Did they change the 2h right swing?

[BlackMilk]

You know what I don't understand? For about one week, no one even noticed the change. Then when the OP made this post and the devs confirmed it, suddenly people started crying how unplayable it is, threatening to respec to polearms (that one's a favorite) or quit.
What happened in the days before the post? Surely if this was such a gamebreaking change people would have noticed it earlier... or was everyone taking a break from cRPG?

Anyway, we thought of a better way to fix hiltslashing that doesn't involve weapon speed reduction. It's slightly harder to implement, but when/if it's done, this nerf will have no more reason to exist.

Some of the best and most active 2handers complained about this earlier ("wtf happened to hiltslash its impossible now")

[Paul]

I buy 2h MW, 5k each.

[CrazyCracka420]

"increase swing speed across the board to increase individual player skill" is just a hackneyed phrase with no balance thought behind it. The proper way to start thinking about increasing overall speed involves proficiency curve and individual weapon stat changes, and possibly more.

The thing is, I disagree with an across the board speed increase. Coincidentally, most of the people complaining about the slowness are 2h/polearm duelists, just like most of the players complaining about the lance rotation lock are cavalry and just like most of the players complaining about reduced arrow velocity are archers. Now reverse the situation and try asking an archer what he thinks about 2h/polearm speed, a cavalryman about reduced arrow velocity, and an infantryman about lance rotation lock.

cynic tl;dr: egoist whiners gonna whine

I'm a lancer, and I like the reduced lance radius (I think it's too small of a radius, but it's better than being able to stab behind my horse as I'm running full speed forward and murder people).  That being said, it'd be nice if I could turn my hand around on the lance and stab downward when my horse is stopped.

The things you mentioned ARE the things the developers should be tweaking for balance.  However, you get into problems and alienate long time players when you start changing requirements for equipment, or change the stats on equipment significantly.  This means that people who have heirloomed their item 3 times now don't want it because it's no longer the same item.  Same for changing difficulty on equipment, if someone has heirloomed an item 3 times, and now they can't use it because you change the difficulty from 4 to 6, you just alienated a long time player.

Some of the best and most active 2handers complained about this earlier ("wtf happened to hiltslash its impossible now")

Well that has been said in game yes, but the big problem is that the dev's only get feedback from the forums.  So all the people who think the game is just great the way it is and don't want things nerfed never get heard.  I think that's a false positive when the dev's hear feedback on the forums.  Only the people who don't like something really ever chime in on the forums.  You know what they say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. 

[Phyrex]

Why is polestun a problem? Why does it need to be removed?
Answer that and you have your answer. Oh and it's nerfed, not removed, because hiltslashing is still possible.

Actually, believe it or not, Cmp, I want polestun to remain as it is. Sure I've raged(Really hard ) over TS when Tor spinthrusted me in the gut with his axe and then cleaved my face afterwards with no escape from an instant death. But, polestun is there for a reason. Some would say the "inferior" polearm animations, but I believe it all comes down to the fact that polearms are designed as a support weapon. They're slow, hard-hitting with excellent versatility, the perfect support weapon.(Or used to be atleast, in Native.) Polearms and two-handed needs to be unique and not a clone of eachother.

Hiltslashing has done nothing to the game except adding more depth to the otherwise shallow combat gameplay. It breaks the stalemate of the hit-block-hit-block scenario. Also, hiltslashing(Or any form of spam) can always be countered by your own strikes, you don't ever need to block twice.

Just a gut feeling. And player count according to stats.

See first question.

I don't think it's about superior weapon classes. The very same people I would defeat with my 2h sword would die to me if I were using a 1h weapon. I think it comes down to personal style and looks. Toss in a bit of psychology too, think of the word "medieval" and the first thing that would pop up in your mind would most likely be a castle, a knight or a sword. That's what I did when I started, big swords are way more bad-ass then some sissy french polearm.

Most people want to be the hero and he does not wield a spear.

