Turn rate nerf

[Voester]

Imo keep the changes for weapons over 200 length and weapons with crushthrough. Revert everything else.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Imo keep the changes for weapons over 200 length and weapons with crushthrough. Revert everything else.

Since  2h greatswords got like 200 reach with the animation...

[Teeth]

Stab noobs like me like this change, and I can stab reliably with 1h now.

I can't, its friggin crap and unreliable.

[Renegat]

The new 1h stab is WAY better than the old stab. With the new one, you can land a stab at really close range which is good for short weapons like 1-handers. It makes it terribly easy to land 2 hits on someone in quick succession.

The new overhead does take more skill than the old one, but it's still easy to consistently land overheads. You just need to compensate more with your movement keys instead of your mouse.

Honestly if the people in this thread spent their time learning the new overhead and stab instead of complaining about it, they would be able to do it perfectly by now.

(are you a shielder or a 1h without shield?)

Well, i don't share your view about the stab, my stabs were more efficient before the nerf. But i guess i didn't adapt myself well according to poeple who think stabs is better now.

About the overhead, which where i'm a bit more proficient than stabing, i definitly don't understand how you can like it as it is now. It is so easy to avoid it for another melee nowadays. Due to its speed and the small length (i think) you don't have time to follow the guy you're fighting with (llike you can do for 2h and pole) and he can easily avoid it in turning around you and then spam. (i mean going right or left as soon as he see the one hander using overhead and spam instead of blocking).

I'm a polearm now (using a poleaxe) and each time i'm fighting against a shielder, i go left/right while spamming as soon as i see him using overhead cause his sword can't follow so miss me 90% of the time.

[duurrr]

(are you a shielder or a 1h without shield?)

Well, i don't share your view about the stab, my stabs were more efficient before the nerf. But i guess i didn't adapt myself well according to poeple who think stabs is better now.

About the overhead, which where i'm a bit more proficient than stabing, i definitly don't understand how you can like it as it is now. It is so easy to avoid it for another melee nowadays. Due to its speed and the small length (i think) you don't have time to follow the guy you're fighting with (llike you can do for 2h and pole) and he can easily avoid it in turning around you and then spam. (i mean going right or left as soon as he see the one hander using overhead and spam instead of blocking).

I'm a polearm now (using a poleaxe) and each time i'm fighting against a shielder, i go left/right while spamming as soon as i see him using overhead cause his sword can't follow so miss me 90% of the time.

and if you do get hit its barely gonna hurt so who cares   

[dreadnok]

ya,  overhead nerf is what pisses me off and takes away again quit some freedom and possibilities

,   awwwe booooohooooo i cant like a jerkoff having aseizure

[Vibe]

What I don't like about it is the ghost overheads.

Check out this gif I made, teamkilling a guy to my left but clearly missing him on my screen. Had this happen more than once.

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lol nice, gif doesn't work for me unless i open it in a new window btw

[Tears of Destiny]

Aye, nice gif but you need to right click on the image itself for the real url if you want to embed it, so http://s12.postimage.org/ot8rwy9zf/bug.gif

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[Corsair831]

overhead nerf completely changes the way i have to fight with a 1h/shield, spinning overheads are just a huge no-no now ... the only way i ever attempt them is part of rhythmic face-face fighting, and they rarely EVER result in a hit (the slowest, most obvious attack) ...

using them as a target-switch attack is just suicide, it will never hit, ever, since the change.

[Butan]

overhead nerf completely changes the way i have to fight with a 1h/shield, spinning overheads are just a huge no-no now ... the only way i ever attempt them is part of rhythmic face-face fighting, and they rarely EVER result in a hit (the slowest, most obvious attack) ...

using them as a target-switch attack is just suicide, it will never hit, ever, since the change.

That is so true, and the gif of Kulin_ban should clearly tell the devs that the Overhead must be reworked.


Like Corsair said,  when you're smart about fighting you almost NEVER use it atm; it is so uber hard to land a hit (except on poor teammates), and EXCEPTIONNALY HARD to do a "ghost Overhead" that hits (or like I say, the lolOH) that you cant use it against people that arent complete trash.

This change to the game kind of broke the balance between every 4 attack directions being chosen to attack: before the patch, for almost every kind of 4 directional attack weapons (except some who never had good stab/OH or a terrible swing) you could efficiently use THE FOUR OF THEM in almost every battle situation.

