Hilarious coming from a guy which abuses the heirloom system to get a insanely fast crushthrough weapon :lol:
As a non-2h user, I have no problem with stabs. I actually enjoy encoutering people that can utilize the spinthrust on 2h, as it brings chalange for me in terms of blocking. Also, unless you wanna make the thrust attack locked in the position in which you started it, I don't think you can get rid of the it.
Umm. Nemeth says "spinthrust", doesn't he? Meaning.. if it's not about spinstab then NOW IT IS beause if spinthrusts are OK then all thrusts are OK, OK?
And don't nerf any stabs, 2h is nice because, as Nemeth says, it brings challenge to blocking.
re-read the thread its not about spin stabs and it says so very clearly.
360 degree spinthrusts are not possible, neither pre-patch or now. :P
Also, the argument that they hit closer without bouncing is kind of a moot point, as everyone is using spinthrusts to stab you while facehugging you.
As for the hit boxes, I guess I would have to do some testing, but I don't feel like I'm getting stabbed if the stab misses me.
360 degree spinthrusts are not possible, neither pre-patch or now. :P
Ok, your homework:
Make a video of you turning 180° while stabbing a 3m pike forward. Don't forget to cut someone in half with the wooden part when you're at it.
I can garuntee pikes will bounce at point blank range.
Sorry, I hate to break it to you, but Reality was the least balanced thing there was.
Man, realism is so important. Let's change the game based on realism. Ultra buff to horse archers. Ultra buff to plate. Remove the Great Maul. ETC. ETC. Wait a minute, the game is suddenly massively unbalanced. How did this happen?
Sorry, I hate to break it to you, but Reality was the least balanced thing there was. I'd personally rather see a game balanced based on actual GAME BALANCE, not some random decisions as to what is or isn't realistic. If you want to remove the spinthrust, you'll have to massively change the way stabs and thrusts work, because currently most of the weapons turn into crap without them. If you can convince the dev team to do a massive redo of every weapon with a thrust, as well as changing the way the engine works, sure, fine. Go ahead, it'd be an interesting change. Until then, you'll have to live with the lack of 'realism'.
Banok I will be happy to test with you on duel server that without spinthrust, there is no way you can do full thrust damage on me with any weapon point blank.
Hilarious coming from a guy which abuses the heirloom system to get a insanely fast crushthrough weapon :lol:
I came to make a post about nerfing spin thrusts, but found this already here.
Spin thrusts need to go away. Yes, a 360 degree spin thrust is entirely possible, I've done it. How? You turn 181 degrees and when you snap your mouse back to front, it will complete the 360 spin for you.
Forgot to mention that the cavalry tactic of thrusting wide and just sweeping the haft through someone for full contact thrust damage is ridonculous.
Doesn't matter how you call it, it's still the same. The point is, you start the thrust not aiming at your target and when the thrust is at it's final stage, you swing it at your opponent, delivering full dmg if he does't block.
FYI I get hit pointblank even with the fucking 2 meter pike. the fact that people are using pike/awlpike only in duels vs people facehugging just backs up the OP with 100% fact.
Doesn't matter how you call it, it's still the same. The point is, you start the thrust not aiming at your target and when the thrust is at it's final stage, you swing it at your opponent, delivering full dmg if he does't block.
Erhm...it's very easy to use an extremely long weapon to thrust effectively at close range without spinning.
Chamber thrust, turn to the right slightly, release, turn left again while the weapon is extended (towards the guy you want to hit), bam, full damage. The point doesn't hit them, the side of the weapon does, but that doesn't seem to matter.
I call it "the swoop", it works with 2h weapons, polearms, but not 1h weapons.
I find it hilarious how every time the spin-thrust is criticized, there's loads of people screaming l2block.
I suppose the same people are ok if I add a 500 damage overhead, because, hey, it can be blocked.
l2balance.
How exactly is spinthrust imbalanced? AFAIK it can't oneshot you, unless with speed bonus
What is so imbalanced about spinthrust that needs to be fixed?
I find it hilarious how every time the spin-thrust is criticized, there's loads of people screaming l2block.Hmm yes. I would be ok with that.
