Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash

[Clockworkkiller]

i'd like the F2000 just for the bullpup design, im intrigued by bullpups, the design is soooo  exotic i guess, its not something u see in most firearms.  Only problem is, it cost around $2,000 to purchase.  Though the P90 would be cool the problem with it is most states require a barrel length of i believe 18 inches and no shorter, so you have this compact gun, but a long barrel sticking out the front of it that just doesnt make sense.  Cool fact on it though, when they first sold the P90 to civilians, they didnt have the long barrel, and a few people blew their fingers off by putting them over the barrel by accident.

http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/carbines/ps90-standard/

meh, never handled a P90 (doubt i ever will) but it seems like nothing more than a crappy plastic "lightweight > everything" gun, be careful when holding it, it may fall apart....

I don't know much about 308win semi-auto or pump action rifles. Especially the pump action on rifles seem a bit silly to me. I guess that's just one of these Amurican things when it comes to firearms. Love the Winchester lever action rifles tho and like to shoot them but I swear by the bolt action ones for hunting, absolutely. The best rifles when it comes to accuracy and reliability = bolt action. There should be no debate about it

we have a M1 Garand chambered for .308, apparently the U.S military was experimenting with other rounds beside the 30-06. We got ours as a gift from the grandparents, who i think got it from the CMP, but since your in Finland, doubt this would help you one bit, lol


ima start saving my pennies so i can buy a Ruger 10/22

[Utrakil]

im sorry what? where did you get all this misinformation from?  i barely want to comment back, just because im overwhelmed by the shear stupidity in this post.  Nobody is trained to shoot someone in the legs, nobody is trained to fire warning shots(you are liable for every shot fired, firing into the air to tell someone not to shoot, or you are about to fire even sounds stupid as well), yes internal investigations are standard procedure for use of force policies, some agencies will even ask outside agencies to perform them, so that they cannot be held liable for people saying "it was swept under the rug".  This is exactly the type of constant misinformation that not only you, but every citizen has, you have not a clue, your full of movie drama, and misconceptions.  Congratulations on being completely wrong, please bring forward some sort of evidence stating they have been trained to shoot people in the legs, because as far as im trained, if im bringing out my sidearm, its for a reason, and im not going to shoot them in the legs, im shooting to neutralize a threat.

I guess you overread that Teeth was talking about his country! And what he says sounds very familliar to me (guess we come from the same eurocountry). So yes I am happy too to live in a country where cops try to use their firearms in a nonlethal way. Actually I am very surprised that US cops don't even try to spare a life( according to your post).

[AntiBlitz]

http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/carbines/ps90-standard/

meh, never handled a P90 (doubt i ever will) but it seems like nothing more than a crappy plastic "lightweight > everything" gun, be careful when holding it, it may fall apart....

ima start saving my pennies so i can buy a Ruger 10/22

most weapons nowadays are going to Polymer, its lighter and easier to construct(also cheaper), so in turn alot of companies are going to polymer for everything but the most crucial parts, ie, the slide, barrel, and pretty much all the internal parts like little springs and such.

22lr is probably the best range gun, since ammunition is so cheap, you can buy boxes of 1,000 rounds for a few pieces of lint and string in your pocket.

I guess you overread that Teeth was talking about his country! And what he says sounds very familliar to me (guess we come from the same eurocountry). So yes I am happy too to live in a country where cops try to use their firearms in a nonlethal way. Actually I am very surprised that US cops don't even try to spare a live( according to your post).

I guess you didnt read my post either, the part where i asked the same thing im about to ask again, please bring forward evidence showing that British police are trained to shoot people in the legs, i would be interested in this as it doesnt make any fucking sense or that they shoot into the sky as a warning shot, which btw also doesnt make any fucking sense.

Im not going to continue beating a dead horse, but we dont just recklessly shoot everyone, and hope they die, but this is the things that you will knit pick out when you are grabbing for anything to troll with.