[CrazyCracka420]

I seem to do really well in a supporting role as sword and board and spear.  If I wasn't a cav build with only 5 power strike, and my main class was footman, you could easily be the hero with a sword/board and spear.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

You are aware I was on your side for the archery nerfs? I am just asking for justification for these ones.

Nothing against you^^

It's just that all the people here are crying for reasons etc, which I can fully understand, but most people never cared about the fact that archers also would have liked to know the "why" and that archery was nerfed patch after patch.
And now that their own class received a nerf, everyone is just complaining and whining, because it is their class..

There are people (Ujin comes to my mind on that), who think about balance in general and defend other classes than their own and also suggest nerfs or changes to their own classes.
Probably you as well, just don't remember it.

But as I said, most people only talk about balance when it concerns their own class or maybe a buff to another one, which could then "beat" their class 

But, polestun is there for a reason. Some would say the "inferior" polearm animations, but I believe it all comes down to the fact that polearms are designed as a support weapon. They're slow, hard-hitting with excellent versatility

If they were slow at least.....Most polearms in this game are swung as fast as 2h and people are just spamming around with them....worst thing is walking to your side and then swinging in an angle which would never be possible in real life (yes I talk about real life, live with it people  )

[cmp]

Actually, believe it or not, Cmp, I want polestun to remain as it is. Sure I've raged(Really hard ) over TS when Tor spinthrusted me in the gut with his axe and then cleaved my face afterwards with no escape from an instant death. But, polestun is there for a reason. Some would say the "inferior" polearm animations, but I believe it all comes down to the fact that polearms are designed as a support weapon. They're slow, hard-hitting with excellent versatility, the perfect support weapon.(Or used to be atleast, in Native.) Polearms and two-handed needs to be unique and not a clone of eachother.

Hiltslashing has done nothing to the game except adding more depth to the otherwise shallow combat gameplay. It breaks the stalemate of the hit-block-hit-block scenario. Also, hiltslashing(Or any form of spam) can always be countered by your own strikes, you don't ever need to block twice.

Then I guess it just comes down to a matter of different opinions; you think things like hiltslash and spinthrust add depth to the combat, I think they make it sillier.

[CaptainQuantum]

Probably you as well, just don't remember it.

I was the person who got the longbow buffed after the slot change by using approximations to the warband damage equations (this is before I got my hands on the actual ones courtesy of Urist) to show unambiguously the unbalance. Admittedly back then I was an archer, but I generally try to rebel against archery nerfs I disagree with still. I am a 2h who understands archers should have an easy job killing me since you're my counter.

On what Phyrex said, yes polestun is retarded and maybe it should stay, but if it does poles need a massive nerf. Polearms should not be equal to 2h in terms of dueling like they currently are since poles are support weapons. Poles instead have versatility, you can use the WPF for lancing, piking, slash polearms. Some of the good dueling polearms are also rather cheap in comparison to their 2h counterparts. Not to mention a lot of the high tier polearms have multiple roles, for example the poleaxe can be used for dueling, stabbing and shield breaking. Polearms tend to have heavier weights than other 2h, allowing for block stun too. Now comparing to the benefits of 2h, animations have more length, a nice stab to enable cavalry countering with enough skill and animations are more fluid for feinting (this last point isn't all that important since the pole animations can be easily feinted due to unfamiliarity).

To cmp, yes lolstabs look stupid, but I am afraid nerfing the stab to complete retardness so thats the only useful thing about that move is not a good idea. Also have you seen how abusable and silly the pole stab looks when spun? On the other hand the hiltslash doesn't look silly on 2h at least, on the pole it looks rather stupid.

[Ninja_Khorin]

I can't say I've exactly noticed the nerf that much(mainly because I've never figured out what people mean by hiltslash, people say I do it, but it's not a conscious act.)

But now that you say it, I guess it feels a little different.

