cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Panos on December 28, 2012, 09:14:13 pm

Title: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 28, 2012, 09:14:13 pm
Polearms got nerfed to the ground,servers are full of 2h heroes and ranged and the only ones who use polearms are the ones who are cavalry and pikes/lspears.

Swords are faster and stronger than polearms,you removed polestun,remove thrust stun aswell..


Jesus fucking christ,no more 2h/ranged servers,the mod is dull.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 28, 2012, 09:19:03 pm
i dont have a problem with it, it just gives some more danger to stabbing people. (i am piker)
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 28, 2012, 09:19:54 pm
i dont have a problem with it, it just gives some more danger to stabbing people. (i am piker)

Yeah, makes you an easy kill for the already fast 2h/1h class..
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 28, 2012, 09:20:52 pm
idk, i can fight as support and as ninja if i want.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Dionysus on December 28, 2012, 09:35:12 pm
I noticed that in some cases, a player who is stunned due to a blocked thrust can actually avoid being hit by jumping away, but I haven't tried this myself.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Malaclypse on December 28, 2012, 09:37:28 pm
It's fairly long for poles, a number of which are already suffering heavily from the turn-radius nerf (2-d polearms) as well as the loss of polestagger (spears, especially). 2-handers can have it too but it seems like the window for them to be stunned on a thrust is during a shorter phase of the animation, idk.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 28, 2012, 09:38:23 pm
It's fairly long. 2-handers can have it too but it seems like the window for them to be stunned on a thrust is during a shorter phase of the animation, idk.

Speed > Damage> Length
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Arathian on December 28, 2012, 09:43:43 pm
2handers also have the stab stun.

Just jump away after you fail to stab. Works even for me with 1 athletics.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Arathian on December 28, 2012, 09:44:07 pm
Speed > Damage> Length

re zabo agori, bes steam.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 28, 2012, 09:45:02 pm
Polearms got nerfed to the ground,servers are full of 2h heroes and ranged and the only ones who use polearms are the ones who are cavalry and pikes/lspears.

Swords are faster and stronger than polearms,you removed polestun,remove thrust stun aswell..


Jesus fucking christ,no more 2h/ranged servers,the mod is dull.
2h has thrust stun aswell.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 28, 2012, 09:45:30 pm
2handers also have the stab stun.

Just jump away after you fail to stab. Works even for me with 1 athletics.

why the hell do I have to play the zogler to avoid an idiotic stun??

Just remove,can`t you see that other classes slowly die..

Edit for GTX : yes they do but polearm stun lasts longer,I tested it a while ago..
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 28, 2012, 10:17:07 pm
why the hell do I have to play the zogler to avoid an idiotic stun??

Just remove,can`t you see that other classes slowly die..

Edit for GTX : yes they do but polearm stun lasts longer,I tested it a while ago..

I am not so sure, it seemed like it was the same. Idk... maybe its because i get it more frequently with 2h.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 28, 2012, 10:25:02 pm
I noticed that in some cases, a player who is stunned due to a blocked thrust can actually avoid being hit by jumping away, but I haven't tried this myself.
believe me, this is only for the people that dont know how to play piker ninja properly. indeed, you have to avoid the hits when stunned but jumping backwards will only give you a wall of downblocks. if you are good enough at  blocking and if you have a good feeling for teamfights (even being able to predict incoming attacks based on your moves), you can easily ninja your way through a group of enemies and kill them all.
there is no way to fight 1 vs 3 with a long spear when jumping away. i can, with my techniques. red pike is even better as he is able to do it with a pike, wich i suck at.

if anyone doesnt know what i mean, pm me and ill teach you.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Yachdiel on December 28, 2012, 10:37:23 pm
So Poles were nerfed to hell and you want to nerf them more? Or nerf the stab on 2Hs?

I don't get it.

And polearms aren't just Cav and Pikes, its also hoplites who need Polestun to remain effective.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 28, 2012, 10:41:32 pm
So Poles were nerfed to hell and you want to nerf them more? Or nerf the stab on 2Hs?

I don't get it.

And polearms aren't just Cav and Pikes, its also hoplites who need Polestun to remain effective.
polestun: if someone gets stabbed by a polearm, he gets stunned

thrust stun: if someone stabs (espescially polearms) and gets blocked, the weapon bounces back and isnt able to block/attack for a brief amount of time. this isnt removed yet.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Paul on December 28, 2012, 10:43:55 pm
So Poles were nerfed to hell and you want to nerf them more? Or nerf the stab on 2Hs?

I don't get it.

And polearms aren't just Cav and Pikes, its also hoplites who need Polestun to remain effective.

Panos means the attacker stun that disallows the attacker to block or attack again for some time after one of their stabs got blocked. On the other hand defender stun would happen when someone tries to block a strong (held) attack with a much lighter weapon, preventing to attack right after the block.

You mean polestagger that has been removed on WSE2 servers for some time now. Polestagger is a Native mechanic that gives a successful attack with a non-knockdown flagged polearm the chance(50%) to stagger an opponent. That means he will then execute a longer "has been hit" animation, which usually allows a follow up attack to be landed without chance to block for the victim.

I tried to establish the terms stun and stagger for those two different mechanics but no...
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Nazurdin on December 28, 2012, 11:04:09 pm
Lol, imagine Knitler and other lawlpikewhores without thrust stun.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 28, 2012, 11:09:28 pm
Lol, imagine Knitler and other lawlpikewhores without thrust stun.

(click to show/hide)
Yeah.... the hre 2-directional polearms is alrdy doing great in siege. And they rely 100% on the stab.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: cmp on December 28, 2012, 11:10:02 pm
Edit for GTX : yes they do but polearm stun lasts longer,I tested it a while ago..
I am not so sure, it seemed like it was the same. Idk... maybe its because i get it more frequently with 2h.

Funnily enough, you're both incorrect. 2h stun on a parried stab is 0.05s longer.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Teeth on December 28, 2012, 11:19:59 pm
I know exactly when to expect it when doing 2h stabs though, it pretty much only happens when you do a late dragging hit. Which are pretty useless, so getting stunned is rare, besides you need a very fast weapon to actually hit the average greatsworder after stun.. With my longspear I am not sure when I am able get stun, probably anytime cause most of my hits require dragging to actually hit anyway.

Anyway, I think it is a pretty gay mechanic, as I have no clue how to avoid it with my longspear so it feels like another random factor to combat to me, which should be minimized in my opinion. Also, two directional polearms are still gimped as fuck.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 28, 2012, 11:26:05 pm
Yeah.... the hre 2-directional polearms is alrdy doing great in siege. And they rely 100% on the stab.
HEY! i use overheads very often and knitler even more!
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 28, 2012, 11:32:32 pm
Funnily enough, you're both incorrect. 2h stun on a parried stab is 0.05s longer.
I am not so sure, it seemed like it was the same. Idk... maybe its because i get it more frequently with 2h.
I said the same, i am so sry i could not see the 0.05s. That is ofc a huge difference, which is long from the nearly the same. That also makes this thread kinda stupid, since 2h actually has it worse than polearms.

Edit for no rules: Comeon man, u know thats a lie!. Its like 10% of ur hits!.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Kafein on December 28, 2012, 11:34:15 pm
The turn rate nerf did not nerf 2D polearms for everybody. With the new hit detection you can do things that weren't possible before, as in stabbing people at facehug range with very long weapons without wiggling. So I wouldn't say it's a polearm nerf or a 2h nerf. If anything it's a 1h nerf, because 1h lack the damage to do these early connecting stabs and really need to turn around in order to hit anything because of how close to their opponents one handers need to fight. Overheads also suffer from this problem.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Leshma on December 28, 2012, 11:38:07 pm
Thrust stun is my death sentence, literally.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Leshma on December 28, 2012, 11:40:41 pm
I said the same, i am so sry i could not see the 0.05s. That is ofc a huge difference, which is long from the nearly the same. That also makes this thread kinda stupid, since 2h actually has it worse than polearms.

It's not, Teeth explained why. I too have no idea when it's going to happen with polearms and I'm actually scared to use thrust attack because of it. If someone like Teeth who is very versed with 2D polearms have no idea when thrust stun is going to occur, I doubt there's many players who do know.

As a 2H it's pretty easy to avoid thrust stun.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Yachdiel on December 28, 2012, 11:42:28 pm
polestun: if someone gets stabbed by a polearm, he gets stunned

thrust stun: if someone stabs (espescially polearms) and gets blocked, the weapon bounces back and isnt able to block/attack for a brief amount of time. this isnt removed yet.

My apologies, I understand now. And I also agree it should be removed.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Teeth on December 29, 2012, 12:21:08 am
The turn rate nerf did not nerf 2D polearms for everybody. With the new hit detection you can do things that weren't possible before, as in stabbing people at facehug range with very long weapons without wiggling.
It was not like the wiggling was much of a hassle, actually it was part of the feint I did. Left wiggle, stab, got a lot of people to release their downblock. Below 200 range 2D polearms used to have a pretty big bag of tricks, great speed and amazing damage, weapons that were good even in duels. The wiggling required to do a stab with them was minimal and you still need to do some wiggling to hit at actual face hug ranges.

