Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but agreed!
It mostly looked like a buff when I read it, but as always, it might need a closer inspection still.
If they dont fix throwing they should hand out free respecs and loom returns, at this point we might aswell realize devs will never give a shit about throwing.
siktir git amk.
I have a throwing alt,if you find it underpowered , its either you fucked up your build or you got a fucked up brain.
This shit is retardedly unrealistic I shot a guy at flag from fucking siege tower with a damn jarid.
What did you expect carrying 50 throwing lances ?
Throwing is not a fucking "ranged" class.
Never supposed to be.
It's either low-range skirmisher class or infantry with an option to throw shit at enemy before the charge.
You base your suggestion to comparison of throwing and archery ...
Thats just sad.
visitors can't see pics , please register or loginYeah sorry man,i was mad at some real life shit. I see now that it affected my posts lol.
Go play call of duty and fuckoff
Well it was a really big nerf after all.
With my 15/24 (27) throwing build i used to have a positive kd ratio all the time. I was able to deal more damage by throwing my axes than if i'd swing them.
After the patch it was just... yeah. At first i was happy cus of more ammo, but when i realized on eu1 that the damage was somehow weirdish, i did a damage test on eu3.
A dude with a mail-hauberk took 8 axes without his hp being below 1/3... (heavy throwing axes +3).
And after that i (for the last time) decided i'd rather use a class with working weapons.
Really a shame tho that after 16 gens of throwing im a 2h now... never thought this would happen. But throwing is just useless (except for trolling builds) atm.
Go play call of duty and fuckoff
Yes that is all, more dmg more ammo.WTF fucking comics :D :D :D make and add this video
Cause? Cause throwing is shit.
1. Lowest ammo count in the game, compared to the other ranged classes the ammo is a complete fucking joke in weight comparison / Check
2. Complete crap accuracy / Check
3. Dmg is a joke due to the low ammo, you carry a shit ton of weight to maybe kill 1 or 2 players with your entire stack of +3 throwing weapons / Check
4. Crap range, due to missile speed / Check
Throwing in general is just a class for shit n gigles an byzantium spartan roleplay events or strongman troll thrower builds.
Make throwing a decent viable class, thinking how old this mod is, its about time thx.
/End
EDIT: Love how the horde of 2h´s pole´s Cav´s are misusing me for showing up a case of crappy balance.....Fuck this biased piece of shit forum....Here is a little bit of throwing history thx to cheap shot
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No it really doesn't lol!!Haha it really does lol!
I dont plan on playing thrower either until the class gets a fix, cause like mentioned troughout the thread by those of us dedicated throwers, throwing is currently just not worth it.
I dont plan on playing thrower either until the class gets a fix, cause like mentioned troughout the thread by those of us dedicated throwers, throwing is currently just not worth it.
Your own damage can increase a fair bit from your own speed bonus.
Used to be true, but no longer is. Speed bonus seems to be pretty much +-0 at infantry speeds at this point... Some dev with their fancy tech could test this please?
Also id like to add that throwing it on the "you cant compare it with archery or crossbowing" isnt really cool. These are meant for long range whilst throwing is for shorter range. I would like to see throwing speed like this awesome graph shows:
^ projectile speed
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0 Distance travelled>
I think the throwing weapon should get inneffective after like 20 meters travelled, it is indeed not compareable with crossbowing and archery, but then we could argue that the arcade archery we currently have isnt very accurate either..
Also throwing should have a sweet spot so that your hits do more efficiently damage after your weapon travelled like 8 meters(whatever).This way it wont be the silly shotgunning you saw before, which is just.. Meh
Just imagine only getting hit by the back of a something-pretty-fast-going hatchet, I mean that wrecks your entire ribcase, but there werent alot of them on the battlefield, as a dude cant just take 9 hatchets with him to battle. I'd say we should make throwing more realistic, agonizingly low ammo count and a shitload more damage. :p
Using +3 throwing spears, 7PT 6ath 142 wpf with medium armor against 47 armor (had to use a large warhorse to test), damage went from 65 raw standing still to 71 raw when running. For final damage, that's ~25 to 30. To compare throwing damages while standing still, it's like going from a 7PT throw to a 9PT throw. That's still pretty good to me.
A 7 PS speed bonus +3 steel pick swing probably does around the same damage. Bump up the damage to jarids, and you can still compare a single throw to a powerful melee swing.
