Ranged gime cRPG back plz :/

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

Problem is the "team balance" is just awful, if it actually balanced the teams based on what team has to much of one class we wouldn't have this problem.

Yes ranged are annoying
Yes they are hard to kill, even more so lately
Yes their are an increasing amount of them.

But if each team had a roughly even number of archers and cav then NO ONE can bitch about getting ranged or cav spammed because the teams would actually be balanced for once.

There is an old adage that addresses this perfectly.

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You took away their ability to win more than 2% of melee fights.

You took away their ability to maneuver against cavalry in the open field.

You took away their ability to bug out of a bad strategic position.

Now when they do what you forced them into doing, which is massing as a team on an elevated position as all archers have done through history, you come to complain that they simply exist and that you can't solo your way through them.

As was always your complaint and goal, to remove the class from the game.

Archers still can out maneuver cavalry even fairy riders 

[Kafein]

You're saying like you can do something against 3-4 decent melee, lol. Come on, people, that whine became boring long time ago...

You can, you always can. And even when you don't make it, you have fun trying. However, getting shot at from multiple angles is not my idea of fun.

It's very simple : two infantry ganking one infantry, even if they are the three best players in the world, they will get in the way of their ally. Even if they don't, collaborating as melee takes a non-negligible amount of experience. Collaborating as ranged takes virtually zero. You won't hit other ranged allies when you shoot at the enemy because they aren't close to each other. Even better, you will get gigantic openings thanks to you teammates, projectiles giving the longest non-knockdown staggers in the mod.

If I was to do this mathematically, I would say that the power of ranged stacks grows approximately with the square of the size of stack. Infantry stacks however, are only as powerful as a logarithm of their size. Any number of inf above the 6 or so first won't be able to participate against one opponent at all, and those that participate will eat a lot of damage from the enemy and TH anyway.

There is an old adage that addresses this perfectly.

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You took away their ability to win more than 2% of melee fights.

You took away their ability to maneuver against cavalry in the open field.

You took away their ability to bug out of a bad strategic position.

Now when they do what you forced them into doing, which is massing as a team on an elevated position as all archers have done through history, you come to complain that they simply exist and that you can't solo your way through them.

As was always your complaint and goal, to remove the class from the game.

So it is the melee's fault that archers insist on being unfair opponents ?

[Laufknoten]

Some time after the kiting or whatever archer nerf that made some archer builds unplayable, EU1 was a big circle jerk of 2h heros and polearm my old friends. I actually quitted the server because of the lack of archers...
Kinda reminded me of one of cheap_shot old comics

(click to show/hide)

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I hate ranged overpopulation just as much as everyone else, but without them 2h heros become too powerful...

[Rumblood]

So it is the melee's fault that archers insist on being unfair opponents ?

Welcome to a battlefield emulator. Please leave your tears and jewelry at the provided lock boxes at the door.

[Angantyr]

One thing I'm not particularly fond of is ranged one-shotting 50s+ head armor on near any distance  especially seeing that almost all other weapons really struggle to one-shot anyone wearing armor (even with 7-8 PS), and you have to get close to even try. It's not really fun at all to run for 1 to 2 min only to go around a corner and get insta-killed by a bolt to the face despite full hp and expensive armor. Sure I want to reward ranged for aiming for the head but perhaps helmets should offer slightly more protection than they do currently?

[Macropus]

There is an old adage that addresses this perfectly.

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You took away their ability to win more than 2% of melee fights.

You took away their ability to maneuver against cavalry in the open field.

You took away their ability to bug out of a bad strategic position.

Now when they do what you forced them into doing, which is massing as a team on an elevated position as all archers have done through history, you come to complain that they simply exist and that you can't solo your way through them.

As was always your complaint and goal, to remove the class from the game.

Soooo Fucking True.

[CrazyCracka420]

Since it seems to be getting overlooked quite a bit...

TEAM BALANCE is the problem.  Not an over-abundance of a certain class.  I guarantee there's never more than 1/4 of the server as archers, but when they're ALL on the same team, it's going to feel stacked.

Balance should first go by class, and 2nd by banner.  If you can keep the classes even on both sides, then try to keep all the banners on the same team.  If all the archers are from one faction, split em up.  It's a public server. 

Guess nobody here has ever played MP games where you are allowed to pick sides and stack teams?  It's called a pub stomp, and it's not cool.  I honestly think you'd have more balanced teams than you do now, if people could freely switch sides.  There's some of us who enjoy fighting a fair battle.  Only problem is the coveted "multiplier" and nobody wants to lose it, and it's become more important than people enjoying the game.

I hope the new stuff coming out in 6 days addresses the multiplier system as well as the team balance.

[San]

Can you do shit if you get attacked by 3-4 Cav?

Yep. Carry a fauchard sidearm. The problem is when a few of them get dehorsed while still alive.

Can you do shit if you get attacked by 3-4 other shielders?

Of course. You see this all the time. Shields slow them down, so you can backpedal/force 1on1 fights most of the time. I'd be more afraid of a group of 1hs without shield.

[Pejlaen]

infantry is the meat of the mod. If there are too many archers and cav they kill it like bloodsucking little mosquitos.