[Utrakil]

For you AntiBlitz:
Hard to find info about german law in english language. but here is some evidence for the warning shot.
http://gawker.com/5909283/german-police-really-dont-like-shooting-at-people-used-only-85-bullets-last-year

"Statistics compiled by the German Police University show that German police officers fired a total of 49 warning shots and 36 shots aimed at individuals while pursuing suspects last year. From those incidents, 15 people were injured, and six were killed." [in 2011]

You see warning shots are used more often than aimed shots.

I will keep looking for some english proof for legshots
Maybe you find some translator for this german site. it states some rules about firearm usage for police:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffengebrauch_der_Polizei_in_Deutschland

By the way is there a guidebook for US cops or whatever you are about how to use their firearm?
I would really apreciate if you could share a copy or link.

[Teeth]

im sorry what? where did you get all this misinformation from?  i barely want to comment back, just because im overwhelmed by the shear stupidity in this post.  Nobody is trained to shoot someone in the legs, nobody is trained to fire warning shots(you are liable for every shot fired, firing into the air to tell someone not to shoot, or you are about to fire even sounds stupid as well), yes internal investigations are standard procedure for use of force policies, some agencies will even ask outside agencies to perform them, so that they cannot be held liable for people saying "it was swept under the rug".  This is exactly the type of constant misinformation that not only you, but every citizen has, you have not a clue, your full of movie drama, and misconceptions.  Congratulations on being completely wrong, please bring forward some sort of evidence stating they have been trained to shoot people in the legs, because as far as im trained, if im bringing out my sidearm, its for a reason, and im not going to shoot them in the legs, im shooting to neutralize a threat.

Misinformation? Not having a clue? I am being wrong? You turd, this is information I took right of the official website of the Dutch police, outlining how and when they are allowed to use weapons, which is what I described. This is literally how my country's law enforcement uses guns and I am damn satisfied with these regulations.

http://www.politie.nl/onderwerpen/schietincident.html

That is my source, hope your Dutch is good. Who's stupid now?

[Lt_Anders]

Wait, EURO cops actually gotta carry guns? I thought they were all like da british cops and didn't carry guns cause europe is so safe.

I do believe that someone posted stats before where in EU, you suffer more knife stabbings(significantly more) than US suffers Gunshot wounds, but the US ones are more fatal.

I do remember when reading a travel site about visiting the US, one of the most interesting things I found was the Law Enforcement section.

American police are generally polite, professional, and honest. When in uniform, they are also more formal, cautious, and cold than police in, say, Latin America—especially in large cities. If stopped by the police, you should stay calm, be polite and cooperative, avoid making sudden movements, and state what you are doing if you need to reach for your purse or wallet to present your identification. Often police will ask you to keep your hands out of your pockets while speaking to them. This is for security and is in no way meant to be offensive. American police officers are always armed while on duty. Turn on the inside car lights and keep your hands on the wheel to make it clear that you are not a threat. Do not exit the vehicle unless told to do so. If you follow the officer's instructions, you will probably not be arrested (unless you have actually committed a crime or resemble someone who recently committed one in the immediate vicinity).

Do not offer bribes to a police officer in any way or under any circumstances. U.S. police culture categorically rejects bribes. The mere suggestion would very likely result in your immediate arrest. If you need to pay a fine, the officer can direct you to the appropriate police station, courthouse, or government office. Most minor traffic infractions can be paid by mail. Don't even think about paying a fine directly to the officer who issued it, since this will probably be interpreted as a bribe.

http://wikitravel.org/en/Main_Page
Pretty neat page. Gives you some info about your own country you probably would never look at.

[AntiBlitz]

Misinformation? Not having a clue? I am being wrong? You turd, this is information I took right of the official website of the Dutch police, outlining how and when they are allowed to use weapons, which is what I described. This is literally how my country's law enforcement uses guns and I am damn satisfied with these regulations.

http://www.politie.nl/onderwerpen/schietincident.html

That is my source, hope your Dutch is good. Who's stupid now?

For you AntiBlitz:
Hard to find info about german law in english language. but here is some evidence for the warning shot.
http://gawker.com/5909283/german-police-really-dont-like-shooting-at-people-used-only-85-bullets-last-year

"Statistics compiled by the German Police University show that German police officers fired a total of 49 warning shots and 36 shots aimed at individuals while pursuing suspects last year. From those incidents, 15 people were injured, and six were killed." [in 2011]

You see warning shots are used more often than aimed shots.