In a duel they got so much worse, while only being mediocre at being support weapons compared to a longspear that I see not much use in using them. Longspear hasn't been nerfed at all by the turnrate, still the best support weapon and still usable in a duel. If I may remind you of Chase with an the awlpike or even me or Warlord with the ashwood pike. Knitlery does a commendable job with the awlpike now, but they are not even close to the strength they used to have pre turn rate nerf.

In my opinion we should wait with suggesting any polearm changes for the change to the turn rate nerf they plan to do when they break compatibility with the blabla, whatever that means exactly. Here is hoping that will be the 6th, I think it will.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Pentecost on December 29, 2012, 12:37:02 am
Is it possible to reduce the magnitude of the thrust stun for certain weapons only? I think that a rework of the mechanic that affects all polearms could lead to some unintended balance issues, as polearms are all over the place in terms of efficacy at the moment.

Four-directional polearms like the Long Bardiche, Poleaxe, and Glaive are already on an even footing with the best 2h weapons out there. Making their thrust better would likely lead to problems. 

Pikes and Long Spears are the best support weapons in the game and are invaluable in winning the main infantry push during a round. Again, making their thrust better would likely lead to problems.

Two-directional polearms though? I would support a reduction in the magnitude of their thrust stun because, as other people have pointed out, they have very little going for them at the moment. They're difficult to use at a decent level after the turn speed change unless you've dedicated a considerable portion of your cRPG career to two-directional polearms alone, as opposed to the single generation you need to get used to a greatsword if you already know how to melee. They're expensive--everything from the Ranseur on up costs more to use than a Longsword, Heavy Bastard sword, Morningstar, or Barmace. Their thrusts are not appreciably better than those of other polearms when it comes to actual battlefield dynamics--the Poleaxe is better for 1v1 because it has a thrust that is shorter but just as strong and backed up by very good swings to boot, and the length of the Pike and Long Spear makes them better for fighting in groups. The only area in which they have an edge over other polearms is in being able to actually kill horses after you rear them, but the thing is that not even all of them can rear (lol Partisan).

That's why I think that reducing the magnitude of the thrust stun for specifically the Ranseur, Swiss Halberd, Spetum, Awlpike, Corseque, Long Awlpike, Partisan, and English Bill should be considered if the game engine would allow it. It would help to make the aforementioned weapons a better midpoint between the 1v1 power of the four-directionals and the absolute support offered by the pike/long spear, would not require changes to their stats, and would neither completely change how they play nor leave them as the bag of mediocrity they are now.

Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 29, 2012, 01:33:49 am
Ah you mean that thing when you hit wrong you take 2~3 animations more to retake your weapon than a block?

Its not when the guy just blocked, its when you hit the wall, or a shield on far or low distance, sometimes its really awkward when you have to fight agianst 2 ppl, you make a thrust on that shielder, get that "stun" and the other guy could easily hit you within 5seconds.

Would be realistic when hitting the wall or stone, but not on shields or just far away from them.

Theyre also called softspots, didnt noticed it in the low distance, but just in high, the "blocker" can easily walk forward and slash you. (notice that the guy dont even have to block)

HEY! i use overheads very often and knitler even more!

No... not really.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Dionysus on December 29, 2012, 02:37:54 am
Considering it exists for two-handed weapons as well, I don't think it should be removed. I understand that someone with only a one- or two-directional polearm is at a major disadvantage when fighting alone, but in another context, removing the thrust stun would allow players to constantly strike in group fights.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Tindel on December 29, 2012, 02:41:19 am
Failing a thrust with a 2h weapon is often a deathsentence, the recovery time is so damn slow. Its the same with polearms and 1h weapons.

I sort of want it gone, but then i want it gone for all weapon types.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Yachdiel on December 29, 2012, 03:05:12 am
Four-directional polearms like the Long Bardiche, Poleaxe, and Glaive are already on an even footing with the best 2h weapons out there. Making their thrust better would likely lead to problems. 

Remove thruststun, buff 4-D polearm slightly but add the Unbalanced modifier to them, or slow them down.

No one can swing a polearm that fast IRL
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: darmaster on December 29, 2012, 11:37:00 am
hmm i disagree. After 2 years people keep saying that because something "was nerfed" it has to be buffed: many times I've heard this stupid argument from archers, who got nerfed a lot, yes, but remember what they were at start. Polearms are excellent weapons, you can use them with shield, as hoplite, you can block horses with thrust, you can be a pike/longspear user, all axes are not unbalanced (differently from 2H axes). Polestun had no reason to exist, i believe it was one of the best change devs have done, and thrust stun has to be the same for every class.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 29, 2012, 11:48:55 am
Polestun had no reason to exist

Polestun was the only "Weapon" that polearms had against 2h class,now a 2h can easily outspam,outrange (stab) and in some cases do more damage (speed bonus) than a polearm.

Give the unbalanced tag to all polearms,leave out polestun,remove stab stun for polearms and give polearm thrust to all 115 cm > GS.

To me these options seem reasonable..
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Tindel on December 29, 2012, 12:01:23 pm
You cant unbalance the 4D polearms without unbalancing the greatswords.

And a GLA or a glaive in the hands of a competent player is faster than a fucking katana, helicopter style turning into swings kinda makes weapon speed a moot point.


The only thing i think makes 2h better than polearm is hiltslashing, with a pole you end up whiffing when too close.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 29, 2012, 12:07:47 pm
You cant unbalance the 4D polearms without unbalancing the greatswords.

And a GLA or a glaive in the hands of a competent player is faster than a fucking katana, helicopter style turning into swings kinda makes weapon speed a moot point.


The only thing i think makes 2h better than polearm is hiltslashing, with a pole you end up whiffing when too close.

Do you even lift bro??  :shock:
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 29, 2012, 12:08:44 pm
Polestun was the only "Weapon" that polearms had against 2h class,now a 2h can easily outspam,outrange (stab) and in some cases do more damage (speed bonus) than a polearm.

Give the unbalanced tag to all polearms,leave out polestun,remove stab stun for polearms and give polearm thrust to all 115 cm > GS.

To me these options seem reasonable..

Some 2H like WarCleaver already can outrange you with a swing, i must say weapons like 2H Bardiche, Warcleaver, Greataxe have a really awkward and sometimes retarded ghostrange.

Or you just retake the "animation"-"patch" so it will be longer some centimeters.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 29, 2012, 12:18:25 pm
Some 2H like WarCleaver already can outrange you with a swing, i must say weapons like 2H Bardiche, Warcleaver, Greataxe have a really awkward and sometimes retarded ghostrange.

Or you just retake the "animation"-"patch" so it will be longer some centimeters.
indeed, the thrust stun isnt that much of a problem imo, although the fact that those 1m long weapons can outrange your 2.5m pike, thats just stupid
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: NuberT on December 29, 2012, 01:01:12 pm
2handers also have the stab stun.

Just jump away after you fail to stab. Works even for me with 1 athletics.

Jumping backwards should actually not be possible or rewarded with a 50% falling down chance.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Gurnisson on December 29, 2012, 01:59:21 pm
I remember cmp talking about reducing thrust stun after the nerf to turning but nothing ever materialized. That was the end of my bill/halberd/lawlpike/fork era. :cry:
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Joseph Porta on December 29, 2012, 02:05:37 pm
imo  poles are nowhere near up compared to  2hers
i play them both daily with different builds
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Grumbs on December 29, 2012, 02:31:51 pm
I can't really say I notice thrust stun particularly but I would like the 2 direction poles to feel like they get a decent reach advantage. Not sure what exactly was done to glancing but it feels like they aren't actually anywhere near as long as the stats suggest. My Long Awlpike feels more like an old regular Awlpike, and I won't touch anything shorter since its just not worth losing 2 swing directions. Long Awlpike is still situational but more reliable than the others
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 29, 2012, 02:38:29 pm
I can't really say I notice thrust stun particularly but I would like the 2 direction poles to feel like they get a decent reach advantage. Not sure what exactly was done to glancing but it feels like they aren't actually anywhere near as long as the stats suggest. My Long Awlpike feels more like an old regular Awlpike, and I won't touch anything shorter since its just not worth losing 2 swing directions. Long Awlpike is still situational but more reliable than the others

Knit topped siege with just an awlpike.

Edit: That pretty much proves, that they aint in that bad a shape. Because he was competing against 1h, maulers and 2h swords in that scoreboard, yet he ended on top.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Grumbs on December 29, 2012, 02:45:52 pm
If someone felt like it I'm sure they could limit themselves to 2 directions with anything and still come out on top on siege. I just don't see the point of limiting yourself to 2 directions when they feel short and the stabs aren't even that good now. Its more like 1 direction with some of these overhead damages
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 29, 2012, 03:22:52 pm
Knit topped siege with just an awlpike.

Edit: That pretty much proves, that they aint in that bad a shape. Because he was competing against 1h, maulers and 2h swords in that scoreboard, yet he ended on top.

Ive seen Jarlek topping with throwing.

That doesn`t mean anything.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 29, 2012, 03:25:58 pm
Ive seen Jarlek topping with throwing.

That doesn`t mean anything.
jarlek always tops with throwing, especially on lower populated servers
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Shaksie on December 29, 2012, 03:29:53 pm
Agreed Panos!
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Joseph Porta on December 29, 2012, 03:50:28 pm
HEY! i use overheads very often and knitler even more!
i dont even upblock knitlerys overheads cause the instastab that would follow would 1 hit me in 60+ body armor
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Leshma on December 29, 2012, 04:08:20 pm
Ive seen Jarlek topping with throwing.

