1h Stab animation change... ?

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

This is honestly the truth to the change. I'm a nonstop 2hand abuser but I've always enjoyed 1hand classes, which my main currently is.

Pretty sure the great majority of "good" 1handers ended up using weapons without a stab, because it was practically useless garbage in the majority of situations. Thrusting was a feint direction, unless you really wanted to punch yourself in the dick over struggling with the Warband engine to get anything but a glance at all no matter the circumstances.

Even still the 1hand stab isn't as bullshit as a 2hand stab. Its not as easy to aim and nowhere near as long. Not as reliable for killsteals or cav kills like the Longsword and up is.

But 1hand stabs are certainly fun to use! Which is the best part of the change. It actually added "fun" to a class, instead of removing it like every other cRPG change I can remember.

Respect earned.  Ultimately I like new 1h stab over old one.  I just have this image burned to my retina of Rulka's Long Espada Eslavona sword tip going half a foot to the side of my head and taking full damage to the face.  Still, better than whiff whiff power and it's good to hear a 2her NOT spamming how skilled he is for not using "shielder autoblock hax" or how unjustly he is raped by arrows that actually don't bounce off his mediocre armour.

[Camaris]

Its cool that there are changes but now a lot of 1h has so deadly stabs cause damages are not adjusted to that good attack.
That would be like my bastard sword had a 28 pierce stab. It has 21.
There was no need to look at stabstats of 1h until now cause it was not used by a lot of people.
Now every 2nd attack is a stab so its time to have a look at some stats.

And pls dont forget 1h/shield is more common then 1h w/o. It would be awesome if there could be some weapons that dont allow a shield to keep that class viable.
That way you could adjust damage better.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

To be clear, there isn't anything that can really be done about the so called "lolstab". It's just the nature of the beast, you either have a shit thrust, or you have all the different things that people call "lolstab". Fixing this would require a hell of a lot of work, and so I think it's extremely unrealistic to expect such a thing. Blame TW.

Would cutting back on the turn speed on the thrusts (like what was done to the pole thrust a while back) not at least make it more difficult to do the lolstab?  In other words, when you release a thrust, the thrust would be made to go in the general direction that you initiated the thrust in rather than you being able to start an thrust, turn 90+ degrees and still land with full damage (the latter is physically impossible irl).

Thank you for being involved in this community discussion btw, its good to see someone with demi-dev powers or potential involved and interacting with the players.

[Vodner]

Would cutting back on the turn speed on the thrusts (like what was done to the pole thrust a while back)

All weapons had their turn speeds greatly reduced during thrusts and overheads. The amount depends on the weight and length of the weapon, with the length malus also depending on the weapon class.

The turn speed reduction is what caused the need for the thrust buff in the first place. Prior to it, you were guaranteed to be able to land a full-damage 1h stab at close range, no matter what your opponent did.

[Phew]

1h thrust is no longer in the "useless" category, but it still has weaknesses. If you are fighting a 1h user that is preparing a thrust, just charge his right arm and it will probably still glance unless he does some wrist-wounding maneuver (thrust over your head then drag it down, or violently spin to the left). They have to decide whether they are willing to trade carpal tunnel syndrome for some close-range stabs landing.

The best part of the change is now that the low cut/high thrust 1h swords are popular again, a mediocre player using an unloomed espada/long espada/side sword is pretty much a quick free kill; just facehug them and spam away. As long as you have decent armor, their weak 25-29 cut sideswings will just glance.

[Mala]

Its cool that there are changes but now a lot of 1h has so deadly stabs cause damages are not adjusted to that good attack.
That would be like my bastard sword had a 28 pierce stab. It has 21.
There was no need to look at stabstats of 1h until now cause it was not used by a lot of people.
...

while it has 35 cut damage. there is no 1h weapon with a thrust attack that has that high damage for swings.

[MURDERTRON]

Before the change, the good stab 1h weapons had such a high damage stat so they wouldn't glance.  However, they never really dealt full damage because the animation is so bad.  Now they are dealing as much damage as two directional pole arms and more than hoplite weapons, which isn't how it should be.

This is mostly evident with the Side Sword, it recently got rebalanced (major buff), (minor) nerfed and then it got buffed again.  The CRPG team needs to stop doing double buffs and double nerfs.

[San]

Side sword is only +1 cut, +1 pierce, and -1 speed from what it was before, not that much better. Other stab 1hs like the broad short sword were also already nerfed. Only a few swords have greater than 26 pierce stabs.

Good pierce 1hs typically have low cut swings. Only exception is the spathion, but it's slow, its overheads sometimes bounce on the ground, and its turn radius is pretty bad compared to the others.

[Phew]

Side sword is only +1 cut, +1 pierce, and -1 speed from what it was before, not that much better. Other stab 1hs like the broad short sword were also already nerfed. Only a few swords have greater than 26 pierce stabs.

