cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 02:32:17 pm

Title: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 02:32:17 pm
i like this mod i played it nonstop for over a year now but i start to play it less and lately quiting after one round cause of 20 archers on one hill shooting youre "FUN" away

don't bother saying take a shield cause its boring as hell and even then you get shot by 20 archers kiting around you

gime cRPG back you selfish cunts :D

Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on December 31, 2012, 02:34:22 pm
i like this mod i played it nonstop for over a year now but i start to play it less and lately quiting after one round cause of 20 archers on one hill shooting youre "FUN" away

don't bother saying take a shield cause its boring as hell and even then you get shot by 20 archers kiting around you

gime cRPG back you selfish cunts :D

need more cav to counter them
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 02:38:34 pm
need more cav to counter them
thats exactly the problem cause then there will be more archers to counter the cavalry :D
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Miwiw on December 31, 2012, 02:49:15 pm
Wasnt Archery a bit different in 2010? :P
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on December 31, 2012, 02:52:58 pm
Wasnt Archery a bit different in 2010? :P

It is different in its own gay way, back then we had unaccessible rooftops, even back then we had full plate pocket flamberge accurate lvl 65 archers or whatnot, now we just have plenty and plenty to smush or to get smushed by....

But, there is nothing more frustrating that getting triangulated by liek 3-4 decent ranged, you cannot do shit. When this happens like few times after each other in battle, i just GTX. (mind you i do play shielder, and even like that i find the amount of ranged fucking ridonkulous)
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Miwiw on December 31, 2012, 02:55:07 pm
But, there is nothing more frustrating that getting triangulated by liek 3-4 decent ranged, you cannot do shit.

Can you do shit if you get attacked by 3-4 Cav? Can you do shit if you get attacked by 3-4 other shielders? They must be really bad not to instantly own you. If you are facing more than another guy, you should actually lose unless theyre really bad or low level.

If its 4 infantry vs 4 archers though, the chances are high that the archers are gonna win if they stay on range and always run away.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Grumbs on December 31, 2012, 02:58:42 pm
Jan 6th is gonna suck, i'm calling it now. I'll be waiting for the first 4 mins or so behind cover before I can start playing

Nothing will change until the classes are more than point & click though (especially crossbows, the builds need tweaking too)
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Molly on December 31, 2012, 02:59:07 pm
Can you do shit if you get attacked by 3-4 Cav? Can you do shit if you get attacked by 3-4 other shielders? They must be really bad not to instantly own you. If you are facing more than another guy, you should actually lose unless theyre really bad or low level.

If its 4 infantry vs 4 archers though, the chances are high that the archers are gonna win if they stay on range and always run away.
Difference is that you can hit 4 cav, you can hit 4 melees attacking you but you can NOT hit the archer.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Gnjus on December 31, 2012, 02:59:36 pm
A typical scenario on EU1 these days:

(click to show/hide)

Just count the firing squad in the background hill. Makes the game completely unplayable for anyone else. "Grab a shield", they say. Sure, you get shot through the shield as well. "Go cav", they say. Sure but how do you approach them when everything gets shots down to pieces before you can even distinguish their outfits and bows ?
This is just one of many screens I have that prove the futility of what this mod has become. Yet we are all trying to play it, what a sad bunch we are.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on December 31, 2012, 03:00:01 pm
Can you do shit if you get attacked by 3-4 Cav? Can you do shit if you get attacked by 3-4 other shielders? They must be really bad not to instantly own you. If you are facing more than another guy, you should actually lose unless theyre really bad or low level.

If its 4 infantry vs 4 archers though, the chances are high that the archers are gonna win if they stay on range and always run away.

Actually i can, 4 cav usually gets into each others way, same with shielders, or with anyone who has to GET CLOSE TO ME to harm me, but, i see that you missed the point ranged can do this on HUGE fucking distances.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Adamar on December 31, 2012, 03:05:01 pm
I rarely see archers in eu 4, wtf is this?
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Miwiw on December 31, 2012, 03:09:24 pm
Difference is that you can hit 4 cav, you can hit 4 melees attacking you but you can NOT hit the archer.

You can hit the archers if they screw up (or all the 1 weapon-players sacrifice some PS/IF points and get something to counter them, like jarids, javelins). But anyway, it's always the same argument by many people. The range.

Cav can stay on range with their lances, unless you're having a pike/long spear, another long pole or a greatsword, you cannot hit a lancer unless they come really near. Actually same with melee, people can stay on distance.

The ONLY problem with Archers is, that too many of them are fucking scared to go into melee. Many don't even have a melee weapon with them... The class itself is not the problem. The players are to blame, not the bow or the Archer class.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 31, 2012, 03:12:34 pm
just make sure the archers arent able to hit you.

cover, zigzag and just dont get in situations where they can shoot you from behind.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on December 31, 2012, 03:15:42 pm
just make sure the archers arent able to hit you.

cover, zigzag and just dont get in situations where they can shoot you from behind.

Where is the fun in it for me when even when shielded i have to keep rotating to be at least partially covered not to speak i got shot despite having respecced to shielder as advised by them ranged supporters?
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 31, 2012, 03:18:53 pm
i like this mod i played it nonstop for over a year now but i start to play it less and lately quiting after one round cause of 20 archers on one hill shooting youre "FUN" away

don't bother saying take a shield cause its boring as hell and even then you get shot by 20 archers kiting around you

gime cRPG back you selfish cunts :D

It's a war game, a medieval war game.  Using archers was a valid tactic in war, for obvious reasons.  Heavy armor, shields, and cavalry were typically used to counter archers.  If archers were to get setup in a spot that was highly defensible, and hard for the enemy to reach, it would probably be a dumb idea to march up the hill to them and get picked off as you do.  Or protect your own team's archers/xbows so they can help you and shoot the enemy archers.

Your problem stems from your positioning, and your teammates tactics.  It's got nothing to do with the enemy using everything they can to kill your team. 

Grow up, take some responsibility for your actions, and try not to whine about a video game so much. 

You guys want to be able to run around and 2h rambo/hero everyone on the enemy team.   If it wasn't archers "ruining your fun" it'd be cavalry back stabbing you.  Sounds like you should go to the duel server, or play chivalry.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Osiris on December 31, 2012, 03:21:09 pm
the problem is people want to wear medium/light armour and run around with 2h swords and don't want to be shot or piked :P

one of the biggest things in crpg (mainly 2h heroes) is that people think that their class is the only fun/skilled one and everyone should play how they want them too :D
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Kafein on December 31, 2012, 03:22:45 pm
Remove the HP gain from STR, maybe even nerf IF + nerf the armor reduce factor (maybe buff soak, but many people don't like this) Voila, people actually start dying in less than 8 hits, melee is effective again, mod fixed.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 03:22:57 pm
just make sure the archers arent able to hit you.

cover, zigzag and just dont get in situations where they can shoot you from behind.
no offence but aren't you kinda only playing siege? cause the main problem is EU_1
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 03:24:34 pm
Remove the HP gain from STR, maybe even nerf IF + nerf the armor reduce factor (maybe buff soak, but many people don't like this) Voila, people actually start dying in less than 8 hits, melee is effective again, mod fixed.
nah just lose 2-3 HP with 1 PD so after 5 you dont really have much anymore and speed xD
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 31, 2012, 03:26:03 pm
It's a war game, a medieval war game.  Using archers was a valid tactic in war, for obvious reasons.  Heavy armor, shields, and cavalry were typically used to counter archers.  If archers were to get setup in a spot that was highly defensible, and hard for the enemy to reach, it would probably be a dumb idea to march up the hill to them and get picked off as you do.  Or protect your own team's archers/xbows so they can help you and shoot the enemy archers.

Your problem stems from your positioning, and your teammates tactics.  It's got nothing to do with the enemy using everything they can to kill your team. 

Grow up, take some responsibility for your actions, and try not to whine about a video game so much. 

You guys want to be able to run around and 2h rambo/hero everyone on the enemy team.   If it wasn't archers "ruining your fun" it'd be cavalry back stabbing you.  Sounds like you should go to the duel server, or play chivalry.
i totally agree, im a piker. my weapons are unsheathable, so i cant pick a shield. as i have to keep my weapon always in the 'ready to attack' position (because otherwise i will react to slow), i move extremely slow; this means im a very easy target for archers. However, i dont cry about the fact that i get shot from time to time, i just try to avoid being shot and i play smart, im not just brainless going to run away from my team like so many 2H
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 31, 2012, 03:27:15 pm
Not to say I don't sympathize with your complaint, because I do.  But I would never ask archers to be nerfed more, or for there to be less archers.  You have to adapt to the situation on the battle field.   One day there's going to be more archers, the next more cavalry, the next you might encounter 7 throwers on the enemy team, or a half dozen horse xbows.

