the fuck is "double swings"
They did something to 2handers right swing I don't know about other weapons but I know it.
the left swing is now faster then the right. right swing is alot slower
I heard upkeep and pole stagger chance were doubled.
You know, when suddenly everybody approved that spamming and running around (or backward/forward) your enemy was better than doing feints and holds.
That's because feints/holds don't work versus good players, simple as that. I can safely say that spamming/outranging with good footwork work much much better.
There we go. Many people I see often start spamming after two or three strikes. Quite retarded IMO. It just works because it reduces the creativity of combat (what can you do but mimic when the enemy systematically prepares a new swing, blocking at the last moment) and mix everything into a mud of randomness. Castor swings and hiltslashes are the worst thing that ever happened to melee.
That's because feints/holds don't work versus good players, simple as that. I can safely say that spamming/outranging with good footwork work much much better.
There we go. Many people I see often start spamming after two or three strikes. Quite retarded IMO. It just works because it reduces the creativity of combat (what can you do but mimic when the enemy systematically prepares a new swing, blocking at the last moment) and mix everything into a mud of randomness. Castor swings and hiltslashes are the worst thing that ever happened to melee.
There we go. Many people I see often start spamming after two or three strikes. Quite retarded IMO. It just works because it reduces the creativity of combat (what can you do but mimic when the enemy systematically prepares a new swing, blocking at the last moment) and mix everything into a mud of randomness. Castor swings and hiltslashes are the worst thing that ever happened to melee.
There we go. Many people I see often start spamming after two or three strikes. Quite retarded IMO. It just works because it reduces the creativity of combat (what can you do but mimic when the enemy systematically prepares a new swing, blocking at the last moment) and mix everything into a mud of randomness. Castor swings and hiltslashes are the worst thing that ever happened to melee.Minute long fights were the worst thing to happen to melee. As average player skill continues to increase, this is going to become more common. Range-games and double swings are the most effective ways to land hits on most players now.
Time to go to polestun class again. :P
If you go back to your glaive, don't forget to sticky tape/glue your s key down, it will save you any unnecessary finger pain :)
animation changes since last patch:
cmp increased the start up time for 2h right swing animation by 0.1
urist increased the total animation time for 2h thrust by 0.9
animation changes since last patch:
cmp increased the start up time for 2h right swing animation by 0.1
urist increased the total animation time for 2h thrust by 0.09
Castor swing = hiltslash
This is not just a start of paranoia. They have definately changed it. Many 2hs I've spoken with says the same. And the reason why they did it is yet to be revealed. Because this is stupid. I want some kind of explanation why they nerfed it. Makes no sense. And yeah, people who says that it makes no difference you obviously havent played 2hander for long.I would be fine with this nerf if the pole stagger was gone, but it isn;t. Instead of putting the new helmets ingame and fixing real problems they nerf a class in a weird way. Polearms already swung faster, guess we have to leftswing spam like 1h now.
We all know 2 handers have been quite useless in strategus unless you were really skilled. And now they nerf it even more.
Instantly respecced to polearm.Definetily thinking about this, but damn I'll be lvl 30.
Instantly respecced to polearm.
This is not just a start of paranoia. They have definately changed it. Many 2hs I've spoken with says the same. And the reason why they did it is yet to be revealed. Because this is stupid. I want some kind of explanation why they nerfed it. Makes no sense. And yeah, people who says that it makes no difference you obviously havent played 2hander for long.
We all know 2 handers have been quite useless in strategus unless you were really skilled. And now they nerf it even more.
Instantly respecced to polearm.
Not that i care, but lolwut ? 2h in strategus = 1-2(max)shot killing machines cause they get the best efficiency weapons out of them all - cheap 2h axes . 1h get crappy short shit and shields that get destroyed in 1 swing of those axes and polearms get either spears/pikes or scythes that are long of course, but nowhere near the efficiency of axes in Strat.
Yeah, 1-2 hits at the most. Still, no cover from ranged so taking 1-2 arrows every 5 minutes does kinda hurt. But maybe 2h are not "useless" so yeah.
This is a buff for cav.
Soon, 2handers will be required to be no faster then 3 athletics, and suffer blocking penalty vs shielders.
I was not sure there could actually be such a rage worthy nerf, but congratulations.
Most players take 0-1-2-even 3 skill shields in strat nowadays. And when you get into melee and are getting shot by archers , doesnt make much different if you;'re a 2h or 1hander.
Instantly respecced to polearm.
Polearm right swing got the same nerf.
FYI.
Polearm right swing got the same nerf.
FYI.
Polearm right swing got the same nerf.
FYI.
Instead of reducing swing speed, which makes blocking easier, why not increase swingspeed across the board? This would make blocking harder, and add more room for individual player skill. Ideally, the depth of combat should be increasing over time (as the community gets more skilled) rather than decreasing.
