Author Topic: nerf archers  (Read 13903 times)

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Offline Ninja_Khorin

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #135 on: June 19, 2012, 12:46:14 am »
+2
I agree that rock-paper-scissor is a horrible way to balance a game. It should be rock-rock-rock and then you fight and see who is the biggest motherfucking badass rock in the game.

Offline Cup1d

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #136 on: June 19, 2012, 12:49:34 am »
0
I agree that rock-paper-scissor is a horrible way to balance a game. It should be rock-rock-rock and then you fight and see who is the biggest motherfucking badass rock in the game.


That's why melee only servers always empty?

Offline Ninja_Khorin

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #137 on: June 19, 2012, 12:55:29 am »
+4

That's why melee only servers always empty?
I do not know what you mean.

What I meant to say that everyone should have a basically equal opportunity to kill anyone regardless of their gear or build. That's true balance.

Offline Aderyn

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #138 on: June 19, 2012, 01:10:30 am »
+1
When your allowed to customize your own build, balance is hard as fuck.
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Offline bonekuukkeli

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #139 on: June 19, 2012, 02:18:44 am »
0
As long as people rush through open fields and don't use brains, it's impossible to balance this game. When 2h is slashing at enemies, he can kill quite many and fast. Archer needs to empty whole quiver to kill couple targets as it is now.

There's only couple archers that actually do well out there by doing accurate headshots and x10 times 2h/pole guys topping scoreboards in every map (or cavs). Still 2h/pole whine most.

It's more l2p problem than anything.

Did you see those good 2h players whining here in forums when archers were able to camp roofs and were much more stronger than nowdays? No you didn't. Only those same losers are still whining that can't think outside of box. There have always been ways to kill archers and good players know how to do it. You can't balance archer vs 2h to be "fair and balanced" in open fields 1vs1 battle. And if you can't figure out way to beat archer... maybe you should buy shield or something to help with _your_ problem.

Only way I can see that could be "fixed" here is that archers should have better backup weapons. They are forced to run away currently as builds don't allow investing in melee skills enough. After that we can talk about nerfing ranged side, like limiting amount of arrows etc.

I see 2h/pole guys talking about that archers should be there as support role. Well.. why don't we switch this thing around and think it like... maybe 2h/pole should be that support? Move with shielders, kill cavs and stop solo rushing.

Or do you know any real life battles in history where 2h guys were rushing in front and killed horde or archers without problems? That doesn't happen even in hollywood movies. It's always shielders first or some backstabbing ninja action behind in archer lines.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 02:25:15 am by bonekuukkeli »

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #140 on: June 19, 2012, 02:30:21 am »
+1
yep you're right, for the sake of balance the archer needs to be the most powerful 1 vs 1 class, the fastest class, the most damaging class, the best counter to infantry, cav, and ranged, and the class that gets the most powerful based on how many people are on one team of that class

as more archers start leveling up past 30 and fully looming their rus bow bodkin/tatar kids out, the game is getting unbelievably worse
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Offline _GTX_

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #141 on: June 19, 2012, 02:41:28 am »
0
As long as people rush through open fields and don't use brains, it's impossible to balance this game. When 2h is slashing at enemies, he can kill quite many and fast. Archer needs to empty whole quiver to kill couple targets as it is now.

There's only couple archers that actually do well out there by doing accurate headshots and x10 times 2h/pole guys topping scoreboards in every map (or cavs). Still 2h/pole whine most.

It's more l2p problem than anything.

Did you see those good 2h players whining here in forums when archers were able to camp roofs and were much more stronger than nowdays? No you didn't. Only those same losers are still whining that can't think outside of box. There have always been ways to kill archers and good players know how to do it. You can't balance archer vs 2h to be "fair and balanced" in open fields 1vs1 battle. And if you can't figure out way to beat archer... maybe you should buy shield or something to help with _your_ problem.

Only way I can see that could be "fixed" here is that archers should have better backup weapons. They are forced to run away currently as builds don't allow investing in melee skills enough. After that we can talk about nerfing ranged side, like limiting amount of arrows etc.

I see 2h/pole guys talking about that archers should be there as support role. Well.. why don't we switch this thing around and think it like... maybe 2h/pole should be that support? Move with shielders, kill cavs and stop solo rushing.

Or do you know any real life battles in history where 2h guys were rushing in front and killed horde or archers without problems? That doesn't happen even in hollywood movies. It's always shielders first or some backstabbing ninja action behind in archer lines.

first of all realism is not a way to balance c-rpg. But if we wanna go that way.... sure. If u get bumped by a cav, there is 50% chance u will be unable to fight. Which ofc depends on the speed and weight of the horse. :lol:

And u really wanna say that the 2h and polearms should be support roles ? The 2 most aggresive and most consistent heavy damage class? The ones who have to stay at the frontline, and because of that is constantly in danger, not only from 1 class, but pretty much all classes in the game.