I hated when strat 4 started (or just before) NA1 had a ridiculous amount of archers.  It was frustrating playing as I normally did.  But as soon as I started trying to adapt to the increase in archers (I got off my horse, and protect my own archers with my 1h/shield/lance build) then I stopped getting destroyed riding my shiny white horse as a target.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 31, 2012, 03:27:29 pm
no offence but aren't you kinda only playing siege? cause the main problem is EU_1
no offence, but maybe you didnt look that good. im playing eu1 more than siege for a while already. you might look out for a piker in cuir bouilli
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 03:27:51 pm
It's a war game, a medieval war game.  Using archers was a valid tactic in war, for obvious reasons.  Heavy armor, shields, and cavalry were typically used to counter archers.  If archers were to get setup in a spot that was highly defensible, and hard for the enemy to reach, it would probably be a dumb idea to march up the hill to them and get picked off as you do.  Or protect your own team's archers/xbows so they can help you and shoot the enemy archers.

Your problem stems from your positioning, and your teammates tactics.  It's got nothing to do with the enemy using everything they can to kill your team. 

Grow up, take some responsibility for your actions, and try not to whine about a video game so much. 

You guys want to be able to run around and 2h rambo/hero everyone on the enemy team.   If it wasn't archers "ruining your fun" it'd be cavalry back stabbing you.  Sounds like you should go to the duel server, or play chivalry.

atleast i can hit the cav or block (if not being couched )but ranged just shooting from miles away before you get to play youre already dead how "FUN" ...
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 03:28:52 pm
no offence, but maybe you didnt look that good. im playing eu1 more than siege for a while already. you might look out for a piker in cuir bouilli
probably won't seeyou for a while cause can't be arsed to play battle anymore
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 03:30:35 pm
i gues even archers get enoyed when they get shot by 10 enemy archers cause the balance is just shit
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Kafein on December 31, 2012, 03:31:19 pm
Also I'd like to point out that if an archer tells you "get a shield", it's bullshit cause you are not captain america no matter how hard you try, and in case the archer tells you "get armor" it's bullshit because any decent foot archer uses armor piercing arrows. Finally, "get a horse" is equally stupid as horses are big ass targets and they are not arrowproof either.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Grumbs on December 31, 2012, 03:32:02 pm
The ONLY problem with Archers is, that too many of them are fucking scared to go into melee. Many don't even have a melee weapon with them... The class itself is not the problem. The players are to blame, not the bow or the Archer class.

Players will play the game as its designed. Why should they enter melee combat if they can run and shoot? For players that don't want to learn the nuances of melee combat ranged is a very easy way into the game. You can fail repeatedly, for the whole round and still feel like you took part. Fail a single block as melee and you can be dead and no longer playing. The main draw of ranged is that you can play all round and not be put under pressure until the very end, especially if you can get up high where you feel safer

If ranged had similar risk vs reward as melee or cav they would lose some HP each time they missed a shot. People get so much damn ammo they can go to a hill and spam all round..something will hit regardless of skill. Its not even hard by FPS game standards since all targets move so slow. Mostly you're combating RNG in the shot and the target changing direction just as you shoot. Crossbows don't even need to be pure ranged. They have these point & click weapons as well as any melee weapon they want and medium armour, with plenty of ammo to shoot all round. These guys can still kite as well if they want. I wear medium armour as melee guy since to me heavy isn't really worth the extra weight.

There are so many tweaks to the game that could be made to increase the pressure ranged fight under. Roofs seem to have creped back into the game on loads of maps. The ammo could be reduced to encourage people to take care with their ammo or to get closer to the fights. The stagger that can debilitate a melee player and prevent him approaching can be vastly reduced or even removed. The headshot random kills can be removed. Jumpshotting can be removed (I see people landing hits by jumping and shooting over walls). 2 slots for ammo can be removed to 1 slot only, and even then ammo can be reduced. Damage type of ranged could be changed to a new type, and horses and heavy armour could be more resistant to this ammo type

It won't happen though because the tweaks to ranged are never enough. Even last time they couldn't just make them kite less, the devs go and buff the top tier bows and reduce the PD penalty on WPF. Each time they try to nerf ranged they add some extra buff in at the same time. Happened with head shots tweak too. The damage on bodies has creped back up to decent damage, and still the head shot damage is a 1 hit kill most of the time.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Belatu on December 31, 2012, 03:32:57 pm
MEH

Archers help to get the diference between one shitty Arcade and one medieval simulator.

Actually ranged have to play very strategically, thinking in teamwork, and cannot do all things they would like to.
That should apply to all classes.
I think this is the idea of mod that tje devs have and i think that is the reason for why so many people get interested in this.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 03:32:59 pm
Not to say I don't sympathize with your complaint, because I do.  But I would never ask archers to be nerfed more, or for there to be less archers.  You have to adapt to the situation on the battle field.   One day there's going to be more archers, the next more cavalry, the next you might encounter 7 throwers on the enemy team, or a half dozen horse xbows.

I hated when strat 4 started (or just before) NA1 had a ridiculous amount of archers.  It was frustrating playing as I normally did.  But as soon as I started trying to adapt to the increase in archers (I got off my horse, and protect my own archers with my 1h/shield/lance build) then I stopped getting destroyed riding my shiny white horse as a target.

i see youre point but i didn't asked for a nerf i just get frustrated by getting shot before getting to play or being dead before getting to play
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Osiris on December 31, 2012, 03:34:12 pm
atleast i can hit the cav or block (if not being couched )but ranged just shooting from miles away before you get to play youre already dead how "FUN" ...

thats your problem for going for a pure 2h build. If you pick the build with the best weapons, the best animations and the best 1 vs 1 class in the game then dont QQ when you have a counter ^^.

perhaps try finding some cover for a bit or maybe some team work or god forbid get some shield skill and a round shield.

My 2h is 18-21 which is fun, sure i get shot but if i catch up to people i hurt like hell. next gen tho ill probably go 18-18 with 5 shield skill so on open maps i can carry a shield.


Your idea of fun is charging into a melee and killing everyone 2h duelist style. That just doesn't work every time on battle  :rolleyes: (or get 3-4 power throw and throw at archers they hate that :D)
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 31, 2012, 03:35:22 pm
atleast i can hit the cav or block (if not being couched )but ranged just shooting from miles away before you get to play youre already dead how "FUN" ...

That's the strength of archers.  They can hit people from a distance.  But if you get up close, they are weak to melee. 

Every class has strengths and weaknesses.  In the battle server I prefer to have all classes on our team working in unison (one classes' strengths is protecting another's weaknesses).  If I'm putting an army together, I want archers on my side.   Just as I would want 2h's in heavy armor, pikemen, horsemen, etc etc.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 31, 2012, 03:35:26 pm
however, i think arrows shouldnt do any damage to plate armor. that is just plain stupid
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 03:36:08 pm
MEH

Archers help to get the diference between one shitty Arcade and one medieval simulator.

Actually ranged have to play very strategically, thinking in teamwork, and cannot do all things they would like to.
That should apply to all classes.
I think this is the idea of mod that tje devs have and i think that is the reason for why so many people get interested in this.
i don't know but alot of ppl can't be arsed to play anymore cause of ranged i'm not the only one

most are allready gone tho
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Kafein on December 31, 2012, 03:36:59 pm
That's the strength of archers.  They can hit people from a distance.  But if you get up close, they are weak to melee. 

Every class has strengths and weaknesses.  In the battle server I prefer to have all classes on our team working in unison (one classes' strengths is protecting another's weaknesses).  If I'm putting an army together, I want archers on my side.   Just as I would want 2h's in heavy armor, pikemen, horsemen, etc etc.

