria, but from now on, with "allies" (and we were allies in that region, this IS a backstab) like this, the bombers won't be flying without the fighters support + the  s400 system.

The region filled with terrorists where our pilot was shot to death is already a nice piece of deep fried wasteland. On top of that, Russia will continue disrupting the ISIS-Turkey oil trade, as well destroying "humanitarian" convoys (already happening) crossing the border.
On top of that, we will most probably cancel the atomic power plant construction in Turkey (which, btw, Russia was doing at it's OWN expenses)  and freeze the Turkey Stream gas project.

This just in - lmao, as soon as Russia announced that the aforementioned projects are being canceled, that son of a dog Erdogan did a complete 180 and NOW he wants to meet with Putin, even though earlier he stated that he's not gonna apologize and that Turkey did no wrong. No surprise there, he made a hysterical decision, poked at Russia in order to try and escalate a conflict and ran away to Nato, but his allies had enough of his shit and said "it's between you and Russia, we want nothing to do with this".

I know that many turkish citizens are euphoric right now, cause you think "WE SHOWED THEM", "Turkey stronk, Russia weak" etc, I know many of you cherish the idea of a restored Turkish Empire just like your leadership does, but you're in for a rude awakening. There will be no war, but there will be retaliation.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 26, 2015, 08:35:11 pm
(click to show/hide)
So far I am actually very pleased with my governments patient reaction to this provocation commited by the turkish batshit crazy leadership with aspirations to restore the Osman Empire at the cost of destroying Syria. Russia won't do anything irrational, but it will continue the mission in Syria, but from now on, with "allies" (and we were allies in that region, this IS a backstab) like this, the bombers won't be flying without the fighters support + the  s400 system.
The region filled with terrorists where our pilot was shot to death is already a nice piece of deep fried wasteland. On top of that, Russia will continue disrupting the ISIS-Turkey oil trade, as well destroying "humanitarian" convoys (already happening) crossing the border.
On top of that, we will most probably cancel the atomic power plant construction in Turkey (which, btw, Russia was doing at it's OWN expenses)  and freeze the Turkey Stream gas project.

This just in - lmao, as soon as Russia announced that the aforementioned projects are being canceled, that son of a dog Erdogan did a complete 180 and NOW he wants to meet with Putin, even though earlier he stated that he's not gonna apologize and that Turkey did no wrong. No surprise there, he made a hysterical decision, poked at Russia in order to try and escalate a conflict and ran away to Nato, but his allies had enough of his shit and said "it's between you and Russia, we want nothing to do with this".

I know that many turkish citizens are euphoric right now, cause you think "WE SHOWED THEM", "Turkey stronk, Russia weak" etc, I know many of you cherish the idea of a restored Turkish Empire just like your leadership does, but you're in for a rude awakening. There will be no war, but there will be retaliation.

The Russians want to label everyone who opposes Assad as ISIS. If we went on a killing rampage in the region killing everyone who snackbars there wouldn't be anything left. Those Syrian Turkmen might be snackbarring but they aren't snackbarring for ISIS. Erdogan doesn't want another 8 million Syrian refugees and I don't blame him. Russia is purposely trying to make Turkey lose control of it's border, which is downright fucked up.

  Russia can never be humble and admit they messed up, instead they have to escalate the situation with threats and further useless  deployments.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Molly on November 26, 2015, 08:37:54 pm
[...]Russia won't do anything irrational[...]
[...]Russia won't do anything irrational[...]
[...]Russia won't do anything irrational[...]
[...]Russia won't do anything irrational[...]
After Crimea, Russia is the god damn definition of irrational, dude :lol:
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ujin on November 26, 2015, 08:41:47 pm
The Russians want to label everyone who opposes Assad as ISIS. If we went on a killing rampage in the region killing everyone who snackbars there wouldn't be anything left. Those Syrian Turkmen might be snackbarring but they aren't snackbarring for ISIS. Erdogan doesn't want another 8 million Syrian refugees and I don't blame him.

  Russia can never be humble and admit they messed up, instead they have to escalate the situation with threats and further useless  deployments.
Bwahahahaahaha you are delusional. Turkey makes a huge profit by literally blackmailing Europe, Turkish mafia controls the refugee flow into Europe. Remember those what, 3.5 billion bucks Europe gave Turkey to build camps AND on top of that gave Turkey visa benefits? And Erdogan, like the bandit he is, keeps blackmailing Europe and asking for more, threatening (he is sugarcoating it of course) to increase the flow. I know i'm preaching to the wrong choir here, but get some facts straight, come on.

@ Molly there's a separate topic about 1000 pages long on this board for that question. Again, preaching to the wrong choir, or as we say in Russia - " Cast pearls before swine".
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 26, 2015, 08:48:39 pm
Bwahahahaahaha you are delusional. Turkey makes a huge profit by literally blackmailing Europe, Turkish mafia controls the refugee flow into Europe. Remember those what, 3.5 billion bucks Europe gave Turkey to build camps AND on top of that give Turkey visa benefits? And Erdogan, like a bandit he is, keeps blackmailing Europe and ask for more, threatening (he is sugarcoating it of course) to increase the flow. I know i'm preaching to the wrong choir here, but get some facts straight, come on.

  We all know those that claim to be the holiest of holy Islamic snackbars are really hopped up on drugs and peddling opium,heroin, prostitutes, homosexuality and oil, and the local governments are too weak to fight the corruption. Losing control of your borders will only escalate this problem, corruption and greed will always be a factor. The Russian mafia is out of control, so are the gangs in South America and the USA. Military intervention won't stop this, the only difference is you have Islam infused with these killers.

http://www.bloggingsbyboz.com/2015/01/latin-american-violence-more-deadly.html

 
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 26, 2015, 08:57:09 pm

Dat spam... Worse than Krems on EU_1.
There should be a "your voice has been disabled for 30 secondes" anti-spam IRL.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 26, 2015, 09:27:18 pm
So far I am actually very pleased with my governments patient reaction to this provocation commited by the turkish batshit crazy leadership with aspirations to restore the Osman Empire at the cost of destroying Syria.
That's the funny part -- one country with batshit crazy leadership with aspirations to restore the Osman Empire and another country with crazy leadership with aspirations to restore the Soviet Union.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LEKIS on November 26, 2015, 09:29:15 pm
(click to show/hide)
So far I am actually very pleased with my governments patient reaction to this provocation commited by the turkish batshit crazy leadership with aspirations to restore the Osman Empire at the cost of destroying Syria. Russia won't do anything irrational, but it will continue the mission in Syria, but from now on, with "allies" (and we were allies in that region, this IS a backstab) like this, the bombers won't be flying without the fighters support + the  s400 system.

The region filled with terrorists where our pilot was shot to death is already a nice piece of deep fried wasteland. On top of that, Russia will continue disrupting the ISIS-Turkey oil trade, as well destroying "humanitarian" convoys (already happening) crossing the border.
On top of that, we will most probably cancel the atomic power plant construction in Turkey (which, btw, Russia was doing at it's OWN expenses)  and freeze the Turkey Stream gas project.

This just in - lmao, as soon as Russia announced that the aforementioned projects are being canceled, that son of a dog Erdogan did a complete 180 and NOW he wants to meet with Putin, even though earlier he stated that he's not gonna apologize and that Turkey did no wrong. No surprise there, he made a hysterical decision, poked at Russia in order to try and escalate a conflict and ran away to Nato, but his allies had enough of his shit and said "it's between you and Russia, we want nothing to do with this".

I know that many turkish citizens are euphoric right now, cause you think "WE SHOWED THEM", "Turkey stronk, Russia weak" etc, I know many of you cherish the idea of a restored Turkish Empire just like your leadership does, but you're in for a rude awakening. There will be no war, but there will be retaliation.

Privét!

Da, soon comrade.
Putin will come, and make Crimea look like kindergarten class with only 2 children ))))

Cyka turks will get pashyol nahuy'd. (((

After, I welcome comrade Putin to Sweden with open arms, and open bars in his honor.


do' svidaniya ))
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 26, 2015, 09:47:47 pm
Just accept that Putin isn't the macho man he made himself out to be,  he is just a 5'5 man-midget with a inferiority complex. Erdogan has already said he will continue to shoot down any aircraft violating Turkish airspace.  :lol:

What do you think NATO (USA) will do if Russia really strike Turkish bombers from Mediterranean, would that be enough for them to intervene and potentially start WWIII? Or we'll see similar scenario like in Ukraine, sanctions and threats but no real actions?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ujin on November 26, 2015, 09:47:51 pm
That's the funny part -- one country with batshit crazy leadership with aspirations to restore the Osman Empire and another country with crazy leadership with aspirations to restore the Soviet Union.
A popular opinion. Surprisingly, it's more popular outside of Russia than here. I could try going into details and explain the difference between spheres of interests and crazy imperial aspirations, but i guess there's no point.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 26, 2015, 09:49:44 pm
After Crimea, Russia is the god damn definition of irrational, dude :lol:

That wasn't irrational, they waited for decades to annex that territory. As you can see, it is theirs right now and unless they collapse that isn't going to change any time soon.

Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 26, 2015, 10:15:22 pm
In the end it comes down to this: Russia is crawling forward, if slowly, in its evolution towards a civilized country. Turkey, on the other hand, is trying its best to go back to the 11th century. So if it comes to war, I know which side I'll be cheering for.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ujin on November 26, 2015, 10:32:09 pm
In the end it comes down to this: Russia is crawling forward, if slowly, in its evolution towards a civilized country. Turkey, on the other hand, is trying its best to go back to the 11th century. So if it comes to war, I know which side I'll be cheering for.
I can agree with that.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 26, 2015, 10:56:13 pm
What do you think NATO (USA) will do if Russia really strike Turkish bombers from Mediterranean, would that be enough for them to intervene and potentially start WWIII? Or we'll see similar scenario like in Ukraine, sanctions and threats but no real actions?

  Ukraine is not part of NATO and the problem isn't that Russia annexed Crimea, it's how they went about doing it and how they are trying to economically force the Ukraine into becoming a dependency of the Russian Federation. I don't think Putin wants to spend the rest of his days hiding in a underground bunker, so I doubt he will start WW3. What happened in Turkey was obviously a mistake/misunderstanding that took place and he wants to use it to his advantage politically, this is nothing new.

 Russia should be working with other nations since they have special diplomatic ties that could bring an end to the conflict. There's nothing illegitimate about the Syrian government except for the dictatorship that has been ruling it since 1973. Usually when a dictator or authoritarian figure starts killing their own people in cold blood you stop supporting him, in Russia's case they step in to do the dirty work for him. No amount of US or Russian troops/bombs are going to fix Syria.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Paul on November 26, 2015, 10:58:10 pm
Is Grytviken actually trolling with the 'USA USA' shit or is he serious? I can't tell anymore. He's doing a pretty good job.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 26, 2015, 11:02:17 pm
A popular opinion. Surprisingly, it's more popular outside of Russia than here. I could try going into details and explain the difference between spheres of interests and crazy imperial aspirations, but i guess there's no point.

I would be interested of your view of the situation as an insider.

Certainly Russia is very anxious to regain it's former status as a great power.
I wager a return to the past economic system doesn't sound sweet to those who remember how it was though.

Is Grytviken actually trolling with the 'USA USA' shit or is he serious? I can't tell anymore. He's doing a pretty good job.

I currently think it's 75% serious and 25% trolling.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Angantyr on November 26, 2015, 11:07:21 pm
Usually when a dictator or authoritarian figure starts killing their own people in cold blood you stop supporting him
Regrettably it's usually the opposite. US foreign policy since 1945 is a good example, supporting one brutal, hated dictator after the other.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 26, 2015, 11:11:58 pm
Regrettably it's usually the opposite. US foreign policy since 1945 is a good example, supporting one brutal, hated dictator after the other.

And when they cross a line they are dumped. All countries have to deal with those kind of regimes and dictators when there are no other options available, not just the US and Russia. Just because the US or Russia does something wrong or makes a mistake doesn't add any credibility to the other, which is what Putin supporters feed off of.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 26, 2015, 11:19:27 pm
Regrettably it's usually the opposite. US foreign policy since 1945 is a good example, supporting one brutal, hated dictator after the other.

like this http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5348804
))) USA and Canada took a lot of banderas and other run away fascists in their countries right after ww2. I guess they had their purpose.
BTW if u think this is all fictional, even obama stated recently that it was a bad idea to remove ELECTED democratic leader from Iran in the past.
In my country moldova they changed government by sending just one rich man :) They didn't even fucking send Nuland, they mistreated us.
And recently due to leaders of the coalition in power in moldova stealing 1 bil dollars from national bank and almost collapsing whats left of economy. In parlament they pushed and won vote for re-election, to get rid of our shit president! And then US ambassador in moldova said that its a bad idea for president to change and that US government not supportive of that. In public. It was all over local news :))))
How the fuck is that possible that ambassador of another country is involved in internal affairs of another country. Ah yes Ukraine. ))
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 26, 2015, 11:20:15 pm
In the end it comes down to this: Russia is crawling forward, if slowly, in its evolution towards a civilized country. Turkey, on the other hand, is trying its best to go back to the 11th century. So if it comes to war, I know which side I'll be cheering for.

Liar :) knowing u - u'll be cheering for both to kill each other.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 26, 2015, 11:26:38 pm
like this http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5348804
))) USA and Canada took a lot of banderas and other run away fascists in their countries right after ww2. I guess they had their purpose.
BTW if u think this is all fictional, even obama stated recently that it was a bad idea to remove ELECTED democratic leader from Iran in the past.
In my country moldova they changed government by sending just one rich man :) They didn't even fucking send Nuland, they mistreated us.
And recently due to leaders of the coalition in power in moldova stealing 1 bil dollars from national bank and almost collapsing whats left of economy. In parlament they pushed and won vote for re-election, to get rid of our shit president! And then US ambassador in moldova said that its a bad idea for president to change and that US government not supportive of that. In public. It was all over local news :))))
How the fuck is that possible that ambassador of another country is involved in internal affairs of another country. Ah yes Ukraine. ))

 And the guy who made that website https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky#Criticism also thinks that Slobodan Milošević was framed by the CIA. lmao. Let's see him write a list of KGB atrocities, I bet you'd need more than one page for that. You somehow think that the USA's shortcomings give credibility to Russia, one thing has nothing to do with the other.

