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Ah, for all we know that was a mw arbalest :D
Why the hell are you still alive??? Buff ranged nao!
Archery damage is extremely random (or it's maybe just the armor soak that's extremely random)
Sometimes an archer only takes 1/5 or 1/4 of my health, sometimes up to 80 %. I had Cup1d two-shot me with a horn bow when I had 50 armor, 27 str and 9 IF without positive speed bonus or height advantage. That's ridiculous, but I also had archers dealing 1/10 in the same gen, also ridiculous.
On my horse xbow alt I've had rus bows one-shot my arabian to the ass while running away and I've also been running around with 4 arrows in it.
If the damage was less random, I would be more happy. You never know if you can afford to take an arrow or not now, sometimes the damage is pitiful, sometimes over the top :?
THAT'S A CROSSBOW BOLT, NOT AN ARROW.
How to make cRPG fun again in 3 easy steps.*Nerf Upkeep
1. Buff everything.
2. Nerf archery.
3. Let the good times roll.
Archery damage is extremely random (or it's maybe just the armor soak that's extremely random)
Sometimes an archer only takes 1/5 or 1/4 of my health, sometimes up to 80 %. I had Cup1d two-shot me with a horn bow when I had 50 armor, 27 str and 9 IF without positive speed bonus or height advantage. That's ridiculous, but I also had archers dealing 1/10 in the same gen, also ridiculous.
On my horse xbow alt I've had rus bows one-shot my arabian to the ass while running away and I've also been running around with 4 arrows in it.
If the damage was less random, I would be more happy. You never know if you can afford to take an arrow or not now, sometimes the damage is pitiful, sometimes over the top :?
Stop whining, the archer probably had 7 PD and a longbow
so its ok for an archer with 7pd to 2 hit a semi-tank build? NERF THAT SHIT!!!
Stop whining, the archer probably had 7 PD and a longbow
so its ok for an archer with 7pd to 2 hit a semi-tank build? NERF THAT SHIT!!!
I usually get 2hit by 2h players, and that with enough body armor and medium hp. NERF?
Putting polelord on the to-ban list for being especially retarded.umad bro?
I call BS. Rejected!
If only. Strengh heavy builds can 1hit most archers, nice overhead from behind, armour below 30 body, 40 head will not survive a greatsword overhead
How to make cRPG fun again in 3 easy steps.This
1. Buff everything.
2. Nerf archery.
3. Let the good times roll.
I usually get 2hit by 2h players, and that with enough body armor and medium hp. NERF?
I usually get 2hit by 2h players, and that with enough body armor and medium hp. NERF?
It is supposed to do that, but, I and many melee build I'm sure can confirm that light armored archers/xbows will take as many hits to kill as medium armored melee fighters. Which is completely retarded. don't let me start on this one.no they dont.
But you can defend yourself from them, archer will shoot you all day long or until they're out of ammo.
I would also like to point out that as long as there are archers that go for maximum power instead of accuracy there's going to be people qqing about how they got 2 or 3 shot. Most realistic archer builds take 4-6 shots. Just because some freak of nature goes 9PD with MW longbow and MW bodkins 2 shots you doesn't mean to nerf archery. Thats like asking to nerf the flamberge because it one shots like 50% of the community. It's powerful, but not nearly as practical
That's the risk you take going 2-hander or any non-shield build. More damage but more risk
NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
We need one patch to nerf them all!!!
But then the archer shouldn't be able to do the same sort of damage for a lot less risks.
We don't do nearly the damage 2 handers do...watch any strat battle and you'll realize that....
It is supposed to do that, but, I and many melee build I'm sure can confirm that light armored archers/xbows will take as many hits to kill as medium armored melee fighters. Which is completely retarded. don't let me start on this one.
We don't do nearly the damage 2 handers do...watch any strat battle and you'll realize that....