We should really organise this sometime. A full archer team vs a mix of shielders, pole/2h and cav and an open map.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 03:38:27 pm
That's the strength of archers.  They can hit people from a distance.  But if you get up close, they are weak to melee. 
this is how it should be but it isnt cause they turn around and run away and even if they have to run away the hole round they will do it so thats the main problem
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 31, 2012, 03:39:26 pm
We should really organise this sometime. A full archer team vs a mix of shielders, pole/2h and cav and an open map.
already happened: the horn bow battle where a fallen caravan that was transporting horn bows and (dont know what kind of) arrows, was attacked by (?)nords in medium armor. the fallens where naked and had no melee weapons. the nords were just slaughtered
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 31, 2012, 03:39:36 pm
We should really organise this sometime. A full archer team vs a mix of shielders, pole/2h and cav and an open map.

More than likely to happen with the terrible balance system :P  Just get archers to all put one banner on, and everyone else put another banner one.  Archers vs all and see what happens (I'd bet heavily against the archers, but that's only if the enemy has shields). 

Being able to hit people before they can hit you is a huge strength.  And I agree with no rules just play, most arrows should glance on plate armor (should have a small random chance to do damage to signify hitting a piece of the plate that is weak).

That's why it's very important to protect your own archers and crossbows.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 03:40:02 pm
We should really organise this sometime. A full archer team vs a mix of shielders, pole/2h and cav and an open map.
good idea but i will be spectator cause that is my nightmare
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Miwiw on December 31, 2012, 03:40:17 pm
(click to show/hide)

Sorry, I currently dont have the time to read your whole post. But I think I get your point by the first sentence. I wouldnt support an archer nerf or support that an Archer has to go into melee. I am fine with the current situation, but ofc I hate archers running away.

I'm no Archer hater (unless Im an Archer myself). :D
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Penitent on December 31, 2012, 03:42:48 pm
A[r]chers!
A[r]chers!
A[r]chers!
A[r]chers!
A[r]chers!
A[r]chers!

 :P I like 'em.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: donib on December 31, 2012, 03:44:51 pm
Make siege shields lighter and more spamable
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Penitent on December 31, 2012, 03:48:22 pm
http://forum.meleegaming.com/guides/%28guide%29-how-to-defend-against-archers-xbows-and-not-become-a-statistic/
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 31, 2012, 03:49:58 pm
Make siege shields lighter and more spamable
well the problem is: whenever you are trying to get a formation, all that infantery (lets not say 2handers again) gets bored and just leaves the group to die one by one. they dont even think about waiting a good moment or charging in one group while attacking the enemy while he's seperated, no they just walk up the main group or totally split up.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Wiltzu on December 31, 2012, 03:53:40 pm
The Fallen Archer Squad is creating a lot of rage =/
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 31, 2012, 03:56:51 pm
The Fallen Archer Squad is creating a lot of rage =/

It shouldn't matter how many archers are in one faction and wearing one banner.  The balance system should try to put relatively even numbers of each class on each team.  To do anything else is asking for a pub stomp.  These are public servers after all, not scrimmage servers, not match servers.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on December 31, 2012, 04:03:54 pm
The Fallen Archer Squad is creating a lot of rage =/

long time since this was the case man, more talking about druzhina nerds and byzanticunts
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: donib on December 31, 2012, 04:06:38 pm
well the problem is: whenever you are trying to get a formation, all that infantery (lets not say 2handers again) gets bored and just leaves the group to die one by one. they dont even think about waiting a good moment or charging in one group while attacking the enemy while he's seperated, no they just walk up the main group or totally split up.

That is true, it is always the lone wolves he get picked off first and by the time you have no one left to kill their infantry.

I dont think archery needs a nerf, you can keep nerfing until everyone is a 2h but that wouldnt make the game any better. Right now it seems people like to be archer, and one single archer is no problem but a hill full of them is. Nerfing the class wouldnt solve the problem. And i think it also heavily depends on the maps and their layouts.
The most simple solution is a limit to class x, or limit a specific weapon but that would also be unfair for people.

Maybe they need to make good throwing hybrids more atractive, so that every infantry man can have like 3 throwing axes or knives to throw at the ranged instead of chasing them without really hindering the normal 2h or 1h builds as they are now.

If you ever played chivalry you might get the idea, because the vanguard class always has some limited ranged weapons.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Pejlaen on December 31, 2012, 04:17:33 pm
*Implement volleys: Just as with the shieldwall, archers should benefit from standing in formation and using their class in unity. how about this?
1.While standing in firing line your reticule only expands as most to 50% of what it was when its the most accurate.
2. If there were to be ranks, so that for example any archer with rank 5 or above can plant a banner which creates the area where the volley features will be used in. To join in, there could be a similar thing as with the battalion system, and once picked, just get to the area and you are in.
3. The one who planted the banner also has a firing command, with an animation and voice screaming "fire". Every arrow released within 2 seconds of his command will give you 1 score point.

How to make Archery easy to learn - hard to master

If you have just recently started playing as an archer, standing in line with other archers and accomplishing a common goal seem to be something realisticly obtainable. That way, there is always a place for you to be effective for your team, you do not have to be an hardcore/top noch archer that jumps out of the way of cav while headshotting them to be effective for your team.

The one thing I can think of on how to make it more easy to learn - hard to master is to improve the hitboxes. A plate wearer should have very good protection from arrows that is not specifically designed to bring him down. It should take skilled or lucky shooting to hit the weaknesses of his armor and take him down.
Easy to learn: Being an average archer with average shooting skills, being able to kill enemies wearing low or medium armor, and staying back in the archer ranks firing volleys.
Hard to master: Having the ability to shoot and wound/kill any enemy and also being effective on your own outside the Volley zone.

Also, if there were a certain stationary zone for the archers to get the benefits, I doubt that the melee fighters that wish to engage in melee with the enemies melee units will have the same interference of ranged into their duels/fights since there wont be as many stray arrows flying from every directions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those^are some suggestions on how to make archery more tolerable on the servers that were proposed a while ago.

If it was implemented I think that this could occur;

1. There is an general location for the majority of the ranged in an team, which means that infantry wont have to worry nearly as much of getting shot in the back, or unexpectedly from the sides when fighting.
2. It adds teamplay for ranged, and it will most likely put the ranged on a greater distance from where the infantry will clash, since I imagine the volley-zone would prefferably be put up as fast as possible in a round, and therefore not to far away from your spawn.
3. It will reduce the amount of situations where an archer turns up a few metres/feet away from you, and you feel like it's pointless to try since he brought a gun to the fight, and you didn't.
4. Haboe realized that this could mean that pikers might stay back in the archery line to ward off cav, which also is a nice addition in teamplay.
5. Shielders wont be shot from every direction and can maintain their block much easier, + just imagine when your shieldwall advances and pushes through to the archer lines.

I get that things like improving the hitboxes is probably very very hard to code, but this; best way of balancing archery to make it easy to learn - hard to master is to improve the hitboxes. A plate wearer should have very good protection from arrows that is not specifically designed to bring him down. It should take skilled or lucky shooting to hit the weaknesses of his armor and take him down.
Easy to learn: Being an average archer with average shooting skills, being able to kill enemies wearing low or medium armor, and staying back in the archer ranks firing volleys.
Hard to master: Having the ability to shoot and wound/kill any enemy and also being effective on your own outside the Volley zone.
would probably balance out alot, and imo it would be so freaking glorious xd
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 04:24:43 pm
Wow i read everything..... then i check back and 3 more pages just popped out. This thread blew up suddenly.

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Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Osiris on December 31, 2012, 04:28:32 pm
How to make Archery easy to learn - hard to master

If you have just recently started playing as an archer, standing in line with other archers and accomplishing a common goal seem to be something realisticly obtainable. That way, there is always a place for you to be effective for your team, you do not have to be an hardcore/top noch archer that jumps out of the way of cav while headshotting them to be effective for your team.



this :D  There are very few elite archers on eu1. Ive just started as an archer and hitting a wiggling target is maybe 1/4 chance at best :( However standing next to my team mates and all shooting at the same guy usually ends up as a dead 2h hero


one thing that makes volly fire on eu1 pretty effective is that the infantry are packed in a mob so tight you cant actually miss, your going to hit something if you fire at a mob that dense
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Angantyr on December 31, 2012, 05:22:34 pm
Formation bonus to archers as has been suggested many times would really make for a positive change, I think.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 31, 2012, 06:02:00 pm
I remember hearing talks about this in regards to strategus, just like how shielders get a shield bonus for being in formation.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Adamar on December 31, 2012, 06:08:48 pm
Idk, grouped archers where always pretty effective and the source of the most anti-ranged hatred. I think it's the individual archer that needs to be effective.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Thomek on December 31, 2012, 06:09:55 pm
infantry is the meat of the mod. If there are too many archers and cav they kill it like bloodsucking little mosquitos.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: jtobiasm on December 31, 2012, 06:18:15 pm
Why don't you put points into shield skill? That way you can still play 2h but you'll be able to pick up a shield and chase archers?
Use your brain instead of moaning on the forums. If you don't wanna use a shield, play for safe, cos as I can remember 70% of your team ran to the hill without cover.