5 riding max speed on a large warhorse increased my raw damage from 53 standing still to 70, also, with only 2HA. An optimized horse thrower on a faster horse should be able to deal great amounts of damage at max speed.
...5 riding max speed on a large warhorse increased my raw damage from 53 standing still to 70, also, with only 2HA. An optimized horse thrower on a faster horse should be able to deal great amounts of damage at max speed.
Ammo count and accuracy, those are the things that can be considered for a buff. Fuck high missile speed and high damage per shot.
Since u can max. throw 2 of them (even hitting (even headshots) ) while the enemy just keeps on running towards you and chops your head off.Serves you right for being an isolated ranged player. More ammo, but lower per shot damage rewards the throwers that stay alive by rolling with teammates, being aware of their positioning in battle, and switching to melee when necessary. Your playstyle of being an solo missile platform at the edge of the map, two or three shotting anything that comes at you is in my opinion not at all a playstyle that needs to be encouraged whatsoever. Your argument is like me arguing that pike should have a crushthrough attack and 3 times the damage, because otherwise I can't kill anyone before they run towards me and chop my head off. What the hell are you doing on your own anyway? Farming kills and horse kills and then showing up back at the main fight when everybody else is dead, I don't mind if that becomes less viable.
More ammo and more accuracy does not turn throwing into being an archer, I am talking about a little more accuracy and some more ammo compared to a little more damage and higher missile speed. Which just gives throwing a different niche.
Serves you right for being an isolated ranged player. More ammo, but lower per shot damage rewards the throwers that stay alive by rolling with teammates, being aware of their positioning in battle, and switching to melee when necessary. Your playstyle of being an solo missile platform at the edge of the map, two or three shotting anything that comes at you is in my opinion not at all a playstyle that needs to be encouraged whatsoever. Your argument is like me arguing that pike should have a crushthrough attack and 3 times the damage, because otherwise I can't kill anyone before they run towards me and chop my head off. What the hell are you doing on your own anyway? Farming kills and horse kills and then showing up back at the main fight when everybody else is dead, I don't mind if that becomes less viable.
Reward the throwers that are in the thick of the fighting, using their ranged ability to pick off key targets and turning the tide of the battle. Mendro for example, shining example of playing thrower in a way that is well integrated with the rest of the battle. More ammo and more accuracy does not turn throwing into being an archer, I am talking about a little more accuracy and some more ammo compared to a little more damage and higher missile speed. Which just gives throwing a different niche.
I like that. Except the last part... if u play the realism car, you should also give archers way more damage and make it impossible to have a quiver holding 70 arrows...
To me at some point throwing seemed OP, but it was never used on EU in large enough numbers to actually make it show. My build has been 15/24 from the beginning and my KDs were quite high considering I don't play a lot of throwing and I'm pretty bad with all ranged classes. And after I ran out of ammo I was still a perfectly viable 2H hero, although in light armor. I feel a nerf to the damage wasn't a bad idea and also rebalacing the throwing is fine, Jarids were the only reasonable thing anyone would use.
That said, I would love to hear from San or any other dev why he thinks it's not a good suggestion to just buff the speed bonus? I googled around for a bit and found that a throwing spear would in reality fly at about 150kph max and a horse gallop is around 40kph. The thrower himself could prolly run at 10kph or more while throwing the stuff. Ek=½mv^2. This means that both going at full speed there should be a 1.33^2=1.78 times damage on the throwing things. 78% is a tad more than the 10% we currently have........ And as I said before if this makes HT overpowered - and it surely would - then just nerf the damn throwing on horseback, not throwing in whole.
What higher speed bonus would mean is that the retard plate cav that thinks he can steamroll anything and everything, will be badly hurt as will be the 2H hero that decides to run straight at a thrower. This also means that when the smart cavalry or hero runs away from the thrower they get hit with significantly lower damage.
then just nerf the damn throwing on horseback, not throwing in whole.If the base penalty was increased and the properties of the HA bonus could be tweaked, it may be possible to increase it. From what I know about skills, they can't be edited very easily, though. Otherwise, there's little room to separate how a weapon on horseback would operate compared to on the ground.