Crossbows especially the arbalest takes time to reload.... just stop them from reloading and your set. Most do not have adequate melee stats to fight you for long term combat, even if they know how to block just as good as you. If they get a hit off it wont hurt as to where your lulgreatsword build will likely kill them in 1 swing
It takes me 3 swings to kill a long bow using archer with a bec [He also had to have at least 7 aths]. He could, on the other hand, one or two shot me
morso: No. Just no.
I've never once been 1hit by a bow. actually they only do at most 60% from long bows +3 with +3 arrows with 8 PD.
Arbalests tho. I get 1hit every time. Even if they hit me in the leg or arm :(
But then the archer shouldn't be able to do the same sort of damage for a lot less risks.Well. I am archer with 0IF and light armor usually it takes 3 arrows from other archers to kill me, sometimes 4. And most of the time I get 1 hit by 2handers, even 1handers one hitting me aren't that unusual. And now you tell me archers do the same damage than 2hers? Bitch please. For some reason 2hers just seem to think they are suppoused to pwn everyone and nothing should be able to touch them.
ok i think i need to put in a rageanswear here.
Wanteds: You seem to be somewhat challenged so let me put this simple for you.
1. You didn't lose ½ your hp to a bow, you lost it to a CROSSBOW. There's is one hell of a differance.
2. Dont whine about range when your a 2h hand build since you've forsaken all defence against range when you went 2h without a shield on your back.
Still mad? Learn to dodge. If you see the archer it's easy to dodge the arrows (not easy to dodge crossbows).
I have to shoot a medium armor guy about 4-5 times that's maybe 21 str and i'm guessing at least a few points in IF to kill him.
Is it viable to nerf a class that requires everything put into it not to suck utterly (because let's be honest all you hybrids out there, hybrid archer sucks. alot.).
I think not.
I have alot to say here but i fear if i write any more i might resort to words that might be interpret as somewhat offensive wich would be unfortunate. So yeah.
LEARN TO PLAY 2H NOOB
8-)
No, you die, and you accept it. Because everyone dies.Now I understand. Thank you for opening my eyes. (with your righteous arrows)
So I have to go shielder or I have to stand on the field dancing for half an hour to avoid arrows while the archers keep kiting and laughing at my silly moves and slowly kill me dead?
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS I DONT EVEN...
Just close this stupid thread.
So you don't like that you can't chase down a guy with no armor, while you are wearing heavy armor? You don't want to be inconvenienced with having to actively dodge arrows? You don't wanna put a point into shield skill or use a 0 skill one and have the insufferable burden of carrying it in case you need protection from archers?
Poor you.
Yeah, nerf archers.
Ahem. Well, if we want to talk balance, shield bump range needs to be increased, since shielders are supposed to be a counter to archers
No, just like pikes aren't a counter to cav. They both repel what people think they counter. Range counter cav, 1h+shield+throwing counters archers. That's a class that has its defense against archers as well as its offense against archers, that's a true counter. Dedicated shielders only have the defense against projectiles. If you don't believe me, then watch a native match. Shielders can't harm archers most of the time, but with 5-10 javs they're taking down archers like flies. And just like in native, archers are rarely able to have a shield and a bow and yet be very effective which makes throwing weapons a joy against them.
That's the sad part with native, the archers are so op that every infantry has throwing weapons. It's all one big ranged fest with one cav here and there.
no I dont like it cause: he's faster than me, he's unreachable to me, he is attacking me from a safe distance, and he is doing at least as much damage to me as I can do to him.
Now someone with the slightest of common sense would say thats not balanced!
There should be a bigger damage penalty for agi archers.
There should be a higher accuracy penalty for str archers.
"Oh noez, I can't reach archers because I decided to str crutch and wear heavy armor and I'm slow as shit and I'm too stupid to bring a shield that I could easily switch to when I needRetard.
No there shouldn't, you just need to quit whining. You decided to use a playstyle that affords you no counter to range. Bring a shield with you, how fucking hard is that?
