Just to clarify...No, it's actually a huge buff. Weapon "hitboxes" are simple things. Warband just creates something like a bar that protrudes out from the hand until it reaches the appropriate distance depending upon the weapon length stat. If this "bar" come into contact with a player's hit capsule, warband registers a hit. Warband checks to see where you hit as far as sweet spots go, then finishes the damage calculation. For thrusts, the sweetspot is entirely dependent upon when in the release animation the weapon connected with the opponent ( as a matter of total progression, 30% through the anim, 50% through, 70%,etc). For thrusts, you want to hit between 35 and 65% of the release animation's progression, otherwise you suffer from large damage penalties(up to 0% total raw damage).
They changed the animation to better match the actual hit box of the 1h stab?
So really 1h stab isn't buffed at all, it just looks the way it acts now?
Just wanted to make sure, I keep hearing they buffed 1h stab but after reading a bit into it, it seems more like it just visually looks more like how it performs.
Thanks
Did you do the same type of moving of sweetspots to the polestab and does this mean I will have a harder time stabbing at close range with a pike?It's not moving a sweetspot, it's changing when the tip of the weapon moves. Answer: Yes and yes, although much less was done to the pole thrust than the 1h thrust. It's worth mentioning though, that if you turn your thrusts into your opponent you're no worse off than before(you just have to get used to reacting to slightly different visuals.
My thoughts on 1h stab - it's awesome.Right now all thrusts are basically on the same page as far as how optimized they are for the thrust sweetspots. I'd agree that all thrusts are probably too easy to use. To fix this, all that needs done, is to increase the speed at which the weapon goes from ~50-60% to about 95% total reach, this way the timing for an optimal max distance hit becomes more difficult, although still doable. As it stands, all thrust animations are pretty easy to land a solid max distance hit with. It is true however, that I much prefer thrusts how they are now, than how they were.
But there is an issue, now it's an ultimate 1h hit direction, even more than stab as 2h.
I think you should revert it by about 20-30% to make it balanced, Tydeus. That way it would reach a perfect balance point imo.
Rebuff elite scimi please... thxNo! fuck the scimi.
First off, thanks for the hard work Tydeus. The 1h stab is a beast of a move now, nice to have that in our set of options as a shielder. Before it was pretty shit imo, so much so that I actually only used weapons with no stab as it's tendency to glance would get me killed constantly. Now I'm considering switching to a weapon with a stab, it's damaging, fast, and almost instant to the point where it leaves little time for reaction (though I believe that's my ping). Anywho enough ranting, thanks again Tydeus. :D
No! fuck the scimi.
Still getting used to this thing. The 1h stab animation has been so useless for so long now, that when someone acctually uses it I dont see it coming. Im also having a hard time convincing myself on the inside that when I go for a stab with my 1h it nolonger means a 100% definate fuck up, like it did before.
Point is: Thank you! :D
So easy to follow up a swing with a free stab and breaking the attack/block pattern now. An enemy literally can't re-attack if you do it right. :D
Needs to be rebuffed because the stab is OP.
I am glad you agree that the elite scimi should be rebuffed to compensate for everything that has just been buffed.
Which is nutty, instead of fixing the slightly-nerfed lightsaber stab of two-handers, they brought the rest of the weapons equivalent lightsaber stabs to compensate.
Still have mixed feelings on that...
So easy to follow up a swing with a free stab and breaking the attack/block pattern now. An enemy literally can't re-attack if you do it right. :D
they need more damage tbh im getting hit off like scottish sword thrusts and they are doing like 10hp each hit, yes i have tested it.
Which is nutty, instead of fixing the slightly-nerfed lightsaber stab of two-handers, they brought the rest of the weapons equivalent lightsaber stabs to compensate.
Still have mixed feelings on that...
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You know that it's just a joke ?A rather lame joke. Go take the lametrain to Lametown you megalaming sperg.
A rather lame joke. Go take the lametrain to Lametown you megalaming sperg.
