Turkey downed a Russian plane

[Molly]

And? Who cares if it's a war crime?

Russia most likely

[Xant]

Russia most likely

Yes, Russia is going to kill them twice, nay, thrice, more dead than it would have if they'd killed the pilots in a Gentlemanly And Noble Way In Accordance With The Geneva-Who-Cares-Convention.

[Leshma]

Geneva convention is rubbish, no one is sticking to those rules of warfare. The only rule in war is there's no rules.

[Jarlek]

Geneva convention is rubbish, no one is sticking to those rules of warfare. The only rule in war is there's no rules.

Except it's not? While it's still too many countries ignoring specific parts and letting incidents go unpunished; it's a massive difference between post Geneva convention warfare and before.

[Xant]

Geneva convention is rubbish, no one is sticking to those rules of warfare. The only rule in war is there's no rules.

Yes, anyone can look up how many people have actually gotten indicted. US, Israel, Russia etc don't even accept ICC jurisdiction over their nationals. It's a joke.

What's an even bigger joke? The notion that there are "war crimes." As if war is like soccer, a game, with rules and punishments. As if it's a gentlemanly and reasonable affair. War is already the ultimate escalation and has the ultimate consequence, death, for its participants. It's like making up rules for murder; you're both implying murder is fine as long as you follow the rules and that the murderer will care about rules once they've decided to kill someone.

Except it's not? While it's still too many countries ignoring specific parts and letting incidents go unpunished; it's a massive difference between post Geneva convention warfare and before.

There is a massive difference? Howso?

[Butan]

Like use of chemical weapons, to name the most obvious.
Geneva rules works as long as most people agree to them. Call it warfare peer pressure.

[Xant]

Like use of chemical weapons, to name the most obvious.
Geneva rules works as long as most people agree to them. Call it warfare peer pressure.

Only because there are no reasons to use chemical weapons.

[Paul]

They make war rather uncomfortable. Or at least preparing for it.

Source: Me, hating my ABC-gear back in the Bundeswehr.

[Knute]

I doubt the Turkomen who shot the pilot have ever even heard of the Geneva convention. These are mostly former civilians who took up arms against their government and not professional soldiers. It's sad what happened to the Russian pilots but they're involved in a brutal war with every side committing atrocities.

[Leshma]

Except it's not? While it's still too many countries ignoring specific parts and letting incidents go unpunished; it's a massive difference between post Geneva convention warfare and before.

Not really. Biggest difference we don't have World War going right now but these localized conflicts around the world are dirty as hell. Your country is part of NATO, isn't it? NATO isn't really sticking to its own rules you know.

Edit: Can't help not to bring UN into this. Glorious UN say this:

European border restrictions endanger refugees, migrants, especially children, UN agencies warn

Everybody involved is like

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


So much for UN and Geneva convention. Pretty on paper, nonexistent in practice.

[Xant]

I doubt the Turkomen who shot the pilot have ever even heard of the Geneva convention. These are mostly former civilians who took up arms against their government and not professional soldiers. It's sad what happened to the Russian pilots but they're involved in a brutal war with every side committing atrocities.

According to the Turkomen, they were bombed by those planes just prior to them being shot down. Why on Earth would a reasonable person expect them to hold fire when the pilot is parachuting considering that same pilot was fine bombing them (killing their friends, trying to kill them) from safety just moments ago?

It's like a bully kicking someone in a wheel chair, then crying "no fair!" when they end up in a wheel chair and someone kicks them.

[Jarlek]

Red cross/crescent for starters.

Then we got PoW treatment, the requirements of uniform, interference by non-interested parties to prevent human suffering (bosnian war and shitting on the bosnian serbs), anything related to non-related countries citizens caught in the war zone.

And let's not forget how looting, raiding and pillaging is practically non-existant in modern war. (Yes, I know rebels/guerrillas still loot&raid, but going from "every soldier, everywhere, ever loots, at any possible opportunity" to "certain small, underfunded and desperate groups does it, when they can" is a fucking gigantic change)

[Xant]

Red cross/crescent for starters.

Then we got PoW treatment, the requirements of uniform, interference by non-interested parties to prevent human suffering (bosnian war and shitting on the bosnian serbs), anything related to non-related countries citizens caught in the war zone.

And let's not forget how looting, raiding and pillaging is practically non-existant in modern war. (Yes, I know rebels/guerrillas still loot&raid, but going from "every soldier, everywhere, ever loots, at any possible opportunity" to "certain small, underfunded and desperate groups does it, when they can" is a fucking gigantic change)

What about Red cross?

Requirements of uniform, here's a good example of "no one caring":

The application of the Geneva Conventions to the 2014 conflict in the Ukraine (Crimea) is a troublesome problem because some of the personnel who engaged in combat against the Ukrainians were not identified by insignia, although they did wear military-style fatigues.[40] American pilots in Operation Southern Watch were documented to bear no insignia, so as to gain some illusory intelligence advantage.[40]

And you really think US SOF (for example) wears uniforms when it serves their purposes not to?

News are full of "war crime!" cries but nothing ever gets done about it.

[Leshma]

Red cross/crescent for starters.

Then we got PoW treatment, the requirements of uniform, interference by non-interested parties to prevent human suffering (bosnian war and shitting on the bosnian serbs), anything related to non-related countries citizens caught in the war zone.

And let's not forget how looting, raiding and pillaging is practically non-existant in modern war. (Yes, I know rebels/guerrillas still loot&raid, but going from "every soldier, everywhere, ever loots, at any possible opportunity" to "certain small, underfunded and desperate groups does it, when they can" is a fucking gigantic change)

Then the wars I've went through weren't modern. Because I've witnessed looting, raiding and pillaging with my own eyes. It wasn't done by rebels/guerrillas. That's cool thing about war, it is hard to tell decent soldiers from bastards. After few months everybody turn into a bastard. Only way to avoid committing war crime yourself is to exit early, mostly by dying on the battlefield or if you're lucky you end up being critically wounded and they send you back home.

War is a dirty situation, no place for noble actions. Will get you killed fast. Dunno who feeds you those fairy tales but it is damn obvious non of you who think like that witnessed war with your own eyes.

[Grytviken]

  There have been numerous cases of Russian pilots flying dangerously and illegally into other's airspace. When they do this they turn off their transponders so they don't show up on radar and have had several near misses with commercial airlines when doing so. In this incident it's clear that they were utilizing Turkish airspace to conduct a bombing mission. There was no way to tell whether this was a Syrian or Russian aircraft with it's transponder turned off, and the aircraft had been firing into areas not controlled by ISIS on the Syrian side and had been warned multiple times not to roundabout through Turkish airspace to re-enter that area. This was clearly a case of the Russians saying fuck you, we do what we want gone wrong.