cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Froto_the_Loc on December 01, 2012, 04:47:50 am

Title: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on December 01, 2012, 04:47:50 am
I'm not quite sure what it is called, but something is wrong.

It's frustrating. I swing left, they block with a left.
I get behind someone and use a right swing, they could just throw up a right block and my footwork is null.

I know I can't be the only one experiencing this.

What's it called, and why is it in the mod?

Just ignore me.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Gristle on December 01, 2012, 04:56:29 am
I'm not sure, but it needs a nerf. When my 97 speed weapon is easily blocked all day, something is very wrong.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Kelugarn on December 01, 2012, 05:35:05 am
I'm not sure, but it needs a nerf. When my 101 speed weapon is easily blocked all day, something is very wrong.

Story of my life.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: San on December 01, 2012, 06:05:47 am
To some people, it makes sense that you block where the weapon and your block collide. I remember that there was some contention when this feature was temporarily removed some time ago. This means turning into your blocks, being able to block people slightly behind you.

You could get unlucky and they could block you (many times unwittingly). Strafing so you purely hit the back or using overhead/stab might be more reliable, though.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: a_bear_irl on December 01, 2012, 06:28:26 am
it's been like that forever, and it wouldn't make sense if it were removed. attacks from behind getting blocked probably means you're too close to them when you start your swing (the tip of your weapon is ending up in front of them)
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Visconti on December 01, 2012, 08:43:20 am
Blocks are based on where your weapon is, been like that since the beta im pretty sure. I quite like it, makes footwork that much more important
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Teeth on December 01, 2012, 11:41:51 am
You can block a left attack with a left block as long as you've angled it right and same goes for right block. It should be that way, as long as there is a block in between the attack and you, why shouldn't it block? I remember when it was accidentally removed in a patch and I cried my eyes out, cause it became apparent that I did it all the time.

To me it is very useful in group fights where you can block multiple people in a row with minimal camera turning.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Kafein on December 01, 2012, 11:44:30 am
I'm fine with weapons blocking attacks coming from the back. I'm just not fine with shields not doing the same in the same conditions (the enemy weapon first colliding with the shield model).
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Paul on December 01, 2012, 12:33:43 pm
Combining attacker/defender stun and crushthrough mechanic with the relative angle of the block might be interesting.

Perfect (angle) block -> attacker stun, no defender stun, anti-crushthrough bonus
Sloppy block -> more stun for defender and eventually increased crushthough likeliness
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Leshma on December 01, 2012, 01:21:53 pm
Combining attacker/defender stun and crushthrough mechanic with the relative angle of the block might be interesting.

You're reading my mind. I was checking this topic and thought, well guys I do agree with you but this is simple game. If this was sophisticated simulation with a chance for block to fail under certain conditions, blocking from behind wouldn't stop attacks every time.

And then you come up with a way to implement this. Big plus for you, Paul. I hope you're willing to code that yourself :)
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Mlekce on December 01, 2012, 01:35:33 pm
I'm not sure, but it needs a nerf. When my 97 speed weapon is easily blocked all day, something is very wrong.

what if i tell you that i have mw Liuyedao that have 103 speed and ppl are blocking this easily.  :D Skill of crpg players is too god damn high.

Did u ever see rantrex blocking 2-3 players that swing different cind of attack with only one block? I saw it few times.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Corsair831 on December 01, 2012, 01:46:45 pm
crpg has much lower weapon speeds than native, which the engine was designed for, therefore things are incredibly easy to block ... Solution ... take weapon speeds back up to native ...
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: cmp on December 01, 2012, 02:25:13 pm
crpg has much lower weapon speeds than native

Only if you don't take looms into account.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Corsair831 on December 01, 2012, 04:32:34 pm
Only if you don't take looms into account.

go to nditions and use a two handed sword, or a greatsword for a few minutes, then go to eu_3 and use a +3 greatsword or 2h sword with an 18/21 build (high wpf) and you'll notice just how much slower it is, even with an agi build and a loomed weapon
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Gurnisson on December 01, 2012, 04:54:45 pm
Go 18/21 with rags and a HBS/Scimi. Doesn't feel slow anymore. :P
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Osiris on December 01, 2012, 04:59:32 pm
true to be fair in nditions you wear no Armour so no weight  8-)
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on December 01, 2012, 05:41:13 pm
What caused me the frustration is I attacked a guy with a left, he blocked, then I threw a right at him, his block didn't change and he barely turned and it blocked.
Hell, I'm not even sure he turned at all.

If you miss a block, why should you not be punished with damage?
It makes me feel...powerless. Two of my swings are blocked with one block, an overhead misses, and a stab glances.
Yet weapons bend around my shield?
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: cmp on December 01, 2012, 05:42:53 pm
go to nditions and use a two handed sword, or a greatsword for a few minutes, then go to eu_3 and use a +3 greatsword or 2h sword with an 18/21 build (high wpf) and you'll notice just how much slower it is, even with an agi build and a loomed weapon

Combat speed
Nditions: medium
cRPG: medium

Weapon speed
Nditions: 98 (Bastard Sword)
cRPG: 101 (Bastard Sword, not loomed)

Effective WPF
Nditions: 130 (Swadian Infantry, cloth)
cRPG: 163 (18/21 build, cloth)

Yes, that is so much slower. Have you considered not using a Greatsword maybe?
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Falka on December 01, 2012, 05:55:04 pm
(click to show/hide)
Hm, I thought in native agility increases speed of weapon. Isn't it true? Anyway my +3 HBS doesn't seem slow  :wink:
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: cmp on December 01, 2012, 05:57:39 pm
Hm, I thought in native agility increases speed of weapon. Isn't it true?