 After destroying the entire economy of Eastern Europe I find it hilarious how anyone can look to Russia for inspiration. Canada has less than 1/10th the population of Russia and has a much stronger economy and GDP, how does that work?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 26, 2015, 11:45:18 pm
And the guy who made that website https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky#Criticism also thinks that Slobodan Milošević was framed by the CIA. lmao. Let's see him write a list of KGB atrocities, I bet you'd need more than one page for that. You somehow think that the USA's shortcomings give credibility to Russia, one thing has nothing to do with the other.

 After destroying the entire economy of Eastern Europe I find it hilarious how anyone can look to Russia for inspiration. Canada has less than 1/10th the population of Russia and has a much stronger economy and GDP, how does that work?

This is just one of the websites, he didn't write it probably. + this is just sums up some of the things. Read this if u want
https://uglyrumors.wordpress.com/2014/05/11/ukraine-nightingale-and-mockingbird/
but i don't recommend to u because it seams like u have a bag on ur head.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 27, 2015, 12:12:37 am
This is just one of the websites, he didn't write it probably. + this is just sums up some of the things. Read this if u want
https://uglyrumors.wordpress.com/2014/05/11/ukraine-nightingale-and-mockingbird/
but i don't recommend to u because it seams like u have a bag on ur head.

I love these secret chocolate chip cookie CIA Moldovian folk stories, they are totally relevant to the conversation. You're right Albert is still alive and staying at the Illuminati hotel, we will be inserting him into the Ukraine soon so watch out.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 27, 2015, 01:06:00 am
I would be interested of your view of the situation as an insider.

Certainly Russia is very anxious to regain it's former status as a great power.
I wager a return to the past economic system doesn't sound sweet to those who remember how it was though.

Russia before Bolsheviks - Empire ruled by Romanov dynasty, strong national identity
Russia under Lenin - Russian national identity being purged by communists
Russia under Stalin - part of Soviet Union, national identity still repressed but not like it was during Lenin
Russia after Stalin - gradual strengthening of Russian national identity
Soviet Union collapse - Russia going through major changes, democracy and capitalism instead of communism and planned economy
Russia under Putin - going back to Tsarist roots, national identity going strong

Putin has no intention of going back to Soviet times, he wants to create modernized version of Russian Empire.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 27, 2015, 02:05:07 am
Regrettably it's usually the opposite. US foreign policy since 1945 is a good example, supporting one brutal, hated dictator after the other.

As long he's anti communist (this is what they feed media and masses) and more importantly, willing to work toward common (American) interest.

Case Mobutu Sese Seko, Congolese dictator: came to power after military coup (organized by CIA and Belgian government), only because democratically elected leader was smart and dangerous man who worked for his country and opposed foreign interest. Mobutu stayed tyrant for quite a long period but he lost western support. They simply didn't need to support him any more because main threat has been dealt with.

Case Reza Pahlavi, Shah of Iran: He served a good purpose until USA came up with a different plan that included religious uprising which will create instability in the whole region. During Shah's reign democratically elected prime minister was executed after he was overthrown in coup d'etat organized by Central Intelligence Agency. Guilty of working in best interest of his country which was directly jeopardizing foreign interest.

Case Muammar Gaddafi: Came to power in military coup. Stayed in power for quite awhile. As tyrant was regularly granted support of western countries. When western strategy in northern Africa and middle East changed and some of his actions started to pose a threat to foreign interest, he was brutally executed.

Case Josip Broz Tito: Came to power after WWII, was known for balancing between blocks which granted his country some advantages over other communist countries which were fully dependent of Soviet Union. Due to change in American politics mid 60s and some of his silly moves, he lost favor of the west. Which put his country into downfall which ended in shattering of Yugoslavia 10 years after his death. Was smart enough to avoid assassination but silly to think he's going to form third block consisting of undeveloped countries.

Case Slobodan Milosevic: Instrumental in fall of Yugoslavia, had strong ties with foreign intelligence agencies. When he finished his job, he was taken care of.

Case Saddam Hussein: Was instrumental in coup that removed Qasim from head of the Iraq state. Qasim was very much like Saddam but he made a mistake when demanding fairer distribution of oil money. By doing that he signed his death sentence. Saddam was chosen to get rid of Qasim but he failed and had to flee to Syria. From there he organized another assassination attempt which was successful. Took him five years to come back to Iraq and take the throne for himself. Went into war vs American allies in middle east, attempted annexation which was start of his demise. Later, to overcome economic sanctions he traded oil for goods, mainly with Russia. Not even a decade later he was branded as Satan, who possessed weapons of mass destruction and was brutally executed. All in name of freedom and democracy, strictly to protect life of innocent Iraqi. Has nothing to do with western interest, no no...

Do you see a pattern here or should I continue?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on November 27, 2015, 02:49:37 am
Russia before Bolsheviks - Empire ruled by Romanov dynasty, strong national identity
Russia under Lenin - Russian national identity being purged by communists
Russia under Stalin - part of Soviet Union, national identity still repressed but not like it was during Lenin
Russia after Stalin - gradual strengthening of Russian national identity
Soviet Union collapse - Russia going through major changes, democracy and capitalism instead of communism and planned economy
Russia under Putin - going back to Tsarist roots, national identity going strong

Putin has no intention of going back to Soviet times, he wants to create modernized version of Russian Empire.

Well, Putin would have it rather easy if Russia was back to Tsarist roots. That is, deriving the right to rule from birthright/lineage. It would not be hard to confuse the cult of personality around Putin for going back to Tsarist roots, but the macho "big-man" image is carefully projected with i.a. memorable escapades like riding bears without a shirt and accidentally finding ancient Greek vases on a leisurely dive, all with the goal of gaining popular support. It is still very very important for Putin.
Would the nation be ready to move to a monarchy, I wonder?

I must raise some doubt about the communists purging the national identity of Russians. It was different, perhaps replaced or extended upon. Is it all gone after the collapse, either?

There's certainly a lot of adoration of Soviet times: "A new history textbook proclaims that the Soviet Union, although not a democracy, was “an example for millions of people around the world of the best and fairest society”."
http://www.economist.com/node/11880594

The gathering of central control could work for either Soviet or Tsarist, I suppose.

I also quite doubt that he would return to Sovietism wholesale, but he would like an empire for sure.
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekism
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tagora on November 27, 2015, 02:58:28 am
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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Asheram on November 27, 2015, 04:42:35 am
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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 27, 2015, 06:02:00 am
To protest turkey's actions in shooting down the russian bomber... I did not eat turkey this thanksgiving.
#freedomfries #freedomtoast
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Asheram on November 27, 2015, 06:28:55 am
To protest turkey's actions in shooting down the russian bomber... I did not eat turkey this thanksgiving.
#freedomfries #freedomtoast
Jive Turkey Jones thanks you brother.
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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: cup457 on November 27, 2015, 06:29:45 am
tbh i wish cia didnt exist. but fuck turkey go the fuck back to asia. If only tens of million of russian hadnt died in the last century maybe the would actually have the population to invade
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 27, 2015, 06:37:59 am
Russia before Bolsheviks - Empire ruled by Romanov dynasty, strong national identity
Russia under Lenin - Russian national identity being purged by communists
Russia under Stalin - part of Soviet Union, national identity still repressed but not like it was during Lenin
Russia after Stalin - gradual strengthening of Russian national identity
Soviet Union collapse - Russia going through major changes, democracy and capitalism instead of communism and planned economy
Russia under Putin - going back to Tsarist roots, national identity going strong

Putin has no intention of going back to Soviet times, he wants to create modernized version of Russian Empire.

He actually does. Putins intentions, when it comes to his country are quite noble. In some ways the man is a statesman. Which is pretty good considering that Russias entire leadership for decades, from top to bottom consisted only of people who just endlessly stole from their own country. The big issue with Putin is however, that quite simply hes been a leader for too long now. He is exactly the kind of leader to properly pull a country like Russia out of the complete shitter. However, now that it is out of the shitter, Russia has reached the next stage, where it needs a bit of a different approach to "cleaning house" and fist waving. And Putin absolutely sucks at that.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 27, 2015, 08:18:21 am
Putin has no intention of going back to Soviet times, he wants to create modernized version of Russian Empire.
I.e., a country ruled by Scandinavians.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 27, 2015, 09:18:28 am

Case Slobodan Milosevic: Instrumental in fall of Yugoslavia, had strong ties with foreign intelligence agencies. When he finished his job, he was taken care of.

Geneva convention is rubbish, no one is sticking to those rules of warfare. The only rule in war is there's no rules.


Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 27, 2015, 02:41:17 pm
He actually does. Putins intentions, when it comes to his country are quite noble. In some ways the man is a statesman. Which is pretty good considering that Russias entire leadership for decades, from top to bottom consisted only of people who just endlessly stole from their own country. The big issue with Putin is however, that quite simply hes been a leader for too long now. He is exactly the kind of leader to properly pull a country like Russia out of the complete shitter. However, now that it is out of the shitter, Russia has reached the next stage, where it needs a bit of a different approach to "cleaning house" and fist waving. And Putin absolutely sucks at that.

Merkel was longer. Btw when u find a good leader u won't change it for shit one, because its stupid. I just hope that Putin and his group, have someone to replace him with when the time comes. Russia is always suffered in times between great leaders.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 27, 2015, 02:41:57 pm
i have proof that germany is building an empire!

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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 27, 2015, 07:49:56 pm
Merkel was longer. Btw when u find a good leader u won't change it for shit one, because its stupid. I just hope that Putin and his group, have someone to replace him with when the time comes. Russia is always suffered in times between great leaders.

This is more than true. Whoever after Putin is going to be president, it is quite possible, he will be working in Putins shadow and if he turns out to be a retard, he will probably burn most of the planet to the ground. Putin is technically a leader who has gotten fame for waving his fists at everything and increasing the size of Russian territory. Its quite possible the next president might try to desperately do the same or even beat that to prove that he is a good leader and get his name in the history books. He might try to prove himself so hard that he will start more pointless wars with countries Russia probably should not fuck with, to the brink of actual nuclear war. Now, that, is a scary thought.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 27, 2015, 08:52:26 pm
This is more than true. Whoever after Putin is going to be president, it is quite possible, he will be working in Putins shadow and if he turns out to be a retard, he will probably burn most of the planet to the ground. Putin is technically a leader who has gotten fame for waving his fists at everything and increasing the size of Russian territory. Its quite possible the next president might try to desperately do the same or even beat that to prove that he is a good leader and get his name in the history books. He might try to prove himself so hard that he will start more pointless wars with countries Russia probably should not fuck with, to the brink of actual nuclear war. Now, that, is a scary thought.

absurd
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 27, 2015, 10:46:50 pm
Yeah, probably. None the less. Russian president is a powerful state figure, who has the authority to basically do anything and I kinda get the impression that russians really want to go to war with someone.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 27, 2015, 11:15:23 pm
I have an impression that someone else desperately want Russia to go with war with someone so they can step in and win that war after sides that were fighting exhaust each other.

Only thing Russia wants is to have some influence over eastern Europe and to do business with western Europe. Someone else doesn't want any of that to happen.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 27, 2015, 11:39:06 pm
Leshma, did you forget to get your prescription filled?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on November 27, 2015, 11:53:38 pm
i have proof that germany is building an empire!

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Hmm... If this is not photoshopped, what's the deal with these helmets?.. Some sort of headphone-reserved space? There must be some functionality behind it, since it looks absolutely ridiculous. They both look like that disgusting creature from the harry potter movies.

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Holly shit this thing is gross
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Asheram on November 27, 2015, 11:58:11 pm
Hmm... If this is not photoshopped, what's the deal with these helmets?.. Some sort of headphone-reserved space? There must be some functionality behind it, since it looks absolutely ridiculous. They both look like that disgusting creature from the harry potter movies.

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Holly shit this thing is gross
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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 28, 2015, 12:23:31 am
I have an impression that someone else desperately want Russia to go with war with someone so they can step in and win that war after sides that were fighting exhaust each other.

Only thing Russia wants is to have some influence over eastern Europe and to do business with western Europe. Someone else doesn't want any of that to happen.

Putin is his own worst enemy. He let's his emotions get the best of him. If he played Call of Duty his alias would be LoNEWOLFxXx420xxRUS. Every single international disagreement he has could have been avoided, including Turkey, simply by using diplomacy or cooperating with others. Instead he decides to boycott Turkish tomatoes and act like a fool escalating the situation. I think the story on RT has changed several more times now.

 https://www.rt.com/business/iraq-russia-oil-plan-186/   Russia is not excluded from any economic ventures, they just pretend the system is rigged against them so they can politicize everything for publicity and propaganda, because like you said they want to economically "influence" others. The truth is Russia would be a very boring country without some kind of ideological enemy, they know as well as we do it would be mutual suicide and pointless to start a war. Whenever there is any kind of disagreement the media brings up Cold War stigmas on both sides for publicity, it's as simple as that.

 Comparing the US going full vigilante on countries who don't play by the rules does not compare to the hypocrisy of Russia taking land from the Ukraine forcibly, with no negotiations, and then directly stepping in to the do the dirty work and protect the sovereignty of a dictator who has been proven to have committed warcrimes against his own. Every single example you gave on your list only tells one side of the story or is blatantly made up bullshit propaganda from Chumpsky.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on November 28, 2015, 12:32:51 am
There must be some functionality behind it

ear venting?


haha, they really presented these helmets in Bavaria as new euqipment fit for responding terrorism after the attacks in Paris...

(click to show/hide)

dat look of the poor policeman  :D
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 28, 2015, 12:50:28 am
Leshma, did you forget to get your prescription filled?

For chronic cough?

Makes more sense than "Russia wants war, cause stronk". Russia can't afford going into major war against moderately strong country like Turkey. Not to mention that means opposing NATO, strongest military force on Earth. Believe me, if Russians were strong enough to take on NATO, they would do it long time ago.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 28, 2015, 01:02:22 am
Putin is his own worst enemy. He let's his emotions get the best of him.

Only people on this forum and common sheep believe that country leaders are being driven by emotions. You feel rage against muslims because of terrorist attacks in France/USA and demand a crusade. Elite sees that as an opportunity to make more money by showing off their new military tech, later to sell it to same people they bombed.

