cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 05:47:04 pm

Title: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 05:47:04 pm
Initial impression of anit-lol stab feature -
Ugh. Hate it on so many levels.
Rather get lol stabbed by Hudson then gimp everything.
I'd rather watch the Sosarian Knight slaughter a group then see him sitting at the back like a camp follower.
Honestly, I'd rather get dick slapped by one of Dasty's spinning jump spins.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 05:52:22 pm
No.

Get out.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Blackzilla on June 21, 2012, 05:53:36 pm
I think zisa is mad because she cant spin stab horses.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 05:54:44 pm
No.

Get out.
I probably will when MWO goes live. Or I'll do something silly and buy a founders pack with mechs I won't pilot but get my name in the credits. Or I'll start exercising because the belly dancer on 'So You Think You Can Dance' last night was jaw dropping.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 05:56:06 pm
I probably will when MWO goes live. Or I'll do something silly and buy a founders pack with mechs I won't pilot but get my name in the credits. Or I'll start exercising because the belly dancer on 'So You Think You Can Dance' last night was jaw dropping.

I wouldn't worry about buying the founders pack. You only get the original 4 mechs (or choice of 1 from those 4) and early access.

I'm just going to save me enough to get a Summoner or a Hellbringer, then go nuts!!
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 05:56:25 pm
I think zisa is mad because she cant spin stab horses.

Haven't played yet but AFAIK you can still spin stab up to 180 degrees, so that shouldnt be an issue.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Peasant_Woman on June 21, 2012, 05:58:13 pm
Oh good, the daily NA drama thread is here.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Molly on June 21, 2012, 06:00:11 pm
About time NA gets some of the cmp love EU already enjoys for the last few days.
Let the whine commence...

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Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 06:01:35 pm
Haven't played yet but AFAIK you can still spin stab up to 180 degrees, so that shouldnt be an issue.
Well you can not spin stab up to 180 degrees. The speed at which you can spin will make you think you are underwater.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Christo on June 21, 2012, 06:03:25 pm
Daily NA drama thread.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 06:05:34 pm
Spins are limited to <90o from the time of release.

I like it. Makes more sense.

Next: The nerfing of jump stabs. Limit stabs to a 10o radius in the direction of a forward jump (so hoplite jumps are viable, but not tardo jump spin gg muufucka stabs).
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Penitent on June 21, 2012, 06:08:54 pm
Spins are limited to <90o from the time of release.

I like it. Makes more sense.

Next: The nerfing of jump stabs. Limit stabs to a 10o radius in the direction of a forward jump.

I'm not going to be able to try this for quite a few hours after work, so I'm wondering...

Is that 90o of turning at the same speed, but anything outside of that is slower?  Or is ALL turning while stabbing slowed?  What about turning while the attack is chambered/held back?

What was the consensus on EU?  I'm assuming most ppl think its  a success or they wouldn't have ported it over to NA.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 06:11:17 pm
Not sure there was a consensus.
Lots of lobbying though.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 21, 2012, 06:11:38 pm
What I see with this patch is the game being made more easy for newer players, and more boring at higher levels of play.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: _GTX_ on June 21, 2012, 06:11:44 pm
I'm not going to be able to try this for quite a few hours after work, so I'm wondering...

Is that 90o of turning at the same speed, but anything outside of that is slower?  Or is ALL turning while stabbing slowed?  What about turning while the attack is chambered/held back?

What was the consensus on EU?  I'm assuming most ppl think its  a success or they wouldn't have ported it over to NA.

Its a little bit slower, if u just like toss ur mouse to the side.

What I see with this patch is the game being made more easy for newer players, and more boring at higher levels of play.

Thats exactly what it is doing, agree.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on June 21, 2012, 06:13:42 pm
When it comes to making the game more realistic, getting rid of lawl stabbing is really the first thing to be done. Should also help to nerf the awlpike which is somewhat OP.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 06:14:37 pm
When it comes to making the game more realistic, getting rid of lawl stabbing is really the first thing to be done. Should also help to nerf the awlpike which is somewhat OP.
I'm trying to recall ever seeing you with something that had a stab.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 21, 2012, 06:14:54 pm
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Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 06:16:13 pm
I'm not going to be able to try this for quite a few hours after work, so I'm wondering...

Is that 90o of turning at the same speed, but anything outside of that is slower?  Or is ALL turning while stabbing slowed?  What about turning while the attack is chambered/held back?

What was the consensus on EU?  I'm assuming most ppl think its  a success or they wouldn't have ported it over to NA.

All turning with the stab is slowed. As soon as you release the LMB, your spin speed is slowed significantly. I believe turning with a chambered stab remains the same as stock.

I think it's a success, because I'm pretty much over having to bring my own pike in order to confirm a kill on other pikemen, otherwise they can hop, spin and fuck up everything in a helicopter blade zone.

The fact that your turn speed is slowed on release of your weapon means that it's viable to stab effectively within the 90o from your point of release. I can still hit people directly to my sides, but they tend to have to be pretty far out (as far as pikes go). It's fun to beat on the 2handers who rely on the lolstabs, too. It's almost like karma has caught up with them and I am karma's hand of justice. 

When it comes to making the game more realistic, getting rid of lawl stabbing is really the first thing to be done. Should also help to nerf the awlpike which is somewhat OP.

As a horseman and steel picker, I feel like your support of this update is unfounded.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 06:18:57 pm
When it comes to making the game more realistic, getting rid of lawl stabbing is really the first thing to be done. Should also help to nerf the awlpike which is somewhat OP.

I would have never thought the guy that plays morningstar gank cav doesnt like long pokey weapons...
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 06:20:03 pm
As the entire NA community expresses its distaste for Lemmy Winks and his biased opinions.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Peasant_Woman on June 21, 2012, 06:23:08 pm
Nodachi remembers stab
It learned to go without
How the mighty have fallen

Do you adore the haiku?
NA Drama threads are fun
Why do I feel so dirty though...
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 21, 2012, 06:26:38 pm
This is awful. I just played a bit of duel and battle to test out the patch.

Not being able to spin your stabs removes an enormous element of skill from melee combat. Pretty much if an opponent is facing slightly away from you  (45 degrees or so), there is only one viable swing direction they have. A thrust and an overhead will take so long to reach the opponent that they will have ages to block. This makes blocking vastly easier.

The only thing this has accomplished is greatly decreasing the skill ceiling for melee combat, which isn't something that should ever happen.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 06:28:31 pm
This is awful. I just played a bit of duel and battle to test out the patch.

Not being able to spin your stabs removes an enormous element of skill from melee combat. Pretty much if an opponent is facing slightly away from you  (45 degrees or so), there is only one viable swing direction they have. This makes blocking vastly easier.

The only thing this has accomplished is greatly decreasing the skill ceiling for melee combat, which isn't something that should ever happen.

Have you tried the side swings?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 21, 2012, 06:31:02 pm
Have you tried the side swings?
Since there's only a single viable swing when facing somewhat away from your opponent, and when facing your opponent dead-on swings are pretty easy to block, that doesn't really help. I always used a mix of side-swings and thrusts anyways.

This is an enormous nerf to individual player skill.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zanze on June 21, 2012, 06:32:53 pm
Hmm. I guess I can get use to the holding the stab for a second longer while turning...but its definitely going to be more predictable. New players are still going to get the crap stabbed out of them, but the better ones will be able to get a 6 pack, drink it, take a piss, and come back and still be able to block the stab in time.


...WTB Overhead stabs for hoplites or thrust only weapons! You guys argue realism in turning, I argue realism in the fact that putting your weapon horizontal at your waist is not going to block a stab to the face!
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 06:33:34 pm
Since there's only a single viable swing when facing somewhat away from your opponent, and when facing your opponent dead-on swings are pretty easy to block, that doesn't really help. I always used a mix of side-swings and thrusts anyways.

This is an enormous nerf to individual player skill.

Well.. Aren't polearms supposed to be a support weapon (for the most part) anyway ?

Tell you what I'm over is those Norse Horde guys using pikes. Because dressing the part is the only requirement to RP. Vikings and pikes.
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Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Penitent on June 21, 2012, 06:34:03 pm
You can't say its an overall nerf to melee skill.  It makes things easier for some players (those blocking a thrust) and harder for other (those performing a thrust).  So its a wash.  Harder for some, easier for others.  That's what a nerf is!  Spin stabs were nerfed, so those using them will have to increase their skill to remain competitive.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 21, 2012, 06:36:11 pm
Well.. Aren't polearms supposed to be a support weapon (for the most part) anyway ?
I play every class. I only respecced to a polearm last week, and I'll be 1h again next week. Then 2h again.

This hits every single weapon class really hard. 2h stabs are a large part of what makes 2h weapons good, and for 1h stabs twisting is vital for ensuring a clean hit.

Quote
You can't say its an overall nerf to melee skill.  It makes things easier for some players (those blocking a thrust) and harder for other (those performing a thrust).  So its a wash.  Harder for some, easier for others.  That's what a nerf is!  Spin stabs were nerfed, so those using them will have to increase their skill to remain competitive.
Let's extend this. Let's remove every attack direction except for stabs! It's not a nerf to individual skill - it's only harder for people who used the other swing directions.

That is, of course, dumb. Every option in melee combat you remove decreases the number of skills a melee player needs to learn before becoming decent at the game.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zanze on June 21, 2012, 06:37:21 pm
Yeah, because every Viking had a burly beard, expensive fur coated armor or no armor at all, throwing axes, a really big axe to cleave people with. Spears weren't part of it at all.

Vodner, you are a 2h. You have no right to complain about the minor nerf to your weapon while thrusting based polearms got the shaft. (pun intended)
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Elindor on June 21, 2012, 06:37:24 pm
One good thing about not relying too much on stuff like lolstabbing or polestagger or stuff like that is that these nerfs are never a big issue - if anything they are welcome changes :)
<-- 21/21 build with MW longsword
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Earthdforce on June 21, 2012, 06:38:12 pm
Spin stabs were nerfed, so those using them will have to increase their skill to remain competitive.
Or...no one can master this new stab, so the overall community skill level drops.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 06:38:22 pm
This hits every single weapon class really hard. 2h stabs are a large part of what makes 2h weapons good, and for 1h stabs twisting is vital for ensuring a clean hit.

I agree with the 1h part. But one thing that always bothered me with the 2h stab is that people would stab clean past me, while I had my block down. Then once I was pretty sure that there's no way that that stab is going to get me, I get ready for a swing.

Then out of butt fuck nowhere, they DRAAAAAG the tip of their sword into me, for a full stab damage and swing cancellation.

THAT. Is stupid.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 21, 2012, 06:39:36 pm
Vodner, you are a 2h. You have no right to complain about the minor nerf to your weapon while thrusting based polearms got the shaft. (pun intended)
I'm actually a polearm right now (not a very good one, but a polearm nonetheless). I was a 2h before that. Before that I was a 1h. Before that I was polearm again. Etc, etc.

Quote
Then once I was pretty sure that there's no way that that stab is going to get me, I get ready for a swing.

Then out of butt fuck nowhere, they DRAAAAAG the tip of their sword into me, for a full stab damage and swing cancellation.

THAT. Is stupid.
No, that's a punishment either not understanding or for momentarily forgetting the melee mechanics that make that possible. It was one of the things that made melee combat as deep as it was - failing to take into consideration every single trick your opponent has available to him can lead to you quickly losing a fight, or at least taking substantial damage.

That's exactly how things should be. It should be very easy to make mistakes.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 06:39:48 pm
Yeah, because every Viking had a burly beard, expensive fur coated armor or no armor at all, throwing axes, a really big axe to cleave people with. Spears weren't part of it at all.

Pikes weren't even invented until the 1400s.

http://randkl.com/joemodeling/spears.html
I stand corrected, and I maintain that your pikes were gay.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zanze on June 21, 2012, 06:41:48 pm
First thing I found on google
(click to show/hide)

 Qtd in http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_spear.htm
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Oberyn on June 21, 2012, 06:46:18 pm
Initial impression of anit-lol stab feature -
Ugh. Hate it on so many levels.
Rather get lol stabbed by Hudson then gimp everything.
I'd rather watch the Sosarian Knight slaughter a group then see him sitting at the back like a camp follower.
Honestly, I'd rather get dick slapped by one of Dasty's spinning jump spins.