No.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Kafein on December 01, 2012, 06:00:53 pm
Don't ever try to prove Cmp, Paul or Espu wrong about Warband, cause they are not.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Osiris on December 01, 2012, 06:03:53 pm
native feels faster because you wear nothing and the lolstab is still hardcore :P also feinting while looking at your feet and all the shit crpg took out to make it better makes native look faster.

Also a major point is most nditions users feint spam ^^ watch atze or Qoray feint and its still really fast. difference is most crpg duelers don't feint as much
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Tot. on December 01, 2012, 07:52:11 pm
Combat speed
Nditions: medium
cRPG: medium

Average player skill in Native isn't so much higher than in here because they have a slower game. Combat is way more sluggish in cRPG than in Native, much more laggy, missing animations, glances for no good reason and all sorts of other problems like your weapon getting stuck on things even behind you (sic). Fixing that instead of messing up melee system even further would be nice, starting with those abominations which are turn speed limitation and the "early active animations", or whatever you want to call the thing that makes you unable to fight properly unless there's several yards of free space in every direction.

Playing Native really gives more perspective on how fluid and fun the melee system once was in here.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Jarlek on December 01, 2012, 08:15:25 pm
go to nditions and use a two handed sword, or a greatsword for a few minutes, then go to eu_3 and use a +3 greatsword or 2h sword with an 18/21 build (high wpf) and you'll notice just how much slower it is, even with an agi build and a loomed weapon
Takes a greatsword, whines about slow combat speed.

Fuck you.

I'm just sick of greatsword users whining about the combat speed being slow. How about NOT taking the long high damaging weapons?

Hilarious when they also whine about longsword/1h swords being too fast too.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Kafein on December 01, 2012, 08:18:34 pm
Takes a greatsword, whines about slow combat speed.

Fuck you.

I'm just sick of greatsword users whining about the combat speed being slow. How about NOT taking the long high damaging weapons?

Hilarious when they also whine about longsword/1h swords being too fast too.

Funny because it's true
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 01, 2012, 08:36:40 pm
Takes a greatsword, whines about slow combat speed.

Fuck you.

I'm just sick of greatsword users whining about the combat speed being slow. How about NOT taking the long high damaging weapons?

Hilarious when they also whine about longsword/1h swords being too fast too.
Only 9 or higher wm stackers with weapons with unloomed 100 or higher speeds should be allowed to complain about a to low gamespeed.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Leshma on December 01, 2012, 08:36:44 pm
HBS is too fast, same goes for Miaodao.

Greatsword isn't slow. Danish GS and German GS now are a bit slow but not Greatsword.

Last balance changes did nothing, two handed class is even stronger than before.

Funny thing is that I have most of the current OP weapons yet can't sell them that easily.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on December 01, 2012, 08:49:27 pm
Combat speed
Nditions: medium
cRPG: medium

Weapon speed
Nditions: 98 (Bastard Sword)
cRPG: 101 (Bastard Sword, not loomed)

Effective WPF
Nditions: 130 (Swadian Infantry, cloth)
cRPG: 163 (18/21 build, cloth)

Yes, that is so much slower. Have you considered not using a Greatsword maybe?

Ya people keep saying that native is so much faster than CRPG, which i have never understood. Your capable of significantly higher amounts of WPF in CRPG than in native which is quite low, not even taking into account the higher weapon speeds in CRPG. And i mean just play native, everything is slow motion, in CRPG watch two good players duel everything is extremly fast. And if things where faster in native (harder) they would be good at dueling or mount and blade in general, but they are pretty easy to beat its rare to find a good native player, and they usually also play CRPG.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on December 01, 2012, 09:03:44 pm
Its just that the animations are different
Thats why it makes native faster for example the 2h thrust in native
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Xscizorx on December 01, 2012, 09:28:20 pm
try harder
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Kelugarn on December 02, 2012, 12:04:48 am
18/21
164 Polearm wpf
+3 quarter staff (101 speed)
.8 total armor weight

Game feels slow.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Arrowblood on December 02, 2012, 12:18:27 am
2 quivers of arrows, game feels slow.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Leshma on December 02, 2012, 12:22:23 am
Feels slow with one quiver and only 6 ath. And I'm using bodkins.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Armycook_of_KSantiago on December 02, 2012, 12:29:28 am
Dunno why but every native server i went is fastest combat speed, and greatsword have 96 speed and 42 cut damage....
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Corsair831 on December 02, 2012, 01:00:19 am
Combat speed
Nditions: medium
cRPG: medium

Weapon speed
Nditions: 98 (Bastard Sword)
cRPG: 101 (Bastard Sword, not loomed)

Effective WPF
Nditions: 130 (Swadian Infantry, cloth)
cRPG: 163 (18/21 build, cloth)

Yes, that is so much slower. Have you considered not using a Greatsword maybe?

Two Handed Sword, i said nothing about the bastard sword, the one you recently buffed in speed

 -_-


I wasnt only talking about that anyway, try some other weapons they're all vastly slower in crpg even with looms and high WPF
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Haboe on December 02, 2012, 01:15:35 am
Whats with blocking you say?

