Author Topic: Did they change the 2h right swing?  (Read 22495 times)

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Offline Vibe

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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #240 on: January 09, 2012, 07:30:39 am »
+2
I don't. I'm not GTXting 2h over it and am not mad, but I dislike the fact that I'm easily spammed every time I decide to use a right swing.

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #241 on: January 09, 2012, 08:25:10 am »
-1
I guess that puts 2h on par with 1h, then :lol:

Offline Vibe

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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #242 on: January 09, 2012, 09:25:31 am »
0
I guess that puts 2h on par with 1h, then :lol:

Not true. You can't be spammed so easily when you use a 1h right swing.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 09:27:48 am by Vibe »

Offline Camaris

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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #243 on: January 09, 2012, 10:30:20 am »
0
I used some hours on duel to change my playstyle from using many right swings to using many  left swings. After you´ve done that you will be ok. Right Swing is now just a occasional attack you have to place well, while you are spamming left swings.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #244 on: January 09, 2012, 10:45:08 am »
0
Well I just hope the next hiltslash solution targets only hiltslashing, not 2h basic swings.

PS: Am I the only one experiencing weapon getting stuck in chamber when right swinging (aka click to attack, release click, weapon still in chamber)?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 10:46:29 am by Vibe »

Offline Nessaj

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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #245 on: January 09, 2012, 11:04:59 am »
0
I don't mind balance, but with the right hand swing it just feels so sluggish now, and I hate playing things where it feels as if there's a delay between what I want to do and what happens on the screen, it just feels wrong, like writing on a slow computer that can't keep up with your typing. It becomes an annoyance then, and I'd rather switch to something more enjoyable where "what I want" happens instantly.

I've always preferred 2hand/polearms because of manual blocking, not that I dislike 1hand/shield but just the fact I would have a shield means right click means full block, it is just not as fulfilling as having to actually perform with each block. That said, 1hand/shield has always been great, just not (except for in a few periods) the most used specialization, everyone likes big weapons that look cool :).

Old School 1hand+shield rocking:
(click to show/hide)




I guess that puts 2h on par with 1h, then :lol:

:lol: indeed.

1Hand/Shield is superior to 2hand on battle. You meet someone with a shield-breaker (polearm)? Put your shield on your back, unless you're using heavy armor or a high STR spec on your 1hand character you'll be able to do just as fine and in some situations much better than a 2hand character, not to mention you always have your sturdy shield for ranged.

Any consistent 2hander would be able to pull of the same if not better with a 1hand character (some swords have over +100 length too).

In essence it is all about footwork though, not about "sword skills" really but obviously without some blocking skills and a few fancy moves you won't get too far.




I used some hours on duel to change my playstyle from using many right swings to using many  left swings. After you´ve done that you will be ok. Right Swing is now just a occasional attack you have to place well, while you are spamming left swings.

Right Swing still works somewhat OK, instead of turning into your swing now you side step to the left (granted that the guy you're fighting keeps going straight), aim for the tip of your right hand swing to hit the other guy.

I likewise am forcing my self to use Left Swing as much as possible now though. Gotta watch both doing the Thrust at wrong times (gets stuck and gives the enemy a free hit) and now Right Swing.
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Offline Dezilagel

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Why the rightswing 2h/pole animation nerf should be reverted
« Reply #246 on: January 09, 2012, 11:11:43 am »
+4
For a start:

Yes I'm a polearmer and yes I'm a frequent visitor to the duel servers and enjoy duelling quite a lot in general and so my opinion is completely and utterly biased.

While hiltslashing was never a *problem* in my opinion (counterable, hard to master, fun), "fixing" it might have been warranted for ping reasons and other - fine. But this fix only solved the problem partly, worsened it in some aspects and caused a lot of collateral damage.

I will try to outline the main issues:

1. Only solved part of the problem

Hiltslashing is still very much possible, although more effective from one direction so it's become more situational. But still. All those high-ping players who have problems with incorrect positioning will still suffer while the low-ping players just get an easier time countering something that was already counterable.