Blatantly self serving.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Penitent on June 21, 2012, 06:46:36 pm
wait, all spinning stabs were nerfed?  I thought it was just pole spin-stabs, which were ridiculous (they allowed one to stab with the "side" of the point.)

What the hell was wrong with 1h stabs?  This is an outrage.  1h should be able to stab opponents that are really close to them, and spinning is the only thing that allowed this.  On pikes it was fucked up, but it makes sense on a 1h sword.

I am against this now. 
They said they were nerfing pole spin-stab, and snuck in everything.  Just like congress... :evil:
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Tor! on June 21, 2012, 06:46:59 pm
I respect the devs work and vision, but something really went wrong here. I completely agree with what Saul says. It caters less and less to the individual, and most importantly player skill. The game should not be made simpler when the skill ceiling was reached a year ago. Some fights now are simply about who gets bored first, not about who actually outplays the other. If you are replacing the freedom of turning we had, atleast replace it with something that can fill the missing gap! Polestagger removed was a great thing though.

I find the only fun thing left in this game is to charge a group of players all alone, in hope of an interesting fight. As long as your not hit by a bolt, arrow or long poky sticks while doing it, those fights can still be fun.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 06:49:28 pm
Saul, you're telling me that one of the ways to get a kill is to abuse a mechanic that specifically gives one weapon class an advantage over all the others? The 1h couldn't do it, waiting too long ends in a glance. Polearms couldn't do it. It's not even in the animation. But oh god forbid we balance the precious 2h heroes and their swords of justice.

Also, from what I read about you and your fight with Hudson, you weren't pleased yourself with polearm spin stabs. Why should 2h stay with their broken mechanics when polearms get fixed? I'm not polearm lobbying here. I'm simply stating that broken mechanics - no matter from what weapon class - need to be fixed.

If you can delay stab people, then archers should be able to jump shoot.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 06:50:24 pm
First thing I found on google
(click to show/hide)

 Qtd in http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_spear.htm

First thing I found on google under greatsword length:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweih%C3%A4nder

So a pike should only be ~2x as long, but in game its much longer then that. I also didn't see anything in your link about 360 spin stabs or whatnot.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: cmp on June 21, 2012, 06:53:08 pm
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Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 21, 2012, 06:54:35 pm
Also, from what I read about you and your fight with Hudson, you weren't pleased yourself with polearm spin stabs. Why should 2h stay with their broken mechanics when polearms get fixed?
I don't think any weapon class should have received the nerf. What was annoying about fighting Sauce was that he was just weapon stunning me repeatedly (IE for over a minute), then he was cocky when I finally got impatient. I didn't have any complaints about any spinstabs he did - if I messed up the block then I deserved the hit. I love fighting BigSandwich, and he takes advantage of every mechanic available to him.

Spinstabs are actually *really* important for polearms, since their animations are so easy to read. I thought the complaints about losing 1v1 to a pike were silly - the only time it happens is if you are impatient.

I've always been in favor of giving polearms better left swing and overhead animations, removing polestagger, and buffing spear sideswing damage.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Penitent on June 21, 2012, 07:03:24 pm
was 1h spinning seriously nerfed as well?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 07:05:37 pm

(click to show/hide)
[/spoiler]
Hey, OBGYN,
If I was truly clever, and self serving, I would run around with a katana and giggle my way through a lot of people with this nerf.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zanze on June 21, 2012, 07:06:46 pm
First thing I found on google under greatsword length:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweih%C3%A4nder

So a pike should only be ~2x as long, but in game its much longer then that. I also didn't see anything in your link about 360 spin stabs or whatnot.

If you read the topic, I was arguing the length and usage of Viking Spears in that post. Not the 360 spin stabs.
What I will argue against 360 spin stabs "OH ITS NOT REALISTIC" argument is this: its "NOT REALISTIC" for you to hold your weapon at your waist and block a stab directed at any part of your body. You have taken away spin stabs, one directional thrust weapons are now boned. Give us an overhead thrust attack similar to mount and musket or napoleon.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: isatis on June 21, 2012, 07:08:48 pm
note to myself : sell quickly my greatsword to strange no patched australian

note to myself : keep thrower

note to myself : make popcorn
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Oberyn on June 21, 2012, 07:11:47 pm
[/spoiler]
Hey, OBGYN,
If I was truly clever, and self serving, I would run around with a katana and giggle my way through a lot of people with this nerf.

While my knowledge of vaginas is legendary, I cannot take that much credit for it. Abusing visual bugs that make literally zero sense shouldn't be part of "skill", if they were, addapt and get the fuck over it.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 07:13:33 pm
While my knowledge of vaginas is legendary, I cannot take that much credit for it. Abusing visual bugs that make literally zero sense shouldn't be part of "skill", if they were, addapt and get the fuck over it.
Which bug are you referring to, and what the fuck?  You have non sequitered this thread, get a grip man.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Oberyn on June 21, 2012, 07:15:35 pm
Which bug are you referring to, and what the fuck?  You have non sequitered this thread, get a grip man.

I think it's pretty fucked up in the first place that dragging a thrust or overhead sideways into an enemy was considered something normal and just another part of a player's arsenal. It was retarded and it looked retarded.
And everything in that previous post was relevant, no non-sequiturs. Unless you don't know what OBGYN actually means and just think it sounded funny.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Penitent on June 21, 2012, 07:18:54 pm
I think it's pretty fucked up in the first place that dragging a thrust or overhead sideways into an enemy was considered something normal and just another part of a player's arsenal. It was retarded and it looked retarded.
And everything in that previous post was relevant, no non-sequiturs.

Looks retarded for poles, but not 1h.  It makes sense to twist a thrust into an enemy to your left.  I'm doing right now, with my hand.

No one will answer me.  Was 1h spin thrusting nerfed, and why? 

Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 21, 2012, 07:19:19 pm
Quote
I think it's pretty fucked up in the first place that dragging a thrust or overhead sideways into an enemy was considered something normal and just another part of a player's arsenal. It was retarded and it looked retarded.
Ensuring that player skill is paramount is far more important than getting rid of something because it looks a little silly.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 21, 2012, 07:21:08 pm
I'll just say right now that I am in full agreement with everything Vodner has to say and that it has reached the point where I'm sad that my Warband crashes whenever I enter a Native server.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Allers on June 21, 2012, 07:21:46 pm
zisa mad because he bad
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Canary on June 21, 2012, 07:21:54 pm
wait, all spinning stabs were nerfed?
All stabs and all overheads.

Polestagger removed was a great thing though.
Polestagger still exists on NA. We don't have the dead bodies absorbing hits thing, either. This thread is very convoluted. All we got from the new system was the stab/overhead turning reduction, so far.

Saul, you're telling me that one of the ways to get a kill is to abuse a mechanic that specifically gives one weapon class an advantage over all the others? The 1h couldn't do it, waiting too long ends in a glance. Polearms couldn't do it. It's not even in the animation. But oh god forbid we balance the precious 2h heroes and their swords of justice.
Clearly the answer is to remove a large amount of the advantage manual dexterity(in real life) can give you while playing the game for all melee classes. This is a universal handicap on motor skills.

You can't say its an overall nerf to melee skill.  It makes things easier for some players (those blocking a thrust) and harder for other (those performing a thrust).  So its a wash.  Harder for some, easier for others.  That's what a nerf is!  Spin stabs were nerfed, so those using them will have to increase their skill to remain competitive.
At what point does "having to increase their skill to remain competitive" become "unable to compete with parity" and "having to switch weapons to remain viable" I wonder?

Yeah, you can say it's an overall nerf to melee skill. Yes, it will take some practice to compensate for the loss of the range of motion, but like I said: It's literally a handicap on motor skills, a reduction of precision while using your mouse. What's more is that it removes much of the viability of weapons that are only capable of attacking in the two directions that got nerfed. I wouldn't say that people not using those weapons automatically deserved to be at least half less affected by such an otherwise universal nerf, especially not on some basis of "they can increase their skill so it's okay!"

I'm not entirely against the change, but having it be universal to weapon classes is bad. How bad? Faster weapons didn't seem to be able to turn as far during the stab or overhead because of how quickly the animation ended. For an overall faster-speed weapon class like 1handers, that's extremely bad.  You now have to aim so much more beforehand when using weapons that should be giving you an advantage in animation speed that it has become a severe disparity that I don't think serves to make the game better.

I will now quote myself on my thoughts before this thread on the spinstabs, because I think I summed it up okay:
...

Now, of course, spinstab still has its issues. I don't feel you should ever be able to swing twice and succeed if the other person blocked your first attack, assuming they start attacking, unless there are extreme circumstances involved (they're using a much slower weapon than you, teamplay/not 1on1, glancing on walls), but that also applies to hiltslash and I guess crushthrough. Blocking then jumping and turning into a person and landing a hit after you've just dinged against somebody's block is ridiculous. Stabbing through teammates is ridiculous. Stabbing over and around walls is usually ridiculous.

What's not ridiculous is using a spin to land a hit on someone just because they're close to you and your weapon is over 150 length (within reason). This mechanic can be stopped so easily, you just have to watch for it and block down. It's a problem when you don't block it, but I will say that it's highly exacerbated by the immediacy of the active hitbox. Spinning to decrease the time between the start of your swing and the time you can viably hit someone with it is bad, but you should not be helpless when someone is in your face just because you chose a weapon that only has two attack directions.

...

I do know that I do a lot of last minute corrections during the attack animation on every thrust I put forth, mostly to avoid teammates with them. The speed at which I can turn will greatly affect the amount of times I can viably thrust without teamhitting. So, that'd be a nerf for teamplay as well.

You have taken away spin stabs, one directional thrust weapons are now boned.

I wouldn't say that. They're honestly better off than up/down only weapons, because the only two single direction attack weapons in the game(barring hoplite weapons, which are arguably the worst off because of this nerf) are so long. They're still alright for team situation, they're just much worse in a 1vs1 situation, now. The shorter up/down weapons were already worse for teamwork and are now also much worse in a 1v1 situation, which they were quite viable for previously.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Peasant_Woman on June 21, 2012, 07:22:09 pm
Ensuring that player skill is paramount is far more important than getting rid of something because it looks a little silly.

Because abusing something that logic tells you shouldn't even physics is really skilled.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Oberyn on June 21, 2012, 07:22:16 pm
I disagree. Was it something that was intended? Did the Warband devs deliberately make it that way, or is it just something flawed in the combat mechanisms that veteran players got used to?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 07:24:22 pm
I think it's pretty fucked up in the first place that dragging a thrust or overhead sideways into an enemy was considered something normal and just another part of a player's arsenal. It was retarded and it looked retarded.
The overhead drag is nonsense, but make sure we are referring to the same thing...
I see it as the hits that 'miss', then magically drag to shoe for the achilles tendon insta kill.
Sadly, I only seem to get 'lucky' this way when I am trying to MISS a team mate.
Some of this is of course latency and illusion.
I'd go on about what I think may be some problems but I got a Haiku to post.

That is a lot different then overheading and turning and cleaving in two someone behind you.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 07:25:20 pm
Nodachi remembers stab
It learned to go without
How the mighty have fallen

Do you adore the haiku?
NA Drama threads are fun
Why do I feel so dirty though...

frozen stream cracked
masticated food for thought
waste undigested
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 21, 2012, 07:25:50 pm
Because abusing something that logic tells you shouldn't even physics is really skilled.

This is a video game. Who cares if it's realistic? I just want to have a multiplayer rpg-like game that challenges me and has an infinitely rising skill-ceiling so I can have fun, challenging fights all the time.

If I wanted realism I'd go outside.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: rufio on June 21, 2012, 07:28:10 pm
game is going in the right direction, if enything it has become more challenging imo, people have just rusted into the old mechanics and are abit shaken up and need adapting.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 21, 2012, 07:28:16 pm
Because abusing something that logic tells you shouldn't even physics is really skilled.
Err? Now this is an example of a non sequitur. How realistic something is has nothing to do with how it affects the skill level of the game.

