Can someone say what is wrong with long espada? What is changed in patch about it?
They must have intended the Paramerion to have 30 cut, and just made a database mistake or something. As it stands, it makes the other 1-slot 1h swords obsolete.30 cut ? lol Come on, no need to render it useless now. The cav sword has more cut than nordic loomed (36), there's no problem with Para having same cut as nordic as long as they just nerf the speed and /or pierce + add price + difficulty.
30 cut ? lol Come on, no need to render it useless now. The cav sword has more cut than nordic loomed (36), there's no problem with Para having same cut as nordic as long as they just nerf the speed and /or pierce + add price + difficulty.
- 1 speed, increase in diff and + 2K and more in priceor +5K or 6K. just dont tuch dmg :D
or +5K or 6K. just dont tuch dmg :DI don't mind. I'm already overpaying for my cata just for roleplay style reasons. Your sarcasm sucks btw.
or +5K or 6K. just dont tuch dmg :D
Ok. sorry. I'm quit
Price doesn't even factor into decisions for anyone that has been playing over a year; you can sell 1 loom point and finance upkeep on whatever gear you want. All a high price does it make the item inaccessible to new players.Bullshit, i play for over 2 years, have 40k and pay 3k upkeep just for my cata, if i max all my items i can lose over 7k in one round.
The game is no fun when one item in a given type is vastly superior to all others. Remember like 2 years ago, when every single shielder was Side Sword+Huscarl? Soon it will be like that, but Paramerion+Hand Pavise.
REposting :So what you're suggesting is having it be slightly overpowered instead of quite a bit overpowered? Yeah, if they're gonna change it they should just balance it, not make it slightly amazing or really amazing.
Either make it's price 9-10k And / OR (8-9k then) decrease the speed by -1 , like i posted in the patch topic =). Can also drop the pierce damage by 1 i suppose , but i'd keep the price within 7-9k then. Oh and yeah being a longer 1hander it can definitely be 13+ difficulty .
Bullshit, i play for over 2 years, have 40k and pay 3k upkeep just for my cata, if i max all my items i can lose over 7k in one round.
Bullshit, i play for over 2 years, have 40k and pay 3k upkeep just for my cata, if i max all my items i can lose over 7k in one round.Dude, I'm a ht, I got no real chars to retire with, and even for me upkeep is only a minor pain in the ass.
why then don't we see armies of plated 2h heroes in gothic/milanese or a huge percentage of heavy cav, or lancers with extremely expensive side weapons ?
Because ppl don't want to be plated heroes in gothic armor nor heavy cav?Hey i know you, you like to be a fast agi whore basically ( no offense, just a term) . =)
People keep saying how upkeep doesn't matter or work at all nowadays, however why then don't we see armies of plated 2h heroes in gothic/milanese or a huge percentage of heavy cav, or lancers with extremely expensive side weapons ? Instead people try to min -max their items for upkeep and weight penalties , which both work, we can assume. I can only speak for Eu community, of course.Medium armor is the best armor, would still be the best armor if upkeep wasn't there, light cav in general beats heavy cav, and we had a flood of lancers before insane flood of hoplites. And to your later on post about heavy armor and upkeep patch, pretty sure the upkeep was much more extreme back then, and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a marketplace, and even more importantly pretty sure people couldn't block that great and plate hadn't been nerfed to current levels back then.
Medium armor is the best armor, would still be the best armor if upkeep wasn't there, light cav in general beats heavy cav, and we had a flood of lancers before insane flood of hoplites. And to your later on post about heavy armor and upkeep patch, pretty sure the upkeep was much more extreme back then, and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a marketplace, and even more importantly pretty sure people couldn't block that great and plate hadn't been nerfed to current levels back then.yet a str build in heavy armor (especially as 2h or a poleaxe user) can be really OP atm.
yet a str build in heavy armor (especially as 2h or a poleaxe user) can be really OP atm.I agree that it should be a rival, but it shouldn't be better, just a rival, this is were we disagree (at least looking at your suggestion), and upkeep isn't and shouldn't be a balancing tool.
Yes, and an str or an agi build in medium armor can be more OP atm with a 2h or long polearm, and 1h sucks hard with plate.
Anyways, we're derailing,i hope you guys can at least agree with my 2 solutions for balancing paramerion ? I was going to loom it no matter what not knowing the stats but i really like the fact that it can be very good top tier weapon to rival nordic , scimitar, cav sword etc.
