That AK-47 looks very nice. Would adopt.
I don't understand how you derive pride or self worth from how many firearms you own.Protip: people don't buy 30+ guns because they're afraid or to defend themselves, you can only shoot one rifle at a time...
Are you a short guy? Small penis? Afraid the world is out to get you? Do drive a large vehicle and are you also religious? Do you live in a war zone? Do people regularly get murdered and assaulted where you live?
I get sport shooting, I get hunting, I get personal protection, but I don't understand people collecting firearms like their rocks.
I don't understand how you derive pride or self worth from how many firearms you own.
Are you a short guy? Small penis? Afraid the world is out to get you? Do drive a large vehicle and are you also religious? Do you live in a war zone? Do people regularly get murdered and assaulted where you live?
I get sport shooting, I get hunting, I get personal protection, but I don't understand people collecting firearms like their rocks.
As you said, you can only shoot one firearm at a time. I can understand someone having shotguns and rifles and hand guns and using them for different uses. I don't understand having 31 firearms though. What would possess someone to own so many, I don't get it.Because they are different. They look different and shooting them is different. People like collecting things in general. Books, stamps, cars, STDs, old games... and you can only drive one car at a time! Drive one car at a time! Play one game at a time! Why do you need more than one? I will concede that you can at least enjoy several STDs at a time.
I don't smoke any more, and I had one smallish glass piece I'd smoke out of. It seems like the mentality is one of being scared and frightened, that would make someone think they need to carry a firearm concealed wherever they go (which I'm not saying you do), or to stock pile so many weapons.
How much does that AK-47 weight, by the way? I like our military's AK-clone otherwise, but the weight and its distribution is horrible for urban environments where you have to keep your rifle aimed high all the time.
Baseball cards don't protect you, stamps don't protect you. Their sole purpose is not to kill. So I don't think it's unreasonable to think someone who carries a firearm everywhere is a fearful person. I think that's what it comes down to. And that's what I've personally witnessed from friends and family who choose to carry a concealed weapon. I personally have nothing to fear, and think that carrying around a firearm is going to potentially be more harmful than any possible random encounter I may experience. I'm not afraid of the world, and I'm not afraid of walking down the street. Should something happen, I'll deal with it without resorting to needing a weapon. But then again, I don't put myself in those situations to begin with.
I shoot for sport with my father in law (who's a lifer in the army and owns a few shotguns, rifles and hand guns), I would be open to hunting as well but it's just not my thing. But stock piling weapons and ammo or carrying a gun around everywhere you go, I will never understand (unless it's the whole fearful thing as I suspect).
Also, carrying a firearm is worlds apart from collecting firearms. And anyone who is allowed to carry concealed and doesn't is an idiot.
I'm not afraid of the world, and I'm not afraid of walking down the street. Should something happen, I'll deal with it without resorting to needing a weapon. But then again, I don't put myself in those situations to begin with.You'll deal with it to the best of your ability, you mean. Which might not mean much if you're against someone/multiple someones who are armed. I'm not terribly concerned for myself either, though I'd prefer to be on equal footing, so I would still carry, but the reason I said anyone who could carry but doesn't is an idiot is because it's not just you that you protect by having a firearm.
You'll deal with it to the best of your ability, you mean. Which might not mean much if you're against someone/multiple someones who are armed. I'm not terribly concerned for myself either, though I'd prefer to be on equal footing, so I would still carry, but the reason I said anyone who could carry but doesn't is an idiot is because it's not just you that you protect by having a firearm.
You protect everyone around you. I don't know about you, but if something went down and I couldn't stop it because I didn't have a firearm, I'd feel stupid as fuck, to put it lightly. This goes doubly for when I'm around family or those I care about. Failure to protect them isn't acceptable. But again, maybe you'd be cool with not taking responsibility for something you could've stopped if only you carried... but that wouldn't be much consolation to me if a family member was dead because of my inability.
Personally, it's about probability. Looking at gun violence rates, I would definitely carry if I lived in Washington D.C. I would never really carry in Vermont. It's also a question of the neighborhoods you go to and the people in your area. If you know the violent crime rate sucks, carry. If it doesn't, why bother? Just get a good lawyer.
There's a tiny part of me that's scared every time I drive a car (which is way too much, at roughly three times) because I realize I could kill someone fairly easily with one.
The same part of me would think the same way with a firearm, I imagine. Or what if you're drunk and you happen to be carrying? Is that wise?
It's all about context, to me.
I'm sorry antiblitz, I'm being a douchebag here and it's unwarranted.
I'm ascribing beliefs and personalities of people I know to you and I don't know anything about you. I don't know what you do for a living, I don't know the socio-economic's of where you live, I don't know if you've made enemies over the years who would do harm to you.
I know from my experience and from where I live, that 99% of the people I know who carry a concealed weapon, have no reason to.
Which state do you live in, by the way? Any of that magazine-limit bullshit there? Because 30-round magazines kill people, but 15-round ones don't.
There's a special dislike I reserve for the AR-15. Unless that thing has a piston operating system vs. a gas system, which is prohibitively expensive, so you might as well go with the AK anyway.
Maryland, it has a law stating one cannot sell them within the state, however going into Pennsylvania you can purchase them(this is similar to the stupid firework laws we have, people from PA come to MD to buy and vice versa, and then drive back to their respective states). The only law about magazine limits refer to the use of them during a crime, similar to body armor, you may own body armor, but wearing it during a crime is another offense.... What makes a rifle an "assault" style weapon? Those are some very interesting laws to be certain.
mine is gas operated, id like a piston operate one, however i dont have the cash for that currently, and the sale of "assault" style weapons have just been banned within the state of Maryland, so you can no longer purchase them within the state if they have a "assault" look. Kinda silly really, because you can just put a wood stock, and forgrip on it, and then sell it as a varmint rifle, then that same person can take the wood off and put the parts back on it after purchase.
I like your car. Is it the X?
... What makes a rifle an "assault" style weapon? Those are some very interesting laws to be certain.
MURICA
Damn, dat collection. I wouldn't want to be the burglar that decides to break in your home :)
Mad jelly right now, hope you like
ADDED WEIGHTS FOR YOU XANTSaw this. Yeah, exactly... the weight of the AK rests on your front hand, which is really fucking annoying when you're supposed to be aiming at windows or a roof for an hour. Having an M4-style rifle would be so much more handy.
the AK weighs 10lbs loaded with 30 rounds, the weight of the AK seems to rest in your front hand.
the AR weighs 7lbs loaded with 30 rounds, the weight seems to rest down from the trigger, which kind of balances the weight into both hands.
this would be my weapon of choice, but well I live in Germany :rolleyes:.
You can own a tank in America as well (at least in some states), just as long as there's no functional weaponry on board (well at least not the main gun, pretty sure you could legally mount a legal firearm to it).
for all you germans
Now that's weird. They would call me terrorist if i had just one of those pistols at home :lol:
Solution: Moving to murica!!
Nice collection you got there, do you also go hunting?
i would like to get a hunting licence soon or later.
I'm not German, u.u
Whatever, no harm done saying that :)
Again no harm done, but there's no Czechslovakia anymore, that's why the boston bomb feedbacks on social media were even more hilarious "bomb czechslovakia!" But their tank collectors are insane, really. :)
FiveSeven :)
I'm not sure if a gun really protects you more than it endangers you. I think it protects you well against unarmed people, but your chance of getting shot is probably higher if both the aggressor and you has a gun.
Also, it only really helps if they want to do harm. If they want to steal, just give them what they want and later call insurance.
i saw a post of you saying Nien when they were speaking about germans, i just labeled you at that point. I apologize, my eastern european geography is sub par, i couldnt tell you where half the countries are located honestly, have you ever done one of those geography jigsaws? those things are tough!
but your chance of getting shot is probably higher if both the aggressor and you has a gun.