That doesn`t mean anything.

Throwing is best for collecting huge amount of points. You don't have to kill anyone but damage when you hit someone is great and you're much closer to the enemy than other ranged, which means you get close proximity points as well.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 29, 2012, 04:46:22 pm
Ive seen Jarlek topping with throwing.

That doesn`t mean anything.
Ive seen him try a ton of times without even getting close, so this seems weird.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 29, 2012, 05:20:15 pm
I've topped EU_4 with 12/27, an unloomed espada eslavona, and less than 25 body armor, clearly this is not a weak playstyle, and clearly the point system shows how great people are doing properly. (tbh the awlpike is a good enough weapon though, not op like the majority of the 2h class, but still a good weapon compared to regular things)
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Rumblood on December 29, 2012, 06:11:58 pm
Knit topped siege with just an awlpike.

Edit: That pretty much proves, that they aint in that bad a shape. Because he was competing against 1h, maulers and 2h swords in that scoreboard, yet he ended on top.

Siege has choke points. Get shielder to stand in front of you. Put your polearm through his body and attack enemies on the other side. Shielder blocks all attacks that get close enough, polearm can't be touched. If the choke point is a ladder, ranged can't get at them either.

Main issue with this mod. Balance for one mode (strategus for example), is bad balancing or kills the fun for other modes. And don't even get me started on those players who only want to balance from a 1 vs 1 duel standpoint.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 29, 2012, 06:44:48 pm
I am not sure but I think that higher WPF reduces the stun already.

If there was no thrust stun even with 1 wpf in polearms, than we would probably witness increase in long spear users among all classes.

I actually could belive it, with lower WPF you just make more "wronger" hits so the stun appears more often.

Awlpike is not for duelling, depends on the guy using it, me who started with Mount & Musket and ended up with cRPG used 95% of my playtime a 2directional weapon.
And also, in difference to bec, the awlpike is good for making fast kills, and much. But for the rest its just ... training.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 29, 2012, 06:48:47 pm
Siege has choke points. Get shielder to stand in front of you. Put your polearm through his body and attack enemies on the other side. Shielder blocks all attacks that get close enough, polearm can't be touched. If the choke point is a ladder, ranged can't get at them either.

Main issue with this mod. Balance for one mode (strategus for example), is bad balancing or kills the fun for other modes. And don't even get me started on those players who only want to balance from a 1 vs 1 duel standpoint.

LOl, that is just bugged. THat is only possible with the polearms?. Anyway... thats not how knit was fighting anyway.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 29, 2012, 07:22:18 pm
LOl, that is just bugged. THat is only possible with the polearms?. Anyway... thats not how knit was fighting anyway.

Just works for longspears or pikes maybe, but not with awlpike or long one, otherwise wouldnt use that "bug" anyway, jsut retarded :D
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Jarlek on December 29, 2012, 09:05:14 pm
Ive seen Jarlek topping with throwing.

That doesn`t mean anything.
I topped the scoreboard way easier on my last gen (2h shieldercav with 50 pole wpf). Was actually easier when I dropped the horse and shield and just went longsword infantry.

I also do melee. I hate kiting and never do it myself. When enemies gets close, I fight in melee unless I'm seriously outnumbered (10+vMe). I only switch back to throwing if the enemy is dead or is backpedaling so bad I get enough time to switch, throw and write "lol" in chat when it hits them.

jarlek always tops with throwing, especially on lower populated servers
Not really, I top it more often with other builds. Sometimes I'm almost at the bottom. It all depends on how capable my team is (the better they do, the less points I get) and how suicidal the enemy cav is. If my team just holds the enemy at bay I can rack up a lot of points killing the horses trying to attack the side/rear of the main infantry blob. Then I get kills when they are down and I whack them with my hammer. Most of my points are from damaging horses and hitting people with my Military Hammer, most of my kills are from killing people with my hammer in melee or throwing at people that are trying to run away.

Throwing is best for collecting huge amount of points. You don't have to kill anyone but damage when you hit someone is great and you're much closer to the enemy than other ranged, which means you get close proximity points as well.
Throwing is the best to collect huge amount of points, but that's mainly because of how well you can defend against horses. You can 2hit them when they charge you (3 if they stand still, 4 if armoured), which gives you a lot of points from the damage AND the proximity (you get prox for your own hits, which is why ranged usually don't get lots of points). But doing that alone is not usually enough to get on top. It's very rare for me to top the scoreboard without spending most of my time fighting with my hammer (unless there is a LOT of suicidal cav).

Ive seen him try a ton of times without even getting close, so this seems weird.
That's funny, cause last time we were in the same server you GTX after I killed you for the 7th time, last one with you and another greatsword user trying to gank me. Didn't even have to throw at you ^^

I've topped EU_4 with 12/27, an unloomed espada eslavona, and less than 25 body armor, clearly this is not a weak playstyle, and clearly the point system shows how great people are doing properly. (tbh the awlpike is a good enough weapon though, not op like the majority of the 2h class, but still a good weapon compared to regular things)
This. Just because a good player can do well with something, does not mean the weapon or build is OP. I'm also gonna agree on the awlpike. It is good, but not OP. It is powerful, but it's not as easy to use as other weapons. Just how it should be.


Now, FINALLY I can get to the OP:
Don't remove it for polearms purely. I'm gonna join Pentecost's view (http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/remove-thrust-stun-for-poles/msg685614/#msg685614) and say that the removal (well, not removal, but making it as long as when swinging) of the attacker stun on thrusts should be something that could be given to individual items (like unbalanced, knockdown, etc). This means it could be give to certain 2d polearms (halberd, bill etc), while keeping it on others. We could even give it to certain 1h and 2h. I doubt anyone have any problems with the shortswords for example, so that could a weapon type to get it.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 29, 2012, 09:07:29 pm
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 29, 2012, 09:56:32 pm
That's funny, cause last time we were in the same server you GTX after I killed you for the 7th time, last one with you and another greatsword user trying to gank me. Didn't even have to throw at you ^^
What? I do not remember that at all. Also, u never killed me seven times, so plz cut the made up stuff.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Jarlek on December 30, 2012, 03:55:13 am
What? I do not remember that at all. Also, u never killed me seven times, so plz cut the made up stuff.
EU_4 on the 28th. Don't lie about lying, kiddo.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Prpavi on December 30, 2012, 10:51:09 am
Biased thread again...I don't get the logic here.

So pole stun was removed, everybody is crying lol wtf. Nobody plays poles because of polestun removed T_T ... bullcrap if you played it only because of the stun youre a little prick aboozer i play mighty GLB this gen, played Flam last one and i still say poles are better than 2h, i have a sentimental attachment to 2h so i still switch between the two.

The thrust stun for pikes is as bad as 2h so no reson to cry.

How about they fix the hitbox for long spear so people cant stab in the sky and drag the hit down towards you or hit you magically over people, or was that the way it was done in Macedonia centuries ago?

i can already see the machine gun stabbers with pikes if stun was removed, so one word: NO

Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Falka on December 30, 2012, 11:08:04 am
(click to show/hide)
This.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 30, 2012, 12:17:50 pm
i can already see the machine gun stabbers with pikes if stun was removed, so one word: NO

There is no freaking stun in every hit! Its just 0.5seconds like Paul said and thats nothing, were talking about when you hit wrong or softspot the enemy.!

FOR FUCK SAKE! Stop writing in threads without knowing whats going on here...

Removing that "stun" will just raise the survivingchance, cause you can block after failed.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: donib on December 30, 2012, 12:26:27 pm
How about they fix the hitbox for long spear so people cant stab in the sky and drag the hit down towards you or hit you magically over people

I thought you can do the same with 2h stabs
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Prpavi on December 30, 2012, 12:29:35 pm
I thought you can do the same with 2h stabs

not nearly as effective.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 30, 2012, 12:30:34 pm
Biased thread again...I don't get the logic here.

So pole stun was removed, everybody is crying lol wtf. Nobody plays poles because of polestun removed T_T ... bullcrap if you played it only because of the stun youre a little prick aboozer i play mighty GLB this gen, played Flam last one and i still say poles are better than 2h, i have a sentimental attachment to 2h so i still switch between the two.

The thrust stun for pikes is as bad as 2h so no reson to cry.

How about they fix the hitbox for long spear so people cant stab in the sky and drag the hit down towards you or hit you magically over people, or was that the way it was done in Macedonia centuries ago?

i can already see the machine gun stabbers with pikes if stun was removed, so one word: NO

No this is not a biase thread, I play polearms from day 1 and I still play polearms.


Stating the obvious is not crying or whinning man ffs,c-rpg is guided by the 2h lobbyist`s..

2h cry about lance,restrain lance angle.
2h cry about couch,restrain couch damage to max 20.
2h cry about polearms,remove polestun.

and these are only 3 examples of why this mod has become unbalance,eu1 is full of 2h and ranged,rarely you see a polearm user nowadays,and yes it annoys me that polestun was removed because as I already said,it was the only thing that could counter attack the fucking idiotic LOLSTAB.