Putin is not stupid and he certainly isn't driven by emotions. I doubt he has any left. Dude's a former KGB spy, his actions are calculated as they get.

Quote
https://www.rt.com/business/iraq-russia-oil-plan-186/   Russia is not excluded from any economic ventures, they just pretend the system is rigged against them so they can politicize everything for publicity and propaganda, because like you said they want to economically "influence" others. The truth is Russia would be a very boring country without some kind of ideological enemy, they know as well as we do it would be mutual suicide and pointless to start a war. Whenever there is any kind of disagreement the media brings up Cold War stigmas on both sides for publicity, it's as simple as that.

 Comparing the US going full vigilante on countries who don't play by the rules does not compare to the hypocrisy of Russia taking land from the Ukraine forcibly, with no negotiations, and then directly stepping in to the do the dirty work and protect the sovereignty of a dictator who has been proven to have committed warcrimes against his own. Every single example you gave on your list only tells one side of the story or is blatantly made up bullshit propaganda from Chumpsky.

Fully agree that he is populist leader who created boogieman he's supposed to fight again and save his people. But isn't the same situation in USA? Isn't socialism your boogieman? You openly criticize Scandinavian countries because they implemented some socialist measures, even thought they are doing mighty fine. They picked the best from capitalism and socialism. But if you're American you can't even think about socialist measures, because that is a dirty word.

Now you have that clown Trump who is of same political mold as Putin, a populist scumbag. He's telling you it's about time to make America great again. Please enlighten me, when did America stopped being great? Maybe it has something with others catching up a bit, you know? Like in sport. Even Africans can play football these days. That doesn't mean Germany aren't the best at the game. But difference is smaller than ever.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 28, 2015, 01:02:33 am
For chronic cough?

Makes more sense than "Russia wants war, cause stronk". Russia can't afford going into major war against moderately strong country like Turkey. Not to mention that means opposing NATO, strongest military force on Earth. Believe me, if Russians were strong enough to take on NATO, they would do it long time ago.

Fine i'll tell you the Illuminati secret, seeing you struggle like this is pathetic.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Paul on November 28, 2015, 01:14:31 am
Oh gawd, what's going on? Leshma seeming to be the saner1 one in a discussion?


1: relatively speaking
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 28, 2015, 01:25:42 am
Only people on this forum and common sheep believe that country leaders are being driven by emotions. You feel rage against muslims because of terrorist attacks in France/USA and demand a crusade. Elite sees that as an opportunity to make more money by showing off their new military tech, later to sell it to same people they bombed.

Putin is not stupid and he certainly isn't driven by emotions. I doubt he has any left. Dude's a former KGB spy, his actions are calculated as they get.

Fully agree that he is populist leader who created boogieman he's supposed to fight again and save his people. But isn't the same situation in USA? Isn't socialism your boogieman? You openly criticize Scandinavian countries because they implemented some socialist measures, even thought they are doing mighty fine. They picked the best from capitalism and socialism. But if you're American you can't even think about socialist measures, because that is a dirty word.

Now you have that clown Trump who is of same political mold as Putin, a populist scumbag. He's telling you it's about time to make America great again. Please enlighten me, when did America stopped being great? Maybe it has something with others catching up a bit, you know? Like in sport. Even Africans can play football these days. That doesn't mean Germany aren't the best at the game. But difference is smaller than ever.

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Socialist policies exist in the USA just not to the extent of Europe, there are politicians looking to expand them. The majority of the US budget goes into socialist programs. If we went full socialist like Scandinavia we would go under financially, our population is too big, New York City has a bigger population than the entire country of Norway for example. Also the election is a year away, nothing really matters atm, they can say whatever they want so don't take the candidates too seriously yet.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 28, 2015, 01:51:02 am
Hmm... If this is not photoshopped, what's the deal with these helmets?.. Some sort of headphone-reserved space? There must be some functionality behind it, since it looks absolutely ridiculous.

This is how we will protect our ears in the future!!!!
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on November 28, 2015, 06:16:05 am
maybe it provides some protection to their collar bones from downward thrusts with blunt objects? :3

I've heard someone say collar bones take the least amount of force to break more than any bone in the body... I think it was a self defense trainer or something, was telling people to strike open palmed at someones collar bone if you're in a fight for your life... Always wondered if it was effective, never seen anyone do it.


OR OR!!!

Maybe they double as rain hats... and they are flared out like that to act as like a helmet-umbrella for the face!

 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 28, 2015, 08:07:48 am
I have an impression that someone else desperately want Russia to go with war with someone so they can step in and win that war after sides that were fighting exhaust each other.

Only thing Russia wants is to have some influence over eastern Europe and to do business with western Europe. Someone else doesn't want any of that to happen.

Lol some influence? They want to own eastern Europe. By "someone" you mean, basically everyone with some common sense thats not a russian skinhead? They had all the influence and possibilities in the late 90s to start fresh with Eastern-EU, a lot of ties exsisted between them and Russia,  but Russia decided to go full asshole, because it was either all or nothing for them. So Eastern Europe turned to US and the West more and completely shut Russia out. Your impression is false. Even Scandinavia, with its few dealings, knows that Russias fame as an expansive and hostile nation is quite accurate.

For chronic cough?

Makes more sense than "Russia wants war, cause stronk". Russia can't afford going into major war against moderately strong country like Turkey. Not to mention that means opposing NATO, strongest military force on Earth. Believe me, if Russians were strong enough to take on NATO, they would do it long time ago.

Does not make more sense tbh. "Some influence" is about a wrong of a claim as it gets.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Umbra on November 28, 2015, 11:17:58 am
https://www.rt.com/news/323603-isis-oil-smuggling-turkey/

Time to bomb where it hurts the most
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 28, 2015, 11:35:14 am
For chronic cough?

Makes more sense than "Russia wants war, cause stronk". Russia can't afford going into major war against moderately strong country like Turkey. Not to mention that means opposing NATO, strongest military force on Earth. Believe me, if Russians were strong enough to take on NATO, they would do it long time ago.
Who is saying Russia wants to go to war? You're being stupid if you think this is going to become world war 3. You've created a false dichotomy. "Either this is an illuminati plot, or Russia wants war."
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on November 28, 2015, 12:15:55 pm
They had all the influence and possibilities in the late 90s to start fresh with Eastern-EU, a lot of ties exsisted between them and Russia
Is hate and resentment considered ties?
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If we went full socialist like Scandinavia we would go under financially, our population is too big, New York City has a bigger population than the entire country of Norway for example. Also the election is a year away, nothing really matters atm, they can say whatever they want so don't take the candidates too seriously yet.
USA also has the greatest BIP/per capita so with the right imposition, there would be no trouble. The same way social spending is proportional to the size of the population, state income are proportional to it too (combined with the wealth of the population, which is on average not so bad in US).
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 28, 2015, 01:28:45 pm
Is hate and resentment considered ties?
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USA also has the greatest BIP/per capita so with the right imposition, there would be no trouble. The same way social spending is proportional to the size of the population, state income are proportional to it too (combined with the wealth of the population, which is on average not so bad in US).

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No, brokar, hate and resentment are not considered as ties.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Panos_ on November 28, 2015, 01:34:22 pm
http://cyberwardesk.com/wikileaks-alleges-that-turkish-aircrafts-violated-greek-airspace-over-2000-times-in-2014/


The Turks are fucking pussies, for years they have been violating the Greek airspace, but we never said/done anything.

Now the Turkgays found their masters, and they hide behind Obama and NATO.

I guess the Turks can only commit genocides.


Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Son Of Odin on November 28, 2015, 01:45:37 pm
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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 28, 2015, 02:33:37 pm
http://cyberwardesk.com/wikileaks-alleges-that-turkish-aircrafts-violated-greek-airspace-over-2000-times-in-2014/


The Turks are fucking pussies, for years they have been violating the Greek airspace, but we never said/done anything.
Uh... that means the Greeks are pussies.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Panos_ on November 28, 2015, 03:27:04 pm
Uh... that means the Greeks are pussies.

Bro, when your economy is bad you can`t do much.


Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 28, 2015, 03:31:11 pm
If we went full socialist like Scandinavia we would go under financially, our population is too big, New York City has a bigger population than the entire country of Norway for example. Also the election is a year away, nothing really matters atm, they can say whatever they want so don't take the candidates too seriously yet.

Scandinavia went full socialist? Things you can read in here...

Thanks to you guys, now I'm seeing that old nutcase everywhere on youtube.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Smoothrich on November 28, 2015, 03:34:25 pm
Only people on this forum and common sheep believe that country leaders are being driven by emotions. You feel rage against muslims because of terrorist attacks in France/USA and demand a crusade. Elite sees that as an opportunity to make more money by showing off their new military tech, later to sell it to same people they bombed.

Putin is not stupid and he certainly isn't driven by emotions. I doubt he has any left. Dude's a former KGB spy, his actions are calculated as they get.

Reading about his KGB Spy days, his job was to throw parties in East Germany and provide The Beer and The Brats lmao all the time. He got fat and seemingly sperged about The Perfect Ale and was known as "the fun guy" lol. He raged at the Soviet high command for Giving Up on East Germany and had to act like a hard ass to get Newly Freedom Loving German Mobs to not raze down his Party Planning + Propaganda Publishing HQ as the Evil Empire collapsed around him after the Polish Pope defeated Communism with the perfect Troll in Warsaw 10 years earlier (which was a good thing)

People think the Communist Bloc people have no emotions when I was in the UIF teamspeak for all the battles where we all just laughed constantly at how shitty the mods, devs, and other factions were lol, and found the offsite Russian forums where people were normal, not Mute Order-Obeying Drones

Trust me, KGB training is not about losing emotions.. its about manipulating other people's emotions instead. Like yours Leshma, you stupid hairless ape lmao
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Kafein on November 28, 2015, 03:42:39 pm
Bro, when your economy is bad you can`t do much.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/gr-budget.htm

One of the reasons Greece got itself into a terrible crisis is chronic excess in military spending.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Panos_ on November 28, 2015, 03:51:00 pm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/gr-budget.htm

One of the reasons Greece got itself into a terrible crisis is chronic excess in military spending.

Turkey, Albania, Bulgaria, Skopja.

When your neighbors are the above ones, who hate you, you need to protect yourself. I wish my neighbors were the French, the Germans and the Dutch like yours.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 28, 2015, 04:37:01 pm
Three of four countries you listed are harmless. Unless USA wants them to have a slice of your land, they have no chance. Next time shoot that Turkish plane down, please.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 28, 2015, 05:30:41 pm
http://cyberwardesk.com/wikileaks-alleges-that-turkish-aircrafts-violated-greek-airspace-over-2000-times-in-2014/


The Turks are fucking pussies, for years they have been violating the Greek airspace, but we never said/done anything.

Literally makes no sense -- "Joe is such a pussy for standing up for himself, I let everyone do whatever they want to me and I never say anything because I'm scared."

And the defense makes even less sense...
Bro, when your economy is bad you can`t do much.

What does this have to do with anything? A pussy is a pussy, regardless of the reasons he is a pussy.

It's one thing for Greece not to do anything, OK, we understand, scared of Turkey... but a Greek calling Turkey "pussy" for DOING SOMETHING is amazingly absurd.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 28, 2015, 06:04:55 pm
I have an impression that someone else desperately want Russia to go with war with someone so they can step in and win that war after sides that were fighting exhaust each other.

Only thing Russia wants is to have some influence over eastern Europe and to do business with western Europe. Someone else doesn't want any of that to happen.

wow u close to the point. what not many understand that russia has more land and resources then anyone and it doesn't need or want to go to war with anyone. It only has to preserve itself and defend.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 28, 2015, 06:13:13 pm
Reading about his KGB Spy days, his job was to throw parties in East Germany and provide The Beer and The Brats lmao all the time. He got fat and seemingly sperged about The Perfect Ale and was known as "the fun guy" lol. He raged at the Soviet high command for Giving Up on East Germany and had to act like a hard ass to get Newly Freedom Loving German Mobs to not raze down his Party Planning + Propaganda Publishing HQ as the Evil Empire collapsed around him after the Polish Pope defeated Communism with the perfect Troll in Warsaw 10 years earlier (which was a good thing)

People think the Communist Bloc people have no emotions when I was in the UIF teamspeak for all the battles where we all just laughed constantly at how shitty the mods, devs, and other factions were lol, and found the offsite Russian forums where people were normal, not Mute Order-Obeying Drones

Trust me, KGB training is not about losing emotions.. its about manipulating other people's emotions instead. Like yours Leshma, you stupid hairless ape lmao
I even know the author, who you read  :P
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Paul on November 28, 2015, 07:56:47 pm
Bro, when your economy is bad you can`t do much.

Well, how about you buy some more submarines?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 28, 2015, 08:34:32 pm
wow u close to the point. what not many understand that russia has more land and resources then anyone and it doesn't need or want to go to war with anyone. It only has to preserve itself and defend.
You're joking, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia#Russian_Federation_.281991.E2.80.93present.29
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 28, 2015, 08:41:54 pm
You're joking, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia#Russian_Federation_.281991.E2.80.93present.29

Have you read the link?
If you remove civil war and insurgency war, Russia made only a handful of minor wars in the last 25 years. Gained Crimea and "liberated" small as fuck regions/countries.
Such warmongering.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 28, 2015, 08:47:23 pm
Have you read the link?
If you remove civil war and insurgency war, Russia made only a handful of minor wars in the last 25 years. Gained Crimea and "liberated" small as fuck regions/countries.
Such warmongering.
I have read the link yes. Do you have a hard time understanding English?

wow u close to the point. what not many understand that russia has more land and resources then anyone and it doesn't need or want to go to war with anyone. It only has to preserve itself and defend.

Ukraine doesn't count as "anyone", attacking Ukraine doesn't count as attacking, taking over territory from Ukraine doesn't count as wanting/needing more land, """"liberating""" countries doesn't count as war because they're small, etc, etc.

No one was talking about "warmongering", nice straw man fallacy.
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Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 28, 2015, 09:49:44 pm
So if a country makes one little war out of his borders in the last decade, it automatically means that its objective is not to preserve its land and defend?
Autism much?