I suppose the same people are ok if I add a 500 damage overhead, because, hey, it can be blocked.
l2balance.
I find it hilarious how every time the spin-thrust is criticized, there's loads of people screaming l2block.
I suppose the same people are ok if I add a 500 damage overhead, because, hey, it can be blocked.
l2balance.
All it does is make the game more interesting. Feinting, too, was not intended. The combat would be way too easy and boring if it was "realistic" and if we didn't have these "bugs."
All it does is make the game more interesting. Feinting, too, was not intended. The combat would be way too easy and boring if it was "realistic" and if we didn't have these "bugs."
People saying that it's the players fault for not blocking....sorry, but that is a really stupid argument.
The thrust mechanic is absolutely retarded. People thrust and deal full damage with their 5 foot long swords while they are nose to nose with the guy they are trying to hit. Same thing with any stabbing polearms. Once you get passed the guard of someone with a long weapon, the thrust attack shouldn't be viable. It's not a problem with the animation, it's the weapon hitboxes.
Don't cry about a broken game mechanic though, it's your fault for not blocking.
So, shall we "make the game more interesting" by completely removing the shield penalty? Or maybe doubling the polearm stun duration. That would make it "more interesting". Don't you agree?
No, it wouldn't. In the first case, shielders would be OP and the only class played. Second case, why? Nothing to do with skill, you can't block stun. Those two examples have nothing to do with spinthrust, which happens to be the only advantage 2h swords have over polearms.
So, shall we "make the game more interesting" by completely removing the shield penalty? Or maybe doubling the polearm stun duration. That would make it "more interesting". Don't you agree?
spinthrust, which happens to be the only advantage 2h swords have over polearms.
Polearm stun -> stun-lock, not block stun.
That can be blocked, so I guess you're ok with it. On second thought, triple might be better. After all, l2block.
After all, l2block.xD
Spinthrust is not imbalanced, the things you're coming up are. Apples and oranges.
My point still stands. Remove spinthrust and why would anyone use swords instead of, say, GLA? I really think you should try mastering the spinthrust yourself first, you'll notice it's not the destroyer of men and gods it's said to be.
CMP do you have any constructive ideas that could possibly fix the LOLstab?
so far it seems ...xD
or..
(fail forum quote :P)
l2balance.
Okay, so what advantages does German greatsword have over the Great Long Axe if the thrust is nerfed? GLA will have better damage, animation and bonus against shields.
That's what you say.
GLA will have better animation
speed and style.GLA's spd rtng is 92, just like the greatsword's.
also, the thrust should just be nerfed a little (range), not removed, so it would still ahve better thrust
Tell me how is it imbalanced then. The only thing you've said so far is that it is broken.
GLA's spd rtng is 92, just like the greatsword's.
And nice dodging, compxcompx.
lol, didnt check the numbers, srry for that :DDunno, 52 damage with GLA and bonus against shields would be pretty epic.
the greatsword would still ahve a much better stab and it gets better bonuses when heirloomed
Ah yes, because being able to deal full (pierce!) damage at point blank is not unbalanced enough.
You should check your sarcasm detector, it appears to be malfunctioning.
also, the thrust should just be nerfed a little (range), not removed, so it would still ahve better thrust
You can do spinthrust with every weapon.
All it does is, that you have to take one more direction into account when blocking. There are weapons that can do full (pierce!) damage with swings, it doesn't have anything to do with anything.
Dunno, 52 damage with GLA and bonus against shields would be pretty epic.
I'm sorry but you didnt bring any argument, except that it's broken.
So you're back to square one: the "l2block" argument. I don't want to repeat myself so I'll just link you my previous post (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2726.msg48027.html#msg48027) and you can browse the discussion again until you're back here again. Feel free to repeat the cycle, as many times as you want.
I'm sorry but you didnt bring any argument, except that it's broken.
So I didn't bring any argument, but I brought one. Err?
So I didn't bring any argument, but I brought one. Err?
except for
Usage Note: Except in the sense of "with the exclusion of" or "other than" is generally viewed as a preposition, not a conjunction. Therefore, a personal pronoun that follows except should be in the objective case: No one except me knew it. Everyone had a ticket except her.