If you do not believe that 2h is OP compared to either classes,then either you are blind or a 2h man for real.I`ve seen 2h players saying that 2h class is very OP and it needs a nerf,and no this not a whinning thread,I never claimed to be a good player nor I cared to be one,but for sure I know that I can own a lot of these guys who call me whinner.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Prpavi on December 30, 2012, 12:50:07 pm
2h is not OP only lolstab is and it should be nerfed to shit! fact.

2h agi German/Danish gs wielding kuyak heroes are the easied mode this mod has ever seen and i really dont see how can anybody find any cahallenge in that, the only melee build that is easier and makes my stomack turn more is agi 1h/shield left swing spammers, but to each his own.

I do not abuse lolstab or ever did, i choose to play with slower higher dmg weapons.

The fact that lostab is OP is no argument to remove thrust stun from poles, that makes this thread looks biased, if you hate 2h make a nerf lolstab/2h thread not buff my class thread  :wink:

p.s. come to EU_1 and see throngs of ranged and pikes m8 not 2h, makes me wonder why is everyone poking now. Its fucking easy! just like lolstab.

kissy kissy ese  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 30, 2012, 01:00:59 pm
So pole stun was removed, everybody is crying lol wtf. Nobody plays poles because of polestun removed T_T ... bullcrap if you played it only because of the stun youre a little prick aboozer i play mighty GLB this gen, played Flam last one and i still say poles are better than 2h, i have a sentimental attachment to 2h so i still switch between the two.
Let's look at the stats of just the two weapons you're switching from.
Bardiche
(click to show/hide)
Flamberge
(click to show/hide)
So the bardiche got 2 more cut, bonus against shield, 3 more reach, one more speed, and it can be sheathed. However the flamberge got 6 more pierce, 0.5 more weight, it's not unbalanced, and it got one of the swings as a 2h swing so it still got the animation with the longest reach. The flamberge is better, and it's not even one of the best 2hs compared to other 2h...
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Prpavi on December 30, 2012, 01:09:12 pm
Let's look at the stats of just the two weapons you're switching from.
Bardiche
(click to show/hide)
Flamberge
(click to show/hide)
So the bardiche got 2 more cut, bonus against shield, 3 more reach, one more speed, and it can be sheathed. However the flamberge got 6 more pierce, 0.5 more weight, it's not unbalanced, and it got one of the swings as a 2h swing so it still got the animation with the longest reach. The flamberge is better, and it's not even one of the best 2hs compared to other 2h...

i own MW Flam and mighty GLB and play with them back to back gens and find GLB to be better of two... just my personal opinion

why Flamberge is unbalanced, i don't know, probably because nobody would use it nex to GLB because it wouldn't make no sense really next to the sheath and shield bonus of GLB.

but were just talking about 2 wepons here that are not even cosidered best

Regular GLB stats:

weapon length: 155
weight: 3.5
difficulty: 18
speed rating: 87
weapon length: 155
thrust damage: 18 pierce
swing damage: 46 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Grumbs on December 30, 2012, 01:10:46 pm
I don't know what Panos originally wanted with removal of thrust stun, but if you read Knitlers last post you can see he's talking about random huge self stuns. Not the normal ones you get, but the ones that make it impossible to block an attack, not so you can do another insta stab straight after their block. You shouldn't be put in a position where you can't make any block attempt after a stab, its like it skips your block & attack phase.

I don't really notice it a huge amount personally, but dying from some random factor is probably not what the mod should be aiming for.

BTW the reason we can have a decent amount of stabby polearms on EU1 is largely defence against Cav. They are good for more precise aiming into melee clusters too, especially if some don't want to be risking overheads in a group. But for me I like having that duel role of melee support and cav stopper
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 30, 2012, 01:18:03 pm
You shouldn't be put in a position where you can't make any block attempt after a stab, its like it skips your block & attack phase.
I don't really notice it a huge amount personally, but dying from some random factor is probably not what the mod should be aiming for.

this.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Prpavi on December 30, 2012, 01:25:50 pm
this.

this is what happens when u stab a shield or a wall with 2h  :wink:

Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 30, 2012, 01:27:12 pm
this is what happens when u stab a shield or a wall with 2h  :wink:
For the shield it only happens if you make a horrible stab that would've glanced anyway.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 30, 2012, 01:28:11 pm
this is what happens when u stab a shield or a wall with 2h  :wink:

but for 2directional its a deathsence, ALL 2H have sideswings.

For the shield it only happens if you make a horrible stab that would've glanced anyway.

correct.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 30, 2012, 01:29:30 pm
correct.
Then 1+ me, I need that renown.  :(
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Prpavi on December 30, 2012, 01:30:54 pm
but for 2directional its a deathsence, ALL 2H have sideswings.




yes it's worse on a weapon u use i agree. just like a regular 2h lolstab abuser sees nothing wrong with the lolstab.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 30, 2012, 01:34:10 pm
yes it's worse on a weapon u use i agree. just like a regular 2h lolstab abuser sees nothing wrong with the lolstab.

The thing is, after you "softspot" with the 2H (when enemy is directly next to you) you easily can sideswing and kill him then.

When theyre on high range you still can do something as 2H.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Grumbs on December 30, 2012, 01:46:48 pm
I don't think the answer is to nerf 2 hand more btw. Last thing we need is more melee nerfs

What happened recently was there was a push by the mod devs to encourage a wider range of 2 hand uses. The anti shielders got nice buffs (all axes). The mid range swords got buffs and Danish got a nerf. This isn't a bad idea in its own right imo

This indirectly nerfs all polearms, since the stats of 2 handers that oppose them are improved.

Then we also have a series of general melee nerfs over the last year. Turning while attacking was nerfed for everyone but affected people with 2 directions the most. Crappy game mechanic was removed (randy stagger) that affected only poles. Glancing was changed for being too close to enemy, and I think for being a certain distance away (possibly if enemy is moving away from your attack). Not sure about the glancing but poles all feel effectively shorter for me.

Some poles are probably in a good place, like some axes or poleaxes. Some are complete garbage that need similar buffs that mid range 2 handers got, and some need some little buffs like 2 direction poles (not all, the high damage ones might be OK). I'm talking 28 pierce ones that feel quite short now. TBH I would like all stabbing weapons to get some glance buff at the extent of their range, and some might need damage buffs
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 30, 2012, 01:54:10 pm
This indirectly nerfs all polearms, since the stats of 2 handers that oppose them are improved.

Then we also have a series of general melee nerfs over the last year. Turning while attacking was nerfed for everyone but affected people with 2 directions the most. Crappy game mechanic was removed (randy stagger) that affected only poles. Glancing was changed for being too close to enemy, and I think for being a certain distance away (possibly if enemy is moving away from your attack). Not sure about the glancing but poles all feel effectively shorter for me.

Some poles are probably in a good place, like some axes or poleaxes. Some are complete garbage that need similar buffs that mid range 2 handers got, and some need some little buffs like 2 direction poles (not all, the high damage ones might be OK). I'm talking 28 pierce ones that feel quite short now. TBH I would like all stabbing weapons to get some glance buff at the extent of their range, and some might need damage buffs

Im okay with that turnspeednerf and glancing one, but the animation of the stab got "nerfed" so the stabs got shorter in relevance to 2H,

And when it affect some 2directional it should affect all, cause its just about handling and not damage. It would just be like; Oh that pitchfork got better handling then a military weapon.

Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: cmp on December 30, 2012, 01:57:33 pm
Im okay with that turnspeednerf and glancing one, but the animation of the stab got "nerfed" so the stabs got shorter in relevance to 2H,

No it wasn't. Animations haven't been touched in more than a year.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 30, 2012, 01:58:16 pm
No it wasn't. Animations haven't been touched in more than a year.

I think it`s time to touch them again...
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 30, 2012, 02:05:49 pm
No it wasn't. Animations haven't been touched in more than a year.

Ye, im playing since more than one year now, my timefeeling isnt the best anymore, too much happened. etc.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Grumbs on December 30, 2012, 02:08:16 pm
The range thing might be to do with having to keep a bigger buffer between you and another player now. So if he moves away you are already more likely to glance with the shorter poles. You do need to play a bit differently now to before in terms of keeping distance. I do notice strange glancing though, especially on horse that seem close enough (but not too close) but are moving fast
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 30, 2012, 02:13:13 pm
The range thing might be to do with having to keep a bigger buffer between you and another player now. So if he moves away you are already more likely to glance with the shorter poles. You do need to play a bit differently now to before in terms of keeping distance. I do notice strange glancing though, especially on horse that seem close enough (but not too close) but are moving fast

Ye, funfact. Im softspotting horsies all the time and theyre stoping. :)

And i already have 7ATHL, will go up to 8ATHL, i hope that will be enough for that. But 2H still killing me like shish kebab with the stab.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Prpavi on December 30, 2012, 02:14:04 pm
Ye, funfact. Im softspotting horsies all the time and theyre stoping. :)

And i already have 7ATHL, will go up to 8ATHL, i hope that will be enough for that. But 2H still killing me like butter ^^.