I'm not sure if a gun really protects you more than it endangers you. I think it protects you well against unarmed people, but your chance of getting shot is probably higher if both the aggressor and you has a gun.Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you have to use it. That's why you carry concealed, not openly. If "the aggressor" is using their gun to actually shoot at people, then your chances of getting killed are obviously higher if you're unarmed...
Also, it only really helps if they want to do harm. If they want to steal, just give them what they want and later call insurance.
Man, that's pretty cool. I sadly only have a Czech Mauser, Russian Mosin, and a Smith and Wesson Hand gun. Step Father has a highly illegal shotgun.
My friend has an entire standard Cold War Era, Communist bloc, weapon set-up though.
That is ridiculous. Out of curiousity, what kind of price range are we talking about for the entire collection? I have no clue about prices for firearms.
sorry for the ubershit pic, put that was a quick one i took with my iphone(click to show/hide)
Been a long time since I've played table hockey!
I prefer foosball, but beggars can't be choosers.
Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you have to use it. That's why you carry concealed, not openly. If "the aggressor" is using their gun to actually shoot at people, then your chances of getting killed are obviously higher if you're unarmed...Of course. But how often does that happen? Even criminals don't randomly shoot people, if they can avoid it. Mostly weapons are not used to kill, but to enforce. In such a situation, a challenge by another weapon might lead to an unnecessary escalation. That's why I think it's better to not have a weapon (or not use it, if you have one and find yourself in such a situation, but if you DO have one, the temptation of pulling it might be too great).
And you don't know when you're just being robbed, or if the robbery is going to turn into a robbery-murder. A gun also "helps" even if they only just want to rob you. I'd rather keep my stuff than call insurance.Most robberies are not robbery-murders. And what if he pulls while you are threatening him with your gun, and you are distracted or not fast enough? I'd rather have my stuff stolen and replaced by insurance than getting shot at. Then there are the legal consequences of shooting someone. Maybe it was just a teenager with a soft gun? Sure, you probably won't be in trouble even then, but it's still an unnecessary loss of a life.
ya surprisingly i dont own a Mosin, kinda sad really considering how cheap they are. Legality can be bought lol, as weird as that sounds, if he sawed off the barrel to the shotgun(i'd prolly not show that one off too much), it becomes classified as a class III firearm, which in turn requires you to have a federal firearms license, which would also allow you to purchase "machine guns".
I'm currently on the look out for a Mosin, though I'm also considering the Ruger Mini 14. All depends, I guess, on what I find first. It's weird that I've never encountered any 'round here.
Of course. But how often does that happen? Even criminals don't randomly shoot people, if they can avoid it. Mostly weapons are not used to kill, but to enforce. In such a situation, a challenge by another weapon might lead to an unnecessary escalation. That's why I think it's better to not have a weapon (or not use it, if you have one and find yourself in such a situation, but if you DO have one, the temptation of pulling it might be too great).
Most robberies are not robbery-murders. And what if he pulls while you are threatening him with your gun, and you are distracted or not fast enough? I'd rather have my stuff stolen and replaced by insurance than getting shot at. Then there are the legal consequences of shooting someone. Maybe it was just a teenager with a soft gun? Sure, you probably won't be in trouble even then, but it's still an unnecessary loss of a life.
the screws missing on that kershaw volt sadlyi carry a Kershaw, quite nice for 50 bucks
(click to show/hide)
I'm all for self defense, but come on, what was the point of shooting him like 6 times there?
Maybe I don't get something. I don't know.
I'm all for self defense, but come on, what was the point of shooting him like 6 times there?
Maybe I don't get something. I don't know.
Of course. But how often does that happen? Even criminals don't randomly shoot people, if they can avoid it. Mostly weapons are not used to kill, but to enforce. In such a situation, a challenge by another weapon might lead to an unnecessary escalation. That's why I think it's better to not have a weapon (or not use it, if you have one and find yourself in such a situation, but if you DO have one, the temptation of pulling it might be too great).You mean most criminals don't randomly shoot people. I'm not going to leave my life in the hands of a random criminal without having any say in it: I'd rather take my chances with drawing my own gun.
Most robberies are not robbery-murders. And what if he pulls while you are threatening him with your gun, and you are distracted or not fast enough? I'd rather have my stuff stolen and replaced by insurance than getting shot at. Then there are the legal consequences of shooting someone. Maybe it was just a teenager with a soft gun? Sure, you probably won't be in trouble even then, but it's still an unnecessary loss of a life.Of course most robberies aren't robbery-murders. But statistics are not a shield. Something being less likely will not make you any less dead. If he pulls while you're threatening him with your gun and you're not fast enough, then you might get shot. This is not a very likely scenario if you are proficient with a firearm and trained at all, but obviously you can construct all kinds of "what if" scenarios. There are risks associated with taking control of your own fate - but at least you are now actively doing something to influence the outcome of the situation, instead of having blind faith on the fact that it's statistically improbable to get murdered. That never helped murder victims.
But the officer wasn't attacked in any way?
It would be interesting to see statistics about attempted self defense gone wrong.
Also, I think people from different countries can never agree on this topic, since criminality rates vary wildly. I probably live in one of the safest places on Earth, so I guess that kind of influences my opinion.
I see, so people with different opinions are just uninformed. I think it's quite bold of you to extrapolate the situation in foreign countries from your own experiences. I thought you might at least give me that, but it seems guns must be universally good.im not saying you are uniformed, just not aware of what truly happens, similar to what every other random civilian thinks, i cant really blame anyone for their views, you only see what the media shows you. I'll try and give an example that maybe relates:
And if you seriously think it's okay to shoot someone that tells you he has a gun and is planning to shoot you with it, well, I hope I never meet you.
im not saying you are uniformed, just not aware of what truly happens, similar to what every other random civilian thinks, i cant really blame anyone for their views, you only see what the media shows you. I'll try and give an example that maybe relates:
I was dating this girl that lived a town over, she of course lived in what she thought was an upstanding neighborhood, little did she know 2 doors down, her neighbor was a sex offender, her neighbor a block over had an active warrant for burglarizing other homes within the same neighborhood, and just 2 blocks away was under investigation for robbing a liquor store, and then car jacking an elderly man. It just goes to show you, she had no idea of the things around her, she was completely oblivious and thought "everything is safe" when ya i guess it was, but is that really safe with those people around you?
as to the someone telling you they have a gun issue, ya if i walk up to you with a smile on my face and say it in a joking manor like we are pals, i understand what you are saying. But thats not what i meant, im saying you standing at an atm with your back turned, or you working at a store and someone says those things to you. You dont just naturally turn around and say, "oh you must be joking around". You normally shit yourself first and then do as they say as to avoid conflict.
Just as a social expirement, the next time you see a police officer, just walk up to him and tell him you have a loaded handgun and arent afraid to use it, or some other random one liner that instills your intent to harm him with a handgun. Let me know how it goes for you...
I don't know, how many ppl did she have to shoot on her way to work?you dont know that.....
I can tell you one thing with absolute certainty: He won't shoot me.
best place are gun meets, idk where you are, but when ive been to them, they are normally there by the crate load, like hundreds of them brand new in the crate with packing grease still on em.
you dont know that.....^ your post is quite invalid at this point(click to show/hide)
I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but since you cant understand you can just leave, not sure why you are here anyways.
See, and that's why I said the thing about different countries. Cops here are very different from your cops apparently. But you are right, it is time to leave, because I can see you don't value any discussion at all.
It is quite interesting, though, that pro gun people also usually seem to have a natural claim to being right all the time. Might makes right, I guess?
It doesn't matter about different cultures. Everyone makes a flight or fight reaction when their life is at stake. Generally speaking, if you make the sort of implication that Antiblitz said towards a cop, he would draw his weapon and tell you lay flat on your stomach (or whatever the search procedure is in your country). One sudden, even if accidental, movement is all you have to do before that fight switch kicks in and he fires.
I got my mosin, $160. Now you can't buy for less than $250. Even the ammo in 500 rounds is bloody 250 again. I could get it for 170...
Underage anime avatar, gun fascination, plays video games...future serial killer?
