Turkey downed a Russian plane

[Butan]

You're joking, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia#Russian_Federation_.281991.E2.80.93present.29

Have you read the link?
If you remove civil war and insurgency war, Russia made only a handful of minor wars in the last 25 years. Gained Crimea and "liberated" small as fuck regions/countries.
Such warmongering.

[Xant]

Have you read the link?
If you remove civil war and insurgency war, Russia made only a handful of minor wars in the last 25 years. Gained Crimea and "liberated" small as fuck regions/countries.
Such warmongering.

I have read the link yes. Do you have a hard time understanding English?

wow u close to the point. what not many understand that russia has more land and resources then anyone and it doesn't need or want to go to war with anyone. It only has to preserve itself and defend.

Ukraine doesn't count as "anyone", attacking Ukraine doesn't count as attacking, taking over territory from Ukraine doesn't count as wanting/needing more land, """"liberating""" countries doesn't count as war because they're small, etc, etc.

No one was talking about "warmongering", nice straw man fallacy.
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[Butan]

So if a country makes one little war out of his borders in the last decade, it automatically means that its objective is not to preserve its land and defend?
Autism much?

Nebun's statement about Russia's foreign stance can be right, even though it did the wars it did since 1991. For a country to be mostly defensive, it doesnt need to have 0 actual involvement in wars...

[Xant]

So if a country makes one little war out of his borders in the last decade, it automatically means that its objective is not to preserve its land and defend?
Autism much?

Nebun's statement about Russia's foreign stance can be right, even though it did the wars it did since 1991. For a country to be mostly defensive, it doesnt need to have 0 actual involvement in wars...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anyone

Is reading comprehension REALLY that difficult for you?

[Butan]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anyone

Is reading comprehension REALLY that difficult for you?

I guess thats the closest thing to "I concede the point" I will get from you 


To the others: sorry for the inconvenience.

[Xant]

I guess thats the closest thing to "I concede the point" I will get from you 


To the others: sorry for the inconvenience.

Concede what point, you utter moron?

Nebun: Russia doesn't want or need to attack anyone
Xant: List of countries Russia has attacked
Butan: hurr durr but that doesn't mean russia is warmongering or doesn't need to attack people IN GENERAL!!!!111

I know this is probably still too hard for your little pea brain to understand, but what you're saying is completely fucking irrelevant and has nothing to do with anything.

[Ujin]

Concede what point, you utter moron?

Nebun: Russia doesn't want or need to attack anyone
Xant: List of countries Russia has attacked
Butan: hurr durr but that doesn't mean russia is warmongering or doesn't need to attack people IN GENERAL!!!!111

I know this is probably still too hard for your little pea brain to understand, but what you're saying is completely fucking irrelevant and has nothing to do with anything.

I've read the Ukraine thread and know that it's what you cool kids like to do here when you call Butan (and some other people) a moron among some other names, but it doesn't make your opinion right, or, at the very least, it doesn't make it the only right opinion, nor does it make you look smarter. Especially when you constantly back your points up with Wikipedia links, like it makes you a goddamn geopolitical expert. Hell, even if you look, with some actual understanding of the region, at your own silly link , you'd see that most of those wars were against INSURGENCY on Russia's own territory and destabilization of the country.

Leshma (never thought i'd say it) is actually close. To make it short - Russia has it's sphere of interests. Whether the world and people like Xant (see, i made you look important?) like it or not, it's gonna protect that sphere of interests. No, no Soviet Union plans, relax your buttholes, haters. =)

[Nebun]

You're joking, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia#Russian_Federation_.281991.E2.80.93present.29

ON the list there is a war in my country - Transistria, which if fucking wrong name anyway because its Prednestrovie.
I remember those days when romanian and local nationalists wanted to kill or send away all who spoke russian. Made laws abandoning russian language and sent police/army etc to fight their battle and nobody of those who i ever talked to fighting against transistria - thinks that it was good idea!! Then after conflict thank god president was replaced with normal one and brought it all to balance!!! Transistria didn't join back, but trade was established and actions against russian speaking population stopped.
+ it was not just transistria, there is gagauzia who was also fighting at first. This guys some other ethnic group also not accepted by chocolate chip cookies government we had back then!!! while they lived there for hundreds of years.
Btw GEORGIA attacked in last war, they showed agression! After months of lies everyone admitted it in news in the west!
Chechen wars is more like what in Syria right now, other countries sponsored terrorists fight. I remember how west called them freedom fighters!
In Ukraine: Crimea and Donbas perfect examples. In Crimea no shoots fired, even west news agencies like forbes admit that to their polls 80+% of crimean population want to be in Russia. I think that russian mistake is that they didn't do the same with Donbas. They tried to protect their own people at the same time trying not to piss of other countries.
Since i doubt that west will ever be russians friend, they should have done it without caring what others would thing. Would save so many lives!
 

