Throwing weapons (need balancing )

[Belmont]

In my opinion, the best way to fix throwing while keeping the same damage is to reduce drastically the speed rating on the throwing weapons, making the "reload" animation longer. Another fix could be to force throwers to move forward while they ready their weapons, eliminating backpedaling throwers.

[WSC_Sorokopud]

higher reload speed and only movingforward throwing would be unrealistic. I think bonuses from Power throw, Powers Strike and Power Draw should be decreased to 5% per skill point. And increasing WPF should be very hard after 100.

BTW pure throwers never take top positions in player list.

[UrLukur]

higher reload speed and only movingforward throwing would be unrealistic. I think bonuses from Power throw, Powers Strike and Power Draw should be decreased to 5% per skill point. And increasing WPF should be very hard after 100.

BTW pure throwers never take top positions in player list.

Hardcoded, impossible. WPF increase is quite hard after 100. Level cap 25 would make it harder.

They do. I've seen at lest two, one of them was templar guy with 13 PT.

[Spawny]

As Gorath said, the high-end throwing weapons are the issue: they're over powered and absolutly ridiculous. I mean c'mon... throwing LANCES? We all know how much damage those things do, and how ridiculous it is to see somebody with throwing lances beat a 2h/polearm person in close quarters fighting. The lancer simply backpeddles and throws while the 2hander dies, because he can't close with the lance-chucker without going relatively straight and in so doing becomes an easy target.

My bitching, however, is from the perspective of a cavalry player. Yes I know, "Cavalry people should be sneaky and if you're hit by a throwing weapon and die it's your fault." and I call bull shit. My courser is so easily killed by throwers it's simply ridiculous. I have almost no chance of closing with a thrower, because said thrower is relatively alert. Said thrower can easily kill my horse in one or two hits (if he's using high-tier throwing weapons).

Unless people expect horses to have built-in invisibility projectors, cavalry have little option when confronting a half a team of hybrid throwers but to die or hide until the throwers are dead or have lost their ammo.

And so, think of the horsies when considering the OP nature of high-tier throwing weapons. As Gorath said, throwing weapons should fulfill a support role (like xbows). They should certainly not be capable of inflicting as much damage as if they were almighty Zuess's thunderbolts smiting my horse upon it's rump.

I agree about the lances. They're just dumb. BUT, if you're closing in on a lance thrower while zigzagging/moving in weird patterns, getting hit is more of a luck thing on the throwers side. I've been doing it with other templars and the only one I could kill most of the time were the low athletics guys.
Anyone with 5 or higher athletics is really hard to hit and when they're close enough for melee, I die.

About the horsies: We're supposed to kill horsies. Be glad I can't use my 1-2 combo anymore due to the upkeep. (1 - throw a lance at the last second at an incomming horsie and it dies, 2 - toss lance at downed cav who's right next to you on the floor). Now I have to do it with heavy throwing axes, but most of the time the horsie or the cav guy don't  die when hit and it either means I get lanced from horseback or killed in melee by the downed cav guy.

[Spawny]

They do. I've seen at lest two, one of them was templar guy with 13 PT.

Dastikka is currently on his 6th or 7th gen thrower and has played a thrower since the launch on M&B.
His throwing weapons of choice: Regular darts, snowflakes and rocks.
It's no surprise he can play his class well.

On top of that, it's only occasional when he tops the scoreboard.
Just like I occasionally top the score board on my thrower, he just does it more frequently.

[Magikarp]

My only grudge is that throwing in full str does too much damage, heck, it does even more damage than a full str melee character.

[Leiknir]

My only grudge is that throwing in full str does too much damage, heck, it does even more damage than a full str melee character.

Change PT to 3str/3agi requierment. If you want more than 6pt, you have to convert lots of statspoint, fucking you over at other places. This way you can get 6pt max, and we are back to what throwing really is. A skirmisher. Not full str artillery.
No other changes needed, as throwing is not really imba, it is just overused as people have free slots and just fill them up. Or just switch back to v200 upkeep/income, this would solve all problems

[Warcat]

I don't know about the other weapons, I don't use them. But don't drastically change stones or lances, they're balanced as they are now.
Lances-
1. They're slow to reload(and easy to dodge if you've got athletics)
2. They're very inaccurate. (Have to get nearly in flamberge range to effectively aim. Outside of that is luck.)
3. You only get 2 per stack (which means their overall killing potential is far less than any melee weapon)
4. They cost 547 for each repair. That means wearing almost nothing else that has upkeep(heirloomed robe is 0g. Leather cap is 2g) I still rarely make any money, and generally lose a little with only 2 sets equipped.
5. Good plate armor with some ironflesh still survives them

Stones-
They're a little bit underpowered, headshots should have a chance to knock people over, but a part from that, they're perfect.