Try gonig 8PS you'll glance allot less  :wink:
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Grumbs on December 30, 2012, 02:15:42 pm
I have 8 PS, 159 WPF and use 35 pierce weapon (MW L Awlpike). Still happens in odd situations
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 30, 2012, 02:25:58 pm
7PS, just aim for the head and they die fast enough ^^ The 8 ATHL is for helping teammates faster :=)
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Banok on December 30, 2012, 07:44:44 pm
make them predictable to block/chamber like the other animations (im looking at you pikers), and its a fucking deal.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Alexander_TheGreat_ on December 30, 2012, 08:00:55 pm
AND PANOS IS BACK!!!
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Kafein on December 30, 2012, 08:12:12 pm
Just so you know, you don't need any more PS knitler.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Falka on December 30, 2012, 10:20:10 pm
Stating the obvious is not crying or whinning man ffs,c-rpg is guided by the 2h lobbyist`s..

2h cry about lance,restrain lance angle.
2h cry about couch,restrain couch damage to max 20.
2h cry about polearms,remove polestun.

and these are only 3 examples of why this mod has become unbalance,

Are you trying to say that only 2h wanted to remove polestun and nerf lancers? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: rustyspoon on December 30, 2012, 10:58:28 pm
Are you trying to say that only 2h wanted to remove polestun and nerf lancers? I don't think so.

Yeah, polestun really needed to go...

Also, your average 2-hander cries more than a teenage girl.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 30, 2012, 11:04:17 pm
Yeah, polestun really needed to go...

Also, your average 2-hander cries more than a teenage girl.

This thread is not a 2h crying about something.... seems like it is polearms.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 01:25:31 am
This thread is not a 2h crying about something.... seems like it is polearms.

You moronic cunt,noone is crying here,if you can`t see the inbalance between 2h class and the other classes then you are dumb.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 01:46:25 am
You moronic cunt,noone is crying here,if you can`t see the inbalance between 2h class and the other classes then you are dumb.

If i write that, or any other 2h mostly. I will get this back:'' stop crying''. If i wrote my opinion on classes, which i feel is inbalanced, then that would for sure be the answer.

Wanna bet?

Edit: Whats up with the language? I guess we are not all allowed to give our opinions..... makes alot of sense, since u posted it in general discussion.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on December 31, 2012, 01:47:34 am
This thread is not a 2h crying about something.... seems like it is polearms.

Oh you mean polearm users are actually asking for something for once? I mean its usually 2handers crying for nerfs against ranged, cav, pikes, polearms in general. You name it and the chances are a majority of 2handed users have cried for it to be nerfed.

I think its about time Polearm users got something I mean so far we have had our class made not useless but kinda handicapped in some sense. I mean on average 2handers do more damage out range other weapons are faster, A.K.A you have every advantage nearly... There is no real point going anything BUT two hander like I said you hold all the cards so why go polearm, 1handed or ranged? I don't fully understand the thread or what panos is asking for because I can't be bothered to read every page atm but from what little iv read his asking for a change in polearms favour for once. I have played polearm since the first time I retired and every week it gets more tempting to respec to 2 hander I mean my GLA does less damage on average, bounces more, is out ranged and generally sucks compared to any average 2handed weapon.

For once in your cowardly life GTX accept the fact that your class is the easymode of cRPG as well as the most OP AND the biggest bunch of babies around. Also the other night you claimed "you're not biased" so please state some valid LOGICAL arguement's that show how polearms are balanced and equal to 2handers. Don't just jump in the thread calling people cry babies when you are the master Q.Qer of all cRPG history.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 01:50:11 am
Oh you mean polearm users are actually asking for something for once? I mean its usually 2handers crying for nerfs against ranged, cav, pikes, polearms in general. You name it and the chances are a majority of 2handed users have cried for it to be nerfed.

I think its about time Polearm users got something I mean so far we have had our class made not useless but kinda handicapped in some sense. I mean on average 2handers do more damage out range other weapons are faster, A.K.A you have every advantage nearly... There is no real point going anything BUT two hander like I said you hold all the cards so why go polearm, 1handed or ranged? I don't fully understand the thread or what panos is asking for because I can't be bothered to read every page atm but from what little iv read his asking for a change in polearms favour for once. I have played polearm since the first time I retired and every week it gets more tempting to respec to 2 hander I mean my GLA does less damage on average, bounces more, is out ranged and generally sucks compared to any average 2handed weapon.

For once in your cowardly life GTX accept the fact that your class is the easymode of cRPG as well as the most OP AND the biggest bunch of babies around. Also the other night you claimed "you're not biased" so please state some valid LOGICAL arguement's that show how polearms are balanced and equal to 2handers. Don't just jump in the thread calling people cry babies when you are the master Q.Qer of all cRPG history.

I can always trust on you to write this kind of stuff to me, im glad that you are so loyal.

So..... its not alright to ask for a nerf on a class, but its alright to ask for ur own class to become better? Flawless logic. So if we all do this, the balance will for sure not be fucked over ;).
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on December 31, 2012, 01:52:15 am
Wheres your "unbiased" argument GTX? Oh wait you don't have one as usual  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 01:53:50 am
Wheres your "unbiased" argument GTX? Oh wait you don't have one as usual  :rolleyes:

I didnt read it all, since it was just gonna be insults, harrasing or something like that.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 31, 2012, 01:53:51 am
The one and only - GTX
You should change that to "The coward identical to all the other cowards 'cept somewhat more of a coward - kuyakhero"
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 01:54:19 am
Oh you mean polearm users are actually asking for something for once? I mean its usually 2handers crying for nerfs against ranged, cav, pikes, polearms in general. You name it and the chances are a majority of 2handed users have cried for it to be nerfed.

I think its about time Polearm users got something I mean so far we have had our class made not useless but kinda handicapped in some sense. I mean on average 2handers do more damage out range other weapons are faster, A.K.A you have every advantage nearly... There is no real point going anything BUT two hander like I said you hold all the cards so why go polearm, 1handed or ranged? I don't fully understand the thread or what panos is asking for because I can't be bothered to read every page atm but from what little iv read his asking for a change in polearms favour for once. I have played polearm since the first time I retired and every week it gets more tempting to respec to 2 hander I mean my GLA does less damage on average, bounces more, is out ranged and generally sucks compared to any average 2handed weapon.

For once in your cowardly life GTX accept the fact that your class is the easymode of cRPG as well as the most OP AND the biggest bunch of babies around. Also the other night you claimed "you're not biased" so please state some valid LOGICAL arguement's that show how polearms are balanced and equal to 2handers. Don't just jump in the thread calling people cry babies when you are the master Q.Qer of all cRPG history.


Hunter,I made the same mistake as you did.

GTX is a 16 year old boy who used to GTX duels because he didn`t want to destroy his cool ranking,talking to him is like talking to a downnie ,he will listen but in the end he will always be dumb.

Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 01:54:45 am
You should change that to "The coward identical to all the other cowards 'cept somewhat more of a coward - kuyakhero"

I can nearly always trust u aswell zlisch, to write this kind of crap aswell. Im glad u are pretty loyal aswell. ;)
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 01:55:44 am

Hunter,I made the same mistake as you did.

GTX is a 16 year old boy who used to GTX duels because he didn`t want to destroy his cool ranking,talking to him is like talking to a downnie ,he will listen but in the end he will always be dumb.

Looks like Panos joins em, i did kinda see this one coming. Welcome to the haters, plz try to stay loyal as the others is. They are creating a fine example.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 01:57:34 am
Looks like Panos joins em, i did kinda see this one coming. Welcome to the haters, plz try to stay loyal as the others. They are creating a fine example.

I don`t hate you bro,I don`t give a shit about you,but if believing that I hate you feeds your ego and your e-penis,be my guest.


Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 01:58:25 am
I don`t hate you bro,I don`t give a shit about you,but if believing that I hate you feeds your ego and your e-penis,be my guest.

Im so sry, u are right. I guess i didnt read the signals correctly... u did also seem really nice towards me.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 31, 2012, 02:00:03 am
I can nearly always trust u aswell zlisch, to write this kind of crap aswell. Im glad u are pretty loyal aswell. ;)
omgz welcomz to zhe haterz plz stayz lozalz anz hatz onz mez, gtx youz a haterz.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on December 31, 2012, 02:00:22 am
meh
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on December 31, 2012, 02:01:06 am

Hunter,I made the same mistake as you did.

GTX is a 16 year old boy who used to GTX duels because he didn`t want to destroy his cool ranking,talking to him is like talking to a downnie ,he will listen but in the end he will always be dumb.

Its a shame you was not on EU_4 the other night, He was saying how his "unbiased" and how his class is not easy mode yet failed to come up with valid reasons as to why. And oh! according to his nord application he is 18 :lol:


Looks like Panos joins em, i did kinda see this one coming. Welcome to the haters, plz try to stay loyal as the others is. They are creating a fine example.

Hardly hating, just telling the truth and stating facts. And if you did read my post you will see I'm not insulting you.... kind of... maybe a lil at the end..... maybe...
On a serious note though GTX maybe if you used your head and made valid arguements that have logic and reason behind them, maybe then people would take your opinions seriously.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on December 31, 2012, 02:01:52 am
omgz welcomz to zhe haterz plz stayz lozalz anz hatz onz mez, gtx youz a haterz.

Hai! Iz a haterz to!
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 02:03:14 am
Im so sry, u are right. I guess i didnt read the signals correctly... u did also seem really nice towards me.

GTX, you are indifferent to me.

