Throwing weapons (need balancing )

[Motorsheep]

I suck at Warband (137 to 432 k/d ratio on my main char), and when I made a thrower this past weekend I was suddenly killing people left and right with my throwing axes before I was even level 15.

I hate to admit it, but something's got to be wrong with that.

[Spawny]

I was playing around yesterday with my thrower and everytime I got killed by a 2h/polearms/cav guy or combination of that it was a 1 hit kill. There has to be something wrong with that.

Also, when I picked up a 2h sword I could do the same with just 1 wpf in 2h. Even better yet, I never ran out of swings! When I was attacked, all I had to do was block. Didn't even have to pray the X button worked the first time I pressed it or that my last throw passed through my enemy.

[Dark207]

blah blah blah...
-I'm close to 100 WPF in throwing, and that shit's still not very accurate.

You need lots of powerthrow to be accurate, My thrower has 10 powerthrow and with knives is spot on accurate 100% of the time, the only times I miss is when people are dodging or the trajectory curves downwards too much (I suck calculating shit like that)


On that note, throwing is god damn OP. I use knives yet I still own people, I can't imagine what hell I'd unleash if I bought axes, lances don't work well in moving so it's not often I use them, but half the time I somehow manage to get them over board shields and into people's heads - something is damn wrong there!

[Xant]

It's fucking annoying how once you've managed to reach a thrower by dodging like a chimpanzee on speed and manage to slash/thrust the thrower once, they can just backpedal some more and get another throw in and then they can jump and get yet another throw in... and no way are you surviving several axes from point blank range, and they can't miss either.

[Shigeru]

I definitely think throwing does not need another nerf, for those who never took up the profession prior to the patch updates they wouldn't notice the massive projectile speed nerf which destroyed a lot of throwing's potency.

As opposed to continuously nerfing all ranged classes until melee is the only viable choice they should look into buffing back archery and crossbows slightly to fix the imbalance towards throwers. As it is now though I think throwing is perfectly fine, you miss a lot and when you do hit you deal a significant amount of damage.

Folks need to realize that you will not always make it to melee combat, and you won't always make it into melee combat unscathed.

[Xant]

Melee combat is what M&B is all about, throwing and archery is there to add diversity. And throwing in itself shouldn't even be a "profession" in itself, it's retarded. It should be something melee'ers use to soften up their target.

Throwing is definitely NOT fine. Archery and xbows are.

[Belmont]

I was playing around yesterday with my thrower and everytime I got killed by a 2h/polearms/cav guy or combination of that it was a 1 hit kill. There has to be something wrong with that.

Also, when I picked up a 2h sword I could do the same with just 1 wpf in 2h. Even better yet, I never ran out of swings! When I was attacked, all I had to do was block. Didn't even have to pray the X button worked the first time I pressed it or that my last throw passed through my enemy.

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously with these posts?

You have 33 STR and 5 Ironflesh, in total you have 78 HP which is a LOT higher than 90%(made up statistic for the win!) of the players. (For reference: a common 18-18 build with 6 IF will have 65 HP)
You have 11 PS which is almost *double* the power strike a common 18-18 build would have. I do not see how it is surprising that you are able to one hit people.

[Xant]

Yeaaaaaaah. My dedicated 2her does not 1 hit people in armor. At 31, it's usually 3 hits on average or like 5-6 on the STR my old friends.

And any melee weapon (except crushthrough) can be blocked. Which is the difference between throwing and melee.

[Cain]

Throwing is fine, it's terribly inaccurate unless you go for the pure build. I only get a few kills with my throwing spears. And it is true it does soften up the target, I don't see what's wrong with that.

[Spawny]

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously with these posts?

You have 33 STR and 5 Ironflesh, in total you have 78 HP which is a LOT higher than 90%(made up statistic for the win!) of the players. (For reference: a common 18-18 build with 6 IF will have 65 HP)
You have 11 PS which is almost *double* the power strike a common 18-18 build would have. I do not see how it is surprising that you are able to one hit people.

You missed the fact I got 1 hit killed all the time too. And no, I wasn't trying to be serious.
I just get a bit tired of people complaining how OP throwing is when you can do a lot better (k/d wise) with a 1h/shield or 2h/polearm or cavalry build.
And it's really not the higher tier throwing weapons that make throwing OP, it's the lower tier.
Heavy throwing axes are PT4 (yes, just 4) and javelins are PT 3. Besides those 2, I use the darts and sometimes rocks for the lolfactor.
Heavy throwing axes are still a bit crappy when it comes to accuracy, but you can arc those things really well. When I'm on an even level with a few teammates running towards an enemy, I can curve the damn things over my teammates into the enemy (or his shield). On top of that, they deal quite a lot of damage, so when I manage to hit someone (randomfactor), it hurts.
The javelins are very good. They actually go in the direction you throw them. They do pretty good pierce damage and 2 are usually enough to kill most players.
The darts are archer killers. Just 2 or 3 needed per archer, good range, fast and very accurate.

