Paramerion is OP

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Bullshit, i play for over 2 years, have 40k and pay 3k upkeep just for my cata, if i max all my items i can lose over 7k in one round.

Dude, I'm a ht, I got no real chars to retire with, and even for me upkeep is only a minor pain in the ass.

[Ujin]

People keep saying how upkeep doesn't matter or work at all nowadays, however why then don't we see armies of plated 2h heroes in gothic/milanese or a huge percentage of heavy cav, or  lancers with extremely expensive side weapons ?  Instead people try to min -max their items for upkeep and weight penalties , which both work, we can assume. I can only speak for Eu community, of course.

[Falka]

why then don't we see armies of plated 2h heroes in gothic/milanese or a huge percentage of heavy cav, or  lancers with extremely expensive side weapons ?

Because ppl don't want to be plated heroes in gothic armor nor heavy cav? I have almost 20 +3 items (not even sure how many), more than 4 mln gold and never used armor heavier than brigandine or horsie more expansive than arabian. And I assure you that upkeep is not an issue for me. Dunno why you think that everyone want to use most expensive gear while it's neither best looking nor best according to stats.

[Ujin]

Because ppl don't want to be plated heroes in gothic armor nor heavy cav?

Hey i know you, you like to be a fast agi whore basically ( no offense, just a term) . =)
But ever since they introduced the upkeep patch the amount of heavily (let's say above coat of plates) armored players has been gradually reducing.

[Jarlek]

I'd rather they buff the other 1h than nerf the Paramerion

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

People keep saying how upkeep doesn't matter or work at all nowadays, however why then don't we see armies of plated 2h heroes in gothic/milanese or a huge percentage of heavy cav, or  lancers with extremely expensive side weapons ?  Instead people try to min -max their items for upkeep and weight penalties , which both work, we can assume. I can only speak for Eu community, of course.

Medium armor is the best armor, would still be the best armor if upkeep wasn't there, light cav in general beats heavy cav, and we had a flood of lancers before insane flood of hoplites. And to your later on post about heavy armor and upkeep patch, pretty sure the upkeep was much more extreme back then, and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a marketplace, and even more importantly pretty sure people couldn't block that great and plate hadn't been nerfed to current levels back then.

[Ujin]

Medium armor is the best armor, would still be the best armor if upkeep wasn't there, light cav in general beats heavy cav, and we had a flood of lancers before insane flood of hoplites. And to your later on post about heavy armor and upkeep patch, pretty sure the upkeep was much more extreme back then, and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a marketplace, and even more importantly pretty sure people couldn't block that great and plate hadn't been nerfed to current levels back then.

yet a str build in heavy armor (especially as 2h or a poleaxe user) can be really OP  atm.

Anyways, we're derailing,i hope you guys can at least agree with my 2 solutions for balancing paramerion ?  I was going to loom it no matter what not knowing the stats but i really like the fact that it can be very good top tier weapon to rival nordic , scimitar, cav sword etc.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

yet a str build in heavy armor (especially as 2h or a poleaxe user) can be really OP  atm.
Yes, and an str or an agi build in medium armor can be more OP atm with a 2h or long polearm, and 1h sucks hard with plate.
Anyways, we're derailing,i hope you guys can at least agree with my 2 solutions for balancing paramerion ?  I was going to loom it no matter what not knowing the stats but i really like the fact that it can be very good top tier weapon to rival nordic , scimitar, cav sword etc.

I agree that it should be a rival, but it shouldn't be better, just a rival, this is were we disagree (at least looking at your suggestion), and upkeep isn't and shouldn't be a balancing tool.

[TurmoilTom]

Looks to me like this weapon should be the Long Espada for people who want cut damage instead of stab.

Increasing price to 10k; dropping 1p from stab (and maybe also 1 speed) should make it balanced. Reduce stats any more than that and it just becomes a very mediocre NCS.

Also, I'm going to lobby that the 12 difficulty be kept because I don't like not being able to use a lot of one-handers on my agi swashbuckler. 

[Ujin]

I agree that it should be a rival, but it shouldn't be better, just a rival, this is were we disagree (at least looking at your suggestion), and upkeep isn't and shouldn't be a balancing tool.

Of course, it should keep it's current stats. I'd just rather have them nerf it's speed and/or pierce damag then the main (cut) damage , to keep it on par. Price is still a factor though,i think it's either way too good for it's current price.

[TurmoilTom]

upkeep isn't and shouldn't be a balancing tool.

If that were true then the ideal would be that every item in the game cost the same as anything else and that the only balancing factor would be stats.

That's not how it works.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Looks to me like this weapon should be the Long Espada for people who want cut damage instead of stab.

Increasing price to 10k; dropping 1p from stab (and maybe also 1 speed) should make it balanced. Reduce stats any more than that and it just becomes a very mediocre NCS.

Also, I'm going to lobby that the 12 difficulty be kept because I don't like not being able to use a lot of one-handers on my agi swashbuckler. 

Reducing 1p from the stab and 1 from the speed would make it a nordic champ with one more pierce and one more length...

[TurmoilTom]

Reducing 1p from the stab and 1 from the speed would make it a nordic champ with one more pierce and one more length...

And it would be more expensive.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

And it would be more expensive.

k, upkeep doesn't really mean shit imo.

[Ujin]

How about :

96 speed , same dmg , + 1-2k  in price ?