I guess this topic would've popped up eventually, sooner or later. So instead of the good old archers spam, now we have throwing weapons (THW later in this topic) spam.
I'm fine with it, at least people advance towards each other nowadays instead of camping for ages, but imo throwing is too OP as it is right now.
No matter what THW it is, it either hurts, or hurts LIKE HELL. Add two simple facts that one can use a shield with THW and/or spam THW and easily switch to a melee weapon when the time comes.
As much as i love throwing (i had 7 PT before the patch), i think for the sake of game balance it needs to be somehow tweaked. The first idea that comes is a little of a damage reduction for all throwing weapons.
I agree. Throwing weapons got an indirect buff from other ranged getting a nerf.I agree with all of this
I do not understand why throwing weapons do so much pierce damage while their polearm counterparts thrust attacks do much less.
My Ideas:
- Add a proper reload animation for throwing weapons. (Taking throwing axes out of the bag, Javelins, Jarid's, e.t.c.)
- Remove the shotgun effect, involve precise timing. (Similar to archery longer you hold down the button the more inaccurate it gets)
- Reduce the damage slightly.
- Increase accuracy significantly
- Increase WPF affect on accuracy significantly
Would love to see throwing become something more of a tactical support role used with smarts, not an arcady point blank shotgun class.
My Ideas:
- Add a proper reload animation for throwing weapons. (Taking throwing axes out of the bag, Javelins, Jarid's, e.t.c.)
- Remove the shotgun effect, involve precise timing. (Similar to archery longer you hold down the button the more inaccurate it gets)
- Reduce the damage slightly.
- Increase accuracy significantly
- Increase WPF affect on accuracy significantly
Would love to see throwing become something more of a tactical support role used with smarts, not an arcady point blank shotgun class.
My Ideas:
- Add a proper reload animation for throwing weapons. (Taking throwing axes out of the bag, Javelins, Jarid's, e.t.c.)
- Remove the shotgun effect, involve precise timing. (Similar to archery longer you hold down the button the more inaccurate it gets)
- Reduce the damage slightly.
- Increase accuracy significantly
- Increase WPF affect on accuracy significantly
Would love to see throwing become something more of a tactical support role used with smarts, not an arcady point blank shotgun class.
How did that happen? I only one-shot people with headshots. I need at least 2-3 to the chest to anyone not in a linen shirt.High PT ? I was one hit killed by gnjus's axe when i used heraldic mail.
I have 5, and I can't imagine anyone having more than 7-8 with the current patch. That's not a really huge difference... dunno.
There are some with 10+, thats where the whining has to be directed, not towards the usual throwers with a balanced build.
That was Damugger, before the patch. He was throwing stones all over the place, it was very accurate, but I don't think he pulled it off with the new system again.
He did it! :shock:
I'd still give damage for accuracy any day.
Each point of PT gives accuracy equivalent to 23 wpf if I'm not mistaken. I have 10 pt and my rocks/daggers are deadly accurate, I can snipe with them, and javs are at least bow accuracy.Did you see the speed on rock ? :shock: it s almost 3 time slower than a arrow try snipping with a ballistic missile it s the same. It's almost impossible to snipe an archer at 20m that is aware because he will see the projectile incoming and have time to dodge.
As for jav being as accurate as bow, you just don t know what you're talking about. A level 3 archer is far far more accurate than a dude with 10PT with 100wpf shooting jav.
10+ PT means 30+ str. That's only possible with very-very low agility -> low WP -> low throwing WPF -> laughable accuracy.
Im a shieldless 2h, buying a shield is not an option. It messes with my awesomeness.
I agree with most that has been said. Throwing is actually one of few things I find imbalanced. It's like a siege xbow melee style with insanely fast reload. What. The. Shit.
I know the aiming reticule is larger, but it's comparable to a bow/xbow while walking and that's easy to pull of in shorter distances as well. If we were gonna go all realistic and stuff - throwing should be probably more accurate, but way less melee-abusable. Right now I feel like it's a melee weapon with the longest reach and way higher damage than the actual polearms.
Made me lol :D But yeah, awesomeness should be respected.