Edit: knew you would - me cos you know I'm right.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 31, 2012, 06:24:09 pm
infantry is the meat of the mod. If there are too many archers and cav they kill it like bloodsucking little mosquitos.

Who's to say what's "too many"?  Having 1/4 of a side with archers or 1/4 with cavalry is not too much to me.  When it starts getting close to 1/3 then it's a lot to counter/over-come in a public battle server.  But that gets into an issue with team balancing classes better, not with too many people being archer or cavalry...

Also, some people just complain there's "too many" archers or cavalry without changing their tactics even slightly.  That's a problem with your play style, not with anyone else.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Macropus on December 31, 2012, 06:28:55 pm
But, there is nothing more frustrating that getting triangulated by liek 3-4 decent ranged, you cannot do shit.
You're saying like you can do something against 3-4 decent melee, lol. Come on, people, that whine became boring long time ago...
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Rumblood on December 31, 2012, 06:29:53 pm
There is an old adage that addresses this perfectly.

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You took away their ability to win more than 2% of melee fights.

You took away their ability to maneuver against cavalry in the open field.

You took away their ability to bug out of a bad strategic position.

Now when they do what you forced them into doing, which is massing as a team on an elevated position as all archers have done through history, you come to complain that they simply exist and that you can't solo your way through them.

As was always your complaint and goal, to remove the class from the game.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: pingpong on December 31, 2012, 06:42:26 pm
SOLUTION: MAKE 3/41 13 athletics STF char, kite their arrows, asshit them as they run away = PROFIT

I killed like 3 arsers that way with my STF alt DAVID_BECKHAM, but im a shite player so a pro would probably slay them all.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Penitent on December 31, 2012, 06:43:32 pm
There is an old adage that addresses this perfectly.

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You took away their ability to win more than 2% of melee fights.

You took away their ability to maneuver against cavalry in the open field.

You took away their ability to bug out of a bad strategic position.

Now when they do what you forced them into doing, which is massing as a team on an elevated position as all archers have done through history, you come to complain that they simply exist and that you can't solo your way through them.

As was always your complaint and goal, to remove the class from the game.

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I created an guide for this topic a while back.  It's on the first page of the guides section.  You can do much more than just bring a shield...even though that helps immensely.

Nerfing everything over and over won't work...it will break things.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on December 31, 2012, 06:46:50 pm
Problem is the "team balance" is just awful, if it actually balanced the teams based on what team has to much of one class we wouldn't have this problem.

Yes ranged are annoying
Yes they are hard to kill, even more so lately
Yes their are an increasing amount of them.

But if each team had a roughly even number of archers and cav then NO ONE can bitch about getting ranged or cav spammed because the teams would actually be balanced for once.


There is an old adage that addresses this perfectly.

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You took away their ability to win more than 2% of melee fights.

You took away their ability to maneuver against cavalry in the open field.

You took away their ability to bug out of a bad strategic position.

Now when they do what you forced them into doing, which is massing as a team on an elevated position as all archers have done through history, you come to complain that they simply exist and that you can't solo your way through them.

As was always your complaint and goal, to remove the class from the game.

Archers still can out maneuver cavalry even fairy riders  :?
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Kafein on December 31, 2012, 06:48:17 pm
You're saying like you can do something against 3-4 decent melee, lol. Come on, people, that whine became boring long time ago...

You can, you always can. And even when you don't make it, you have fun trying. However, getting shot at from multiple angles is not my idea of fun.

It's very simple : two infantry ganking one infantry, even if they are the three best players in the world, they will get in the way of their ally. Even if they don't, collaborating as melee takes a non-negligible amount of experience. Collaborating as ranged takes virtually zero. You won't hit other ranged allies when you shoot at the enemy because they aren't close to each other. Even better, you will get gigantic openings thanks to you teammates, projectiles giving the longest non-knockdown staggers in the mod.

If I was to do this mathematically, I would say that the power of ranged stacks grows approximately with the square of the size of stack. Infantry stacks however, are only as powerful as a logarithm of their size. Any number of inf above the 6 or so first won't be able to participate against one opponent at all, and those that participate will eat a lot of damage from the enemy and TH anyway.


There is an old adage that addresses this perfectly.

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You took away their ability to win more than 2% of melee fights.

You took away their ability to maneuver against cavalry in the open field.

You took away their ability to bug out of a bad strategic position.

Now when they do what you forced them into doing, which is massing as a team on an elevated position as all archers have done through history, you come to complain that they simply exist and that you can't solo your way through them.

As was always your complaint and goal, to remove the class from the game.

So it is the melee's fault that archers insist on being unfair opponents ?
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Laufknoten on December 31, 2012, 06:51:35 pm
Some time after the kiting or whatever archer nerf that made some archer builds unplayable, EU1 was a big circle jerk of 2h heros and polearm my old friends. I actually quitted the server because of the lack of archers...
Kinda reminded me of one of cheap_shot old comics :D
(click to show/hide)

I hate ranged overpopulation just as much as everyone else, but without them 2h heros become too powerful...
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Rumblood on December 31, 2012, 06:51:47 pm
So it is the melee's fault that archers insist on being unfair opponents ?

Welcome to a battlefield emulator. Please leave your tears and jewelry at the provided lock boxes at the door.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Angantyr on December 31, 2012, 06:55:09 pm
One thing I'm not particularly fond of is ranged one-shotting 50s+ head armor on near any distance  :? especially seeing that almost all other weapons really struggle to one-shot anyone wearing armor (even with 7-8 PS), and you have to get close to even try. It's not really fun at all to run for 1 to 2 min only to go around a corner and get insta-killed by a bolt to the face despite full hp and expensive armor. Sure I want to reward ranged for aiming for the head but perhaps helmets should offer slightly more protection than they do currently?
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Macropus on December 31, 2012, 07:01:56 pm
There is an old adage that addresses this perfectly.

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You took away their ability to win more than 2% of melee fights.

You took away their ability to maneuver against cavalry in the open field.

You took away their ability to bug out of a bad strategic position.

Now when they do what you forced them into doing, which is massing as a team on an elevated position as all archers have done through history, you come to complain that they simply exist and that you can't solo your way through them.

As was always your complaint and goal, to remove the class from the game.
Soooo Fucking True.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 31, 2012, 07:06:04 pm
Since it seems to be getting overlooked quite a bit...

TEAM BALANCE is the problem.  Not an over-abundance of a certain class.  I guarantee there's never more than 1/4 of the server as archers, but when they're ALL on the same team, it's going to feel stacked.

Balance should first go by class, and 2nd by banner.  If you can keep the classes even on both sides, then try to keep all the banners on the same team.  If all the archers are from one faction, split em up.  It's a public server. 

Guess nobody here has ever played MP games where you are allowed to pick sides and stack teams?  It's called a pub stomp, and it's not cool.  I honestly think you'd have more balanced teams than you do now, if people could freely switch sides.  There's some of us who enjoy fighting a fair battle.  Only problem is the coveted "multiplier" and nobody wants to lose it, and it's become more important than people enjoying the game.

I hope the new stuff coming out in 6 days addresses the multiplier system as well as the team balance.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: San on December 31, 2012, 07:07:09 pm
Can you do shit if you get attacked by 3-4 Cav?

Yep. Carry a fauchard sidearm. The problem is when a few of them get dehorsed while still alive.

Can you do shit if you get attacked by 3-4 other shielders?

Of course. You see this all the time. Shields slow them down, so you can backpedal/force 1on1 fights most of the time. I'd be more afraid of a group of 1hs without shield.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Pejlaen on December 31, 2012, 07:08:36 pm
infantry is the meat of the mod. If there are too many archers and cav they kill it like bloodsucking little mosquitos.