All you 2h heroes are afraid for balance between classes because you know that you wont be mighty anymore if u can`t abuze certain bugs of the animations.
That`s a fact,remember what happened with the turn nerf??
Half the 2h heroes switched to other classes.

I play polearms from day 1 I started the mod,and I will always do,so my opinion aint biased.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:05:25 am
Its a shame you was not on EU_4 the other night, He was saying how his "unbiased" and how his class is not easy mode yet failed to come up with valid reasons as to why. And oh! according to his nord application he is 18 :lol:


Hardly hating, just telling the truth and stating facts. And if you did read my post you will see I'm not insulting you.... kind of... maybe a lil at the end..... maybe...
On a serious note though GTX maybe if you used your head and made valid arguements that have logic and reason behind them, maybe then people would take your opinions seriously.

Do u have proff?

Haha also, u do nothing else than insult, its rly amazing. Its actually the first time i saw u argue, u normally keep it to the insults. Also, checking nord applications to try and find my age? U must rly care, that is really persistent, good example man.

Edit: Btw nice one hunter, double post. It would be alright, if u didnt only write 1 word in one of em xD.
GTX, you are indifferent to me.

All you 2h heroes are afraid for balance between classes because you know that you wont be mighty anymore if u can`t abuze certain bugs of the animations.
That`s a fact,remember what happened with the turn nerf??
Half the 2h heroes switched to other classes.

I play polearms from day 1 I started the mod,and I will always do,so my opinion aint biased.
Yes, omg u freaking hit the jackpot.... we are soooo scared.

I also played 2h from day 1, even after turn speed nerf... so yeah.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on December 31, 2012, 02:07:20 am
This went from a thread discussing game balance and the idea of removing a large feature of the game, to personal insults and everyone hating on GTX.  :rolleyes:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 02:07:57 am
Do u have proff?

Haha also, u do nothing else than insult, its rly amazing. Its actually the first time i saw u argue, u normally keep it to the insults. Also, checking nord applications to try and find my age? U must rly care, that is really persistent, good example man.
Yes, omg u freaking hit the jackpot.... we are soooo scared.

I also played 2h from day 1, even after turn speed nerf... so yeah.

We insult you because you are dumb.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:08:48 am
This went from a thread discussing game balance and the idea of removing a large feature of the game, to personal insults and everyone hating on GTX.  :rolleyes:

(click to show/hide)

Dude.... they are not hating or insulting, thats what they said themselves.  :lol:
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 31, 2012, 02:08:49 am
GTX, you are indifferent to me.

All you 2h heroes are afraid for balance between classes because you know that you wont be mighty anymore if u can`t abuze certain bugs of the animations.
That`s a fact,remember what happened with the turn nerf??
Half the 2h heroes switched to other classes.

I play polearms from day 1 I started the mod,and I will always do,so my opinion aint biased.
Saying you purely play one thing and then asking for anything else than a nerf for the thing you play shows a lot more bias than it takes away, same way no one takes gtxs "2h is hard" seriously when his main has always purely been a 2h.
Dude.... they are not hating or insulting, thats what they said themselves.  :lol:
I don't quite consider you important enough for me to really hate you, I'll gladly insult you though, coward.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on December 31, 2012, 02:09:42 am
I never actually searched your age, I read it when I posted my app months ago duur. However I'm going to stop replying to you because I don't want this decent LOGICAL thread to turn into another thread where you disgrace your self and prove to everyone how foolish you are seeing as there are enough of them floating around the forum as it is. I also suggest no one else reply to the coward and keep the thread on topic rather then letting GTX get all the attention like the little attention seeker he is.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Grumbs on December 31, 2012, 02:10:07 am
Break it up guys. Can't we all get along?

Out of all the classes in the game, I respect polearmers and 2 handers the most. Thats not saying I don't respect other classes, but having to manual block every attack and put up with the ranged fest in this mod should count for something.

So yeah why would you want to nerf 2 hand? Buff poles
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:10:13 am
We insult you because you are dumb.
I don`t hate you bro,I don`t give a shit about you,but if believing that I hate you feeds your ego and your e-penis,be my guest.

seems legit.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 31, 2012, 02:11:18 am
Thats getting more and more funnier, guys get your popcorn out. I will just make some notes like;

Do u have proff?

Also, checking nord applications to try and find my age? U must rly care, that is really persistent, good example man.

Well, and you say thats a proof?

Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:12:03 am
Saying you purely play one thing and then asking for anything else than a nerf for the thing you play shows a lot more bias than it takes away, same way no one takes gtxs "2h is hard" seriously when his main has always purely been a 2h.I don't quite consider you important enough for me to really hate you, I'll gladly insult you though, coward.

Thats what panos did, and he wanted to make the thing he played better. U seem to cut each other out xD.

Edit: Knit i meant on the thing above, thats why i made a space between it.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on December 31, 2012, 02:13:16 am
This is rather entertaining to watch them go back and forth like this, I must admit. But come on guys, keep your disagreements to the PMs and give this thread a chance to have some potency before it dies.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 31, 2012, 02:14:21 am
Thats what panos did, and he wanted to make the thing he played better. U seem to cut each other out xD.
I know that's what Panos did, and I stated that makes him just as capable of being biased as you, while I agree with him that 2h is brokenly overpowered then that still doesn't make "I play the same thing forever, don't play anything else, it's underpowered, please buff it." something that doesn't seem biased.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:14:35 am
I never actually searched your age, I read it when I posted my app months ago duur. However I'm going to stop replying to you because I don't want this decent LOGICAL thread to turn into another thread where you disgrace your self and prove to everyone how foolish you are seeing as there are enough of them floating around the forum as it is. I also suggest no one else reply to the coward and keep the thread on topic rather then letting GTX get all the attention like the little attention seeker he is.

Its kinda too late for that, u should prob not have begun the insult thing then. ^^
This is rather entertaining to watch them go back and forth like this, I must admit. But come on guys, keep your disagreements to the PMs and give this thread a chance to have some potency before it dies.
Edit: apple.... PLz shhhhhh, what do u think im trying ? ^^ These monkeys is easy to lure in.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on December 31, 2012, 02:15:16 am
Yeah, get back on topic and keep the thread alive before GTX ruins like most decent threads.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 02:16:05 am
Thats what panos did, and he wanted to make the thing he played better. U seem to cut each other out xD.

Edit: Knit i meant on the thing above, thats why i made a space between it.

Hey kid,I play the game to have fun,not winning like you,if i wanted to win I would use 2h sword and a kuyak like you.
I never cared to be the best nor I want to,I want to spend some hours of my day and have fun in a roleplaying game that I like.
What I don`t like though,it`s annoying little kids like you and rantrex abuzing every bug that the game has and make my game session bad.

Break it up guys. Can't we all get along?

Out of all the classes in the game, I respect polearmers and 2 handers the most. Thats not saying I don't respect other classes, but having to manual block every attack and put up with the ranged fest in this mod should count for something.

So yeah why would you want to nerf 2 hand? Buff poles

Grumbs,I`m not asking for a nerf to stats.

Just fix the goddamn lolstab and the idiotic hug slash that pasts through your block.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 31, 2012, 02:16:30 am
Break it up guys. Can't we all get along?

Out of all the classes in the game, I respect polearmers and 2 handers the most. Thats not saying I don't respect other classes, but having to manual block every attack and put up with the ranged fest in this mod should count for something.

So yeah why would you want to nerf 2 hand? Buff poles
1h no shield has to deal with all those issues along with having extremely shit range and stats in general, why are they not worthy of your respect?
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on December 31, 2012, 02:16:40 am
I actually think, if there are more posts it will be more alive, maybe the dev wants to get rid of GTX and buff all polearms to kill him?

set GTX dmg polearms OVER9000
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Joseph Porta on December 31, 2012, 02:17:31 am
Sex in the bum here
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:17:40 am
Hey kid,I play the game to have fun,not winning like you,if i wanted to win I would use 2h sword and a kuyak like you.
I never cared to be the best nor I want to,I want to spend some hours of my day and have fun in a roleplaying game that I like.
What I don`t like though,it`s annoying little kids like you and rantrex abuzing every bug that the game has and make my game session bad.

Grumbs,I`m not asking for a nerf to stats.

Just fix the goddamn lolstab and the idiotic hug slash that pasts through your block.

Yes plz fix the thrust stun on the lolstabs. It does not pass through ur blocks, u are pathetic :). I duel 2h aswell, and i can easyli block it. You do know blocking is right click.... right?
1h no shield has to deal with all those issues along with having extremely shit range and stats in general, why are they not worthy of your respect?
Here we go, he is on u now.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 31, 2012, 02:21:43 am
Yes plz fix the thrust stun on the lolstabs. It does not pass through ur blocks, u are pathetic :).
There is an actual glitch that let's you pass through blocks, but that's the one were you get the other player and then swing at his back while in/behind him by walking through him, but that bug is for all classes, not just 2h. What however is far more likely is that Panos isn't aware of the mechanic were sideblocks are based on which part of you the weapon hits, not which swing was swung. The least likely scenario is that there is an actual bug that no one but Ranthrex are able to execute.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on December 31, 2012, 02:22:59 am
Fix the lolstab. It can be ridiculous at times, it has more reach then nearly every polearm stab (greatswords that is, and some shorter swords even) which wouldn't be too terrible minus the fact that it can hit from almost any range if you know how to do it, and that's my main problem, when someone wielding a giant hunk of steel can literally hug me and still bring up a stab and hit me for full damage point blank because they looked up or wiggled their mouse as they released it.