I agree that it should be a rival, but it shouldn't be better, just a rival, this is were we disagree (at least looking at your suggestion), and upkeep isn't and shouldn't be a balancing tool.Of course, it should keep it's current stats. I'd just rather have them nerf it's speed and/or pierce damag then the main (cut) damage , to keep it on par. Price is still a factor though,i think it's either way too good for it's current price.
upkeep isn't and shouldn't be a balancing tool.
Looks to me like this weapon should be the Long Espada for people who want cut damage instead of stab.Reducing 1p from the stab and 1 from the speed would make it a nordic champ with one more pierce and one more length...
Increasing price to 10k; dropping 1p from stab (and maybe also 1 speed) should make it balanced. Reduce stats any more than that and it just becomes a very mediocre NCS.
Also, I'm going to lobby that the 12 difficulty be kept because I don't like not being able to use a lot of one-handers on my agi swashbuckler. :oops: :oops: :oops:
Reducing 1p from the stab and 1 from the speed would make it a nordic champ with one more pierce and one more length...
And it would be more expensive.k, upkeep doesn't really mean shit imo.
k, upkeep doesn't really mean shit imo.
Then the Simple Sword should be buffed to similar stats of the Italian Sword.I agree, the simple sword should be buffed.
It's clearly inferior in every way except for upkeep.
Which doesn't mean shit.
I agree, the simple sword should be buffed.
How about :
96 speed , same dmg , + 1-2k in price ?
How about :
96 speed , same dmg , + 1-2k in price ?
How about :If it got -1 pierce I'd be fine with that.
96 speed , same dmg , + 1-2k in price ?
If it got -1 pierce I'd be fine with that.
Looks to me like this weapon should be the Long Espada for people who want cut damage instead of stab.
Increasing price to 10k; dropping 1p from stab (and maybe also 1 speed) should make it balanced.
This does not make any sense. the Long Espada has very close damage between cut and pierce its also very fast.
I'm not talking about the numbers themselves. I'm talking about the numbers in comparison to the other one-handed swords. Look at the Italian Sword, Nordic swords, Arming swords, etc. The LEE has more pierce and less cut. That's why I said it's based around stabbing. Also, 99 speed comes pretty standard for a large deal of one-handed swords. It's not exceptionally fast.
So the only its only like a Long Espada because its 103 length and 12 str.
It's like the LEE in that it has long (and exactly the same) length, similar weight, same difficulty, similar speed. The main difference is that it trades off 5p on thrust for 5c on swing.
Not to mention if you did put the price tag at 10k and dropped one pierce and one speed then you have a sword that is 1 length longer, 1 more pierce, and 1 less weight required than the NCS for only 50 more gold in upkeep seems redundant.
The Waki is 6k more expensive than the Short Falchion and is very arguably not worth it for the price even to the point of being inferior to the short falchion. This mod has its share of redundancies already. Whatever.
1 Length isn't much of anything. It wouldn't even enter my mind as a consideration to not use a weapon because it has 1 less length than I want. Weight is a double edged sword in that lighter weight lets you move around more quickly but heavier weight reduces the chance of being block-stunned. Neither higher nor lower weight is inherently better. It's a matter of preference. I can understand the 1 pierce, though, but is 1 point of damage on a shitty stab animation that everyone knows is a death trap really worth more than 50 gold? I wouldn't think so, honestly.
It might make sense to bump it up to 10.5k or 11k for having 12 difficulty though.
How about :
96 speed , same dmg , + 1-2k in price ?
I see 3 ways of balancing it , each a bit different :
1) -2 speed, + 1-2 k price. Makes it the second best cavalry sword after Arabian Cav.
2) -1 speed, -1 cut +1-2k in price. Weapon will be in between nordic champ and knightly arming.
3) keep the speed, -2 cut , - 1 pierce , +1k in price. Would be a mediocre damage elite scimi upgrade with decent stab. Kind of a meh option tbh.
3.2) keep the speed, -1 cut, -2 pierce , +1-2k in price . Same as above, just less pierce instead of cut
# 1 is still my personal preference, i'd say, or #2.
Spahtion is a copy of Knightly arming sword, weighting 0.1 more, so Paramerion could be a copy of Nordic champ sword, with 1 more length, 0.1 more weight and 1 less pierce - point of the Paramerion doesn't look especially sharp :PIt just has lesser pierce than nordic champion. 1 length is not making difference at all. I would simply use nordic champ instead.
