Native vs cRPG

[Corsair831]

Who in their right mind plays native anyways? A load of epeen whoring, marco abusing retards; backed up by horses than have double the hp of crpg horses, pinpoint bows and xbows and dont get me started on the horse archers of native..... Any duels I had on native were boring as hell, even their supposed best players such as tobi, all had the same super defensive playerstyle, with a set pattern of difficult to see macro feints... There is no fluidity or variance in this, no need to adapt to new playstyles....

yes, blueberry_of_swadia, i remember you very well duelling on native

these players you say who play native, a lot of them are very very good, this lack of adaptation you're talking about is in fact just skill, and whilst i dont like the feint abuse on duel servers these days, the best native players are still 10x the best crpg players.

The horses are weaker in native than crpg as well, hunter vs. +3 destrier ?

Horse archers in native are currently rubbish, they took a huge nerf about a year ago, and the archers and xbows are not as OP as you crpg players all seem to think.

Also, CMP if you want to talk about balance, the whole reason i pulled out of the CRPG nations cup is because the balance on CRPG is so bad, every round the guys who won were the guys with the most armour and ironflesh, and all of them 2h.

I think the best way to think about it is

Native = skillful/ balanced but unchanging game great for clan play but stale in public

CRPG = nooby but fun pubfest where there's always something new going on, but dont even think about clanbattles on it

EDIT: also, in crpg, you can play as a samurai :3

[Gurnisson]

For Native clan matches archers were actually kinda balanced. Shield was a must for inf though then. The bad thing were xbowmen who had the best of both worlds: ranged and a shield to be protected from ranged when relocating. The Russians actually won the first NC with their scatter&shoot tactic with xbows. Our German team did rather well although being very inf heavy.

Pretty much all classes could be made unbalanced, not just factions with xbowmen. Vaegirs got free scimitars. I remember getting our archers to spawn what they wanted of bows, arrows and armor but one extra scimitar. Infantry spawning without a melee weapon but 2 shields (which even is cheaper than getting a scimi + shield). Made vaegirs stupidly op. In 1st round you could have archers with war bow, scimitar and kite shield and infantry with scimi, kite shield and 2 stack of javelins...
Could do somewhat the same with nords, having 1-2 nord scout who spawned 4 stacks of javs each and get a melee weapon + shield from the huscarl's making nords insane as well. Swads/rhodoks could also switch around, xbowmen giving free xbow and bolts to infantry, getting free 1-handed sword and a decent shield back.

Problem with native was that without ranged you were nothing. That's why we always abused the system to get as much ranged as possible (see above). Without (melee) infantry you could still rape, without cavalry you could as well. Without ranged you were pretty much fucked, even when waiting for flags. Two-handers and polearms (except spears useable with shields) were mostly useless in clan battles. All infantry would carry as many throwing weapons as possible or get those free xbows from their ranged. I remember seeing 1H and archery having over 1/3 of kills in a native tournament, headshots, lances and throwing next in line with 2H at a massive 5 % of kills. Balanced, I think not.

[Oberyn]

I'm going to guess you never actually played much clan battles in cRPG. Also, you didn't "pull out" of cRPG nation's cup since it never actually happened. Which team were you in?

[Corsair831]

Pretty much all classes could be made unbalanced, not just factions with xbowmen. Vaegirs got free scimitars. I remember getting our archers to spawn what they wanted of bows, arrows and armor but one extra scimitar. Infantry spawning without a melee weapon but 2 shields (which even is cheaper than getting a scimi + shield). Made vaegirs stupidly op. In 1st round you could have archers with war bow, scimitar and kite shield and infantry with scimi, kite shield and 2 stack of javelins...
Could do somewhat the same with nords, having 1-2 nord scout who spawned 4 stacks of javs each and get a melee weapon + shield from the huscarl's making nords insane as well. Swads/rhodoks could also switch around, xbowmen giving free xbow and bolts to infantry, getting free 1-handed sword and a decent shield back.

Problem with native was that without ranged you were nothing. That's why we always abused the system to get as much ranged as possible (see above). Without (melee) infantry you could still rape, without cavalry you could as well. Without ranged you were pretty much fucked, even when waiting for flags. Two-handers and polearms (except spears useable with shields) were mostly useless in clan battles. All infantry would carry as many throwing weapons as possible or get those free xbows from their ranged. I remember seeing 1H and archery having over 1/3 of kills in a native tournament, headshots, lances and throwing next in line with 2H at a massive 5 % of kills. Balanced, I think not.

that's totally untrue, without melee/cav you're absolutely screwed.

that's just total bs gurni lol.

[Falka]

the best native players are still 10x the best crpg players.

And this number you pulled right out of your ass, am I right? 