You know that it's just a joke ?Huseby was no doubt referring to your avatar and his opinions on peasantry
I was actually referring to your empty spoilers (pro tip, if you see more than 2 spoilers in a post, just click "Quote" and it bypasses the bullshit).
Also peasant scum are building up in my horse's hooves, so I'm not a big fan of them. Don't you have some wheat to harvest so the brewer can make this beer that I'm such a big fan of?
I play a ton of 1H and my fav wep is the long espada so I do a ton of stabbing. That said... I don't find my stabs any easier to land, but they do seem to hurt people a bit more. I think it might be more noticeable for those with more than 5PS though cause I have been seeing people getting 1shot a lot more with stabs lately (just not often from me!)My guess would be that you're trying to hit at the same spot in the animation(same frame by appearance), this would result in you hitting before the sweet spot(too early), as frames were shifted forward, you are now looking for different indicators to tell you when to connect the weapon with the opponent.
In the end I am happy for the equality but I think a more sophisticated move would have been to tone down the sweetspot of 2h instead of bringing 1h on the same level.
First of all I'm all the way for animation buff.as far as i know, only weapons specialized for stabbing have stab over 30 and they need to be loomed for this. point is they usually pay with slash, so all-in-all this is balanced.
It is ok. that 1H have better animation stab. But on the other side if animation stay like this, devs need to think about lowering pierce for some 1H swords.
Because with this fast animation - thrust over 30 and speed over 100 (some swords) - this is too deadly.
2H swords - only German Greatsword +3 have 29 pierce, but speed 91, also some polearm have high thrust but low speed.
there was a reason 1 handed stabs were nerfed to glance alot way back
, this is because they are fuckin op if they dont have the glance chance,
huge damage and eazy to spam.
i dont even dare to ride into 1handers nomore on a loomed heavy horse because they just get 1 shot to the face by the stabs.
It is ok. that 1H have better animation stab. But on the other side if animation stay like this, devs need to think about lowering pierce for some 1H swords.
Because with this fast animation - thrust over 30 and speed over 100 (some swords) - this is too deadly.
5-hitting people is too deadly ? How many hits should be necessary in your opinion ?
No, but with new animation is enough 1 or 2 stab easy. Check out servers, players dying from 1h - 1 stab non stop.
2handers cant facehug insta stab like 1 handers can ...
First of all I'm all the way for animation buff.
It is ok. that 1H have better animation stab. But on the other side if animation stay like this, devs need to think about lowering pierce for some 1H swords.
Because with this fast animation - thrust over 30 and speed over 100 (some swords) - this is too deadly.
2H swords - only German Greatsword +3 have 29 pierce, but speed 91, also some polearm have high thrust but low speed.
2handers cant facehug insta stab like 1 handers can, 2handers also suffer glance downtime, im not saying 2handed stab isnt good, im just stating 1 handed is way better if you are in the heat of combat, ive seen people get 5 kills in a row with just spamming the onehanded stab recently.
You guys are aware that the stabs will get a slight nerf next patch because they are a bit too much, both 1h and polearm.
For the record I play with Bamboo and think both pole animations are a bit quick and connect reidiculously fast as 1h stab does.
two steps forwad, one step back, I see no problem in that.
false, 2 hander has longer recover time nab,and no u cant wiggle them arround... only things that truly do that are pikes.How would you be able to wiggle around a pike and not a 2h, your turn speed is a shit ton higher. Think you're the nab here who needs to step up his wiggling because I can stab around teammates and corners with a 2h and I can also facehug stab with a 2h. Just because you can't doesn't mean the weapon can't.
1h stab is pretty ridiculous right now, I agree, but not more ridiculous than the 2h stab has been forever.
Honestly...
It's the side sword that's OP.
How would you be able to wiggle around a pike and not a 2h, your turn speed is a shit ton higher. Think you're the nab here who needs to step up his wiggling because I can stab around teammates and corners with a 2h and I can also facehug stab with a 2h. Just because you can't doesn't mean the weapon can't.