I think the main throwing change needed is higher requirements for axes and other weapons so that less melee player carry them in their extra slots.

[Tai Feng]

OK after further tests I'd say that:

* There's a need for very slight reduction in damage (I don't like balancing which makes overused things useless). I can't give feedback on the cost.
* Remove from the game silly weapons such as Throwing Lances.


Other than that, I'd say throwing weapons are more or less fine.

[Xant]

Allow them to be thrown only when standing still. >=D

[DrKronic]

The best thing that could happen is make wpf for throwing similar to how's bows work

So 1 wpf equals huge accuracy and damage penalty

150 wpf equals what we get now

Done you'd see alot less "0 wpf hybrids" which now basically everyone is

Oh and george Washington is a pure thrower and he can definitely get top kills

Just make wpf actually govern the reticule heavily=fixed

[Rendar1970]

Its a pretty well known trend in gaming that whatever is the most powerfull is the most used.

A few patches ago, on a server with 40 people, you might have seen 3-4 throwers. 

Currently on a 40 man server, there will be 20 dedicated throwers, and another 10-15 melee toons who are throwing as well.

Why the change? You have to think about that.

Right now this game feels like im playing a mix between Counterstrike in chainmail, and the arrow barrage scene from 300.  I can barely tell when im playing on maps with rain, cause theres so much crap in the air it all looks the same.

Solution? I dont have one, for me I just dont play when the server gets more than 25 people, cause theres no point.  As soon as your in range your being hit with 10 random throwing items and can do nothing but turtle.

And with horses already dying so easy to everything else, you cant even ride near the enemy for more than 2 seconds without losing your mount.

[Memento_Mori]

Give Throwers less ammo
nerf nothing else
-1 to all things past axes or daggars
That way if there's 100 throwers on the server you effectively eliminate 100 higher tier throwing weapons.
just an idea, I just made a thrower today & it's lots of fun being able to throw stuff before charging, I barely ever hit & when I do it usually just wounds them & then shortly after I die.
I'm not pure thrower.
just an idea
-1 ammo wont effect one thrower but the server will have a lot less higher tier throwing weapons to deal with.

[Tai Feng]

Currently on a 40 man server, there will be 20 dedicated throwers, and another 10-15 melee toons who are throwing as well.

Exaggerating a bit are we?

As soon as your in range your being hit with 10 random throwing items and can do nothing but turtle.

If you expect to stand in the middle of the front line in the beginning of the battle without a shield then - yes, you'll die. That's the point. Throwing is a weapon like any other. While it does need a very slight damage reduction, most people die to throwing because they don't play properly.

I play without a shield right now and die to throwing no more often than to other weapons. I have no problem playing without a shield because I use tactics and don't charger like a madman. If throwing bothers you that much you should watch good 2H duelists and see how it is that they manage to have so many kills.


Most people who have problem with throwing have it because they think that just because they are good at dueling they should kill everyone, and non duel weapons are dishonorable. Well, we have bows, xbows and throwing. And cavalry backstabbing. And it's all part of the game.

Why the change? You have to think about that.

You're forgetting one were important thing: wpf change. Hybrids are now much better than they were. Many who before were not hybrids now are. This is a good thing and makes the game more fun for many, since they can play in various ways and not just always the same thing.

So now that hybrids are better, what do you think infantry will do?

a) Invest in another melee weapon? I've seen Urist promote this, but I still don't see much point in it right now.
b) Invest in xbow? Rarely a decent option, considering how even dedicated xbowmen are on average bad and can barely get any kills.
c) Invest in bow? You're not going to spam arrows if you're primarily infantry.
d) Throwing. Which can be done on the move, which can fill the remaining slots fully, be it 1 or 2 or three of free slots.


The fact is that throwing is natural addition of infantry arsenal. There's nothing wrong with infantrymen using throwing (as long as it's balanced of course).

[Murchad]

I think they need to take a hit like every other class.
I would personally like throwing to be not viable as a primary class but very useful as a secondary skill
some ways you could do it are

1. make damage lower (i vote no but remove throwing lances from game)
2. make stack size smaller (yes see below)
3. reduce accuracy ( no )
4. increase cost ( no, i vote decrease )
5. make wp in throwing more crucial. eg. throwing skill is dmg and wp is accuracy ( I say no because throwing should be able to be used as secondary skill)

my personal preferance would be to make the stack size much smaller and make the throwing weapons more accurate but with more dropoff so they aren't as useful at long range ( i mean comeon these guys are throwing the spears 5x as far as olympic athletes.)  i think one hitting people should be possible for people who want to sink alot of points into PT but the decreased stack size will decrease the ranged spam.