I think you use the wrong part of your body to block

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Kato on December 02, 2012, 01:35:32 am
Two Handed Sword, i said nothing about the bastard sword, the one you recently buffed in speed

 -_-


I wasnt only talking about that anyway, try some other weapons they're all vastly slower in crpg even with looms and high WPF

Yeah, all we need is absolutely broken internal weapon balance like in native, where long high damaging weapon are almost as quick as shorter weapons. :rolleyes:

Try to play agi build in rags. Speed with some weapons is insane.

Native feels more fluid (probably mostly because of lolstab animation) and less laggy (on nditions few others good server, most native small server are super laggy, way more than crpg), but certainly its not quicker.

The reasons why people find fighting in native to be more fun:

- not boring opponents (thanks to lolstab and almost no armor )


And medium speed is the best in my opinion, fastest speed takes whole bunch of skil away(where only feintspam and pure twitch reflexes stay)
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Corsair831 on December 02, 2012, 02:33:35 am
Yeah, all we need is absolutely broken internal weapon balance like in native, where long high damaging weapon are almost as quick as shorter weapons. :rolleyes:

Try to play agi build in rags. Speed with some weapons is insane.

Native feels more fluid (probably mostly because of lolstab animation) and less laggy (on nditions few others good server, most native small server are super laggy, way more than crpg), but certainly its not quicker.

The reasons why people find fighting in native to be more fun:

- not boring opponents (thanks to lolstab and almost no armor )


And medium speed is the best in my opinion, fastest speed takes whole bunch of skil away(where only feintspam and pure twitch reflexes stay)

in native 2h being powerful is balanced out by archers actually being able to hit something (unlike crpg).

and even agi in rags is slower than native normal
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Osiris on December 02, 2012, 11:03:58 am
odd in most native battle servers i don't feel as fast as you keep making out corsair. Nditions feels fast but that's due to crazy feints and no armour and the insane speed of the stab
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Falka on December 02, 2012, 12:27:01 pm
balanced out by archers actually being able to hit something (unlike crpg).
:shock:             :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on December 02, 2012, 12:27:14 pm
Who in their right mind plays native anyways? A load of epeen whoring, marco abusing retards; backed up by horses than have double the hp of crpg horses, pinpoint bows and xbows and dont get me started on the horse archers of native..... Any duels I had on native were boring as hell, even their supposed best players such as tobi, all had the same super defensive playerstyle, with a set pattern of difficult to see macro feints... There is no fluidity or variance in this, no need to adapt to new playstyles....
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Leshma on December 02, 2012, 12:35:50 pm
Not to mention that autoblockers are "free" in native. Native is awful.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: cmp on December 02, 2012, 01:26:31 pm
native
balanced
archers

It should be forbidden by law to put those 3 words in the same sentence.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Paul on December 02, 2012, 01:33:40 pm
For Native clan matches archers were actually kinda balanced. Shield was a must for inf though then. The bad thing were xbowmen who had the best of both worlds: ranged and a shield to be protected from ranged when relocating. The Russians actually won the first NC with their scatter&shoot tactic with xbows. Our German team did rather well although being very inf heavy.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Tot. on December 02, 2012, 02:01:05 pm
Who in their right mind plays native anyways? A load of epeen whoring, marco abusing retards; backed up by horses than have double the hp of crpg horses, pinpoint bows and xbows ...

Even with crazily overpowered ranged native battle is still way better than cRPG 2 minute duels with multiple successful hits and no kills just to get lanced in the back or shot. Or your weapon gets stuck on a teammate thats 2 meters behind you. People with too much hp, wearing too much armor and too many bullshit glances.

On side note, yeah, macroing should be bannable so there aren't retards like Tobi, though a lot of things in Warband isn't working competitive-wise, one might start with transparent walls and no way to detect that. WB is just a fun little game with cool melee system, noone sane takes it seriously once you realize how defenseless it is against people who got to win at any cost.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Corsair831 on December 02, 2012, 02:08:18 pm
Who in their right mind plays native anyways? A load of epeen whoring, marco abusing retards; backed up by horses than have double the hp of crpg horses, pinpoint bows and xbows and dont get me started on the horse archers of native..... Any duels I had on native were boring as hell, even their supposed best players such as tobi, all had the same super defensive playerstyle, with a set pattern of difficult to see macro feints... There is no fluidity or variance in this, no need to adapt to new playstyles....

yes, blueberry_of_swadia, i remember you very well duelling on native

these players you say who play native, a lot of them are very very good, this lack of adaptation you're talking about is in fact just skill, and whilst i dont like the feint abuse on duel servers these days, the best native players are still 10x the best crpg players.

The horses are weaker in native than crpg as well, hunter vs. +3 destrier ?

Horse archers in native are currently rubbish, they took a huge nerf about a year ago, and the archers and xbows are not as OP as you crpg players all seem to think.

Also, CMP if you want to talk about balance, the whole reason i pulled out of the CRPG nations cup is because the balance on CRPG is so bad, every round the guys who won were the guys with the most armour and ironflesh, and all of them 2h.