At the moment, blocking is trivially easy. Pretty much anybody with 300 or more hours in the game can block a single opponent indefinitely.
I find myself playing more and more native lately. It kind of brings me more fun for 2 reasons:vote here: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,18324.0.html
1. Team Deathmatch. Seriously this should be implemented in cRPG...
Shit needs to go back to how it was. No problems were there. Learn to block get betterBack before the eariler active attacks were implemented imo. And start over from that point.
Instead of reducing swing speed, which makes blocking easier, why not increase swingspeed across the board? This would make blocking harder, and add more room for individual player skill.
Well the dev's make a lot of rage worthy nerfs. Most of the nerfs have been rage worthy. Nothing in the game is so overpowered that there isn't a reasonable counter to it. I like the gameplay changes to balance the game out (like changing the lance radius from horseback), but constantly tweaking the weapons and equipment to different stats makes it hard for people to plan a build (and then they waste money when the equipment they deemed "the best" for them, is suddenly changed).I agree, but then again cant you see how the rabid complaining about every little thing that doesn't fall in with how someone thinks, (and I use the word lightly), the game should be.
I think the lance rotation lock is stupid, im no fucking lancer.
Got no problems with slower speed. But why not reduce the original speed of the weapon instead of the right swing only? The animation looks fucking stupid and is very annoying tbh.
Because it's purpose is to make hiltslashing harder, not to slow down a specific weapon.
The thing is, I disagree with an across the board speed increase. Coincidentally, most of the people complaining about the slowness are 2h/polearm duelistsI have played several gens of 1h. I had no problem countering castors when I was paying attention (and when I wasn't, I deserved to get hit). Kicks and range-games are far deadlier for a decent 1h than castors.
Personally I feel that melee should be difficult, fast, and very unforgiving of mistakes.
The 2h right swing was perfectly fine beforehand. It really didn't need a speed reduction.
I've played every class except crossbowman.
Killed many a valiant fighter with a throwing axe to face.
Shield turtled Rhade while he was riddled with arrows.
Lanced many from horseback.
Swashbuckled through archers.
Crushed shielders with an elegant poleaxe.
And 2h is the most rewarding.
I hate the lance nerf. It breeds 1hand bump cav, and you have now gimped my anti-1hand cav build.
Good job giving them the advantage back, I know, they were terrified of that flamberge - couldn't have that!
Flams were designed to cut the ends off of pikes in infantry encounters, not to duel or take down cav. It's one of the more ridiculous weapons in the game.Way to paraphrase wikipedia nimrod. Find some more sources. Ask Shik.
And I respect that, but disagree. Skill-based is fine by me, elite player-only is not.
Reflexes are reflexes, some have good ones others don't. You CAN train that though but it is very hard if it doesn't come naturally to you.
IMO everyone can be good at Mount&Blade, just takes time and dedication since there's so many different aspects to combat in this game, if you're not the best raw skill player then there's loads of other equally deadly options, should be a proper fighting style for everyone here. I enjoyed my time learning to play Mount&Blade, it didn't come instant, was even beat up by bots in single player in the beginning, noobing it around online as well until I started spending time on the duel server to hone my blocking skills, after having my blocking somewhat in check I started watching how people moved, especially those who did best, then I copied that, made my own moves, figured out more things. I love(d) these aspects of M&B, you don't find many games today who honor the true nature of gaming, learning and problem solving, just as it used to be until mainstream (consoles) and money ruined gaming overall.
Elite player? You know how they got elite? Natural skill, some people at just better then others and all their work won't help them.I got good by playing lots of duel. I was pretty bad when I first started.
I got good by playing lots of duel. I was pretty bad when I first started.
Im not noticing anything=You can do a right swing, go to the toilet and be back just in time to see it hit.
Quess im going nuts here:O
Way to paraphrase wikipedia nimrod. Find some more sources. Ask Shik.
Also, it is one of the more gimpy two handers, get a SoW for dueling, or a great axe if you really want to mess people up - oh nevermind.. get a fucking 1 hander.
Gratz on killing hiltslash, which was not a problem except for the hard of thinking, and as bonus colateral damage you've gimped dancers as well.
Way to paraphrase wikipedia nimrod. Find some more sources. Ask Shik.
Also, it is one of the more gimpy two handers, get a SoW for dueling, or a great axe if you really want to mess people up - oh nevermind.. get a fucking 1 hander.
Just trying the impossible, to help some of the more educationally challenged, like you douchebag.Well try reading a book or two ya dumb fuck before showing off your ability to find useless 'information' from wikipedia. Refer to that non article like it's gospel enough times and more 'educated' assholes like yourself will think they have gleaned a tidbit of knowledge. Try quoting a WoW manual next - it will be as valid.