As for accuracy? I think its actually a bit on the high side right now. I say nerf damage on all throwing weapons above war darts (Axes, javalins, etc) by 15-20%, reduce the accuracy of all throwing weapons, reduce the penalty for throwing while moving (meaning more accurate while moving forward,) but increase the projectile speed by around 5. Currently throwing weapons just float through the air at unrealistically slow speeds. If a baseball pitcher can throw a ball at 90-95 miles an hour consistently, a rock should go faster than 30 miles an hour.
Well as a Thrower who has Power Throw 6 I find the above statements a shame, funny at times though.
I carry 8 Axes (not 50 arrows), I have a shield and a broad axe, wear light chain - I rarely get in the top ten and on average kill as many as the times I die. So as an average player I think Throwing is not OP.
As for accuracy? I think its actually a bit on the high side right now. I say nerf damage on all throwing weapons above war darts (Axes, javalins, etc) by 15-20%, reduce the accuracy of all throwing weapons, reduce the penalty for throwing while moving (meaning more accurate while moving forward,) but increase the projectile speed by around 5. Currently throwing weapons just float through the air at unrealistically slow speeds. If a baseball pitcher can throw a ball at 90-95 miles an hour consistently, a rock should go faster than 30 miles an hour.
I can perma stun people with 40-50 armour using throwing knives with 6pt 100wpf :o
The ease of reloading between shots should be decreased but compensated for by an increase in accuracy and a return to pre-patch flight speeds.
High PT ? I was one hit killed by gnjus's axe when i used heraldic mail.
I can perma stun people with 40-50 armour using throwing knives with 6pt 100wpf :o
The ease of reloading between shots should be decreased but compensated for by an increase in accuracy and a return to pre-patch flight speeds.
Well, sir, while I fully respect your opinion, there's even throwers in this thread that suggest some nerfing changes.
For information below is a comparison of accuracy between a dedicated thrower with 10pt and 105 wpf and a dedicated bowman with 6PD and 8wm all wpf into archery.
Well let me put it like this:
I often end up in the top 10 on the score board but pretty much never hit the first place ever although i would count myself to the better throwing players.
Throwing as it is right now requires good judgment of the shot speed especially on axes and a portion of luck as the throws still are really random.
People who run straight at a thrower with their shields up and keep going after their shield explodes are just stupid... same for jumpers except when they are really close.
There are quite a few people who know how to evade throws which are almost impossible to hit for me.
I see how people can get frustrated about throwing but then again it's the same with 2h spamming, shields, archers, crossbows and cav...
I still think making throwing accuracy dependent on WPF will reduce the amount of throwers without hitting dedicated throwers too hard while and it will also slightly nerf the damage as some agi will be required for Weapon Master.
The big problem right now really is the flood of throwers if you take a look at the ground you see as much throwing stuff as arrows and bolts which sure is bad for everyone without a decent shield.
You've just been Tomahawked.
Yesterday i got onehitted 2-3 times with no headshot by a thrower called Franciska_Lance or something like that.
Now you could say: 1 hits and throwing that is nothing special it happens very often.
But i am a 21 STR Build (ok no IF) and had a complete Gothic Plate (Plate-Foots, Sugarloaf, Plate Mittens, Gothic Plate)
How the hell is this throwingbitch able to oneshot a fullplate????
PS: Dont take that "throwingbitch" to serious but thats the correct name to them after patch in our teamspeak ;)
One of my characters is a Hybrid 10PT and 10 PS, 2 hand / thrower and I average 3-4 kills a round with throwing axes, and I Mostly just use the throwing axes I start out with.
At first I chose them to get some range against archers and runners because I'm mega slow and never catch up to them with my great axe, also they are excellent against cav, I can guaranty you no sane cavalry man will get close to you if he sees you with throwing axes :) , after a little time it became obvious I could kill anything with them, even plate with 2, max 3 hits.
I find it extremely easy to get kills, lots of them 1 hit kills even with the 70ish in WPF, true I'm full strength but still It seems rather easy just spamming some axes and getting kills.
I gave RomoR a rest because I got tired grinding to 31 (half way there) and am now playing my alt RimiR, a Shield and pike and have noticed a increase in throwers, its evident people know how dangerous a high power thrower player can be and at the same time having good survivability with a shield or even just keeping your distance while spamming stuff so I can see it getting worse, and the more throwers the more ammunition they have to pick up from the ground.