Good pierce 1hs typically have low cut swings. Only exception is the spathion, but it's slow, its overheads sometimes bounce on the ground, and its turn radius is pretty bad compared to the others.

QFT. Think of stabby 1h+shield users as hoplites that trade horse rearing and nearly a meter of reach for really crappy sideswings that often glance. Even at +3, a side sword (with one of the better cut damage values of the stabby weapons) often requires over 10 sideswings to kill a typical strength 2h players in loomed medium armor.

I was fighting Asca yesterday (who routinely tops the scoreboard using a +3 LEE), and I just made a conscience effort to avoid getting stabbed, while exposing myself to sideswings. His slashes did pitiful damage, and I only have 53 HP and moderate armor (52h/64b). A str 2h in loomed transitional or something can pretty much ignore 30c sideswings and assume they will glance.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

QFT. Think of stabby 1h+shield users as hoplites that trade horse rearing and nearly a meter of reach for really crappy sideswings that often glance. Even at +3, a side sword (with one of the better cut damage values of the stabby weapons) often requires over 10 sideswings to kill a typical strength 2h players in loomed medium armor.

I was fighting Asca yesterday (who routinely tops the scoreboard using a +3 LEE), and I just made a conscience effort to avoid getting stabbed, while exposing myself to sideswings. His slashes did pitiful damage, and I only have 53 HP and moderate armor (52h/64b). A str 2h in loomed transitional or something can pretty much ignore 30c sideswings and assume they will glance.

Well said.  Asca is a she irl btw.

I've found the thrust now actually useful for stabbing at foes between allies (where a broad swing would tw and an over head risks the same).
I'm currently using a +3 Italian Sword and having piddled with the weapon damage calculator I found that the pierce stat on the weapon (27) doesn't out do the cut damage (33) until striking adversaries wearing 30 or higher and even then the difference is minimal (.5-1.0 average damage higher).  So basically this weapon (which has stats comparable to your average 1h sword) is pretty well balanced.  As Phew stated earlier, you still can't quite lolstab with 1h without having trippy mouse sensitivity or chucking our mouse across the desk (or cheap foam board for backing framed artwork that I got at Walmart in my case QQ).  Despite mentioned "general turn speed nerfing", I still find 2h stab to be an out of control beast (along with "hilt slashing fyi).

So there's my 2 cents.... for the third time.                 chadz you owe me 6 cents.

[Canuck]

I'd say instead of nerfing the thrust damages on the high pierce 1h weapons we should look more towards adding 2h weapons like the Estoc and shit that Smoothrich suggested a little while back. The heavy bastard swords and longswords don't need a thrust buff because they already have a huge cut advantage over the actually useful 1h thrust weapons + greater length. Also the people who use side swords or espadas with a shield are scum anyway, not true cool duelists

[Camaris]

while it has 35 cut damage. there is no 1h weapon with a thrust attack that has that high damage for swings.

Oh cmon Mala. You can still use that weapons with a shield. Thats the thing that can block arrows. Thats the thing that can block mutltiple attacks at once. Thats the thing blocking all directions of attacks without special effort. Its hard to discuss serious about a topic if 35 cut of the bastard sword are the reason why 1h should have particullary superstabdamage without keeping all the other benefits in mind.
1hers always think they have the worst possiblities of all the classes. That´s what it has been 12 months ago. They were already good before they got a 2h-like stab.

I am not even saying revert the stab cause it was crap for sure. I am just saying that there are multiple 1h which need readjusted stabdamage.

[CrazyCracka420]

Yes Camaris, 1h's can be used with shields.  1h swords are also much shorter than 2h swords, they do much less cut damage, and they have inferior animations.  You sound like a typical 2h lobbyist my old friend who can't be objective and think about both sides of the coin.  1h's have downsides as well, it's not all positives.  But you already knew that.

Also, everyone has a penis in game, regardless of what you have dangling between your legs IRL.  Calling people a "he" is not disrespectful. 

[Konrax]

I love how one of the comments was that stab didn't matter on stats before for 1h because hardly anyone ever used it.




So you basically just admitted it was gimp as shit before since "no one" used it.

I used it, it sucked learning how to land attacks.

Now it's really easy, I land attacks I could only dream of before.




One thing I did notice with stabs, is that polearm and 2h are still very dangerous stabbing weapons.

[Elindor]

One thing I did notice with stabs, is that polearm and 2h are still very dangerous stabbing weapons.

All weapons types are now very dangerous when it comes to stab - 1h, 2h, polearms

Stab in this game is probably the worst execution of physics, which is somewhat understandable as that kind of attack is the hardest for the engine to deal with realistically. 

And of course, one can always "BLOCK DWN NOOBZ" but of course as we all know, everyone occationally has trouble with stabs even though they know very well how to block down and do so on a regular basis.