Author Topic: Blanket stab nerf needed  (Read 12646 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Vexus

  • Count
  • *****
  • Renown: 198
  • Infamy: 41
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Deus_Mortis
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #135 on: March 07, 2011, 10:52:48 pm »
0
Yea new 2h thrust animation is too fast compared to the other sides.

It may have made spin thrusts harder to do but it made thrusts too fast.

Offline chief

  • Beggar
  • Renown: 0
  • Infamy: 0
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #136 on: March 08, 2011, 12:46:39 am »
0
The following arguments are irrelevent, and I would appreaciate if people stop repeating them.

- "You can block it." *You can block any attack (except crush through) that doesn't make it balanced.
- "You can do it with any weapon." *Yeah, thanks, that still doesn't make it a good thing.
- "It's the only advantage 2h weapons have over polearms." *Simply not true. 2h weapons have favorable animations which make them significantly longer when swung than a polearm of the same lenght. They have better thrust damage and the speed is about even.

The main problems I see with "spin thrusts" are realism, the way it looks and the fact that it takes away the situaitonal advantage of close ranged fighting from short weapons. A long weapon trying to stab a close range should glance, not deal massive damage.

The question is, how do you fix it?

Offline Xant

  • Finnish Pony
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1552
  • Infamy: 803
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #137 on: March 08, 2011, 10:39:08 am »
0
- "It's the only advantage 2h weapons have over polearms." *Simply not true. 2h weapons have favorable animations which make them significantly longer when swung than a polearm of the same lenght. They have better thrust damage and the speed is about even.

Yes, it is true. 2h weapons may have favorable animations (when it comes to length), but polearms have length 150 weapons too. Or you can go for GLA which is a bit shorter but has a superior swing animation (just like all polearms) and bonus vs shields (with all the shielders out there it's a HUGE plus) and more damage. Yeah, swords have better thrust damage, isn't that kinda the point?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 11:49:56 am by Xant »
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Vibe

  • Vibrator
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2528
  • Infamy: 615
  • cRPG Player Madam White Queen A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #138 on: March 08, 2011, 10:44:28 am »
0
Then why is there tons of people using LHB?

Offline Xant

  • Finnish Pony
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1552
  • Infamy: 803
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #139 on: March 08, 2011, 11:21:47 am »
0
What?
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Vibe

  • Vibrator
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2528
  • Infamy: 615
  • cRPG Player Madam White Queen A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #140 on: March 08, 2011, 11:33:57 am »
0
What?

Sorry, it was not a response to you, but to people complaining about how polearms are weaker than 2h.

Offline chief

  • Beggar
  • Renown: 0
  • Infamy: 0
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #141 on: March 08, 2011, 11:48:14 pm »
0
Yes, it is true. 2h weapons may have favorable animations (when it comes to length), but polearms have length 150 weapons too. Or you can go for GLA which is a bit shorter but has a superior swing animation (just like all polearms) and bonus vs shields (with all the shielders out there it's a HUGE plus) and more damage. Yeah, swords have better thrust damage, isn't that kinda the point?

And these polearms that have 150 length are slower and deal less damage than the shorter polearms. It's balanced, what is your point? "The high damage 2h weapons have extra reach from their animations, but these medium damage polearms make up for that with some extra base reach." You admit the 2h animation has extra reach, but then say that all polearms have better animations than 2h weapons. Care to clarify?


2h vs polearms isn't not the topic of the thread by the way.


Offline Xant

  • Finnish Pony
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1552
  • Infamy: 803
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #142 on: March 09, 2011, 12:25:59 am »
0
And these polearms that have 150 length are slower and deal less damage than the shorter polearms. It's balanced, what is your point? "The high damage 2h weapons have extra reach from their animations, but these medium damage polearms make up for that with some extra base reach." You admit the 2h animation has extra reach, but then say that all polearms have better animations than 2h weapons. Care to clarify?


2h vs polearms isn't not the topic of the thread by the way.

Lol, yes. They're slower and deal less damage. = They're still faster and deal at least as much damage as 2h  :D Why would you even bring the inner balance of polearms to the discussion? It's balanced for /polearms/ yes, but as a whole it's not if 2h stab becomes crap.

38 dmg is medium? Riight, okay? Then all 2h except the Flamburger deal medium damage and your point's moot.

And yeah, polearm animation is better (for slashes) except in length. It doesn't glance as easily and it's faster.