The current increase is still quite large, much larger than the 10% you're stating. I saw a 40% increase in raw damage on the slower horses,
In the numbers you posted it was 32% for the large warhorse (which isn't a slow horse, but rather average), so yeah it's more than 10%, but still not nearly enough to actually kill the darned beasts. And that exactly is my problem; I can still kill infantry and especially light infantry, but what I would like to do is hunt cav and that I can no longer do. Without throwers the only ranged class that heavy cav is afraid of is arbalesters. Buffing speed bonus would punish them for choosing the wrong target.I agree completely. Hunting cav is not viable anymore. Not enough damage and/or ammo to hunt down more than 1 horse. And then I'm not even considering hunting ha who pepper you with a constant stream of arrows while you're not in throwing range.
Horse throwing damage was indeed quite high at one point, but their lack of ability to scavenge ammo made my KDs actually drop compared to throwing on foot. Also at lower levels (30) I lacked important skills like PS and athletics, which made me quite useless in most maps on EU1.
With statements like this, it's difficult to filter out what you're really trying to say. Come on now.
(click to show/hide)
I'm not a fan of your proposed changes to javelin like weapons Fin. You're already vunerable to melee, because if you're caught in melee holding a javelin like weapon, you're most likely dead. The weight increase and the 2 slots is just going to make that even worse. Not to mention you've changed the long standing dynamic between jarids and throwing spears (jarids being stronger and more accurate, while spears have more ammo). You for some reason want to change that now to be the other way around?
And your changes to lances would completely destroy my build, a build I've had for years and that I've always been able to maintain a roughly 2.5 to 1 kill death/ratio on. Lances shouldn't be in the same category as the rest of the javelin weapons. Lances are the ultimate hybrid throwing weapon, they have the best melee capabilities and the worst ranged ones. You want to nerf their melee power (by upping the weight by a LOT) and you want to nerf their ranged power (by reducing their damage). The paltry missile speed buff is not going to help much in actually hitting things (especially with the accuracy nerf) and with the speed bonus nerf the 1 shotting power of lances is already greatly reduced.
Honestly, all that's needed is a point or 3 of damage buff to compensate the unneeded speed bonus nerf, and throwing is good. Why go through the bother to try and radically alter the way weapons are balanced and used.
Oh don't get me wrong here! My "changes" are no real changes after all. I picked rather extreme examples to emphasize HOW you could change the weapons towards a bigger variety of usable builds.
That's why declared them as "examples" not "must-changes".
I'm not an item balancer, and i know that most of the values i changed might impact on a lot more things than i know - I was just trying to use common sense here & show a different way.
The whole weight-changes were meant to counter the high damage potential the whole pointy-throwing-family has, without actually cutting the damage itself.
Bringing back the speed bonus would for example reenable you to do your job. On the other hand, the higher weight would counter further nerfs. Cus for the first time, Cut and Pierce throwing would be equal - yet different:
While the spear thrower has his advantages over a longer distance, the cut thrower could fight back once he's got through the rain of spears.
Same goes for all the other classes you're facing: u'll have a big window of time to get rid of them. But once they reach you - you have to fight (btw. with a really good polearm).
Your class would still work the way it worked before, but giving other classes the oportunity to make their classes work as well.
What i meant by saying(that) is:(click to show/hide)
We should support the specific characteristics of each weapon:I see what you're getting at. Either way, I believe that throwing did need to have its accuracy increase regardless of whether the damage was increased or decreased. The removal of the stagger definitely changed a lot of things, though. Now, the cut weapons can't really afford to be too much weaker than their pierce counterparts imo.
Throwing Axes:
What the class actually is: The axe line basically is a combination of strong melee, and strong close-distance ranged. However on mid - long range, they're too inaccurate and slow to really be something you should rely on.
Now, the problem is that everything that's been done so far to compensate for the overall nerfs on ranged, was not helping the axe-line after all. And here's why:
Ranged Stun was removed --> you have much less oportunities to throw your axes because ppl will reach you faster than before. I know that's a nerf for every ranged class - but obviously those who have to be close to the enemy are handicapped the most. Of course, the good melee-potential of the whole axe-line kind of counters that - but at the same time it kind of restricts the MAIN Weapon Mode.
If you think increasing the ammo would solve that problem you're just wrong. And the same goes for the "accuracy buff" on axes - which basically does nothing except looking good on the paper - because they were really accurate if you used them on close range - and that's just the situation you SHOULD use them.