And if you seriously think it's okay to shoot someone that tells you he has a gun and is planning to shoot you with it, well, I hope I never meet you.
FN P90 and FN F2000 pure belgian craftmanship
pew pew
also, as non-'murrican i have never touched a gun, not even been close to one. yurop!
What are the gun laws like there?
FN P90 and FN F2000 pure belgian craftmanship
I'm all for self defense, but come on, what was the point of shooting him like 6 times there?
Maybe I don't get something. I don't know.
As a dumb euroboy that I am, I will never understand how some people consider such a large arsenal on firearms a completely normal thing and a law that acctually allows such things totally legit. I mean can you really blame me? A single random civilian owning such heat shocks us basically similar to if you gunnut americans found out that some country allowed every household to own mininukes.And I'll never understand why some people consider "a large arsenal" any more dangerous than a single firearm. And if it isn't any more dangerous, why wouldn't it be "normal"?
Like i said you cant truly comment on something without having been there or done it.
Indeed, my trenchant intelligence allows me to take part in many a conversation despite having little to no experience of the subject in practice.
Yes you can, just look at Xant.
Indeed, my trenchant intelligence allows me to take part in many a conversation despite having little to no experience of the subject in practice.
Alas, seeing as I have more experience with firearms than most people in this thread, your stab in the dark makes you look all but perspicacious.
Nice collection. Must have cost shitton of money too.
I have the two most important zombie apocalypse survival weapons (lol, really just best for my kind of hunting like foxes, wood grouse, willow grouse and other small game). A 22lr Sako rifle with silencer and a Lanber 12 gauge semi-auto. Might have gone with pump action on the shotgun, but I got that Lanber so cheap I couldn't really resist. I just restored and mildly modified the wooden stocks. Then cleaned the whole thing from bottom to top. Better than new. Makes really nice pattern with full choke.
Really should get another rifle next time since now I hunt moose too and have to borrow my father's gun for that. Thinking maybe .30-06 or .308win... Those are by far the most common ones here so the ammunition is cheaper to buy, especially with .308win. A .30-06 has more desirable trajectory and force to stop an animal as big as a moose. On the other hand with full metal jacket .308win you can still shoot a wood grouse without it exploding to thumb sized bits so it's not that easy to choose between these two.
inb4 "hunting is wrong", oh shut up you eat meat too.
Hunting is mostly fine. Sometimes it isn't. I'm not a very cowardly person in debates. Silencers are legal ?
Well I'll be moving to England this March, so I'll be able to experience this magical land of cotton candy forests called Europe soon enough :D. What are the gun laws like there?Fun fact for you: in England even the bobbies (cops) have no firearms.
Hunting is mostly fine. Sometimes it isn't. I'm not a very cowardly person in debates. Silencers are legal ?
Nice collection. Must have cost shitton of money too.
I have the two most important zombie apocalypse survival weapons (lol, really just best for my kind of hunting like foxes, wood grouse, willow grouse and other small game). A 22lr Sako rifle with silencer and a Lanber 12 gauge semi-auto. Might have gone with pump action on the shotgun, but I got that Lanber so cheap I couldn't really resist. I just restored and mildly modified the wooden stocks. Then cleaned the whole thing from bottom to top. Better than new. Makes really nice pattern with full choke.
Really should get another rifle next time since now I hunt moose too and have to borrow my father's gun for that. Thinking maybe .30-06 or .308win... Those are by far the most common ones here so the ammunition is cheaper to buy, especially with .308win. A .30-06 has more desirable trajectory and force to stop an animal as big as a moose. On the other hand with full metal jacket .308win you can still shoot a wood grouse without it exploding to thumb sized bits so it's not that easy to choose between these two.
inb4 "hunting is wrong", oh shut up you eat meat too.
FN P90 and FN F2000 pure belgian craftmanship
As a dumb euroboy that I am, I will never understand how some people consider such a large arsenal on firearms a completely normal thing and a law that acctually allows such things totally legit. I mean can you really blame me? A single random civilian owning such heat shocks us basically similar to if you gunnut americans found out that some country allowed every household to own mininukes.
Yes you can, just look at Xant.
Nice arsenal there but you should really change that avatar.
Fun fact for you: in England even the bobbies (cops) have no firearms.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398)
This is your video to prove your point about unnecessary escalation? What the flying fuck, he just murdered a dude without any physical threat. I would put this murderous psycho behind bars for a long time. I don't give a fuck how much money someone is trying to steal from you, this is unnecessary escalation.(click to show/hide)
mosins are so fun to shoot, you should definitly look into getting one
This is your video to prove your point about unnecessary escalation? What the flying fuck, he just murdered a dude without any physical threat. I would put this murderous psycho behind bars for a long time. I don't give a fuck how much money someone is trying to steal from you, this is unnecessary escalation.
Glad I don't live in a country where people have such ideas about self defense, or property defense. God.
I always figured they gave everybody guns there to keep the king of England off their lawn, but were too scared to ask them back later. I always like how Xants main argument is "bad guys get guns anyway, no matter what law!" So the point of this whole argument is really that laws dont count for shit. If this is true, why do we even have laws? There is a fine line between a person who is acctually planning to kill you for reals and someone who is turning you into a unlucky innocent bystander.
I always figured they gave everybody guns there to keep the king of England off their lawn, but were too scared to ask them back later. I always like how Xants main argument is "bad guys get guns anyway, no matter what law!" So the point of this whole argument is really that laws dont count for shit. If this is true, why do we even have laws? There is a fine line between a person who is acctually planning to kill you for reals and someone who is turning you into a unlucky innocent bystander.My argument never was that laws do not count for anything.
my friend owns one, it has a fold up bayonet on it lol, it is just obnoxiously loud in comparison to my mauser, the russians must have all been deaf after shooting them around one another.
That's not a mosin. That's a Chinese SKS. Mosins have Socket Bayonets only. My friend owns both(and I own a Mosin) so I know.
Also, Mauser shoots a slightly bigger round that a Mosin. 7.56X54r compared to 7.92x57(8mm Mauser more common)
Glad I don't live in a country where people have such ideas about self defense, or property defense. God. Also, cops in my country will only open fire when a gun is aimed at or near them, whenever an officer shoots someone, a police investigation will investigate the entire shooting, including the conduct of the officer and if he did not act according to the guidelines punishment is severe. Also, someone running away here gets shot in the legs, and only after a warning shot has been fired. Keep telling yourself that American morals towards guns and killing people with guns are good, while I enjoy the low death by firearm rate in my country. Meritards.
i'd like the F2000 just for the bullpup design, im intrigued by bullpups, the design is soooo exotic i guess, its not something u see in most firearms. Only problem is, it cost around $2,000 to purchase. Though the P90 would be cool the problem with it is most states require a barrel length of i believe 18 inches and no shorter, so you have this compact gun, but a long barrel sticking out the front of it that just doesnt make sense. Cool fact on it though, when they first sold the P90 to civilians, they didnt have the long barrel, and a few people blew their fingers off by putting them over the barrel by accident.