[Tibe]

ON the list there is a war in my country - Transistria, which if fucking wrong name anyway because its Prednestrovie.
I remember those days when romanian and local nationalists wanted to kill or send away all who spoke russian. Made laws abandoning russian language and sent police/army etc to fight their battle and nobody of those who i ever talked to fighting against transistria - thinks that it was good idea!! Then after conflict thank god president was replaced with normal one and brought it all to balance!!! Transistria didn't join back, but trade was established and actions against russian speaking population stopped.
+ it was not just transistria, there is gagauzia who was also fighting at first. This guys some other ethnic group also not accepted by chocolate chip cookies government we had back then!!! while they lived there for hundreds of years.
Btw GEORGIA attacked in last war, they showed agression! After months of lies everyone admitted it in news in the west!
Chechen wars is more like what in Syria right now, other countries sponsored terrorists fight. I remember how west called them freedom fighters!
In Ukraine: Crimea and Donbas perfect examples. In Crimea no shoots fired, even west news agencies like forbes admit that to their polls 80+% of crimean population want to be in Russia. I think that russian mistake is that they didn't do the same with Donbas. They tried to protect their own people at the same time trying not to piss of other countries.
Since i doubt that west will ever be russians friend, they should have done it without caring what others would thing. Would save so many lives!

Yeah. Exactly 80+% crimean and donbas people want to be russia. It is a perfect example of why nobody likes to have russian speaking minorities in their countries. Because than those people want to be russia too and than Russia comes and annexes it and says "thats what the people want, shut up". Saving lives? Sure it is I quess. But its a peaceful way of invading and annexing lands that dont really belong to you. Its basically nothing short of colonizing.

[Xant]

I've read the Ukraine thread and know that it's what you cool kids like to do here when you call Butan (and some other people) a moron among some other names, but it doesn't make your opinion right, or, at the very least, it doesn't make it the only right opinion, nor does it make you look smarter. Especially when you constantly back your points up with Wikipedia links, like it makes you a goddamn geopolitical expert. Hell, even if you look, with some actual understanding of the region, at your own silly link , you'd see that most of those wars were against INSURGENCY on Russia's own territory and destabilization of the country.

Leshma (never thought i'd say it) is actually close. To make it short - Russia has it's sphere of interests. Whether the world and people like Xant (see, i made you look important?) like it or not, it's gonna protect that sphere of interests. No, no Soviet Union plans, relax your buttholes, haters. =)

I know it doesn't make my opinion right, when have I said it does? Exactly, I haven't. Here, go read this, perhaps you'll learn something: http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/ad-hominem-you-3-things-you'll-be-perplexed-and-amazed-by-on-a-forum/msg1174601/#msg1174601

Why wouldn't I back up my "points" with Wikipedia links? Are you from 2002? Can you send a message for me, there are a couple of lottery numbers I'd like to receive in the past. Wikipedia is an easily accessible source that is right the vast majority of times and there are sources for everything. I know, you must be upset with it a lot of times because it doesn't go by Russian propaganda -- in fact, it deletes Russian propaganda. I can only imagine how heartbreaking that must be for you.

Again, you show a profound lack of reading comprehension. So what if most of those were against an insurgency? It doesn't. It does nothing to defeat my point. Literally. I never said everything on that list is an offensive war waged by Russia against other countries.

[Nebun]

Yeah. Exactly 80+% crimean and donbas people want to be russia. It is a perfect example of why nobody likes to have russian speaking minorities in their countries. Because than those people want to be russia too and than Russia comes and annexes it and says "thats what the people want, shut up". Saving lives? Sure it is I quess. But its a peaceful way of invading and annexing lands that dont really belong to you. Its basically nothing short of colonizing.

The problem is that russians is the most devided nation after the breaking up of soviet union a lot of russians live in different countries. And the problems start only when some nationalist fucks treat them harsh! For example even tho new government after sort of revolution in Moldova is nationalists, they moving things slowly! No more trying to kick out russian population or kill anyone, they slowly closing russian speaking schools and slowly making it more important to speak in Romanian language. Without any harsh moves! Now why couldn't they have done it in Ukraine.
chocolate chip cookies are harsh. In Lithuania russian speaking population and all those who got there after ww2 not considered citizens, basically treated badly!
)) I'm sure that russian groups living in New York or London won't change anything there And i'm sure it wouldn't be used as excuse to invade them.
BTW so called transistria didn't become russian, nobody needs it except for moldova. It has 0 output in russian economy. But highest concentration of russian speaking there.
I don't see russians killing their natives or forcing them to give up their languages and traditions. Its county of many cultures/religions/races that manages to live in peace.
But when russians being attacked in ex soviet country - they all thriving for russia to help them, because no one else will.

[Butan]

I get what you're saying Nebun, but using the term nazi to treat every countries with anti-russian movements, substract from the legitimity of your posts.