Nordic Champion's Sword(click to show/hide)
current Paramerion(click to show/hide)
new Paramerion(click to show/hide)
I would simply use nordic champ instead.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Paramerion has:
+1 length
+1 speed
+2 pierce
- 2665 cost
-1 difficulty
+ 0.1 weight
So here's another balancing idea for it :
-2 speed,
- 1 pierce
+ ~ 0.5 weight
+ 1.5-2.5k price
+ 1 cut
The sword was designed to be a mix between the western arming sword and the eastern scimitars/sabers. It definitely has more stabbing potential than a NCS imo, curved blade doesn't necessarily mean bad stabbing capabilities.
http://forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15575&start=10
And it surely needs to keep it's cutting power as well.
So here's another balancing idea for it :
-2 speed,
- 1 pierce
+ ~ 0.5 weight
+ 1.5-2.5k price
+ 1 cut
Will make it a top-tier choice different both from Nordic and Knightly arming, slower than both, worse pierce than knightly arming , but 1 more cut than NCS and 1 more length (makes sense looking at the blade). Would be an interesting option for infantry 1hers as well as cavalry (still worse than the arabian cav sword obviously).
P.S. @ CrazyCracka no offense but you've just wasted a significant amount of forum space repeating the obvious which was stated about 200 times during the last two days.
visitors can't see pics , please register or loginTake out the buttplug and think. I'm only suggesting, what have you proposed so far that was of any use ? Posting an overused meme picture won't make your argumentation better.
what have you proposed so far that was of any use ?
Paramerion could be a copy of Nordic champ sword, with 1 more length, 0.1 more weight and 1 less pierce - point of the Paramerion doesn't look especially sharp :P
new Paramerion(click to show/hide)
Para with this suggestion :
weight: 1.7
difficulty: 13 (15)
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 103
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 33 cut
slots: 1
Just admit that you want to have OP sword (and shield) and move along. And stop acting like a fucking retard.
Do you consider the weight difference a disadvantage ? As far as i remember , you won't feel the difference in blocking heavy weapons, will you ?
So please try again and point out what's wrong with my latest suggestion for stats ? HOW does it make the sword op ?
(click to show/hide)
and will you change the tone already, i don't feel like barking at another person on the internet for the whole evening.
Take out the buttplug
Heh, pro-tip: stun.Exactly what i meant- don't you still get stunned within the 1.2-~1.8 weight area ? The little bit extra weight was NOT intended as a buff and i don't think it would be anyway.
Here's your numbers.
Still dont see the problem? Then I can't help you.
pah all this bickering and arguing is a waste of time. Just do what I said, buff some other 1handers to put them on the same level as paramerion and call it a day.No, this is horrible, buffing "some" 1handers effectively shits on every other 1hander ingame.
Ujin, all your proposals for any form of rebalancing have left all the byz weaponry slightly OP but with the cost of the long espada, none of them have been balanced, at all.We're both going around in circles here, just look at the numbers mate.
Instead how about something like:
103 length
1.3 weight
14 difficulty
95 speed
23 pierce
33 cut
Price 9,5k
It'd make the weapon somewhat unique and not just a slightly better something else and wouldn't be nearly as OP as what you're proposing.
We're both going around in circles here, just look at the numbers mate.
You suggest to reduce the speed further , i suggest reducing the pierce damage instead and making the speed 96.We agree on the price and difficulty too.
2 pierce for 1 speed and somehow you think it's justifiable to claim that i want to have an OP weapon ? From someone elses' perspective your stats may look OP.
The 1h stab is hardly ever used by anybody including you for anything else than feinting, unless you're using a stab based 1h 2 pierce for 1 speed is a bad tradeoff.
From my perspective both options are viable, as well as what Falka posted before he got the idea that calling me a retard repeatedly will make him look smarter and as well as what i suggested on the previous pages.
It's all up to the balance team anyway, we're just fencing with words here basically.
I use the stab alot, especially in mass fights. If you don't believe me you can ask my clanmates . I actually find it quite important atm. I also use it from horseback.
No, this is horrible, buffing "some" 1handers effectively shits on every other 1hander ingame.
I use the stab alot, especially in mass fights. If you don't believe me you can ask my clanmates . I actually find it quite important atm. I also use it from horseback.
Are you serious, +1 cut for -1 pierce, bullshit.Hangus, please. You should have realized from when we fought each other on horseback that the stab is the best attack for 1h and 2h on horse.
Cav use 98% slash, on foot same.
-1 cut -1 speed and the weapon is balanced.
I don t talk about price.
I use "alot", seriously. BE honnest man ! You know it s not fair +1 cut for pierce nerf even with other stuff, for 1h cav it will be just the top 1 weapon. Cause of better cut, length. OTher thing are useless in 1h cav.
With pierce 1 dmg will not change anything, the only thing you need for 1 shoot other cav it s speed, and it s 99% when you use it on cav.