I will keep looking for some english proof for legshots
Maybe you find some translator for this german site. it states some rules about firearm usage for police:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffengebrauch_der_Polizei_in_Deutschland

By the way is there a guidebook for US cops or whatever you are about how to use their firearm?
I would really apreciate if you could share a copy or link.

The problem with pulling policy and procedure manuals is that they are on a internal link, and i cant post it, though i have a hard copy you could look at.  The other problem is too is that the policy is done based upon the agencies policies which can vary from agency to agency, and state to state.  So what is fine in maryland, isnt in Texas.  I spoke from experience, and honestly am shocked that they allow such a thing, considering that things like this happen(posted below), firing a warning shot is just silly in nature, and doesnt make sense, and shooting a gun doesnt seem like it would change anything except expending the gun with a loud bang(and possibly killing innocent people).  Let me also just say, how the fuck was i supposed to find that, i searched for british stuff, and secondly, i cant read foreign languages lol.  But i will say, yes i am wrong, and stand corrected, if thats what it even states, considering for all i know this could be a uniform policy or something silly.  Im sure after the first person dies from warning shot fire, that the policy will be changed, extreme events must occur before things change unfortunately.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ohio-freak-death-man-fires-gun-air-bullet-travels-mile-kills-15-year-old-amish-girl-article-1.994626
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/va-boys-death-puts-focus-celebratory-gunshots
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2356851/Seven-year-old-boy-dies-hit-stray-bullet-fired-air-walked-July-4-fireworks-display.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

    July 4, 2013: A 7-year old boy, Brendon Mackey, was struck in the top of his head and killed while walking with his father shortly before 9 p.m. amid a large crowd prior to the fireworks display over the Swift Creek Reservoir.
    July 4, 2012: A 34-year woman, Michelle Packard, was struck in the head and killed while watching the fireworks with her family. The police believe the shot could have come from a mile away.
    January 1, 2010: A four-year-old boy, Marquel Peters, was struck by a bullet and killed inside his church The Church of God of Prophecy in Decatur, GA. It is presumed the bullet may have penetrated the roof of the church around 12:20AM.
    December 28, 2005: A 23-year-old U.S. Army private on leave after basic training fired a 9mm pistol into the air in celebration with friends, according to police, and one of the bullets came through a fifth-floor apartment window in the New York City borough of Queens, striking a 28-year-old mother of two in the eye. Her husband found her lifeless body moments later. The shooter had been drinking the night before and turned himself in to police the next morning when he heard the news. He was charged with second-degree manslaughter and weapons-related crimes, and was later found guilty and sentenced to four to 12 years in prison.

    June 14, 1999: Arizona, A fourteen year-old girl, Shannon Smith, was struck on the top of her head by a bullet and killed while in the backyard of her home.  This incident resulted in Arizona enacting "Shannon's Law" in 2000, that made the discharge of a firearm into the air illegal

    December 31, 1994: Amy Silberman, a tourist from Boston, was killed by a falling bullet from celebratory firing while walking on the Riverwalk in the French Quarter of New Orleans, Louisiana. The Police Department there has been striving to educate the public on the danger since then, frequently making arrests for firing into the air

[Utrakil]

  Im sure after the first person dies from warning shot fire, that the policy will be changed, extreme events must occur before things change unfortunately.

I think with a total of 50 warningshots a year the possibility that one of them is killing someone is negligible.
And for shure a warningshot is much less likely to harm anybody than an aimed shot which missed.

(didn't you post the video where police injured several bystanders with their aimed shots?)

[Teeth]

If someone makes a statement about a subject which you know little about while you disagree, you might want to think about discussing it in a little more careful manner than calling said person stupid and his statement ridiculous, repeatedly.

A warning shot is the clearest sign that you are about to be potentially killed by the police which does in fact convince a lot of suspects to comply with the police after all, its a sort of reality check for the life danger a suspect is about to be in. It also alerts bystanders so they get into cover or at least out of the way in case more shots have to be fired. There hasn't been a single record of a falling bullet casualty in the Netherlands, the chances are incredibly small. A falling bullet doesn't go all that fast either.

