Possible new feature: different hilt/blade damage

[Vibe]

You could, but its about mechanical advantage isn't it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_advantage

If I want to apply the most force I don't use a small stick, and if I twat someone on the head with the end I could crush his skull, hit him near my hands and I might just hurt him. You can get more momentum and more force at the end.

Or is this troll science? My brain hurts

You get more speed but that doesn't mean more force. F = m * a

a is higher at the tip of the sword, but the mass peak is close to the hilt.

[Xant]

Or is this troll science? My brain hurts

at least the pain isn't spread over a very large area

[Molly]

We basicly have 2 cases, right?

Swinging sword till impact and sword pressed against armor.

Swinging sword clearly damages more the further the impact is UP on the blade.
Pressed sword against armor won't do any noticable damage at all in reality. Maybe scratching the plate a little but that's it. I can't believe that you really think you are strong enough to do more than just a dent into some plate by ONLY using the muscular strength of a human. The whole point about a sword is the use of angular speed to multiply the energy a human body is able to produce.
Otherwise they could just get a big rock and start slamming those at each other but... well, they didnt.
And hitting with the hilt of the sword while swinging is doing less damage than hitting with the tip and simply because the speed of the hilt is way lower than the speed of the tip.
The "kept pressure on impact" sucks too cuz there is something called "inelastic collision" which applies here for the most part. Just do an experiment: hit with a normal hammer on a big stone and tell me afterwards if you were able to keep up any pressure AFTER the impact. Oww, and post some pictures of your hand after half an hour after doing this "experiment". Gonna be fun to see...

This will be my last post on this matter cuz I get the impression that some people just don't wanna accept reality (simple physics at this point). They are probably those kids in school who sucked at math but were always really good in drawing and dancing. Pointless discussion when the other side tries to argument by using examples of cheese... 

[Christo]

at least the pain isn't spread over a very large area

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[TurmoilTom]

Or is this troll science? My brain hurts

At least it isn't Rocket Surgery. I heard that's pretty tough.

[Christo]

Rocket Surgery.

O.o

I just imagined that.

[Xant]

We basicly have 2 cases, right?

Swinging sword till impact and sword pressed against armor.

Swinging sword clearly damages more the further the impact is UP on the blade.
Pressed sword against armor won't do any noticable damage at all in reality. Maybe scratching the plate a little but that's it. I can't believe that you really think you are strong enough to do more than just a dent into some plate by ONLY using the muscular strength of a human. The whole point about a sword is the use of angular speed to multiply the energy a human body is able to produce.
Otherwise they could just get a big rock and start slamming those at each other but... well, they didnt.
And hitting with the hilt of the sword while swinging is doing less damage than hitting with the tip and simply because the speed of the hilt is way lower than the speed of the tip.
The "kept pressure on impact" sucks too cuz there is something called "inelastic collision" which applies here for the most part. Just do an experiment: hit with a normal hammer on a big stone and tell me afterwards if you were able to keep up any pressure AFTER the impact. Oww, and post some pictures of your hand after half an hour after doing this "experiment". Gonna be fun to see...

This will be my last post on this matter cuz I get the impression that some people just don't wanna accept reality (simple physics at this point). They are probably those kids in school who sucked at math but were always really good in drawing and dancing. Pointless discussion when the other side tries to argument by using examples of cheese... 

the amount of red herring fallacies in this post is staggering

[cmp]

Guys can you please move your very interesting discussion to the Physics forum? This one is about people worshiping me.

(click to show/hide)

Seriously, stop spamming.

If this means fps drop then no.

Damage calculation is done entirely on the server, and even then it's ridiculously cheap compared to other tasks. There wouldn't be any FPS drop because of this.

While this is a cool idea, it would promote rolling high-ath builds for the sole purpose of backpedalling, so that you can keep the enemy near the tip of your weapon. That is one of the least interesting melee playstyles.

Not if we give melee weapons the same backpedaling penalty as ranged (reduced backward speed while readying and releasing).

If it's well implemented this could be a really cool feature and offer up tons of possibilities for weapon balancing/different styles of play.


However, if you're trying for this...

(which the turnnerf seems to suggest  )

I wasn't really going for that, no. I certainly don't mind more teamplay, but I find rock-paper-scissor too much restrictive and also boring.

This feature is already in the mod Vikingr and it's a nice change.

Sort of, although in Vikingr you only get a damage reduction. That can be easily modded in, while changing damage type requires work on the engine side.

If 2h axes get the hilt hit thingy too than they'd need a buff. I'd really like to have an additional damage type(like pierce-cut or blunt-cut) for them so they don't have to use the same (drawn) cut damage type of gaytana or scimibah.