Nebun's statement about Russia's foreign stance can be right, even though it did the wars it did since 1991. For a country to be mostly defensive, it doesnt need to have 0 actual involvement in wars...
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 28, 2015, 09:53:33 pm
So if a country makes one little war out of his borders in the last decade, it automatically means that its objective is not to preserve its land and defend?
Autism much?

Nebun's statement about Russia's foreign stance can be right, even though it did the wars it did since 1991. For a country to be mostly defensive, it doesnt need to have 0 actual involvement in wars...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anyone

Is reading comprehension REALLY that difficult for you?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 28, 2015, 09:56:35 pm
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anyone

Is reading comprehension REALLY that difficult for you?


I guess thats the closest thing to "I concede the point" I will get from you  :lol:


To the others: sorry for the inconvenience.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 28, 2015, 10:00:37 pm

I guess thats the closest thing to "I concede the point" I will get from you  :lol:


To the others: sorry for the inconvenience.
Concede what point, you utter moron?

Nebun: Russia doesn't want or need to attack anyone
Xant: List of countries Russia has attacked
Butan: hurr durr but that doesn't mean russia is warmongering or doesn't need to attack people IN GENERAL!!!!111

I know this is probably still too hard for your little pea brain to understand, but what you're saying is completely fucking irrelevant and has nothing to do with anything.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Ujin on November 29, 2015, 10:08:32 am
Concede what point, you utter moron?

Nebun: Russia doesn't want or need to attack anyone
Xant: List of countries Russia has attacked
Butan: hurr durr but that doesn't mean russia is warmongering or doesn't need to attack people IN GENERAL!!!!111

I know this is probably still too hard for your little pea brain to understand, but what you're saying is completely fucking irrelevant and has nothing to do with anything.
I've read the Ukraine thread and know that it's what you cool kids like to do here when you call Butan (and some other people) a moron among some other names, but it doesn't make your opinion right, or, at the very least, it doesn't make it the only right opinion, nor does it make you look smarter. Especially when you constantly back your points up with Wikipedia links, like it makes you a goddamn geopolitical expert. Hell, even if you look, with some actual understanding of the region, at your own silly link , you'd see that most of those wars were against INSURGENCY on Russia's own territory and destabilization of the country.

Leshma (never thought i'd say it) is actually close. To make it short - Russia has it's sphere of interests. Whether the world and people like Xant (see, i made you look important?) like it or not, it's gonna protect that sphere of interests. No, no Soviet Union plans, relax your buttholes, haters. =)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 29, 2015, 12:32:37 pm
You're joking, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia#Russian_Federation_.281991.E2.80.93present.29

ON the list there is a war in my country - Transistria, which if fucking wrong name anyway because its Prednestrovie.
I remember those days when romanian and local nationalists wanted to kill or send away all who spoke russian. Made laws abandoning russian language and sent police/army etc to fight their battle and nobody of those who i ever talked to fighting against transistria - thinks that it was good idea!! Then after conflict thank god president was replaced with normal one and brought it all to balance!!! Transistria didn't join back, but trade was established and actions against russian speaking population stopped.
+ it was not just transistria, there is gagauzia who was also fighting at first. This guys some other ethnic group also not accepted by chocolate chip cookies government we had back then!!! while they lived there for hundreds of years.
Btw GEORGIA attacked in last war, they showed agression! After months of lies everyone admitted it in news in the west!
Chechen wars is more like what in Syria right now, other countries sponsored terrorists fight. I remember how west called them freedom fighters!
In Ukraine: Crimea and Donbas perfect examples. In Crimea no shoots fired, even west news agencies like forbes admit that to their polls 80+% of crimean population want to be in Russia. I think that russian mistake is that they didn't do the same with Donbas. They tried to protect their own people at the same time trying not to piss of other countries.
Since i doubt that west will ever be russians friend, they should have done it without caring what others would thing. Would save so many lives!
 
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 29, 2015, 01:24:38 pm
ON the list there is a war in my country - Transistria, which if fucking wrong name anyway because its Prednestrovie.
I remember those days when romanian and local nationalists wanted to kill or send away all who spoke russian. Made laws abandoning russian language and sent police/army etc to fight their battle and nobody of those who i ever talked to fighting against transistria - thinks that it was good idea!! Then after conflict thank god president was replaced with normal one and brought it all to balance!!! Transistria didn't join back, but trade was established and actions against russian speaking population stopped.
+ it was not just transistria, there is gagauzia who was also fighting at first. This guys some other ethnic group also not accepted by chocolate chip cookies government we had back then!!! while they lived there for hundreds of years.
Btw GEORGIA attacked in last war, they showed agression! After months of lies everyone admitted it in news in the west!
Chechen wars is more like what in Syria right now, other countries sponsored terrorists fight. I remember how west called them freedom fighters!
In Ukraine: Crimea and Donbas perfect examples. In Crimea no shoots fired, even west news agencies like forbes admit that to their polls 80+% of crimean population want to be in Russia. I think that russian mistake is that they didn't do the same with Donbas. They tried to protect their own people at the same time trying not to piss of other countries.
Since i doubt that west will ever be russians friend, they should have done it without caring what others would thing. Would save so many lives!

Yeah. Exactly 80+% crimean and donbas people want to be russia. It is a perfect example of why nobody likes to have russian speaking minorities in their countries. Because than those people want to be russia too and than Russia comes and annexes it and says "thats what the people want, shut up". Saving lives? Sure it is I quess. But its a peaceful way of invading and annexing lands that dont really belong to you. Its basically nothing short of colonizing.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 29, 2015, 03:33:25 pm
I've read the Ukraine thread and know that it's what you cool kids like to do here when you call Butan (and some other people) a moron among some other names, but it doesn't make your opinion right, or, at the very least, it doesn't make it the only right opinion, nor does it make you look smarter. Especially when you constantly back your points up with Wikipedia links, like it makes you a goddamn geopolitical expert. Hell, even if you look, with some actual understanding of the region, at your own silly link , you'd see that most of those wars were against INSURGENCY on Russia's own territory and destabilization of the country.

Leshma (never thought i'd say it) is actually close. To make it short - Russia has it's sphere of interests. Whether the world and people like Xant (see, i made you look important?) like it or not, it's gonna protect that sphere of interests. No, no Soviet Union plans, relax your buttholes, haters. =)
I know it doesn't make my opinion right, when have I said it does? Exactly, I haven't. Here, go read this, perhaps you'll learn something: http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/ad-hominem-you-3-things-you'll-be-perplexed-and-amazed-by-on-a-forum/msg1174601/#msg1174601

Why wouldn't I back up my "points" with Wikipedia links? Are you from 2002? Can you send a message for me, there are a couple of lottery numbers I'd like to receive in the past. Wikipedia is an easily accessible source that is right the vast majority of times and there are sources for everything. I know, you must be upset with it a lot of times because it doesn't go by Russian propaganda -- in fact, it deletes Russian propaganda. I can only imagine how heartbreaking that must be for you.

Again, you show a profound lack of reading comprehension. So what if most of those were against an insurgency? It doesn't. It does nothing to defeat my point. Literally. I never said everything on that list is an offensive war waged by Russia against other countries.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 29, 2015, 03:47:07 pm
Yeah. Exactly 80+% crimean and donbas people want to be russia. It is a perfect example of why nobody likes to have russian speaking minorities in their countries. Because than those people want to be russia too and than Russia comes and annexes it and says "thats what the people want, shut up". Saving lives? Sure it is I quess. But its a peaceful way of invading and annexing lands that dont really belong to you. Its basically nothing short of colonizing.

The problem is that russians is the most devided nation after the breaking up of soviet union a lot of russians live in different countries. And the problems start only when some nationalist fucks treat them harsh! For example even tho new government after sort of revolution in Moldova is nationalists, they moving things slowly! No more trying to kick out russian population or kill anyone, they slowly closing russian speaking schools and slowly making it more important to speak in Romanian language. Without any harsh moves! Now why couldn't they have done it in Ukraine.
chocolate chip cookies are harsh. In Lithuania russian speaking population and all those who got there after ww2 not considered citizens, basically treated badly!
:))) I'm sure that russian groups living in New York or London won't change anything there :) And i'm sure it wouldn't be used as excuse to invade them.
BTW so called transistria didn't become russian, nobody needs it except for moldova. It has 0 output in russian economy. But highest concentration of russian speaking there.
I don't see russians killing their natives or forcing them to give up their languages and traditions. Its county of many cultures/religions/races that manages to live in peace.
But when russians being attacked in ex soviet country - they all thriving for russia to help them, because no one else will.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 29, 2015, 05:38:31 pm
I get what you're saying Nebun, but using the term nazi to treat every countries with anti-russian movements, substract from the legitimity of your posts.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 29, 2015, 05:41:11 pm
The problem is that russians is the most devided nation after the breaking up of soviet union a lot of russians live in different countries. And the problems start only when some nationalist fucks treat them harsh! For example even tho new government after sort of revolution in Moldova is nationalists, they moving things slowly! No more trying to kick out russian population or kill anyone, they slowly closing russian speaking schools and slowly making it more important to speak in Romanian language. Without any harsh moves! Now why couldn't they have done it in Ukraine.
chocolate chip cookies are harsh. In Lithuania russian speaking population and all those who got there after ww2 not considered citizens, basically treated badly!
:))) I'm sure that russian groups living in New York or London won't change anything there :) And i'm sure it wouldn't be used as excuse to invade them.
BTW so called transistria didn't become russian, nobody needs it except for moldova. It has 0 output in russian economy. But highest concentration of russian speaking there.
I don't see russians killing their natives or forcing them to give up their languages and traditions. Its county of many cultures/religions/races that manages to live in peace.
But when russians being attacked in ex soviet country - they all thriving for russia to help them, because no one else will.

Well thats just it. "Nationalist fucks treat them harshly" is extremely relative. At any time can the Kremlin claim that their people are being abused abroad. For example, for pretty much always, Kremlins report on the Baltic always claims how fascist nationalist scum we are who is threating the poor russian minorities horribly and terrorising them. Russians(neutral) who are not related to the Kremlin and done their own reports have actually come to the conclusion that its the russian nationalist fucks themselves that are treating the native population more harshly, which is absolutely different to what Russia claim. This is kinda why I dont trust a single word coming from the East. Forever has Kremlin claimed that the Baltics hails Hitler and shit and torment all russians, but there is barely even a single individual case about it. Let alone a claim that the entire government is fascist.

I assume these completely unproven and false claims by the Kremlin are either just trolls or they are trying to cement the publics support by the time the window opens to annex the Baltics. Cause I see really no other reason to really lie this much with such agressive behaviour. I mean, yeah, sure, we sometimes poke the Bear. But god..."we all hail einstein?" dafuq.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 29, 2015, 05:50:15 pm
I get what you're saying Nebun, but using the term nazi to treat every countries with anti-russian movements, substract from the legitimity of your posts.

Its not just anti russian :)))
Our temp president after sort of revolt in Moldova wanted to make german ww2 crosses and give them to Romanian veterans who fought for Germany in WW2 and happen to move to moldova after the war. While romanians raped, killed, robbed and behaved far worse then germans in moldova in ww2. + he wanted to make for them separate parades.
Our ppl wanted to revolt against it because its a spit in the face - and president changed his mind and none of this shit happened.

Lithwania - my father goes there on business, they have chocolate chip cookie/FASCIST parades there. I didn't know about this things until recently. However he said even with lots of shittalking about russia in news all the time most people are calm and don't care.
Same for Litva, Estinoa - very nationalist government.
And now ukraine who sided with radical chocolate chip cookies in their civil war. They made bandera from ww2 a national hero, who was chocolate chip cookie and killed lots of civilians including polish/jews/russians/hungarians etc.
Obviously its not like population is like that, but some minorities that willing to take action and can control situation in country because regular ppl either don't care or can't do anything.
And in moldova as i said they also wanted to kick out gagauzi, who is like turkish/pecheneg origin can't remember check in wiki. they not russians but nationalists don't care, thats the point.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 29, 2015, 05:58:12 pm
Well thats just it. "Nationalist fucks treat them harshly" is extremely relative. At any time can the Kremlin claim that their people are being abused abroad. For example, for pretty much always, Kremlins report on the Baltic always claims how fascist nationalist scum we are who is threating the poor russian minorities horribly and terrorising them. Russians(neutral) who are not related to the Kremlin and done their own reports have actually come to the conclusion that its the russian nationalist fucks themselves that are treating the native population more harshly, which is absolutely different to what Russia claim. This is kinda why I dont trust a single word coming from the East. Forever has Kremlin claimed that the Baltics hails Hitler and shit and torment all russians, but there is barely even a single individual case about it. Let alone a claim that the entire government is fascist.

I assume these completely unproven and false claims by the Kremlin are either just trolls or they are trying to cement the publics support by the time the window opens to annex the Baltics. Cause I see really no other reason to really lie this much with such agressive behaviour. I mean, yeah, sure, we sometimes poke the Bear. But god..."we all hail einstein?" dafuq.
nice story but i don't see russia attacking lithuania, litva and estonia.
Russia will only get involved if they start hanging russians on the streets. In Georgia conflict begun only because Georgians bombarded first, they attacked.
In russia and donbas enough ppl who think that russian government betrayed them by not taking this territory and they could easily do that like in crimea.
Poroshenko is lieing pig even in ur news he is getting exposed now. I think in german interview recently he showed that he lies about OSCE, that he bombards donbas as per reports, and he was caught in interview and still never admitted it. And i said it ages ago that he is a lieing cunt, because i've read OSCE reports back then and now.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 29, 2015, 06:04:58 pm
Lithwania - my father goes there on business, they have chocolate chip cookie/FASCIST parades there. I didn't know about this things until recently. However he said even with lots of shittalking about russia in news all the time most people are calm and don't care.
Same for Litva, Estinoa - very nationalist government.
And now ukraine who sided with radical chocolate chip cookies in their civil war. They made bandera from ww2 a national hero, who was chocolate chip cookie and killed lots of civilians including polish/jews/russians/hungarians etc.
Obviously its not like population is like that, but some minorities that willing to take action and can control situation in country because regular ppl either don't care or can't do anything.
And in moldova as i said they also wanted to kick out gagauzi, who is like turkish/pecheneg origin can't remember check in wiki. they not russians but nationalists don't care, thats the point.