So instead of Buffing Axes in a way that doesn't buff them at all we should try to shape and support the characteristics.
That's the ONLY way to balance a class without destroying it - Shaping strength and weakness and hereby creating a niche and a contact point for other classes as well as for the class itself.
Absolutely no one should complain about being killed with 1 Shot if he charges a thrower directly. Just like no thrower should complain about being onehit by a 2hander he tried to defeat with stones.
This is one EXAMPLE:(click to show/hide)
The phallus-like ones:
While Axes are basically for close combat purposes, the spear line requires a different approach. Those weapons should be used for mid range cav defense and to soften enemy lines as well as hunting single targets.
The melee mode isn't as important as it is for the Axes - however accuracy is a fortiori.
In this case we can savely use reality as a guide how to handle them: long, areodynamic projectiles are much faster than unbalanced, bulky ones. Also they are much more reliable when it comes to aimed shots, and you can carry much more ammunition since you can stack them or use a quiver. The penetration power is decent - but they're heavy and pretty unhandy.
Here's an example:(click to show/hide)
Low Damage Cut Throwing:I don't think so. I think they need a damage increase/weight decrease.
Those are really meant to be a sidearm. And i think they're doing their job just fine.
Huh? 8 ammo down to 1 or 2? The ammo is what helps them defend against ranged. I think most would hate it. The difficulties on the lower shurikens and throwing knives make sense, but I would want to keep throwing daggers and snowflakes at 1 difficulty.(click to show/hide)
Horse-Thrower ProblemAll it did was allow you to deal large amounts of damage while being safe from damage yourself. Heavy cav is a problem, though, but that's a change for heavy cav. Headshots don't work well against horses right now, which is kind of dumb. Trying out HT recently, the accuracy increase makes them pretty accurate on horse. Quite a few headshots that I aimed for landed.
Isn't a problem at all. I'd even say just change the speedbonus like it was before. The high damage is (was) well balanced by the really bad accuracy on Horseback - you really have to get close to place a good shot - but this also means, that your enemy has a much higher chance of oneshotting you too - that's something ppl seem to forget sometimes - Speedbonus works both ways.
Also, i'd like to throw in that the only thing, the speedbonus nerf achieved, was flooding eu1 with heavy armored cav.
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So, in order to wrap it all up in a few sentences:
The speedbonus nerf, as well as the stun-removal (as Kafein said before) was a big disempowerment of all ranged classes that now results in a massive growth of the cavalry-population.
By trying to buff one of the biggest threats to cav (throwing) you did a step into the right direction but failed to see it through.
Throwing - of all classes the one that's most affected by the speedbonus change since it's the only rangedclass - except mounted ranged - that can attack WHILE moving - had to suffer a massive reduction of their offensive power (vs. their main enemy = cav).
This Damagereduction was balanced by giving accuracy - which doesn't aim for the real enemy (=cav) but for infantry - and doesn't even affect ALL Throwing weapons.
So what u basically did was NERFING Throwing, and BUFFING cav.
Denial doesn't help here. We need to find a solution.
Do you think fixing cav headshot damage would help? Make the hurtbox the proper size, make the armour something like 1/2, and apply the current headshot multiplier from infantry to the horse. The improved accuracy would help throwers land highly damaging headshots.
Do you think fixing cav headshot damage would help? Make the hurtbox the proper size, make the armour something like 1/2, and apply the current headshot multiplier from infantry to the horse. The improved accuracy would help throwers land highly damaging headshots.
Imo headshots are too random in this game to make them any more powerful than they are atm - the opposite in fact. I hate dieing to headshots as much as I lol at killing people with random headshots. Why not just punish bad never-release-w-cav with heavier speed bonus? As I've tried to say over and over, it causes no problems against infantry (the nerf was fine) and actually makes smart cav survive longer. I can't see the downside.........Headshots against horses work differently than headshots against melee. Headshots against a horse is like a throw against 0 armour. Headshots against infantry multiplies final damage (which is not random). A thrower's raw damage is going to be 60-80. The hurtbox of the horse headshot is off, so throwing into a horse's eye isn't going to count. It's only located at the nose right now.