Oh, also, hilt-slash is fucking dumb. But I gave up on the aspect of that ever being removed or fixed a long time ago. Fucking bastard swords outswing my 1h weapons all day now. Any 2h can really with the right amount of WPF and a fast enough click of the LMB.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:23:16 am
There is an actual glitch that let's you pass through blocks, but that's the one were you get the other player and then swing at his back while in/behind him by walking through him, but that bug is for all classes, not just 2h. What however is far more likely is that Panos isn't aware of the mechanic were sideblocks are based on which part of you the weapon hits, not which swing was swung. The least likely scenario is that there is an actual bug that no one but Ranthrex are able to execute.

So u agree he fails at blocking, just basic blocking.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 02:24:39 am
So u agree he fails at blocking, just basic blocking.

Idiot,we aren`t here to talk about my blocking skill..
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:25:37 am
Idiot,we aren`t here to talk about my blocking skill..

Well u just called something a ''bug'', when it was actually caused by ur poor blocking. Thats pretty important, since that makes it... not a bug, just ur blocking.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 31, 2012, 02:26:06 am
So u agree he fails at blocking, just basic blocking.
Yes, but I wouldn't really call it just basic blocking, the better 2h such as Wayyyyyne can trigger it quite unexpectedly through good footwork and timing, it is one of the few things that aren't easy to block.
And odds are he doesn't know about the mechanic, like most people, due to its rare use... but it could be some bug that we just don't know about and my theori of it being this could easily be wrong.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 02:26:55 am
Well u just called something a ''bug'', when it was actually caused by ur poor blocking. Thats pretty important, since that makes it... not a bug, just ur blocking.

I like big butts and I can`t deny.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:27:14 am
Yes, but I wouldn't really call it just basic blocking, the better 2h such as Wayyyyyne can trigger it quite unexpectedly through good footwork and timing, it is one of the few things that aren't easy to block.

Just give im the truth, there is no need to try and make him feel better. Its better if he hears the truth, just like u talked to me so far ;).

YOLO.

I feel sorry for your parents,If your dad knew how dumb his son would be,he would prefer to cum on the floor..

Here we go, parents card pulled out. U are rly getting desperate?^^
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Grumbs on December 31, 2012, 02:32:11 am
Panos take this how you like, but I highly recommend concentrating on the idea or argument rather than the personality. Attack the subject if you want, but not some random guy on the internet. You don't need insults to make a point. It will just make your own points look weaker because you seem to have some personal interest in what you say due to the persons involved rather than the actual subject matter

Anyway, I don't want you muted or banned and you might be on a slimmer thread than you realise

Ignore those thousands of +'s btw, people want that drama as long as its not them getting banned :D

Also same with GTX..doesn't matter one bit what some random guy on the internet thinks. Just stick to the main point
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:33:22 am
Panos take this how you like, but I highly recommend concentrating on the idea or argument rather than the personality. Attack the subject if you want, but not some random guy on the internet. You don't need insults to make a point. It will just make your own points look weaker because you seem to have some personal interest in what you say due to the persons involved rather than the actual subject matter

Anyway, I don't want you muted or banned and you might be on a slimmer thread than you realise

Ignore those thousands of +'s btw, people want that drama as long as its not them getting banned :D
Dude, what the hell are u doing!? xD. Damn u grumbs, damn u! :P
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 02:34:50 am
Panos take this how you like, but I highly recommend concentrating on the idea or argument rather than the personality. Attack the subject if you want, but not some random guy on the internet. You don't need insults to make a point. It will just make your own points look weaker because you seem to have some personal interest in what you say due to the persons involved rather than the actual subject matter

Anyway, I don't want you muted or banned and you might be on a slimmer thread than you realise

Ignore those thousands of +'s btw, people want that drama as long as its not them getting banned :D

I don`t care for + on my posts.

But you are right mate,GTX I apologize for insulting you mate.Got over my head once more.

Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: peter_afca7 on December 31, 2012, 04:08:46 am
All you 2h heroes are afraid for balance between classes because you know that you wont be mighty anymore if u can`t abuze certain bugs of the animations.

abusing animations, says the guy thats using a Glaive, you making me laugh panos
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Daniisme on December 31, 2012, 06:02:53 am
Thurst for polearms is fine, just learn how to use it....
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Vibe on December 31, 2012, 09:29:43 am
What thrust stun are we exactly talking about here, because I'm not getting it. The one that you get when your stab is blocked? Like cmp said it's slightly shorter for polearms.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Prpavi on December 31, 2012, 10:11:41 am
Have an idea here!

How bout since you both (Panos and GTX) play your respected classes "from day one" to switch and try different shit, play each other class as unbiased as possible and see if the things others say are true.

I play both classes, i like 2h more but all the buffs and nerfs won't make me quit either of them.

Why would you limit your self to only one class and lobby for it like its the last thing in the world, and all that in this mod that gives you freedom to do whatever. Go full thrower for one gen, i had a blast!

Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Falka on December 31, 2012, 10:25:14 am
something

Huge pile of donkey shit. And insults. Definitely not worth a reading.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Gurnisson on December 31, 2012, 01:06:41 pm
What thrust stun are we exactly talking about here, because I'm not getting it. The one that you get when your stab is blocked? Like cmp said it's slightly shorter for polearms.

But it's more deadly for polearm and 1h users than 2h because of the much lower reach.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 01:14:42 pm
abusing animations, says the guy thats using a Glaive, you making me laugh panos

chill bro.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


The glaive aint even mine,I`m just leeching gold to buy another polearm.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Joseph Porta on December 31, 2012, 02:04:49 pm
But it's more deadly for polearm and 1h users than 2h because of the much lower reach.
stabbing at the End of your range is always a poor idea.. Imo allthough because of the shorter reach you could easily be outmaneouvred(holy shat what did I type! :D) into doing one.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: highglandeur on December 31, 2012, 02:06:40 pm
i shall give you 20K panos out of great charity and greatness ouf soul, but put an offer on market i don't wanna touch your filthy peasant hands
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on December 31, 2012, 02:11:45 pm
i shall give you 20K panos out of great charity and greatness ouf soul, but put an offer on market i don't wanna touch your filthy peasant hands

haha no need to man, I leeched 500k so far (and tepes was kind enough to give 100k gold)

Edit : I meant to buy a +3 polearm :)
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: _GTX_ on December 31, 2012, 02:37:55 pm
Have an idea here!

How bout since you both (Panos and GTX) play your respected classes "from day one" to switch and try different shit, play each other class as unbiased as possible and see if the things others say are true.

I play both classes, i like 2h more but all the buffs and nerfs won't make me quit either of them.

Why would you limit your self to only one class and lobby for it like its the last thing in the world, and all that in this mod that gives you freedom to do whatever. Go full thrower for one gen, i had a blast!

I did, just not on my main. U know.... stf and alts ;). I did actually make a thrower stf.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: slimpyman on January 01, 2013, 05:00:34 pm
we dont need to remove thrust stun.   what is with crpgers these days. they want shit removed like crazy.

ok lets make a game with 1 weapon type, 1 weapon,  guaranteed to be balanced.  idiots...
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Prpavi on January 01, 2013, 06:54:44 pm
we dont need to remove thrust stun.   what is with crpgers these days. they want shit removed like crazy.

ok lets make a game with 1 weapon type, 1 weapon,  guaranteed to be balanced.  idiots...

Dude who the fuck are you?! and why are u in every topic acting like u own this shit, telling people they should shut up.

Fuck off.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on January 01, 2013, 07:32:37 pm
we dont need to remove thrust stun.   what is with crpgers these days. they want shit removed like crazy.

ok lets make a game with 1 weapon type, 1 weapon,  guaranteed to be balanced.  idiots...

Yeah but no offense buuut.....Who dafaq are cho?  :shock: I know not your ingame name and the way you have been going around thread to thread as if you are some vet player trying to be all smart and what not kinda just says you are some new guy who doesn't seem to understand how cRPG works in the "balance" department.

Pfft nubs these days, the cheek  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: slimpyman on January 02, 2013, 09:59:18 pm
Dude who the fuck are you?! and why are u in every topic acting like u own this shit, telling people they should shut up.

Fuck off.

dont be jealous im 2good4u.

im a completely ignorant bastard. I think im god, and too ignorant to believe anything others say.

speaking of who the fuck are yous,  who the fuck are you, you no-namer :)

haha be good and play safe.


i use polearm and i dont find thruststun to be a problem. if there is a healthy debate, id love to join, but its a risk reward system. not all weapon swing actions should be able to be repeated once every second.     if you stab a brick wall, you should be stunned for a moment.


for the record champs, Ive been playing since janurary 2011.   its 2013. im a 2 year vet, so i accept your apology in advance.

ive been through many changes and just want this game to continue to be a technical competitive game.

Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on January 03, 2013, 01:55:01 am
Hey prp`s don`t waste your time with that chump.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Cyclopsided on January 03, 2013, 03:12:16 am
Can't we just set the three thrust stun times to the same as the swing stun times? Or make it only slightly longer, instead of how much ridiculously longer it is?
I am of course referring to these in actions.


