Author Topic: NA gets Patch  (Read 20123 times)

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Offline Zanze

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2012, 07:06:46 pm »
+1
First thing I found on google under greatsword length:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweih%C3%A4nder

So a pike should only be ~2x as long, but in game its much longer then that. I also didn't see anything in your link about 360 spin stabs or whatnot.

If you read the topic, I was arguing the length and usage of Viking Spears in that post. Not the 360 spin stabs.
What I will argue against 360 spin stabs "OH ITS NOT REALISTIC" argument is this: its "NOT REALISTIC" for you to hold your weapon at your waist and block a stab directed at any part of your body. You have taken away spin stabs, one directional thrust weapons are now boned. Give us an overhead thrust attack similar to mount and musket or napoleon.

Offline isatis

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2012, 07:08:48 pm »
+3
note to myself : sell quickly my greatsword to strange no patched australian

note to myself : keep thrower

note to myself : make popcorn
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2012, 07:11:47 pm »
+2
[/spoiler]
Hey, OBGYN,
If I was truly clever, and self serving, I would run around with a katana and giggle my way through a lot of people with this nerf.

While my knowledge of vaginas is legendary, I cannot take that much credit for it. Abusing visual bugs that make literally zero sense shouldn't be part of "skill", if they were, addapt and get the fuck over it.
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Offline Zisa

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2012, 07:13:33 pm »
-1
While my knowledge of vaginas is legendary, I cannot take that much credit for it. Abusing visual bugs that make literally zero sense shouldn't be part of "skill", if they were, addapt and get the fuck over it.
Which bug are you referring to, and what the fuck?  You have non sequitered this thread, get a grip man.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2012, 07:15:35 pm »
+4
Which bug are you referring to, and what the fuck?  You have non sequitered this thread, get a grip man.

I think it's pretty fucked up in the first place that dragging a thrust or overhead sideways into an enemy was considered something normal and just another part of a player's arsenal. It was retarded and it looked retarded.
And everything in that previous post was relevant, no non-sequiturs. Unless you don't know what OBGYN actually means and just think it sounded funny.
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Offline Penitent

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2012, 07:18:54 pm »
0
I think it's pretty fucked up in the first place that dragging a thrust or overhead sideways into an enemy was considered something normal and just another part of a player's arsenal. It was retarded and it looked retarded.
And everything in that previous post was relevant, no non-sequiturs.

Looks retarded for poles, but not 1h.  It makes sense to twist a thrust into an enemy to your left.  I'm doing right now, with my hand.

No one will answer me.  Was 1h spin thrusting nerfed, and why? 


Offline Vodner

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2012, 07:19:19 pm »
+2
Quote
I think it's pretty fucked up in the first place that dragging a thrust or overhead sideways into an enemy was considered something normal and just another part of a player's arsenal. It was retarded and it looked retarded.
Ensuring that player skill is paramount is far more important than getting rid of something because it looks a little silly.

Offline TurmoilTom

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2012, 07:21:08 pm »
+2
I'll just say right now that I am in full agreement with everything Vodner has to say and that it has reached the point where I'm sad that my Warband crashes whenever I enter a Native server.

Offline Allers

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #53 on: June 21, 2012, 07:21:46 pm »
-1
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Offline Canary

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #54 on: June 21, 2012, 07:21:54 pm »
+4
wait, all spinning stabs were nerfed?
All stabs and all overheads.

Polestagger removed was a great thing though.
Polestagger still exists on NA. We don't have the dead bodies absorbing hits thing, either. This thread is very convoluted. All we got from the new system was the stab/overhead turning reduction, so far.

Saul, you're telling me that one of the ways to get a kill is to abuse a mechanic that specifically gives one weapon class an advantage over all the others? The 1h couldn't do it, waiting too long ends in a glance. Polearms couldn't do it. It's not even in the animation. But oh god forbid we balance the precious 2h heroes and their swords of justice.
Clearly the answer is to remove a large amount of the advantage manual dexterity(in real life) can give you while playing the game for all melee classes. This is a universal handicap on motor skills.

You can't say its an overall nerf to melee skill.  It makes things easier for some players (those blocking a thrust) and harder for other (those performing a thrust).  So its a wash.  Harder for some, easier for others.  That's what a nerf is!  Spin stabs were nerfed, so those using them will have to increase their skill to remain competitive.
At what point does "having to increase their skill to remain competitive" become "unable to compete with parity" and "having to switch weapons to remain viable" I wonder?