Quote
I disagree. Was it something that was intended? Did the Warband devs deliberately make it that way, or is it just something flawed in the combat mechanisms that veteran players got used to?
It doesn't matter whether or not it was intentional.

Bunnyhopping in Quake 1, and strafejumping in Quake 2 & 3 weren't intentional, but they added an enormous amount of depth to the games, and they were better off for it. Those games would not have been nearly as skill based as they were without the advanced movement systems they (unintentionally) ended up with.

Skiing in Tribes is another example. Skiing added both an enormous amount of individual skill to the game, and it increased the tactical depth as well.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: bruce on June 21, 2012, 07:29:22 pm
There are 5003429493212312 fantasy rpgs. Something which has mechanics which make logical sense is a breath of fresh air. Dragging a spearshaft into someone for armour-piercing stab is absurd.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Canary on June 21, 2012, 07:35:31 pm
There are 5003429493212312 fantasy rpgs. Something which has mechanics which make logical sense is a breath of fresh air. Dragging a spearshaft into someone for armour-piercing stab is absurd.

Holding an extended spear at the ready and having some guy walk right through it to hit you from hand-shaking distance is absurd.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 07:36:37 pm
If people wanted to have crazy super jumpsuper spin stabs 30 fucking feet in the air, Final Fantasy is probably coming out with yet another installment. Try that.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 21, 2012, 07:38:15 pm
There are 5003429493212312 fantasy rpgs. Something which has mechanics which make logical sense is a breath of fresh air. Dragging a spearshaft into someone for armour-piercing stab is absurd.
Blocking a great axe with a 1h is absurd. Surviving getting hit by charging cav is absurd. Blocking every conceivable attack from one direction (especially stabs) by holding your weapon in a fixed position is absurd. Getting hurt with the edge of a sword while in plate is absurd.

And yet, the game is better off for every single one of those things.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: SixThumbs on June 21, 2012, 07:38:57 pm
You can actually more or less reliably dodge stabs and overheads now, I think I prefer that for a change of "depth" rather then someone smacking me with the flat of their blade from an overhead or whirl winding there weapon tip into me. Fighting those two directional pole-arms in a duel was ridiculous, if you wanted to swing your weapon around like that just pick one with four directions and make us, you more so, less dizzy once the fight is over.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Leshma on June 21, 2012, 07:39:10 pm
How do you like new patch so far? :D
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 07:39:29 pm
One of the problems with looking for reality in this game is that it is limited by mechanics. In reality you don't have 4 attack and block directions, and there is more depth to combat. The way I look at it, these tricks are a way to emulate real life combat.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 21, 2012, 07:40:42 pm
How do you like new patch so far? :D

As you can see, NA is having a blast with it. You should check in again when they get rid of polestagger. We'll see more polearm users posting then.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 07:41:20 pm
I disagree. Was it something that was intended? Did the Warband devs deliberately make it that way, or is it just something flawed in the combat mechanisms that veteran players got used to?
It was known in the beta that the best way to stab was to actually aim away from the target and bring it in.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: dreadnok on June 21, 2012, 07:42:00 pm
Initial impression of anit-lol stab feature -
Ugh. Hate it on so many levels.
Rather get lol stabbed by Hudson then gimp everything.
I'd rather watch the Sosarian Knight slaughter a group then see him sitting at the back like a camp follower.
Honestly, I'd rather get dick slapped by one of Dasty's spinning jump spins.

hmmm makes 0 sense
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: dreadnok on June 21, 2012, 07:44:29 pm
All turning with the stab is slowed. As soon as you release the LMB, your spin speed is slowed significantly. I believe turning with a chambered stab remains the same as stock.

I think it's a success, because I'm pretty much over having to bring my own pike in order to confirm a kill on other pikemen, otherwise they can hop, spin and fuck up everything in a helicopter blade zone.

The fact that your turn speed is slowed on release of your weapon means that it's viable to stab effectively within the 90o from your point of release. I can still hit people directly to my sides, but they tend to have to be pretty far out (as far as pikes go). It's fun to beat on the 2handers who rely on the lolstabs, too. It's almost like karma has caught up with them and I am karma's hand of justice. 

As a horseman and steel picker, I feel like your support of this update is unfounded.

i work at a clandestine military base dextaa. and that was actually going to be our next weapon on the war on terror
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Leshma on June 21, 2012, 07:44:42 pm
Come on, don't tell me you miss spinning attacks so much? You guys are even worse than EU counterpart.

You'll adapt, just as we did.

People stopped playing after upkeep patch. People also stopped playing when certain weapons were nerfed. When armor looms were nerfed. People will always find some dumb reason to stop playing this wonderful game.

Then they'll try something else, play it for awhile (while still being active on forums saying how their new game rocks and how cRPG sucks) and... at the end they'll come back to cRPG. Because cRPG has no alternative if you're true gamer.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 07:44:46 pm
hmmm makes 0 sense
Try taking reading lessons, or attend Morons Anonymous.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Peasant_Woman on June 21, 2012, 07:45:46 pm
Err? Now this is an example of a non sequitur. How realistic something is has nothing to do with how it affects the skill level of the game.
It doesn't matter whether or not it was intentional.

It looks bad. It doesn't feel like it was a fair kill when it happens to you, players don't like to feel cheated by the game mechanics.

Bunnyhopping in Quake 1, and strafejumping in Quake 2 & 3 weren't intentional, but they added an enormous amount of depth to the games, and they were better off for it. Those games would not have been nearly as skill based as they were without the advanced movement systems they (unintentionally) ended up with.

Skiing in Tribes is another example. Skiing added both an enormous amount of individual skill to the game, and it increased the tactical depth as well.

So what does the lolstab and dragged-overheads (or whatever you call them) add to this game?
Why can't we come up with some mechanics that add to the complexity of the game without stepping outside of reality in an otherwise fairly realistic melee combat simulator?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: dreadnok on June 21, 2012, 07:45:55 pm
One of the problems with looking for reality in this game is that it is limited by mechanics. In reality you don't have 4 attack and block directions, and there is more depth to combat. The way I look at it, these tricks are a way to emulate real life combat.

ya by impossible physics makes sense.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: bilwit on June 21, 2012, 07:46:21 pm
What I see with this patch is the game being made more easy for newer players, and more boring at higher levels of play.

Wouldn't it be harder for people to be good at poles?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 07:46:31 pm
You can actually more or less reliably dodge stabs and overheads now, I think I prefer that for a change of "depth" rather then someone smacking me with the flat of their blade from an overhead or whirl winding there weapon tip into me. Fighting those two directional pole-arms in a duel was ridiculous, if you wanted to swing your weapon around like that just pick one with four directions and make us, you more so, less dizzy once the fight is over.
You know what I would have prefered? I bet you might not care, that's ok, but I'll sum it up :

reduce lol stab - aka Hudson's poop and scoop, or the I DUB THEE DEAD, or whatever.

reduce the time stab is active. Not slow the turn radius while stabbing, and not limit the turn to whatever it is now.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: dreadnok on June 21, 2012, 07:48:03 pm
Try taking reading lessons, or attend Morons Anonymous.

 naa your complaining makes 0 sense. any way you look at it. if your accustomed to winning by using dumb and cheap tactics thats your fault for relying on the shit for so long. naaaa mean??? hudson is good with any weapon by the way
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 07:50:07 pm
naa your complaining makes 0 sense. any way you look at it. if your accustomed to winning by using dumb and cheap tactics thats your fault for relying on the shit for so long. naaaa mean??? hudson is good with any weapon by the way
I'm sorry imbecile, but I am accustomed to winning by proper positioning and team play.
Go outside and play while the adults have a chat.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: cmp on June 21, 2012, 07:51:57 pm
Spinstab? SKILL!
Hiltslash? SKILL!
Jumpslash? SKILL!
Jumpshot? OMG RETARDED @#&*(#@ NERF!!!1!!1111
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 21, 2012, 07:53:48 pm
So what does the lolstab and dragged-overheads (or whatever you call them) add to this game?
It forces you to consider more blocking directions when defending, it makes it somewhat more difficult to tell which direction to block, and it allows a player to threaten every enemy near him within stab distance (allowing a player to punish inexperience and carelessness).

Quote
Why can't we come up with some mechanics that add to the complexity of the game without stepping outside of reality in an otherwise fairly realistic melee combat simulator?
Primarily because adding deep new mechanics without access to the game source code is akin to building a sI love youcraper while looking though a microscope.

I'm all for changing melee if it increases the depth of the game. These changes don't do that - they only remove mechanics, decreasing the difference in effectiveness between a moderately experienced player and a very experienced one.

Combat should ideally be as deep as Starcraft II, or Street Fighter 2: Turbo, or other highly skill-based games. No matter how much you practice there should be limitless room to improve, and no matter how good you get there should almost always be players who can completely trash you.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Oberyn on June 21, 2012, 07:54:10 pm
Jumpshot was even more stupidly retarded than any of the other things on your list, but I may be biased.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Leshma on June 21, 2012, 07:55:34 pm
Was?

Jumpshot is possible if you haven't noticed.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 07:56:19 pm
Spinstab? SKILL!
Hiltslash? SKILL!
Jumpslash? SKILL!
Jumpshot? OMG RETARDED @#&*(#@ NERF!!!1!!1111
(click to show/hide)

More like melee FUNIST
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 21, 2012, 08:03:10 pm
It looks bad. It doesn't feel like it was a fair kill when it happens to you, players don't like to feel cheated by the game mechanics.

So what does the lolstab and dragged-overheads (or whatever you call them) add to this game?
Why can't we come up with some mechanics that add to the complexity of the game without stepping outside of reality in an otherwise fairly realistic melee combat simulator?

Well too bad. It *was* a fair kill, and anyone who has played this game long enough ought not to feel cheated because he ought to know how the game mechanics work at that point.

The lolstab and dragged-overheads add depth and complexity, that's what they add.

Also, who the hell is stopping you from coming up with "mechanics that add to the complexity of the game without stepping outside of reality in an otherwise fairly realistic melee combat simulator?" I most certainly am not, *provided* you don't remove everything that *adds* to the depth and complexity first and come up with stuff later. That's what's being done here. I didn't see anything that adds to depth and complexity being added in this patch; on the contrary it's been removed.

EDIT: Oh, Saul already posted. I forgot to check for new posts before I posted mine. :x
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Hobb on June 21, 2012, 08:05:10 pm
I feel like downblocks should have to be timed so you to block within a 1/2 or 1/4 second of impact so polearms can still use feint stabs etc

It would also help 1h and 2h stabs and most lance thrust are blocked in that amount of time, because they are really easy to time
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 08:06:25 pm
I feel like downblocks should have to be timed so you to block within a 1/2 or 1/4 second of impact so polearms can still use feint stabs etc

It would also help 1h and 2h stabs and most lance thrust are blocked in that amount of time, because they are really easy to time

so like a chamber?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: SixThumbs on June 21, 2012, 08:09:08 pm
You know what I would have prefered? I bet you might not care, that's ok, but I'll sum it up :

reduce lol stab - aka Hudson's poop and scoop, or the I DUB THEE DEAD, or whatever.

reduce the time stab is active. Not slow the turn radius while stabbing, and not limit the turn to whatever it is now.

Maybe that could've been a viable alternative but I don't think it would've stopped the insta-shovel-stab with polearms like the awlpike. Malke was always ridiculous to watch fighting 3+ people when he would just backpedal, jump-back stab-twirl his pike into whoever first in line for his pike, then jump through the crowd and repeat. When I was playing earlier with my bamboo spear I didn't really notice too much of a difference but then again I do just hang behind someone with it and drop it when someone starts getting too close to me.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 21, 2012, 08:12:35 pm
I feel like downblocks should have to be timed so you to block within a 1/2 or 1/4 second of impact so polearms can still use feint stabs etc

It would also help 1h and 2h stabs and most lance thrust are blocked in that amount of time, because they are really easy to time
Requiring *all* blocks to be made within a 1/4 second time-frame is something that might actually add considerable depth to the game. There would need to be severe rebalancing done so that an opponent can't simply sit with a chambered sideswing held to your side, though.