You could post some rebuttal links supporting your side of the argument? Wiki is full of factual info, especially in something as non-controversial as the effectiveness and purpose of a weapon used hundreds of years ago. It's only unreliable on controversial issues. Just saying "lolol Wiki lies" is retarded.check the fucking link yourself then.
check the fucking link yourself then.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame-bladed_sword#Flamberge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame-bladed_sword#Flamberge)
Then go find some useful link.
It's an unsupported and shitty wiki stub.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame-bladed_sword#Flamberge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame-bladed_sword#Flamberge)Hey thanks for the wikipedia link, so glad you want to jump in on this, and glad you could confirm it with some jackoff from You Tube who bought one for $50... Pretty sure it was DMG 2nd edition had as useful info as this.
Make it a better article then. You're apparently bursting with knowledge on this thing, and there are no sources, but a quick google seems to coroborate the gist of it. What books did you read with factual historical info about flamberges? Where did you find a claim that they weren't almost uniquely used as an anti-pike weapon?
Hey thanks for the wikipedia link, so glad you want to jump in on this, and glad you could confirm it with some jackoff from You Tube who bought one for $50... Pretty sure it was DMG 2nd edition had as useful info as this.
Keep trying to steer away from the horsehit that is this stupid nerf.
You know what I don't understand? For about one week, no one even noticed the change. Then when the OP made this post and the devs confirmed it, suddenly people started crying how unplayable it is, threatening to respec to polearms (that one's a favorite) or quit.
What happened in the days before the post? Surely if this was such a gamebreaking change people would have noticed it earlier... or was everyone taking a break from cRPG?
Anyway, we thought of a better way to fix hiltslashing that doesn't involve weapon speed reduction. It's slightly harder to implement, but when/if it's done, this nerf will have no more reason to exist.
Is it possible the chamber time was changed as well as the swing time, or was that intended?
Cmp's crusade against two-handed and anything involving skill continues.
Not only is the swing slower, it feels like the chamber animation is slower as well and this obviously affects feints and normal attacks.
Autosuggestion much?
You cant stop us cmp.
So they want to 'fix' hiltslashing yet polestun remains where players are able to basically get a free hit if they hit you once and polestun you, I've never had a problem with 2h at all, yet it is lame as hell when someone can hit you once with a polearm, then you are basically unable to do anything as they hit you again.
Basically this. A rather small problem like hiltslashing (which can still be blocked) gets addressed but the ridicolous polestun stays in the game.
I didn't know polestun went through blocks...
IT'S ME, A CMP!
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
I am saddened that an impartial player like Phyrex, known for having mastered all classes and his versatility in play styles, would think that of me. It definitely means I did something wrong.
Nice try, but you must play 2h for at least 2 months in a row to join the 2h lobby.
2 months??? There is less than 10 people playing this mod who were 2H for two months and still are...
2 months??? There is less than 10 people playing this mod who were 2H for two months and still are...
Played 2h for a year
Nice try, but you must play 2h for at least 2 months in a row to join the 2h lobby.
Was 2h especially overpowered, and hence needed yet another nerf?
Was it just to make hiltsalshing harder? If so why not apply the same to the polearm?
Why are you nerfing 2h so much without even removing polestun
- Why are you nerfing 2h so much without even removing polestun
People here complaining that they want a reason for some kind of nerf....did archers ever get any statements about why they were nerfed 100 times?
I don't remember :rolleyes:
2h being the weakest or most difficult to play class and now it gets nerfed?
Oh noes you poor 2handers :O How can anyone do this to such a weak and powerless and nonplayed class *sniff* I'm really starting to cry here :rolleyes:
Now start shouting, crying, insulting, dismember me midair or whatever you wanna do. Have fun :)
Maybe now you guys get a feeling for how it is when your classes important things are nerfed
But I have to agree in one thing: Why nerf twohand when polearm still has things like polestun or can kill you, although they are so close to you, that they could actually only hit you with their fists?
Yes (not just a nerf, though. The hiltslash nerf).
The same was applied to polearm.
For the same reason that I'm nerfing 2h so much without even changing the color of team chat: because they're completely unrelated.
Yes (not just a nerf, though. The hiltslash nerf).
The same was applied to polearm.
For the same reason that I'm nerfing 2h so much without even changing the color of team chat: because they're completely unrelated.
Why is hiltslashing a problem? Why does it need to be removed?
Why do you think 2h is so popular?
Why does it need to be nerfed?