Hangus, please. You should have realized from when we fought each other on horseback that the stab is the best attack for 1h and 2h on horse.It is great on foot and from horseback already. Am I the only one having success with 1h thrust?
On foot it sucks though, buff 1h stab!
No, this is horrible, buffing "some" 1handers effectively shits on every other 1hander ingame.
I agree, the simple sword should be buffed.
It is great on foot and from horseback already. Am I the only one having success with 1h thrust?I also have success with 1h thrust on foot. That doesn't change that it's worse than the other stabs.
Are you serious, +1 cut for -1 pierce, bullshit.
Cav use 98% slash, on foot same.
-1 cut -1 speed and the weapon is balanced.
I don t talk about price.
I use "alot", seriously. BE honnest man ! You know it s not fair +1 cut for pierce nerf even with other stuff, for 1h cav it will be just the top 1 weapon. Cause of better cut, length. OTher thing are useless in 1h cav.
With pierce 1 dmg will not change anything, the only thing you need for 1 shoot other cav it s speed, and it s 99% when you use it on cav.
The idea of giving it any more cut in the first place is why everyone is calling you a retard, Ujin. Its overpowered because it has as much cut as a Nordic Champ sword along with being better in every other way. You are suggesting making it better then both the NCS AND Arabian Cavalry Sword in every way.You, Falka and Zlisch are barely "everyone", thank god . =)
I'd be ok with seeing it lose 3 speed and everything else staying the same. Makes it a better cav weapon then NCS or KAS, and a stabbier shorter version of ACS. Maybe 1 more stab damage.
You, Falka and Zlisch are barely "everyone", thank god . =)Ujin stop pretending like upkeep matters, also, everyone besides me, Falka, and Smooth disagree with you and just couldn't bother typing it.
Look at arabian cav sword and go cry "OP!!!" then, cause it's got 1 more cut , 3 more length and 2k cheaper than a NCS. If however you admit than the ACS is not OP, than i don't see how my last suggestion is bad, considering that the price will be on par with the top -tier weapons . The -2 speed -2 pierce is good enough , it'll be 1 point faster than arabian cav , but also 2 points shorter, which will mean that ACS is stilll the better cav weapon, while the NCS and KAS are both faster and only 1 point shorter.
Ujin stop pretending like upkeep matters, also, everyone besides me, Falka, and Smooth disagree with you and just couldn't bother typing it.You're right, i shouldn't waste even another second on you =).
Umm.. no ? -2 speed and -2 pierce, +2k price for +1 cut ?Ujin, I think you are making the mistake of taking the current stats into consideration when stating this. It is not -2 speed and -2 pierce, +2k price for +1 cut. It's stats are already a bit overpowered, it is not a balanced weapon to make those kind of changes. A bit from here to, to add here etc.
Btw, you should be all over the arabian cav sword stats then, cause according to your logic it's incredibly OP and much cheaper than nordic/knightly arming. Not TOO far away from the truth , though . =)
But still, the thrust attack should NOT be underestimated, both on foot and in cav fights.
In any case , again - this is only ONE of the possible suggestions for balacing this sword, there's multiple more. I think i'm done here and from now on will just patiently sit back, relax and see what the balancing team does to it in the next update.
Ujin stop pretending like upkeep matters, also, everyone besides me, Falka, and Smooth disagree with you and just couldn't bother typing it.Numbers do not matter...
You're right, i shouldn't waste even another second on you =).I'll miss you
Ujin, I think you are making the mistake of taking the current stats into consideration when stating this. It is not -2 speed and -2 pierce, +2k price for +1 cut. It's stats are already a bit overpowered, it is not a balanced weapon to make those kind of changes. A bit from here to, to add here etc.It's not balanced, therefore we can't.. balance it ? :? Look, if the the +1 cut really scares you that much , the simplest thing to do would be just reducing it's speed by 2 and increasing it's price. Really, i don't so much want to hold on to this specific suggestion rather than just talk theories here. I'm more interested in them finally fixing the goddamn helmet that i wanted to use :/.
As an arabian cav user, I find the sword's speed and lack of a good thrust as a big flaw. 1h cavalry is all about being faster than a lancer, and I didn't find it to my liking. It's too slow. It's price, I think, is fairly balanced (and abilities overall).
I'm going to post my own paramerion idea for the lulz. Lets see if I can make a good change.
Numbers do not matter...
I think i'm done here and from now on will just patiently sit back, relax and see what the balancing team does to it in the next update.