I think the best way to think about it is

Native = skillful/ balanced but unchanging game great for clan play but stale in public

CRPG = nooby but fun pubfest where there's always something new going on, but dont even think about clanbattles on it

EDIT: also, in crpg, you can play as a samurai :3
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Gurnisson on December 02, 2012, 02:12:34 pm
For Native clan matches archers were actually kinda balanced. Shield was a must for inf though then. The bad thing were xbowmen who had the best of both worlds: ranged and a shield to be protected from ranged when relocating. The Russians actually won the first NC with their scatter&shoot tactic with xbows. Our German team did rather well although being very inf heavy.

Pretty much all classes could be made unbalanced, not just factions with xbowmen. Vaegirs got free scimitars. I remember getting our archers to spawn what they wanted of bows, arrows and armor but one extra scimitar. Infantry spawning without a melee weapon but 2 shields (which even is cheaper than getting a scimi + shield). Made vaegirs stupidly op. In 1st round you could have archers with war bow, scimitar and kite shield and infantry with scimi, kite shield and 2 stack of javelins...
Could do somewhat the same with nords, having 1-2 nord scout who spawned 4 stacks of javs each and get a melee weapon + shield from the huscarl's making nords insane as well. Swads/rhodoks could also switch around, xbowmen giving free xbow and bolts to infantry, getting free 1-handed sword and a decent shield back.

Problem with native was that without ranged you were nothing. That's why we always abused the system to get as much ranged as possible (see above). Without (melee) infantry you could still rape, without cavalry you could as well. Without ranged you were pretty much fucked, even when waiting for flags. Two-handers and polearms (except spears useable with shields) were mostly useless in clan battles. All infantry would carry as many throwing weapons as possible or get those free xbows from their ranged. I remember seeing 1H and archery having over 1/3 of kills in a native tournament, headshots, lances and throwing next in line with 2H at a massive 5 % of kills. Balanced, I think not.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Oberyn on December 02, 2012, 02:13:31 pm
I'm going to guess you never actually played much clan battles in cRPG. Also, you didn't "pull out" of cRPG nation's cup since it never actually happened. Which team were you in?
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Corsair831 on December 02, 2012, 02:15:32 pm
Pretty much all classes could be made unbalanced, not just factions with xbowmen. Vaegirs got free scimitars. I remember getting our archers to spawn what they wanted of bows, arrows and armor but one extra scimitar. Infantry spawning without a melee weapon but 2 shields (which even is cheaper than getting a scimi + shield). Made vaegirs stupidly op. In 1st round you could have archers with war bow, scimitar and kite shield and infantry with scimi, kite shield and 2 stack of javelins...
Could do somewhat the same with nords, having 1-2 nord scout who spawned 4 stacks of javs each and get a melee weapon + shield from the huscarl's making nords insane as well. Swads/rhodoks could also switch around, xbowmen giving free xbow and bolts to infantry, getting free 1-handed sword and a decent shield back.

Problem with native was that without ranged you were nothing. That's why we always abused the system to get as much ranged as possible (see above). Without (melee) infantry you could still rape, without cavalry you could as well. Without ranged you were pretty much fucked, even when waiting for flags. Two-handers and polearms (except spears useable with shields) were mostly useless in clan battles. All infantry would carry as many throwing weapons as possible or get those free xbows from their ranged. I remember seeing 1H and archery having over 1/3 of kills in a native tournament, headshots, lances and throwing next in line with 2H at a massive 5 % of kills. Balanced, I think not.

that's totally untrue, without melee/cav you're absolutely screwed.

that's just total bs gurni lol.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Falka on December 02, 2012, 02:18:49 pm
the best native players are still 10x the best crpg players.
And this number you pulled right out of your ass, am I right?  :wink:
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Corsair831 on December 02, 2012, 02:20:45 pm
And this number you pulled right out of your ass, am I right?  :wink:

nope, just played a lot against both
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Miwiw on December 02, 2012, 02:21:02 pm
yes, blueberry_of_swadia, i remember you very well duelling on native

muffin = blueberry?  :shock:
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Oberyn on December 02, 2012, 02:22:56 pm
Yeah, just look at all high end clan battles in native or the native Nation's Cup, ranged totally aren't an essential component of every team, it's not just a constant camp-off and maneuvering around each other in order to get enemy under attack from your ranged, it's not like any melee that IS around is always 1hshield/throwing because not having a shield is automatically suicidal, since bows/xbows are ridiculously accurate repeating rifles.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Corsair831 on December 02, 2012, 02:23:01 pm
muffin = blueberry?  :shock:

dunno, kind of assumed he was the same guy, same name n all o.O

Quote
Yeah, just look at all high end clan battles in native or the native Nation's Cup, ranged totally aren't an essential component of every team, it's not just a constant camp-off and maneuvering around each other in order to get enemy under attack from your ranged, it's not like any melee that IS around is always 1hshield/throwing because not having a shield is automatically suicidal, since bows/xbows are ridiculously accurate repeating rifles.

it's not like 2h doesn't have a place in native lol, it's just not the same place it has in crpg ... in native it's more of a mass melee type of thing, someone pulls one out and spams to holy hell ... only difference in crpg is you dont need a mass melee to pull one out, just spam to holy hell anyway ;P
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Miwiw on December 02, 2012, 02:26:17 pm
I'd rather doubt it though.