If you can't see why 2h vs polearms fits the topic (even after the explanations given before) then I can't help you.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline chief

  • Beggar
  • Renown: 0
  • Infamy: 0
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #143 on: March 09, 2011, 12:59:46 am »
0
Lol, yes. They're slower and deal less damage. = They're still faster and deal at least as much damage as 2h  :D Why would you even bring the inner balance of polearms to the discussion? It's balanced for /polearms/ yes, but as a whole it's not if 2h stab becomes crap.

38 dmg is medium? Riight, okay? Then all 2h except the Flamburger deal medium damage and your point's moot.

And yeah, polearm animation is better (for slashes) except in length. It doesn't glance as easily and it's faster.

If you can't see why 2h vs polearms fits the topic (even after the explanations given before) then I can't help you.

You can't say polearms have better damage and length. It's not true. Some polearms have better length but less damage, some are longer with less damage. I'm pretty sure there aren't any with massive damage length and speed. That's where the "internal balance" of polearms comes in - your faulty logic - you can't talk about polearms as a whole and compare it to a particuler set of 2h weapons.
 They are pretty balanced.


38 damage is medium, yes, there are high tier weapons with damage in the mid 40s. The long hafted blade (I'm assuming that's the 38 damage you're talking about) is balanced by pathetic thrust damage, and slightly less damge than the high tier 2h swords.

I'm pretty sure you're arguing that close range stabs are essential because they are what balances 2h weapons with polearms? Let's assume this is true. First, both weapon classes have this ability. Second, there are other ways to balance things than a faulty game mechanic.

Lastly, I'm pretty positive that the 2h slashes are less likely to glance at close range. Test it. Stand nose to nose with someone, slash with a longhafter blade, and then try with a Bastard sword. Tell me which (if either) glances. If niether of them glance, that's just another problem. You're taking away the advantage of close range fighting from 1h weapons.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 01:08:04 am by chief »

Offline Xant

  • Finnish Pony
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1552
  • Infamy: 803
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #144 on: March 09, 2011, 01:02:40 am »
0
38 damage is the same as what German greatsword has, not slightly less. Only flamberge has damage in the mid 40s of the 2h swords.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline chief

  • Beggar
  • Renown: 0
  • Infamy: 0
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #145 on: March 09, 2011, 01:03:07 am »
0
38 damage is the same as what German greatsword has, not slightly less. Only flamberge has damage in the mid 40s of the 2h swords.

You think 2h weapons are limited to theGerman Great sword?

What is this?

Sword of War
weight 3
requirement 14
spd rtng 93
weapon length 121
swing damage 40, cut
thrust damage 26 pierce
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode

Nodachi 10589 weight 3.5
requirement 11
spd rtng 92
weapon length 125
swing damage 43, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce
Can't use on horseback

Danish Greatsword 12248 weight 2.5
requirement 14
spd rtng 92
weapon length 124
swing damage 40, cut
thrust damage 27 pierce
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode

War Cleaver 5046 weight 3.5
requirement 13
spd rtng 92
weapon length 120
swing damage 43, cut
thrust damage 0 cut
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced

Great Bardiche 4500 weight 3.25
requirement 15
spd rtng 89
weapon length 116
swing damage 44, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield


I'd say those have a lil bit more than 38.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 02:25:00 am by chief »

Offline Xant

  • Finnish Pony
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1552
  • Infamy: 803
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #146 on: March 09, 2011, 01:13:25 am »
0
The Danish greatsword is the only one from the list that compares to LHB. Nodachi, /maybe/, as the damage's pretty good.. but no thrust and  25 less range than LHB.

I have nothing against LHB.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline chief

  • Beggar
  • Renown: 0
  • Infamy: 0
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #147 on: March 09, 2011, 01:19:01 am »
0
I'm done then, this can only escalate.

-I think 2h/polearm balance is fine.

-Close range stabs with long weapons is just silly IMO..

-Gnight.

Offline Xant

  • Finnish Pony
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1552
  • Infamy: 803
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #148 on: March 09, 2011, 01:19:58 am »
0
I'm done then, this can only escalate.

-I think 2h/polearm balance is fine.

And I never claimed anything to the contrary.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Bjord

  • Amateur heretic
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1328
  • Infamy: 1109
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • salty turks
    • View Profile
Re: Blanket stab nerf needed
« Reply #149 on: March 09, 2011, 11:03:48 pm »
0
-snip-
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 11:05:51 pm by Bjord »
When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back.