Yeah, you can say it's an overall nerf to melee skill. Yes, it will take some practice to compensate for the loss of the range of motion, but like I said: It's literally a handicap on motor skills, a reduction of precision while using your mouse. What's more is that it removes much of the viability of weapons that are only capable of attacking in the two directions that got nerfed. I wouldn't say that people not using those weapons automatically deserved to be at least half less affected by such an otherwise universal nerf, especially not on some basis of "they can increase their skill so it's okay!"

I'm not entirely against the change, but having it be universal to weapon classes is bad. How bad? Faster weapons didn't seem to be able to turn as far during the stab or overhead because of how quickly the animation ended. For an overall faster-speed weapon class like 1handers, that's extremely bad.  You now have to aim so much more beforehand when using weapons that should be giving you an advantage in animation speed that it has become a severe disparity that I don't think serves to make the game better.

I will now quote myself on my thoughts before this thread on the spinstabs, because I think I summed it up okay:
...

Now, of course, spinstab still has its issues. I don't feel you should ever be able to swing twice and succeed if the other person blocked your first attack, assuming they start attacking, unless there are extreme circumstances involved (they're using a much slower weapon than you, teamplay/not 1on1, glancing on walls), but that also applies to hiltslash and I guess crushthrough. Blocking then jumping and turning into a person and landing a hit after you've just dinged against somebody's block is ridiculous. Stabbing through teammates is ridiculous. Stabbing over and around walls is usually ridiculous.

What's not ridiculous is using a spin to land a hit on someone just because they're close to you and your weapon is over 150 length (within reason). This mechanic can be stopped so easily, you just have to watch for it and block down. It's a problem when you don't block it, but I will say that it's highly exacerbated by the immediacy of the active hitbox. Spinning to decrease the time between the start of your swing and the time you can viably hit someone with it is bad, but you should not be helpless when someone is in your face just because you chose a weapon that only has two attack directions.

...

I do know that I do a lot of last minute corrections during the attack animation on every thrust I put forth, mostly to avoid teammates with them. The speed at which I can turn will greatly affect the amount of times I can viably thrust without teamhitting. So, that'd be a nerf for teamplay as well.

You have taken away spin stabs, one directional thrust weapons are now boned.

I wouldn't say that. They're honestly better off than up/down only weapons, because the only two single direction attack weapons in the game(barring hoplite weapons, which are arguably the worst off because of this nerf) are so long. They're still alright for team situation, they're just much worse in a 1vs1 situation, now. The shorter up/down weapons were already worse for teamwork and are now also much worse in a 1v1 situation, which they were quite viable for previously.

Offline Peasant_Woman

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #55 on: June 21, 2012, 07:22:09 pm »
+1
Ensuring that player skill is paramount is far more important than getting rid of something because it looks a little silly.

Because abusing something that logic tells you shouldn't even physics is really skilled.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2012, 07:22:16 pm »
+1
I disagree. Was it something that was intended? Did the Warband devs deliberately make it that way, or is it just something flawed in the combat mechanisms that veteran players got used to?
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Offline Zisa

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2012, 07:24:22 pm »
0
I think it's pretty fucked up in the first place that dragging a thrust or overhead sideways into an enemy was considered something normal and just another part of a player's arsenal. It was retarded and it looked retarded.
The overhead drag is nonsense, but make sure we are referring to the same thing...
I see it as the hits that 'miss', then magically drag to shoe for the achilles tendon insta kill.
Sadly, I only seem to get 'lucky' this way when I am trying to MISS a team mate.
Some of this is of course latency and illusion.
I'd go on about what I think may be some problems but I got a Haiku to post.

That is a lot different then overheading and turning and cleaving in two someone behind you.
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Offline Zisa

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2012, 07:25:20 pm »
0
Nodachi remembers stab
It learned to go without
How the mighty have fallen

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Offline TurmoilTom

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Re: NA gets Patch
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2012, 07:25:50 pm »
+7
Because abusing something that logic tells you shouldn't even physics is really skilled.

This is a video game. Who cares if it's realistic? I just want to have a multiplayer rpg-like game that challenges me and has an infinitely rising skill-ceiling so I can have fun, challenging fights all the time.

If I wanted realism I'd go outside.