nerf archers

[Aderyn]

Well, NERF CAV before nerfing anything else. Destroy the cataphracts, the warhorses, the arabian warhorses. Destroy them all.

Then we can talk about nerfing range (wich is the only thing that can kill decent cav)

Dont see why range is such a problem anyways, it's not like every archer is decent enough to even hit the target. There's like 4-5 on the NA server that can even remotely aim.

In unrelated news: Stop whining smoothrich. That's getting old too.

[Bobthehero]

Or do you know any real life battles in history where 2h guys were rushing in front and killed horde or archers without problems

Yes actually, because arrow would do fuck all to the guy with a 2h, because the guy with a 2h was wearing plate armor, they got rid of shield when someone figured that you could wear your shield all over your body and use your other to mess the fucker in front ever more efficiently.

If you point out Agincourt, you should inform yourself.

[Smoothrich]

I think ranged should do a shit ton of damage to cav to be honest, makes sense as a counter and I think horses need stat nerfs too so they aren't so damn survivable and maneuverable still and punish rider's mistakes, but I'm not "whining" I'm simply speaking for a large amount of the playerbase who are sick of the creeping power of ranged, namely rus bows and throwers.

More nerfs head towards melee classes then they ever do to ranged or cav anymore, something I don't really get, because cav and ranged make this mod much shittier to play when there is an abundance of them on the server.  Though a spam of long polearms is pretty much just as bad, so I'm glad that's being addressed.  Not speaking as a biased 2hander or w/e, they don't fuck up the server when theres too many of them at once at all, if anything they are just the easiest prey for every ranged, cav, and long polearm class

[Gurnisson]

I think ranged should do a shit ton of damage to cav to be honest, makes sense as a counter

True, archers should be strong in the damage, and not only against cav, infantry too. Arrows should hurt, quite badly. Problem is that they get the great kiting abilities on the side of the already good damage.

so what you jarheads are suggesting is for someone who wears just a tunic and a bow with arrows is supposed to run as fast as someone with medium armor and a big sword?

No, we don't.

We suggest that one shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it too. Either good kiting ability or good damage, not both like you get with 18/21 or 18/24 loomed rus + bod. Vanilla archery is quite piss, but considering the amount of looms in cRPG at the moment, you need to balance after looms too. I guess one could buff bow/arrow damage overall while removing damage gain from arrow and bow heirlooming (accuracy, draw speed and good ammo count increase instead to make it good still)
2-3 shot fest while still being able to kite almost everyone but cav is quite ridiculous, just saying. Either increase arrow/bow weight or buff accuracy and draw speed while nerfing damage, I.E. making 8 PD builds dishing out the same damage as those 18/21 & 18/24 builds does now while still keeping or even increasing the accuracy, but making the amount of athletics generally lower. Yes, one could still make the kiting builds, but they would be weaker than they are now. There would actually be a choice, not just the regular min-max 18/21 & 18/24 that gives enough damage and enough speed to kite everything but cav and extreme ninja builds.

Also, I'm no strength build. 20/18 with 9.6 weight body armor is not what you call a slow tank. I still die mostly to archers (and rightly so being a piker, I'm not complaining about that fact but don't give me the 'get a shield' argument, since I can't because of the cRPG changes ), but I still think it's quite a bit overpowered that those loomed archers rarely have to use more than 2-3 arrows on me with my lordly set when I often have to use 2 poleaxe swings/pike stabs to kill an archer.

If there were no bow looms around, archers would be without a doubt underpowered. With all those lvl >31 with fully loomed archery set archery is overpowered if anything. The gain from heirlooming archery gear is quite a lot better than what you get with melee weapons. But the damage is bearable, just nerf the running speed somewhat.

[bonekuukkeli]

Yes actually, because arrow would do fuck all to the guy with a 2h, because the guy with a 2h was wearing plate armor, they got rid of shield when someone figured that you could wear your shield all over your body and use your other to mess the fucker in front ever more efficiently.

If you point out Agincourt, you should inform yourself.

Well why don't you do so then? It actually works in this game. I played archer in my last gen, xbow before that (and 2h/pole before that if you want to know) and when I tried to shoot let's say.... vincent_ruth or other guy that always run in plate. I could shoot him like 5 times with MW bow and bodkins but still he kept running at me and I had no hope to just stand there and shoot, I could not fight back in melee (worthless melee weapon of archer vs plated flamberger....).... how you want to balance it out? Archer should just bend over and take it deep? If you use light armour, you can dodge better and it's not really that hard.

