ya, overhead nerf is what pisses me off and takes away again quit some freedom and possibilities
I wouldn't have to post anymore if you posted more Torben :D
M&B is such an amazing game
CRPG was fucking amazing when i started it, i had a lot of fun because i could play how i want and wasnt forced to use range, i was using an elegant poleaxe with 98 speed, i could duel with it and would rape every shielder in battle... sure it wasnt the best for duel, but god damn was it fun in battle...
it had the same melee combat as native, animations werent clunky, bouncing was way way way less "dominating" (less goretooth like herp derp rely on bounce to get kills) and yes there was a couple of player who sucked ass and were still in the top 3 of every map (beatrix, kesh, etc), but atleast i wasnt afraid of fighting them because i could flawless them without being afraid of my trust bouncing due to fucking retarded animations and screen turning speed, you could kill every bads in second because the game actually promoted single player skill and you could feint/abuse twitchy animations combo to make bads spin their screen around to not see anything.
now my fucking poleaxe has 92 speed, the mod is clunky as fuck and overhead (my favorite swing) is barely usable unless you do no twitch at all (so killing a bad now takes 5 years) and you just get zerged down because nobody kills nobody otherwise because mod is clunky, everybody stacks str and armor looms, mod is slow as hell and animations are just plain fucking retarded compared to native.
now that melee is boring and doesnt get the job done to kill people fast enough to not get zerged, cav numbers are increased, which makes playing melee even more frustrating so those who find cav boring go archers, because they dont want to quit such a great game where you have so many good memories, but little do they know is those memories are long gone, just like player skill in battle.
only legit post ive ever done on these forums, yall bads anyway, nobody ever duels on native, gotta crutch on this slowness/clunkyness/levels/armor some more jellybean.
This thread is pointless. It absolutely doesn't matter because cmp will come in here and say "combat seems fine to me, no hitbox issues here i know because i play"...and CMP will be correct...
.... just like he did in the original turnspeed nerf thread.
I'm really dissapointed by the turn nerf, but im not sure if there was another possibility for the dev to nerf the lolstab without acting on the turn speed.Well, like I've said many times in the past, I would agree with a replacement of the stab of the greatswords with that of polearms (and I am and will always be a two-hander).
The main problem of that nerf is that it is almost impossible to fight a gank squad when you are heavily surrounded, old turning speed was very rewarding for people who had very good reflex.Yes, it has had a dramatic effect in this area; if people are fast and proficient enough to fight off large groups by themselves why shouldn't they be allowed to, or at least why should they be severely handicapped while doing so, successes like these are a major quality of the game to many players.
This. Very skilled melee´s (be it polearm, 1h or 2h) were able to win situations of 4 vs 1 or 5 vs. 1 or sometimes even 7 or 8 vs. 1 (seen all of this). Right now that simply is not possible, even if you have the skill and reflexes.this isnt cus of the turn nerf, first days with turn nerf allowed alot of 1vX footwork that was lost cus of the soak changes.
The turn rate nerf fucked up hard 1h overhead and 1h stab (which was already fucked up anyway) and i still see poeple doing helicopter with long spear and very long weapon. So i'm pretty disappointed by this nerf which killed 1h overhead more than nerfing long spear imo :(
The new 1h stab is WAY better than the old stab. With the new one, you can land a stab at really close range which is good for short weapons like 1-handers. It makes it terribly easy to land 2 hits on someone in quick succession.I definitely agree that landing a 1h stab (without glancing) is way easier now. Made a lot of double and triple hits with surprise stabs. But what I noticed a lot after the change is that these stabs aren't very damaging... Mainly using a Military Hammer right now, so I'm not stabbing a lot (as mentioned earlier, I love me some overheads :D), but when I take my italian/Long Arming/Long Espada, I feel like they do less damage then before... Having to stab people 5+ times for the most part. Fewer glances, but less overall damage :)
The new overhead does take more skill than the old one, but it's still easy to consistently land overheads. You just need to compensate more with your movement keys instead of your mouse.
Honestly if the people in this thread spent their time learning the new overhead and stab instead of complaining about it, they would be able to do it perfectly by now.
Whenever I get frustrated because I can't turn my character as fast as I want to, I play some NW. After seeing all the dolphin jumps all over the place, cRPG starts looking way better again.This. People expect overheads less now = better for people that can land them. :)
I also like how overheads are harder to do now. I still do them and have it easy enough to hit with them, but now people don't expect them so they more often mess up the block. Me like!