CMP you offer no ideas as to how to fix it, but a million reasons as to why it should be fixed. xD
Sorry if I used it wrong though, English is not my native language.
german greatswords still get better looms
german:
+2 speed
+5 swing
+4 thrust
GLA:
+1 speed
+6 swing
+3 thrust
bonus vs shields
infact the GLA even has horse rearing if I'm not mistaken. Why not give it all the advantages the 2h sword has aswell. Heck let's make it usable with shield and no penalty either.
Well I agreed with you that it is broken, but you were saying it's imbalance, which I disagree with. Your only counter-argument was, that's it's broken. You see the logic loops there?
i never said the german greatsword is better than the GLA, i simply said that the heirloom bonuses are better (which they are)
german greatswords still get better looms
german:
+2 speed
+5 swing
+4 thrust
GLA:
+1 speed
+6 swing
+3 thrust
i just dont think anyone here would prefer 1 swing dmg over 1 speed +1 thrust (especially not when swing dmg is already that high, it's only 2-3% dmg increase)
BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS
Uh, because if something is broken it cannot be balanced properly? In this case it means without making the regular stab completely useless.
What is the suggestion then, that wouldn't make 2h inferior to polearms?
Why would removing spin-thrust from both make two handers inferior?
Because the only advantage 2H currently have over polearms is the better stab. Take it away and there will be no reason to use 2H when polearms are better in every other aspect.
And they're balanced around that. To compensate for lack of thrust, they get bonus vs shields and huge damage...
So can you give us exact figures on how "Huge" the differences are?
BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS BONUS VS SHIELDS
that is not a HEIRLOOM BONUS, that is just a basic weapon bonus!
im talking about HEIRLOOM BONUSES as i have already mentioned 100+ times
The HEIRLOOM BONUSES of both weapons are what i have listed several times, and of those HEIRLOOM BONUSES, the bonuses of the german greatsword are the best.
What is the point of having best hierloom bonuses if the weapon itself is inferior to its competitor?
that is not a HEIRLOOM BONUS, that is just a basic weapon bonus!
im talking about HEIRLOOM BONUSES as i have already mentioned 100+ times
The HEIRLOOM BONUSES of both weapons are what i have listed several times, and of those HEIRLOOM BONUSES, the bonuses of the german greatsword are the best.
german:
+2 speed
+5 swing
+4 thrust
GLA:
+1 speed
+6 swing
+3 thrust
Well then, feel free to play an axeman if we do.
Well then, feel free to play an axeman if we do.
Yeah that's fine, but people spent time getting their Gen3 swords. Will there be heirloom respecs?
Ill still play a weebo character, and it feels extra nice since i know you do not like weebo stuff =)
If you can balance thrusts so that IN PARTICULAR stab/overhead only weapons remain viable, that would be excellent.
Maybe, just maybe, the fact that it's using a glitch in the engine to bypass range and speed restrictions?
It's not the spinning per-se that is lame (it just looks retarded), it's the bonus that it gives you because someone was too lazy to make proper calculations like for other attacks and instead just used animation time.
Do you have a similar complaints with people turning during side swings and overheads? Side swings can be made much faster or slower by turning during the animation, and overhead attacks can be used similarly to side swings since you can turn 180+ degrees during the animation to hit a wide area.
Do you have a similar complaints with people turning during side swings and overheads?
Side swings can be made much faster or slower by turning during the animation
and overhead attacks can be used similarly to side swings since you can turn 180+ degrees during the animation to hit a wide area.
With or without spin thrusts, thrusts will remain unrealistic until their interaction with the block mechanics is somehow changed. You do not block thrusts without a shield, you deflect or dodge them. Both of which require much more body positioning and timing than the current holding your weapon across your crotch to block multiple pikes trying to put holes in you.
And how will we effectively deal with hilt-slashers(And I assure you, there will be more of them) with a slowed down/magically 'fixed' spinthrust?