A change like this - something that cranks up the learning curve of the game, and potentially adds a large amount of depth to the game - is an example of a good change.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: bruce on June 21, 2012, 08:15:22 pm
Give us old old crpg archery because that took skill!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: SixThumbs on June 21, 2012, 08:16:50 pm
Also, to everyone else saying this is ruining depth to the game, you can dodge stabs and overheads now, and stabbing is relegated to what it usually is in most melee centric games, range control.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Hobb on June 21, 2012, 08:17:55 pm
Not really a chamber, because it wuld be easier and not timed by wat weapon your using but if you do it two early it will fail

Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: cmp on June 21, 2012, 08:20:22 pm
I feel like downblocks should have to be timed so you to block within a 1/2 or 1/4 second of impact so polearms can still use feint stabs etc

It would also help 1h and 2h stabs and most lance thrust are blocked in that amount of time, because they are really easy to time

Parry -> lower stun to blocker, higher stun to attacker
Block -> higher stun to blocker, lower stun to attacker

There was something similar to this in the Warband beta, but they removed it because people were shit at blocking and QQd.
Doesn't sound like a bad idea.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: rustyspoon on June 21, 2012, 08:22:48 pm
Just tried it in the few minutes I have before I go back to work. Doesn't seem to be a big deal honestly.

You can still turn fast as hell before the attack is released. I have a feeling it's going to make footwork be even MORE important and will be more of a nerf to str builds than anything else. So far I'm happy with it, though I really have to test how it will effect 1h stabs before I say for sure.

One thing though, hoplites are REALLY going to need some kind of fix after this. Hoplites were bad enough before this change.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 08:25:40 pm
Maybe that could've been a viable alternative but I don't think it would've stopped the insta-shovel-stab with polearms like the awlpike. Malke was always ridiculous to watch fighting 3+ people when he would just backpedal, jump-back stab-twirl his pike into whoever first in line for his pike, then jump through the crowd and repeat. When I was playing earlier with my bamboo spear I didn't really notice too much of a difference but then again I do just hang behind someone with it and drop it when someone starts getting too close to me.
I also recall defeating Dasty easily simply by holding down block until someone else pasted him, silly stupid easy to counter, but what do I know.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Hobb on June 21, 2012, 08:28:11 pm
Parry -> lower stun to blocker, higher stun to attacker
Block -> higher stun to blocker, lower stun to attacker

There was something similar to this in the Warband beta, but they removed it because people were shit at blocking and QQd.
Doesn't sound like a bad idea.

I mean the thing that comes to mind as the biggest problem is people afraid to block so they spam, but spam should be the easiest thing to parry


Also, this would bring more shielders which imo is good for the game. More teamwork and the natural counter to pew pew
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: SixThumbs on June 21, 2012, 08:28:39 pm
Dunno if they were catering to the "average" player but it doesn't seem like a lot of them understand the concept of down-blocking.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 08:29:20 pm
I also recall defeating Dasty easily simply by holding down block until someone else pasted him, silly stupid easy to counter, but what do I know.

I am not sure I believe this, since I don't think I have ever seen you hold any block.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 08:32:29 pm
I am not sure I believe this, since I don't think I have ever seen you hold any block.
Ask Dasty, he said "that was the most annoying thing anyone has ever done to me." I was wearing pilgrim diguise, 1hander using langes messier.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 08:43:56 pm
Ask Dasty, he said "that was the most annoying thing anyone has ever done to me." I was wearing pilgrim diguise, 1hander using langes messier.

I was just joking around. Long spear users duel tactics are mostly just a gimmick. If you play patiently you will beat them. I would say what most people disliked about them was curving it around teammates and objects and the wiggle.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 08:47:09 pm
I was just joking around. Long spear users duel tactics are mostly just a gimmick. If you play patiently you will beat them. I would say what most people disliked about them was curving it around teammates and objects and the wiggle.
Ah you hit the mark there, the pole going through obstacles to strike an enemy is sure to gain some rage.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Gafferjack on June 21, 2012, 08:51:38 pm
Requiring *all* blocks to be made within a 1/4 second time-frame is something that might actually add considerable depth to the game. There would need to be severe rebalancing done so that an opponent can't simply sit with a chambered sideswing held to your side, though.

Aside from your given example of a guy holding an attack direction for a million years and microholds, this is pretty much the time that people already block in; otherwise they take the hit.

A change like this - something that cranks up the learning curve of the game, and potentially adds a large amount of depth to the game - is an example of a good change.

Remove manual blocking, shorten player-hit stun animation. Skill ceiling skyrockets, depth variable. Alternatively, you can add a 1/10 to 1/8 second manual block so 2-direction weapons aren't useless beyond highly coordinated teamplay. Shields could be 1/3 second, I guess.

Then again, my opinion is probably shit, so whatever.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: bruce on June 21, 2012, 08:52:16 pm
wiggle.

Where's that drawing with the pike wiggle? I can't seem to be able to find that thread.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Elindor on June 21, 2012, 08:58:17 pm
This thread is fun!  :mrgreen:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 09:04:20 pm
Where's that drawing with the pike wiggle? I can't seem to be able to find that thread.

(click to show/hide)

this?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 09:07:36 pm
Requiring *all* blocks to be made within a 1/4 second time-frame is something that might actually add considerable depth to the game. There would need to be severe rebalancing done so that an opponent can't simply sit with a chambered sideswing held to your side, though.

A change like this - something that cranks up the learning curve of the game, and potentially adds a large amount of depth to the game - is an example of a good change.
There was (is?) a 50ms 'lag compensation' added for the window of opportunity to block.

I'd prefer to up the ante on wpf (and get a tiny bit more speed) and hope to fake someone out rather then cripple the chance to block, and probably add 1 to weapon speeds across the board as well.

Since BigSandwich (whoever the fuck that guy is now) was a peasant pre-patch I would avoid because he could block like a motherfucker, will have no problems with this proposed adjustment, I say you vote yes to proposal Z and let everyone have the opportunity to piss me off with fabulous blocking.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Xant on June 21, 2012, 09:16:22 pm
What is love

cmp don't hurt me

don't hurt me

no more

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Sauce on June 21, 2012, 09:21:11 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 09:33:16 pm
meaning it's time to buff 2h, 2h is underpowered, especially DGS

Yeah a kuyak+vaegir war mask+dgs combo should get a special bonus...you know...for synergy.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: San on June 21, 2012, 09:39:48 pm
I will be fully testing 1h and hoplite when I get on the game later today. I already sucked with positioning overheads in the past, so I hope this doesn't make me a TKing machine.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: ShinySpoons on June 21, 2012, 10:05:16 pm
Are jumpshots back in EU? Its not in NA. I miss jumpshots, if you were good you could jump over a shielder and shoot him in the face.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Castor on June 21, 2012, 10:06:28 pm
Come on, don't tell me you miss spinning attacks so much? You guys are even worse than EU counterpart.

You'll adapt, just as we did.

People stopped playing after upkeep patch. People also stopped playing when certain weapons were nerfed. When armor looms were nerfed. People will always find some dumb reason to stop playing this wonderful game.

Then they'll try something else, play it for awhile (while still being active on forums saying how their new game rocks and how cRPG sucks) and... at the end they'll come back to cRPG. Because cRPG has no alternative if you're true gamer.

Haha, I don't even know you but I love you!  :lol:
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 10:07:36 pm
Are jumpshots back in EU? Its not in NA. I miss jumpshots, if you were good you could jump over a shielder and shoot him in the face.

It's bad enough when chestacles does it with his war darts.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Tanken on June 21, 2012, 10:10:49 pm
Bye game.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 21, 2012, 10:14:41 pm
Bye game.

You're staying until you give me the +3 Cased Greaves that I lent to you back.  :evil:
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 21, 2012, 10:16:30 pm
You're staying until you give me the +3 Cased Greaves that I lent to you back.  :evil:

sorry, he is already gone.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 21, 2012, 10:57:31 pm
Haha, I don't even know you but I love you!  :lol:
I can never get enough of your avatar.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 21, 2012, 11:00:02 pm
sorry, he is already gone.

Bah.

Oh yeah, almost forgot...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: PieParadox on June 21, 2012, 11:01:57 pm
Everyone should become a thrower now!!

e: What Saul was saying about bunnyhopping and (accidentally added by a bug) skiing in Tribes is very true. I almost never fall for the tricks where a 2h will miss you with an overhead and drag it to your feet, or a stab that they miss you but manage to drag onto you. It just seems so obvious now. But these tricks are useful against newer players. If I get hit by it, it's obviously my own fault.
In ANY game, the player who understands the game mechanics more will often be better.

It seems most people in this thread just want "realistic" swinging and blocking. As in simple attack and blocking situations and no trickery or deception. IMO one of the most intense things in this game is fighting multiple opponents at once and killing them all without taking a single scratch. This requires some "trickery" however.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Darkkarma on June 21, 2012, 11:03:41 pm

NA Drama threads are fun
Why do I feel so dirty though...

Probably because you're making a much bigger deal out of this then there needs to be.

There is a difference between discussing a patch and starting drama.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,22285.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,22285.0.html)
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,31841.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,31841.0.html)

^^^ Actual drama threads.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,34436.0/topicseen.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,34436.0/topicseen.html)

Nvm go to this thread.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Smoothrich on June 21, 2012, 11:09:27 pm
wheres the polestagger removal

you wouldve had triple the page count by now if poleswagger was gone

(plz throw in the 1/3 ranged nerf again too, and the terribly designed polestagger on the cavalry rider whenever you bumped someone)
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: SixThumbs on June 21, 2012, 11:23:37 pm
But Smoothrich, the horse bumping bumping the rider was a mistake, remember!?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Lichen on June 21, 2012, 11:28:46 pm
Some fights now are simply about who gets bored first, not about who actually outplays the other.
I'm not really in to melee much anymore and maybe that's why. I'm not the best blocker at all (nor do I care to be) but sometimes it's like I WANT to lose just to get it over with. It's like melee has to use any and all tricks just to get a hit in now and it's boring and tedious when you have to do that EVERY time you fight. Shielders are even worse, doing feint after feint but they are so slow and predictable I want to take a nap just watching. Melee is boring, tedious and very stale now.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Mancen on June 22, 2012, 12:13:49 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


lol

I watched Ironclad again for the 400th time, I didn't see any spin stabbing?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: duurrr on June 22, 2012, 12:27:37 am
I'm not really in to melee much anymore and maybe that's why. I'm not the best blocker at all (nor do I care to be) but sometimes it's like I WANT to lose just to get it over with. It's like melee has to use any and all tricks just to get a hit in now and it's boring and tedious when you have to do that EVERY time you fight. Shielders are even worse, doing feint after feint but they are so slow and predictable I want to take a nap just watching. Melee is boring, tedious and very stale now.
crpg has done nothing but make melee more predictable and boring and slow and bad

since they nerfed wpf stacking through gen, combat got slow, then lowered the speed on almost every melee weapon, then changed the animation for stabbing because it took skill, then made it so you bounce on the ground so you cant feint as much, dsofhasiodfhasdifhai fuck all of you
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: jbratina on June 22, 2012, 12:31:30 am
Initial impression of anit-lol stab feature -
Ugh. Hate it on so many levels.
Rather get lol stabbed by Hudson then gimp everything.
I'd rather watch the Sosarian Knight slaughter a group then see him sitting at the back like a camp follower.
Honestly, I'd rather get dick slapped by one of Dasty's spinning jump spins.
This new patch is stupid, take it off now, awlpikes are useless, might as well take them off the game. My weapons are slower, and cant stab, no spinning, what is this update? Are you kidding me?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on June 22, 2012, 12:35:53 am
lol everyone is on community hahaha
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: bilwit on June 22, 2012, 12:42:56 am
lol everyone is on community hahaha

Because the NA servers are such a piece of shit they crash for 5 hours at a time every day like NA1 right now.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Sauce on June 22, 2012, 02:55:23 am
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Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: POOPHAMMER on June 22, 2012, 03:12:51 am
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,32887.0.html

suckers
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: JasonPastman on June 22, 2012, 03:27:15 am
When it comes to making the game more realistic, getting rid of lawl stabbing is really the first thing to be done. Should also help to nerf the awlpike which is somewhat OP.