What makes me question the speedbonusnerf is the fact that the horsearmour and HP were adjusted to the damage they take while charging a ranged enemy.I think heavy cav and cav weaknesses are problems. The heads and legs should be weakspots for both melee and ranged at half armour, fixed horse headshot hurtbox, and a damage multiplier for headshots from ranged. I can't really change any of it directly, though, only suggest it when the next WSE2 update occurs or something. I believe that just nerfing stats wouldn't be that great of an idea without a complete overhaul that includes reducing their prices.
Now with the decreased speedbonus this means that all horses are too well armoured.
I think this is an impact of the Speedbonusnerf you overlooked.
As a result of this Jarids as anticav projectiles are worthless now. This is very sad, because it was the main porpose for my thrower so far.
I don't think so. A wise thrower would aim for the Rider anyway.Sorry, I was thinking of a scenario where the rider would be holding a shield up riding towards the thrower. Under that condition, I believed it would be easy to get a headshot on the horse.
The main problem ist not accuracy or hitboxes.
The main problem is that damage / skill point investment / cost / weight is not balanced.
If I recall correctly, I remember good cav received even less damage when using speed bonus to their advantage. I remember last year being able to get my rouncey to survive multiple throwing lances. Speed bonus was something that really only hurt bad cav that charged poorly.
Compared to other ranged classes, throwing still seems like good damage, skill point investment, cost, and weight. 41p throwing weapons slightly outdamage 35p bows and 70p crossbows at 7PT/PD. For 3 skill points, you have access to 34-35p/b throwing weapons. The high end is poor, though, requiring 6-7 for spears and lances. Costs for throwing outside of stacked jarids/throwing lances are low, and even then those two are not that bad compared to other ranged. Throwers have the lowest weight out of any ranged class, but the lower tier should have less weight. I think accuracy and ammo count are still the main issues where they are far too lacking, while the rest of the problems lie with heavy cav. Heavy cav is the easiest class right now.
Compared to melee weapons, a single throwing weapon deals more damage. The hurtbox/accuracy part was how skilled throwers get rewarded. Melee has more damage multipliers to work with, however. Throwing should receive hold bonus damages, though, if it's even possible. Getting 3 swings on an opponent is also easier than 3 throws, but throwers can retrieve missed ammo.
"We should support the specific characteristics of each weapon"
I can't say whether this is a good idea or not, but it is possible to give the "anti-cav"-ish throwables bonus damage vs. horses with some ti_on_agent_hit kluging.Yeah, I suggested doing this a few months back. I think 15 or 20% additional damage would be beneficial, without risking any imbalances.
We seem to have completely different ideas about balance, what throwing is, and should be. I'm tempted to argue nearly every single point that follows the "throwing isn't ranged" statement.(click to show/hide)
Yeah, I suggested doing this a few months back. I think 15 or 20% additional damage would be beneficial, without risking any imbalances.
We seem to have completely different ideas about balance, what throwing is, and should be. I'm tempted to argue nearly every single point that follows the "throwing isn't ranged" statement.
U a thrower yourself?Am I thrower? What kind of question is that? I don't consider myself to be anything. I retired my character Farfalle/Bigoli at 32, twice with thrower builds(pre double xp), as well as several builds on my STF. I think most poeple on NA would acknowledge the fact that I am rarely ever seen playing the same character, and particular the same build, for an extensive period of time(My character Tydeus, has been level 34 for about a year and a half now, and I'm still 30 mil xp out). I have several alts with varying builds, which should better qualify a person to make decisions, than someone who only plays one specific class. Such a person can indeed, in some situations, provide a perspective that is unattainable to a person like myself, but it would be the epitome of a biased opinion.
But yeah...what i meant was - throwing should be approached as a single class not just as a "ranged" class. Just like i wouldn't compare crossbows and bows. They all require different skillsets and playstyles and therefor should be processed seperately.I picture balance of the ranged types as an equilateral triangle, where the highest point is archery, and the lowest two, throwing and crossbows. As you increase in height, you become more "ranged oriented", for lack of a better phrase. While as a crossbower you don't have the skill sink that throwing has, which allows you to afford to get better melee capabilities, you often have to be away from heated combat to be able to shoot, and therefore, utilize the other part of your build. Throwing on the other hand, still has a skill sink(not quite as large as archery), but due to proximity, is often forced into melee situations.
Of course it would be wrong to do that completely out of the whole context - but still - throwing is just different from other classes.