I agree, infantry is the core of the mod/battlefield and cav/archers are more of excessive elements. That's the way it should be to keep the game in harmony.
But seriously, this is the mentality of some of the players in C-rpg today;

Walks forward
Hits wall
Keeps walking forward
Wall still there
Going left or right of the wall screws 50% over of the gameplay that I love, therefore I shall not!
Still wall
Wtf, wall easymode
Nerf wall

Some willingness to adapt and make a compromise, in your build for example, seems pretty vital.
Of course it's bad that some people enjoy the mod less because of others, but seriously atleast try and be a little flexible yourself.

[marco1391]

i like this mod i played it nonstop for over a year now but i start to play it less and lately quiting after one round cause of 20 archers on one hill shooting youre "FUN" away

don't bother saying take a shield cause its boring as hell and even then you get shot by 20 archers kiting around you

gime cRPG back you selfish cunts

you play crpg just from a year ago, I can assure you ranged got just weaker with time, but there is still this bullshit "nerf archermy old friends" going on the forum
archers were completely balanced when I played this mod(I quitted about 3 months ago), there are just frustrated 2h heroes&co complaining about them
if you find using a shield boring than you have to expect to be the target of ranged

try using an archer and doing as good as the average retarded 2h hero or cav(for the records I played as cav for 80% of my crpg playtime), than come back complaining

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

But an archer shouldn't have a better score then a melee player. Ok maybe the archer will have a better K/D but score no. As far as I know ranged have either been really UP or really OP not balanced... Never. The reason people are frustrated because of ranged is because on EU_1 you tend to find one team has a majority if not all of the ranged, and the other team has mostly melee players with no shield and even shielder's have problems now days trying to block 4 archers all spread-out over a hill shooting from 4 different angles.

The answer is not get a shield.
The answer is not zigzag.
The answer is not go cav.

The answer is fixing the "team balance" if you could call it that right now

[Penitent]

If both teams always had the same number of archers, cav, and inf...I would find it boring.

It's fun playing archers vs cav, or 2h vs shielders on some maps.  It makes it more dynamic and interesting.  You have to adapt to the makeup of the enemy team and try new tactics.

The answer is not team balance...its getting over it and using your head quite frankly.

[CrazyCracka420]

If both teams always had the same number of archers, cav, and inf...I would find it boring.

It's fun playing archers vs cav, or 2h vs shielders on some maps.  It makes it more dynamic and interesting.  You have to adapt to the makeup of the enemy team and try new tactics.

The answer is not team balance...its getting over it and using your head quite frankly.

I'm not suggesting it be 100% equal at all times.  But when there's only 7 horse archers in the server, and they're all on the same team, it's quite unbalanced.   If there's only 20 archers on the server, and 15 are on one team, it's a pretty large imbalance to overcome.


If the point of a balance system is to try and make the teams relatively balanced...then balancing by the class is logically the most important variable.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

same, I'm not saying always equal however the fact that right now its never equal is just annoying and the main reason I don't play battle anymore. I was on EU_1 last night at around 3-4AM and even then the "balance" if we can call it that put all 6 archers that were online at that time on the same team out of a server with 24 people roughly. So 12 people per team and on one team 6 are archers against a team with 0 archers.... it was like that for over 2 hours and I can only imagine that its the same if not worse on EU_1 during the day and at "prime times"

[Cepeshi]

Yeah, we got into the state where even a shield wont do much help. I still cannot believe how many FUCKERS, yes, you read it, EVERYONE WHO TOLD ME TO GET SHIELD WHEN I BITCHED ON RANGED IS A FUCKING CUNT, cause it doesnt work. I still got shot. Even when shielded. Even when facing the guy that shoots me. And if i somewhat manage to get overview on battle i have to rotate like dervish to catch all the arrows from all sides.


Fucking hell, several maps there is one or two HA/HX arriving on ONE slightly elevated spot, HS instakilling someone from the just spawned melee blob and there you go, one guy frustrated and pissed like hell cause he got shot in first 25seconds of game and now has to wait 5 minutes to be actually able to play some. (yeah, saw this being done by few different HA/HX).

There are even random HSs over WHOLE fucking map, from spawn to spawn a guy randomly shoots xbow and if he hits someone in the head, voila, yet another frustrated guy. (And yes, this is happening, just yesterday i saw on ONE map one guy from our team getting HSed in first 10-15 seconds for like 3-4 consecutive rounds, luckily different guy every round, but still, show me a melee guy who can do this without even having a slightest chance to get hit in the process).

The problem are numbers. Numbers of the ranged scum. (Love you Tenne, cause you are not scared to fight, i build my archer alt as hybrid aswell so i can melee when it comes to that)


Once more to all them people telling how impossible it is to go on 4 shielders/cav/melee and survive...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. At least i got to fight for it, not just freaking try to dodge like retard in order to reach some melee fighting. Not to speak you have to pay attention to them horses and all. We are screwed due to this being looped.

Melee still is one of the most fun aspects of this game for me, and i am really really sad that recently i cannot stay on EU1 for longer than few tens of minutes/hours before i GTX. This is pretty much the only game i still keep playing, but recently i find myself more watching series even at home, where i can play, instead of actual playing.

I am not saying i am the majority of playerbase or that i speak for them, but i believe some people feel the same and some might have even quit.


Also sorry for retarded post, i mostly do not use more than 3 tenses in english, and i usually fail to use them correctly anw.