Well the most fucked here because of this I believe is 1h, then stab/overhead only polearms, then 2h. Overhead on all weapons became pretty much useless with this.Lies and slander!
unnerf
This. People expect overheads less now = better for people that can land them. :)Oh yeah, forgot that! So badass that we can dodge sideways now, and not just gay-ass jump in and out of range. Sidestep FTW!
Also, being able to dodge past most maulers is awesome!
Turn speed is ok. I like it.Real shielder or left swing scimmy spammer?
Shielder.
Real shielder or left swing scimmy spammer?Neither of those.
Imo keep the changes for weapons over 200 length and weapons with crushthrough. Revert everything else.Since 2h greatswords got like 200 reach with the animation...
Stab noobs like me like this change, and I can stab reliably with 1h now.I can't, its friggin crap and unreliable.
The new 1h stab is WAY better than the old stab. With the new one, you can land a stab at really close range which is good for short weapons like 1-handers. It makes it terribly easy to land 2 hits on someone in quick succession.
The new overhead does take more skill than the old one, but it's still easy to consistently land overheads. You just need to compensate more with your movement keys instead of your mouse.
Honestly if the people in this thread spent their time learning the new overhead and stab instead of complaining about it, they would be able to do it perfectly by now.
(are you a shielder or a 1h without shield?)and if you do get hit its barely gonna hurt so who cares :rolleyes:
Well, i don't share your view about the stab, my stabs were more efficient before the nerf. But i guess i didn't adapt myself well according to poeple who think stabs is better now.
About the overhead, which where i'm a bit more proficient than stabing, i definitly don't understand how you can like it as it is now. It is so easy to avoid it for another melee nowadays. Due to its speed and the small length (i think) you don't have time to follow the guy you're fighting with (llike you can do for 2h and pole) and he can easily avoid it in turning around you and then spam. (i mean going right or left as soon as he see the one hander using overhead and spam instead of blocking).
I'm a polearm now (using a poleaxe) and each time i'm fighting against a shielder, i go left/right while spamming as soon as i see him using overhead cause his sword can't follow so miss me 90% of the time.
ya, overhead nerf is what pisses me off and takes away again quit some freedom and possibilities, awwwe booooohooooo i cant like a jerkoff having aseizure
What I don't like about it is the ghost overheads.
Check out this gif I made, teamkilling a guy to my left but clearly missing him on my screen. Had this happen more than once.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
overhead nerf completely changes the way i have to fight with a 1h/shield, spinning overheads are just a huge no-no now ... the only way i ever attempt them is part of rhythmic face-face fighting, and they rarely EVER result in a hit (the slowest, most obvious attack) ...
using them as a target-switch attack is just suicide, it will never hit, ever, since the change.
Now, without exaggerating, the smart thing to do with 4 directional attack is :
- 70% swing left or right: mostly dependent of opponent position, type of weapon (some have a better right, some a better left) and for chambering purposes;
- 20% stab : to initiate an attack or to try and pull a face-stab glance combo, or even a lolstab, because it still works at some degree;
- 10% overhead : when you feel lucky or want to add some variety to the fight :rolleyes: even if the rarity of this attack influences the fact that it is somewhat harder to block and that it still powns in a duel when you can turn around an opponent or use it in some godly combo
I'm really dissapointed by the turn nerf, but im not sure if there was another possibility for the dev to nerf the lolstab without acting on the turn speed.
The main problem of that nerf is that it is almost impossible to fight a gank squad when you are heavily surrounded, old turning speed was very rewarding for people who had very good reflex.
"Ghost overhead" (the gif above) doesn't exist anymore, unless you're playing on an outdated server or with an outdated client or with heavy lag.
It SHOULD be impossible to fight a gank squad for Chis' sake! This game should not be Rambo or Heroes of Might and Magic like some would like.
the old turn speed permitted extremely good players with excellent block reflex, positioning, and general awareness (all these things are uber hard to master) to shine in very dangerous situations.
Good players will always adapt to changes, no matter how "extreme" they are.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
I still do top the score board from time to time (or at least always have a quite good score/ kD) with my pure hoplite, my pure 1h/shield, my pure 2h and my pure polearm-footman. Fighting just isn´t the same like before and it´s definitely less fun.
It SHOULD be impossible to fight a gank squad for Chis' sake! This game should not be Rambo or Heroes of Might and Magic like some would like.
The votes say "CHANGE IT BACK TO NORMAL!"
But the devs have reacted to whining before, unfortunately, if you keep it up, you might get the old turn speed back.