The archers does not have a big ass 2h weapon like polearms and 2hs. But he does have a big advantage over 2h and polearms, range. Because of that range, he is not in an as big danger as the 2h and polearms. The only thing which can threaten him on a consistent basis is other archers, cav (if horrible positioned) and xbows.

Archers in melee is fine, they can defeat an enemy if it is needed. Mostly they just need to hold them of until someone else comes and help. So i dont see why archers should have better hybrid options than every other class. A big and heavy weapon is maybe not the best idea on an archer aswell, since it will decrease ur running speed. One of the best defenses and archer has against 2h, polearm and shielders is simple running. Do u know how hard it is to catch an archer? I have tried being slower than archer a million times, which means i will never be able to catch him, unless he gets distracted. So i would say thats pretty damn good 1v1 options right there.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #142 on: June 19, 2012, 02:46:06 am »
+1
As long as kiting is possible, archery will never be balanced.

Kiting makes archers the hardest class to kill in a common situation for all other classes with no exceptions. Currently archers have bad killing power, except when it comes to people that try to kill them, and that makes them very powerful as enemies can spend minutes trying to kill an archer.

Offline _GTX_

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #143 on: June 19, 2012, 02:48:46 am »
0
As long as kiting is possible, archery will never be balanced.

Kiting makes archers the hardest class to kill in a common situation for all other classes with no exceptions. Currently archers have bad killing power, except when it comes to people that try to kill them, and that makes them very powerful as enemies can spend minutes trying to kill an archer.

Bigger explanation of what i wrote, but yeah i agree completely. I mostly just give up trying to catch archers, and avoid them. Since if i run away from him, he chases me and shots me. If i chase him, and he is faster. I will just get kited, shot and die. So i think they are fine 1v1 against every infantry. Cav is a natural counter class if they are in the open, and that is their only real counter. Shielders is hard to kill for them, but they are very heavy. So they will nearly never be able to catch an archer.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #144 on: June 19, 2012, 03:36:24 am »
0
Bigger explanation of what i wrote, but yeah i agree completely. I mostly just give up trying to catch archers, and avoid them. Since if i run away from him, he chases me and shots me. If i chase him, and he is faster. I will just get kited, shot and die. So i think they are fine 1v1 against every infantry. Cav is a natural counter class if they are in the open, and that is their only real counter. Shielders is hard to kill for them, but they are very heavy. So they will nearly never be able to catch an archer.

It's actually worse than that. Cav requires at least something to hide behind in order to catch archers unaware. If it's just open plains, horses die to arrows before they reach the archers, except if outnumbering by a large margin. That's why I wouldn't call cav a proper counter to archers.

Offline bruce

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #145 on: June 19, 2012, 03:40:12 am »
+1
Or do you know any real life battles in history where 2h guys were rushing in front and killed horde or archers without problems?

Archer formations when engaged did not "run away and shoot on the run", but rather stood and fought in melee. Or tried to run away outright, if the battle was lost.

But most battles were decided by infantry combat in the end. Archers when placed in good defensive positions were a great counter to cavalry (although, it did demand good defensive positions); if they could position themselves at the flanks of the cavalry charges, it was very effective. This tactic was often used by the English during the hundreds year war. Of course, archers caught in the open and unprepared were mincemeat (again, a lesson learned in the hundred year war).

As for 2h/polearms, they largely came with plate; onehanded weapons were not so effective at defeating it. Men at arms and knights fighting dismounted in the age of plate were using them very often.

No battle was won by archers running away and shooting on the run.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:03:18 am by bruce »
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #146 on: June 19, 2012, 04:28:07 am »
0
It's fun that 18/21 and 18/24 builds are faster than everyone but cav but still has the power to two-shot medium infantry if they have their stuff loomed, even when the infantry has loomed armor and gloves. Damage is fine, the endless kiting is not.
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Offline Aderyn

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #147 on: June 19, 2012, 04:49:49 am »
-2
so what you jarheads are suggesting is for someone who wears just a tunic and a bow with arrows is supposed to run as fast as someone with medium armor and a big sword?

Get real.

Dont whine because you can't catch archers with your precious str build that tears everything up in melee.

Here's a hint for those of you without a brain: With full rusbow/bodkin(that's the LIGHTEST of arrows)/pickaxe and a tunic, strawhat and boot wrapping the total weight is 9.1. If YOUR total weight is under that and you have the same athletics then you are fast and can no longer be kited.

Fix'd.

Now stop your moaning kids, this is getting old.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:54:24 am by Aderyn »
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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #148 on: June 19, 2012, 04:53:16 am »
0
Realism is overrated.
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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: nerf archers
« Reply #149 on: June 19, 2012, 04:59:00 am »
+2
almost no melee classes can afford to wear the lightest tunic, because they actually have to fight in melee and get closer to archers, 1 crosssbow or arrow or a single 1 hander left swing will instantly kill you with that light of a kit.  i did 15/24 with tunic over mail type armor and every ranged class in the game was still able to accelerate and kite me with absolutely no chance of catching up.

not balanced

arrows need 4-5x more weight, bows should have at least triple the weight, thats a start maybe
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