Okay, you're the one, Phyrex can be second, after him, let's see:BlackMilk. Untill yesterday. :D
3. Atze,
4. Cicero (permabanned),
5. Tyr maybe,
6. Tempest,
7. Phase,
8. Vibe,
9. Jormglorm,
10. Kastu,
11. Khorin,
12. Bjord (has no PC)
Yeah I was wrong, there is more than 10 but I'm not sure how many more. I'm pretty sure there is less than 30 member of that lobby which is pretty weak compared to ranged folks.
You know what I don't understand? For about one week, no one even noticed the change. Then when the OP made this post and the devs confirmed it, suddenly people started crying how unplayable it is, threatening to respec to polearms (that one's a favorite) or quit.Some of the best and most active 2handers complained about this earlier ("wtf happened to hiltslash its impossible now")
What happened in the days before the post? Surely if this was such a gamebreaking change people would have noticed it earlier... or was everyone taking a break from cRPG?
Anyway, we thought of a better way to fix hiltslashing that doesn't involve weapon speed reduction. It's slightly harder to implement, but when/if it's done, this nerf will have no more reason to exist.
"increase swing speed across the board to increase individual player skill" is just a hackneyed phrase with no balance thought behind it. The proper way to start thinking about increasing overall speed involves proficiency curve and individual weapon stat changes, and possibly more.
The thing is, I disagree with an across the board speed increase. Coincidentally, most of the people complaining about the slowness are 2h/polearm duelists, just like most of the players complaining about the lance rotation lock are cavalry and just like most of the players complaining about reduced arrow velocity are archers. Now reverse the situation and try asking an archer what he thinks about 2h/polearm speed, a cavalryman about reduced arrow velocity, and an infantryman about lance rotation lock.
cynic tl;dr: egoist whiners gonna whine
Some of the best and most active 2handers complained about this earlier ("wtf happened to hiltslash its impossible now")
Why is polestun a problem? Why does it need to be removed?
Answer that and you have your answer. Oh and it's nerfed, not removed, because hiltslashing is still possible.
Just a gut feeling. And player count according to stats.
See first question.
You are aware I was on your side for the archery nerfs? I am just asking for justification for these ones.
But, polestun is there for a reason. Some would say the "inferior" polearm animations, but I believe it all comes down to the fact that polearms are designed as a support weapon. They're slow, hard-hitting with excellent versatility
Actually, believe it or not, Cmp, I want polestun to remain as it is. Sure I've raged(Really hard :P) over TS when Tor spinthrusted me in the gut with his axe and then cleaved my face afterwards with no escape from an instant death. But, polestun is there for a reason. Some would say the "inferior" polearm animations, but I believe it all comes down to the fact that polearms are designed as a support weapon. They're slow, hard-hitting with excellent versatility, the perfect support weapon.(Or used to be atleast, in Native.) Polearms and two-handed needs to be unique and not a clone of eachother.
Hiltslashing has done nothing to the game except adding more depth to the otherwise shallow combat gameplay. It breaks the stalemate of the hit-block-hit-block scenario. Also, hiltslashing(Or any form of spam) can always be countered by your own strikes, you don't ever need to block twice.
Probably you as well, just don't remember it.
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Fuck I guess you're too dense to answer simple fucking questions. What are your sources you dumb bastard? Is that clear enough? Or should I just take the word of some butthurt bundle of sticks whining that his favorite toy in a video game got nerfed? Yeah that sounds so much better and objective than a wiki article.Any asshole including you can post on wikipedia, which makes unsubstantiated articles nothing but air.
I buy 2h MW, 5k each.lol
I used to be a two-hander, but then it got nerfed lul
Blackmilk beat you to the defection, but do you remember the last time you went pole? You forgot what manual block was for like a week :)
I was the person who got the longbow buffed after the slot change by using approximations to the warband damage equations (this is before I got my hands on the actual ones courtesy of Urist) to show unambiguously the unbalance. Admittedly back then I was an archer, but I generally try to rebel against archery nerfs I disagree with still. I am a 2h who understands archers should have an easy job killing me since you're my counter.
What buff?^^
Btw, go get us a longbow +1 or +2 speedbuff so the delay finally is gone :mrgreen:
"Hiltslash" was never unblockable. One just had to anticipate it, which wasn't that difficult because a player preparing a "hiltslash" had to move/behave in a certain way. It was a bit like instastabs in Native which could be blocked and punished with anticipation too. That's from a low ping perspective though. For high pingers this change might be good.
i liked hitslash because it allowed me to kill scrubs fast instead of getting zerged down
it totaly needed a huge nerf tho, not a removal of yet more player skill :rolleyes:
does the bec also have delay on right swing now?
Cmp if the majority of people want it changed back will you change it back? Because sometimes I don't think you listen to us due to some..... very defensive comments.