Anyway, Archery in native is a bit too op. Though considering EVERY player has a shield, it gets some balance. While I played native in clan battles there was no way to complain about archery. I still remember the IG vs REF battle, it was a bigger battle back then, but a smaller battle at all, 15vs15. There was 20vs20 and more before.
Anyway, REF had like 75% Archers and we did the same in IG to counter that on Ruins map. Was a lot of fun and I couldn't say anything bad about that battle.
But once a team only has archers or ranged in their team, there's something wrong. A good battle in native was quite good balanced, class-wise.

With Rhodoks as faction, we usually went 9 Crossbowmen, 1 Cav and 2 Infantry out of 12 Players. Good times!
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Oberyn on December 02, 2012, 02:31:32 pm
dunno, kind of assumed he was the same guy, same name n all o.O

it's not like 2h doesn't have a place in native lol, it's just not the same place it has in crpg ... in native it's more of a mass melee type of thing, someone pulls one out and spams to holy hell ... only difference in crpg is you dont need a mass melee to pull one out, just spam to holy hell anyway ;P

2h may have a place in native pubs where the average skill level is abysmal and one feint is enough to throw most people into helpess confusion (exceptions being the extremely low populated Nditions duel server and IG_battlegrounds, the servers with the most players by far are the ZHG noob fests), but they have literally no place whatsoever in clan battles.
Again, I'm guessing you haven't played many clan battles in cRPG, since even then shieldless inf are much less usefull than 1hshielders, for pretty much the same reasons. You can camp and maneuver and retreat all you want and watch the poor helpess 2h get raped by ranged, cav and mobbed by 1h shielders (longspears/pikes on the other hand are pretty friggin usefull). Spamming like a retard might net you some kills in cRPG pubs, if you think it works in clan battles you obviously haven't played many.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: cmp on December 02, 2012, 02:31:53 pm
muffin = blueberry?  :shock:

No, different player.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Chasey on December 02, 2012, 02:34:56 pm
2h may have a place in native pubs where the average skill level is abysmal and one feint is enough to throw most people into helpess confusion (exceptions being the extremely low populated Nditions duel server and IG_battlegrounds, the servers with the most players by far are the ZHG noob fests), but they have literally no place whatsoever in clan battles.
Again, I'm guessing you haven't played many clan battles in cRPG, since even then shieldless inf are much less usefull than 1hshielders, for pretty much the same reasons. You can camp and maneuver and retreat all you want and watch the poor helpess 2h get raped by ranged, cav and mobbed by 1h shielders (longspears/pikes on the other hand are pretty friggin usefull). Spamming like a retard might net you some kills in cRPG pubs, if you think it works in clan battles you obviously haven't played many.
Shogunate was a no shield clan and won all their clan battles if i remember correctly
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Oberyn on December 02, 2012, 02:39:03 pm
Bullshit, as far as I remember Shogunate was specifically designed around a 1hshielder+longspear partnering with a couple of plate armored 2h thrown in for good measure.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on December 02, 2012, 02:41:07 pm
Who in their right mind plays native anyways? A load of epeen whoring, marco abusing retards; backed up by horses than have double the hp of crpg horses, pinpoint bows and xbows and dont get me started on the horse archers of native..... Any duels I had on native were boring as hell, even their supposed best players such as tobi, all had the same super defensive playerstyle, with a set pattern of difficult to see macro feints... There is no fluidity or variance in this, no need to adapt to new playstyles....
Really?
Wow because this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cVMhbrESHQ) does look a-lot like duels in C-RPG.
Hmmm.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Araxiel on December 02, 2012, 02:41:26 pm
Bullshit, as far as I remember Shogunate was specifically designed around a 1hshielder+longspear partnering with a couple of plate armored 2h thrown in for good measure.
This.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Dalhi on December 02, 2012, 02:45:02 pm
I still remember the IG vs REF battle

I remember this battle as well, probably best clan match I have ever played in Warband.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Corsair831 on December 02, 2012, 02:45:36 pm
Bullshit, as far as I remember Shogunate was specifically designed around a 1hshielder+longspear partnering with a couple of plate armored 2h thrown in for good measure.

he means on native, i think
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Oberyn on December 02, 2012, 02:50:02 pm
I didn't even know Shogunate existed and played clan matches on native, and I really really doubt they won all their clan matches as pure shieldless inf squad there. I think he might be talking about cRPG clan matches since Shogunate had great success in those tournaments people used to organize when Strat wasn't around, and afaik they were undefeated.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Razzer on December 02, 2012, 02:57:52 pm
Native is and will always be the best, get along with it  8-)
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Leshma on December 02, 2012, 03:02:47 pm
You know what happens when you go to Taleworlds forum and say the same for cRPG?

I guess we, cRPG players, are too tolerant compared to our Native comrads.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on December 02, 2012, 03:07:46 pm
You know what happens when you go to Taleworlds forum and say the same for cRPG?

I guess we, cRPG players, are too tolerant compared to our Native comrads.
It's because many idiots play C-RPG. The kind of posts that go around here look like some 5 year old learnt how to press some keys on a keyboard.

Look over at the Spam subsection.
Just do it.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Osiris on December 02, 2012, 03:10:05 pm
i dont even see what the point of native vs crpg is :P This is a crpg forum we nearly all primarily play crpg. If you dislike it dont play ^^
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Oberyn on December 02, 2012, 03:15:46 pm
It's because many idiots play C-RPG. The kind of posts that go around here look like some 5 year old learnt how to press some keys on a keyboard.