The reach on 2h stab turns an already good swinging weapon into an extremely potent anti cav and support weapon. You basically get a Great Long Axe and a Long Awlpike in an all in one package. Don't go all boohoo poor 2h on me. 1h stab is pretty ridiculous right now, I agree, but not more ridiculous than the 2h stab has been forever.
1h facehug stabs glance like before if you just stab.with your agil build maybe
with your agil build maybe
typical arrogant response from you, im saying pike can do it because it has the ability to hit through stuff, if you let a 2 hander hit you with a lol stab as a shielder it means you are failing your block not the 2hander hitting ''arround'' your shield. point blank hitting with 2 hander still requires a ''lol'' turnstab, witch 1 handers dont really need as it currently is, so ye the lol stab isnt as instant. also it is true that i dont lol stab asmuch as other 2 handers , but thats because my heavy greatsword has slowest turn speed of all greatswords. still know how to abuse it thow. but fuck that.Not so typical because I rephrased my post after reading you are calling people nabs yourself, so perhaps a typical response when dealing with arrogant you.
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but that the devs, in their infallible wisdom ( :rolleyes: ) decided to change the native stab animations in order to try and remove lolstabWho the... What? Who said that was the objective? It was purely to optimize the animation for its sweetspot. This has nothing to do with "lolstab". To be quite honest, the animation changes have done exactly what I knew they would do, and that's cause QQ for being nearly as effective as 2h thrusts.
This thread, now about rufio.
Btw I don't really get this post :
Is it not impossible that you couldn't not find by error that maybe the opposite of everything I wasn't saying was not sarcastic ?
learn to downblock, damn man havent thought of that, il go practice now! thx for the indepth advice!!Yeah, guess what... that is the perfect way to not get hit by a stab. Awesome, isn't it? :wink:
That is not a problem. If I don't downblock, and get stabbed it is my mistake.And it doesn't do more. Difference is only that before you got slashed with a swing cuz nobody really bothered using the stab cuz it wasn't good. That was cut damage on your plate.
But if you kill me, or take 80% health from ONE stab with 1H sword - than, that is the problem.
It is the weapon for ONE hand and should not be possible to make more damage than TWO handed sword or polearm.
And along comes Gurni stating that he could do it and everyone else was just bad.
Right, so now my 81 length weapon has a good stab on it, hence why I bought it in the first place.
The issue with lolstab was it was fast, long, and hit for a lot of damage.
1h stab hits for a lot of damage and is fast, but by no means is it nearly as long as a pole or 2h stab.
Well, 1h stab really wasn't that bad before patch :P I saw quite a lot guys doing fine with 1h stabbing weapons and never got why ppl complain so much about broken 1h thrust.Never sad it was bad. I actually used quite a lot but it was way harder to get in properly as it is now. Just stating this doesn't mean I wasn't capable as was assumed.
At the beginning I thought that 1h stab with new animation and whatever else Tydeus did was really OP. Now, after playing a few hours, though I still think it's overbuffed I don't agree it's game breaking at any point. I'd prefer a bit harder "animation", currently it's really hard to fail with 1h stab, but whatever, doesnt really matter to me.
Anyone saying that the 1h thrust wasn't viable before was just bad at using it. I used a non-loomed espada with 6 ps and 6 ath and it was awesome. :)
...
People have to actually block 1h stabs now -> people complain.
Instead of fixing 2h stab they broke 1h stab to "balance" things. Now you can stab into the sky with 1h and bring it down effectively impaling some guys face with your knuckles just like 2h now.
actually, that always worked but very few people did it. now you dont have to do goofy ass shit to make your stab land reliably, you just have to do a nice stab and instead of glancing 50% of the time you will probably hit! much better!
This is honestly the truth to the change. I'm a nonstop 2hand abuser but I've always enjoyed 1hand classes, which my main currently is.
Pretty sure the great majority of "good" 1handers ended up using weapons without a stab, because it was practically useless garbage in the majority of situations. Thrusting was a feint direction, unless you really wanted to punch yourself in the dick over struggling with the Warband engine to get anything but a glance at all no matter the circumstances.