I agree, infantry is the core of the mod/battlefield and cav/archers are more of excessive elements. That's the way it should be to keep the game in harmony.
But seriously, this is the mentality of some of the players in C-rpg today;

Walks forward
Hits wall
Keeps walking forward
Wall still there
Going left or right of the wall screws 50% over of the gameplay that I love, therefore I shall not!
Still wall
Wtf, wall easymode
Nerf wall

Some willingness to adapt and make a compromise, in your build for example, seems pretty vital.
Of course it's bad that some people enjoy the mod less because of others, but seriously atleast try and be a little flexible yourself.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: marco1391 on December 31, 2012, 08:11:00 pm
i like this mod i played it nonstop for over a year now but i start to play it less and lately quiting after one round cause of 20 archers on one hill shooting youre "FUN" away

don't bother saying take a shield cause its boring as hell and even then you get shot by 20 archers kiting around you

gime cRPG back you selfish cunts :D
you play crpg just from a year ago, I can assure you ranged got just weaker with time, but there is still this bullshit "nerf archermy old friends" going on the forum
archers were completely balanced when I played this mod(I quitted about 3 months ago), there are just frustrated 2h heroes&co complaining about them
if you find using a shield boring than you have to expect to be the target of ranged

try using an archer and doing as good as the average retarded 2h hero or cav(for the records I played as cav for 80% of my crpg playtime), than come back complaining
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on December 31, 2012, 08:18:42 pm
But an archer shouldn't have a better score then a melee player. Ok maybe the archer will have a better K/D but score no. As far as I know ranged have either been really UP or really OP not balanced... Never. The reason people are frustrated because of ranged is because on EU_1 you tend to find one team has a majority if not all of the ranged, and the other team has mostly melee players with no shield and even shielder's have problems now days trying to block 4 archers all spread-out over a hill shooting from 4 different angles.

The answer is not get a shield.
The answer is not zigzag.
The answer is not go cav.

The answer is fixing the "team balance" if you could call it that right now :?
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Penitent on December 31, 2012, 08:21:16 pm
If both teams always had the same number of archers, cav, and inf...I would find it boring.

It's fun playing archers vs cav, or 2h vs shielders on some maps.  It makes it more dynamic and interesting.  You have to adapt to the makeup of the enemy team and try new tactics.

The answer is not team balance...its getting over it and using your head quite frankly. :)
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 31, 2012, 08:26:37 pm
If both teams always had the same number of archers, cav, and inf...I would find it boring.

It's fun playing archers vs cav, or 2h vs shielders on some maps.  It makes it more dynamic and interesting.  You have to adapt to the makeup of the enemy team and try new tactics.

The answer is not team balance...its getting over it and using your head quite frankly. :)

I'm not suggesting it be 100% equal at all times.  But when there's only 7 horse archers in the server, and they're all on the same team, it's quite unbalanced.   If there's only 20 archers on the server, and 15 are on one team, it's a pretty large imbalance to overcome.


If the point of a balance system is to try and make the teams relatively balanced...then balancing by the class is logically the most important variable.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on December 31, 2012, 08:33:33 pm
same, I'm not saying always equal however the fact that right now its never equal is just annoying and the main reason I don't play battle anymore. I was on EU_1 last night at around 3-4AM and even then the "balance" if we can call it that put all 6 archers that were online at that time on the same team out of a server with 24 people roughly. So 12 people per team and on one team 6 are archers against a team with 0 archers.... it was like that for over 2 hours and I can only imagine that its the same if not worse on EU_1 during the day and at "prime times"
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on December 31, 2012, 09:19:08 pm
Yeah, we got into the state where even a shield wont do much help. I still cannot believe how many FUCKERS, yes, you read it, EVERYONE WHO TOLD ME TO GET SHIELD WHEN I BITCHED ON RANGED IS A FUCKING CUNT, cause it doesnt work. I still got shot. Even when shielded. Even when facing the guy that shoots me. And if i somewhat manage to get overview on battle i have to rotate like dervish to catch all the arrows from all sides.


Fucking hell, several maps there is one or two HA/HX arriving on ONE slightly elevated spot, HS instakilling someone from the just spawned melee blob and there you go, one guy frustrated and pissed like hell cause he got shot in first 25seconds of game and now has to wait 5 minutes to be actually able to play some. (yeah, saw this being done by few different HA/HX).

There are even random HSs over WHOLE fucking map, from spawn to spawn a guy randomly shoots xbow and if he hits someone in the head, voila, yet another frustrated guy. (And yes, this is happening, just yesterday i saw on ONE map one guy from our team getting HSed in first 10-15 seconds for like 3-4 consecutive rounds, luckily different guy every round, but still, show me a melee guy who can do this without even having a slightest chance to get hit in the process).

The problem are numbers. Numbers of the ranged scum. (Love you Tenne, cause you are not scared to fight, i build my archer alt as hybrid aswell so i can melee when it comes to that)


Once more to all them people telling how impossible it is to go on 4 shielders/cav/melee and survive...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. At least i got to fight for it, not just freaking try to dodge like retard in order to reach some melee fighting. Not to speak you have to pay attention to them horses and all. We are screwed due to this being looped.

Melee still is one of the most fun aspects of this game for me, and i am really really sad that recently i cannot stay on EU1 for longer than few tens of minutes/hours before i GTX. This is pretty much the only game i still keep playing, but recently i find myself more watching series even at home, where i can play, instead of actual playing.

I am not saying i am the majority of playerbase or that i speak for them, but i believe some people feel the same and some might have even quit.


Also sorry for retarded post, i mostly do not use more than 3 tenses in english, and i usually fail to use them correctly anw.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Penitent on December 31, 2012, 09:21:28 pm
Dude, I just use a shield, and I rarely get shot.   Yes, you have to rotate if someone shoots you from the side...  :rolleyes:
No, carrying a shield does not make it so arrows never hit you...
If you have 3 or less shield skill, they can still shoot your feet and you have to lower the shield when they release their arrow to block it.

Or...You must have a bullseye on your ass. :)

Also, read my guide if a  shield isn't working for you.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on December 31, 2012, 09:28:12 pm
Dude, I just use a shield, and I rarely get shot.   Yes, you have to rotate if someone shoots you from the side...  :rolleyes:

You must have a bullseye on your ass.

Also, read my guide if a  shield isn't working for you.

How on earth is shield going to help me when there is ranged shit coming from like all directions? Not like you can get all covered in it and not get shot. And all it takes is one HA/HX and your argument is invalid. I see that with them: get a shield you might want to help, but come on, i play this for like 2 years, i sort of do know how to play, and despite this, i find shield quite useless in many ocassions (I WANT MY INVESTED POINTS BACK IT DIDNT WORKED!) :mrgreen:

5 skill btw, that should cover the leg shoot issue
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Penitent on December 31, 2012, 09:32:49 pm
Well just last night I was climbing a ladder (so I couldn't really dodge) and I had 3 archers shooting at me from the front and each side.  I was able to time them and rotate to catch every arrow they shot at me...it was actually pretty hilarious.  Then I got to the top and had my face caved in by a german poleaxe. :)

That was part skill and part luck though.  The shield will not make you immune to ranged, but it will help.

On my archer alt, I don't even shoot at shielders...its just a waste of arrows.  Even if they aren't blocking their shield can catch a good amount of arrows...its quite annoying.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on December 31, 2012, 09:34:12 pm
Well just last night I was climbing a ladder (so I couldn't really dodge) and I had 3 archers shooting at me from the front and each side.  I was able to time them and rotate to catch every arrow they shot at me...it was actually pretty hilarious.  Then I got to the top and had my face caved in by a german poleaxe. :)

That was part skill and part luck though.  The shield will not make you immune to ranged, but it will help.

On my archer alt, I don't even shoot at shielders...its just a waste of arrows.  Even if they aren't blocking their shield can catch a good amount of arrows...its quite annoying.

Good luck with that against archers that are actually timing their shots. I saw 2 byzants and one other cunt trying to shoot me yesterday, i caught first one or two arrows from each, then they all just fired at same time and i was fucked.  :mad:


Dunno how it is possible, but i never, never had so many issues with ranged as i do have now as shielder haha, i guess i just got used to get shot to pieces while polearmer/2her, but with shield i expect something more, which i cannot get  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Rumblood on December 31, 2012, 11:53:23 pm
Yeah, we got into the state where even a shield wont do much help. I still cannot believe how many FUCKERS, yes, you read it, EVERYONE WHO TOLD ME TO GET SHIELD WHEN I BITCHED ON RANGED IS A FUCKING CUNT, cause it doesnt work.