Since this feature would probably require a complete item rebalance anyway, it might be a good time to change the damage system overall and introduce split damage types.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Looks like you would do some blunt damage with the shaft of the weapon rather than the same damage as the bladed end

Looks like a pretty neat feature, but it might be a bit of a nerf for polearms

It will be but all you have to do is jack the dmg up for pole arms. That way you get a sweet sweet pay off for actually landing the shot. It will make them even more of a support weapon except for those among us with the ability to use kicks and chambers, but still awesome job hope it works

Also when will see full scale clang integration?

[Vibe]

We basicly have 2 cases, right?

Swinging sword till impact and sword pressed against armor.

Swinging sword clearly damages more the further the impact is UP on the blade.
Pressed sword against armor won't do any noticable damage at all in reality. Maybe scratching the plate a little but that's it. I can't believe that you really think you are strong enough to do more than just a dent into some plate by ONLY using the muscular strength of a human. The whole point about a sword is the use of angular speed to multiply the energy a human body is able to produce.
Otherwise they could just get a big rock and start slamming those at each other but... well, they didnt.
And hitting with the hilt of the sword while swinging is doing less damage than hitting with the tip and simply because the speed of the hilt is way lower than the speed of the tip.
The "kept pressure on impact" sucks too cuz there is something called "inelastic collision" which applies here for the most part. Just do an experiment: hit with a normal hammer on a big stone and tell me afterwards if you were able to keep up any pressure AFTER the impact. Oww, and post some pictures of your hand after half an hour after doing this "experiment". Gonna be fun to see...

This will be my last post on this matter cuz I get the impression that some people just don't wanna accept reality (simple physics at this point). They are probably those kids in school who sucked at math but were always really good in drawing and dancing. Pointless discussion when the other side tries to argument by using examples of cheese... 

lol wut, so basically what you're saying is that it does not matter how strong you are when you swing a sword (unless ofcourse it's a really heavy sword). How much additional force you put in when the sword hits the target matters.

Oh also, if you hit with just the tip at high speed, what do you think will happen? The tip will just bounce off and you're hand will keep on moving forward causing you to drop the sword in the worst case. The hammer experiment suggestion is retarded at best.

[[ptx]]

Since this feature would probably require a complete item rebalance anyway, it might be a good time to change the damage system overall and introduce split damage types.

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[Thomek]

If the sword is perfectly and ideally stiff, the energy released at impact with be the same 1cm from the fulcrum and 10m from the fulcrum.

The speed is higher at the tip, but the inertia is lower, and vice versa close to the fulcrum. The energy is the same.

Without knowing how the physics of an armor hit works, a hit closer to the fulcrum would have more of a "push" effect, and the tip more of a "cut" effect.

Something about the fibers in the armor having time to adjust to the sudden pressure because of their mass and inertia?

If that feature is going in then polearms would get a significant disadvantage which is ok if compensated correctly. I'd set the blunt damage for hilt hits of head-heavy polearms rather low(15b-ish) so getting into infight is really bad for them.  In compensation I'd make it so that polearms suffer less from the turn limit than 2h because of the wider grip that gives more control over the weapon.

If 2h axes get the hilt hit thingy too than they'd need a buff. I'd really like to have an additional damage type(like pierce-cut or blunt-cut) for them so they don't have to use the same (drawn) cut damage type of gaytana or scimibah.

Paul, long weapons are overused and OP for too many reasons already. They should be more clumsy, and the QQ'ing DGS duelists should go for something more suitable for dueling like longswords.

"QQ Combat is so slow, everything is so nerfed!!" -Said the guy who brings a giant-ass sword to EU3..
Fast, intense dueling combat is perfectly possible in cRPG already, problem is they all insist on using DGS and wearing Kuyak+ to do it.

[TurmoilTom]

O.o

I just imagined that.

How did you imagine it? What was it like? The first time I thought about it, I imagined a dude trying to repair a nuclear missile with a scalpel.

[Tzar]

I wasn't really going for that, no. I certainly don't mind more teamplay, but I find rock-paper-scissor too much restrictive and also boring.

Thank god

[Vibe]

If the sword is perfectly and ideally stiff, the energy released at impact with be the same 1cm from the fulcrum and 10m from the fulcrum.

The speed is higher at the tip, but the inertia is lower, and vice versa close to the fulcrum. The energy is the same.

Without knowing how the physics of an armor hit works, a hit closer to the fulcrum would have more of a "push" effect, and the tip more of a "cut" effect.

Something about the fibers in the armor having time to adjust to the sudden pressure because of their mass and inertia?

Yes basically this. Completely viable to swing a large sword and hit with the tip if you're against a naked guy, you'll still cut him (you will have speed but less force behind the swing). If you're up against plate you're better of getting the impact closer to the hilt.