Now, without exaggerating, the smart thing to do with 4 directional attack is :

- 70% swing left or right: mostly dependent of opponent position, type of weapon (some have a better right, some a better left) and for chambering purposes;
- 20% stab : to initiate an attack or to try and pull a face-stab glance combo, or even a lolstab, because it still works at some degree;
- 10% overhead : when you feel lucky or want to add some variety to the fight  even if the rarity of this attack influences the fact that it is somewhat harder to block and that it still powns in a duel when you can turn around an opponent or use it in some godly combo


Its almost the same parameter for siege, battle & duel; the only thing that changes is when you're ganking someone you often use the OH to not kill your teammates (which is paradoxically harder to do due to the overhead ghost hit in the previous post).



This + game speed issue is what is making the game boring for people who played A LOT, and they represent the majority of the players (or did represent since some just doesnt play anymore, or not as much).

[rustyspoon]

This is why I like the new overhead:

Adds more skill to the game. Positioning, footwork and timing become more important instead of who can turn their mouse fast.
People expect overheads less now. So for people who can consistently land overheads, it's pretty great. Same thing with stabs.

Now, without exaggerating, the smart thing to do with 4 directional attack is :

- 70% swing left or right: mostly dependent of opponent position, type of weapon (some have a better right, some a better left) and for chambering purposes;
- 20% stab : to initiate an attack or to try and pull a face-stab glance combo, or even a lolstab, because it still works at some degree;
- 10% overhead : when you feel lucky or want to add some variety to the fight  even if the rarity of this attack influences the fact that it is somewhat harder to block and that it still powns in a duel when you can turn around an opponent or use it in some godly combo

I would say this was the average attack breakdown before the change. Most people did left and right swings most of the time anyway. Overheads were always riskier moves than left/right swing just due to the fact that you can't turn into an overhead.

Really if you just used your movement keys more instead of your mouse, and spent 5 minutes learning it no one would have problems with the turn speed nerf.

As it stands now, you should really only be having trouble if you have incredibly low athletics or you use an incredibly slow weapon. With practice though, you can even overcome that. I can consistently hit people with long maul overheads and that weapon is ridiculously slow.

Whenever any mechanic gets changed in this game (especially one that requires more skill) people cry about it. Eventually people will get used to it and you'll never hear of it again.

[Butan]

Swings were always more common, but it wasnt the smartest thing to do, when you knew how to play smart.

OH, riskier as an initiating attack ? sure.

Now its just risky both as initiating and after-block attack, because it just wont land on your target if he uses the footwork you described.


Movements keys AND mouse = skill. Not just movement keys. Thats the combination of both, with all the attack direction that gives the cRPG's thrill. You lower mouse speed precision, you lower the overall potential of the game, plain and simple.


As you said, even now you can overcome the difficulty related to this out of place OH attack turn range; but it is both unnatural and clumsy, and those who adapts just stopped using it in most of the situations it was doing well. Thats what I call a step back in gameplay related to skillfull use of the game mechanic, not an improvement.

[cmp]

"Ghost overhead" (the gif above) doesn't exist anymore, unless you're playing on an outdated server or with an outdated client or with heavy lag.

[Turkhammer]

I'm really dissapointed by the turn nerf, but im not sure if there was another possibility for the dev to nerf the lolstab without acting on the turn speed.

The main problem of that nerf is that it is almost impossible to fight a gank squad when you are heavily surrounded, old turning speed was very rewarding for people who had very good reflex.

It SHOULD be impossible to fight a gank squad for Chis' sake!  This game should not be Rambo or Heroes of Might and Magic like some would like.

[Butan]

"Ghost overhead" (the gif above) doesn't exist anymore, unless you're playing on an outdated server or with an outdated client or with heavy lag.

Still happens to me though, and easy to reproduce the situation and show it to you.

Except if EU_1 is outdated and/or 50 ping is considered lagging.

It SHOULD be impossible to fight a gank squad for Chis' sake!  This game should not be Rambo or Heroes of Might and Magic like some would like.

When you have experienced thousands of life as a warrior (respawned 10000's times in a game), you should be able to do some crazy shit.
The experience plateau in cRPG is wonderfully done, players can do extremely difficult things and sometimes succeed in doing so; the old turn speed permitted extremely good players with excellent block reflex, positioning, and general awareness (all these things are uber hard to master) to shine in very dangerous situations.