A simple solution would be to make it impossible to pick up a thrown weapon, (if its possible at all) this would limit the throwers to there starting equipment, it would still be a viable option against archers or cavalry but at the same time bring down the hail of stuff being thrown.
Edited for some clarity.
Yesterday i got onehitted 2-3 times with no headshot by a thrower called Franciska_Lance or something like that.
Now you could say: 1 hits and throwing that is nothing special it happens very often.
But i am a 21 STR Build (ok no IF) and had a complete Gothic Plate (Plate-Foots, Sugarloaf, Plate Mittens, Gothic Plate)
How the hell is this throwingbitch able to oneshot a fullplate????
PS: Dont take that "throwingbitch" to serious but thats the correct name to them after patch in our teamspeak ;)
it's like requesting to nerf all melee weapons and make them do half damage...it would make the game freaking boring.
i play this game because people die after one or two good hits. no need to nerf everything into the ground untill it feels like an arcade beat em up...
most people miss the point that they are not supposed to run up to ranged toons in a straight line with a chambered overhead...
When was the last time you were dead/spectating in a match, and it was a thrown weapon guy who was the final holdout? It never happens.
2. Soften the wpf capping a little
Gold increase.
If upkeep wasn't as cheap as it is now (overall), then not everyone would take throwing, or good throwing weapons, consistently.
The problem right now is that many can be in their equipment of choice the entire time, and not be concerned with upkeep.
There's nothing wrong IMO with stack size. People who invest in throw should have fun throwing. Also, damage is okayish, and usually only a problem with those who focus on throwing (unfortunately too many now). A slight reduction would do, but perhaps very slight. Throwing should not be only good with those who have 12 in PT.
So overall, I think best solution would be to simply increase the cost.
It just brings us back the problems which led to the wpf cap being there, without making it somehow more or less economical to build a hybrid. As long as throwing rapes as it does now, people will grab it. It doesn't even matter how accurate or inaccurate it is, because one shot will kill lightly armoured/no IF people and two kill most if not all players. Spam it at a crowd and you'll score some kills, and even with its shit acc you can always oneshot a horse with it.
The problem is partially that throwing is too damn effective in itself*, and partially that ranged (bar crossbows) is fairly cheap to upkeep, so taking throwing somethings doesn't really bust your budget. 3 packs of heavy throwing axes are 15K. That isn't really a lot to maintain, and gives you a hell of a lot of punching power. Hell, 3 packs of javelins are even more economical and quite deadly as well.
*and you can spam projectiles like there's no tommorow.
Again - im not a primary thrower, 1h wpf is at 125 and throwing is 115. With fat plate it decreases to about 60. I wear 2 stacks of heavy throwing axes and i rarely 1shot anyone (well horses about 40%, those without armor ofc, but people around 25% mostly peasants and not even headshots get the job done).
I agree with Thomek here, the biggest problem is 1h+ throwing hybrids with shields who constantly backpedal. Something should be done with throwing, everyone and his mom/dad/goldfish has throwing nowadays and it is not even close to the word " balanced " . I've started this topic some time ago, but now things are getting even worse and so far there is no end to it.Some decent suggestions people have here, what do you think about my first one ? Hate to quote myself =).
I see three solutions :
- drastic decrease of the "reload speed" of throwing weapons . Backpedalling won't be as annoying and deadly. *My personal favorite*
- significant decrease in the amount of profectiles per stack
- moderate damage reduction. Although i believe this won't solve the problem now anyway, throwing is still too good to not have it
Some decent suggestions people have here, what do you think about my first one ? Hate to quote myself =).
I think it's a great solution, but it would require that someone makes the reloading animations.I was talking about the delay between throws, at the moment it's very, very short, with some throwing weapons (like daggers) you can even stunlock people. . From what i understand, the "spd rtng" stat on throwing weapons is responsible for this. I'm not sure if it can be changed manually though.
And don't even make me count how many times my horse (heavy sarranid) has been 1hit by throwing weapons of all sorts.that's because you run straight at the thrower, if you take a jarrid from the side the horse need more than one to go down.