[Corsair831]

And this number you pulled right out of your ass, am I right? 

nope, just played a lot against both

[Miwiw]

yes, blueberry_of_swadia, i remember you very well duelling on native

muffin = blueberry? 

[Oberyn]

Yeah, just look at all high end clan battles in native or the native Nation's Cup, ranged totally aren't an essential component of every team, it's not just a constant camp-off and maneuvering around each other in order to get enemy under attack from your ranged, it's not like any melee that IS around is always 1hshield/throwing because not having a shield is automatically suicidal, since bows/xbows are ridiculously accurate repeating rifles.

[Corsair831]

muffin = blueberry? 

dunno, kind of assumed he was the same guy, same name n all o.O

Yeah, just look at all high end clan battles in native or the native Nation's Cup, ranged totally aren't an essential component of every team, it's not just a constant camp-off and maneuvering around each other in order to get enemy under attack from your ranged, it's not like any melee that IS around is always 1hshield/throwing because not having a shield is automatically suicidal, since bows/xbows are ridiculously accurate repeating rifles.

it's not like 2h doesn't have a place in native lol, it's just not the same place it has in crpg ... in native it's more of a mass melee type of thing, someone pulls one out and spams to holy hell ... only difference in crpg is you dont need a mass melee to pull one out, just spam to holy hell anyway ;P

[Miwiw]

I'd rather doubt it though.

Anyway, Archery in native is a bit too op. Though considering EVERY player has a shield, it gets some balance. While I played native in clan battles there was no way to complain about archery. I still remember the IG vs REF battle, it was a bigger battle back then, but a smaller battle at all, 15vs15. There was 20vs20 and more before.
Anyway, REF had like 75% Archers and we did the same in IG to counter that on Ruins map. Was a lot of fun and I couldn't say anything bad about that battle.
But once a team only has archers or ranged in their team, there's something wrong. A good battle in native was quite good balanced, class-wise.

With Rhodoks as faction, we usually went 9 Crossbowmen, 1 Cav and 2 Infantry out of 12 Players. Good times!

[Oberyn]

dunno, kind of assumed he was the same guy, same name n all o.O

it's not like 2h doesn't have a place in native lol, it's just not the same place it has in crpg ... in native it's more of a mass melee type of thing, someone pulls one out and spams to holy hell ... only difference in crpg is you dont need a mass melee to pull one out, just spam to holy hell anyway ;P

2h may have a place in native pubs where the average skill level is abysmal and one feint is enough to throw most people into helpess confusion (exceptions being the extremely low populated Nditions duel server and IG_battlegrounds, the servers with the most players by far are the ZHG noob fests), but they have literally no place whatsoever in clan battles.
Again, I'm guessing you haven't played many clan battles in cRPG, since even then shieldless inf are much less usefull than 1hshielders, for pretty much the same reasons. You can camp and maneuver and retreat all you want and watch the poor helpess 2h get raped by ranged, cav and mobbed by 1h shielders (longspears/pikes on the other hand are pretty friggin usefull). Spamming like a retard might net you some kills in cRPG pubs, if you think it works in clan battles you obviously haven't played many.

[cmp]

muffin = blueberry? 

No, different player.

[Chasey]

2h may have a place in native pubs where the average skill level is abysmal and one feint is enough to throw most people into helpess confusion (exceptions being the extremely low populated Nditions duel server and IG_battlegrounds, the servers with the most players by far are the ZHG noob fests), but they have literally no place whatsoever in clan battles.
Again, I'm guessing you haven't played many clan battles in cRPG, since even then shieldless inf are much less usefull than 1hshielders, for pretty much the same reasons. You can camp and maneuver and retreat all you want and watch the poor helpess 2h get raped by ranged, cav and mobbed by 1h shielders (longspears/pikes on the other hand are pretty friggin usefull). Spamming like a retard might net you some kills in cRPG pubs, if you think it works in clan battles you obviously haven't played many.

Shogunate was a no shield clan and won all their clan battles if i remember correctly

[Oberyn]

Bullshit, as far as I remember Shogunate was specifically designed around a 1hshielder+longspear partnering with a couple of plate armored 2h thrown in for good measure.

[H4rdn3ssKill3r]

Who in their right mind plays native anyways? A load of epeen whoring, marco abusing retards; backed up by horses than have double the hp of crpg horses, pinpoint bows and xbows and dont get me started on the horse archers of native..... Any duels I had on native were boring as hell, even their supposed best players such as tobi, all had the same super defensive playerstyle, with a set pattern of difficult to see macro feints... There is no fluidity or variance in this, no need to adapt to new playstyles....

Really?
Wow because this does look a-lot like duels in C-RPG.
Hmmm.