Actually I think they have that parade in Ltiva. It doesnt really mean anything. Its just old veterans who fought against the soviets basically. And define the word "nationalist" plz. I mean technically Russia is significantly more nationalist than all 3 combined. It would make sense that a government is nationalist. No? I think you mix up nationalism with fascism. They are not the same.

nice story but i don't see russia attacking lithuania, litva and estonia.

Because they cant. Thats technically nuclearwar.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Latvian on November 29, 2015, 07:58:56 pm
Actually I think they have that parade in Ltiva. It doesnt really mean anything. Its just old veterans who fought against the soviets basically. And define the word "nationalist" plz. I mean technically Russia is significantly more nationalist than all 3 combined. It would make sense that a government is nationalist. No? I think you mix up nationalism with fascism. They are not the same.

Because they cant. Thats technically nuclearwar.
they can take lithuania and nobody would care, hands off from Latvia and Estonia though
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 29, 2015, 08:13:56 pm
Yeah, what Latvian said. You can annex the germanmade carthiefs and plungerexperts, we are fine with it, whatever floats your vodka.  :lol:
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 29, 2015, 08:30:16 pm



Lithwania - my father goes there on business, they have chocolate chip cookie/FASCIST parades there. I didn't know about this things until recently. However he said even with lots of shittalking about russia in news all the time most people are calm and don't care.
Same for Litva, Estinoa - very nationalist government.
And now ukraine who sided with radical chocolate chip cookies in their civil war. They made bandera from ww2 a national hero, who was chocolate chip cookie and killed lots of civilians including polish/jews/russians/hungarians etc..

Poor Russians don't feel welcome after destroying and turning the entire area into a 3rd world communist shithole, they don't belong there.



http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g274951-d284404-r248216066-KGB_Museum_Genocido_Auku_Muziejus-Vilnius_Vilnius_County.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainiai_massacre



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War
I wonder why Stalin made a secret alliance with Albert Hitla to invade Poland

Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 29, 2015, 08:41:22 pm
Russians never considered Baltic countries as equal part of Soviet Union. They were fighting against them during the war. After the war they took them in just like some other countries who opposed them (Hungary for example) but they were more of slave countries. Turkey treated Balkan territories of Ottoman Empire pretty much the same. For lot longer period of time.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 29, 2015, 08:43:20 pm
Russians never consider Baltic countries as equal part of Soviet Union. They were fighting against them during the war. After the war they took them in just like some other countries who opposed them (Hungary for example) but they were more of slave countries. Turkey treated Balkan territories of Ottoman Empire pretty much the same. For lot longer period of time.

No they just  tried to execute and deport all the intellectuals and politicians in these countries to gulags, tried to erase the Lithuanian and Polish languages and identity from history and demolished catholic churches and defiled gravestones and then illegally occupy them for 40+ years after ww2 while importing Russians and deporting the local populations to Russify them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Lithuania

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%9346)#Mass_deportations_to_the_East
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 29, 2015, 08:46:58 pm
Except they didn't have much success at that. Just like Turks failed to wipe out native Balkan culture. Only country that managed to pull that off has to be United States of America.

Edit: Oh, why going full butthurt mode? We're just having casual discussion :)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 29, 2015, 08:51:32 pm
I guess Nebun and Grytviken speech cancel each others out.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 29, 2015, 08:59:13 pm
Not trying to defend Russia here, I'm very well aware of their actions and opinions. Would also feel the same way Tibe and Latvian feel if I were in their boots. Russia has "special feelings" towards their country and they are so close to each other. If not for NATO, they would be in danger. But I also understand why Russia acted towards Ukraine in way they did. Ukraine is different from Baltics, it is place where Russian national identity started no matter what some smaller factions like Banderist believe. Ukraine and Russia are historically even closer than USA and Canada. Imagine if Russia turned Canada against USA, how would that end?

While they share some similarities, biggest difference between USA and other "superpowers" like Russia, China, Brazil is that they tend to mind their own business and deal with countries that have historical ties with them.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 29, 2015, 09:00:01 pm
Except they didn't have much success at that. Just like Turks failed to wipe out native Balkan culture. Only country that managed to pull that off has to be United States of America.

Edit: Oh, why going full butthurt mode? We're just having casual discussion :)

Russians and their bootlickers complaining and pointing the finger calling others fascist when they openly allied with Hittlerr in ww2 to destroy their own slavic "brothers". They should worry about their own failure of an economy before trying to influence others, everything they touch turns to shit.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 29, 2015, 09:00:20 pm
Except they didn't have much success at that. Just like Turks failed to wipe out native Balkan culture. Only country that managed to pull that off has to be United States of America.

Edit: Oh, why going full butthurt mode? We're just having casual discussion :)

Yeah. Exept back than it wasnt the United States. It was kinda "the United Everybody Else" besides the natives, that did that.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 29, 2015, 09:06:00 pm
You're mixing them with conquistadors. United States of America existed and fought against native American tribes. They didn't perish before USA was founded (1776). Conflict between settlers and natives started earlier but USA forces defeated Indians, not European settlers.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 29, 2015, 09:11:20 pm
You're mixing them with conquistadors. United States of America existed and fought against native American tribes. They didn't perish before USA was founded (1776). Conflict between settlers and natives started earlier but USA forces defeated Indians, not European settlers.

 The French and Spanish paid Natives to attack English settlers as early as the 1600's. During the US war of independence the British also hired many Native American and German mercenaries, this ruined relations between the colonists and many Native tribes. Native American tribes also warred with each other constantly since Europeans arrived.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 29, 2015, 09:19:18 pm
I fully understand the bad blood. Same with Russia and Baltic states. But where Russia and even einstein's Germany failed, USA succeed. Indian Removal Act sounds so much like Final Solution, doesn't it? Except some Jews survived and formed their own state, much like Armenians. I don't see Cherokee state today, do you? At least you've named a car after them, that's something I guess.

Indian Removal Act wasn't even supported by everybody. But it passed after much struggle. Probably one of the reasons why few decades after Civil War happened, among other things.

But let's go back to present day. Imagine Trump wins and Kebab Removal Act happens despite protests of various interest groups. USA as leading world country has every right to deal with backwards muslims, it's not like they will survive for much longer because they are constantly fighting among themselves... Isn't even that far fetched from reality at this point.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 29, 2015, 09:20:08 pm
Oh please, you assume that the natives ever had a shot to begin with? The moment the first outsider set foot on the New World they were fucked. You forget that entire Europe back than was at full imperial justice mode. The most the natives would have ever gotten would have been a small nation in the Americas. Thats just about it. South-America Indians are basically gone aswell. Yet the US never purged there.

I get that your in full US blame mode. Really, I do. But common? The indians? Really? Every major power at that time is to be blamed for that.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 29, 2015, 09:34:16 pm
I fully understand the bad blood. Same with Russia and Baltic states. But where Russia and even einstein's Germany failed, USA succeed. Indian Removal Act sounds so much like Final Solution, doesn't it? Except some Jews survived and formed their own state, much like Armenians. I don't see Cherokee state today, do you? At least you've named a car after them, that's something I guess.

Indian Removal Act wasn't even supported by everybody. But it passed after much struggle. Probably one of the reasons why few decades after Civil War happened, among other things.

But let's go back to present day. Imagine Trump wins and Kebab Removal Act happens despite protests of various interest groups. USA as leading world country has every right to deal with backwards muslims, it's not like they will survive for much longer because they are constantly fighting among themselves... Isn't even that far fetched from reality at this point.

The Cherokee are still around. They have 3 tribes. The government is still paying out billions in reparations to different tribes, which they should imo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_sovereignty_in_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federally_recognized_tribes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_gaming

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahlequah,_Oklahoma



They have sovereignty and are exempt from taxes and have their own government.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 29, 2015, 09:44:12 pm
Is Russia ever going to pay reparations to the Baltic States, Lithuania, Poland and the indigenous ppl of Siberia and Kamchatka ? What about reparations to Finland for Karelia?  Or do they still have the Imperial mindset that Europeans had 300 years ago?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 29, 2015, 09:46:02 pm
Eastern Europe belongs to mighty Russia.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 29, 2015, 10:00:51 pm
Is Russia ever going to pay reparations to the Baltic States, Lithuania, Poland and the indigenous ppl of Siberia and Kamchatka ? What about reparations to Finland for Karelia?  Or do they still have the Imperial mindset that Europeans had 300 years ago?

Hah. Reparations? They cant even find it in their warm non-agressive sweet hearts, like they claim to have, that they might have been even the slightest bit wrong with all that. Oh noooooo. You get all kinds of stupid justifications even. "We were liberating". Is generally the most common claim. Infact they would rather rewrite history with false facts, rather than say that they might have been slightly wrong. Something even similar to an apology is probably lightyears away. The word reparations doesnt even translate to russian very well.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 29, 2015, 10:08:40 pm
Hah. Reparations? They cant even find it in their warm non-agressive sweet hearts, like they claim to have, that they might have been even the slightest bit wrong with all that. Oh noooooo. You get all kinds of stupid justifications even. "We were liberating". Is generally the most common claim. Infact they would rather rewrite history with false facts, rather than say that they might have been slightly wrong. Something even similar to an apology is probably lightyears away. The word reparations doesnt even translate to russian very well.

  Germany had to pay a huge amount of reparations even while half their nation was illegally occupied while Russia got to illegally occupy pillage and steal half of Europe's wealth and didn't have to pay a dime, despite the fact that they were allied to the Germans in the first half of ww2.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 29, 2015, 10:15:21 pm
Don't you know that nazi gold is still hidden. How could they pillage Europe if there was nothing to be taken at that point? Every golden tooth, gold coin, silverware, anything of value is still stashed in airship, flying under Major's command.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 29, 2015, 10:35:48 pm
First of all about fascist parades, is there any in Germany or France or Italy, celebrating those great days when they lost a war but still killed lots of people?
Russians had their own fascist scum vlasov and his group who joined chocolate chip cookies in ww2. I don't see no parades in russia in their memory. It is a big deal. Maybe fascism or neo YMCA ok for u, but not for me.
Russians more like patriots - hard to call them nationalists because russia is home for many nations. If u getting confused when i use word nationalizm, then replace it with YMCA. I'm sure u understood me anyway.

Its very interesting about reparations and hate against russia. Is there still hate to germany from all EU countries for ww2? No u all getting along now.
And its nice for u to mention Stalin. Well u see how soviet union worked, every country had its own communist party and soviet union placed them in power, and those parties also repressed their own population!!! And all problems and shit things that happened in soviet union happened to all countries and most to russia itself starting from fucking revolution that nobody needed, lots of people murdered or fled the country. Stalin was Georgian, those guys also blame russia for all they've done to it under stalin. Hruscev was Ukrainian.
And to be honest most of everyone who won out of communism was ukrainians. Basically Lenin created ukraine after revolution, and when it was grabbed by soviet union over time it was provided with lots of land including crimea!!! If not for that ukraine wouldn't even exist and probably for the best. In my opinion. But i would give west ukraine back to poland, except for Kiev. I don't think russia needs crazy chocolate chip cookies in its country.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 29, 2015, 11:33:06 pm
First of all about fascist parades, is there any in Germany or France or Italy, celebrating those great days when they lost a war but still killed lots of people?
Russians had their own fascist scum vlasov and his group who joined chocolate chip cookies in ww2. I don't see no parades in russia in their memory. It is a big deal. Maybe fascism or neo YMCA ok for u, but not for me.
Russians more like patriots - hard to call them nationalists because russia is home for many nations. If u getting confused when i use word nationalizm, then replace it with YMCA. I'm sure u understood me anyway.

Its very interesting about reparations and hate against russia. Is there still hate to germany from all EU countries for ww2? No u all getting along now.
And its nice for u to mention Stalin. Well u see how soviet union worked, every country had its own communist party and soviet union placed them in power, and those parties also repressed their own population!!! And all problems and shit things that happened in soviet union happened to all countries and most to russia itself starting from fucking revolution that nobody needed, lots of people murdered or fled the country. Stalin was Georgian, those guys also blame russia for all they've done to it under stalin. Hruscev was Ukrainian.
And to be honest most of everyone who won out of communism was ukrainians. Basically Lenin created ukraine after revolution, and when it was grabbed by soviet union over time it was provided with lots of land including crimea!!! If not for that ukraine wouldn't even exist and probably for the best. In my opinion. But i would give west ukraine back to poland, except for Kiev. I don't think russia needs crazy chocolate chip cookies in its country.

Are you kidding me? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor  Starving millions of Ukrainians to death is winning out? Are you really surprised that Ukrainians and Cossacks cheered on the Germans when they entered Ukraine and many of them even helped the Germans?  I don't think Ukraine owes anything to Russia, I think it should be the other way around, but like we see today, the Russians are still hell bent on screwing over their neighbors and infiltrating their government to "influence" them.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 29, 2015, 11:59:54 pm
Don't you know that nazi gold is still hidden. How could they pillage Europe if there was nothing to be taken at that point? Every golden tooth, gold coin, silverware, anything of value is still stashed in airship, flying under Major's command.

Deporting millions of people and stealing their land, businesses, farms and universities is not theft?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 30, 2015, 01:01:33 am
Where did I say that? Was merely trying to make a joke, to liven up a thread because you went into full butthurt mode when I mentioned Indians...
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 30, 2015, 01:42:24 am
Is Russia ever going to pay reparations to the Baltic States, Lithuania, Poland and the indigenous ppl of Siberia and Kamchatka ? What about reparations to Finland for Karelia?  Or do they still have the Imperial mindset that Europeans had 300 years ago?
nope we just leave them their lives and lands XD
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 30, 2015, 07:14:34 am
First of all about fascist parades, is there any in Germany or France or Italy, celebrating those great days when they lost a war but still killed lots of people?
Russians had their own fascist scum vlasov and his group who joined chocolate chip cookies in ww2. I don't see no parades in russia in their memory. It is a big deal. Maybe fascism or neo YMCA ok for u, but not for me.
Russians more like patriots - hard to call them nationalists because russia is home for many nations. If u getting confused when i use word nationalizm, then replace it with YMCA. I'm sure u understood me anyway.

Tbh, if it was left for me id ban those parades too. Quite simply because it provides the Kremlin to spread false shit about us. Most people, like yourself, instantly see that parade and assume, the entire country has fallen to fascism. Without ever bothering to looking into it any deeper. Even if we did tolerate fascism, theres really none of it exsisting to be tolerant of.