Well duh, it depends on who the thrower is.So somebody that sacrificed speed should not get a trade off ?
that's because you run straight at the thrower, if you take a jarrid from the side the horse need more than one to go down.Excuse me , but with so much shit flying around you can never predict when or where you will get hit. Of course i don't run straight into throwers , but that doesn't help since almost everyone has throwing weapons.
You don't run straight into pike do you ? :wink:
If you gamble sometime you loose.
So somebody that sacrificed speed should not get a trade off ?
When i face a two hander with this alt i can't even strike back because i get massively oupsammed but still a lot of two hander instead of running toward me for a easy kill turn they back on me.
hitting somebody that is zigzagging is all about luck or reading into the future, at the speed the projectile are going, it is very hard.
When i face a two hander with this alt i can't even strike back because i get massively oupsammed but still a lot of two hander instead of running toward me for a easy kill turn they back on me.
I used gothic plate for 1 day and once got killed by 1 (one) throwing axe in the chest. Usually it took 2-3.
In my medium armor (46 ba) i easily get onehit by jarids, two hit by throwing axes and all sorts of other crap flying around. If a throwing weapon is less powerfull (shurikens, daggers) , than it's fast as fuck and can stunlock you anyway. And don't even make me count how many times my horse (heavy sarranid) has been 1hit by throwing weapons of all sorts.
There are 2 ways to fix throwing in my opinion:
1) Make PT decrease accuracy, so throwers actually need WPF if they want to hit anything, no more 10+ PT who 1shot everything with 1 WPF (pretty much like archery).
*Only if the base accuracy of throwing weapons is vastly increased. Not sure if you've ever used them, but the reticule on heavy throwing axes and up with just the required PT to use them is just HUGE. Making PT decrease accuracy even more, the reticule wouldn't even fit my screen.*
2) Give throwers a new animation to decrease their crazy rate of fire, so they don't pull axes out of their ass with machinegun speed anymore.
*Euhm.. how? If I start throwing heavy battle axes at an incomming 2h as soon as he gets in range (the range at which I can actually try to aim at him instead of randomly tossing them), I can throw 2-3 axes MAX before the 2h closes the distance and insta kills me. Since he's most likely aware I'm throwing stuff at him, he can dodge, making my chances to hit him very slim. If he has the cheapest board shield, he can catch 2 axes without taking any damage at all.*
And add an accuracy penalty for throwing with shield.
*agreed*
Nice suggestions. We could just remove all throwing weapons but rocks/knives and stuff and be done with it. Saves the devs a lot of work and it accomplishes the same.Indeed.
There are 2 ways to fix throwing in my opinion:
1) Make PT decrease accuracy, so throwers actually need WPF if they want to hit anything, no more 10+ PT who 1shot everything with 1 WPF (pretty much like archery).
2) Give throwers a new animation to decrease their crazy rate of fire, so they don't pull axes out of their ass with machinegun speed anymore.
And add an accuracy penalty for throwing with shield.
How shield hamper throwing using one hand :shock:
*Easy. Look at a pitcher as an example. When he throws full force, he moves his entire body, not just his throwing arm. It's a matter of biomechanics. Now, strap a big, heavy and clumsy shield to his other arm and he will be severely hampered in his throwing speed and accuracy.*
But yeah, new animation, that have long recovery time (you can't throw but you can shield yourself) would help balancing it out. Throwing need to be able to throw fast their first projectile, then slow down. It would solve the problem of machineguns.
*Only for hybrids using a shield maybe. Slowing down pure throwers even more completely kills the class and demotes throwing to a secondary skill.*
Pure throwing is fine as it is imo. High damage, low accuracy, randomness, throwing weapons not registering hits/disappearing when thrown. And not to mention VERY slow. The shotgun effect is all they have. When they miss, they usually die.
People should try do a thrower before saying if it's OP or not seriously.Or maybe recieve 300 throwing weapons in the face during one day, while trying to dodge another 300 000.And while you're at it, you don't need to tell people to roll throwers , they are already on it without your kind advices . =)
Or maybe recieve 300 throwing weapons in the face during one day, while trying to dodge another 300 000.this! i cant go one round with out some throwing weapon in my body, and if they are a pure str build well then im most likely dead....