Look over at the Spam subsection.
Just do it.

Why would we need to go to the spam subsection, we have a great example right here ^ .
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Leshma on December 02, 2012, 03:16:08 pm
It's because many idiots play C-RPG. The kind of posts that go around here look like some 5 year old learnt how to press some keys on a keyboard.

Look over at the Spam subsection.
Just do it.

And every Native player is genius, right?
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Falka on December 02, 2012, 03:43:58 pm
Bullshit, as far as I remember Shogunate was specifically designed around a 1hshielder+longspear partnering with a couple of plate armored 2h thrown in for good measure.

ye, they had plenty of 1h shielders  :wink:
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Oberyn on December 02, 2012, 03:49:46 pm
Lol the first clan tournament ever, before Strategus ever existed, when everyone was lvl 35+ armored monsters? You have any videos of the latest ones maybe?
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Angantyr on December 02, 2012, 04:07:39 pm
In regards to class balance in Native tournaments there's a reason balance was enforced as a rule in for example '5-a-Side' and that special 'melee' community maps were made in the second year of ENL to accomodate infantry more than the existing ones. In the (80+) ladder and scrim matches I've fought in ranged has played a primary role in as good as all of them (few exceptions, including two IG matches, some 22nd and one against Wolves, though of course the very earliest beta matches had a more random setup), often making up about half or more of the enemy team and few in the community seemed to be bothered by it - the reason I quit Native for good. Current cRPG balance is good in my opinion and most new changes are very sensible.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Falka on December 02, 2012, 04:11:53 pm
Lol the first clan tournament ever, before Strategus ever existed, when everyone was lvl 35+ armored monsters? You have any videos of the latest ones maybe?

Fallen tournament no. 5. Even more 1h shielders  :wink:


Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Oberyn on December 02, 2012, 04:18:32 pm
No no, not these shitty little 5 vs 5 fights in boxes. Actual clan battles with like 10 per side and on a map where maneuvering is possible.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: JackieChan on December 02, 2012, 04:33:16 pm
No no, not these shitty little 5 vs 5 fights in boxes. Actual clan battles with like 10 per side and on a map where maneuvering is possible.
During the Shogunate days, beeing a 1h Shielder was forbiden in the clan(as many other things), and using a shield in battle mod to. We only used the Old board shield(0 requirement at that time) during clan battles to protect against ranged.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Shemaforash on December 02, 2012, 04:40:26 pm
You guys need to stop making these threads, it's been proven long ago that competitive play belongs in native while public play belongs in cRPG.

You can whine how much you want but that's still going to be a fact and if there's need for proof on that point... Native, everyone has the same stats.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on December 02, 2012, 05:01:31 pm
Oberyn, you are talking out of your ass, Ujin wouldnt let me in the clan till i dropped the shield
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Adamar on December 02, 2012, 05:03:56 pm
You guys need to stop making these threads, it's been proven long ago that competitive play belongs in native while public play belongs in cRPG.

You can whine how much you want but that's still going to be a fact and if there's need for proof on that point... Native, everyone has the same stats.

Quite right. Crpg is meant for developing your own char. I was surprised at the lack of melee skill from players when I first logged in here.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Shemaforash on December 02, 2012, 05:09:37 pm
That's never what I said, I said that Native is for competitive play, cRPG isn't but has more fun public play. Which is why I play cRPG.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 02, 2012, 05:15:27 pm
Shemaforash is right, of course native is better for competitive play as there are no looms or levels or builds, it's silly to argue that c-rpg is more competitive when everyone are far from on equal ground.

And no, I prefer c-rpg over native, it's faster and a lot of bad mechanics have been made slightly less lame.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Corsair831 on December 02, 2012, 06:20:30 pm
exactly what i said all along, crpg = publol's, native = competetive
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on December 02, 2012, 06:43:28 pm
Some bullshit
Yeahhhh no.
He never said it was crap, he said what was true.
Native is for competive, which is why when you say "We are the best team in C-RPG" nobody gives two flying fucknuggets while if you're the best in native everybody knows you.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Osiris on December 02, 2012, 06:45:47 pm
unless you only play crpg :P i dont know or care whos the best native clan :D
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Shemaforash on December 02, 2012, 06:49:40 pm
unless you only play crpg :P i dont know or care whos the best native clan :D

Or people who simply don't give a crap about who's the best competitive clan, competitive play is the only thing that keeps me playing.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Osiris on December 02, 2012, 06:59:09 pm
ive never been in an active native clan so its crpg that keeps me going :D
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on December 02, 2012, 07:40:22 pm
.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: cmp on December 02, 2012, 07:58:05 pm
You guys need to stop making these threads, it's been proven long ago that competitive play belongs in native while public play belongs in cRPG.

