NA gets Patch

[Swaggart]

I love how people are saying the game got so much more realistic.

Like the game had any semblance of realism to begin with.

[Tanken]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,32887.0.html

suckers

Really beginning to hate you sabotaging your clan leaders.

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[TurmoilTom]

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,32887.0.html

suckers

Best NA troll ever. I even thought it was a good idea at the time and voted "Yes."

I feel so sad that I helped bring about this madness... WHY DID THE DEVS HAVE TO TAKE A POOPHAMMER THREAD SERIOUSLY!? WHY!?

[SittingBull]

Let me explain how the special niche of polearms that I play got completely decimated.

Now, removing the spin-stab for most people won't affect them. 2h'ers still have their powerful swings and overheads - same with 4 directional polearms. Longer  2 directional polearms (pikes, long spears, bamboo spears, etc) have now correctly been nerfed to where they're purely support weapons (I have a MW Bamboo Spear). Luckily, the long reach of these weapons allows them to still be massively effective as support weapons, and terrible in close range combat (as it probably should be).

However, it seems like a very, very small niche of polearms - those with short-range, 2-directional polearms have been rendered nearly useless. My MW BattleFork, unlike other polearms, doesn't have powerful side swings or over-heads to rely on. Nor does this weapon have the reach to be an effective, fully support type weapon - most 2h swords will outreach me. I noticed early on using this weapon that in close-combat the BattleFork would glance very often on people unless I had the full weapon length distance between us. To combat this problem I used spins to get some speed in my swing in close combat, so that my fork would not glance. Now however, the vast majority of my thrusts have glanced off of players that I'm fighting. I can't get too close, or I'll glance. I can't get too far, or they'll outreach me. The room of my forks effectiveness is confined to a very small area, the distance would have to be nearly perfect.

Playing on Siege and Battle today, I've been completely discouraged. The weapon that I love to use has been reduced to nothing but a regular pitch fork pretty much, and if you take the polestun away from it (one of the very few advantages it has left), you render the weapon entirely useless.

Just my two cents on this whole nerf. I didn't feel polearms of all classes were that over-bearing to deserve a double nerf, and if both go through then short-range 2-directional polearms will need a bump somewhere.

[Tanken]

Just to follow up with what SittingBull said..

I initially thought the nerf would completely render my Long Spear useless. Well, not entirely, but I'll get to that in a second. Swiss Halberd, Warfork, and a few other short-range 2-direction weapons like SittingBull said are pretty much useless right now. Sosarian Knight has used his Swiss Halberd for like 5 Generations and was mortified today when he couldn't really do shit. The major problem with the reduction to spins is how telegraphed our attacks are now. We don't necessarily have the ability to feint with these weapons, so our feints always consisted of turning away and spinning back in. Now, for Sosarian, he attacks, chambers, spins, but can't release during the spin, he has to face them head on and release.

You can still spin-stab, just throwing that out there, but it is entirely too telegraphed and as if blocking down against a 1-direction spear thrust wasn't already easy enough, it just got a whole hell of a lot easier. My attacks consist of A) Over the teammate's shoulder, but wait! Gotta time that perfectly, I've only got 10 degrees of motion to avoid stabbing them in the back of the head. B) Stabbing at someone head on, oh, they can block down? Who'da thunk it. C) Chamber attack, jump away, spin 180-360 degrees in the air, but sure as hell can't release anytime sooner because my feet have to be on the ground to do it. Oh what's that? You saw the whole thing? Yeah, block down, it ain't hard.

I feel as though Long Spear is still -playable- to an extent, but give it 2-3 more days and its 3 telegraphed moves it now has will be learned and defended by everyone, whereas before a skilled spearman would have 5-7 viable moves. The halberds and forks and awfulpikes got the nerf a little harder though, unless they too can learn how to perfectly telegraph their shit.

[robert_namo]

you know when a nodachi sucks when people want to trade for it and ask for thousands of gold over it.

[OpenPalm]

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Hottest popcorn gif I have ever seen.  I am going to use this from now on.

[Dexxtaa]

Hottest popcorn gif I have ever seen.  I am going to use this from now on.

Yeah. That is. This is my closest attempt.
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[POOPHAMMER]

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[Dexxtaa]

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[San]

I feel sorry for those who used to helicopter with overheads and stabs. (As 1h) Overheads I can still hit sometimes, but it is definitely trickier.

Hoplite you definitely can't 1v1 much too well now since it's harder to fake people out, but in 2+ against 1, it is still quite good.

I think that the rotation nerf is overall not really needed, but it's not difficult to spin before release if you make a conscious effort. You can't just expect to get the swing/stab in first if your opponent notices. The glancing thing can be fixed but that is also a problem for getting accurate hits. Melee doesn't seem all that faster/slower to me from the perspective of someone who didn't really do all that stuff much outside of hoplite.

Overall it seems like a hindrance instead of a fix. It can be worked around easily enough, but I don't see the point other than that the stabs/overhead are a little more predictable now. I wouldn't call it a complete success (of "lolstab" nerf) since it messes with multiple other factors. Ex: This rotation limit could've been implemented only during a jump and would have fixed the most ridiculous scenarios with long spears and just fixing the 2h stab animation itself, maybe greatsword only. I liked the halfswording but more pierce idea on the suggestions board, too.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

For hopolites and other uni directional attacking pole arms the trick will be if they can get 2 stabs, a high and low stab. If they can then they will be nice and useful again, but with out all that hateful bullshit grrrr polestager grrrr!

[oprah_winfrey]

I feel sorry for those who used to helicopter with overheads and stabs. (As 1h) Overheads I can still hit sometimes, but it is definitely trickier.

I would assume some of that comes from the fact that the steel pick is so short, so people can get out of your range fairly quickly.

Having played about a million xp last night as 2h, it is certainly different. The hardest part isn't as much that stabs were nerfed that hard, but that I was still trying to do things from before the patch which led to a lot of missed stabs and getting hit. It was somewhat funny watching everyone attempting to stab people and coming up short. Playstyles will surely change in the next coming days/weeks. It is also important to note that the sword of war gets a lot better, since it isn't primarily a stabbing weapon but still has the ability to do so + as anyone that has watched Cy play, you can hilt slash pretty well with it.

The part that bothers me is that this change is a buff to cav, which they certainly didn't need.

Edit: Regardless of how much worse 2h/polearms are now, the part that matters to me is that its less fun. Also, would it be possible to have this effect the battle server but not the duel server? (without it effecting strat I guess?)

[Zisa]

A couple more observations...

If you are out of position, you are likely to pay more for it now (i.e. die). That may fall under 'working as intended'. I'm sure people will adapt, maybe after a week we'll have provided enough data (i.e. whining) for cmp to make further adjustments.

[Artyem]

Yeah. That is. This is my closest attempt.
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You. Sick. Bastard...