I don't know much about 308win semi-auto or pump action rifles. Especially the pump action on rifles seem a bit silly to me. I guess that's just one of these Amurican things when it comes to firearms. Love the Winchester lever action rifles tho and like to shoot them but I swear by the bolt action ones for hunting, absolutely. The best rifles when it comes to accuracy and reliability = bolt action. There should be no debate about it :P
I guess you overread that Teeth was talking about his country! And what he says sounds very familliar to me (guess we come from the same eurocountry). So yes I am happy too to live in a country where cops try to use their firearms in a nonlethal way. Actually I am very surprised that US cops don't even try to spare a life( according to your post).
im sorry what? where did you get all this misinformation from? i barely want to comment back, just because im overwhelmed by the shear stupidity in this post. Nobody is trained to shoot someone in the legs, nobody is trained to fire warning shots(you are liable for every shot fired, firing into the air to tell someone not to shoot, or you are about to fire even sounds stupid as well), yes internal investigations are standard procedure for use of force policies, some agencies will even ask outside agencies to perform them, so that they cannot be held liable for people saying "it was swept under the rug". This is exactly the type of constant misinformation that not only you, but every citizen has, you have not a clue, your full of movie drama, and misconceptions. Congratulations on being completely wrong, please bring forward some sort of evidence stating they have been trained to shoot people in the legs, because as far as im trained, if im bringing out my sidearm, its for a reason, and im not going to shoot them in the legs, im shooting to neutralize a threat.
http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/carbines/ps90-standard/ (http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/carbines/ps90-standard/)
meh, never handled a P90 (doubt i ever will) but it seems like nothing more than a crappy plastic "lightweight > everything" gun, be careful when holding it, it may fall apart....
ima start saving my pennies so i can buy a Ruger 10/22
I guess you overread that Teeth was talking about his country! And what he says sounds very familliar to me (guess we come from the same eurocountry). So yes I am happy too to live in a country where cops try to use their firearms in a nonlethal way. Actually I am very surprised that US cops don't even try to spare a live( according to your post).
im sorry what? where did you get all this misinformation from? i barely want to comment back, just because im overwhelmed by the shear stupidity in this post. Nobody is trained to shoot someone in the legs, nobody is trained to fire warning shots(you are liable for every shot fired, firing into the air to tell someone not to shoot, or you are about to fire even sounds stupid as well), yes internal investigations are standard procedure for use of force policies, some agencies will even ask outside agencies to perform them, so that they cannot be held liable for people saying "it was swept under the rug". This is exactly the type of constant misinformation that not only you, but every citizen has, you have not a clue, your full of movie drama, and misconceptions. Congratulations on being completely wrong, please bring forward some sort of evidence stating they have been trained to shoot people in the legs, because as far as im trained, if im bringing out my sidearm, its for a reason, and im not going to shoot them in the legs, im shooting to neutralize a threat.Misinformation? Not having a clue? I am being wrong? You turd, this is information I took right of the official website of the Dutch police, outlining how and when they are allowed to use weapons, which is what I described. This is literally how my country's law enforcement uses guns and I am damn satisfied with these regulations.
American police are generally polite, professional, and honest. When in uniform, they are also more formal, cautious, and cold than police in, say, Latin America—especially in large cities. If stopped by the police, you should stay calm, be polite and cooperative, avoid making sudden movements, and state what you are doing if you need to reach for your purse or wallet to present your identification. Often police will ask you to keep your hands out of your pockets while speaking to them. This is for security and is in no way meant to be offensive. American police officers are always armed while on duty. Turn on the inside car lights and keep your hands on the wheel to make it clear that you are not a threat. Do not exit the vehicle unless told to do so. If you follow the officer's instructions, you will probably not be arrested (unless you have actually committed a crime or resemble someone who recently committed one in the immediate vicinity).
Do not offer bribes to a police officer in any way or under any circumstances. U.S. police culture categorically rejects bribes. The mere suggestion would very likely result in your immediate arrest. If you need to pay a fine, the officer can direct you to the appropriate police station, courthouse, or government office. Most minor traffic infractions can be paid by mail. Don't even think about paying a fine directly to the officer who issued it, since this will probably be interpreted as a bribe.
Misinformation? Not having a clue? I am being wrong? You turd, this is information I took right of the official website of the Dutch police, outlining how and when they are allowed to use weapons, which is what I described. This is literally how my country's law enforcement uses guns and I am damn satisfied with these regulations.
http://www.politie.nl/onderwerpen/schietincident.html
That is my source, hope your Dutch is good. Who's stupid now?
For you AntiBlitz:
Hard to find info about german law in english language. but here is some evidence for the warning shot.
http://gawker.com/5909283/german-police-really-dont-like-shooting-at-people-used-only-85-bullets-last-year (http://gawker.com/5909283/german-police-really-dont-like-shooting-at-people-used-only-85-bullets-last-year)
"Statistics compiled by the German Police University show that German police officers fired a total of 49 warning shots and 36 shots aimed at individuals while pursuing suspects last year. From those incidents, 15 people were injured, and six were killed." [in 2011]
You see warning shots are used more often than aimed shots.
I will keep looking for some english proof for legshots
Maybe you find some translator for this german site. it states some rules about firearm usage for police:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffengebrauch_der_Polizei_in_Deutschland
By the way is there a guidebook for US cops or whatever you are about how to use their firearm?
I would really apreciate if you could share a copy or link.
Im sure after the first person dies from warning shot fire, that the policy will be changed, extreme events must occur before things change unfortunately.
If someone makes a statement about a subject which you know little about while you disagree, you might want to think about discussing it in a little more careful manner than calling said person stupid and his statement ridiculous, repeatedly.
A warning shot is the clearest sign that you are about to be potentially killed by the police which does in fact convince a lot of suspects to comply with the police after all, its a sort of reality check for the life danger a suspect is about to be in. It also alerts bystanders so they get into cover or at least out of the way in case more shots have to be fired. There hasn't been a single record of a falling bullet casualty in the Netherlands, the chances are incredibly small. A falling bullet doesn't go all that fast either.
I think with a total of 50 warningshots a year the possibility that one of them is killing someone is negligible.
And for shure a warningshot is much less likely to harm anybody than an aimed shot which missed.
(didn't you post the video where police injured several bystanders with their aimed shots?)
Well making statements about ones culture is also quite stupid, though i understand i did cross a line, im willing to apologize for the statement, though i disagree with it, considering that i believe most of europes views on guns are due to suppression and old views that arent up to date on the times at hand.I am fairly sure that gun policy in the U.S. is more of a remnant of old times then the gun policies in Europe, where gun ownership was once free of government control as well. So gun policy has been updated to contain a ban on most firearms here. Adaptation of policy to the times at hand. This might be ridiculously hard to believe for an American, but there is simply no need to own or carry a gun in my country. Not once have I or pretty much anyone thought, gee wish I had a gun. The times at hand provide very little reason to own a gun, let alone carry one, my society is safe.
ummmm...if your gonna willingly commit a crime, and dont understand the "life danger" that would put you in?If someone steals a bike he forfeits his life to the judgement of a trigger-happy cop. Great fucking law system is that. God Americans and their guns, there is no point in even discussing anything until your thinking catches up 200 years. Until you let go of the Wild-West mindset and get some proper appreciation for human life and justice.
well then i weep for your children, hope they dont turn out as stupid as you did
ummmm...if your gonna willingly commit a crime, and dont understand the "life danger" that would put you in?
well then i weep for your children, hope they dont turn out as stupid as you did
I am fairly sure that gun policy in the U.S. is more of a remnant of old times then the gun policies in Europe, where gun ownership was once free of government control as well. So gun policy has been updated to contain a ban on most firearms here. Adaptation of policy to the times at hand. This might be ridiculously hard to believe for an American, but there is simply no need to own or carry a gun in my country. Not once have I or pretty much anyone thought, gee wish I had a gun. The times at hand provide very little reason to own a gun, let alone carry one, my society is safe.
If someone steals a bike he forfeits his life to the judgement of a trigger-happy cop. Great fucking law system is that. God Americans and their guns, there is no point in even discussing anything until your thinking catches up 200 years. Until you let go of the Wild-West mindset and get some proper appreciation for human life and justice.
A LOT
There I fixed it for you! Just because your armed doesn't mean you can go around ignoring grammar and spelling willy fucking nilly!
----
I personally don't like guns being available to the general public because the general public are spastic.
Australia has one of the highest rates of assault in the OCED. Give these fuck wits open or concealed carry and a lot of people are going to get shot.
I'm all for tasers, pepper sprays, performance enhancing drugs so on and so forth. I just don't see any reason for someone to have a KRISS SMG in their home. If you want a double barrel shot gun, or a bolt action hunting rifle more power to you. But no one "needs" a hand gun or an automatic weapon. That's war fighting gear and if you are having to fight a war in your own home I advise you move house... sooner the better.