Oh really?  :arrow:

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Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on December 31, 2012, 11:54:51 pm
Oh really?  :arrow:

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If we start taking extreme agi troll builds into consideration, than there are NO balance issues, cause EVERYTHING has counter, rite? Please...
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Rumblood on January 01, 2013, 12:20:54 am

If we start taking extreme agi troll builds into consideration, than there are NO balance issues, cause EVERYTHING has counter, rite? Please...

Looks like an excellent archer hunter build to me (though I play an even better one which in turn is countered by a couple builds out there). Yes, everything does have a counter. You simply don't want to play them.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on January 01, 2013, 12:39:17 am
No point going an agi shielder when you have half the enemy team (that's been "team balanced" with most if not all of the ranged on the server) shooting you from in-front, left, right and up your arse. Also why should we be forced to change the class we like playing because the team balance sucks?  :?
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Havoco on January 01, 2013, 01:10:06 am
No
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Ujin on January 01, 2013, 02:29:36 am
Make heavy cav take much less damage from ranged, maybe than it'll be more rewarding to grab a horse with 2k+ upkeep and a heavy armor and charge 10 unprotected archers only to get your horse killed in 3-4 shots.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Goretooth on January 01, 2013, 06:01:07 am
Learn to dodge arrows.  :shock:
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on January 01, 2013, 11:55:57 am
Learn to dodge arrows.  :shock:

come show me on EU1 mister God, please
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Prpavi on January 01, 2013, 12:09:23 pm
BUFF RANGED!!!!1!
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Molly on January 01, 2013, 12:10:31 pm
Make heavy cav take much less damage from ranged archery/xbows, maybe than it'll be more rewarding to grab a horse with 2k+ upkeep and a heavy armor and charge 10 unprotected archers only to get your horse killed in 3-4 shots.
Don't put my thrower buddies and me in the same pot!
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Paul on January 01, 2013, 12:10:35 pm
infantry is the meat of the mod. If there are too many archers and cav they kill it like bloodsucking little mosquitos.

Infantry are the round decider of this mod. Along with cav, who mostly profit from ignorance of other players, they are the most powerful factor in this game. In comparison ranged is on an all time low in terms of significance towards the outcome of a round.

However we will nerf ranged further. Afaik after the end of WSE2 beta and with the installation of the WSE2 clientside endlösung, we plan to add wind(with a fixed vector per map or round) to the game that deviates the path from projectiles significantly, making aiming more skillbased.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Molly on January 01, 2013, 12:12:35 pm
Infantry are the round decider of this mod. Along with cav, who mostly profit from ignorance of other players, they are the most powerful factor in this game. In comparison ranged is on an all time low in terms of significance towards the outcome of a round.

However we will nerf ranged further. Afaik after the end of WSE2 beta and with the installation of the WSE2 clientside endlösung, we plan to add wind(with a fixed vector per map or round) to the game that deviates the path from projectiles significantly, making aiming more skillbased.
Will this affect throwers too?
We're already pretty screwed. 7PT, need easy at least 3 throwing spears to get medium armor down. Considering the randomness of throwing... pff. Show us some love!
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: the real god emperor on January 01, 2013, 12:14:36 pm

However we will nerf ranged further. Afaik after the end of WSE2 beta and with the installation of the WSE2 clientside endlösung, we plan to add wind(with a fixed vector per map or round) to the game that deviates the path from projectiles significantly, making aiming more skillbased.

I love that wind thing but dont nerf anything moar please it makes every class disgusting :(
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Prpavi on January 01, 2013, 12:14:56 pm
Infantry are the round decider of this mod. Along with cav, who mostly profit from ignorance of other players, they are the most powerful factor in this game. In comparison ranged is on an all time low in terms of significance towards the outcome of a round.

However we will nerf ranged further. Afaik after the end of WSE2 beta and with the installation of the WSE2 clientside endlösung, we plan to add wind(with a fixed vector per map or round) to the game that deviates the path from projectiles significantly, making aiming more skillbased.


You will make archery more skill based thats cool, you call it a nerf i think its long overdue, but will you buff dmg or projectile speed because of it?
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Paul on January 01, 2013, 12:16:17 pm
At least in my model I'd leave out throwers from this effect because of their high projectile weight. When not doing so, their low projectile speed would make the wind influence too big.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Prpavi on January 01, 2013, 12:16:36 pm
Will this affect throwers too?
We're already pretty screwed. 7PT, need easy at least 3 throwing spears to get medium armor down. Considering the randomness of throwing... pff. Show us some love!


LoL be quiet about throwing its OP as fuck font make em look into it they gonna nerf the shit out od it
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: the real god emperor on January 01, 2013, 12:20:58 pm
Dont nerf ranged just make them run slower! :D
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Molly on January 01, 2013, 12:53:17 pm

LoL be quiet about throwing its OP as fuck font make em look into it they gonna nerf the shit out od it
Yea, right. I invest 7 points in PT, need at least 3 hits to take down a medium guy with a high upkeep, often repairs itself, weapon.

You put 7 points in PS, grab your MW Flamberge and kill everything around with max 2 hits.

Yea, throwing is totally OP. Slow-motion projectile speed which is easily dodged, I need to get in melee range to up my chances to even hit somebody and then see a tincan walk away with all my ammo in his legs, arms and "neck". Totally OP...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Grumbs on January 01, 2013, 12:58:06 pm
Infantry are the round decider of this mod. Along with cav, who mostly profit from ignorance of other players, they are the most powerful factor in this game. In comparison ranged is on an all time low in terms of significance towards the outcome of a round.

However we will nerf ranged further. Afaik after the end of WSE2 beta and with the installation of the WSE2 clientside endlösung, we plan to add wind(with a fixed vector per map or round) to the game that deviates the path from projectiles significantly, making aiming more skillbased.

Your conclusions about round effectiveness for ranged are pretty inaccurate. I'd rather have one Bagge (or other skilled ranged guy) sometimes than a group of melee players. These guys rape at range and then when it comes down to melee can carry on kicking ass. But more skill based aiming can only be a good thing so +1

You have to consider the fun of the people playing too. Ranged is only fun for the ranged guys..melee is fun for both combatants as its an ongoing pvp fight between 2 or more players. Ranged is one sided mostly and point & click style fps mechanics. These guys can still do well when it comes to melee, especially crossbowers. Theres a guy with 150+ ping on EU1 who consistently clutches rounds as a crossbower. He'll be pewpewing all round then finish off in melee
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Grumbs on January 01, 2013, 01:14:55 pm
Yea, right. I invest 7 points in PT, need at least 3 hits to take down a medium guy with a high upkeep, often repairs itself, weapon.

You put 7 points in PS, grab your MW Flamberge and kill everything around with max 2 hits.

Yea, throwing is totally OP. Slow-motion projectile speed which is easily dodged, I need to get in melee range to up my chances to even hit somebody and then see a tincan walk away with all my ammo in his legs, arms and "neck". Totally OP...  :rolleyes:

You're comparing something like melee that you can 100% negate damage with in a pvp fight, with something like throwing which can do damage at short range (just outside melee range) with 1 or 2 hit kills that relys 100% on the throwers skill and RNG. Theres only so much you can do with dodging especially at that range, and if you get in melee range then the actual pvp starts and the thrower can pull out a 2 hander.

Melee wpf is pretty worthless after a point..100 throwing wpf (or more) isn't going to stop you have all the melee wpf you need, and 3 or 4 points in throwing isn't going to stop your build being nearly pure melee based. Most of them wear plenty of armour. Pure throwers can still do fine in melee since its player skill based and everyone can negate 100% of melee damage
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Prpavi on January 01, 2013, 01:32:18 pm
Yea, right. I invest 7 points in PT, need at least 3 hits to take down a medium guy with a high upkeep, often repairs itself, weapon.

You put 7 points in PS, grab your MW Flamberge and kill everything around with max 2 hits.

Yea, throwing is totally OP. Slow-motion projectile speed which is easily dodged, I need to get in melee range to up my chances to even hit somebody and then see a tincan walk away with all my ammo in his legs, arms and "neck". Totally OP...  :rolleyes:

dunno m8 u must be doing something wrong then, i played pure thrower 2 gens ago 21/18 build with 7PT all wpf in throwing and regular Heavy Throwing Axes and i could 2/3 hit most of the guys (except the str tincans).

I found it to be most relaxing but quite OP, risks are minimal, rewards are huge and you need no skill what so ever.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Tzar on January 01, 2013, 04:22:29 pm
I think Archery is balanced just fine as it is now. The weight increase killed most of the lame counter strike kiting shit that took place imho that was what made archery OP an terrible broken  :P.