The "european nazi problem" your government claims that is a serius issue in Europe now. Does not exist, anywhere. One day you russians have to wake up and realise fascism doesnt not exist anymore. Or at the very least exist in a manner that CANT be considered to be a remnant of Hitlers reqime and the Nazi Empire. The nazis today are just some punk culture leather wearing twats that have swastikas tatood on them. No relation at all to the nazism(the ultimate enemy) your country fought against. You see a swastika you instantly lose logic and go mad and your government uses that to its advantage. Because you dont think, when you see something related to fascism. They are just disrespectful punks. Thats it. Not part of the governmental Hitlerjugend. :lol:

Why dont you call us patriots? Because our government or people dont really follow the fascist or neo YMCA agenda.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 30, 2015, 09:34:35 am
One day you russians have to wake up and realise fascism doesnt not exist anymore.

 I see what he's talking about in Lithuania.

https://www.rt.com/news/233119-neo-chocolate chip cookies-march-lithuania/

Funny enough Russian and Bellorus immigrants and descendants make up the large majority of these neo chocolate chip cookie groups in Lithuania. They are some kind of strange communist/chocolate chip cookie hybrid group that idolizes all the heroes of communism like Stalin plus they also adorn Hittlah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html?_r=0  Russian propaganda guru who has political ties tried framing an American journalist to make a connection between the US and chocolate chip cookie gangs in Russia in a fake news story. His media organization in Russia also put out a fake story of a ISIS terrorist attack in Louisiana and then made it viral in the US using social media. Not a surprise that they would put out a similar propaganda story on Lithuanians on RT news, doing the same thing in Ukraine too.

Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Molly on November 30, 2015, 11:17:57 am
Russia is a dump and I feel blessed and happy about not being born there...

Can we now go back to make fun of Turkey please?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on November 30, 2015, 11:23:12 am
Russia is a dump and I feel blessed and happy about not being born there...
me happy too  :P
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 30, 2015, 02:05:52 pm
Can we now go back to make fun of Turkey please?

[N]o

You can make fun of something when told to. Can't bother going through post history on this forum (SMF search is just lovely) but it went something like this:

Merkel has a dick beneath that skirt :P
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Molly on November 30, 2015, 04:03:38 pm
[...]
Merkel has a dick beneath that skirt :P
This might be very well true.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: [ptx] on November 30, 2015, 04:58:08 pm
The alleged Fascist marches, that Kremlin trolls are sure to bring up at any opportunity are actually Baltic Legionnaire marches, where old war veterans go to lay down flowers in remembrance of their fallen comrades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Legion

Any attempt to point this out inevitably turns to a change of topic to some other (previously likewise refuted) accusation of fascism.

Also, government of Latvia is not nationalistic. Hell, the only actually nationalistic Latvian party gets less seats than the rather likewise nationalistic "Russian" party. Most others do not want to cooperate with either.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 30, 2015, 05:07:53 pm
The alleged Fascist marches, that Kremlin trolls are sure to bring up at any opportunity are actually Baltic Legionnaire marches, where old war veterans go to lay down flowers in remembrance of their fallen comrades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Legion

Any attempt to point this out inevitably turns to a change of topic to some other (previously likewise refuted) accusation of fascism.

Also, government of Latvia is not nationalistic. Hell, the only actually nationalistic Latvian party gets less seats than the rather likewise nationalistic "Russian" party. Most others do not want to cooperate with either.
Yeah, a fascist nationalist WOULD say that, wouldn't he?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 30, 2015, 05:46:50 pm
The alleged Fascist marches, that Kremlin trolls are sure to bring up at any opportunity are actually Baltic Legionnaire marches, where old war veterans go to lay down flowers in remembrance of their fallen comrades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Legion

Any attempt to point this out inevitably turns to a change of topic to some other (previously likewise refuted) accusation of fascism.

Quote
The Latvian Legion (Latvian: Latviešu leģions) was a formation of the Waffen-SS during World War II created in 1943, consisting primarily of ethnic Latvian soldiers.

Quote
The Waffen-SS (German pronunciation: [ˈvafən.ɛs.ɛs], Armed SS) was created as the armed wing of the chocolate chip cookie Party's Schutzstaffel (SS, "Protective Squadron"),[2] and gradually developed into a multi-ethnic and multi-national military force of chocolate chip cookie Germany.

Quote
Ceremonial chief: Heinrich Himmler

I don't understand how they aren't related with nazis. Schutzstaffel was private nazi army.

For example, if you wanted to make a case of Rommel's Africa Korps having loose ties with chocolate chip cookies, I would back you up there. Because they were part of Wehrmacht and weren't involved in atrocities nazis committed during WWII.

Edit: Here's EU stance on that issue

Quote
On 21 February 2012, The Council of Europe’s Commission against Racism and Intolerance published its report on Latvia (fourth monitoring cycle), in which it condemned Latvian Legion Day which commemorates persons who had fought in a Latvian unit of the Waffen-SS and takes place every year on 16 March. It is held in the centre of Riga. Within that report is the following statement which applies universally concerning the Waffen-SS, "All attempts to commemorate persons who fought in the Waffen-SS and collaborated with the chocolate chip cookies, should be condemned. Any gathering or march legitimising YMCA in any way should be banned."
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 30, 2015, 05:49:48 pm
I'll back you up any time you want, Leshman.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: [ptx] on November 30, 2015, 06:44:24 pm
Yes, Leshma, an army unit fighting under the Na (http://)zis is related to them, however did you come to that amazing conclusion?

I said they aren't nazvisitors can't see pics , please register or login
is themselves.

Quote
Oberführer albert Ax, commander of the 15th Division, reported on 27 January 1945: "They are first and foremost Latvians. They want a sustainable Latvian nation state. Forced to choose between Germany and Russia, they have chosen Germany, because they seek co-operation with western civilization. The rule of the Germans seems to them to be the lesser of two evils."[13] This perspective resulted in part from the Soviet occupation between 1940 and 1941, called "The Year of Terror" (Latvian: Baigais gads) during which tens of thousands of Latvian families were executed or deported to Siberia with men separated from the women and children to break down resistance.[14]

Legion command emphasized that the Latvians were fighting against Soviet re-occupation. Conscripts promised in the name of God to be subservient to the German military and its commander albert einstein, to be courageous and to be prepared to give up their life in the fight against Bolshevism.[15] Legionnaires hoped to fight off the Red Army until it was no longer a threat to Latvia and then turn against chocolate chip cookie Germany, as a repeat of the Latvian War of Independence of 1918-1920, when Latvian forces expelled both Bolshevik and German forces. Legionnaires carried Latvian flags under their uniforms as a symbol of that hope.[16] This sentiment was also reflected in one of the most popular Legion songs which went "We will beat the Russians now and we will beat the Germans after that" (with euphemisms for Russians and Germans).[6] The Allies confirmed this as early as 1943, when a British investigative mission found Latvians stood against both their Soviet and German occupiers.[17]

As for CEARI, i suppose they eventually fell victim to Kremlin rhetoric and the incessant, non-stop provocations that the marches opponents (pro-soviet, pro-kremlin, even actively anti-Latvian groups) were doing to disrupt that event and eventually attract their Latvian nationalistic counterparts (tiny bands of radicals) to radicalize the whole thing.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 30, 2015, 07:09:44 pm
You can find that document online. It does mention Russians but also mentions Jewish graves being desecrated, bad treatment of Roma population and other things typical for former Block countries. Document sounds like typical Human Rights rhetoric, doesn't look like Kremlin propaganda to me.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 30, 2015, 07:21:16 pm
[N]o

You can make fun of something when told to. Can't bother going through post history on this forum (SMF search is just lovely) but it went something like this:
  • few years ago Assad was found out to be killing Syrian children with chemical weapons in attempt to remove rebel threat - cRPG angry at Assad. Satan, sadist and tyrant. Has Ruskie support. Bring him down.
  • ISIL has grown, became a threat, Charlie Hebdo happened - Assad may be an asshole but fuck it those children aren't ours. Assad man good enough, keep him to fight ISIL and restore piece in middle east, we can live with his tyranny. We can live with Putin supporting him.
  • Assad losing the fight against ISIL and in the process becoming a better man (!?), forum fully supports Assad bro; ISIL chopping heads off left and right, angry gaijin call for crusade.
  • ISIL wrecks Paris, Oberyn fuming, Pepe not sure of his emotions; Forum in FULL KEBAB HATE MODE, forum muslims feel it and make funny posts; Assad major bro, a saviors son; Grand savior of world and mankind, Putin-san bombs the living shit out of ISIL; We are winning, no need for crusade, our slavic brothers will win the war for us. Bombing is good for people in ze middel east! (not like we care if they they die, means less filthy ISIL warriors entering EU disguised as refugees)
  • Ruskie pilot after few bottles of Vodka, navigating with Soviet map dating before WWII enters Turkish border for few hundert meters, just after he dropped some bass on them Turkmen uhm ISIL villages; Erdogod's son pissed off because latest free oil shipments are late beccause destroyed says FUCK IT and orders mighty Turkish army to bring down the pilot. Plane went fuming, pilot shot in air, Turkmen going Allah Ackbar for 30 minutes...
  • We should be angry as ISIL, but Norwegian NATO boss says Russia will be dealt with if touches our Turkey before Thanksgiving. Russia bad, Assad devil, forgot about ISIL and Paris. It's time for festivities, fellow forumen.

Merkel has a dick beneath that skirt :P

u forgot to mention how many USA killed in middle east. Not that Sadam or Assad great guys, but west outkilled them
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 30, 2015, 07:24:35 pm
u forgot to mention how many USA killed in middle east. Not that Sadam or Assad great guys, but west outkilled them
Yes, killing the killers.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 30, 2015, 07:34:36 pm
Are you kidding me? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor  Starving millions of Ukrainians to death is winning out? Are you really surprised that Ukrainians and Cossacks cheered on the Germans when they entered Ukraine and many of them even helped the Germans?  I don't think Ukraine owes anything to Russia, I think it should be the other way around, but like we see today, the Russians are still hell bent on screwing over their neighbors and infiltrating their government to "influence" them.

Did u read the full story or is it Ukraine edited version? Holodomor was in my country too and all over russia and many other soviet union regions. Very bad thing for sure. If u want to blame someone on large scale then blame all soviet union, all soviet parties in each country. If u need specific person, then u can blame stalin who is georgian. The thing is that russia lived through all the shit as well. Now its not a soviet country anymore. Same as french is not napoleonic empire and german is no longer chocolate chip cookie germany and usa stopped killing indians, maybe because none left or they like their casinos, they have other entertainment - making bets if black children will live up to 30 without getting shot by a cop.
My grandparents told me of holodomor times btw, horrible times. But before Soviet Union collapsed they loved Soviet Union. They loved the free stuff. But younger ppl inc me now didn't like it.
So its not black and white and russian not supose to be blamed for everything especially for chocolate chip cookie marches in Lithuania.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on November 30, 2015, 07:38:34 pm
Yes, killing the killers.

U missed huge trail of dead civilians, or they don't report u on things like this. I think the only thing they told u is the recent hospital bombing, and only because its international organisation. There is no war without casulties. Otherwise west should have invaded ukraine for killing their own people.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 30, 2015, 07:46:49 pm
Yes, every person Russia has ever killed has deserved it. The new tech from the motherland cant kill you if you are innocent or not a neo-nazi. :lol:
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 30, 2015, 08:17:30 pm
Did u read the full story or is it Ukraine edited version? Holodomor was in my country too and all over russia and many other soviet union regions. Very bad thing for sure. If u want to blame someone on large scale then blame all soviet union, all soviet parties in each country. If u need specific person, then u can blame stalin who is georgian. The thing is that russia lived through all the shit as well. Now its not a soviet country anymore. Same as french is not napoleonic empire and german is no longer chocolate chip cookie germany and usa stopped killing indians, maybe because none left or they like their casinos, they have other entertainment - making bets if black children will live up to 30 without getting shot by a cop.
My grandparents told me of holodomor times btw, horrible times. But before Soviet Union collapsed they loved Soviet Union. They loved the free stuff. But younger ppl inc me now didn't like it.
So its not black and white and russian not supose to be blamed for everything especially for chocolate chip cookie marches in Lithuania.

 Why shouldn't Russia be blamed? Holomdor doesn't even scratch the surface for all the atrocities and backstabbing Russia has committed in Eastern Europe. Russians deported millions of people in Eastern Europe to gulags and replaced them with Russian citizens who were given stolen land, just look at Kaliningrad. Napoleon and the Indians and what happened 200 years ago has nothing to do with this. Who cares if Stalin was Georgian, Albert was Austrian. The difference is all other Nations have been held accountable for their actions,

 I don't see Germany or Austria denying, threatening or antagonizing nations around them. Russia is home to the largest number of Neo-Chocolate Chip cookies in the world so it's quite hilarious to see them throwing stones in their glass house. It's offensive and humiliating to alot of people, and I don't see any other country doing this. Of course no sane person would go around blaming all Russians for being chocolate chip cookies, can't say the same about the Russian government in 2015 though.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 30, 2015, 08:52:08 pm
Russia is home to the largest number of Neo-Chocolate Chip cookies in the world

?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on November 30, 2015, 09:03:24 pm
U missed huge trail of dead civilians, or they don't report u on things like this. I think the only thing they told u is the recent hospital bombing, and only because its international organisation. There is no war without casulties. Otherwise west should have invaded ukraine for killing their own people.
So what? Of course civilians die, but the US is very good at avoiding civilian casualties. They kill less civilians than the native dictators did/do.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on November 30, 2015, 09:10:32 pm
?

Well come now. Just look at the images of the people currently rioting infront of the Turkish embassy. They are practically skinheads, senile old ladies and russian rednecks. I mean common. The president supports nationalist violent bikergangs. They might not be exactly neo-nazis. But they sure as hell are nationalist as fuck. Apparently the russian rule of thumb is that aslong as you are a skinhead who has tattoos of russian flags instead of swastikas, its not nationalism, its patriotism. The direct symbolism is the only way these dumb people can tell the difference. Not actions. Which makes everything they claim kinda biased.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 30, 2015, 10:29:29 pm
?