----
I didn't actually open this thread to argue :/
You know I love you blitzypoo.
i dont mind really, its all just opinions, here is mine again lol. I think wat people fail to see is simply that the damage of allowing guns has already been done, you cannot revert this action to the populous without serious consequences. We all make due with the cards dealt to us, and history already wrote out how it was going to be. If your country just had them from the start you might not have those same views, just as Germany serves alcohol to what we would say is minors, and whatever country it was decriminalizing drugs. Its cultural based, we couldnt do those same things in America, it just wouldnt work, or maybe it would and we just wont try because we have those same extreme views towards it that the people in this thread do.
This might be ridiculously hard to believe for an American, but there is simply no need to own or carry a gun in my country. Not once have I or pretty much anyone thought, gee wish I had a gun. The times at hand provide very little reason to own a gun, let alone carry one, my society is safe.If you're alright with being a sheep, I'm happy that works for you. Just trust blindly in the shepherd and bury your head in the sand. I'm sure it'll be alright.
In the end it's just toys.Of course it is, if you have dozens of guns. I don't think anyone is denying that. They can be used as tools, however, when necessary, which makes them a somewhat different breed of toys when compared to stamps.
If you're alright with being a sheep, I'm happy that works for you. Just trust blindly in the shepherd and bury your head in the sand. I'm sure it'll be alright.Yes, people are sheep for wanting to live in a SAFE environment, where they are unlikely to ever even see a gun, much less get shot by one. Real lions go live in the jungle, survival of the fittest, etc.
Yes, people are sheep for wanting to live in a SAFE environment, where they are unlikely to ever even see a gun, much less get shot by one. Real lions go live in the jungle, survival of the fittest, etc.lions don't live in the jungle
Man....those...are...some pretty wierd opinions you have. The highlight of it is that you think that Europe not allowing civilians to carry fully automatic firearms is part of the old world and is a goverment/citizen trust issue. Its none of that. Your liberal law is acctually a remnant of the old world and its really not a trust issue. Majority, in Europe, which I quess is atleast 90% of citizens in every country would never want such liberal gunlaws as you have out there. Nobody even brings this up to discussion here. Because doing so is pointless and very dangerous. I get that majority of the gunnuts are good folks just collecting and being relaxed. But the more deathmachines in circulation, the larger possibility of fatal "accidents". Its the same thing as nobody wanting every country on the planet to have a nuclear weapon arsenal.
Also the selfdefencething? I get that a handgun can be used for selfdefence. But a fullyautomatic assaultrifle. Wat...? Then comes the "I might be outgunned" statement. Who goes thiefing or burglarizing with a assault rilfe? Seriuslly. Oh right murica..... In this part of the world, even getting threatened with an acctual gun is a rarety.
Also AntiBlitz could arm a milita squad incase the government(if there is one) comes for his freedom. Of course this and the self defense thingy is just bullshit related to immature power fantasies.Well put Paul. Well put indeed.
Some gunnut crap, did not read lol
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355941/Murderer-killed-botched-burglary-raped-girl-13-bizarre-obsession-leaves.html
This was in USA btw... and singlecases dont count for shit
I bet ya those women wished they could protect themselves, unfortunately they are stuck in the medieval times, fending off this armed intruder with fucking kitchen knives, congratulations real fucking nice policy. In EU kitchen knives work realtively well.
After trying to find material on people in Europe killing others with firearms, i continuously stumble across things like this, goddamn Europe is real safe, seems they have a drug problem, well who doesn't really, oh but wait look, the drug dealers have guns in a entire continent which doesn't allow guns? how did they get them? doesn't seem like not having guns is keeping them away from anyone who really wants them..... True, we have a lof of drugproblems. I dunno about but I read all the Baltic and Nordic country news. Very few firearm deaths. It really is safe, compared to USA we are the fucking Garden of Eden even. I dunno man. The drug dealers here atleast carry knifes. If there are any drugviolence deaths it was due to stabbing. And im not shitting you. NOBODY carries a gun here. In Great Brittain, where well crime is way higher then everywhere else in EU, the knife is the most common murderweapon too.
9 pages of fucking absolute garbage brought to you by 4 angry Europeans who cant see why having a gun to protect yourself because its the fucking 21st century makes sense.
This isnt far fetched
I can't guarantee that in case of, lets say.....ptx, xant and I meeting in a pub and getting drunk, talking about variety of subjects and presumably arguing, I wouldn't draw my concealed weapon and wax Xant if he starts getting on my nerves, especially if he's bigger and stronger then me. It's not that I want to shoot the hell out of him but I think alcohol + his charming personality could contribute to me ending up serving some serious time.
I can't guarantee that in case of, lets say.....ptx, xant and I meeting in a pub and getting drunk, talking about variety of subjects and presumably arguing, I wouldn't draw my concealed weapon and wax Xant if he starts getting on my nerves, especially if he's bigger and stronger then me. It's not that I want to shoot the hell out of him but I think alcohol + his charming personality could contribute to me ending up serving some serious time.My guess is that i would consume twice the amount of beers in the same amount of time and would then proceed to drunkenly hit on the hot chick behind the bar, making everyone ashamed enough to go home.
I think this is pretty interesting in the grand debate on Gun Ownership and Violent Crime:UK is somewhat infamous for its violent crime rate in the EU. I assume the crime rate EU-wise is actually lower than that.
http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/01/12/fact-checking-ben-swann-is-the-uk-really-5-times-more-violent-than-the-us/
Technically England/Wales has more VIOLENT crime(when you do a near 1:1 comparison) but lower murder rate from guns. I'd assume this is fairly similar Continent wide.
Not sure why dying by knife is preferrable to dying by a gunshot wound.Its not about preferable dying mate. A random fucker could end your life simply by hiding in the bushes and taking careful aim while you wank off unexpected or something. Not to mention if there are people around you and the dude has shit aim, there is gonna be innocent bystanders. Someone charging you with a knife you can mostly see ahead and with a couple of self-defencecourses you can turn the situation around. Unlike with firearms. If one guy pulls his gun first and starts randomly spraying bullets all you have is luck unless you can bend bullets.
Someone charging you with a knife you can mostly see ahead and with a couple of self-defencecourses you can turn the situation around. Unlike with firearms.This deserves nothing more than a facepalm. You do not know anything about the subject, that much is clear. "Self-defence courses." Jesus Christ, have mercy. I'd much rather face a firearm than a knife in close quarters, and others with actual experience in these things often agree.
Just in case you've missed it, the "discussion" has not been about USA gun control laws, but rather whether or not EU gun control laws are medieval. :rolleyes:Uh, nope.
Hey XANT where's the Info on Florida? You're missing 2 states in that data acquisition...which is pretty weird? Why so...Don't know why Florida wasn't included, it'd be 5,2 **.
Also the Firearm per citizen is misleading. Just look at Antiblitz. He's got like 20 guns. That's why that statistic is so high. Actual gun owners (households) are closer to 50%< since 1 owner can own a full armies worth of guns and ammunition.
Also your 2 star states are amongst the easiest states to acquire firearms. In 30 minutes, I can buy whatever gun legally allowed, if I have the money at any time. Just note that. Easy to buy, but not as easy to go around/carry.
The concealed Permit given by Florida is almost a "Nationwide Standard" as far as concealed carry goes.
Also the Firearm per citizen is misleading. Just look at Antiblitz. He's got like 20 guns. That's why that statistic is so high. Actual gun owners (households) are closer to 50%< since 1 owner can own a full armies worth of guns and ammunition.
The concealed Permit given by Florida is almost a "Nationwide Standard" as far as concealed carry goes.
Well put Paul. Well put indeed.
So I dunno man. You can be cool and technological 21st century people and shoot eachother with firearms, if that makes you feel any better. This is the part of life where we would like to stick to medieval, as you put it.
I didn't know Ohio was in Europe. Guess i should brush up on my geography knowledge.
And no, not even drug dealers generally have guns here. They settle their scores and shit by beating the other side up.