And archer doing 2-3 hits usually have to shoot like 10 times to make all those hits IF target is dodging even a little a bit or using enviroment. Sure, open field without protection and less than medium armored 2h running in straight line at archer.... easy prey. But is it archer that's op then? No, it's just bad player at 2h side. And sure, there's few good archers out there that can hit more accurately. But there's also good 2h players out there that you want to avoid in battles as melee. It can't be balanced, because players don't have same playing skill. When I play as 2h, I don't rush in archer tower without support unless I know I can sneak my way in. I don't go and try to kill that best 2h player 1vs1 because I know it would most likely be bad idea unless I'm lucky.

And... why I don't have any problems killing archers / xbows when I play melee? I'm just basic average player, but still have zero problems with it. I don't want to be OP out there and rush through open fields to kill those archer lines in other side (what some plated guys are actually doing in most maps and doing very well in it... why I don't see them whining here?). Also... I can catch up most archers when I play 7-8 ath builds. They can run as long as they want, but when they turn even a little bit I can take "shorter way" and catch them with ease. If not... who cares? Let them run and go around that building, archer is most likely there. Sure I die more easily if I solo charge without shield or plate, but that's how it should be. That's thing you need to consider yourself if it's worth doing it. Just like it's worth considering if you go toe to toe against that best cav or 2h player in server.

You 2h players just think that you should be able to run through open fields and have equal grounds against archers? What about using tactics and brains even for couple seconds?

I would like to know, maybe poll or something about this. Is it only str based NA players whining here or also EU players that in my eyes and experience don't have any problems with archers. Well I don't have, my friends don't have and we have been playing both melee _and_ archer. It's all just down to tactics.

[Ronin]

Besides from the micro 1v1 occasions, archers have limited efficiency in battle. A good cav or good melee player can show it's efficiency much faster in the battle and turn the tides of battle to his team's favor.
Deny it or accept it, truth is not a democracy.

[bonekuukkeli]

Besides from the micro 1v1 occasions, archers have limited efficiency in battle. A good cav or good melee player can show it's efficiency much faster in the battle and turn the tides of battle to his team's favor.
Deny it or accept it, truth is not a democracy.

Truth. While archer is spamming 10 arrows at one target (misses+hits), melee have already killed bunch of enemies. Archers as now are mostly softening targets and maybe killstealing few that are low in health.

And that preferring earlier to agincourt is quite hilarious. In that battle knights rushed open fields in mud without proper cav support and died just like they should do in this game as well if they act like that.

[Ubereem]

it is xbow bolt

pwned hahaha

[HardRice]

pwned hahaha

10 pages late, bro.

Truth. While archer is spamming 10 arrows at one target (misses+hits), melee have already killed bunch of enemies. Archers as now are mostly softening targets and maybe killstealing few that are low in health.

And that preferring earlier to agincourt is quite hilarious. In that battle knights rushed open fields in mud without proper cav support and died just like they should do in this game as well if they act like that.

It's all archers were in the middle ages, support, they never slaughtered giant amounts of plated knights. (Like some people suggest happened at Agincourt.)

[Sagar]

Nerf them hard. It is really funny that some archer can measure with medieval knight (I know its a game) but balance is really ridiculous. When come to close combat archers can only do one thing - run or they will be slaughter by knights. Also knight in heavy armor is not static target so a lots of arrows cant penetrate heavy armor or they just bounce of it.

[Bobthehero]

Well why don't you do so then? It actually works in this game.

If only... upkeep and a slug like speed means that either I'll be broke or that the archer will run and gun, because god forbid he actually takes less arrows for a proper melee weapon, I know I rarely if ever use up my 2nd quiver on my archer alt (except for sieges) before I am engaged in melee, and even then, I have 70 wpf and a long arming sword defend myself, used to be a 2h, before I respected.

Congrats on catching up with archer with 7-8 ath, it must be a very tiring and very tough exercise

[Cyclopsided]

Archery is really hard and should be buffed. I mean, It's really hard to click on enemies.
photographic proof from my second day playing as an archer.

(click to show/hide)

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admittedly this is a level 30 character with a rus bow.

[Smoothrich]

It's all archers were in the middle ages, support, they never slaughtered giant amounts of plated knights. (Like some people suggest happened at Agincourt.)

Ironically, the english archers did slaughter a giant amount of plated knights at Agincourt.  With melee weapons!  Daggers and hammers and mallets and the like.

[bruce]

Told people archer with mallet was :realism: but they made legolasssxxx clone instead.

[Darkkarma]

-1 for saying "le" repeatedly.