Keep the stab turn speed nerf, change overheads back to normal. Id imagine thats what most people who chose #3 want anyway. Honestly dont understand what the point of nerfing overheads was. I have never seen anyone complain about overheads being OP, it was already the worst of all 4 attack directions, its nearly useless now. Before the nerf it was already risky to do an overhead against someone who knew what they were doing, now all you have to do is slightly step to their left or right and laugh as they bounce off the ground.
It's the opposite, the old turn speed allowed players with bad aim to make their missed hits successful. Now there's an actual difference between people who aim and maneuver properly and those who dont. Constant whining about this issue says a lot about the adaptability of certain players and classes who are not used to having their fighting mechanics messed with.
But the devs have reacted to whining before, unfortunately, if you keep it up, you might get the old turn speed back.
Of course this is just my opinion, nothing wrong here or?You claim it's "definitely less fun". I find it more fun now that I can dodge enemy stabs/overheads, making it easier for me to dance through enemies.
You claim it's "definitely less fun". I find it more fun now that I can dodge enemy stabs/overheads, making it easier for me to dance through enemies.
And the long spear/pikes jump turning and stabbing and being able to be used as very effective 1v1 weapons.
Good players will always adapt to changes, no matter how "extreme" they are.
I still do top the score board from time to time (or at least always have a quite good score/ kD) with my pure hoplite, my pure 1h/shield, my pure 2h and my pure polearm-footman. Fighting just isn´t the same like before and it´s definitely less fun.
ehm, it used to be quite effective 1vs1 with the old turn speed, Iabused it for a long time, best I remember was around 6 guys vs. me and I killed them all with my long spear. That definitely had to go, no doubt about that, but it was a special long spear concerning problem.
With 1 attacking direction, low speed and low base damage, you can't in any way call it a very effective 1v1 weapon. It works if your enemies are complete noobs or you make moves they don't anticipate.I'd rather have my khyber knife in a duel than a pike.
Anyway, he called them very effective 1v1 weapons. Compare pike/long spear to every other melee weapon in the game, and they're both one of the worst. Even though one can make them work up close by skilled play, that doesn't mean they're very effective. :wink:
With 1 attacking direction, low speed and low base damage, you can't in any way call it a very effective 1v1 weapon. It works if your enemies are complete noobs or you make moves they don't anticipate.
Anyway, he called them very effective 1v1 weapons. Compare pike/long spear to every other melee weapon in the game, and they're both one of the worst. Even though one can make them work up close by skilled play, that doesn't mean they're very effective. :wink:
Still a nerf even for skilled players... With old turn speed overheads you could react to spaztic movements or high agi facehuggers and still land a shot, and also you could initiate early while calculating timing so that the contact intercept predicted enemy movements. Now you gotta wait and line up target first before letting it go, this extra time you are holding is nerf time.
I dunno why you would defend it, I'm pretty sure cmp didn't even intend to nerf overhead on 1h, cuz it was by no means an OP or physics breaking attack. The goal was a 2h nerf for people who were intentionally sweeping around 2h (especially mauls) to kill people with its long/slow toe drag. The unintended consequences was it hurt short 1h even more, so you are basically just defending a mistake.
You need to aim better before you even start the attack, then release the same second. There's no time loss if you do it right.Amen. Whiners gonna whine. Game makes way more sense now.
And the nerf wasn't a mistake, I think it needs to be reworked according to weight, perhaps then 1 handed weapons and crapier 2handers become more attractive, but the overall idea was good.
This reminds me of the native kicking nerf, there was so much round house kicking before, that it looked retarded. Some veterans whined about that nerf, simply because they had to readapt to the game. It's the same thing here.
You need to aim better before you even start the attack, then release the same second. There's no time loss if you do it right..
Still limits it, cuz there's just situations where you just simply can't angle the aim while blocking and instantly get off the overhead, where before you could, cuz you could do your adjustment while it was swinging. Those situations are where the nerf has limited the attack's situational use.
Nice signature Tzar. My first reaction was "not another one of these fucking things on my screen again". I've killed a couple during the summer :x
Or step to the left or right yourself and laugh as your weapon collides with their head. If I can consistently land overheads with the long maul in a duel, (the slowest overheading weapon in the game by a large margin) regular people can do it with a 90-something speed sword.Except that the slower the weapon is, the longer duration the overhead release animation, which directly correlates to how long you have to turn your swing. Fast, short weapons are by far harder to land overheads with than long, slow weapons.