A shootout between unarmed London constables and a group of Latvian anarchists left three officers and one anarchist dead.Way to go, Latvian anarchists.
Way to go, Latvian anarchists.fuck the police!
EU - few guns, both for civilians and criminals -> negligible risk of getting shot and killed -> less lethal crime = better.But as the statistics show, that's not entirely true. Many US states with loose gun laws have less lethal crime than European countries with strict gun laws.
What you missed is how you proved yourself flat out wrong in that post: "I bet ya those women wished they could protect themselves, unfortunately they are stuck in the medieval times, fending off this armed intruder with fucking kitchen knives, congratulations real fucking nice policy."
I guess they couldn't afterall, regardless of the loose gun control laws in the country they lived in. /facepalm
As to the rest:
Oh, wow, did you just find every single gun crime since the seventies? That proved what, exactly?
And no, drug dealers and most criminal elements, IN GENERAL, do not have guns here. It's why they keep stabbing and beating each other up, rather than shooting.
Let me try and make it simple for ya: EU - few guns, both for civilians and criminals -> negligible risk of getting shot and killed -> less lethal crime = better.
You have a skewed sense of technological advancement equaling armed shootouts between civilians and criminals.fuck the police!
Or maybe they'd have just shot me. Hmmmmmm...
Or maybe they'd have just shot me. Hmmmmmm...
Knife over gun all day.
Ouch, have you seen some pictures about how people end up after knife fights?Alive?
.-.
Alive?That's the whole point.
Ouch, have you seen some pictures about how people end up after knife fights?Yea, it's pretty nasty. But so is a bottle smashed over the head or other pieces of bar equipment used with bad intend (intent?).
.-.
Alive?http://forums.officer.com/t153585/
That's the whole point.Based on what?
The probability to survive a stab wound compared to a gun shot is way higher.
http://forums.officer.com/t153585/My six years of experience in working on an Ambulance on the weekend and helping out as bouncer now and then.
http://www.bladecombat.com/knifemyths.html
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=63104
Based on what?
My six years of experience in working on an Ambulance on the weekend and helping out as bouncer now and then.http://www.lwcbooks.com/articles/edgedweapons.html
And that I actually know how to fight with and against a knife. Though the "against" part is rather difficult. You see a knife in a fight - you better get the hell out of there.
(click to show/hide)
Don't be a strawman. Of course, you can be lethal with a knife, almost as lethal as with a gun... No. That's like showing a picture of a bullet and saying "see bullet." Stab wounds are not made by surgeons in hospitals. The knife never exits the way it went in, and you can widen the wound after the stab - accidentally or on purpose. Living flesh also grabs onto the blade.
Except, muggers and thugs would generally just stab you in the stomach, then mug you and get out of there.Best picture i could get, but i imagine a typical handgun will do at least the 30 centimeter penetration damage profile. And that is a 3-dimensional wound, it shreds flesh in all direction of the bullet + potential shards.(click to show/hide)
What's a knife wound profile?See blade.(click to show/hide)
It still won't be anywhere near the damage a bullet will do to flesh, and it's not a deep wound, that could potentially leave you full of metal fragments, depending on the bullet.Yes, it will. It can do more damage. Or it can do less damage. It can be a deep wound.
Lol!....Wtf? You are taking news from 1996. Picking single cases and using the "If they had a gun, it could have been avoided" arguments, again proof you are not worth arguing with. Atleast Xant's arguments are somewhat sensible. A friendly suggestion id give you is never use the "If they had a gun, it could have been avoided" arguments. Its like the worst bullshit, you could even say.
Complains about someone using single cases as an arguement to defend a majorityRead. Post. Then attempt to understand what you read.
Then defends his position by comparing large caliber FMJ rounds to a tiny 2inch folding pen knife
Fail
just leave taking a case in your lifetime which isnt even old and telling you the possibility that the outcomes would have been different if they could have defended themselves is completely viable, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing and attempting to belittle me rather than make valid points, sooo shut the fuck up, and get out.Fine, fine, just don't call European gun laws medieval.
hell atleast Benkei can come back and make an argument with experience, i give him credit, you havent done shit except argue for no reason.
either way it doesnt matter really, knife or gun, they both suck, ive seen peoples forearms hanging off because they were blocking knife attacks, and ive see people with a bullet wound from a little 22lr who died after being shot in the armpit. They both suck, we have all come to an agreement that both can be deadly or not depending on the situation at hand, being shot in the hand might not be deadly, being stabbed in the hand might not be either, but these are but just instances that could occur, and we can be here for another 10 pages talking about "what if" cases all day long, so in the end:
Lets just talk about my guns, i have lots, what do you think of them, if you came to the states, id shoot them with you, do you have any yourself? in Germany you can be apart of a hunting club which keeps your rifle there for you to take hunting, learned that from a neighbor who lived in Germany, and just recently moved back. I think they said Amsberg was the name of the little town.
Read. Post. Then attempt to understand what you read.Fine, fine, just don't call European gun laws medieval.
That AK looks sweet. Not that i'd want to own one, but still.
Why brings a robber a gun to a robbery in the states? Cuz the shop owner has one too.
Why is the shop owner in EU most likely being rob with a knife or something similar less lethal? Cuz he doesn't have a gun.
Knife over gun all day.
I've generally stayed out of this debate but this is just silly. Most bullets available on the street generally leave small wounds unless they tumble ( which again most civilian available rounds don't). The only time they leave horrific wounds is if they shatter. If they pass clean through the body they are very survivable. On the other hand knives leave deep, wide gashes that can easily tear arteries or hit vital organs. The amount of surface area inside the body a knife stab will affect is much greater than any bullet which leads to much more scarring and greater long term problems. So I really don't understand how knives are less lethal or preferable.
I know that that rifle is great in STALKER :lol:
Okay, what do you think of these, they are the only ones I've ever fired:
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The rifle is damn heavy with 4.5 kg loaded. It's very sturdy, though, I've once fired over 200 shots (over 10 mags) in full auto in a very short period of time. The barrel was so hot it burned my back through the handguards and the uniform. But the gun took it well, it's still dead accurate, despite being used for 12 years now and having fired well over 2000 rounds in total.
The pistol I've only fired a few rounds with. I'm only sergeant, so I don't get my own. However, I was surprised how inaccurate handguns are. It wasn't that easy to hit a human-sized target some 20 m away for me. Sure, they were my first shots ever with a handgun, but still.
\
Of course, it's a bit less accurate, but who shoots at targets > 200m distance with an AR anyway?
Okay, what do you think of these, they are the only ones I've ever fired:
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[...]though it looks like a H&K rifle or a Sig, one of the two. Both are renowned gun smiths, creating some of the best weapons in the world.[...]
Whatever the fuck is the most dangerous, i dont care because i dont need a gun to feel safe.Ah, yes, but you see rational people don't think with their feelings, like you do.
Ah, yes, but you see rational people don't think with their feelings, like you do.why does nobody feel safe in a nation where guns are allowed to be owned and used 'for their own protection', while people that are not allowed to have guns in their land do?
The American military. D:
why does nobody feel safe in a nation where guns are allowed to be owned and used 'for their own protection', while people that are not allowed to have guns in their land do?I'll answer that right after you prove that no Americans feel safe and all Europeans feel safe.
I'll answer that right after you prove that no Americans feel safe and all Europeans feel safe.hurr durr, dont touch our guns, we need them for protection. hurr durr.
hurr durr, dont touch our guns, we need them for protection. hurr durr.Ok, I'll argument on your level:
btw, you are not really argumenting. Try something else than:
"you used the word feel, now your argument is not rational anymore" or "I won't answer your argument untill you prove it"
All Europeans are scared because they don't have guns. All Americans feel safe because they have guns.europeans feel safe without guns, Americans feel safe only if they have guns (which would be argued as a false feeling of safety). Meanwhile, they have 5.5 homicides per 100.000 capita, while Europe has only 1.