(click to show/hide)

Okay, you're the one, Phyrex can be second, after him, let's see:

3. Atze,
4. Cicero (permabanned),
5. Tyr maybe,
6. Tempest,
7. Phase,
8. Vibe,
9. Jormglorm,
10. Kastu,
11. Khorin,
12. Bjord (has no PC)

Yeah I was wrong, there is more than 10 but I'm not sure how many more. I'm pretty sure there is less than 30 member of that lobby which is pretty weak compared to ranged folks.

The first weapon I bought was a wooden longsword. The second weapon I bought was a katana. And that has been my weapon ever since.

I picked a style and I live with it. It was never about creating the optimized character, and that might be why I've stuck with it. Come nerfs or buffs. I guess what hit me the most was the decrease of katana's weight from 2.0 to 1.3. Fighting other polearms or 2handers is a lot harder when you get stunned so often nowadays.
The only thing that will make me stop playing 2h is the removal of the katana, and if that happens, I doubt I'd continue playing cRPG at all.

(click to show/hide)

I don't think it's about superior weapon classes. The very same people I would defeat with my 2h sword would die to me if I were using a 1h weapon. I think it comes down to personal style and looks. Toss in a bit of psychology too, think of the word "medieval" and the first thing that would pop up in your mind would most likely be a castle, a knight or a sword. That's what I did when I started, big swords are way more bad-ass then some sissy french polearm.

Most people want to be the hero and he does not wield a spear.

Agree with Phyrex. Polearm and 2h should feel different and I respect anyone who chooses a style and sticks with it no matter what the devs decide. (Bars was a sad case. Completely ruined his style and made him a normal goon :/ And now only the odd strat battle uses the Long Voulge)

And I had problems choosing whether to be a ninja with a war spear or a katana. But katana won eventually because it looked better when sheathed and Thomek influenced me too of course(even though I wasn't a ninja back then). Fighting with spears is totally badass, but the animations look horrible for spears so I can't get in to it and they're also too short, a slightly shorter bamboo spear-like weapon with side swings would be appreciated). So not all consider Spears to be non-heroic ;)

http://youtu.be/iVuou-H9M4w?t=44s
It can be pretty badass(and yes, I realize this is not realistic)

[Zisa]

Fuck I guess you're too dense to answer simple fucking questions. What are your sources you dumb bastard? Is that clear enough? Or should I just take the word of some butthurt bundle of sticks whining that his favorite toy in a video game got nerfed? Yeah that sounds so much better and objective than a wiki article.

Any asshole including you can post on wikipedia, which makes unsubstantiated articles nothing but air.
If the part about 'wavy blade used for cutting through pikes' didn't make you cringe, you are indeed a stupid sack of shite who deserves to believe it. Since Goggle now tries to be 'intelligent' it often produces some shitty searches, or have you not noticed. Not MY job to do research for some fucking idiot (your butt buddy and you).

Again, Shik probably has some links that are useful as mentioned before.

It ain't just 'my favourite toy' that got nerfed but 2handers across the board, but shit heads like you want to call it whining?

Oh, and fuck off, last time I saw yer conceited looking avatar you were again trying to score points on the internet on some marginally related point in some other argument.

[isatis]

I buy 2h MW, 5k each.

lol

[Candiru]

Damn google translate doesent work for this forum xD

[CaptainQuantum]

I used to be a two-hander, but then it got nerfed lul

Blackmilk beat you to the defection, but do you remember the last time you went pole? You forgot what manual block was for like a week

Edit: Damn it you changed your post, the quote it know relating to something not yet stated in this thread.

[Candiru]

Blackmilk beat you to the defection, but do you remember the last time you went pole? You forgot what manual block was for like a week

Yeah I know. Just realised that GTXting isn't the best option. A bit too late though.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

I was the person who got the longbow buffed after the slot change by using approximations to the warband damage equations (this is before I got my hands on the actual ones courtesy of Urist) to show unambiguously the unbalance. Admittedly back then I was an archer, but I generally try to rebel against archery nerfs I disagree with still. I am a 2h who understands archers should have an easy job killing me since you're my counter.

What buff?^^

Btw, go get us a longbow  +1 or +2 speedbuff so the delay finally is gone