[Tibe]

The problem is that russians is the most devided nation after the breaking up of soviet union a lot of russians live in different countries. And the problems start only when some nationalist fucks treat them harsh! For example even tho new government after sort of revolution in Moldova is nationalists, they moving things slowly! No more trying to kick out russian population or kill anyone, they slowly closing russian speaking schools and slowly making it more important to speak in Romanian language. Without any harsh moves! Now why couldn't they have done it in Ukraine.
chocolate chip cookies are harsh. In Lithuania russian speaking population and all those who got there after ww2 not considered citizens, basically treated badly!
)) I'm sure that russian groups living in New York or London won't change anything there And i'm sure it wouldn't be used as excuse to invade them.
BTW so called transistria didn't become russian, nobody needs it except for moldova. It has 0 output in russian economy. But highest concentration of russian speaking there.
I don't see russians killing their natives or forcing them to give up their languages and traditions. Its county of many cultures/religions/races that manages to live in peace.
But when russians being attacked in ex soviet country - they all thriving for russia to help them, because no one else will.

Well thats just it. "Nationalist fucks treat them harshly" is extremely relative. At any time can the Kremlin claim that their people are being abused abroad. For example, for pretty much always, Kremlins report on the Baltic always claims how fascist nationalist scum we are who is threating the poor russian minorities horribly and terrorising them. Russians(neutral) who are not related to the Kremlin and done their own reports have actually come to the conclusion that its the russian nationalist fucks themselves that are treating the native population more harshly, which is absolutely different to what Russia claim. This is kinda why I dont trust a single word coming from the East. Forever has Kremlin claimed that the Baltics hails Hitler and shit and torment all russians, but there is barely even a single individual case about it. Let alone a claim that the entire government is fascist.

I assume these completely unproven and false claims by the Kremlin are either just trolls or they are trying to cement the publics support by the time the window opens to annex the Baltics. Cause I see really no other reason to really lie this much with such agressive behaviour. I mean, yeah, sure, we sometimes poke the Bear. But god..."we all hail einstein?" dafuq.

[Nebun]

I get what you're saying Nebun, but using the term nazi to treat every countries with anti-russian movements, substract from the legitimity of your posts.

Its not just anti russian ))
Our temp president after sort of revolt in Moldova wanted to make german ww2 crosses and give them to Romanian veterans who fought for Germany in WW2 and happen to move to moldova after the war. While romanians raped, killed, robbed and behaved far worse then germans in moldova in ww2. + he wanted to make for them separate parades.
Our ppl wanted to revolt against it because its a spit in the face - and president changed his mind and none of this shit happened.

Lithwania - my father goes there on business, they have chocolate chip cookie/FASCIST parades there. I didn't know about this things until recently. However he said even with lots of shittalking about russia in news all the time most people are calm and don't care.
Same for Litva, Estinoa - very nationalist government.
And now ukraine who sided with radical chocolate chip cookies in their civil war. They made bandera from ww2 a national hero, who was chocolate chip cookie and killed lots of civilians including polish/jews/russians/hungarians etc.
Obviously its not like population is like that, but some minorities that willing to take action and can control situation in country because regular ppl either don't care or can't do anything.
And in moldova as i said they also wanted to kick out gagauzi, who is like turkish/pecheneg origin can't remember check in wiki. they not russians but nationalists don't care, thats the point.

[Nebun]

Well thats just it. "Nationalist fucks treat them harshly" is extremely relative. At any time can the Kremlin claim that their people are being abused abroad. For example, for pretty much always, Kremlins report on the Baltic always claims how fascist nationalist scum we are who is threating the poor russian minorities horribly and terrorising them. Russians(neutral) who are not related to the Kremlin and done their own reports have actually come to the conclusion that its the russian nationalist fucks themselves that are treating the native population more harshly, which is absolutely different to what Russia claim. This is kinda why I dont trust a single word coming from the East. Forever has Kremlin claimed that the Baltics hails Hitler and shit and torment all russians, but there is barely even a single individual case about it. Let alone a claim that the entire government is fascist.

I assume these completely unproven and false claims by the Kremlin are either just trolls or they are trying to cement the publics support by the time the window opens to annex the Baltics. Cause I see really no other reason to really lie this much with such agressive behaviour. I mean, yeah, sure, we sometimes poke the Bear. But god..."we all hail einstein?" dafuq.

nice story but i don't see russia attacking lithuania, litva and estonia.
Russia will only get involved if they start hanging russians on the streets. In Georgia conflict begun only because Georgians bombarded first, they attacked.
In russia and donbas enough ppl who think that russian government betrayed them by not taking this territory and they could easily do that like in crimea.
Poroshenko is lieing pig even in ur news he is getting exposed now. I think in german interview recently he showed that he lies about OSCE, that he bombards donbas as per reports, and he was caught in interview and still never admitted it. And i said it ages ago that he is a lieing cunt, because i've read OSCE reports back then and now.