Details of threats/assaults
Looking at what was said about the 'last incident', and again taking all countries together,
offenders were known in about half the incidents of both assaults and threats. Men, though,
were less likely to know the offender(s) than women. The latter finding indicates that violence
against women is of a different nature.
One offender is involved in 60 % of violent crimes against women, compared to 40 % in cases
of violence against men.
Taking assaults and threats together again, for all countries combined weapons were said to
have been used (if only as a threat) in just under 20% of incidents. The figure was higher with
male victims than with female victims. In more than 40% of incidents in which a weapon was
used, victims mentioned a knife, and in 12% a gun. In one in five cases the attack resulted in
injuries of which half required medical treatment.
From a global perspective, the rate of gun-related attacks in European countries is
comparatively low. As said, the same is true for street robberies at gun-point.
Although the prevalence rates for threats/assaults in Europe are roughly similar to those in the
USA, homicide rates are five times higher in the USA (1 per 100,000 in Europe and 5.5 in the
USA). The more serious nature of violent crime in the USA might be related to higher
ownership rates in handguns. According to the EU ICS 4 % of EU households own one or
more guns. The gun ownership rate in the USA is 29%.
europeans feel safe without guns, Americans feel safe only if they have guns (which would be argued as a false feeling of safety). Meanwhile, they have 5.5 homicides per 100.000 capita, while Europe has only 1.Americans feel safe with guns, Europeans don't feel safe without guns.
source:
Americans feel safe with guns, Europeans don't feel safe without guns.what the fuck mate, can't even have a normal discussion with you
what the fuck mate, can't even have a normal discussion with youThe source was FBI crime stats. And yes, the European one is an average. If accessibility of firearms is a problem, how do you explain the low homicide rate of f.ex New Hampshire? Or that of Russia? And China? Or that of European countries higher than New Hampshire's?
also add a source to your post, looking through 5 pages to find a post with unknown and unrated source was not worth my time..
Your 5 times higher homicide rate might be an average of different states, but so is the european statistic.
The problem is not really the legal use of firearms, but mostly the accesibility to them. Even if you live in a state where they are banned, there is still a huge influx of them from other states next to it.
I thought we all agreed to stop arguing....
Well, those M16s must be magical, then, because I can tell you it's practically impossible to hit a moving target at 200m with the SIG 550, even if your lying on the ground in the perfect sniping position. And I doubt you can do it with a cheaper rifle that has a shorter barrel.
This came to my mind instantly. H&K fucked up. (http://militaryarms.blogspot.de/2012/04/german-army-reporting-problems-with-g36.html)
Don't get me on the source. The only English one I could find. The bureau responsible for acquiring army gear pointed that out in an official but "for official use only" paper years ago. It has been ignored.
One has to wonder which interests are secured here? Industry or soldier?
I've heard Famas is really crap.
From an engineering point of view I'm kinda sceptical with bullpup because of the huge distance between trigger and chamber as well as the latter being behind the first. Needs a lot mechanical effort to bridge that gap and that opens up for failure. Also having a catastrophic failure happen in your face might be unpleasant.
Bullup designed weapons tend to be bullet hoses, because you want to use them from up close anyway.
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alot of countries are converting to these style of weapons for some reason, must be good or else they wouldn't have done it.It's rare for bureaucracy to actually find a solution that is optimal. Just as likely, if not more so, is that the weapon company making these bullpup rifles got the government contracts for some other, less noble reasons.
Well, those M16s must be magical, then, because I can tell you it's practically impossible to hit a moving target at 200m with the SIG 550, even if your lying on the ground in the perfect sniping position. And I doubt you can do it with a cheaper rifle that has a shorter barrel.
Surprised we as a nation(U.S) havent decided its time to upgrade, idk maybe they dont see anything wrong with the current, M4 that would need upgraded.
Well, yes, they do. It's a long overdue task, actually:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Combat_Rifle
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective_Individual_Combat_Weapon
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_SCAR#Evolution
I think the main problem is logistics. A new rifle would have to provide significantly better performance than what they have at the moment, and i think it's just not possible with dumb ammunition to reach that. The approach that combines a grenade launcher with programmable grenades and a conventional AR for self-defense in close engagements sounds very effective. It's just damn heavy. And expensive. But firing a grenade so that it explodes in the air, exactly after it has passed the cover of the target is the way to go, IMO.
if i can atleast hold one of these before i die, ill die a happy loser
kickin it oldschool, WW2 style
German FG-42(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
It's rare for bureaucracy to actually find a solution that is optimal. Just as likely, if not more so, is that the weapon company making these bullpup rifles got the government contracts for some other, less noble reasons.
The U.S government a few years back tried to replace the M9 pistol and opened the doors to several of the big name companies asking them to create a replacement pistol. The requirements werent very high, they asked for it to be built in conjunction with some sort of personal defense weapon, like a sub machine gun for pilots, asked for it to have increased stats over the 9mm, and said that it had to pierce certain types of body armor as well as a helmet at close range. Two companies came to the call, FN Herstal, and H&K. FNH created the FiveSeven, and the P90 with a 5.7x28mm. H&K created the HK UCP and MP7 firing a 4.6x30mm. This new firearm would become the NATO new standard for PDW's and pistols, once the testing was done, the news was presented to them and they chose FN Herstal. Needless to say, Germany was quite upset over the testing and denounced it lol, in turn there is now no set standard for this because Germany presumably feels as though H&K is better.
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I can only imagine the joy of carrying this thing around.
Women are overrated. Don't know why I'd want to hang out with them.
At your age you should be imagining the joys of "hanging out" with women, not rifles. Something is rotten in the state of Finland.
Women are overrated. Don't know why I'd want to hang out with them.
[...]This is actually very true and makes huge difference. :D
Also, you don't hang out with women, women hang out with you.
This is actually very true and makes huge difference. :DIt only holds true for nerds and beta men. Protip: if you stop thinking about it like that, the chances of it being true are also lessened.
The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws.
Among other evils which being unarmed brings you, it causes you to be despised.
It is enough to ask somebody for his weapons without saying 'I want to kill you with them', because when you have his weapons in hand, you can satisfy your desire.
When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred.
Before all else, be armed.
The personal, as everyone's so fucking fond of saying, is political. So if some idiot politician, some power player, tries to execute policies that harm you or those you care about, take it personally. Get angry. The Machinery of Justice will not serve you here – it is slow and cold, and it is theirs, hardware and soft-. Only the little people suffer at the hands of Justice; the creatures of power slide out from under with a wink and a grin. If you want justice, you will have to claw it from them. Make it personal. Do as much damage as you can. Get your message across. That way you stand a far better chance of being taken seriously next time. Of being considered dangerous. And make no mistake about this: being taken seriously, being considered dangerous, marks the difference – the only difference in their eyes – between players and little people. Players they will make deals with. Little people they liquidate. And time and again they cream your liquidation, your displacement, your torture and brutal execution with the ultimate insult that it's just business, it's politics, it's the way of the world, it's a tough life, and that it's nothing personal. Well, fuck them. Make it personal.
Things I Should Have Learnt by Now, Volume II
If you start finding yourself thinking that something true sounds like something a my old friendcher forum activist would say, then it's time to seriously consider the implications of that.
I was just referring to the sharp eagerness of Xynox and Rumblood to show the world of shit they live in. That last quote of yours was nicely attuned to that.
I was just referring to the sharp eagerness of Xynox and Rumblood to show the world of shit they live in. That last quote of yours was nicely attuned to that.
That's an ironic statement given that it is melee always trying to convince everyone of the world of shit they live in and wanting to force changes to ranged as a result. You never see ranged posting to buff their class, you ALWAYS see melee posting to nerf it. And yet you try to portray the situation as the ranged making the complaints? Brilliant. :lol:
You know, Kafein, I read all your posts in horrible anticipation of the space question mark, ready to take it like a slap in the face, but then it never comes and I feel betrayed.