To answer that i would advice you to go back in time (or use the search function) and track the history of polls in this forum, their results and what actually happened :mrgreen:
Cmp if the majority of people want it changed back will you change it back? Because sometimes I don't think you listen to us due to some..... very defensive comments.
Cmp if the majority of people want it changed back will you change it back? Because sometimes I don't think you listen to us due to some..... very defensive comments.
I'd just like to know what sort of procedures there are for balancing,. It would probably help keep people on the devs side if they feel their playstyle gets decent representation from the devs. Like do 2 hander users get a say on the dev team about game balance? Do devs have dev characters that get to play around with tweaks before they go live and test with different build types? Do people who make decisions play with 2 handers themselves by choice? It would suck to think people are changing the game to suit themselves. It would also help to avoid calls of bias if changes are listed along side bug fixes in the patch notes. Otherwise it might look like things are trying to be sneaked in
As a new player I still don't know what class to play (will probably either be 2 hander or polearm long term). Only done 2 hander so far and might try polearm next, unless theres a nice spike in cheap 2 handers from this recent nerf :D . Part of the appeal of 2 handers is the look though imo, even if they suck compared to polearms people will still use them because they like to use 2 handed swords
Thanks cmp.... Its nice to know u listen..... So if the poll keeps on till the next patch and at least 33% say change it it will change? I think that would be how it would work.
Yes, I will. I don't even want the majority, 33% of the cRPG playerbase is enough for me.I LOL'd :lol:
Thanks cmp.... Its nice to know u listen..... So if the poll keeps on till the next patch and at least 33% say change it it will change? I think that would be how it would work.only that 33% in the poll (where is it? you don't mean that biased thing from BootyBuster?) isn't 33% of player base.
Thanks cmp.... Its nice to know u listen..... So if the poll keeps on till the next patch and at least 33% say change it it will change? I think that would be how it would work.
Thanks cmp.... Its nice to know u listen..... So if the poll keeps on till the next patch and at least 33% say change it it will change? I think that would be how it would work.
Either way if people say to change it back it should be changed.... And im not even a 2h
:mad:1St slavery is hardly the same as a videogame and 2 the majority of people dont want slavery.
So if a majority of people want to bring back slavery, we should do it.
Good argument, you convinced me.
1St slavery is hardly the same as a videogame and 2 the majority of people dont want slavery.
So your saying your reasoning against it is right? Yeah cause ur obviously right.....the way things work is by votes its how officials are electedYou still don't get what cmp said :lol:
Yes, I will. I don't even want the majority, 33% of the cRPG playerbase is enough for me.You wouldn't even get 33% of the playerbase to vote in a poll if it meant a free loom for everyone...
So your saying your reasoning against it is right? Yeah cause ur obviously right.....the way things work is by votes its how officials are elected
Yes, I will. I don't even want the majority, 33% of the cRPG playerbase is enough for me.
Either way if people say to change it back it should be changed.... And im not even a 2h
Hey cool, let me get lots of people for drawspeed buff for longbow, higher accuracy for all bows, bringing back the damage arrows did a couple of weeks/ months ago and oh not to forget jumpshooting :lol:Since people still can and do hilt slash, which was the alleged problem, keeping a patch that does fuck all except nerf many things not intended is the penultimate in retardation.
If Cmp is serious about that, which I highly doubt, I ask myself why twohanders get their will by whining and complaining, whereas other classes don't :/
I can't remember such a thing to have happened and I doubt it will.
Would actually be totally ridiculous to reverse something, just because the nerfed class whines^^
"Hiltslash" was never unblockable. One just had to anticipate it, which wasn't that difficult because a player preparing a "hiltslash" had to move/behave in a certain way. It was a bit like instastabs in Native which could be blocked and punished with anticipation too. That's from a low ping perspective though. For high pingers this change might be good.
Nah, I could block hiltslashes on NA duel. In fact, they were the EASIEST to block because you get so much time to set up the right block since you can anticipate what they'll do. Ping isn't an issue there.Indeed, we had a one to two minute duel where he had ~130 ping and he blocked every one of the hilt slashes I threw at him after getting frustrated at how much he was blocking me. He ended up winning that duel as well. This is one of the reasons why I can't decide whether or not to agree with the right swing slowdown. Surely if one can consistently block it at 130 ping, it should be significantly easier with just 50.
Mod is dead.
:o
hey 2handers is it as bad as lance angle nerf for cav or what ?trololo Chagan ? Not even close of course =). Now if they've taken the right swing from them as a whole attack direction...
trololo Chagan ? Not even close of course =). Now if they've taken the right swing from them as a whole attack direction...
lance vs lance duels on horseback became less fun.