Throwing is overpowered and if it get's changed , deal with it guys. Don't you remember those good old days when you used to kill enemies with melee weapons ?
The most obvious evidence though is now suddenly after the patch half the people playing any given map are hybrid throwers. There is actually more ranged in most fights then there was pre-patch and part of that is the effectiveness of throwing weapons.
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Funny. With 10 PT I don't 1 shot kill people with wardarts and I can't even kill a courser in 1 hit with a throwing lance without the speedbonus. I don't have longer range than bows and their accuracy still surpasses mine in mid-long ranges.
Anyway, to fix your issue Keshian, we could do the right thing and nerf HYBRIDS.
I agree hybrids are too powerfull. It's rather easy to trade IF for throwing and you're good to go.
Anyone with a polearmbuild can just swap IF for PT and start carrying jarids. They could even use them in melee somewhat effective.
as a thrower myself I do not find it over powered.
What every thrower says :D
Aim for groups of people with spears get lucky hits.
higher reload speed and only movingforward throwing would be unrealistic. I think bonuses from Power throw, Powers Strike and Power Draw should be decreased to 5% per skill point. And increasing WPF should be very hard after 100.
BTW pure throwers never take top positions in player list.
As Gorath said, the high-end throwing weapons are the issue: they're over powered and absolutly ridiculous. I mean c'mon... throwing LANCES? We all know how much damage those things do, and how ridiculous it is to see somebody with throwing lances beat a 2h/polearm person in close quarters fighting. The lancer simply backpeddles and throws while the 2hander dies, because he can't close with the lance-chucker without going relatively straight and in so doing becomes an easy target.
My bitching, however, is from the perspective of a cavalry player. Yes I know, "Cavalry people should be sneaky and if you're hit by a throwing weapon and die it's your fault." and I call bull shit. My courser is so easily killed by throwers it's simply ridiculous. I have almost no chance of closing with a thrower, because said thrower is relatively alert. Said thrower can easily kill my horse in one or two hits (if he's using high-tier throwing weapons).
Unless people expect horses to have built-in invisibility projectors, cavalry have little option when confronting a half a team of hybrid throwers but to die or hide until the throwers are dead or have lost their ammo.
And so, think of the horsies when considering the OP nature of high-tier throwing weapons. As Gorath said, throwing weapons should fulfill a support role (like xbows). They should certainly not be capable of inflicting as much damage as if they were almighty Zuess's thunderbolts smiting my horse upon it's rump.
They do. I've seen at lest two, one of them was templar guy with 13 PT.
My only grudge is that throwing in full str does too much damage, heck, it does even more damage than a full str melee character.
Currently on a 40 man server, there will be 20 dedicated throwers, and another 10-15 melee toons who are throwing as well.
As soon as your in range your being hit with 10 random throwing items and can do nothing but turtle.
Why the change? You have to think about that.
Which is probably the reason why people are bothered with throwers
Exaggerating a bit are we? :)
You're forgetting one were important thing: wpf change. Hybrids are now much better than they were.
Come play on NA server, Im not making any exaggeration when I tell you that nearly all players who are not an archer/xbow have atleast 1 stack of throwing.r?
top are filling ppl that are most skilled, regardless to their class
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he breaks my shield before i can get within a few feet
Not true either, so again no room for discussion i guess :(
I think that throwing weapons should act as a natural supplement to an infantryman's arsenal. They should serve as a way for players to defend against other ranged units and charging cavalry, as well as to soften up enemy infantry forces prior to engaging them in melee combat. However many thrown weapons are currently innacurate, and simply exist as a form of projectile spam which, when it lands, causes rage-inducing one/two hit kills.
I think a good solution to this problem is to slightly decrease the damage dealt by throwing weapons, in particular the high-tier (jarid, lance, heavy ax) weapons. I also think that there should be more time inbetween shots, ie: slower chamber speed. I also think that the accuracy of an immobile thrower should be significantly increased.
Optimally, I would like to see any infantryman who is not a dedicated thrower enter battle with two or three throwing javelins/lances/axes/whatever at most. This would force said non-dedicated thrower to conservatively use their ammunition instead of spamming them as they do now. It will actually be possible for them to conservatively and intelligently use their thrown weapons because they will have increased accuracy. Spam would be reduced. There would be a smaller number of SHIT flying through the air hitting random people. Cavalry would be able to participate in the battle more, instead of hiding, because infantry will have to make a conscious decision as to whether they wish to save their thrown weapons, or potentially waste them on cavalry.