Played 1 round with throwing lances: 2 kills 6 misses (shields/plain misses)
Played the next round with javelins: 8 kills, 2 wounded, 6 misses.
Next up heavy axes: No kills, got killed by a crossbow. Happened the next round too. Round after that I got 1 kill with throwing axes, then I got killed by melee (1 hit).

Nerf jarids/spears/lances and maybe heavy axes, but it would be better to alter the way throwing works.

Why not make PT just a requirement and have it do nothing else (could be hardcoded though). WPF should be used for both accuracy and damage. 150 wpf in throwing could be the equivalent of what 7 PT with 100 wpf is now. Change PT requirements on throwing weapons in such a way you can't get 4 PT+24 agility and throw heavy axes/javelins. Remove the friggin throwing lances allready. They are silly.
Imo, this would leave a dedicated thrower nearly unchanged (I would get more athletics, but no or very little ps. Overall damage still at PT7-PT9 levels), but it would make hybid throwers what they should be: secondary mode to soften shields before the melee fight.

The same should be done for melee weapons. No strength requirement, just a PS requirement. The highest tier swords needing 6 or 7 PS. This eliminates high agility spammers with high damage weapons AND it prevents almost all archers from pulling out a greatsword for melee.

[Belmont]

You missed the fact I got 1 hit killed all the time too.

Even naked it is very unlikely for you to be one hit as you have 78 HP. With decent armor you can easily survive a lot of hits. Before the patch I was level 44 with 36 STR and no IF and I could still a hell of a beating with Transitional.

I just get a bit tired of people complaining how OP throwing is when you can do a lot better (k/d wise) with a 1h/shield or 2h/polearm or cavalry build.

Disagree, throwing allows you to get a very high kill death ratio when used as a secondary weapon. Pre patch I had a KD ratio of over 4.0 and most of my kills were from my throwing weapons. Using KD to check whether a weapon is OP or UP is not an optimal way to do it. Usage rate of a particular weapon type or even weapon is slightly better as it allows you to see what the current FOTM is.

And it's really not the higher tier throwing weapons that make throwing OP, it's the lower tier.

Disagree, lances are still broken and were broken before the patch, being able to one hit kill most players wearing high tier armor is not fair, unless it is a head shot. It is possible to carry 9 lances (heirloomed) and a melee weapon. I consider Jarids to be high tier too as they are very deadly at 40p base.

Heavy throwing axes are PT4 (yes, just 4) and javelins are PT 3. Besides those 2, I use the darts and sometimes rocks for the lolfactor.

Throwing weapons scale too well with higher PT due to their high base damage. This is not a problem in Native as PT is limited but on cRPG you can stack PT which can be a problem (stacking other skills is also problematic but I believe PT takes the crown).

Heavy throwing axes are still a bit crappy when it comes to accuracy, but you can arc those things really well. When I'm on an even level with a few teammates running towards an enemy, I can curve the damn things over my teammates into the enemy (or his shield). On top of that, they deal quite a lot of damage, so when I manage to hit someone (randomfactor), it hurts.
The javelins are very good. They actually go in the direction you throw them. They do pretty good pierce damage and 2 are usually enough to kill most players.
The darts are archer killers. Just 2 or 3 needed per archer, good range, fast and very accurate.

If you are able to properly arc an axe you deserve the kill (damage could be adjusted a bit, though). In my opinion, all piercing throwing weapons damage should be adjusted in order to match the new damage values of crossbows and bows. War Darts do not need a nerf nor a buff, they are sadly underused for what they offer.

Nerf jarids/spears/lances and maybe heavy axes, but it would be better to alter the way throwing works.

It is impossible to alter the mechanics on how throwing works so the only solution is to nerf the weapons themselves.

Why not make PT just a requirement and have it do nothing else (could be hardcoded though). WPF should be used for both accuracy and damage.

The same should be done for melee weapons. No strength requirement, just a PS requirement. The highest tier swords needing 6 or 7 PS. This eliminates high agility spammers with high damage weapons AND it prevents almost all archers from pulling out a greatsword for melee.

AFAIK, similar suggestions have been made and they were rejected because it is hardcorded.

[gazda]

you are all complaining that throwing needs nerf, NOT TRUE, hybrid throwers/2h.1h.pole, hybrids in general, need nerf.

[Tai Feng]

hybrids in general, need nerf.

Hybrids are good for gameplay and fun.

Fun - you can change and variate playstyles without having to have multiple alts
Gameplay - do I really want to see Nord players with 1H, then some with war spear only, some with 2H axe only, then some with throwing only? I think it's much cooler with hybrids.

It's the same with cavalry and ranged shooters. Sure, we could have archers with 1H sword only like in Native. Or cavalry that pretty much sucks when dismounted. But I don't think many would agree to that.

People dislike hybrids only on melee it seems. If archer kills 5 people in melee with 2H sword that's ok, but if melee kills 5 people with throwing instead of his primary weapon, then hybrids are horrible.


(Note: I'm speaking in general and not saying any of these classes is (im)balanced.)

[Ujin]

hybrids in general, need nerf.

No

[Xant]

Hybrids don't need a nerf, pure characters need a buff. :3

And it's true. You don't lose much by going hybrid.