Even still the 1hand stab isn't as bullshit as a 2hand stab. Its not as easy to aim and nowhere near as long. Not as reliable for killsteals or cav kills like the Longsword and up is.
But 1hand stabs are certainly fun to use! Which is the best part of the change. It actually added "fun" to a class, instead of removing it like every other cRPG change I can remember.
To be clear, there isn't anything that can really be done about the so called "lolstab". It's just the nature of the beast, you either have a shit thrust, or you have all the different things that people call "lolstab". Fixing this would require a hell of a lot of work, and so I think it's extremely unrealistic to expect such a thing. Blame TW.
Would cutting back on the turn speed on the thrusts (like what was done to the pole thrust a while back)All weapons had their turn speeds greatly reduced during thrusts and overheads. The amount depends on the weight and length of the weapon, with the length malus also depending on the weapon class.
Its cool that there are changes but now a lot of 1h has so deadly stabs cause damages are not adjusted to that good attack.
That would be like my bastard sword had a 28 pierce stab. It has 21.
There was no need to look at stabstats of 1h until now cause it was not used by a lot of people.
...
Side sword is only +1 cut, +1 pierce, and -1 speed from what it was before, not that much better. Other stab 1hs like the broad short sword were also already nerfed. Only a few swords have greater than 26 pierce stabs.
Good pierce 1hs typically have low cut swings. Only exception is the spathion, but it's slow, its overheads sometimes bounce on the ground, and its turn radius is pretty bad compared to the others.
QFT. Think of stabby 1h+shield users as hoplites that trade horse rearing and nearly a meter of reach for really crappy sideswings that often glance. Even at +3, a side sword (with one of the better cut damage values of the stabby weapons) often requires over 10 sideswings to kill a typical strength 2h players in loomed medium armor.
I was fighting Asca yesterday (who routinely tops the scoreboard using a +3 LEE), and I just made a conscience effort to avoid getting stabbed, while exposing myself to sideswings. His slashes did pitiful damage, and I only have 53 HP and moderate armor (52h/64b). A str 2h in loomed transitional or something can pretty much ignore 30c sideswings and assume they will glance.
while it has 35 cut damage. there is no 1h weapon with a thrust attack that has that high damage for swings.
One thing I did notice with stabs, is that polearm and 2h are still very dangerous stabbing weapons.
Oh cmon Mala. You can still use that weapons with a shield. Thats the thing that can block arrows. Thats the thing that can block mutltiple attacks at once. Thats the thing blocking all directions of attacks without special effort. Its hard to discuss serious about a topic if 35 cut of the bastard sword are the reason why 1h should have particullary superstabdamage without keeping all the other benefits in mind.
1hers always think they have the worst possiblities of all the classes. That´s what it has been 12 months ago. They were already good before they got a 2h-like stab.
I am not even saying revert the stab cause it was crap for sure. I am just saying that there are multiple 1h which need readjusted stabdamage.
Oh cmon Mala. You can still use that weapons with a shield. Thats the thing that can block arrows. Thats the thing that can block mutltiple attacks at once. Thats the thing blocking all directions of attacks without special effort. Its hard to discuss serious about a topic if 35 cut of the bastard sword are the reason why 1h should have particullary superstabdamage without keeping all the other benefits in mind.Blocking arrows is an advantage, but if you know how to play and got more than 5 ath and don't wear plate blocking multiple attacks at once isn't a huge advantage.
1hers always think they have the worst possiblities of all the classes. That´s what it has been 12 months ago. They were already good before they got a 2h-like stab.
I am not even saying revert the stab cause it was crap for sure. I am just saying that there are multiple 1h which need readjusted stabdamage.
Its funny like all those people behave. Probably those "2h-my old friendgs" or whatever you call them are 1h now cause i dont think anyone is interested in a serious discussion.
My only statement was that i think that some of the stabdamages have to be looked at and all of you go full retardmode saying i want an overall 1hnerf and that i am a stupidfuckbitchwhore or something like that ;) Just like those 2h-people you all cry so much about.