An lol at the ones saying Throwing is OP...

I think its the amount of archers that pisses people off.. But i cant blame most people goin Archery since inf melee combat have been slowed down and nerfed so much that people find archery more fast paced an exciting..

Hell... i even went thrower just to spice things up a bit..  :P
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: slimpyman on January 01, 2013, 04:54:39 pm
dude, youre not the only one who gets shot... You should carry an xbow to counter. quit being babies.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: bagge on January 01, 2013, 04:55:11 pm
plz giev it back crpgay to poogar. he sad
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Cepeshi on January 01, 2013, 05:01:10 pm
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on January 01, 2013, 05:03:46 pm
Will this affect throwers too?
We're already pretty screwed. 7PT, need easy at least 3 throwing spears to get medium armor down. Considering the randomness of throwing... pff. Show us some love!

Try telling dood that throwing lances are useless and weak.....1 lance and he takes id say about 90% of people down who are not in tincan stuff. Plus throwing lances are fast, spammable and seem to have a small polestun still.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: _GTX_ on January 01, 2013, 05:06:19 pm
Try telling dood that throwing lances are useless and weak.....1 lance and he takes id say about 90% of people down who are not in tincan stuff. Plus throwing lances are fast, spammable and seem to have a small polestun still.

He does not have a melee weapon either, and they are probably pretty expensive. Throwing is not op.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: pingpong on January 01, 2013, 05:46:17 pm

However we will nerf ranged further. Afaik after the end of WSE2 beta and with the installation of the WSE2 clientside endlösung, we plan to add wind(with a fixed vector per map or round) to the game that deviates the path from projectiles significantly, making aiming more skillbased.
Byebye horserarsers, byebye horsexbows! Not gonna miss you!
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Rumblood on January 01, 2013, 07:08:40 pm
However we will nerf ranged further. Afaik after the end of WSE2 beta and with the installation of the WSE2 clientside endlösung, we plan to add wind(with a fixed vector per map or round) to the game that deviates the path from projectiles significantly, making aiming more skillbased.

If you truly intend to make it skill based, will you be reducing the reticule for valid high wpf builds and increasing hold time before it springs out again?

P.S. - This is only going to make the archers grouping up on EU (and now NA) even worse. You are going to force them to have to volley. Melee won't be happy and will demand more nerfs. Melee isn't asking to force more teamwork, that's not why they are mad. They are mad because they want to solo their way around a battlefield.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Grumbs on January 01, 2013, 07:31:00 pm
At least in my model I'd leave out throwers from this effect because of their high projectile weight. When not doing so, their low projectile speed would make the wind influence too big.

Presumably this is a tweak thats being implemented by one of the other devs though right?

Rumblood, all people ask for is that ranged is less than point & click. Its too shallow for a game with all the other stuff going on with other classes. Hopefully this tweak will mean people have to judge distance a bit more, if it makes the shot veer off more depending on how far away you shoot. Sounds like it might make ranged more interesting to play

I want to be shot by ranged and think "damn, nice shot!". Most of the time its easy one sided point & click against slow targets, or random headshots
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: IG_Saint on January 01, 2013, 07:53:13 pm
Try telling dood that throwing lances are useless and weak.....1 lance and he takes id say about 90% of people down who are not in tincan stuff. Plus throwing lances are fast, spammable and seem to have a small polestun still.

Lances are also so innaccurate that I've missed afk people from a meter away. Actually hitting anything with them is just as much luck as good aim and I only get 4 of them. On the melee side of things, MW throwing lances do a couple of points more damage than a MW shortened spear and are otherwise identical, hardly overpowered. You and saxon mentioned that polestun thing yesterday, I'm still not sure what you mean by that, do you mean the time it takes to recover after being hit? Cause I highly doubt there's any difference in that between the throwing lances and any other blunt polearm. It's just the speed that lets me use it properly, the same way a staff or a shortened spear can.

And lastly: If throwing lances are so OP, find me one other player that can do the stuff I do with 'em, especially in melee.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on January 01, 2013, 07:57:38 pm
I'm not saying throwing is OP hell if anything its a tiny bit UP all I'm saying is throwing right now is ok.....ish not overly strong but not overly weak. And with the polestun I mean when you side swing my guy stumbles back barely a yard and I'm unable to block and have to wait/hope you miss the next attack or back up.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Rumblood on January 01, 2013, 08:19:16 pm
I want to be shot by ranged and think "damn, nice shot!". Most of the time its easy one sided point & click against slow targets, or random headshots

And you will be lying to yourself. Cone of Fire = randomness. CoF + wind does not = nice shot. It equals nice random hit pointed in my general direction.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Adamar on January 01, 2013, 08:32:07 pm
Rumblood, all people ask for is that ranged is less than point & click. Its too shallow for a game with all the other stuff going on with other classes.

If you try out archery you'll notice that it's actually click, point & release, with extreme concentration taking into account reticule size, reticule timing, arrow drop, nº of arrows, enemy movement, and still keeping an eye at what's going on around you.
That kind of talk is shallow indeed.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Jeade on January 01, 2013, 10:38:59 pm
I'm glad the devs are trying to do things to make the game more challenging and fresh, but adding wind to nerf ranged is a really fucking retarded approach.
Ranged is fine as it is. The vast majority of archers really are not devastating.
I've played archery with a ton of builds as a main for two years, and the only way I can attain enough accuracy to hit a target at a medium distance even 75% of the time is by allocating ALL wpf into archery and using something like a tatar bow.
A number of archers have started using the Bow, and they're sacrificing a massive chunk of damage for that increased accuracy. That should indicate archery is already totally fine where it is when people are trying to balance out their builds to their most effective play-style-
You can sacrifice damage for accuracy, accuracy for damage, or take a very balanced, medium damage and accuracy build.
If anything, increase accuracy significantly and then implement wind.

Edit: Or like others suggested, increase projectile speed as well. I can throw arrows faster and harder than I can shoot them, yet I'm required to use a bow anyway. Kinda gimp.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Warborn304 on January 01, 2013, 10:44:52 pm
If you try out archery you'll notice that it's actually click, point & release, with extreme concentration taking into account reticule size, reticule timing, arrow drop, nº of arrows, enemy movement, and still keeping an eye at what's going on around you.
That kind of talk is shallow indeed.

Yes, I really don't think that adding wind will make it more skill based at all. It would definitely make it luck based. The best possible scenario is that the wind ONLY affects the cone of fire and even then if you are "accurate" the wind will deviate said shot, thus more than likely making you miss.

Imagine what that is going to do to horse archery... I realize that every one hates HA, but it needs to be viable. This would practically destroy an entire class, even more than what it is now. As of how HA stands I feel like the only thing HA's can do is try to assist in killing horses for lancers to pick up the kill.  Anything else and I'm not accurate enough or I wouldn't have enough damage.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Belatu on January 02, 2013, 12:03:45 am
wind for archery with a wind direction and strenght indicator (like for golf games) could be very funny for me and I support that :idea:

Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Grumbs on January 02, 2013, 12:16:29 am
I'm glad the devs are trying to do things to make the game more challenging and fresh, but adding wind to nerf ranged is a really fucking retarded approach.
Ranged is fine as it is. The vast majority of archers really are not devastating.
I've played archery with a ton of builds as a main for two years, and the only way I can attain enough accuracy to hit a target at a medium distance even 75% of the time is by allocating ALL wpf into archery and using something like a tatar bow.
A number of archers have started using the Bow, and they're sacrificing a massive chunk of damage for that increased accuracy. That should indicate archery is already totally fine where it is when people are trying to balance out their builds to their most effective play-style-
You can sacrifice damage for accuracy, accuracy for damage, or take a very balanced, medium damage and accuracy build.
If anything, increase accuracy significantly and then implement wind.

Edit: Or like others suggested, increase projectile speed as well. I can throw arrows faster and harder than I can shoot them, yet I'm required to use a bow anyway. Kinda gimp.