Now just nerf range and we'll be just fine.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Formless on June 22, 2012, 03:45:54 am
Melee feels a bit slower, anyone else got this or am I just imagining it.

Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 22, 2012, 05:14:19 am
Melee feels a bit slower, anyone else got this or am I just imagining it.
I'd have to say you are not imagining this.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Swaggart on June 22, 2012, 05:14:45 am
I love how people are saying the game got so much more realistic.

Like the game had any semblance of realism to begin with.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Tanken on June 22, 2012, 05:15:56 am
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,32887.0.html

suckers

Really beginning to hate you sabotaging your clan leaders.

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Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 22, 2012, 05:18:29 am
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,32887.0.html

suckers

Best NA troll ever. I even thought it was a good idea at the time and voted "Yes."

I feel so sad that I helped bring about this madness... WHY DID THE DEVS HAVE TO TAKE A POOPHAMMER THREAD SERIOUSLY!? WHY!?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: SittingBull on June 22, 2012, 05:25:36 am
Let me explain how the special niche of polearms that I play got completely decimated.

Now, removing the spin-stab for most people won't affect them. 2h'ers still have their powerful swings and overheads - same with 4 directional polearms. Longer  2 directional polearms (pikes, long spears, bamboo spears, etc) have now correctly been nerfed to where they're purely support weapons (I have a MW Bamboo Spear). Luckily, the long reach of these weapons allows them to still be massively effective as support weapons, and terrible in close range combat (as it probably should be).

However, it seems like a very, very small niche of polearms - those with short-range, 2-directional polearms have been rendered nearly useless. My MW BattleFork, unlike other polearms, doesn't have powerful side swings or over-heads to rely on. Nor does this weapon have the reach to be an effective, fully support type weapon - most 2h swords will outreach me. I noticed early on using this weapon that in close-combat the BattleFork would glance very often on people unless I had the full weapon length distance between us. To combat this problem I used spins to get some speed in my swing in close combat, so that my fork would not glance. Now however, the vast majority of my thrusts have glanced off of players that I'm fighting. I can't get too close, or I'll glance. I can't get too far, or they'll outreach me. The room of my forks effectiveness is confined to a very small area, the distance would have to be nearly perfect.

Playing on Siege and Battle today, I've been completely discouraged. The weapon that I love to use has been reduced to nothing but a regular pitch fork pretty much, and if you take the polestun away from it (one of the very few advantages it has left), you render the weapon entirely useless.

Just my two cents on this whole nerf. I didn't feel polearms of all classes were that over-bearing to deserve a double nerf, and if both go through then short-range 2-directional polearms will need a bump somewhere.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Tanken on June 22, 2012, 05:33:55 am
Just to follow up with what SittingBull said..

I initially thought the nerf would completely render my Long Spear useless. Well, not entirely, but I'll get to that in a second. Swiss Halberd, Warfork, and a few other short-range 2-direction weapons like SittingBull said are pretty much useless right now. Sosarian Knight has used his Swiss Halberd for like 5 Generations and was mortified today when he couldn't really do shit. The major problem with the reduction to spins is how telegraphed our attacks are now. We don't necessarily have the ability to feint with these weapons, so our feints always consisted of turning away and spinning back in. Now, for Sosarian, he attacks, chambers, spins, but can't release during the spin, he has to face them head on and release.

You can still spin-stab, just throwing that out there, but it is entirely too telegraphed and as if blocking down against a 1-direction spear thrust wasn't already easy enough, it just got a whole hell of a lot easier. My attacks consist of A) Over the teammate's shoulder, but wait! Gotta time that perfectly, I've only got 10 degrees of motion to avoid stabbing them in the back of the head. B) Stabbing at someone head on, oh, they can block down? Who'da thunk it. C) Chamber attack, jump away, spin 180-360 degrees in the air, but sure as hell can't release anytime sooner because my feet have to be on the ground to do it. Oh what's that? You saw the whole thing? Yeah, block down, it ain't hard.

I feel as though Long Spear is still -playable- to an extent, but give it 2-3 more days and its 3 telegraphed moves it now has will be learned and defended by everyone, whereas before a skilled spearman would have 5-7 viable moves. The halberds and forks and awfulpikes got the nerf a little harder though, unless they too can learn how to perfectly telegraph their shit.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: robert_namo on June 22, 2012, 06:08:36 am
you know when a nodachi sucks when people want to trade for it and ask for thousands of gold over it.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: OpenPalm on June 22, 2012, 06:23:09 am
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Hottest popcorn gif I have ever seen.  I am going to use this from now on.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 22, 2012, 06:26:31 am
Hottest popcorn gif I have ever seen.  I am going to use this from now on.

Yeah. That is. This is my closest attempt.
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Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: POOPHAMMER on June 22, 2012, 06:28:41 am
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Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 22, 2012, 06:32:20 am
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Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: San on June 22, 2012, 07:31:39 am
I feel sorry for those who used to helicopter with overheads and stabs. (As 1h) Overheads I can still hit sometimes, but it is definitely trickier.

Hoplite you definitely can't 1v1 much too well now since it's harder to fake people out, but in 2+ against 1, it is still quite good.

I think that the rotation nerf is overall not really needed, but it's not difficult to spin before release if you make a conscious effort. You can't just expect to get the swing/stab in first if your opponent notices. The glancing thing can be fixed but that is also a problem for getting accurate hits. Melee doesn't seem all that faster/slower to me from the perspective of someone who didn't really do all that stuff much outside of hoplite.

Overall it seems like a hindrance instead of a fix. It can be worked around easily enough, but I don't see the point other than that the stabs/overhead are a little more predictable now. I wouldn't call it a complete success (of "lolstab" nerf) since it messes with multiple other factors. Ex: This rotation limit could've been implemented only during a jump and would have fixed the most ridiculous scenarios with long spears and just fixing the 2h stab animation itself, maybe greatsword only. I liked the halfswording but more pierce idea on the suggestions board, too.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on June 22, 2012, 10:29:19 am
For hopolites and other uni directional attacking pole arms the trick will be if they can get 2 stabs, a high and low stab. If they can then they will be nice and useful again, but with out all that hateful bullshit grrrr polestager grrrr!
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 22, 2012, 05:24:33 pm
I feel sorry for those who used to helicopter with overheads and stabs. (As 1h) Overheads I can still hit sometimes, but it is definitely trickier.

I would assume some of that comes from the fact that the steel pick is so short, so people can get out of your range fairly quickly.

Having played about a million xp last night as 2h, it is certainly different. The hardest part isn't as much that stabs were nerfed that hard, but that I was still trying to do things from before the patch which led to a lot of missed stabs and getting hit. It was somewhat funny watching everyone attempting to stab people and coming up short. Playstyles will surely change in the next coming days/weeks. It is also important to note that the sword of war gets a lot better, since it isn't primarily a stabbing weapon but still has the ability to do so + as anyone that has watched Cy play, you can hilt slash pretty well with it.

The part that bothers me is that this change is a buff to cav, which they certainly didn't need.

Edit: Regardless of how much worse 2h/polearms are now, the part that matters to me is that its less fun. Also, would it be possible to have this effect the battle server but not the duel server? (without it effecting strat I guess?)
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 22, 2012, 05:31:53 pm
A couple more observations...

If you are out of position, you are likely to pay more for it now (i.e. die). That may fall under 'working as intended'. I'm sure people will adapt, maybe after a week we'll have provided enough data (i.e. whining) for cmp to make further adjustments.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Artyem on June 22, 2012, 07:18:11 pm
Yeah. That is. This is my closest attempt.
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You. Sick. Bastard...
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Visconti on June 22, 2012, 11:34:00 pm
I just want to know why they nerfed the overheads as well? I never had a problem with people turning with overheads, i didnt see anyone complaining about it on the forums. It was already the slowest swing out of all 4 attack directions. Now, it feels like i only have 2 viable swings, which are the side swings. If the enemy is constantly running to your sides, its impossible to land an overhead or a stab, and if you do get a stab off, its easy for them to block so you just get weapon stunned. Melee feels incredibly simple and awkward atm, wish the devs would think some of these things through before drastically changing such core mechanics in the game.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: SittingBull on June 22, 2012, 11:54:05 pm
It was already the slowest swing out of all 4 attack directions. Now, it feels like i only have 2 viable swings, which are the side swings.

Imagine how 2directional users feel.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Wraist on June 22, 2012, 11:59:30 pm
I like this change to polearms =D, the stab sweet spot adjustment is very nice.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Mechanix on June 23, 2012, 12:05:00 am
When polestun is removed..

God help us all.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Tanken on June 23, 2012, 12:15:25 am
I just want to know why they nerfed the overheads as well? I never had a problem with people turning with overheads, i didnt see anyone complaining about it on the forums. It was already the slowest swing out of all 4 attack directions. Now, it feels like i only have 2 viable swings, which are the side swings. If the enemy is constantly running to your sides, its impossible to land an overhead or a stab, and if you do get a stab off, its easy for them to block so you just get weapon stunned. Melee feels incredibly simple and awkward atm, wish the devs would think some of these things through before drastically changing such core mechanics in the game.

Because the devs don't know how to fix turn speed without fucking up everything.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Smoothrich on June 23, 2012, 12:16:55 am
I think it should be reduced a bit, and a bit more for overheads, sound concept, a bit awkward implementation, overheads are too shitty right now
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Leshma on June 23, 2012, 12:22:26 am
So... are NA servers shutting down or not? Are you all leaving cRPG? Or should I ask the same question a week later when you get used to new situation?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Malaclypse on June 23, 2012, 12:23:39 am
Seems really easy to dodge polearm overheads now.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Mechanix on June 23, 2012, 12:41:11 am
Yes, overhead is basically useless because you can just move to the sides and the speed reduction makes it impossible to follow.

Thrust is fine, but I've noticed ever since the patch that I rarely overhead, if ever.
I was on the duel server for a little over an hour and someone pointed out that I never overhead. The attack is basically a deathwish since the patch.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Visconti on June 23, 2012, 12:46:37 am
Yes, overhead is basically useless because you can just move to the sides and the speed reduction makes it impossible to follow.

Thrust is fine, but I've noticed ever since the patch that I rarely overhead, if ever.
I was on the duel server for a little over an hour and someone pointed out that I never overhead. The attack is basically a deathwish since the patch.

Same with stabs, you either miss, glance, or they block and you get stunned. As i said, 2 viable attack directions in a fight since the patch
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Smoothrich on June 23, 2012, 12:52:44 am
i don't mind the thrust being nerfed a bit in 1 vs 1s, though its funny to go on duel and see people hopelessly thrusting at each other, i think the thrust has a LOT of utlity on 2handers and polearms in battle as a feint combo or a 2hander reach control/gank/anti cav, still has a lot of viability

the overhead is what i used the most with 2 handers, to avoid team hits in close quarters and hit lots of heavy damage, and found it pretty shitty to use, i think the overhead radius should go up to 180 instead of 90, and stabs go to maybe 120?  or be left alone.  my 2 cents
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Huey Newton on June 23, 2012, 01:06:07 am
make game turn based strategy for ultimate balance
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Mordand on June 23, 2012, 01:11:11 am
make game turn based strategy for ultimate balance


thats what they are trying to do duh

melee combat is slow and predictable.  Might as well have everybody just stand still and fight...
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Miley on June 23, 2012, 01:35:29 am
make game turn based strategy for ultimate balance

Is that Enrique?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Smoothrich on June 23, 2012, 01:37:51 am
make game turn based strategy for ultimate balance

play stronghold kingdoms with me, poophammer, badplayer, sequel, shik, world 3, ireland, county leitrim.

its like strategus but 10000x better and we need more people to grief shithead polacks that ruin ireland for us and razed me my first week and eventually invade wales and scotland
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Shatter on June 23, 2012, 01:54:48 am
Spin stabs are a part of the game. They are not a "glitch" or "abuse," but just a tactic in the game. Are people that are turning into their swings abusing some kind of broken game mechanic? No, they are just playing the game.