Why are poles (even though same nerf) still, and always faster even though weighing more?
wat
I guess that puts 2h on par with 1h, then :lol:
I guess that puts 2h on par with 1h, then :lol:
I used some hours on duel to change my playstyle from using many right swings to using many left swings. After you´ve done that you will be ok. Right Swing is now just a occasional attack you have to place well, while you are spamming left swings.
:lol: indeed.Read what i quoted.
For a start:
Read what i quoted.
Merged, stick to the existing thread. No need to create a new one.
As opposed to shielders having to leftswing constantly to avoid getting spammed by any attack before.
It is the case against a lot of builds/players/weapons.
Sorry, but no way in hell you can get spammed so easily with 1h right swing as you can with 2h/pole right swing atm.Yeah, unless you are using a STR build. Are you using a STR build with 2h?
I don't. I'm not GTXting 2h over it and am not mad, but I dislike the fact that I'm easily spammed every time.I decide to use a right swing.
now you now how every other melee class felt when fighting 2hers
Yeah, unless you are using a STR build. Are you using a STR build with 2h?
Bullshit.
now you now how every amateur felt when fighting 2hers
Well, um I thought this was the "um wtf just happened" thread while my thread was supposed to be about why it's bad, but mkay.
---------------------
Btw the polearm - shielder balance padagrim is terrible now. With the rightswing nerfed you're forced to stab them to avoid leftswing spams which especially with heavy shields causes a lot of thruststuns. Please fix this.
There's a VR_ GLA user (I can't remember his nick though) I was literally unable to fight with my shielder. Shield down in 2 or 3 hits, then weapon stunned. Sometimes he even managed to glitch on the sides and hit through my shield or my block.
Why would you not put the shield on your back when fighting a GLA...?
Anyway:
If weapon stun is the issue then that has really nothing to do with this? To *counter* weaponstun what you need to do is to be patient and learn to see the animation when it happens. It's a questionable mechanic I agree, but it does not make fighting as a 1h impossible in any way.
Also: Regarding this "hit through block" business that people always seem to fall back on whenever they lose (no offence): I have ~65 ping usually and am on a fairly crappy line thanks to the town I live in and I VERY rarely see stuff like that. 99% of the time it's just animation glitches anyway and can be circumvented by trusting your gut more than your on-screen character.
I usually use stab/overhead only type of weapons, but having played on my 2h alt and grabbed the long bardiche on my polearm main, I don't see the big fuzz really.
Although my blocking skills aren't very good, in that particular case, the combination of stun + hiltslash or soap tornado footwork (or both) made it straight impossible. In a regular situation, a stun leaves you able to block the next swing. But in this case (hiltslash after stun), this didn't hold true. About the hit through blocks, it wasn't due to a wrong block or not anticipating enough due to the shield speed. I holded my block (and I emphazise on that part) and kept on facing him. Nevertheless, when the angle was a little more than 15° bam, my shield didn't do anything (although being clearly in the way but meh, fail forcefield nerf). It doesn't seem to work like that for 2h and 1h swings.
It does also annoy me to see how 1h is untouched nearly, its on the edge of being too strong compared to polearm/2h, in my opinion. The animations on the left swing and the upper has got ridicolous speeds.
1H
It does also annoy me to see how 1h is untouched nearly, its on the edge of being too strong compared to polearm/2h, in my opinion. The animations on the left swing and the upper has got ridicolous speeds.
But then again, let's just slow down everything that even looks too fast, why not.Thats what happened with 2h ?
but i believe that 1h didn't get touched because only a small number of players can do good with them.What? I havent rly played 1h much on a char dedicated on 1h, havent even played 1h much in general. I usually just pick up a 1h on my 2h. And i do not rly have any problems killing people with 1 wpf with a 1h. I usually end up killing the guys which i took the mw 1h from.
I've been on the duel server for a while today. A lot of 1h and they all leftslashspam. Right strafe with leftslash while facing a little to the right of me make them hit me in the first milliseconds and its spammable. Awful. 1h could use a slowdown one the left swing. We lost our ability to hiltslash (well, atleast I did, but never was great at it). Which was hard to do and only a handful could confidently do it in battle. 1H is still left with the leftslashspam, which every moron can pull off. The 1H leftslash is not only superfast, it also hits like a truck due to automatic headhitting and its great for feinting.I don't get it, i was on duel server with my 2her, which is a 23/15 build right now at lvl30 and i was SPAMMING 1hers and such with my right swing. I think i actually pulled off a few hiltslashes, which i really don't know how to do.
The only thing I as a polearmer have left against that is backpedal stab spam, please dont force me to be one of those.
All you have to do against the "uberfastleftswingofdoom" of 1handers is to block right. It can't stun you, hitslash you,polestagger you,go around your block or crushthrough it.Well you have to be quick about that block, cause the hit is lightning fast, and when you think you've blocked it, there comes another one. It can't hiltslash you, but it can double leftslash you, pretty much same effect.