In other words, I propose we make thrown weapons something that almost any infantry dude can effectively use, but which requires some critical thinking. Do I throw one of three of my axes at that archer who's not looking at me right now? Or should I save it for a situation when I might REALLY need it, like when a horse is charging at my face? Should I throw both of my javelines now, at the begning of the fight, or should I save them for the end of the round when we're chasing down that one, naked delaying guy/bitch? Can I even hit that HA with my throwing-lance-of-doom, or should I wait until he gets closer?
And by increasing accuracy, throwers will actually be able to make these decisions with good heart, because they'll be sure they can actually hit what they're throwing at.
For those dedicated throwers, I think thrown weapons should be a bit cheaper. If they would only be getting 2-3 shots per slot, then they shouldn't have to pay as much as they do now. Nobody shouldn't be able to play the way they want, if that way is fair to other players.
tl;dr: More accuracy, so throwers can actually aim. Less ammo and more time between throws, so throwers won't spam. Less damage, so throwers won't cause rage with so many 1 shot kills. Appropriatly cheaper thrown weapons, so dedicated throwers won't be paying for 4 darts when they'll only have two per slot. Or three per slot. Someone else come up with the number, I don't throw much.
Yeah something is amiss. Today I was one shotted by darkling_3 with throwing knives. I wear mail hauberk, mail mitten, mail chausses and bascinet with aventail.
I think that throwing weapons should act as a natural supplement to an infantryman's arsenal. They should serve as a way for players to defend against other ranged units and charging cavalry, as well as to soften up enemy infantry forces prior to engaging them in melee combat. However many thrown weapons are currently innacurate, and simply exist as a form of projectile spam which, when it lands, causes rage-inducing one/two hit kills.
I think a good solution to this problem is to slightly decrease the damage dealt by throwing weapons, in particular the high-tier (jarid, lance, heavy ax) weapons. I also think that there should be more time inbetween shots, ie: slower chamber speed. I also think that the accuracy of an immobile thrower should be significantly increased.
Optimally, I would like to see any infantryman who is not a dedicated thrower enter battle with two or three throwing javelins/lances/axes/whatever at most. This would force said non-dedicated thrower to conservatively use their ammunition instead of spamming them as they do now. It will actually be possible for them to conservatively and intelligently use their thrown weapons because they will have increased accuracy. Spam would be reduced. There would be a smaller number of SHIT flying through the air hitting random people. Cavalry would be able to participate in the battle more, instead of hiding, because infantry will have to make a conscious decision as to whether they wish to save their thrown weapons, or potentially waste them on cavalry.
In other words, I propose we make thrown weapons something that almost any infantry dude can effectively use, but which requires some critical thinking. Do I throw one of three of my axes at that archer who's not looking at me right now? Or should I save it for a situation when I might REALLY need it, like when a horse is charging at my face? Should I throw both of my javelines now, at the begning of the fight, or should I save them for the end of the round when we're chasing down that one, naked delaying guy/bitch? Can I even hit that HA with my throwing-lance-of-doom, or should I wait until he gets closer?
And by increasing accuracy, throwers will actually be able to make these decisions with good heart, because they'll be sure they can actually hit what they're throwing at.
For those dedicated throwers, I think thrown weapons should be a bit cheaper. If they would only be getting 2-3 shots per slot, then they shouldn't have to pay as much as they do now. Nobody shouldn't be able to play the way they want, if that way is fair to other players.
tl;dr: More accuracy, so throwers can actually aim. Less ammo and more time between throws, so throwers won't spam. Less damage, so throwers won't cause rage with so many 1 shot kills. Appropriatly cheaper thrown weapons, so dedicated throwers won't be paying for 4 darts when they'll only have two per slot. Or three per slot. Someone else come up with the number, I don't throw much.
Throwing should be short ranged - high damage.