[Paul]

There was a special doctrin with former standard Bundeswehr pistol, the P1: "Eight warning shots and a deadly throw."

[AntiBlitz]

If someone makes a statement about a subject which you know little about while you disagree, you might want to think about discussing it in a little more careful manner than calling said person stupid and his statement ridiculous, repeatedly.

A warning shot is the clearest sign that you are about to be potentially killed by the police which does in fact convince a lot of suspects to comply with the police after all, its a sort of reality check for the life danger a suspect is about to be in. It also alerts bystanders so they get into cover or at least out of the way in case more shots have to be fired. There hasn't been a single record of a falling bullet casualty in the Netherlands, the chances are incredibly small. A falling bullet doesn't go all that fast either.

Well making statements about ones culture is also quite stupid, though i understand i did cross a line, im willing to apologize for the statement, though i disagree with it, considering that i believe most of europes views on guns are due to suppression and old views that arent up to date on the times at hand.
i still think the possibility of killing someone is greater than the physiological effect you are attempting to bring from a warning shot, ya i guess the claim is there with evidence of it working, but it just seems like something that was done ages ago, and no harm has come of it so far as to say it is bad.  Also making the statement that nobody has died from it in your country is a bad comparison, at 16,039 square miles, your country is quite small in comparison to the 3,794,101 sq miles, kinda hard to make comparisons.

I think with a total of 50 warningshots a year the possibility that one of them is killing someone is negligible.
And for shure a warningshot is much less likely to harm anybody than an aimed shot which missed.

(didn't you post the video where police injured several bystanders with their aimed shots?)

ya, i dont necessarily blame the police for that though, though yes they did take those shots and are ultimately liable for those shots, you cant help but say ask why everyone is just standing around trying to peak at what is happening.  People are just way to curious and would rather put themselves in danger trying to film shit and put it on youtube than protect themselves by fleeing the area.  I mean really come on, like 15 cops standing around with guns everywhere and they are just fucking around standing there, somebody was goin to get shot in that situation lol.  Poor choices on everyones part.

[Clockworkkiller]

ummmm...if your gonna willingly commit a crime, and dont understand the "life danger" that would put you in?

well then i weep for your children, hope they dont turn out as stupid as you did

[Teeth]

Well making statements about ones culture is also quite stupid, though i understand i did cross a line, im willing to apologize for the statement, though i disagree with it, considering that i believe most of europes views on guns are due to suppression and old views that arent up to date on the times at hand.

I am fairly sure that gun policy in the U.S. is more of a remnant of old times then the gun policies in Europe, where gun ownership was once free of government control as well. So gun policy has been updated to contain a ban on most firearms here. Adaptation of policy to the times at hand. This might be ridiculously hard to believe for an American, but there is simply no need to own or carry a gun in my country. Not once have I or pretty much anyone thought, gee wish I had a gun. The times at hand provide very little reason to own a gun, let alone carry one, my society is safe.

ummmm...if your gonna willingly commit a crime, and dont understand the "life danger" that would put you in?

well then i weep for your children, hope they dont turn out as stupid as you did

If someone steals a bike he forfeits his life to the judgement of a trigger-happy cop. Great fucking law system is that. God Americans and their guns, there is no point in even discussing anything until your thinking catches up 200 years. Until you let go of the Wild-West mindset and get some proper appreciation for human life and justice.

[Kafein]

ummmm...if your gonna willingly commit a crime, and dont understand the "life danger" that would put you in?

well then i weep for your children, hope they dont turn out as stupid as you did

Commiting a minor crime without resisting arrest doesn't put you in danger unless you use deadly weapons yourself.


It seems to me that in the US, cops assume that everybody is a maniacal terrorist armed to the teeth unless proven otherwise.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

It really depends where in the US, but US cops aren't exactly particularly on morally higher grounds than criminals in a decent amount of places.
If someone is threatening someone else with a firearm then the threatened person is certainly not in the wrong for shoot first, arrest later, policies.