No, it has nothing to do with the game actually. Several important archer figures have not been very discrete about their RL situation like they inhabit a warzone or something. Much of their family died of gunshots or knife wounds, or they live in a trailer park and would welcome a tax assessor with 12ga buckshot. They aren't even really complaining but rather stating that the entire world is a place as shitty as where they live, and humanity is unlovable as a whole.
if it makes you all feel any better, in Crpg i play as a shielder, and i complain about hipsters with espadas and sideswords, kicking, and weapon slots.
I play as a horsearcher because I'm a sadistic asshole.ftfy
If someone spots you complaining about kicks as a shielder, be ready for a shower of l2p shaddap whiner lobbyist comments
well looking at the original post, i think i can hold my own, but on a side note i think its quite sad that someone has to change their play style because they know all 2h will eventually try kicking you, over and over again. I end up fighting from this weird angle of strafing and backpedeling to keep just enough distance as to not get kicked, rather than playing aggressively like i normally would try.Same way 2h can't just facehug spam because then you'd nudge and stab them in the face. Also, if you learn to anticipate kicks they aren't very hard to jump over or even kickchamber.
Same way 2h can't just facehug spam because then you'd nudge and stab them in the face. Also, if you learn to anticipate kicks they aren't very hard to jump over or even kickchamber.
i wonder where the hell did you get athorization to own assault rifles. correct me if i am mistaken, but arent there special laws for assault rifles?
state laws, i am authorized to own them, because when i purchased them, i applied for their ownership. Most states do the same thing with handguns and assault rifles. Unless you live in a state like california, or you like in Washington D.C, there arent much in the way of restrictions, albeit you arent a felon.
and the specs of the dog?
Pro-gun groups in the US have declared that the first anniversary of the shooting in Sandy Hook, where 20 schoolchildren and six adults were killed, should be named "Guns Save Lives Day".Yeah, another shooting in a No Guns Allowed zone....
The Second Amendment Foundation said it wants to "show America that there is a good side to guns".
"We are proclaiming Saturday, December 14 as Guns Save Lives Day,” said Alan Gottlieb, president of the Second Amendment Foundation and chairman of the Citizens Committee.
http://news.sky.com/story/1153645/pro-gun-campaign-on-sandy-hook-anniversary
just wtf really :D
im not saying if guns or good or bad in the hands of the public i just loled at the timing of guns are good day :D IMO ban guns legalize swords then we will probably see much less use :D
http://news.sky.com/story/1153645/pro-gun-campaign-on-sandy-hook-anniversary
just wtf really :D
Have you ever use P220 Compact?
Gun bans wouldn't have stopped sandy, Lanza shot up the school because of MENTAL issues. Guns aren't the probelm, lack of mental health care is
Gun bans wouldn't have stopped sandy, Lanza shot up the school because of MENTAL issues. Guns aren't the probelm, lack of mental health care is
Gun bans wouldn't have stopped sandy, Lanza shot up the school because of MENTAL issues. Guns aren't the probelm, lack of mental health care isYeah, but the ban of gun bans could have stopped Sandy.
i understand what they are trying to achieve here, but i think the execution is poor lol.
i have not actually, though i know of them and i know how they fire, why whats up? gotta question bout it?
Wanted to know their design, how they react to their users, accuracy, et cetera.
If I was American and had the wish to carry a gun, I'd go for something classic like a Colt 1911 or something. You know, support local manufacturers, not some foreign company.
What i don't understand about the whole double action / single action discussion...can't you use a double action like a single action? I mean, they usually do have additional security triggers, right? So couldn't you carry it with the hammer cocked and essentially have a single action weapon?
Which part of additional security triggers did you not understand?
Welcome to my world, it includes ALOT of guns
But how do single action guns work, then? Aren't they simply double action without the possibility to pull the hammer back with the trigger? I read on wikipedia that original revolvers are "single action", and as far as I know, you always had to manually pull back the hammer first.
you are right alot of firearms will have additional safety measures built in to either the grip, or a push button/lever for the safety, though id truly recommend if you are carrying this concealed not to have those, as if the time arises that it needs pulled, you need to be able to fire it instantly, not flicking and pushing buttons for 5 more seconds while the world around you falls down. If you plan on using this for a home defense gun, then by all means safety is paramount, you have the children, the wife/gf, and others who could harm themselves so having these features is a better safer way of keeping a handgun at the ready when you have the time to turn those safeties off and use the weapon.
to answer the other question, no you wouldnt want to leave the hammer cocked back, because the problem is the trigger becomes ultra sensitive at that point, and is under the requirement of between a 3-6lbs draw normally or lighter if it was built custom with a feather draw. The other problem is, leaving it cocked the whole time could lead to the possibility of the hammer falling from something failing internally, dropping the hammer and firing the round, better to not leave it to fate to shoot yourself or someone else by accidental discharge.
But how do single action guns work, then? Aren't they simply double action without the possibility to pull the hammer back with the trigger? I read on wikipedia that original revolvers are "single action", and as far as I know, you always had to manually pull back the hammer first.
If I am not wrong, you are not allowed to have a loaded firearms in many US States. And those who allow loaded firearms (clips), they also do not allow the owners to have a firearm with a bullet in its chambers. Am I wrong?
just... why?
yes single action requires the hammer to be cocked back every time, double action is allowing the trigger to pull the hammer back, which in modern firearms is only the first trigger pull which then the slide resets the hammer every time.
But why are you then recommending single action over double action if the latter can do the same? I mean, the first trigger pull thing is something you can do IN ADDITION to manually pulling the hammer back, right?
I see. Thanks for the explanation.
The guns are cool and all, but that air hockey table is amazing.
Question. In your State, are you allowed to buy or/and use full metal jacket rounds, in addition to hollow-point rounds? As I did not make a research and want to know it as a fact. Some EU Countries, mostly eastern, uses FMJ Rounds while western EU Countries and US Police, at any level, uses hollow-point, to reduce the risk of getting by-standers shot as well.
An another question, again, regarding the bullets and gun itself. Is there any regulations for different bullets with different diameters, like .45 and 9mm? That also goes for higher caliber weapons.
You can't always see a gun enthusiast that is open to answer many questions. So I will keep bombarding you with some more.
Welcome to my world, it includes ALOT of guns
just... why?
At some point I expected a brown and furry monster made of guns to show up somewhere
That's a marketing vid for planet of the apes
this would be my first time hearing about the Alot monster, HOWEVER! he is not made of guns.
My state has no such restrictions on ammunition with the exception of soft tip rounds for hunting, however the state of New Jersey does, and actually i think its the only state that has such a restriction in the whole country. The state of New Jersey bans possession of hollow point bullets by civilians except for ammunition possessed at one's dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed. The law also requires all hollow point ammunition to be transported directly from the place of purchase to one's home, or by members of a rifle or pistol club directly to a place of target practice, or directly to an authorized target range from the place of purchase or one's home.
There isnt any sort of regulation on the the caliber of firearm as much as there is a regulation on the firearms themselves. I think the only thing you cant own in Maryland are grenade launchers, bazookas, flamethrowers, lol essentially all the extreme things, and even those i think you can own as long as you get a license for them.
This link shows which weapons they have regulated, but none of them have restrictions on owning them, so to own one is as simple as filling out the paperwork and passing. Well until October 31st anyways, as thatll be when Maryland's new gun law goes in to effect banning the sale of all assault style weapons.
http://www.oag.state.md.us/Opinions/2010/95oag101.pdf
Maryland Assault Weapon sale ban
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/fnotes/bil_0003/sb0623.pdf
nope, i think the only regulation pertains to steel core, which is a military round meant to penetrate armor, though im not sure if that is a federal thing, or state law. They just wont sell it, though you can find some people who have them and are selling them for thousands of dollars.
most notable case of this came under scrutiny from the FiveSeven, which when first released to the public was sold with the steel core, armor piercing rounds. After it was named the cop killer(brutal shooting of a LEO by a Mexican Cartel member, if i remember correctly), Herstal pulled all sale of ammunition to the public, and revamped the ammunition to be sold to the public with a sport round.