Consider this:
Increasing the wpf needed to be accurate with throwing weapons will force me to go from a 11PT/3 agility build to a 7 PT/15 agility build. With light armour (I have that now) and 5 athletics. Now I can suddenly get close to hit people and move out before I get surrounded. Something I can't do with 1 athletics.
For me it wouldn't change much, as it would require me just 1 additional hit to kill people with my throwing weapon of choice. I would just get a lot faster on my feet and my throwing animation would be a lot faster (higher wpf and agility).
Bullshit, you cannot oneshot armored characters with melee, if you talk about peasants they get oneshot by almost everything. Not a strong argument...
I'll try to make it clearer :
1) damage is excessive, and not in line with other weapons
*Takes at least 2 hits to kill someone, the same as any higher tier poleaxe or big sword from someone in a melee build. I have range and limited ammo, they can do it until they die. Seems a fair.*
2) requirements are low, especially the wpf requirement to get decent accuracy is too low
*It takes skillpoints. A crossbow has low requirements. On top of that, there is no such thing as decent accuracy on the throwing weapons you're referring too. (Heavy axes and up)*
3) power throw giving both accuracy and damage is just WRONG and there's no reason it should work that way
*Well, if you prefer people with 3 less PT but with 5-6 more athletics, more WM and higher wpf, it should get changed. Currently, high PT means high damage and piss poor speed in both movement and melee combat.*
Throwing damge is fine - it's power throw and the amount of throwing weapons which are overpowered.
- Power throw should not increase accuracy
- If you can melee with a weapon it should take one weapon slot. So no more 16 Jarids on one person but 4. You have a chance to one shot people 4 times - I think that's enough. You can pick up throwing weapons or a melee weapon afterwards. Or just take throwing daggers which hurt a lot with decent PT
Spawny, throwers can oneshot people, i'm not talking about headshots, the damage is excessive. You even can see some low/mid level throwers, who just created the char, taking half the hp off a level 31 full str character in plate. If they were 2handers, 1handers, pole or archers, they would not even take 20% hp. Really unbalanced.
The need to put more on wpf is to make a tradeoff between power throw and wpf. You can get wpf for accuracy and put less on pt, then damage will be reduced (on top on a much needed damage nerf). If you want both, make a specialized thrower. A hybrid thrower will be either lacking damage or accuracy.
Arrows should take up a slot per arrow too. That leaves an archer with 3 chances to headshot kill a guy over long range. I think that's more than enough. You can pick up arrows from others or melee weapons afterwards.
Well you can't melee with an arrow, can you?
You can't melee with a war dart either silly.
Oh, you thought that lolpoke was actually useful on it? No, it's just for giggles.
Strength 39
Agility 3
One Handed 1 [1 WPF cost]
Two Handed 42 [1 WPF cost]
Polearm 4 [1 WPF cost]
Archery 1 [1 WPF cost]
Crossbow 1 [1 WPF cost]
Throwing 103 [5 WPF cost]
Ironflesh 0
Power Strike 3
Shield 0
Athletics 1
Riding 0
Horse Archery 0
Power Draw 0
Power Throw 13
Weapon master * 0
Its a pure Siege build . I can onshot Naked and low armored chars with ONE freaking Dagger but my Agi/Athletics uhhh.. :lol:. Iam a easy kill for players with huscarl or board shields.
I do not one-hit most people. Only archers/peasants/melee's thinking they're awesome in their robes. Most people I hit with full health have a bit left, if they got hit by someone/something else allready they usually die.
blah blah blah...
-I'm close to 100 WPF in throwing, and that shit's still not very accurate.
I was playing around yesterday with my thrower and everytime I got killed by a 2h/polearms/cav guy or combination of that it was a 1 hit kill. There has to be something wrong with that.
Also, when I picked up a 2h sword I could do the same with just 1 wpf in 2h. Even better yet, I never ran out of swings! When I was attacked, all I had to do was block. Didn't even have to pray the X button worked the first time I pressed it or that my last throw passed through my enemy.
Do you expect anyone to take you seriously with these posts?
You have 33 STR and 5 Ironflesh, in total you have 78 HP which is a LOT higher than 90%(made up statistic for the win!) of the players. (For reference: a common 18-18 build with 6 IF will have 65 HP)
You have 11 PS which is almost *double* the power strike a common 18-18 build would have. I do not see how it is surprising that you are able to one hit people.