With or without spin thrusts, thrusts will remain unrealistic until their interaction with the block mechanics is somehow changed. You do not block thrusts without a shield, you deflect or dodge them. Both of which require much more body positioning and timing than the current holding your weapon across your crotch to block multiple pikes trying to put holes in you.
And how will we effectively deal with hilt-slashers
With the other 3 attacks that still work at point blank range?
Besides, it doesn't make sense to leave a broken mechanic in just because it counters another broken mechanic. Much better to fix them both.
So what, you will try to 'fix' slashes aswell?
Why not? It's a matter of reducing/zeroing hit damage based on distance and length/blade position of weapon.
Why not? It's a matter of reducing/zeroing hit damage based on distance and length/blade position of weapon.Damn if you will do it I will never leave crpg.It means less facehugging dancing and more tactical fighting on distance.Cool.
So, 2h stab is the only thing that makes 2h weapons useable, according to all the good people?
/me wonders why the fuck is he using a miaodao.
- "It's the only advantage 2h weapons have over polearms." *Simply not true. 2h weapons have favorable animations which make them significantly longer when swung than a polearm of the same lenght. They have better thrust damage and the speed is about even.
What?
Yes, it is true. 2h weapons may have favorable animations (when it comes to length), but polearms have length 150 weapons too. Or you can go for GLA which is a bit shorter but has a superior swing animation (just like all polearms) and bonus vs shields (with all the shielders out there it's a HUGE plus) and more damage. Yeah, swords have better thrust damage, isn't that kinda the point?
And these polearms that have 150 length are slower and deal less damage than the shorter polearms. It's balanced, what is your point? "The high damage 2h weapons have extra reach from their animations, but these medium damage polearms make up for that with some extra base reach." You admit the 2h animation has extra reach, but then say that all polearms have better animations than 2h weapons. Care to clarify?
2h vs polearms isn't not the topic of the thread by the way.
Lol, yes. They're slower and deal less damage. = They're still faster and deal at least as much damage as 2h :D Why would you even bring the inner balance of polearms to the discussion? It's balanced for /polearms/ yes, but as a whole it's not if 2h stab becomes crap.
38 dmg is medium? Riight, okay? Then all 2h except the Flamburger deal medium damage and your point's moot.
And yeah, polearm animation is better (for slashes) except in length. It doesn't glance as easily and it's faster.
If you can't see why 2h vs polearms fits the topic (even after the explanations given before) then I can't help you.
38 damage is the same as what German greatsword has, not slightly less. Only flamberge has damage in the mid 40s of the 2h swords.
I'm done then, this can only escalate.
-I think 2h/polearm balance is fine.
The following arguments are irrelevent, and I would appreaciate if people stop repeating them.
- "You can block it." *You can block any attack (except crush through) that doesn't make it balanced.
- "You can do it with any weapon." *Yeah, thanks, that still doesn't make it a good thing.
- "It's the only advantage 2h weapons have over polearms." *Simply not true. 2h weapons have favorable animations which make them significantly longer when swung than a polearm of the same lenght. They have better thrust damage and the speed is about even.
The main problems I see with "spin thrusts" are realism, the way it looks and the fact that it takes away the situaitonal advantage of close ranged fighting from short weapons. A long weapon trying to stab a close range should glance, not deal massive damage.
The question is, how do you fix it?
No offense, but realism doesn't in a game. Unless it's a simulator.
Realism would imply strict adherence to real life.
Lastly, I'm pretty positive that the 2h slashes are less likely to glance at close range. Test it. Stand nose to nose with someone, slash with a longhafter blade, and then try with a Bastard sword. Tell me which (if either) glances. If niether of them glance, that's just another problem.
I've never glanced with a GLA when using it with 1 wpf
Doesn't wpf only increase speed?
Doesn't wpf only increase speed? It's like saying I've never glanced with glaive while eating pizza.
If it increases speed then when it contacts the target the damage will also be increased.
It is the difference from hitting you with the pizza, and giving a single slice to a baseball player and having him throw it at you.
If it increases speed then when it contacts the target the damage will also be increased.
It is the difference from hitting you with the pizza, and giving a single slice to a baseball player and having him throw it at you.