Except that the slower the weapon is, the longer duration the overhead release animation, which directly correlates to how long you have to turn your swing. Fast, short weapons are by far harder to land overheads with than long, slow weapons.
<--- Main is a 1-hander. Has no problem with overheads.Define "no problem". 80%? 90%? And that's more, or less than before the change? If less, explain why it needed to be nerfed in the first place, because I still can't find a single thing that was remotely unfair about the previous 1h overhead mechanics.
Don't forget all the people that left because of the nerf and won't be counted in the poll.
Define "no problem". 80%? 90%? And that's more, or less than before the change? If less, explain why it needed to be nerfed in the first place, because I still can't find a single thing that was remotely unfair about the previous 1h overhead mechanics.
Regardless of whether or not you say you have no problems with landing them, it doesn't change the fact that short fast weapons are harder to land the overhead with than long, slow weapons. I wasn't aware that short, fast weapons were overpowered and thus in need of a nerf. Last I checked, they were among the lesser used weapons (not counting the katana, because weaboo).
it's absolutely terrible, makes it impossible to do about a thousand moves with my build, and about 10,000 other builds. Adds nothing to the game.
With a 1-hander if I'm going for an overhead on a guy behind me, I can spin around (which won't be effected by the nerf 'cause I haven't swung yet) swing at the last second and hit the guy before he can react. I can't do that with the long maul as I need to swing when the opponent is roughly in the middle so that I have as much turning movement as possible to adjust for his movement.This is exactly my problem with the mechanic, it forces you to hold. Fighting a jumping, spinning awl pikeman? Gonna have to hold every chamber swing or you'll just hit the air. Why is this bad? Because it slows the game down when it's already too slow, and doesn't have a single change planned that will speed the game up, countering the several patches over the years that have done nothing but slow gameplay down.
With the old turning speed, you could dodge some baddie with a great maul and then he turns his mouse at the last second and drags the thing onto your foot, killing you. That's stupid. Now you can still land overheads easy, you just have to change the way you do it. If you use the movement keys to make large adjustments and the mouse for small adjustments you'll hit the target consistently.This isn't something you can abuse with a fast weapon, their overhead animation doesn't hang like it does with an 80 speed weapon, 98+ speed tends to just be too fast. I don't see why a 102/103 speed weapon has to be punished by not being allowed to turn more than 45 degrees (unable to adjust for their opponent moving more than three feet!) singly because they're so much closer to their target. It's bad enough the dueling metagame has turned into a backpedal fest.
Screwed up swinging my spear around peoples blocks with my hoplite. So yeah revert it in my opinion.
Don't forget all the people that left because of the nerf and won't be counted in the poll.Such as the 22nd Battalion, among the earliest supporters of cRPG, who've as far as I know left due to changes like the turn rate nerf.
So you think that having a bugged feature that "balances" things out is good?I only say that it was aimed on piker and mauler.
Take a look at those two gifs, I am killing someone who is a meter to my left. It is totally unreliable and my ping is 60ms
Bumping thread because of a fresh gif:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
As you can see, the ghost overhead is still very much present in latest version of cRPG.
This was my 2nd kill after starting to record.
Since overheads are rather uncertain, mauls are rendered pretty much useless and pose a teamkilling danger.
This, happening to me all time all day. Couple times CMP say that is fixed - but its not. It is totally retarded and devs should fix this.
No shit?hmm, i've never experienced it like that.. But really, i dont pay that much attention to it. :)
They work if you overcompensate for the enemy movement, but than you have to hit air to kill.
(click to show/hide)
hmm, i've never experienced it like that.. But really, i dont pay that much attention to it. :)
Plenty of people often do TK's that shouldn't be possible -- as proven by Kulin's gif -- where they always afterwards explain "I really don't know how that could have happened". Having seen and remembering both incidents from personal playing (2h+polearm) and from watching others I concur with Kulin, the overhead are just weird sometimes, who haven't seen someone kill a guy that they 100% did not hit.
Basically it feels like the game sometimes doesn't register turning (even though its nowhere near a 180) after having started the overhead swing, so the attack is static.
You need to keep turning while releasing attack, and you need to do quick and sudden change of direction while you do so.
Other guy should also be moving. Come to siege and try a maul, its easiest to reproduce it there.
I will maybe make a youtube video demonstrating it.
here, for everyone.
lrn2play.
quit complaining, and just get better. im glad you cant do quick 180 vertical strikes anymore.
all you guys ever do is spam side swing anyway... so why complain about the vertical strikes?