You missed the fact I got 1 hit killed all the time too.Even naked it is very unlikely for you to be one hit as you have 78 HP. With decent armor you can easily survive a lot of hits. Before the patch I was level 44 with 36 STR and no IF and I could still a hell of a beating with Transitional.
I just get a bit tired of people complaining how OP throwing is when you can do a lot better (k/d wise) with a 1h/shield or 2h/polearm or cavalry build.Disagree, throwing allows you to get a very high kill death ratio when used as a secondary weapon. Pre patch I had a KD ratio of over 4.0 and most of my kills were from my throwing weapons. Using KD to check whether a weapon is OP or UP is not an optimal way to do it. Usage rate of a particular weapon type or even weapon is slightly better as it allows you to see what the current FOTM is.
And it's really not the higher tier throwing weapons that make throwing OP, it's the lower tier.Disagree, lances are still broken and were broken before the patch, being able to one hit kill most players wearing high tier armor is not fair, unless it is a head shot. It is possible to carry 9 lances (heirloomed) and a melee weapon. I consider Jarids to be high tier too as they are very deadly at 40p base.
Heavy throwing axes are PT4 (yes, just 4) and javelins are PT 3. Besides those 2, I use the darts and sometimes rocks for the lolfactor.Throwing weapons scale too well with higher PT due to their high base damage. This is not a problem in Native as PT is limited but on cRPG you can stack PT which can be a problem (stacking other skills is also problematic but I believe PT takes the crown).
Heavy throwing axes are still a bit crappy when it comes to accuracy, but you can arc those things really well. When I'm on an even level with a few teammates running towards an enemy, I can curve the damn things over my teammates into the enemy (or his shield). On top of that, they deal quite a lot of damage, so when I manage to hit someone (randomfactor), it hurts.If you are able to properly arc an axe you deserve the kill (damage could be adjusted a bit, though). In my opinion, all piercing throwing weapons damage should be adjusted in order to match the new damage values of crossbows and bows. War Darts do not need a nerf nor a buff, they are sadly underused for what they offer.
The javelins are very good. They actually go in the direction you throw them. They do pretty good pierce damage and 2 are usually enough to kill most players.
The darts are archer killers. Just 2 or 3 needed per archer, good range, fast and very accurate.
Nerf jarids/spears/lances and maybe heavy axes, but it would be better to alter the way throwing works.It is impossible to alter the mechanics on how throwing works so the only solution is to nerf the weapons themselves.
Why not make PT just a requirement and have it do nothing else (could be hardcoded though). WPF should be used for both accuracy and damage.
The same should be done for melee weapons. No strength requirement, just a PS requirement. The highest tier swords needing 6 or 7 PS. This eliminates high agility spammers with high damage weapons AND it prevents almost all archers from pulling out a greatsword for melee.
hybrids in general, need nerf.
hybrids in general, need nerf.
pure characters need a buff. :3
Hybrids don't need a nerf, pure characters need a buff. :3
And it's true. You don't lose much by going hybrid.
No, the increased wpf costs are here precisely because people were getting silly wpf.
Don't nerf hybrids were the cooliest in dah whole world :shock:
Also. Nack Nack a tick tack in the back back of yo sack sack while you pack pack your mack attack
Im a little high right now^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ just explain the above :D :twisted: :rolleyes: :lol: 8-) :mrgreen: :shock: :o :o
So? Should you not get higher WPF in return for not investing into other skills? Maybe the old ones were too high, but a slight buff wouldn't hurt.
No, the increased wpf costs are here precisely because people were getting silly wpf.
Now as a pure you have more gold (to pay for upkeep for better stuff), somewhat more wpf, and in most cases more skill points as well. Don't make it sound like all that is nothing.
Tbh, throwing isn't a problem about hybrids, but about throwing itself. I don't mind melee characters having something to throw before the melee and at runners/etc. However the excessive damage of high-tier throwables compared with the fact you can spam them quite damn well, does.
I don't think we should judge hybrids based on people who took throwing because it's the "in" thing to do due to its effectiveness. The whole wpf thing is moot, you might as well have 0 wpf in throwing and do just fine.