What is the reason for the nerf? Realism? There are tons of things that are unrealistic in this game. Why would you choose to take out something and lower the complexity of the game?

I still don't know what is trying to be fixed with this nerf other than to completely throw off the balance of the game or to make the game easier.

I could understand a change that added complexity to the game and threw off balance. It could be fixed over time and the game in the long run could be better. But throwing off balance and removing complexity doesn't seem like the right decision.



Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Huey Newton on June 23, 2012, 01:58:22 am
play stronghold kingdoms with me, poophammer, badplayer, sequel, shik, world 3, ireland, county leitrim.

its like strategus but 10000x better and we need more people to grief shithead polacks that ruin ireland for us and razed me my first week and eventually invade wales and scotland

I just might.
I've been M2tw lately and somehow managed to get every christian nation to go to war with me, while having 6 islamic allies.
(i'm playing as venice)  :shock:



Also
they need to make a game with Europa universalis's diplomacy/policy shit, M2tw large scale battles and city/castle management and Warband's combat system.
And lets throw in 10 person online co-op as well.
Now that would be a game.

P.s. don't really care about how they change crpg at this point. I'm still gonna kill a metric fuckton of people cause cav is hard
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Smoothrich on June 23, 2012, 02:09:45 am
INCOMING ESSAY ON GAME DESIGN/CRITIQUE OF CHANGES

The nerf was a big part because on eu servers, the dominant 2handers are german danish and greatswords with agi heavy builds, that probably abuse the living shit out of the stab while backpedaling and spinning and you don't see it so often on NA

One thing I really like that it stopped, is some of the bullshit 360s people did with pikes, halberds, etc.  sorry to people like tanken and sosarian_knight, you guys are awesome players (lol at sosarian using a great long bardiche, not so lol at tanken wanting to quit the game) but you guys are some of the best examples of abusing the animation system for unfair advantages compared to more orothodox players.

What you guys did was go 30/9 or even more extreme builds, which should punish people for not being able to establish proper range control against enemies engaging them in 1 vs 1s, good builds to be in a frontal line and supporting people, but easily overwhelmed or beaten by someone like a fast 2 hander or shielder.  However with the way it was before, you could effectively, as you've done to me and many other playes countless times, start up an attack and do a 360 jump backwards, forcing glances as you spun in heavy armor with 10 if and no weapon master, and landing a perfect, extremely high damaging piercing attack regardless of distance.  You were using the game mechanics to pretty much bypass the implied balance by weapon types and builds and I don't think the crpg devs were happy about this, and saw the Warband engine as being against their idea for smooth and balanced medieval gameplay.

I can understand you Tristan and Sauce in not thinking they should mess with Warband native mechanics too much, but cmp as a programmer, chadz as a task manager/also programmer and the rest of the team have really made cRPG their own baby, and cmp's amazing work as a programmer is enabling them to interpret melee combat as they would build a game, but are still stuck using Warband as their framework.

Native still exists to get all the urges out (old lancing angles baby) but I know people are too attached to their characters in cRPG to really want to give it up entirely if they like this kind of game.

So I respect the effort and design concepts the team are using, more work than I've seen in cRPG in the past few months then since the gen/exp system overhaul a year and a half ago, and think you guys are one of the most talented mod teams I've seen, even if this game has a pretty limited base of players.

But I do think, at LEAST the overhead angles, should be broaded a bit.  Its as restrictive as you made lancing, which I argued  at the time should've been broadened a bit, was told that it wasn't capable with old WSE, and now realize that the game is much more balanced for it and wouldn't want to change it (if anything cav needs more nerfs lol)

But the overhead nerf is really impeding some of the fluidity of the gameplay, it feels not so different from the effects of polestagger when you do an overhead.  Overheading was easy enough to miss before, and you had to track your target after you released the animation to not leave yourself a big open target.  This was doubly true when you added the weapon stun after connecting to the ground if you miss.  The reduced turning angle of overheads, coupled with the weapon stun when colliding with the map, I think ends up too great of a nerf to melee combat, not leaving it more balanced but instead making it just less fun and WAY too much risk to overhead which is the superior attack for group fighting/support (which you people should be encouraging!)

So my evaluation, so far, is that I understand the intent behind it, agree with the concept, but think it was just a little too dramatic and would be happier with a broader turn radius for overheads.

edit:  on second thought, I think the main problem is the speed which you can pivot while doing an overhead, not the radius.  I think better balance will be achieved by increasing acceleration while keeping a similar restriction on the angles you can turn into, much like lancing.

I just might.
I've been M2tw lately and somehow managed to get every christian nation to go to war with me, while having 6 islamic allies.
(i'm playing as venice)  :shock:



Also
they need to make a game with Europa universalis's diplomacy/policy shit, M2tw large scale battles and city/castle management and Warband's combat system.
And lets throw in 10 person online co-op as well.
Now that would be a game.

P.s. don't really care about how they change crpg at this point. I'm still gonna kill a metric fuckton of people cause cav is hard

Hit me up on Steam if you decide to give Stronghold a shot, so I can give you a referral and some pro tips.  Even Thax started playing as my vassal haha.

You saw me playing cav for the first time in months on a skip the fun character since I could put my champ desti and lance on it.  18/24 8 riding pure cav build.  35 kills my very first map after 4 rounds and not playing cav in seriously 4-6 months.  What a joke lmao
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Leshma on June 23, 2012, 02:12:49 am
Spin stabs are a part of the game. They are not a "glitch" or "abuse," but just a tactic in the game. Are people that are turning into their swings abusing some kind of broken game mechanic? No, they are just playing the game.

Spin stabs are possible because people who made this game either had no time to implement intertia or were just lazy. Thefore, human movement is just like in every other game, unrealistic. It doesn't fit well with many other aspects of this game which are very realistic compared to other video games.

I do understand that spin stab is "skilled" move or trick but it's simply not realistic. It's like something from Quake 3 Arena or Tribes. It takes skill to perfect but you'll never see any fighter irl fighting like that.

This game is built to be realistic medieval battle simulator. They couldn't make everything they wanted to so we have to live with certain badly done mechanics. Cmp is trying to fix that, nothing more.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Digglez on June 23, 2012, 02:33:22 am
Seems really easy to dodge polearm overheads now.

OMG, just like it would be in REALITY?

Probably the best patch I've seen from the perspective of a 1h/shielder.  Getting rid of half of the stupid game breaking mechanic shenanigans that veteran players used to shit on noobs.  OMG fights last longer? You might have to USE TEAMWORK in a multiplayer game?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: TugBoat on June 23, 2012, 02:37:53 am
OMG, just like it would be in REALITY?

Probably the best patch I've seen from the perspective of a 1h/shielder.  Getting rid of half of the stupid game breaking mechanic shenanigans that veteran players used to shit on noobs.  OMG fights last longer? You might have to USE TEAMWORK in a multiplayer game?

I'm having trouble following agility characters by swinging overheads because I can't even turn my body fast enough to meet them. Unrealistic.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Shatter on June 23, 2012, 02:40:05 am
Spin stabs are possible because people who made this game either had no time to implement intertia or were just lazy. Thefore, human movement is just like in every other game, unrealistic. It doesn't fit well with many other aspects of this game which are very realistic compared to other video games.

I do understand that spin stab is "skilled" move or trick but it's simply not realistic. It's like something from Quake 3 Arena or Tribes. It takes skill to perfect but you'll never see any fighter irl fighting like that.

This game is built to be realistic medieval battle simulator. They couldn't make everything they wanted to so we have to live with certain badly done mechanics. Cmp is trying to fix that, nothing more.
I'm okay with the game trying to be as realistic as possible. But, I would hope the actual gameplay comes first before absolute realism. Where do you draw the line between realism and unrealistic features that make gameplay better? Should certain weapons have a chance of getting stuck in armor? Should lances break on couch? Should getting hit by a full speed horse kill you or at least do significantly more damage than it does?

Personally, I play this game because I love the gameplay and the mechanics. All the work the cRPG devs have put into this game has significantly increased the quality and longevity of the game. I just hope the actual gameplay is the priority and not making it into a "medieval battle simulator."
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: bruce on June 23, 2012, 02:48:58 am
Should certain weapons have a chance of getting stuck in armor?

Maybe, if well done.

Should lances break on couch?

Yes, also on prolonged use of any sort.

Should getting hit by a full speed horse kill you or at least do significantly more damage than it does?

Yes, definitely. And zero-inertia infantry is lols. (then again, so is the maneuver of the agile horse line) However, a real (unarmoured, and armoured even) horse won't merrily gallop around with a arbalest bolt in its flank. And running into a chambered weapon should hurt like hell. Running into a chambered spear should count as a couch against the horse (it's actually done in 1257 AD and it is epic).
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Smoothrich on June 23, 2012, 02:49:28 am
I'm having trouble following agility characters by swinging overheads because I can't even turn my body fast enough to meet them. Unrealistic.

Its difficult to track because to enable the degree reduction in your turning, they simply greatly reduced the acceleration of your spinning (so it seems to me.)  Perhaps if you want to enable a certain degree radius in turning during a weapon swing, you could accomplish it with some kind of limit (like lancing), instead of reducing the acceleration/speed of your turn?  People who I keep in front of me and try to overhead in a group fight or duel, it feels like the engine of the game is fighting against the player instead of enabling the player to execute pretty simple moves.

And I repeat, along with missing overheads, the fact that you get stunned to shit when you hit the ground makes this a bit bigger nerf to melee than I would like.

Basically I think you guys need to focus on making support attacks/weapons (like long ass weapons and long ass pokes on swords) be less effective in 1 vs 1s without establishing proper reach before you attack, but not being able to effectively compensate for random erratic player movements after beginning your animation is kind of lame and clumsy. 

My playstyle has evolved to use great swords in mostly a support role, trying to flank and sneak in overheads on people out of position or mid duel with other people, taking pressure off teammates, killing cav with the stab, padding my KD with killsteals, and using a weapon that I like in 1 vs 1 situations well enough (which the greatswords honestly aren't the best at, notice the dominance of longsword in NA weapon statistics).  The patch hasn't nerfed me THAT bad, but the 2 handed overhand animation was one of my favorite "finishers" in Warband, easy to feint into, and you need to be able to track your target to make it land.  Just increase turning speed a bit please.

Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Shatter on June 23, 2012, 02:52:34 am
Should certain weapons have a chance of getting stuck in armor?

Maybe, if well done.

Should lances break on couch?

Yes, also on prolonged use of any sort.

Should getting hit by a full speed horse kill you or at least do significantly more damage than it does?

Yes. However, a real (unarmoured, and armoured even) horse won't merrily gallop around with a arbalest bolt in its flank. And running into a chambered weapon should hurt like hell. Running into a chambered spear should count as a couch against the horse (it's actually done in 1257 AD and it is epic).
It's fine that you think those changes should happen. They are more realistic. But would they make for a better game? Weapons breaking, getting stuck, instant killed by horses just makes the game more random, so I would argue that they would make the game worse. It all comes down to where the devs draw the line between gameplay and realism.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: POOPHAMMER on June 23, 2012, 02:56:57 am
play stronghold kingdoms with me, poophammer, badplayer, sequel, shik, world 3, ireland, county leitrim.

its like strategus but 10000x better and we need more people to grief shithead polacks that ruin ireland for us and razed me my first week and eventually invade wales and scotland

If anyone does take up this offer and moves into Leitrim hit me up and I will be your lord which is pretty important to have, especially someone of my rank

dont let badplayer be your lord or else you will get razed on day 4 lmao (ask smoothrich all about it)
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Smoothrich on June 23, 2012, 03:55:32 am
If anyone does take up this offer and moves into Leitrim hit me up and I will be your lord which is pretty important to have, especially someone of my rank

dont let badplayer be your lord or else you will get razed on day 4 lmao (ask smoothrich all about it)

We do want some of the cool crpg players to start playing with us, its honestly a lot like the Strategus they tried to make in 3.0 but a lot better (no offense, some of the dev team should actually check out stronghold kingdoms for inspiration for the future, shik is playing it too).