In a 2007 news story, ABC News reported, "In a country that lost more people defeating the chocolate chip cookies than any other country, there are now an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-chocolate chip cookies, half of the world's total.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3718255&page=1#.UCDbiaA4SuI

Despite Russia having the largest Neo Chocolate Chip Cookies population, most reasonable people know that it's such a small number that it shouldn't reflect on Russia at all. The problem is that they accuse others of being fascist chocolate chip cookies, Ukrainians/Lithuanians for example, using their corrupt state media to slander others when they have a much larger neo chocolate chip cookie problem than anyone else. The chocolate chip cookies in Russia work hand in hand with the state media to slander/blackmail and intimidate political opponents, obviously a problem there.

 Don't like someone? Have a political opponent you want to get rid of? Accuse them of being a chocolate chip cookie, and then send out the real chocolate chip cookies to wreck their shit, then run some news stories linking them to fascism.

Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on November 30, 2015, 10:59:03 pm
Last year Russia (Putin) banned holocaust denial and joined countries where denying that holocaust happened is punishable by law. There isn't many countries where holocaust denial is considered as criminal act.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 30, 2015, 11:17:18 pm
Last year Russia (Putin) banned holocaust denial and joined countries where denying that holocaust happened is punishable by law. There isn't many countries where holocaust denial is considered as criminal act.

 The more stigma associated with them the harder the slander will be on their opponents, doesn't surprise me.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on November 30, 2015, 11:25:11 pm
I have doubts how they came up with that number of 50-70k neo-chocolate chip cookies though.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on November 30, 2015, 11:44:09 pm
Last year Russia (Putin) banned holocaust denial and joined countries where denying that holocaust happened is punishable by law. There isn't many countries where holocaust denial is considered as criminal act.

Putin is the number 1 hero standing against European fascism/neo natzee. Vote Putin. Vote Vodka. Vote Freedom. Vote Cyka Blyat ))))
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on November 30, 2015, 11:45:26 pm
I have doubts how they came up with that number of 50-70k neo-chocolate chip cookies though.

Could be lower, could be higher, what constitutes a chocolate chip cookie? Since they technically no longer exist it's now a one size fits all label and stigma that can be attached to alot of different groups. Putin is a genius killing two birds with one stone, he was able to contain the Russian Mafia who were professionals, which is no easy task. If you want someone gone there is no better way to dumpster them then having them framed to be associated with fascism or chocolate chip cookies because then the masses no longer care if the assassin is caught. He's taking out the trash with the trash and these pawns are easily manipulated in the first place to give in to a dead ideology.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Macropus on December 01, 2015, 12:57:40 am
Russia is a dump and I feel blessed and happy about not being born there...
Yeah it's unfortunate to be born here if you don't know Russian language, very uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on December 01, 2015, 01:27:33 am
Why shouldn't Russia be blamed? Holomdor doesn't even scratch the surface for all the atrocities and backstabbing Russia has committed in Eastern Europe. Russians deported millions of people in Eastern Europe to gulags and replaced them with Russian citizens who were given stolen land, just look at Kaliningrad. Napoleon and the Indians and what happened 200 years ago has nothing to do with this. Who cares if Stalin was Georgian, Albert was Austrian. The difference is all other Nations have been held accountable for their actions,

 I don't see Germany or Austria denying, threatening or antagonizing nations around them. Russia is home to the largest number of Neo-Chocolate Chip cookies in the world so it's quite hilarious to see them throwing stones in their glass house. It's offensive and humiliating to alot of people, and I don't see any other country doing this. Of course no sane person would go around blaming all Russians for being chocolate chip cookies, can't say the same about the Russian government in 2015 though.

Wow replace word Russia with soviet union in ur speech. A lot of russians was also sent to gulag, and prior to that killed in revolution. Its still not a reason for FASCIST / NEO chocolate chip cookieS in countries around russia. That only tells me one thing they did a very bad job of not killing all of those. btw all this ideologies are products of the west :) communism, fascism, YMCA. Gets me thinking who helped/supported installing communism in russia. I don't know exactly how things would go if that didn't happen, but might have been a lot better, with soft transition to constitutional monarcy like in UK. And then Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia etc. and most baltic countries would still be in Russia :)))
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on December 01, 2015, 01:44:11 am
Strange thing just happened in Syria: in Tanab: USA backed "Moderates" with their radical not so "moderate" allies, captured this village Tanab from Kurdish that also backed by USA

Also in Ali Dumeir - so called "moderates" asked ceasefire with Syrian army, because they divided into 2 groups and fighting each other.
In Aleppo so called "FREE SYRIAN ARMY" bombarded Kurdish controlled territory. Both supported by US coalition.
As far as i know this just started happening recently or i missed it before. Anyone knows whats up with this? Pentagon started making gladiator matches and placing bets?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on December 01, 2015, 01:48:12 am
ooo same happened in Kishtar, free syrian army captured village and burning kurdish flags. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK31yQYxRRY
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on December 01, 2015, 02:08:29 am
Wow replace word Russia with soviet union in ur speech. A lot of russians was also sent to gulag, and prior to that killed in revolution. Its still not a reason for FASCIST / NEO chocolate chip cookieS in countries around russia. That only tells me one thing they did a very bad job of not killing all of those. btw all this ideologies are products of the west :) communism, fascism, YMCA. Gets me thinking who helped/supported installing communism in russia. I don't know exactly how things would go if that didn't happen, but might have been a lot better, with soft transition to constitutional monarcy like in UK. And then Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia etc. and most baltic countries would still be in Russia :)))

Dyadkin estimated that the USSR suffered 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" during that period, with 34 to 49 million directly linked to Stalin. In “Europe A History,” British historian Norman Davies counted 50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties.Mar 5, 2013

You don't find anything disturbing about Russia glorifying the Soviet Union in spite of millions of their own people murdered and unaccounted for?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on December 01, 2015, 02:17:01 am
Dyadkin estimated that the USSR suffered 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" during that period, with 34 to 49 million directly linked to Stalin. In “Europe A History,” British historian Norman Davies counted 50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties.Mar 5, 2013

You don't find anything disturbing about Russia glorifying the Soviet Union in spite of millions of their own people murdered and unaccounted for?
Soviet Union = Russia+protectorates, let's not mince words here.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on December 01, 2015, 02:26:26 am
Soviet Union = Russia+protectorates, let's not mince words here.

He's right it could happen.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on December 01, 2015, 01:12:41 pm
Dyadkin estimated that the USSR suffered 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" during that period, with 34 to 49 million directly linked to Stalin. In “Europe A History,” British historian Norman Davies counted 50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties.Mar 5, 2013

You don't find anything disturbing about Russia glorifying the Soviet Union in spite of millions of their own people murdered and unaccounted for?

Its all about timing, some people liked living in it closer to end of soviet union. At the beginning they hated. Russia has only win over chocolate chip cookie germany parade. They don't have Vlasov/chocolate chip cookies parades or holodomor parades etc or revolution parades or stalin parades.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on December 01, 2015, 01:19:08 pm
Soviet Union = Russia+protectorates, let's not mince words here.

Russia itself = Russian oblasts + tons of republics/semi-independant/autonomous regions.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Macropus on December 01, 2015, 01:48:18 pm
Russia itself = Russian oblasts + tons of republics/semi-independant/autonomous regions.
Agree, there are significant areas in Russia where the amount of actual Russians is negligible, and where most Russians would never consider travelling for any reason.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on December 01, 2015, 09:41:30 pm
Its all about timing, some people liked living in it closer to end of soviet union.

  This timing was built on half a century of barbarity and ignorance. Holomdor, The Katyn Massacre, Kulak massacres, mass deportations, slave labor, kangaroo court executions of intellectuals and ex politicians, land theft and the destruction of all social institutions and universities, this was not worth a barely acceptable low quality lifestyle.

 Why should the Russian government skirt their way out of paying reparations to Eastern Europe when Germany didn't? Russia killed far more people than the fascists did, and their foreign policy as of lately just adds insult to injury, calling the Ukrainians chocolate chip cookies and stealing their territory, I wonder who the real chocolate chip cookies are here, still too proud of the USSR to resort to diplomacy with these Ukrainians? I think everyone knows the reality is that Russia couldn't afford to pay reparations even if they wanted to, but I think it's the thought that counts.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on December 01, 2015, 10:06:47 pm
land theft and the destruction of all social institutions and universities, this was not worth a barely acceptable low quality lifestyle.

This part is questionnable.
"land theft and the destruction of all social institutions and universities" is what most of the bourgeois must have said, but for most of the pleb it was quite the opposite.
And "barely acceptable low quality lifestyle" does not really cut it. Could be replaced by transforming the whole country from a medieval country to a first modern power (speaking of Russia here). Wasnt done with love, people suffered even at the base of the pyramid, but it sure was better than before the soviet revolution, which lasted for basically quite a long time really. Cant deny that.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on December 01, 2015, 10:23:27 pm
This part is questionnable.
"land theft and the destruction of all social institutions and universities" is what most of the bourgeois must have said, but for most of the pleb it was quite the opposite.
And "barely acceptable low quality lifestyle" does not really cut it. Could be replaced by transforming the whole country from a medieval country to a first modern power (speaking of Russia here). Wasnt done with love, people suffered even at the base of the pyramid, but it sure was better than before the soviet revolution, which lasted for basically quite a long time really. Cant deny that.

Mainly in Eastern Europe, Russia tried to destroy all remnants of national identity from the countries they occupied. It was a well planned transition to eliminate their nationalities to ensure they couldn't regain independence to make way for their puppets. The NKVD would get into the town and city registrars and arrest/deport/execute/blackmail anyone with an education or position of authority, military, politicians and ex politicians etc along with their families.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Nebun on December 02, 2015, 02:52:52 am
  This timing was built on half a century of barbarity and ignorance. Holomdor, The Katyn Massacre, Kulak massacres, mass deportations, slave labor, kangaroo court executions of intellectuals and ex politicians, land theft and the destruction of all social institutions and universities, this was not worth a barely acceptable low quality lifestyle.

 Why should the Russian government skirt their way out of paying reparations to Eastern Europe when Germany didn't? Russia killed far more people than the fascists did, and their foreign policy as of lately just adds insult to injury, calling the Ukrainians chocolate chip cookies and stealing their territory, I wonder who the real chocolate chip cookies are here, still too proud of the USSR to resort to diplomacy with these Ukrainians? I think everyone knows the reality is that Russia couldn't afford to pay reparations even if they wanted to, but I think it's the thought that counts.

and germans burned jews alive, if its all about numbers then not all repressed was killed, at first was civil war, most died in civil war. Death sentence was to about 800k, 2mil + got jail, some deported, some relocated. Other things for other circumstances. Shit but don't twist it to even worse russian population suffered more then any other. Stupid ideology coming from Germany! that crippled great empire. Couldn't win wars in normal way so sent an idiot with ideology to do it for u. And when everyone thought this will fuck up russia forever - it turned up to become even stronger. But i'd prefer it to stay and empire then soviet union to start with and avoid all this shit. Well i'd prefer for germany not to become chocolate chip cookie germany and killed so many ppl too, but can't change the past :) Now again why is the hate again? Maybe when u look at the size of russia u ding dongs go very tiny?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on December 02, 2015, 03:46:36 am
What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on December 02, 2015, 04:01:08 am
and germans burned jews alive, if its all about numbers then not all repressed was killed, at first was civil war, most died in civil war. Death sentence was to about 800k, 2mil + got jail, some deported, some relocated. Other things for other circumstances. Shit but don't twist it to even worse russian population suffered more then any other. Stupid ideology coming from Germany! that crippled great empire. Couldn't win wars in normal way so sent an idiot with ideology to do it for u. And when everyone thought this will fuck up russia forever - it turned up to become even stronger. But i'd prefer it to stay and empire then soviet union to start with and avoid all this shit. Well i'd prefer for germany not to become chocolate chip cookie germany and killed so many ppl too, but can't change the past :) Now again why is the hate again? Maybe when u look at the size of russia u ding dongs go very tiny?

  You're missing the point entirely, the Germans paid reparations for their crimes, Russia has not. I'm not saying blame all Russians and i'm not saying Russians didn't suffer equally bad or worse. What Germany did should not be used as an excuse for Russia to not take responsibility for their crimes in Eastern Europe, especially since they never liberated Eastern Europe, they annexed it. Germany shouldn't be the only one to pay reparations when the Soviets did far worse and lasting damages to Eastern Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

This was a premeditated plan to steal territory, because the Russians got their ass kicked by Poland 20 years earlier and knew they couldn't take the territory without the Chocolate Chip Cookies, and we all know their expedition in Finland didn't go too well, partly because Stalin went on a rampage purging Russian Army officers.

  Instead of Russia helping Poland, they helped Germany invade in 1939 by attacking with 800,000 Soviet troops in coordination with the chocolate chip cookies who attacked from the West, then captured and sent all Polish POW's to gulags after executing 8000 officers (they lied and publicized that the Germans murdered them so they could recruit the Polish who were sent to gulags into the Red Army, they wanted to avenge their comrades) .

   Years later in the war they come back to "liberate" Poland, but not without first backstabbing the Polish Army and Government by refusing to advance until they were all eliminated by the Germans. They perversely stopped the advance of the Red Army and all assistance to the Polish Army they were previously coordinating with which marked the end. Russia would not let the Polish government return and broke off all communication and instead setup their own puppets, while arresting or killing the surviving Polish Army personnel and other civil authorities as they advanced through Poland.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: LordBerenger on December 02, 2015, 04:03:18 am
Europe belongs to Russia. By right.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on December 02, 2015, 08:36:05 am
and germans burned jews alive, if its all about numbers then not all repressed was killed, at first was civil war, most died in civil war. Death sentence was to about 800k, 2mil + got jail, some deported, some relocated. Other things for other circumstances. Shit but don't twist it to even worse russian population suffered more then any other. Stupid ideology coming from Germany! that crippled great empire. Couldn't win wars in normal way so sent an idiot with ideology to do it for u. And when everyone thought this will fuck up russia forever - it turned up to become even stronger. But i'd prefer it to stay and empire then soviet union to start with and avoid all this shit. Well i'd prefer for germany not to become chocolate chip cookie germany and killed so many ppl too, but can't change the past :) Now again why is the hate again? Maybe when u look at the size of russia u ding dongs go very tiny?
What the fuck are you talking about? Is Lenin from Germany? Lenin twisted Marx ideology and Germany can not be blamed for it.