"Oh noez, I can't reach archers because I decided to str crutch and wear heavy armor and I'm slow as shit and I'm too stupid to bring a shield that I could easily switch to when I need it and I didn't bother to put points in anything like throwing to hit fleeing archers"
And it's complete bullshit he is doing as much damage as a two handed guy. I wear light/medium armor and most archers barely do shit to me. I use a shield and I have throwing and I still get shot to death and one shotted in my eyeball...you know what I do? I go look at the internet or something till the rounds over, I don't nerdrage and go make stupid threads on the forums.
Time and time again, players think that classes should be balanced around their one particular class and not around all the classes as a whole. It's the #1 source of whine in this forum.
so your solution to this is that every infantry should sacrifice some of his points into unwanted skills to make up for the fact that archers are too damn op? well it seems that you are the stupid one here.
so your solution to this is that every infantry should sacrifice some of his points into unwanted skills to make up for the fact that archers are too damn op? well it seems that you are the stupid one here.
so your solution to this is that every infantry should sacrifice some of his points into unwanted skills to make up for the fact that archers are too damn op? well it seems that you are the stupid one here.
There are 5 shields that require 0 skill points to use.
And yes, if you don't wanna be so butthurt about archers that you feel the need to make a thread about nerfing ranged, when there is already a thread about it on the first page, then yeah...you might wanna change your play style.
And how are those skills "unwanted" if you are bitching about archers? Get tools to beat archer. You're kinda thick man.
Well... you think archers should be nerfed to ground just because you don't want to adapt and learn, use more than couple slots or any other skills than one?no i dont want archers to get nerfed to the ground, where did i said that? anything else?
Ever tried to hide behind those shielders? Makes you life much easier. Or go around buildings and sneak behind archers. That you should do, if you don't want to sacrifice anything.
But no, you want to rush through open fields and smash those puny archers face. Archers clearly are op if they catch you doing that.
5 shields that require 0 skill? which will break with a fart? u are really retarded u know?
and stop posting here and go to that other threat if u have nothing but insults to share...
5 shields that require 0 skill? which will break with a fart? u are really retarded u know?
and stop posting here and go to that other threat if u have nothing but insults to share...
There are no ninjas in native. Cant think of any main infantry class in native that has 0 shields...none. Its a ranged fest to be sure, but at least you can turtle it up. But then they get pretty large ammo count too...Its saddening.
They can take several arrows. You don't seem to comprehend that you can't pick a 2 handed guy, str crutch and then bitch because you get shot with arrows. Your op was a crossbow bolt anyways. You are full of shit about how much damage arrows generally do. I usually wear a Byrnja or other light/medium stuff and most of the time arrows do insignificant damage. Arrows are not bolts.done with your crying? You are obviously butthurt about STR builds but you are in the wrong threat to cry about it. its about archers here not STR builds and niether shielders.
And like Applesauce said, 2 handed is one of the most overpowered things in the game. You're just being a whiner.
Well. I am archer with 0IF and light armor usually it takes 3 arrows from other archers to kill me, sometimes 4. And most of the time I get 1 hit by 2handers, even 1handers one hitting me aren't that unusual. And now you tell me archers do the same damage than 2hers? Bitch please. For some reason 2hers just seem to think they are suppoused to pwn everyone and nothing should be able to touch them.
E: Well yeah headshots are totally different though. Sometimes I don't even kill with 1 shot in the head, if they are wearing good helmet.
AND I STARTED TO THINK LIKE, IF I DIE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT IT WHAT WOULD OTHER PLAYERS DO?
This thread is fucking stupid.
Why?
Because archers suck, alot. They are seriously weak and shitty. I keep trying to play one and you CANNOT KILL ANYTHING.
Agi build archer can hit targets, but deals really low damage.
Str build archer cant hit shit, so deals no damage (duh)
Ive tried most builds with different amount of sucess and archer is the worst by faaaaaaaar.
One year ago when i started to play crpg, archers wasnt quite so bad, you could actually kill people.