I picture balance of the ranged types as an equilateral triangle, where the highest point is archery, and the lowest two, throwing and crossbows.
Hoplite is good :)
A problem with poles now is the high movement speed penalty. That with the new shorter reach makes them a bit underpowered in general. Makes it so weapons that should feel quite long actually get outranged by short stuff because you move much slower compared to shorter weaponsThe recent speed bonus changes only applied to ranged damage calculations, not melee.
The recent speed bonus changes only applied to ranged damage calculations, not melee.
I meant the reduced movement speed you get from the length of the weapon. Longer poles just don't feel like they have good effective reach atm, which should be their strong suit.Ahhh. That would be the polearm thrust animation. I'm still debating whether or not to actually fix it, as a real fix will require changing it so much, that it won't have the same feeling as the native thrust. I'd have to change the beginning of the anim so you actually pull the arms further back, before lurching forward and extending the arms, then take a few frames from the beginning of the release_continue and add them to the end of the release. It'll feel less glancy, but timing hits will definitely be different than timing with the native thrust.
Ahhh. That would be the polearm thrust animation. I'm still debating whether or not to actually fix it, as a real fix will require changing it so much, that it won't have the same feeling as the native thrust. I'd have to change the beginning of the anim so you actually pull the arms further back, before lurching forward and extending the arms, then take a few frames from the beginning of the release_continue and add them to the end of the release. It'll feel less glancy, but timing hits will definitely be different than timing with the native thrust.OK bring it!
If tydeus could set back the missile speed like before, it'd be great !I changed the throwing missile speed...? What?
I changed the throwing missile speed...? What?
I just see a guy surviving from a masterwork jarid in this head. I have 10 PT.I agree this sounds wrong, but there are people who survive fully loomed Arbalest bolts (100p instead of 41p*(1+0.1*10)) into the head.
Even If he is a plated guys, I don't feel this balance.
I made mistake in my post, really ...That's still the case, it just doesn't make as massive of a difference as it did before.
I'm talking about the speed bonus, and not the missile speed. It seems logical that if you run toward an archer or a thrower, you 'll get hit harder than in the case you would be running in the opposite direction.
throwers when it comes at melee, often not able to spare enough wpf to fight decently.Then you need to get less PT.
7 PD is a choice you make. You get like -14% archer wpf for each PD-14% seems a bit high. Realistically, for a dedicated build, it's probably closer to 5%.
so if your issue is people living when not hitting the body, you should be complaining more about accuracy than damage.
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_calf_l, 85), #already gets native damage reduction
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_calf_r, 85), #already gets native damage reduction
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_foot_l, 70),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_foot_r, 70),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_shoulder_l, 85),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_shoulder_r, 85),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_upperarm_l, 75),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_upperarm_r, 75),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_forearm_l, 70),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_forearm_r, 70),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_hand_l, 65),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_hand_r, 65),
didn't in real life.
Such a waste of time typing wall of texts, even uploading screens of what I'm complaining about, when I can't even face to such anti - ranged lobbyists that think a jarid or a bodkin in a head cannot kill anything and didn't in real life.It's a video game. Realism only counts for so much. 1 shots, aren't fun, particularly when they come from a damage source that you yourself can't do anything against. Head hits might very well need to do more damage, but hitting someone in the head isn't so hard, or so skill dependent, that it deserves to be a 1 hit kill 100% of the time.
1 shots, aren't fun, particularly when they come from a damage source that you yourself can't do anything against
I understand this point, but it's not fun for me when I have 10 pt and just 9 ammo to see a guys surviving to jarid in the head.Yeah, I get 1hit by 1h/2h cav all the time. It is indeed a problem, and we're trying to address that issue as well as other issues that cause cav to clearly be overpowered atm. Unfortunately, it's significantly harder to address, particularly because one relies on hardcoded numbers(cav), the other(ranged) can simply be changed through the module system(for the most part).
And the 1h shots fact it's happening with 1h cav.
Why do we have to get rid of 1shot kills.
If you get 1shot killed by cav you clearly didn't watch out for them. Same with throwers. If you are aware you can dodge. Nobody complaines about being 1shotted by a 2H-Str-hero.So leave the possibility to other classes as well.