Was Christian orthodoxy born in Russia? Was even christianity born in Russia? Was this concept of Monarchy you like so much invented in Russia? Ideas don't stop at borders and you will have to deal with it and stop blaming everyone around for everything Russia has fucked by itself. Went to Moscow and when you see how they treat asians there, you realize russian border didn't block fascist ideology either.

Lol at Russian tsarist empire was so great...at least if it was the case, peasants like you wouldn't be able to type bullshit on the internet like you do
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on December 02, 2015, 01:29:20 pm
Mainly in Eastern Europe, Russia tried to destroy all remnants of national identity from the countries they occupied. It was a well planned transition to eliminate their nationalities to ensure they couldn't regain independence to make way for their puppets. The NKVD would get into the town and city registrars and arrest/deport/execute/blackmail anyone with an education or position of authority, military, politicians and ex politicians etc along with their families.


I do not deny these events, but to sum up the whole history of the Soviet Union by them? Nop.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on December 02, 2015, 06:36:00 pm
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34979249
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Rhekimos on December 02, 2015, 07:02:12 pm
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34979249

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on December 02, 2015, 08:12:39 pm

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Xant on December 02, 2015, 08:59:59 pm
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34982951

"slander" says Erdogan!
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on December 02, 2015, 09:15:26 pm
http://youtu.be/nMA4B2ZnQ2o?t=16m7s

Recap, please? :)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on December 02, 2015, 09:24:08 pm
Holy shit. Western manipulated media is always one thing, that kinda shoots single rounds at what it aims, but the Russian propagandamachine is always a true magnificent piece of art to behold, that bazookas it. It just literally pounds that which it aims to the absolute ground, claiming almost everything imaginable. The word subtle is also another word that doesn't translate to russian well. :lol:

Its quite fun to watch Ergodan sweat and forced to be grounded for once, by someone similarly biased as him. Slim chance he might actually turn out as a normal person after this shitstorm.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on December 02, 2015, 11:27:36 pm
Holy shit. Western manipulated media is always one thing, that kinda shoots single rounds at what it aims, but the Russian propagandamachine is always a true magnificent piece of art to behold, that bazookas it. It just literally pounds that which it aims to the absolute ground, claiming almost everything imaginable. The word subtle is also another word that doesn't translate to russian well. :lol:

Its quite fun to watch Ergodan sweat and forced to be grounded for once, by someone similarly biased as him. Slim chance he might actually turn out as a normal person after this shitstorm.

You got to pray that this mean the beginning of a Ukrainian-like "revolution" in the near future  :P
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on December 03, 2015, 12:22:07 am
http://www.mediaite.com/online/turkish-court-hires-lord-of-the-rings-experts-to-decide-if-gollum-insults-the-president/

Turkey:

Doctor Bilgin Ciftci was fired from his job and could face two years in prison after he reportedly shared an online meme comparing President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to the faces of the iconic J. R. R. Tolkien character.
"Since the chief judge of Ciftci’s trial had neither read the books, nor seen the film franchise, the court appointed experts and asked them to determine whether the comparison is indeed an insult. The group will include two academics, two behavioral psychologists, and a cinema and television productions expert."

(click to show/hide)


We should have jumped at the chance to kick Turkey out of Nato.   :?
Muslim countries r crazy.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on December 03, 2015, 12:33:33 am
Like it or not there are tons of reasons why the West needs Turkey on its side. Russia now politically harassing Turkey is pretty much a godsend. The West cant(as in can try, but really should not) influence Turkey and its retard president to do anything for, again tons of reasons.  Russia cant(as in can try, but really cant) either, but it can atleast scare him and call it names. That counts for something.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on December 03, 2015, 02:27:25 am
I understand U.S. doesn't want to lose access to Turkey military airbases for doing airstrikes in Syria... but we don't really need those airbases. We have aircraft carriers which can fill that role. I'm sure there are more reasons than that, but not that I'm aware of.

Also there are plenty of countries we are allied with and cooperate with militarily which aren't in Nato. Kicking them out of nato wouldn't be the same as ending all military cooperation.
Afghanistan, Argentina, Bahrain, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, and Pakistan for example.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on December 03, 2015, 02:35:10 am
I understand U.S. doesn't want to lose access to Turkey military airbases for doing airstrikes in Syria... but we don't really need those airbases. We have aircraft carriers which can fill that role. I'm sure there are more reasons than that, but not that I'm aware of.

Also there are plenty of countries we are allied with and cooperate with militarily which aren't in Nato. Kicking them out of nato wouldn't be the same as ending all military cooperation.
Afghanistan, Argentina, Bahrain, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, and Pakistan for example.

Russia should just join NATO and no more problems
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Sir_Hans on December 03, 2015, 03:38:10 am
Russia should make their own Nato alliance with China, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Palestine and start recruiting others into the fold... Prep up those weapons of war for WW3.
Finally America will get to use it's F-22 Raptors in a combat mission.

Apparently nato just invited Monteblack in spanish into the alliance... Drawing the expected ire of Russia.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/world/europe/kerry-nato-syria-russia.html?_r=0
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/324312-west-russia-nato-monteblack in spanish/

Really it just seems like the west is provoking Russia with this invitation... Monteblack in spanish a country of about 600k with virtually no military doesn't add much to the table in terms of benefits other than expanding Nato territory/airspace.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Paul on December 03, 2015, 05:52:39 am
The thing with the black people hill tribe is that half of them are actually pro-russian and mad as fuck about this.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Thomek on December 03, 2015, 06:07:02 am
I just have to throw in some facts here.

Russia, in the eyes of the Baltics, and most of the west, is an absolute shithole. You have absolute corruption poisoning the society, basically making it very dysfunctional, extreme poverty and extremely rich thieves. All of this is exactly true.

The thing that makes it so painful to watch is that it's filled with relatively educated, modern human beings that live and die every day in this dysfunctional society. And they still don't see that it's their own people at fault! It's not about the west dominating or stealing anything from Russia, it's Russia looting itself. I saw it with my own eyes when I was in Svetlogorsk and Kaliningrad, supposedly one of the more modern parts of Russia. How the fuck can you guys stand it? I know it's not that easy to travel around, but ffs go and see with your own eyes. Go to Scandinavia, or even the Baltics or Poland. They've had huge huge progress since they joined EU. Poland now, and Poland 7 years ago (when I arrived) has developed immensely.

Nebun is the biggest mystery here. Moldova is the shittiest shithole of Europe, and inside it, an even shittier shithole, Transnitria, which basically is a country run on pensions and cheap gas! (Don't ask me how it works!)

This is what most of Ukraine, and the Baltics wanted to get the fuck far away from.

And OF COURSE Russian propaganda is trying to paint the west blacker than black. Really, yes there's neochocolate chip cookie demonstrations, now and then, here and there, because we are free societies where freak groups like that can actually exist legally. And It's true that when you count in Nashi and the like, you basically have russian version of hitlerjugend. It's not better, actually much worse since it's state supported.

Now about that plane.

I think its like this: Erdogan, the Assad, Kurd and Greece hater, nationalist to the extreme (like other nations with greater pasts..), is looking for an excuse to shoot down a Russian bomber screwing over the bullshit western fight against IS. West has little power over Turkey anyway, and has been letting them play their game in "their" neighbourhood, and Russia arrived to fuck it all over.

Putin doesn't mind at all. Great opportunity, he thinks, to undress the will-less helpless western fight against IS, and at the same time score enough points for the west to let him get away with Ukraine. Turkey and the west simply lost an excellent game of power politics played by Putin. (Who _can_ play such games because he's basically a dictator while the western powers has to meet and talk for ages and ages and ages..  )
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Grytviken on December 03, 2015, 06:14:09 am
Russia should make their own Nato alliance with China, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Palestine and start recruiting others into the fold... Prep up those weapons of war for WW3.
Finally America will get to use it's F-22 Raptors in a combat mission.

Apparently nato just invited Monteblack in spanish into the alliance... Drawing the expected ire of Russia.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/world/europe/kerry-nato-syria-russia.html?_r=0
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/324312-west-russia-nato-monteblack in spanish/

Really it just seems like the west is provoking Russia with this invitation... Monteblack in spanish a country of about 600k with virtually no military doesn't add much to the table in terms of benefits other than expanding Nato territory/airspace.

With public rhetoric like this it doesn't surprise me they would want to join NATO.

“The continuing expansion of NATO and NATO’s military infrastructure to the East, of course, cannot but lead to response actions from the East, namely the Russian side,” Mr. Peskov said.

Dmitri S. Peskov, the Kremlin spokesman, said that a NATO expansion would be met with unspecified retaliatory measures from Russia.

Adm. Vladimir Komoyedov, chairman of the Duma’s defense committee, said, “They are ready to admit even the North Pole to NATO just for the sake of encircling Russia.” The invitation to Monteblack in spanish, he said, means that NATO “was and remains an adversary of Russia.”

 lol  10,000 km border with China and Mongolia, so encircled.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Tibe on December 03, 2015, 08:01:43 am
Nebun is the biggest mystery here. Moldova is the shittiest shithole of Europe, and inside it, an even shittier shithole, Transnitria, which basically is a country run on pensions and cheap gas! (Don't ask me how it works!)

Not really that much of a mystery. As I understood he has that typical "the West is the reason why my country was poor in the first place" stance. And he kinda hates the EUs policy on Romania. Pretty sure if countries like Poland and other Eastern-EUs backed Russia instead of the West, theyd be still living in a mudpile. Its kinda funny how Kremlin doesnt really want to awknowledge the fact that its once occupied lands have so much higher livingstandards than its core. I call that a basic fail. Is it really a suprise USSR collapsed, when its provinces governments have proven to be so much more capable in running a country that Russia ever has, while also retaining significantly more of its autonomy, than the federations governments.

No suprise aswell that Ukraine made that desperate leap. Slightly late, but better late than never.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Kafein on December 03, 2015, 08:46:38 am
Apparently nato just invited Monteblack in spanish into the alliance... Drawing the expected ire of Russia.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/world/europe/kerry-nato-syria-russia.html?_r=0
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/324312-west-russia-nato-monteblack in spanish/

Really it just seems like the west is provoking Russia with this invitation... Monteblack in spanish a country of about 600k with virtually no military doesn't add much to the table in terms of benefits other than expanding Nato territory/airspace.

Monteblack in spanish is not part of Russia and never has. Montenegrins can decide what they want for themselves. If Russia doesn't like the result then too bad.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on December 03, 2015, 08:54:54 am
Montenegrins can decide what they want for themselves.
Sure but only if it corresponds the wishes of NATO and the US  :P Otherwise, this is propaganda and falsification of Communists
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Leshma on December 03, 2015, 01:02:40 pm
The thing with the black people hill tribe is that half of them are actually pro-russian and mad as fuck about this.

Russia is probably mad because they own shit load of land on Montenegrin coast, which is only part of Monteblack in spanish that doesn't look like Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on December 03, 2015, 01:36:51 pm
All of this is exactly true.

OK.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Thomek on December 03, 2015, 01:42:30 pm
OK.

If you doubt me, go and see for yourself.
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Angantyr on December 03, 2015, 03:38:32 pm
Turkey has gone from number 99 on the World Press Freedom Index in 2002 (when Erdogan took power), to number 149 in 2015, just surpassed by the Democratic Republic of Congo, then Gambia, then the Russian Federation at 152.

https://index.rsf.org/#!/
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Vovka on December 03, 2015, 03:47:21 pm
http://www.rferl.org/content/turkey-erdogan-proof-russian-islamic-state-oil/27404996.html

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Butan on December 03, 2015, 03:55:33 pm
http://www.rferl.org/content/turkey-erdogan-proof-russian-islamic-state-oil/27404996.html

(click to show/hide)


TL;DR: NO YOU
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Smoothrich on December 04, 2015, 02:47:02 am
I even know the author, who you read  :P

Actually it was a BBC radio documentary I listened to, that used actual primary sources and documentation, making it at least seem a little credible. It's not very sensationalized, the dude just seemed happy with his job as East Germany fell apart around him making his entire career pointless

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05nsd2b

Here's a web article version

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32066222

When I was younger I used to think "man, I really need to learn the Russian language" since I was like 10 years old studying The Cold War on my own and saw its nothing but Russians manipulating the West nonstop and most people don't have a clue lmao, I used to want to join the CIA in case it started Happening Again....

Nowadays I'm a full-fledged writer conducting my own research into stuff like ancient Slavic mythology/folklore and Russian/Ukranian Psychologists during the Soviet era (since u know, the Germans apparently murdered literally all the top Polish ones with the SS going room to room of top research hospitals filled with Jews and Poles and children shooting them and teaching everyone THE POLES ARE A STUPID, SIMPLE RACE.. I even grew up being called a "stupid polack" everywhere lmao) and I literally hit dead ends INSTANTLY.. cuz every source is in Russian.

You fucking bastards are never gonna translate any of this crap I'm sure lol, I guess its not too late to lock myself in a basement studying Russian for a couple months for basic literacy, but I'll prob snap mentally and fly to Moscow and end up like Edward Snowden imprisoned in a hotel room at the end of it

Anytime I hear news about Russia nowadays or listen to KGB defectors from the 70s and 80s etc I just assume they are triple agents or something and have to randomly guess what is honest or not

Here's another recent American documentary on Putin's career by PBS Frontline (the closest we have here to the BBC in journalistic credibility, they make really great documentaries on warzones or crisis areas especially)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-way/

I just think "they seem sincere, but they also seem like suspicious traitors To Mother Russia living in another country shit talking the government, like Edward Snowden started doing to America the Beautiful, and I don't trust him at all.... so.."

Title: EN GARDE!
Post by: Rhekimos on December 15, 2015, 10:47:42 am
En garde, this is Turkish Air Force! (http://www.firstpost.com/world/en-garde-this-is-turkish-air-force-audio-to-shoot-down-russian-fighter-jet-released-2521894.html)
Title: Re: Turkey downed a Russian plane
Post by: Kafein on December 15, 2015, 09:10:13 pm
Sure but only if it corresponds the wishes of NATO and the US  :P Otherwise, this is propaganda and falsification of Communists

NATO was there with tanks and shit kekeke xD