Edit: And I think 2h's vastly superior cut damage and stab reach offsets similar stab damage.
Blocking arrows is an advantage, but if you know how to play and got more than 5 ath and don't wear plate blocking multiple attacks at once isn't a huge advantage.
Its funny like all those people behave. Probably those "2h-my old friendgs" or whatever you call them are 1h now cause i dont think anyone is interested in a serious discussion.
My only statement was that i think that some of the stabdamages have to be looked at and all of you go full retardmode saying i want an overall 1hnerf and that i am a stupidfuckbitchwhore or something like that ;) Just like those 2h-people you all cry so much about.
A shield isn't grounds for abysmal weapon stats anymore. Years ago when people were bad at blocking it was though.
I swear even the 100+ speed shields are vastly slower to block than weapons are, at least within a short window after releasing your block. I "block feint" (release block for a split second to force a holder to release their swing) a lot, and I'm amazed how often my 103 speed shield doesn't re-raise fast enough. Not to mention it seems shields are easier to crush through than weapons, and the aforementioned weight penalty.
First off, the shield animations have absolutely nothing to do with blocking. The animation is just for show.
I REALLY wish they would reduce the weight of shields somehow. Either a straight reduce or by having shield skill reduce the effective weight. The MASSIVE penalty they put on movement speed makes me not want to use them.
First off, the shield animations have absolutely nothing to do with blocking. The animation is just for show.
I think a lot of issues with "attacks going through shields" has to do with the terrible shield implementation in m&b:
- It's much more difficult to judge a shield's blockable area than blocking with a weapon. When you block with a weapon, the weapon actually moves giving you visual indication of the area that it covers. A shield remains stationary and it is held in such a way that makes it easy to mis-judge the centerpoint of your character.
- A shield's surface area is completely different from its blockable area. (vs melee) No matter what shield you have, it covers the SAME exact area as manual blocking does. Again, it makes it easy to mis-judge the actual blockable area.
As far as crushthrough, I have a few theories:
- Shields are a pretty steep investment in points. Most classes have more points to spend and on average will have higher strength, making it easier to resist crushthrough.
- Shield weight makes you slow as hell, not to mention that you move turtle slow when going backwards with a shield up.
- When blocking, shielders tend to hold and manual players tap. A manual blocker will often move backwards faster because of this. Thereby dramatically reducing the speed bonus of the mauler. Because the mauler is doing less damage, it's easier to resist. Shielders with their turtle-slow, shield-up backwards movement, barely reduce the speed bonus.
Shields are still very useful utility items. You are practically invulnerable from the front unless you make a mistake. Still, I REALLY wish they would reduce the weight of shields somehow. Either a straight reduce or by having shield skill reduce the effective weight. The MASSIVE penalty they put on movement speed makes me not want to use them.
First off, the shield animations have absolutely nothing to do with blocking. The animation is just for show.
I think a lot of issues with "attacks going through shields" has to do with the terrible shield implementation in m&b:
- It's much more difficult to judge a shield's blockable area than blocking with a weapon. When you block with a weapon, the weapon actually moves giving you visual indication of the area that it covers. A shield remains stationary and it is held in such a way that makes it easy to mis-judge the centerpoint of your character.
- A shield's surface area is completely different from its blockable area. (vs melee) No matter what shield you have, it covers the SAME exact area as manual blocking does. Again, it makes it easy to mis-judge the actual blockable area.
As far as crushthrough, I have a few theories:
- Shields are a pretty steep investment in points. Most classes have more points to spend and on average will have higher strength, making it easier to resist crushthrough.
- Shield weight makes you slow as hell, not to mention that you move turtle slow when going backwards with a shield up.
- When blocking, shielders tend to hold and manual players tap. A manual blocker will often move backwards faster because of this. Thereby dramatically reducing the speed bonus of the mauler. Because the mauler is doing less damage, it's easier to resist. Shielders with their turtle-slow, shield-up backwards movement, barely reduce the speed bonus.