But after a year of nerfs, naaaa its just frustrating to try.
I think 1% of my deaths are from arrows,
You make an excellent point, balance should not be around shit players.
Who the fuck dies from arrows? Probably shit players, tards without proper armor and a shield.
Why then you are asking for death arent you?
thus they are weak as shit and need a buff.
Also, get a shield.
rus bow archers with mw gear 2 shot me in 60 body armor and 7 IF, they do more damage than heavy crossbows, fire three times as fast and are probably more accurate too. sorry you don't have looms, levels, accuracy, build, awareness, and skill to be able to play your class closer to its "max potential" (which is where its horribly imbalanced)
Idiot.
cunt
Joe_schmoe with a 2hander is gonna 2shot you as well, he doesnt even need heirlooms.
Archers are good when they crutch on mw items, thus they are weak as shit and need a buff.
Also, get a shield. You wont get 2shot then
Come back when your balls have dropped irl son.
make rusbow cut dmg :DIt is cut damage.
come back when you got balls irl kiddo
öhöhö(click to show/hide)
You fucking inbreed moronic asshole, he gets 2 shotted without being able to fight back at all, how fucking retarded must you be to not be able to figure out that's slightly broken.
I lol'd. Just imagining the clap gif now.
Dickhead.
i lol'd, just imagine the facepalm gif now
Heavy board shield, 4shield skill.
best shield in game,
This is a perfect example of I am Paper, nerf scissors, rock is fine. - as already said some place in this thread.Rock paper scissors balance doesn't have any place in a game where you control a single character. Absolutely every single class should be able to kill every other class if played well.
I just looked through your past posts cos I don't even know who you are, and when i saw this, I realised that any argument you give is invalid, now, then, forever.
"We need more admins like nuffen, to enforce rules and teach the little children to behave like adults"
"Nuff" said.
boy
Rock paper scissors balance doesn't have any place in a game where you control a single character. Absolutely every single class should be able to kill every other class if played well.
Rock-paper-scissors is just nonsense.
That said, people should buy a shield before they start whining, but shield bump range should be increased somewhat, when you see an archer "push" the bow into someone's shield, that is just crap. And when someone like leoking with his 9 athl build, buckler and light gear can't catch an archer, that is just silly stuff. I would not mind if they were more effective in supporting roles (eg. shooting down horses and such) and perhaps had a better selection of 0 slot weapons but the kiting ability is over the top, esp. now with jumpshooting not yet patched on EU1, and nocking arrows on the run.
I mean, yeh, throwing + shield + sword did work well for countering them in old crpg but throwing hybrids took a good nerf from what I can see.
I agree that rock-paper-scissor is a horrible way to balance a game. It should be rock-rock-rock and then you fight and see who is the biggest motherfucking badass rock in the game.
I do not know what you mean.
That's why melee only servers always empty?
As long as people rush through open fields and don't use brains, it's impossible to balance this game. When 2h is slashing at enemies, he can kill quite many and fast. Archer needs to empty whole quiver to kill couple targets as it is now.
There's only couple archers that actually do well out there by doing accurate headshots and x10 times 2h/pole guys topping scoreboards in every map (or cavs). Still 2h/pole whine most.
It's more l2p problem than anything.
Did you see those good 2h players whining here in forums when archers were able to camp roofs and were much more stronger than nowdays? No you didn't. Only those same losers are still whining that can't think outside of box. There have always been ways to kill archers and good players know how to do it. You can't balance archer vs 2h to be "fair and balanced" in open fields 1vs1 battle. And if you can't figure out way to beat archer... maybe you should buy shield or something to help with _your_ problem.
Only way I can see that could be "fixed" here is that archers should have better backup weapons. They are forced to run away currently as builds don't allow investing in melee skills enough. After that we can talk about nerfing ranged side, like limiting amount of arrows etc.
I see 2h/pole guys talking about that archers should be there as support role. Well.. why don't we switch this thing around and think it like... maybe 2h/pole should be that support? Move with shielders, kill cavs and stop solo rushing.