The more players we get in cahoots with us, the stronger faction we can make, and all help each other out.  Its free to play, doesn't require much time but pretty addicting and fun to get your fiefs growing strong and mass producing shit, trading, building a castle, raids, sieges, its kind of like farmville but a lot more depth, and the world is open ended for griefing, complete razing of villages.. the only thing that can protect ur precious farms and mines is your own army and your faction bros.

Maybe I'll make a thread about it in Other Games to help organize shit, I think a lot of the players here like games like europa and Strategus and it could become popular with this community.

And POOPHAMMER is right.  If BADPLAYER, the bundle of sticks banqueter with a shit army and no respect, is your liege lord, you will probably get razed within days and have to start over.

Sequel is actually the leader of our faction (nK lol) and POOPHAMMER is a pr0 baron dude with mad shit, check it out yall
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Penitent on June 23, 2012, 03:56:02 am
Actually, now trying it for a while it might not be that bad.  You can still twist with overhead and thrust attacks pretty fast within a cone in front of you.  I think it will take more time to try.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 23, 2012, 04:00:32 am
Quote
Spin stabs are possible because people who made this game either had no time to implement intertia or were just lazy.
Limits on turning speed were intentionally implemented in the beta for sideswings. Thrusts also gained a slight turning rate limit. Those limits were intentionally set low.

Quote
Getting rid of half of the stupid game breaking mechanic shenanigans that veteran players used to shit on noobs.
New players *should* die quickly when facing a more experienced opponent. That's what the duel server is there for - building up person skill.

Quote
OMG fights last longer?
They already lasted a silly-long time between experienced players. All this does is make it even easier to drag a fight out.

Mistakes in a fight should be very easy to make, and making them should kill you. Melee should not be forgiving, and should require a large amount of dedication.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: POOPHAMMER on June 23, 2012, 04:29:20 am
We do want some of the cool crpg players to start playing with us, its honestly a lot like the Strategus they tried to make in 3.0 but a lot better (no offense, some of the dev team should actually check out stronghold kingdoms for inspiration for the future, shik is playing it too).

The more players we get in cahoots with us, the stronger faction we can make, and all help each other out.  Its free to play, doesn't require much time but pretty addicting and fun to get your fiefs growing strong and mass producing shit, trading, building a castle, raids, sieges, its kind of like farmville but a lot more depth, and the world is open ended for griefing, complete razing of villages.. the only thing that can protect ur precious farms and mines is your own army and your faction bros.

Maybe I'll make a thread about it in Other Games to help organize shit, I think a lot of the players here like games like europa and Strategus and it could become popular with this community.

And POOPHAMMER is right.  If BADPLAYER, the bundle of sticks banqueter with a shit army and no respect, is your liege lord, you will probably get razed within days and have to start over.

Sequel is actually the leader of our faction (nK lol) and POOPHAMMER is a pr0 baron dude with mad shit, check it out yall

I am not a Baron you bundle of sticks, I am a Viscount about 2 ranks away from hitting Earl, and once I hit Earl I am hauling my ass to take over Wales
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 23, 2012, 04:29:33 am
play stronghold kingdoms with me, poophammer, badplayer, sequel, shik, world 3, ireland, county leitrim.

I've heard some good things about the game, I might start playing it.

Of course you cool dudes probably wouldn't want my excessive gayness. It might be too much for you.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: POOPHAMMER on June 23, 2012, 04:33:24 am
I've heard some good things about the game, I might start playing it.

Of course you cool dudes probably wouldn't want my excessive gayness. It might be too much for you.

Hit me up on Steam if you need help figuring out where to spawn to be near us and I can also help you with w/e else
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Visconti on June 23, 2012, 05:06:20 am
Spin stabs are possible because people who made this game either had no time to implement intertia or were just lazy. Thefore, human movement is just like in every other game, unrealistic. It doesn't fit well with many other aspects of this game which are very realistic compared to other video games.

I do understand that spin stab is "skilled" move or trick but it's simply not realistic. It's like something from Quake 3 Arena or Tribes. It takes skill to perfect but you'll never see any fighter irl fighting like that.

This game is built to be realistic medieval battle simulator. They couldn't make everything they wanted to so we have to live with certain badly done mechanics. Cmp is trying to fix that, nothing more.

Because blocking my great sword with a wooden stick is realistic right? or taking damage from a sword in plate? Or only having 4 attack options? I can go on and on, but my point is, this game might be realistic with the type of armor/weapons, but when it comes to game mechanics and balancing, realism needs to be thrown out the window. Spin stab, as canary said, is a technique that players learn to give them more attack options. An easy one to counter as well, simply block down till you hear the blocking sound, and you will weapon stun the person stabbing, probably killing him. If you want to look at it from a realism point of view (which you shouldn't) you wouldn't only have 4 directions in which to attack, you wouldnt stab the exact same way everytime you wanted to stab. Spinstabs offered another way to attack someone. This is something that doesn't need to be fixed, (except maybe on the jumping longspears) but all cmp has done is make stabs and overheads nearly useless, further dumbing down the combat.

Also, on a side note, in the beta, spin stab was there and was a recognized mechanic. Players complained about it then, and the devs left it in.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 23, 2012, 05:27:57 am
We do want some of the cool crpg players to start playing with us, its honestly a lot like the Strategus they tried to make in 3.0 but a lot better (no offense, some of the dev team should actually check out stronghold kingdoms for inspiration for the future, shik is playing it too).

The more players we get in cahoots with us, the stronger faction we can make, and all help each other out.  Its free to play, doesn't require much time but pretty addicting and fun to get your fiefs growing strong and mass producing shit, trading, building a castle, raids, sieges, its kind of like farmville but a lot more depth, and the world is open ended for griefing, complete razing of villages.. the only thing that can protect ur precious farms and mines is your own army and your faction bros.

Maybe I'll make a thread about it in Other Games to help organize shit, I think a lot of the players here like games like europa and Strategus and it could become popular with this community.

And POOPHAMMER is right.  If BADPLAYER, the bundle of sticks banqueter with a shit army and no respect, is your liege lord, you will probably get razed within days and have to start over.

Sequel is actually the leader of our faction (nK lol) and POOPHAMMER is a pr0 baron dude with mad shit, check it out yall

I wonder if my kingdoms account is still active. I was pretty high in rank. Then my comp didn't want to run it.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Tagora on June 23, 2012, 06:35:35 am
I'm not reading 13 pages.  This patch blows. Poll thread needs poll.

I've been using 2h for 2 yrs mang.  I ain't going to change my ways for dis.  Duel is terrible now and I can't wait to play battle with 500 chargers that I can't stab anymore (and no one else can). 
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Sauce on June 23, 2012, 06:44:54 am

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zaren on June 23, 2012, 06:55:09 am
to be perfectly honest, all the complaints about this game being hard to learn and terrible for noobs are invalid. IT SHOULD BE hard for noobs, and Melee mistakes should hurt badly. Melee is simply becoming....
player1:hello i will attempt to hit you VERY SLOWLY
player2: thanks! ill now take my time and use my 10 seconds i have till you hit me to block
player1:I think ill stab now!
player2:Don't bother! stab is useless
player1:ok then ill overhead/sideswing again! and again and again

i mean really.... this game is OBVIOUSLY not realistic at all or there would be bleeding out and broken bones or cuts that hindered you, its not supposed to be like that. please stop trying to nerf CRPG combat into no skill-feels like im fighting in thick jelly combat.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: SeQuel on June 23, 2012, 06:59:30 am
I wonder if my kingdoms account is still active. I was pretty high in rank. Then my comp didn't want to run it.

Your account gets deleted after being inactive for so long so it's gone most likely.

I'm the best stronghold player in the world and all of these noobs are my vassals.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Visconti on June 23, 2012, 07:11:01 am
to be perfectly honest, all the complaints about this game being hard to learn and terrible for noobs are invalid. IT SHOULD BE hard for noobs, and Melee mistakes should hurt badly. Melee is simply becoming....
player1:hello i will attempt to hit you VERY SLOWLY
player2: thanks! ill now take my time and use my 10 seconds i have till you hit me to block
player1:I think ill stab now!
player2:Don't bother! stab is useless
player1:ok then ill overhead/sideswing again! and again and again

i mean really.... this game is OBVIOUSLY not realistic at all or there would be bleeding out and broken bones or cuts that hindered you, its not supposed to be like that. please stop trying to nerf CRPG combat into no skill-feels like im fighting in thick jelly combat.

Pft, player 1 knows nothing, overheads are near useless as well  :D
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Artyem on June 23, 2012, 08:09:04 am
ZISA'S TEARS ARE LIKE FINE WINE

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zaren on June 23, 2012, 08:47:02 am
Pft, player 1 knows nothing, overheads are near useless as well  :D
made me lol......lol
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: BashirKhan on June 23, 2012, 09:59:28 am
I lol'd at someone calling this game a "Realistic Medieval Battle Simulator" it's anything but.

as Saul said earlier

Blocking a great axe with a 1h is absurd. Surviving getting hit by charging cav is absurd. Blocking every conceivable attack from one direction (especially stabs) by holding your weapon in a fixed position is absurd. Getting hurt with the edge of a sword while in plate is absurd.

And yet, the game is better off for every single one of those things.
I completely agree with the above statement. I'm pretty comfortable saying that Warband and even Crpg are not meant to be realistic, in most aspects
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: cmp on June 23, 2012, 12:33:35 pm
I completely agree with the above statement. I'm pretty comfortable saying that Warband and even Crpg are not meant to be realistic, in most aspects

Thank you, but that's not for you to say.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: bruce on June 23, 2012, 12:42:34 pm
There are 500023432432 fantasy rpg sword-lol games out there. I like warband (modded warband) because it tries to be something different.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 23, 2012, 01:22:54 pm
AHAHAHAHA

FUCK YOU GUYS! CAVALRY STILL REIGNS SUPREME! YOU CANT FUCKING TOUCH ME NOW

NERF CAV!
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Leshma on June 23, 2012, 01:26:33 pm
Duel is terrible now and I can't wait to play battle with 500 chargers that I can't stab anymore (and no one else can).

I still dehorse people just fine. Even with longsword. Maybe you should try something else instead of chamber/spinstab trick most of you seem to be using :wink:
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 23, 2012, 05:41:00 pm
I'm not reading 13 pages.  This patch blows. Poll thread needs poll.

I've been using 2h for 2 yrs mang.  I ain't going to change my ways for dis.  Duel is terrible now and I can't wait to play battle with 500 chargers that I can't stab anymore (and no one else can).
Perhaps I'll put a poll up after this patch has sunk in a bit longer. Pretty sure we've covered, rather effectively, the initial rage. Since it is possible there are some results of this patch that are pleasing, I'll wait until people have suffered played a few days before pretending to be democratic with a poll.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Mechanix on June 23, 2012, 06:50:57 pm
I just hate that my overhead is incapable of tracking people now.
You can easily sidestep someones overhead if you have average footwork. This makes not only the thrust easier to block, but makes our overhead a much less viable swing.

My German Poleaxe goes from having 4 swing directions to 2 directions if I'm fighting someone that doesn't suck.
Overhead / Thrust still work for support situations and for reach but I feel that overhead shouldn't be affected by the speed nerf. It's either thrust OR overhead being slowed, don't do it to both.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Mechanix on June 23, 2012, 06:51:26 pm
I just hate that my overhead is incapable of tracking people now.
You can easily sidestep someones overhead if you have average footwork. This means the patch has not only made thrust easier to block, but makes our overhead a much less viable swing.