It's not balanced, therefore we can't.. balance it ? :? Look, if the the +1 cut really scares you that much , the simplest thing to do would be just reducing it's speed by 2 and increasing it's price. Really, i don't so much want to hold on to this specific suggestion rather than just talk theories here. I'm more interested in them finally fixing the goddamn helmet that i wanted to use :/.I don't know what made you think I said that we can't balance it. You just offered the idea of giving it some cut at the cost of some other stats. But the weapon already has beefed stats. It was my comment on this:
Umm.. no ? -2 speed and -2 pierce, +2k price for +1 cut ?
Btw, arabian cavalry sword's speed can be both a blessing and a curse. I actually enjoyed using slow weapons from horseback alot, especially loved the destrier + bardiche combo =).I never tried this on cRPG, but I think I can trust your judgement on that :)
I don't know what made you think I said that we can't balance it. You just offered the idea of giving it some cut at the cost of some other stats. But the weapon already has beefed stats. It was my comment on this:
Imagine a 1h sword with this stats:
weapon length: 100
weight: 1.5
speed rating: 116
thrust damage: 35 pierce
swing damage: 40 cut
Cost: 8k
Can I offer such an idea and call it balanced?
weapon length: 100
weight: 1.5
speed rating: 114 (-2)
thrust damage: 33 pierce (-2)
swing damage: 41 cut (+1)
Cost: 10k (+2k)
It's basically "-2 speed and -2 pierce, +2k price for +1 cut" now. So I just balanced it? No. The weapon already has strong stats. That is the thing with the paramerion at the moment, it's just sligthly better not as omnipotent as this fantasy sword. I just commented on the way you think, not on the idea itself directly.
I never tried this on cRPG, but I think I can trust your judgement on that :)
Ujin stop pretending like upkeep matters, also, everyone besides me, Falka, and Smooth disagree with you and just couldn't bother typing it.
-1 speed, -1 cut +1-2k in price. Weapon will be in between nordic champ and knightly arming.
Ujin at least provides a couple of suggestions as to how it could be balanced (4 iirc), unlike you who just enters the balancing topic to slag him off and call 1H up. Grow up.I have posted several suggestions, but ok.
I'd just like to point out, that being a players for 2 years and some months, I've only just hit over 100k on a single char.2 slots? lol no. And are you telling me that you have played for 2 years and have only 100k to show for it? what the fuck
Upkeep IS important to take into account, you can't balance around those who have gold to throw away!
I suggest, rather radically, make it 2 slots. Yes, it's OP for its price etc. But if it were 2 slots, it couldn't be used by proper hoplites etc
This will probably get a shit tonne of down votes, but oh well ^^
My idea stems from 2h's. You want to be pure 2h? Sure, take a great sword. You want to be 2h with xbow or bow? You gotta take a slightly inferior 2h!
So you want to be pure 1h? Sure take a better 1h! You want a spear aswell? Can't have the best of both worlds! Sorry!
2 slots? lol no. And are you telling me that you have played for 2 years and have only 100k to show for it? what the fuck
Yeah, I measure my fun in gold too -.-since you only have 100k ill assume you are talking about normal weapons.....you buy normal weapons and then sell them back to buy them later? genius right here
I don't hoard, I give money out, I buy equip, resell it, buy it again a few weeks later etc etc
I play the game for fun, not for gold
since you only have 100k ill assume you are talking about normal weapons.....you buy normal weapons and then sell them back to buy them later? genius right here
i couldnt give a shit about gold, I give a shit about looms and what buys looms? gold
So you care about something other than the enjoyment of the game itself, I don't. Which was my pointWhich is why upkeep and looms are horrible features, one rewards a guy who has played for a long time in something else than enjoyment, the other forces potential boredom in order to enjoy the game providing you prefer to use more expensive gear.
Yeah normal weapons. I think "meh, I don't like this anymore" then I realise I do :DI personally enjoy the economy...do what you want, but having 100k is your own fault not upkeeps
I'm not playing an economy sim here lol
So you care about something other than the enjoyment of the game itself, I don't. Which was my point
I personally enjoy the economy...do what you want, but having 100k is your own fault not upkeeps
I never said it was upkeeps fault -.-
Just that gold is still an issue for people
LordRichrich, the not so rich, apparently.Especially with weapons. :lol:
Cost is indeed a useful balancing tool but outside of strategus, its usefulness is rather limited. Minor variance in cost really has no effect on item usage anyway.
Devs have smartly added a feature for people like you; you can sell an heirloom point every now and then and never have to worry about gold. It takes what, like 80 hours per heirloom point, and selling that one heirloom point can fund any build except heavy cav for several gens.