It's been also "proven" long ago that cRPG is 527% better than Native, if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Falka on December 02, 2012, 08:06:44 pm
It's been also "proven" long ago that cRPG is 527% better than Native, if you know what I mean.
You'll have to excuse me, my dear cmp, but let's be precise. It's 526%, not 527%.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: autobus on December 02, 2012, 08:11:18 pm
I'd love to see someone saying that checkers are way more competitive than chess because all the figures in checkers are equal while chess are all about this stupid variety that dumbs up the game.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on December 02, 2012, 08:16:47 pm
I'd love to see someone saying that checkers are way more competitive than chess because all the figures in checkers are equal while chess are all about this stupid variety that dumbs up the game.
Thats a stupid analogy.
Both teams in chess have the same pieces, while in c-rpg there are many different "pieces" on both teams.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Cyber on December 02, 2012, 08:17:56 pm
Why another one of these threads  :D

Obvious native is gonna be hated on in cRPG forums and vice versa.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on December 02, 2012, 08:20:32 pm
Why another one of these threads  :D

Obvious native is gonna be hated on in cRPG forums and vice versa.
It started about "op" block mechanics, but somehow native got involved.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 02, 2012, 09:15:20 pm
I'd love to see someone saying that checkers are way more competitive than chess because all the figures in checkers are equal while chess are all about this stupid variety that dumbs up the game.
In chess everyone still has the same bricks, and the bricks start at the same spots, and regardless of how long you play chess you'll never get a real unfair advantage against your opponent, if you play chess for three straight years and your opponent has only played for one day it doesn't mean all your bricks besides the king becomes queens.

Native is more competitive than c-rpg, but fuck that, c-rpg is a lot more fun.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Osiris on December 02, 2012, 09:18:56 pm
it depends how you organise :P I know Internal templar tournaments are STF only no looms which is pretty fun :) Like native but you can pick your equip and build
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Shemaforash on December 03, 2012, 12:07:16 am
It's been also "proven" long ago that cRPG is 527% better than Native, if you know what I mean.

Well I don't really have any proof except for the fact that everyone has unique classes, which is enough proof in itself.

It's kind of difficult to prove a personal opinion though.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 03, 2012, 12:19:04 am
Don't ever try to prove Cmp, Paul or Espu wrong about Warband, cause they are not.

Dont' try to prove them wrong/question them about the raw data.  How they interpret the data is not always right  :twisted:

cRPG is way better than native btw (both game play and stats of equipment).  Native is a joke when you can't reliably ride a horse in a non-predictable manner, across two hills and a valley without one archer being able to pick you off.
Title: Re: What's with blocking?
Post by: Shemaforash on December 03, 2012, 12:28:10 am
Native is a joke when you can't reliably ride a horse in a non-predictable manner, across two hills and a valley without one archer being able to pick you off.

But that's just your player skill, I'm more than capable of doing that.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: SixThumbs on December 03, 2012, 04:26:42 pm
I've rarely been on a server on native where more than three people can block consistently and I top the charts more often. cRPG just has the customization and sense of progression but native has trumped it in the fun factor from time to time (when I want to rack up kills with less effort).

They both have their merits but both cause me to quit when something ridiculous starts happening that saps the enjoyment of the moment.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Uhtred_III_of_Bebbanburg on December 03, 2012, 04:38:31 pm
What the F*** is this "native"?!!??!!?11ONE11011ELEVEN11ONE101!?!
Is it some kind of religion?
If yes..
chadz is the only true God!
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Shemaforash on December 03, 2012, 04:59:59 pm
Everybody talks about this "native skill being awful only at a few select servers"

Well think it like this. IG_Battlegrounds is our EU1 and Wolfpack Siege and ZHG Siege is our EU2? Nditions is our EU3????? Not all of these random servers like ZHG_TDM where the playerskill is mostly below decent.

I like the way cRPG has gone, but that's because it's a mod, it needs official servers to work while native doesn't, (even though I'd love for that to happen)
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Corsair831 on December 05, 2012, 01:02:26 am
yeaaah so this thread has devolved into the old crpg guys who've played 2 hours of native calling archers OP ...

hey guys, native archers aren't OP, but w/e ...

honestly, you guys should stop trying to comment against me and shema on the whole native vs CRPG argument, i've played over 1000 hours of both games & i would imagine shema is the same ... most of you have played 37 minutes of native and 4000 hours of CRPG :/

the only point i had in this entire argument was not that CRPG is bad because i like CRPG, i'd just like the gameplay to be faster :) :)
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 05, 2012, 01:26:24 am
hey guys, native archers aren't OP, but w/e ...
They are, but, they're still WAY more fun to play against than c-rpgs my old friendchers because archers in native don't kite, if I dodge 100 arrows or my old friend out with a shield and somehow manage to reach native archers they'll pull out their sidearm in a gentlemanly manor and fight me, in c-rpg they'll pull out their 0 slot hammer if they need to make a block first, if not, then they'll run instantly... ...archery was ten times better implemented in native than c-rpg, it's one of the few things native does better.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: rustyspoon on December 05, 2012, 03:34:09 am
the only point i had in this entire argument was not that CRPG is bad because i like CRPG, i'd just like the gameplay to be faster :) :)

Need faster gameplay? Here you go:

Strength: 6
Agility: 33
Hit points: 41
Skills to attributes: 8
Power Strike: 2
Athletics: 11
Weapon Master: 10
Polearm: 190

In all seriousness though, grab yourself a spear and that build is hilariously fun.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Gurnisson on December 05, 2012, 04:47:48 am
They are, but, they're still WAY more fun to play against than c-rpgs my old friendchers because archers in native don't kite, if I dodge 100 arrows or my old friend out with a shield and somehow manage to reach native archers they'll pull out their sidearm in a gentlemanly manor and fight me, in c-rpg they'll pull out their 0 slot hammer if they need to make a block first, if not, then they'll run instantly... ...archery was ten times better implemented in native than c-rpg, it's one of the few things native does better.