Or do you know any real life battles in history where 2h guys were rushing in front and killed horde or archers without problems? That doesn't happen even in hollywood movies. It's always shielders first or some backstabbing ninja action behind in archer lines.
As long as kiting is possible, archery will never be balanced.
Kiting makes archers the hardest class to kill in a common situation for all other classes with no exceptions. Currently archers have bad killing power, except when it comes to people that try to kill them, and that makes them very powerful as enemies can spend minutes trying to kill an archer.
Bigger explanation of what i wrote, but yeah i agree completely. I mostly just give up trying to catch archers, and avoid them. Since if i run away from him, he chases me and shots me. If i chase him, and he is faster. I will just get kited, shot and die. So i think they are fine 1v1 against every infantry. Cav is a natural counter class if they are in the open, and that is their only real counter. Shielders is hard to kill for them, but they are very heavy. So they will nearly never be able to catch an archer.
Or do you know any real life battles in history where 2h guys were rushing in front and killed horde or archers without problems?
Or do you know any real life battles in history where 2h guys were rushing in front and killed horde or archers without problems
I think ranged should do a shit ton of damage to cav to be honest, makes sense as a counter
so what you jarheads are suggesting is for someone who wears just a tunic and a bow with arrows is supposed to run as fast as someone with medium armor and a big sword?
Yes actually, because arrow would do fuck all to the guy with a 2h, because the guy with a 2h was wearing plate armor, they got rid of shield when someone figured that you could wear your shield all over your body and use your other to mess the fucker in front ever more efficiently.
If you point out Agincourt, you should inform yourself.
Besides from the micro 1v1 occasions, archers have limited efficiency in battle. A good cav or good melee player can show it's efficiency much faster in the battle and turn the tides of battle to his team's favor.
Deny it or accept it, truth is not a democracy.
it is xbow boltpwned hahaha
pwned hahaha10 pages late, bro.
Truth. While archer is spamming 10 arrows at one target (misses+hits), melee have already killed bunch of enemies. Archers as now are mostly softening targets and maybe killstealing few that are low in health.It's all archers were in the middle ages, support, they never slaughtered giant amounts of plated knights. (Like some people suggest happened at Agincourt.)
And that preferring earlier to agincourt is quite hilarious. In that battle knights rushed open fields in mud without proper cav support and died just like they should do in this game as well if they act like that.
Well why don't you do so then? It actually works in this game.
It's all archers were in the middle ages, support, they never slaughtered giant amounts of plated knights. (Like some people suggest happened at Agincourt.)
Told people archer with mallet was :realism: but they made legolasssxxx clone instead.
So... give archers way to be at least decent in melee and then you can talk about making archery more support role as some think it should be. Currently, if you do build with enough agility to take wpf in both archery and melee, you can't do decent damage in either because of low str and limited wpf/slots. And if you happen to go with higher str that actually _can_ damage enemies, you are greatly limited in slots, can't have melee wpf at all (if you want to hit targets with higher PD bows) and can't have enough PS to go through semi-decent armours
Now that I actually AM an archer, I can tell you that all the bad excuses made by archers about how hard it is, how they should be able to run, oh it takes so many arrows to kill.
They Are all just bad excuses. And that is it. People DROP when shot by arrows in battle. I never had to shoot goretooth more than 3-4 times and he died. Or PorkSword. Or any other platecrutch. And so help them god they didn't get headshot, because you'll never survive two arrows if one is a headshot.
For an archer as good as aderyn (good prediction, awesome shot), he doesn't need to make these arguments. But he LIKES to kite everyone, which is fine by all means. Do what he likes, whatever. But he also shouldn't be able to do soooo much damage. Sooo SOOOO much damage.
I always kind of jokingly ragged on archers, but now that I am one... hahahahahahahaha it's all true!
Damage and speed, One but not the other. Currently you get both with a MW rus.