My German Poleaxe goes from having 4 swing directions to 2 directions if I'm fighting someone that doesn't suck.
Overhead / Thrust still work for support situations and for reach but I feel that overhead shouldn't be affected by the speed nerf. It's either thrust OR overhead being slowed, don't do it to both.

not sure why it quoted..
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Tagora on June 23, 2012, 07:57:24 pm
I still dehorse people just fine. Even with longsword. Maybe you should try something else instead of chamber/spinstab trick most of you seem to be using :wink:

haha..you know it's funny that what some player's call exploits others call tactics.  By trying to make a game more realistic, or an attempt to replicate real world physics, all you're doing is disrupting the careful balance which took months of practice and community feedback to build and pissing players off in the meantime.  There's literally nothing in cRPG (post-upkeep) that is reasonably unbeatable by every class. I find it odd that people are complaining about said realism in an RPG stat-based game.  Stat points are never representational of real-world values.  I think all this patch noticeably accomplished was a steep decline in older player's willingness to invest in a game that is subject to change based off whim.

Besides, if you suck at footwork, it doesn't matter what kind of weapon you're using.  I.E. Saul with his rerolls in 2h, 1h, pole, etc.  Chances are that if you're complaining about someone killing you in cRPG, you're doing something wrong.  Go to duel and get better.

If you're going to trouble of creating stat-points and retirement, at least don't disrupt the fundamental basis for many player's builds, because I really doubt a player like me who is light inf 2h longsword is similar to other classes/builds (tincans, old cav, etc) that were nerfed.   The fact I can stab you with that weapon reach just proves that my footwork is successful and that you're not paying enough attention.

tldr;  People who will never excel complain, game changes, people with successful strategy are nerfed and their heirlooms rendered meaningless thus the game is the same as native + content.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Vodner on June 23, 2012, 08:21:14 pm
Quote
Besides, if you suck at footwork, it doesn't matter what kind of weapon you're using.  I.E. Saul with his rerolls in 2h, 1h, pole, etc.
Now that's just mean  :(
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: BashirKhan on June 23, 2012, 08:24:17 pm
Now that's just mean  :(
Don't worry Saul we all love your footwork  :D
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Joshly on June 23, 2012, 08:51:14 pm
After playing a few days, I figure I could at least voice another opinion. Although it seems like a large majority of it is crying.

As mention before, I am glad the lolstab is gone, sometimes it was a useful tool. But in doing such is removed much other options, I'd say most notably for me in 1h. I use a 1h and shield with the espada, so I am pretty stab dependent as my damage dealer. The only problem is that when i go to stab the targeted being, they can simply step out of the way. Yeah, you can hold the attack and turn. The only problem there is it gives people more time to react, which honestly probably is not needed anyway. Yeah - you can side swing as well, but with a 1.0 weighted weapon just side swing into the amount of armor some of these people wear and see what happens(more 2h spam friendly?). 8 times out of 10 its a glance (7ps too). I personally favored the different technique of the 1h shield build I did. It was different from others, who go for a weapon with reach and just out swing.

Its something that I could get used to, but in stopping one problem comes another, where people dance around and side swing - I'm relying on the S key instead of my LMB. The patch removes the overhead and stab from a good portion of fighting, enough to voice a complaint. I'm thrilled that I won't have to deal with helicopter pikemen, but it is saddening that all the other stuff has to suffer. Is it possible to nerf the overall turn speed slightly? or perhaps also affect the side swings? or some sort of system of weapon length slowing turn speed as mentioned before? I won't complain without giving some sort of feedback for solutions, but the recent patch is indeed slightly frustrating.

Argue realism all you want, but its never why I play the game.  :wink:
-Kartoffeln
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: bruce on June 23, 2012, 08:53:55 pm
or some sort of system of weapon length slowing turn speed as mentioned before?

Cmp said it might happen, makes sense as well.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Tom Cruise on June 23, 2012, 09:13:04 pm
Soooooooooo polestagger/stun is still here?????  :evil:
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Dexxtaa on June 23, 2012, 09:35:50 pm
Soooooooooo polestagger/stun is still here?????  :evil:

Yup :(
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Tom Cruise on June 23, 2012, 10:35:42 pm
Helluva patch.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: VolpesVolpes on June 23, 2012, 11:42:16 pm
I'm with Joshy, I use a side sword and shield and most of my battles have resorted to me and the enemy running confused circles around each other trying to get our characters to turn as fast as our mouses are. I can barely even make use of my sword's thrust anymore I'm thinking of getting a cutting sword.

At least I'm almost level 31, I'm thinking of just re-rolling cavalry so i don't have to worry about this anymore.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Visconti on June 24, 2012, 01:51:44 am
I'm with Joshy, I use a side sword and shield and most of my battles have resorted to me and the enemy running confused circles around each other trying to get our characters to turn as fast as our mouses are. I can barely even make use of my sword's thrust anymore I'm thinking of getting a cutting sword.

At least I'm almost level 31, I'm thinking of just re-rolling cavalry so i don't have to worry about this anymore.

and so it begins   :cry:
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Leshma on June 24, 2012, 01:56:34 am
Cmp suggested that cav is next on the nerf list. I'm not sure did he mean it for real or just pulling our strings.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Mordand on June 24, 2012, 02:26:17 am
What is this D3.. dumb the game down till its fking shit
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Baggy on June 24, 2012, 03:16:34 am
If anyone does take up this offer and moves into Leitrim hit me up and I will be your lord which is pretty important to have, especially someone of my rank

dont let badplayer be your lord or else you will get razed on day 4 lmao (ask smoothrich all about it)
Shoulda picked Limerick.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: cmp on June 24, 2012, 03:18:49 am
Cmp suggested that cav is next on the nerf list. I'm not sure did he mean it for real or just pulling our strings.

Just trolling the cav guy.
(click to show/hide)

Shoulda picked Limerick.

+5 bonus to stabbings?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Baggy on June 24, 2012, 04:41:43 am
Among other things
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fMHms5Cvsw
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 24, 2012, 06:22:05 am
Quote
Go to duel and get better.

/thread

Or, "Go cav and get OP"
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: PieParadox on June 24, 2012, 10:07:56 pm
Stronghold kingdoms looks pretty fun.. Is there actually any fighting strategy {RTS} to it?
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Wojtek_the_Kurwa_Great on June 24, 2012, 10:32:19 pm
It's what I posted in the EU thread:

I'm not sure how hard it is to implement from a developers side...

Formulate a line that takes into consideration the length of the weapon and weight, factor in your normal stuff like wpf athletics etc, and you have your turn speed while you swing. 

The longer the weapon and weight, the slower the turn speed.   Relate to a point of inflection in calculus.  Take a meter stick and try to pivot 360 degrees holding it out,  now snap it in half and see how much faster you rotate.   If you want further examples look at figure skating when they're rotating on a point, they open their arms and go slow, bring them in and go ballistic.

I think for pikes and similar lengths/weights, the current turn speed is fine; it doesn't make sense when you have a shorter weapon like a 1h being governed by the same rules.   

I believe that:
- 1h's should be unchanged/reverted to previous version (although I have very little 1h experience, it just makes sense)
- Everything else past a certain length would need to be looked at.

my 2cents.


bundle of stickss.

Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Wraist on June 24, 2012, 11:12:04 pm
The longer the weapon and weight, the slower the turn speed.   Relate to a point of inflection in calculus.  Take a meter stick and try to pivot 360 degrees holding it out,  now snap it in half and see how much faster you rotate.

I believe that:
- 1h's should be unchanged/reverted to previous version (although I have very little 1h experience, it just makes sense)
- Everything else past a certain length would need to be looked at.

Turn speed depends on the moment of inertia of the body, which depends on the rotation axis, where the body is being rotated, mass and length.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 24, 2012, 11:22:20 pm
Not a fan of variable turn rates.
Not a fan of the turn rate nerf.

It does give agi builds a massive advantage though. I would have prefered upping the bar not dropping the lower end through the ceiling. Any slow build is pretty much fodder.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: SixThumbs on June 25, 2012, 03:53:09 am
I'm surprised you feel us under-represented, NA side anyway, agility builds don't need some sort of additional advantage besides getting the speed bonus used against us and more or less one or two shot.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 25, 2012, 05:01:08 am
I'm surprised you feel us under-represented, NA side anyway, agility builds don't need some sort of additional advantage besides getting the speed bonus used against us and more or less one or two shot.
Err, anyway you can clarify that? I'm not quite getting your point.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: SixThumbs on June 25, 2012, 02:42:41 pm
I was trying to be sarcastic saying some of the advantages to an agility build are speed bonus being used against us when we sprint into an attack or the fact that agility builds usually have less HP.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Canary on June 25, 2012, 03:51:06 pm
Put another way, the more agility and athletics you have, the faster you can get yourself killed.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Smoothrich on June 25, 2012, 04:46:10 pm
I for one enjoy that whenever someone in a 1 vs 1 fight on battle tries to overhead me with a longer weapon, my character enters The Matrix and all time slows to a crawl.  By the time their sword is above their head, I am to their side.  By the time it crashes pathetically into the ground giving them massive weapon stun, I have hilt slashed them 3-4 times either completing a 360 around their in-stasis soon to be lifeless corpse, or have literally done the Neo move of entering them, except I end by exploding out of their body with 360 spin side swing hilt slash spam, the only viable 1 vs 1 attack.

edit:  please give me 8  -1 votes so my reknown is 420
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 25, 2012, 05:20:41 pm

edit:  please give me 8  -1 votes so my reknown is 420

Take that! I gave you a +1. Also I am pretty sure -1s don't decrease reknown.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Blackzilla on June 25, 2012, 05:35:27 pm
Take that! I gave you a +1. Also I am pretty sure -1s don't decrease reknown.
They do, I messed up a post and it got -3 and my renwn went down by 1
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: LordBerenger on June 25, 2012, 05:46:05 pm
And POOPHAMMER is right.  If BADPLAYER, the bundle of sticks banqueter with a shit army and no respect, is your liege lord, you will probably get razed within days and have to start over.

Sequel is actually the leader of our faction (nK lol) and POOPHAMMER is a pr0 baron dude with mad shit, check it out yall

I want to get razed by BADPLAYER. Hard.

Anyhow seems like it got shit scores at metacritic but metacritic are gay anyhow so might check it out.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Zisa on June 26, 2012, 04:20:22 am
Put another way, the more agility and athletics you have, the faster you can get yourself killed.
Ah, well I mastered that already.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Digglez on June 26, 2012, 08:01:54 am
so far in my experience as a 1h/shielder this has been an overwhelmingly successful patch in reducing the amount of bullshit shenanigans by 2h/poles.  Its affected some of my high turn overheads/left swings, but nothing I cant deal with, knowing that there is alot less chance these guys will be able to hit me.
Title: Re: NA gets Patch
Post by: Wraist on June 26, 2012, 08:18:25 am
so far in my experience as a 1h/shielder this has been an overwhelmingly successful patch in reducing the amount of bullshit shenanigans by 2h/poles.  Its affected some of my high turn overheads/left swings, but nothing I cant deal with, knowing that there is alot less chance these guys will be able to hit me.

As a poler, I have to say that I think the current patch on NA works very well with polearms:

Spears: I used to suck ass with them since I had to turn to land a stab which is a big tell and the side swings are shit [I was better off using a cudgel with 0 wpf and low armor than a spear with 100 wpf and medium]. Now, I don't have to turn and land stabs a whole lot more

Bill: The only reason why I turned in my previous gens with a bill was because I had to. Now with the patch, I don't have to pull any bullshit [although I do back pedal and use kicks a lot more]. The only bad part is glancing at face hug range, but oh well.

Battle Fork: It's like the bill, but doesn't glance at nearly as short of a distance [as in they can be closer to me without my glancing]. I really never used it before, but I can sneak hits on people often enough, it's easier to tackle shielders with than the bill [due to shorter stab stun and a lot faster speed], and it can be pretty brutal with polestun.

I don't have too much trouble landing overheads, and when it's going to fail, I generally know that I fucked up as opposed to being surprised. The only problem I've been experiencing is when somebody hugs one of my sides [with a 2 directional] since I have no real response aside from block, block, attempt to kick. Being able to spin stab wouldn't really solve that since they can hit me before my stab even has a chance to glance. So overall, I say that this is a buff to polearms [and the polestagger removeal will be a significant nerf but oh well].