And to come bach to the topic:
Just watch EU1 and see all cav charging straight into throwers because they know nothing is going to happen. This is just wrong and needs to be undone by giving back the full speedbonus.
but the jav/spear/jarid line is just fine
There's another upcoming change that I want to see how it turns out before I consider trying to get those weapons buffed.
Or the bump mechanics could be tweaked so you don't get bumped as easily
bring back 2010 balance. All this balancers kindergarten just irritate. Same with upkeep and slot system.
EDIT: Love how the horde of 2h´s pole´s Cav´s are misusing me for showing up a case of crappy balance.....
Yeah, I get 1hit by 1h/2h cav all the time. It is indeed a problem, and we're trying to address that issue as well as other issues that cause cav to clearly be overpowered atm. Unfortunately, it's significantly harder to address, particularly because one relies on hardcoded numbers(cav), the other(ranged) can simply be changed through the module system(for the most part).
#Human bones
hb_abdomen = 0
hb_thigh_l = 1
hb_calf_l = 2
hb_foot_l = 3
hb_thigh_r = 4
hb_calf_r = 5
hb_foot_r = 6
hb_spine = 7
hb_thorax = 8
hb_head = 9
hb_shoulder_l = 10
hb_upperarm_l = 11
hb_forearm_l = 12
hb_hand_l = 13
hb_item_l = 14
hb_shoulder_r = 15
hb_upperarm_r = 16
hb_forearm_r = 17
hb_hand_r = 18
hb_item_r = 19 #ranged to human bone damage
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_calf_l, 85), #already gets native damage reduction
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_calf_r, 85), #already gets native damage reduction
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_foot_l, 70),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_foot_r, 70),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_shoulder_l, 85),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_shoulder_r, 85),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_upperarm_l, 75),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_upperarm_r, 75),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_forearm_l, 70),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_forearm_r, 70),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_hand_l, 65),
(troop_set_slot, "trp_crpg_ranged2human_bone_damage", hb_hand_r, 65),
Bones not shown here either receive a damage bonus(head) or no penalty at all.Buff throwing already.I was the first one killed there.(click to show/hide)
I was the first one killed there.Lies, we had just spawned and all were onehit kills across the map.
Had a heavy helmet, but also less than 10% health. All the others he killed was also hit earlier.
Lies, we had just spawned and all were onehit kills across the map.
I can confirm that. Furthermore : Fin, best player in the universe.
Using Francisca ?
Some time I have the feeling you do the same damage as me, it's weird
+ 3 heavy throwing axes!
But really. You're more of the "aimed but strong" kinda throwing dude. Im more of the ABUZETHESPEEDBONUS weak one.Sadly, I never survive a headshot, even though I have 63 head armour... unless when it's throwing hitting my head.
Axes suck at high pt IMO.
Plus, those kills were really lucky and at the end of the round.
Also they weren't looking in my direction, so i had quite a good chance. Usually it's more like i would've had my head chopped off by jarlek after he survived the headshot... :(
so, throwing got its buff but.... this buff is awful. It's the cut weapons like the axes that felt underpowered compared to everything else, but they only got minor boosts, while jarids, javelins, and war darts got +10 pierce. WAR DARTS now do more than jarids did before the update...
Unless they changed the speed bonus, throwing is still useless against cav, so nothing has changed here.
But is throwing useless or cav OP ?
so, throwing got its buff but.... this buff is awful. It's the cut weapons like the axes that felt underpowered compared to everything else, but they only got minor boosts, while jarids, javelins, and war darts got +10 pierce. WAR DARTS now do more than jarids did before the update...psst.
But is throwing useless or cav OP ?
I'm waiting for comments from regular axes users to tell me their feeling about the buff. Personally I don't see a big difference.
psst.
The buff on war darts, javelins and jarids is for the melee mode.
Finally also the cheaper axes can be used now! Big + for chadz & co!
But: Is Speed bonus back now?
It makes the game so much more realistic and its also a must for throwers in battle.
@BlackbowOMFG!!!!!!
Archers are still getting their quiver weights steadily lowered. I'm not an archer, so I leave those kinds of proposals to Xynox.
How the hell can you listen to Xynox when it comes to archery?+1
atm Throwing is just fine. Maybe even a bit OP.
No i mean the damage AND acuracy buff kinda made it really easy.
atm Throwing is just fine. Maybe even a bit OP.