EAT SHIT BITCH!
it's a bolt ...
and please to all stupid inf without shield who try to catch archers with low athlétics ... dont be so stupid and think about team play or stay at cover instead take so much risk ... juste for after cry about archery ...
just learn to use your brain !!!
I don't think you get it. You can have 8 athletics and light-medium body armor and have no chance in hell of catching an archer. If you have a shield, you are already half as fast as any typical rus bow build, no matter your build. Its impossible. Its broken. Its one of the biggest complaints in the game right now.
oh god, so shitty, i gave up before lvl20, cant kill anyone
oh god, so shitty, i gave up before lvl20, cant kill anyone
Why Im not retiring as an archer anymore. Im gonna loom all my stuff as a 2 hander instead, making archers my primary target. The class is going to bleed so much that the devs will be forced to buff it, so that when crpg is finnaly done I'll return in my true form and destroy the game.
bahahaha you aint killin nothing but time silly archer boy
If I can kill you lot with a simple mace and 3 ps on a duel, I can do a lot more as a proper 2hander.
Nerf ranged,
Sick and tired of these skinless classes ruining everything great about this game. It's not just the the enemy range but the friendly as well.
No, they complain about archers period...You can be kited, big deal...don't chase him.
If you're the last guy left tough shit.
I have yet to see this horde of magical "Rus bow builds" destroying game balance.
I'm not gonna parse that whole thing and answer each point.
Don't chase him, go fight somebody else. I rarely get killed by arrows...I've only been playing a few months, but I've logged a shit ton of hours and I have never had to deal with two archers kiting me like you describe (and if they did I have throwing axes so I might be in a better position). I'm a shielder ...it does happen I know, but not with any amount of regularity.
The only time I even notice archers is when I get shot in the face and 1 shotted, and whining is the last thing on my mind, I'm usually thinking "nice shot".
Ok let's not chase him... and ? How is that going to solve anything ? You know if you don't chase archers they will come after you and shoot you down anyway.
Don't chase him, go fight somebody else.
Callahan, I'd say strength builds are overpowered, but the majority of EU player base disagrees with that sentiment because they don't have very many good strength builds over there.
I'll continue to enjoy crutching with my 36 strength melee character until then (so easy).
HOWEVER, that point is irrelevent to the discussion at hand.
and if you read closely you proved kafein correct. Kafein is right about quite a few things he said. Anyways, toodles~
NERF RANGED NOW!
cylopside i think your full of shit.No, it definitely takes 5 arrows, sometimes 4. I know that by testing against someone with those stats in particular. This is with a MW rus bow and MW bodkins, 6 PD, 172 WPF from 10 to 15 meters.
I dont even 5 shot a person with full hp shooting him in the chest if he's 8+ IF and 70+ armor :/
And if I dont kill him, there's just no chance in hell you are.
I just think certain "classes" or playstyles should have advantages.
I can't even hope to kill a cav guy with my one handed weapon unless he runs into a wall or something.
I don't think "balance" is always necessary in every single instance.
Do you know how many swings it takes a one handed user to kill a str/armor crutching 2 handed guy?
And he can one shot me with his 30 str and +3 weapon.
If he is indulging in maul douchebaggery I can't even hope to block him.
They seem the most vocal about nerfing everything but themselves. I think they are overpowered, but I'm not gonna scream for nerfs.
There are way more 2 handers than anything
and getting shot is annoying.
Thats why they whine.
Actually if we limit ourselves to stat changes I think archers should hit stronger against low armor and have better long range damage output, but not be unkillable mosquitos like they are now. Make archers the real, flexible soldiers they were in the middle ages, softening the enemy with arrows then taking their sidearms to finish the job. Make medium armor archer hybrids viable and nerf kiting-archery-peasants to the ground. That's all I want. Realism, fun and balance, this time actually all agreeing with each other.
Kafein, I'll bet that people would still whine about archery then, more than anything else.Indeed
Meh, I kite all the time