Shields are still very useful utility items. You are practically invulnerable from the front unless you make a mistake. Still, I REALLY wish they would reduce the weight of shields somehow. Either a straight reduce or by having shield skill reduce the effective weight. The MASSIVE penalty they put on movement speed makes me not want to use them.
I'm playing shielder this gen, getting a good KD and valor every other round while half asleep. If you're too slow, stop crutching strength so much.
I'm really surprised how many shielders waste their time with IF and WM.
Considering that nearly every death for a shielder is the result of a nudge, kick, teamhit, or projectile, IF is just as important for a shielder as any other melee. But you also need high athletics due to your shorter reach and to avoid maulers. And you pretty much need to hybrid polearms or throwing to have a chance against cavalry, so you need WM.
Basically, shielders need to be lvl 33+ to not have a major deficiency, much like archers. Pure 2h and pole are pretty much set at lvl 30 (just bring a cheap shield for ranged).
Footwork will save you from kicks and nudges. I've been winning over 50% of challenges from cav, that's how good the 1h stab is now.
I would further deconstruct your post, but it would be a waste of time. All I'm saying is stop going 24/15 or 21/15 and then complaining you're too slow. I was getting valor consistently at level 24 with 3 shield skill. It's not nearly as big of an investment as you'd think. Cavalry players have to invest more points and gold for a much smaller payoff.
Step 1: invest 3 points into riding
Step 2: get a rouncey
Step 3: be a dickless coward who only ever blindsides people from behind.
Step 4: profit.
Sounds easier than doing well as a shielder to me!
Footwork will save you from kicks and nudges. I've been winning over 50% of challenges from cav, that's how good the 1h stab is now.
I would further deconstruct your post, but it would be a waste of time. All I'm saying is stop going 24/15 or 21/15 and then complaining you're too slow. I was getting valor consistently at level 24 with 3 shield skill. It's not nearly as big of an investment as you'd think. Cavalry players have to invest more points and gold for a much smaller payoff.
As Jona pointed out in another thread, athletics actually makes you more likely to be kicked, not less. The faster you move, the more likely you are to end up in the giant stuncone that lasts over a second. Most of the people complaining about shield weight slowing you down are agility builds anyway (myself included), so I don't know why you keep talking about strength builds.
The valor argument isn't relevant to anything; the current system rewards people for staying alive and being near the fight; actually killing people has a very small overall contribution. Anyone with a shield is a low priority target, so they can stay near the action and not get targetted. That doesn't mean shields are awesome, just that the point/valor system is flawed.
Why are you face hugging, being predictable and getting kicked? I don't stay that close to 2h cause I don't want to get hilt slashed. I don't stay close to other 1h cause steel picks are short. I don't want to say you're a bad player, but you sure post like one.
It's why I have 8 athletics and still feel slow
Kind of a side note here, but the horse bump nerf has both saved me and hurt me dozens upon dozens of times. Sometimes I'll get stuck on one person if the elevation is right (but doesn't look too steep) and will get me killed (yeah a person is going to stop a horse from moving forward...good call crpg). Other times it's saved me where I'll bump/lance the first guy and I'll slow down so much that I'm able to steer away from the pikeman/spearman who was waiting behind the first infantry guy. I gotta imagine those guys are like "WTF"?I can ride over at least two infantry if they're not standing on a small cliff on my 0+ steppe horse, so I don't see how it can be a problem on a courser, and while before the bump nerf regular people only took like 10% damage from a 3+ destrier bump such a bump would onehit people without/with low armor.
I personally think the bumps were better before the nerf, and weren't OP. It's pretty ridiculous if I'm riding at top speed on a courser and can get routinely stuck if two infantry guys are basically right next to each other (I'll come to a complete stop on the second guy). Or will get stuck/reared by one person if there's any sort of elevation.
(8 athletics atm and its easy for me to ctach up to someone and try to stab but it will ALWAYS glance)8 athletics would mean fairly low powerstrike and thus more glance would it not?