(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

NOTE: Slower weapon speeds take longer times to execute these animations to my understanding, explaining why pike and the lower speed polearms have effectively longer stun times than 2h.
Doesn't matter, my suggestion is the same for all of them.
I have not encountered any balance reason as to why the thrust stuns are uniformly longer than all other attack directions. Also, why the fuck aren't they all in order in the code, why is it out of order? sloppyyyy, made it hard to find.
Oh, and I didn't read past page 2 of this thread. Should I? Is there anything actually said of value? I'll read from here on.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Teeth on January 03, 2013, 10:52:04 am
Because 2h stab was hugely OP in Native and it had to have some drawbacks, a point which still stands for cRPG.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Cyclopsided on January 03, 2013, 11:07:17 am
Because 2h stab was hugely OP in Native and it had to have some drawbacks, a point which still stands for cRPG.
Thrust stun adversely affects the next swing, not that one. And that overpoweredness isn't the case in cRPG (at least, not to a huge extent). Imo, thrust stun should go to 0.4000 across the board. Still slightly more than all the other attack directions.

My point is that thrust stun should not make it so you Can not physically block their counter attack, that is the main problem with the current stun time values. It is too long of a stun duration. It isn't like my change will enable you to follow up with another attack before someone can attack back [ie; a double swing, castor swing, whatever you want to call it. ]. That won't happen at 0.4000. Just people won't be completely defenseless, they'll be able to block...
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on January 03, 2013, 11:48:36 am
Because 2h stab was hugely OP in Native and it had to have some drawbacks, a point which still stands for cRPG.

The only thing that is OP in 2h stab,is the goddamn lolstab animation and the ghostreach of it, not the damage.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Vibe on January 03, 2013, 11:57:42 am
The only thing that is OP in 2h stab,is the goddamn lolstab animation and the ghostreach of it, not the damage.

From my observation most of the 2h don't have ghost reach, except for 2h like the barmace and highland claymore i believe
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on January 03, 2013, 12:04:46 pm
From my observation most of the 2h don't have ghost reach, except for 2h like the barmace and highland claymore i believe

a stab can outreach a heavy lance  :shock:
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on January 03, 2013, 12:08:33 pm
a stab can outreach a heavy lance  :shock:

The overhead of the warcleaver can outrange a swiss and longer, also with sideswings, also the danish can, etc, etc.

And weapons like Warcleaver have ghostrange like hell. And the 2H stab is just long, theres no ghosreach, its just waaay to long.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Teeth on January 03, 2013, 12:10:33 pm
Thrust stun adversely affects the next swing, not that one. And that overpoweredness isn't the case in cRPG (at least, not to a huge extent). Imo, thrust stun should go to 0.4000 across the board. Still slightly more than all the other attack directions.
Whether it affects the next swing or the thrust itself is besides the point, it is a disadvantage of using the thrust. As soon as it is 0.4, the stun is completely irrelevant, because I am not even sure if any weapon can execute an attack within that time.

Correct me if I am wrong, but there are two different stun things for the thrusts right? Your thrust doesn't always get stunned like that when it is blocked. So isn't the duration of that base stun not already something around 0.3, with the 0.7 one only happening when you execute a bad stab?

My main gripe with this thrust stun is that when I use a 2h, I know exactly when it happens, and it never happens otherwise aside from hitting an object. Hitting very late in the animation, ergo dragging the stab into someone gets you stunned. Which is excellent, because that is one of the lamest things in the game, the 2h thrust swipe of doom, that shit should get punished. The 2h stab does damage far beyond the point it should anyway, when it is already starting to retract. Getting punished for hitting objects and doing very late dragging stabs is something I strongly encourage.

However, when I use it with the longspear, might just be the weapon and not the class. The only way I can hit is doing dragging hits, not nearly as late into the animation as 2h, but I can't put my finger on when I can expect the thrust stun to happen. When I hit an object or the floor, I am completely okay with hit, I fucked up so I should get fucked. But half the time I do a stab as always and suddenly I stand there staring at my limp stick for a full second.

On the point of 2h stab OP-ness in cRPG. It used to be slow but long, while the polearm stab was short and fast. The polearm stab is still short and fast, but now the 2h stab is also fast and can do instahits on facehug range as easily as polearm can and could. It is also able to hit incredibly late as incredibly early into the animation, which makes it almost impossible to chamber. It basically has no weaknesses apart from the thrust stun, which is why I wouldn't want it gone from cRPG. I don't want it gone for poles either, I just would like it to feel less random.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Vibe on January 03, 2013, 12:34:08 pm
However, when I use it with the longspear, might just be the weapon and not the class. The only way I can hit is doing dragging hits, not nearly as late into the animation as 2h, but I can't put my finger on when I can expect the thrust stun to happen. When I hit an object or the floor, I am completely okay with hit, I fucked up so I should get fucked. But half the time I do a stab as always and suddenly I stand there staring at my limp stick for a full second.

Think it has to do with how late in the animation the stab is blocked. Since you're always dragging hits, you always get your stab blocked slightly later in the animation I guess. Couple that with the slow speed of the weapon (probably affects the whole thing somehow) and you have a thrust stun that seems random, but probably isn't.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Cyclopsided on January 04, 2013, 12:40:07 am
Whether it affects the next swing or the thrust itself is besides the point, it is a disadvantage of using the thrust. As soon as it is 0.4, the stun is completely irrelevant, because I am not even sure if any weapon can execute an attack within that time.  What? Can you re-word that? That made no sense

Correct me if I am wrong, but there are two different stun things for the thrusts right? Your thrust doesn't always get stunned like that when it is blocked. So isn't the duration of that base stun not already something around 0.3, with the 0.7 one only happening when you execute a bad stab?
I'm correcting you.  0.7 is not only when you execute a bad stab, it's just always. You've got some crazy placebo shit, yo.

As for the rest of your post complaining about 2h balance, okay. That doesn't have to deal with what is in question. You're upset about the 2h stab animation being OP, and it is. It has incredible reach and the points you made earlier. I present you with this: that is a separate issue that should be solved in a different thread.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on January 04, 2013, 02:43:42 am
I present you with this: that is a separate issue that should be solved in a different thread.

Aaaaand in which? Inform me please, when we got a different thread.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Cyclopsided on January 04, 2013, 03:13:45 am
Aaaaand in which? Inform me please, when we got a different thread.
I think you misunderstood me, but <3s.
 This topic is about thrust-stun.  I am merely saying that the off topic argument about 2h thrust animations being overpowered belong in any of the numerous threads complaining about it. Also, that lowering the stun duration for thrusts across the board will not suddenly make 2h more OP than it is [ it won't change any over-arching class balance ie; pole vs 1h vs 2h balance], it's a silly notion. I wouldn't want that anyway, I would like to see 2h get a modified thrust animation from where it is personally -- but that is off topic.
 I am not a 2h player (though I've played a lot of it), I normally use poles or 1h when I do melee, I find them fun. But I'd like a more fluid combat than what we have now -- with our out-dated over emphasized thrust stun that can punish a player by making them unable to block an incoming attack after doing a thrust attack.

Do you catch my drift?
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Knitler on January 04, 2013, 03:21:14 am
Do you catch my drift?

Ye, but still we can rename that thread with something like; Polearm vs. TwoHanded,

Just saying, it will never be like you want to have it, some guys will always start to say an argument which dont really belongs to the subject.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Cyclopsided on January 04, 2013, 03:37:55 am
 I know that. It's a fact of life, but I can steer this to be on topic. ^_^
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Teeth on January 04, 2013, 05:27:46 pm
I'm correcting you.  0.7 is not only when you execute a bad stab, it's just always. You've got some crazy placebo shit, yo.
Hell no, you sometimes get stunned after doing a stab which makes you unable to block the opponents attack. If that would always happen nobody would even dare to touch the thrust. As a longspearman, I can say this to be true 100%, which makes me wonder why I wasn't sure when I wrote the last post. I can block 1h leftswings after a stab no problem, unless I get the long stun by hitting an object or whatever else causes it.

Maybe it is 0.7 everytime, which is in that case long enough to block even the fastest weapons. Which would mean that there is a second stun of longer duration. Or the normal stun is 0.3-0.4 ish and the longer one is 0.7, which is in that case long enough for someone to finish an attack. Either way, there is two stuns with different durations.

As for the rest of your post complaining about 2h balance, okay. That doesn't have to deal with what is in question. You're upset about the 2h stab animation being OP, and it is. It has incredible reach and the points you made earlier. I present you with this: that is a separate issue that should be solved in a different thread.
Of course it is related. The OP states the removal of a negative effect for one class only, which implies that that class is weaker than the other. So whether the class deserves to be put ahead of the others is definitely part of the discussion. We are not even talking about a removal of stun effects accross the board.

About rephrasing my statement:

The thrust stun is such a noticable thing, because it is long enough to not be able to block the next attack of your opponent in a 1 vs 1. Whether you change it to 0.3 or 0.5 wouldn't matter that much, because you are then always able to always block after your thrust gets blocked. Greatly reducing the risk of using a thrust and making thrust stun pretty much a non issue completely.
Title: Re: Remove thrust stun for poles.
Post by: Panos on January 04, 2013, 05:31:13 pm
Ok,I think it`s time to lock this thread.