The difficulty of the inputs required from the player is independent from the RNG in the shot. I'd support a shit ton of extra accuracy in terms of eliminating RNG IF there was depth to the actual shooting mechanics. So make archery more accurate sure, just make it so theres a ton of player skill involved in landing shots + if it wasn't so spammable and with random headshots
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Goretooth on January 02, 2013, 05:16:54 am
come show me on EU1 mister God, please
God plays on NA1.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Macropus on January 02, 2013, 11:06:18 am
However we will nerf ranged further. Afaik after the end of WSE2 beta and with the installation of the WSE2 clientside endlösung, we plan to add wind(with a fixed vector per map or round) to the game that deviates the path from projectiles significantly, making aiming more skillbased.
You'll need to increace archery accuracy (especially for HA) to make it really skill based, not random shooting with that wind.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Molly on January 02, 2013, 11:10:55 am
You'll need to increace archery accuracy (especially for HA) to make it really skill based, not random shooting with that wind.
...and he is a shielder himself. Just saying  :wink:
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Hugo_Stiglitz on January 03, 2013, 10:32:25 pm
adding wind to nerf ranged is a really fucking retarded approach.
Ranged is fine as it is. The vast majority of archers really are not devastating.
A number of archers have started using the Bow, and they're sacrificing a massive chunk of damage for that increased accuracy. That should indicate archery is already totally fine where it is when people are trying to balance out their builds to their most effective play-style-
You can sacrifice damage for accuracy, accuracy for damage, or take a very balanced, medium damage and accuracy build.
If anything, increase accuracy significantly and then implement wind.

Wind sounds fine IF it is ineffective indoors/in courtyards, and within short distances (20 yards or so)

The problem with archery now is the weight of the arrows.
My archer has a total armor weight of 2.
My bow weighs 2.3.
My 3 stacks of bodkins add up to 21.
With my 8 ath I cant even outrun someone with 4-6 ath that is heavily armored.

The damage is fine. An archer with enough skill can land 3-5 shots into each target. With loomed arrows and a bow, they can make work of anybody.
But I will not stand to waste my time as an archer that is incapable of keeping distance from plated 2hers, with each quiver weighing as much as the head of a great maul.

Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Zanze on January 03, 2013, 10:44:18 pm
i like this mod i played it nonstop for over a year now but i start to play it less and lately quiting after one round cause of 20 archers on one hill shooting youre "FUN" away

don't bother saying take a shield cause its boring as hell and even then you get shot by 20 archers kiting around you

gime cRPG back you selfish cunts :D

Taking a shield and holding it in front of you to stop arrows is boring? So not having one and getting hit by arrows is fun by that logic.

You can just do what a few smart NA players do and bring the shield, use it to close the distance, then take out their melee weapon. Also, if there are 20 archers surrounding you, that is your own fault for choosing a terrible place to fight and position yourself.

Also, didn't read the thread.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Prpavi on January 04, 2013, 11:20:37 am
the amount of ranged spam at this moment on EU 1 is unbearable.

Theres less than 50ppl but the amout of archers/xbows is sick.


This is the fact that bothers me the most, not even the 100 pierce dmg from arba or insane dmg death by loom archers, its the sheer amount of it, always been.

And yes, i do have a shield, doesnt help if they are all around you.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Moncho on January 04, 2013, 11:25:31 am
oh, it is this thread again.
Please refer to the left
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Templar_Ratigan on January 04, 2013, 12:32:56 pm
the amount of ranged spam at this moment on EU 1 is unbearable.

Theres less than 50ppl but the amout of archers/xbows is sick.


This is the fact that bothers me the most, not even the 100 pierce dmg from arba or insane dmg death by loom archers, its the sheer amount of it, always been.

And yes, i do have a shield, doesnt help if they are all around you.

Actually ive just come from Eu 1 and the majority of the players I saw and yes while you were there, were melee 2 handers. Followed by a few polearms and a lot of cav.

Also as I recall you were trying out a hoplite and complaining how shit it was, so you put your shield on your back and used the war spear on its own.

The amusing thing about this game is that one or two archers shooting at you can feel like 6-7 of them.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Zaar on January 04, 2013, 12:40:22 pm
Actually ive just come from Eu 1 and the majority of the players I saw and yes while you were there, were melee 2 handers. Followed by a few polearms and a lot of cav.

Also as I recall you were trying out a hoplite and complaining how shit it was, so you put your shield on your back and used the war spear on its own.

The amusing thing about this game is that one or two archers shooting at you can feel like 6-7 of them.

I havent played today...but for example yesterday late evening it was something like 45 vs 45. I counted archers on my team (on foot and on horse, basically everyone that shot or threw something). There were 15. 1/3 of a team.

If we presume the other team has a similar amount...that's 30/90 players.

Imagine 15 things flying every few seconds your way  :shock: :mrgreen:

That said, I still think lack of teamwork is the key and I'm sure those who play(ed) clan/strat/organised battles will agree.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Prpavi on January 04, 2013, 12:44:52 pm
Actually ive just come from Eu 1 and the majority of the players I saw and yes while you were there, were melee 2 handers. Followed by a few polearms and a lot of cav.

Also as I recall you were trying out a hoplite and complaining how shit it was, so you put your shield on your back and used the war spear on its own.

The amusing thing about this game is that one or two archers shooting at you can feel like 6-7 of them.

YES I HATE HOPLITE!!! It's Dados fault!

And i RQ and reconnected bit later, the ranged fest was going on until the Ruskies went to school, i got shot left right and center.

Still a rangedfest, you may look at it differently but to me 6/7 arcehrs on one side coupled by several srossbownem shooting from all sides on 50- server is a rangedfest. you just cant hide.

I put my shiled down when faced with several enemies or a facehugging shielder ( i mostly lose)
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Doppel on January 04, 2013, 12:45:14 pm
A battlefield2-like commander mode would be nice. There should also be a 30-60sec warm up time before a battle starts to form formations and so on.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Shpritza on January 04, 2013, 01:02:04 pm
(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)


 :wink:
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Prpavi on January 04, 2013, 01:08:36 pm
(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)


 :wink:

Siege is only fun for like half an hour and full of nabs...
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Shpritza on January 04, 2013, 01:09:51 pm
Siege is only fun for like half an hour and full of nabs...

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: highglandeur on January 04, 2013, 01:13:55 pm
Learn to kite nubs! All this lobbying is disgusting! You people deserve to be called wimpy ass fa gg ots  by a french!
Don't you understand this is counter productive? You make archers victims every patch and their numbers grow.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on January 04, 2013, 01:18:12 pm
@prpavi
i was on battle insta first one on scoreboard and 18 1 after 3 rounds (fought last round 1 vs to many and killed 6(?))
dont tell me siege is the noob mode
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Falka on January 04, 2013, 01:57:31 pm
@prpavi
i was on battle insta first one on scoreboard and 18 1 after 3 rounds (fought last round 1 vs to many and killed 6(?))
dont tell me siege is the noob mode
Quack you! You are noob, that's why u play siege! Knitlery is noob too! You would't kill lvl 1 peasant in rags who joined cRPG yesterday you filthy noob! Only battle is full of pr0s! 1111!  :mrgreen:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 04, 2013, 02:14:27 pm
Almost every one of you are whining about archers. Yea, we are annoying as hell but also decrease a bit amount of cav.
Haven't you noticed that some archers are killing plenty of horses or cav? Or even one of worst curse of c-rpg IMO- Horse Crossbow.

Archers can't kite any more and it's good, shielders can preety easy catch an archer. Belive me, it's not funny when you have to figth against shielder or 2h hero with a 0 slot weapon like habd axe, pickaxe or hammer...

Most of roofs are unreachable, and ones does, they are easily accesible for every one, even cav what is bullshit for me.

Archers became really skilled because of you, c-rpg whiners. You force a nerf for archers, we get accostumed to it and find out other ways to be deadly or annoying.

Haters gonna hate, and archers gonna shoot them anyway :D
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Mengil on January 04, 2013, 02:23:40 pm
Add more cav friendly maps and the archers will be dealt with :)
As it now almost every map is a hilly village map, no wonder archers are doing good when they have a free shooting range below.
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 04, 2013, 02:27:16 pm
Add more cav friendly maps and the archers will be dealt with :)
As it now almost every map is a hilly village map, no wonder archers are doing good when they have a free shooting range below.

But then cav will dominate instead. I think its fine as it is now, sometimes there can be a bit too many archers on one team but not too often, and usually i notice this because my team is lacking infantry, not because im getting shot a lot..
Title: Re: Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 04, 2013, 02:33:20 pm
For me there could be more open and flat maps where i can shoot in full range. Killing unaware cav on long distance is really funny for me :mrgreen:

Random hills are just silly and many times teams are camping until flags appear what is really boring  :|