You can also stun most 1h with most 2h and polearms.The time I need to hold an attack to stun a 1h is enough for the 1h to get another leftslash hit in. 1h attacks should be really evened out, same goes for all classes, but the 1h leftslash in itself is overpowered, sure the other attacks are weaker, but who needs it when 1 attack suffices for almost all situations.
The amount of hits it took me to kill a STR 2h (Hearst for example) with 8 ps and a ms knightly arming was around 7-9, it took him 2, 3 max .That goes for all classes, I usually needed 5 hits or more with 7 ps and MW Danish.
Couldn't agree more.
1h is really under the radar for some reason, but it's too powerful for it's speed, animations, and defensive capabilities.
Yes, 2h can duel better, but cannot autoblock a certain radius, and deflect projectiles.
1h can do this, while having about the same damage, faster speed, and more headhits thanks to their reach/animations.
If you think that "low" reach is a disadvantage of 1h, you are very, very wrong. It's an excellent advantage, if you can use it.
(The angle "bouncing" and terrain collision was a beautiful onehander ninja buff for an example.)
1h shielders can kill people with ease with the left slash spam only, let alone abusing the damned spammitar for an example.
Not really, it works both ways.
It can be a disadvantage, but it's an advantage because of the headhit tendency.
Well, then why can 1h kill people in like two or three hits, just like any other weapon style?
I don't really want to start an agrument here
You don't get it.
They can get closer to you, in fact they must get closer to you, and can use quick attacks to slash or smash your head a lot easier than others, because the shielder will be in your face.
#2:
Then, your previous argument saying "damage isn't around equal" fails, Hence you saying that anyone can stack PS to two hit people.
I'm aware that this is leading to nowhere, but oh well.
Not really, it works both ways.I don't know if you've ever played as a 1h, but a shield is a disadvantage in many situations, for example it's harder for me to duel with it then without it in most cases.
It can be a disadvantage, but it's an advantage because of the headhit tendency.
Also they are compensated with an auto block shield, for crying out loud. It evens this out.
Well, then why can 1h kill people in like two or three hits, just like any other weapon style?
Gah.
Xant, you make a whole lot of sense as well.
:)
If that's not related to damage, then what is?
@Ujin:
I played around with 1h a bit with my own character.
Also played my friend's 1h+shielder.
I'm not saying that it isn't a disadvantage, it is. But it is very handy, especially boosting the killing power in battle.
Duels, well yes, the good blocking onehander is two times more dangerous unshielded. That's true.
Weaker damage gets compensated by increased power strike or speed bonus.I never knew mathematics and theories don't go along so well...
So in theory, yes.
Mathematically, no.
But it's going to two hit reliably, so that's what matters.
Tbh we are going nowhere with this, and it's seriously off topic now.
Want to continue n/n?
Weaker damage gets compensated by increased power strike or speed bonus.
So in theory, yes.
Mathematically, no.
But it's going to two hit reliably, so that's what matters.
I never knew mathematics and theories don't go along so well...
Well you have to be quick about that block, cause the hit is lightning fast, and when you think you've blocked it, there comes another one. It can't hiltslash you, but it can double leftslash you, pretty much same effect.Lag
The time I need to hold an attack to stun a 1h is enough for the 1h to get another leftslash hit in.Range?
1h attacks should be really evened out, same goes for all classes, but the 1h leftslash in itself is overpowered, sure the other attacks are weaker, but who needs it when 1 attack suffices for almost all situations.Teeth I know how you are fighting, it always takes you a split second before you attack back after blocking and you feint way too much, its easy to spam you and nobody needs a onehander for that.
The only thing I as a polearmer have left against that is backpedal stab spam, please dont force me to be one of those.
No.
What I said is that even if it doesn't increase weapon damage equally, a weaker weapon can benefit and get to the "2hitting with ease" field of play, just like a weapon with higher base damage.
You don't understand me either.
Bring on the insults, y/y?
PolearmSoooo true
Dezi i have tryed glaive on a polearm alt, and i dont find the left swing as bad as u say, i find it rather usefull. I do agree that it is short, but i do not find it slow at all. But other than that i do agree with most of ur points.
2H
It saddens me to see 2h dieing out slowly atm. If the devs find hiltslashing a problem, then im fine with it being removed. But that it had to effect polearms and 2hs like this sucks ass. It is sad to see players, which normally loved the 2hs, leaving it and goin to polearm/1h. But it is easy to understand them, the only good reason to stay 2h atm, is because u love it.
1H
It does also annoy me to see how 1h is untouched nearly, its on the edge of being too strong compared to polearm/2h, in my opinion. The animations on the left swing and the upper has got ridicolous speeds.