2. Worsened it in some aspects

By making the rightswing the piece of garbage that it is now for both 2h and pole, you made hiltslashes harder to counter. One of the ways of countering a hiltslash was to do what they did but reversed and step into a turned sideswing. Now that option is basically just gone for the rightswing of 2h and pole. I can't speak about the 2h leftswing due to lack of experience but the pole leftswing was always complete garbage (slow, short and awkward) and thus I no longer have the option to counter hiltslashes with anything but the stab. And while I manage fine with my heirloomed poleaxe (33 points of stab damage), a lot of weapons will be extremely vulnerable to hiltslashes with this change.

3. Collateral damage.

One word: Spam.

While getting hiltslashed can suck indeed, getting spammed because your animation is so shite sucks infinitely more. Fighting onehanders with their leftswing/overhead and speed is a pain now, and while here again I remedy the problem by stabbing (an option not available to everyone) it's still bullshit and makes fighting as a 2h/pole, ironically, much, much harder for high ping players on a shitty connection. People are strafing to the left like crazy now just to exploit this weak animation and it leads to stale and boring melee combat. I find myself stabspamming especially polearms but also 2h now to *great* effect, something that just should not be.

4. Looks retarded

No, I couldn't find better words for it. While this could be viewed as quite a pointless argument both the pole and the 2h right swing (especially the 2h) look really awkward. The polearm animation is just really slow and the 2h looks like you're freezing for half a sec. While the awkward look I would cope with any day if it improved gameplay, these looks worsened it. Rightswing holds are now pretty useless for example.

5. Slooooooower

The general trend of melee combat that is. A quick glimpse at the servers and it's pretty obvious that people grasp the basics of melee just fine. Even an untagged peasant nowadays usually blocks a few swings and retaliates. What we need is no longer a bigger window for people to climb in, but rather a bigger room for development imo. Mod is still addictive as fuck, but it starts to feel a bit tedious when you reach a certain level.


(click to show/hide)

Sorry for any mistakes, I put this together in a rush. I will add more when I get the time, but this is at least a brief sketch of what I find wrong with this recent change.

EDIT: ...really? was it that horrible?  :cry:
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 11:18:34 am by Dezilagel »
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #247 on: January 09, 2012, 11:14:59 am »
0

Offline Espu

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Re: Why the rightswing 2h/pole animation nerf should be reverted
« Reply #248 on: January 09, 2012, 11:17:43 am »
0
For a start:

Merged, stick to the existing thread. No need to create a new one.

Offline Nessaj

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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #249 on: January 09, 2012, 11:20:29 am »
0
Read what i quoted.

The point was :lol: = LOL = "Lol indeed"

So I was just doing a "play on words" with you ;)
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #250 on: January 09, 2012, 11:32:31 am »
0
The point was that i wasn't saying anything about 1h performance or such, just the right swing animation.

Offline Dezilagel

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Re: Why the rightswing 2h/pole animation nerf should be reverted
« Reply #251 on: January 09, 2012, 11:40:32 am »
0
Merged, stick to the existing thread. No need to create a new one.

Well, um I thought this was the "um wtf just happened" thread while my thread was supposed to be about why it's bad, but mkay.

---------------------

Btw the polearm - shielder balance padagrim is terrible now. With the rightswing nerfed you're forced to stab them to avoid leftswing spams which especially with heavy shields causes a lot of thruststuns. Please fix this.
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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #252 on: January 09, 2012, 11:42:19 am »
0
As opposed to shielders having to leftswing constantly to avoid getting spammed by any attack before.

Offline Dezilagel

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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #253 on: January 09, 2012, 11:44:53 am »
0
As opposed to shielders having to leftswing constantly to avoid getting spammed by any attack before.

 :rolleyes:

I've played quite a lot of 1h and that is definitively not the case
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Re: Did they change the 2h right swing?
« Reply #254 on: January 09, 2012, 11:46:34 am »
0
It is the case against a lot of builds/players/weapons.