Yes, they balanced it a bit out by giving the ranged players decent (not very good) melee weapons with a bit of wpf and ps, but most importantly, they gave infantry more athletics than ranged, making them able to catch them. That throwing is extremely potent and easy to get in native, definitely discourages kiting as well. Javs are relatively cheap, come in stacks of 5 and have high missile speed. If the archers doesn't get a shield dropped by allied infantry or loot from the ground, javs counters them quite nicely.

Problem with cRPG is you can make your own builds, and why wouldn't archers stack athletics and kite infantry? Deadlier than using a sidearm, for sure.

(click to show/hide)

Probably played even more than you, sair. Ranged is op in native, no hiding from that fact. I even abused that to the max when I was playing))
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Vaucanson on December 05, 2012, 04:36:02 pm
I don't know precisely what is going on with Crpg, but for the first time in two years, I have more fun playing native. No agispammers everywhere, autoblockers, or weird 2h weapons swinging 3 times in a sec.

Maybe I'll be back one day.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: cmp on December 05, 2012, 05:00:15 pm
I don't know precisely what is going on with Crpg, but for the first time in two years, I have more fun playing native. No agispammers everywhere, autoblockers, or weird 2h weapons swinging 3 times in a sec.

Translation: cRPG players are too good for me so I'll just go pwn noobs on ZHG servers.
Be careful not to join Nditions unless you want to uninstall the game.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Rebelyell on December 05, 2012, 05:04:11 pm
It's been also "proven" long ago that cRPG is 527% better than Native, if you know what I mean.
ofc cRPG is better other ways why we are here for f&^k sake?
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: BlueKnight on December 05, 2012, 05:08:06 pm
I like crpg
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 05, 2012, 05:10:05 pm
Be careful not to join Nditions unless you want to uninstall the game.
TBH Most people I've seen on Nditions are at best slightly a decent amount bellow c-rpgs average.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Vaucanson on December 05, 2012, 05:12:28 pm
Quote
"Translation: cRPG players are too good for me so I'll just go pwn noobs on ZHG servers.
Be careful not to join Nditions unless you want to uninstall the game."

I feared such stupid answer. The fact that i'm not a forum regular contributor is only that I had no special problem with Crpg, and was happy until this week. I am not one of the best players here, but I was regularly among the first 5 in team. But if you want to play only with the best players, go on. That's the fastest way to kill the mod.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: [ptx] on December 05, 2012, 05:34:47 pm
the only point i had in this entire argument was not that CRPG is bad because i like CRPG, i'd just like the gameplay to be faster :) :)
That is why you wanted chamberblocking removed, right? :lol:
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Shemaforash on December 05, 2012, 05:39:58 pm
TBH Most people I've seen on Nditions are at best slightly a decent amount bellow c-rpgs average.

That's not what I understood from you playing there, you were fighting against mediocre players on a weird time of the day, and when I got on you lost every duel against me.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: cmp on December 05, 2012, 05:47:36 pm
I feared such stupid answer. The fact that i'm not a forum regular contributor is only that I had no special problem with Crpg, and was happy until this week. I am not one of the best players here, but I was regularly among the first 5 in team. But if you want to play only with the best players, go on. That's the fastest way to kill the mod.

If you don't want a stupid answer try not to give a VERY stupid reason.

No agispammers everywhere, autoblockers, or weird 2h weapons swinging 3 times in a sec.

It's funny because general consensus is that cRPG is slower than Native (greatswords certainly are) and STR>AGI. Also, by the way, cRPG is the only Warband mod where autoblockers get detected and banned.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: oprah_winfrey on December 05, 2012, 05:50:36 pm
The only thing that I like about native over crpg is dueling. Although the feint spamming does get a little boring after a while.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Teeth on December 05, 2012, 07:21:45 pm
The only thing about Native I like better than cRPG is the smooth and responsive feeling it has. I occasionally duel on it, but the almighty 2h stab makes duels somewhat retarded. Still, even Nditions duelling feels slow now to the extent that I start doing retarded moves and 360 swings because I get bored.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Tot. on December 05, 2012, 07:29:50 pm
I have more fun playing native (..) cRPG has weird 2h weapons swinging 3 times in a sec.

On team deathmatch servers maybe. Do come by to Nditions sometime. Though make sure your monitor is glued to your desk, we wouldn't want you to throw it through the window after being macro-ed 10th in the row with a lightsaber greatsword. One thing that cRPG-stab is good for is that you can't really feintspam it that much.
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Rebelyell on December 05, 2012, 08:08:08 pm
That is why you wanted chamberblocking removed, right? :lol:
that + your awatar = win
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Angantyr on December 07, 2012, 04:59:58 pm
Community effort another hint at Native class imbalance; IG tried out class restrictions on IG_Battlegrounds the other day (ranged and cav set to 1% :lol:).
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Shemaforash on December 07, 2012, 05:03:14 pm
Community effort another hint at Native class imbalance; IG tried out class restrictions on IG_Battlegrounds the other day (ranged and cav set to 1% :lol:).
it was horrid
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Angantyr on December 07, 2012, 05:04:40 pm
Perhaps Archivist was overdoing it a bit  :wink:
Title: Re: Native vs cRPG
Post by: Shemaforash on December 07, 2012, 06:07:11 pm
Not at all :P