Like I said, it's leading nowhere anyway.
But btw, I mentioned speed bonus as compensation to damage as well, not just PS.
(My opinion on 1h left slash being too powerful still stands, though)
So, leave it be, stay on topic.
ITT:
2hers trying to explain how 1hers and polers are overpowered
polers trying to explain how 1hers and 2hers are overpowered
1hers trying to explain how 2hers and polers are overpowered
Outcome: all feedback ignored by devs.
I don't think anyone was trying to say 2hers and polearms are overpowered cmp, l2read.
I meant the entire topic, not just the latest discussion.
wow i think the thread with lance angle nerf didnt had so much pages as this "slowing down right swing" thread, i guess you guys must really been hurt with this nerf, probably whole 2h gameplay will change now, and those duels wont be the same ever again ;(
stay strong guys
Also, breaking news - 2h and polearms can land swings/thrusts on the head too.You have to aim above the head of your enemy, which is far from a comfortable view angle and makes spotting attack directions very hard. Landing head hits on side swings or thrusts with polearms and 2H is only viable for backstabs and kickslashes.
LagIt's not as borked as a hiltslash, but leftleft its a really fast swing combination. You should know, you regularly spam opponents with a second early in the animation left slash hit. Just look at yourself fight, don't you think the speed should be more evenly distributed between the animations instead of having the one super effective and fast attack? You're a prime example of a leftslashspammer.
Range?Sure you can warm up your stun hit when you approach a 1h, but when they are in your range they stick to your face like glue. Going for a stun hit then is dangerous, as any moment there can be a leftslash hit, which is quite difficult to block with a human reaction time.
Teeth I know how you are fighting, it always takes you a split second before you attack back after blocking and you feint way too much, its easy to spam you and nobody needs a onehander for that.I really doubt this, but if you think I do, I expect a lesson for how to properly attack. Would much appreciate it.
You could also try using a polearm with more than 89 speed...It's 91.
You have to aim above the head of your enemy, which is far from a comfortable view angle and makes spotting attack directions very hard. Landing head hits on side swings or thrusts with polearms and 2H is only viable for backstabs and kickslashes.Any swing can hit your opponents head, it's just a matter of your camera orientation and the only time you can have a normal camera orientation and hit your opponents head, is with a 1h left swing.
It's not as borked as a hiltslash, but leftleft its a really fast swing combination. You should know, you regularly spam opponents with a second early in the animation left slash hit. Just look at yourself fight, don't you think the speed should be more evenly distributed between the animations instead of having the one super effective and fast attack? You're a prime example of a leftslashspammer.
Easy way to look at it:
3 patches ago most 2H
1-2 most poles
Now - most 1h
Alot of people go with whatever seems to be most op at time.
Like many who prefer 2h I am thinking of going 1h no shield next gen.
You have to aim above the head of your enemy, which is far from a comfortable view angle and makes spotting attack directions very hard. Landing head hits on side swings or thrusts with polearms and 2H is only viable for backstabs and kickslashes.
Says you...wat
About 2H vs 1H:
I don't know what's the current situation considering this recent 2H nerf but before that 2H was superior to 1H (without shield).
1h has almost equal range of the 2h with the right swing...
Says you...
About 2H vs 1H:
I don't know what's the current situation considering this recent 2H nerf but before that 2H was superior to 1H (without shield).
2h and pole will always be superior to 1h/without shield simply because of the range and damage (unless they get some major nerf). 1h is to be taken with a shield to stop multiple strikes at the same time and block arrows and to fight in gangbangs without getting stuck on teammates, that's the advantage. It has always been like this, don't see the need to change and/or balance that.
has almost equal range of the 2h with the right swing...
Polearm
Dezi i have tryed glaive on a polearm alt, and i dont find the left swing as bad as u say, i find it rather usefull. I do agree that it is short, but i do not find it slow at all. But other than that i do agree with most of ur points.
So, they are going to increase the stun time on weapon being blocked, huh? That seems like a huge buff to chamberblocking...
Are people saying the GLA is outranged by the greatsword for side swings?
Having played a pole alt with GLA find that surprising.
Hoppin' back a few pages :oops:Not sure if i missunderstood, but i do not use the left swing at a long range, i actually use it when im close mostly.
That's the issue here. The Glavie is ridiculously long for a polearm (actually, only it and the scythe throughoutly beat the greatsword swings) and thus its weakness becomes less apparent.
trololoi played 1h my dear and with the right footwork you outrange a lot of 2h ;)
i played 1h my dear and with the right footwork you outrange a lot of 2h ;)
i use a longsword now and i have way way less reach then when i used an italian
IF IT AIN'T BROKE DO NOT FIX IT!