cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: gazda on March 20, 2012, 09:23:54 pm

Title: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 20, 2012, 09:23:54 pm
Gold is worth less and less every day, loompoints have come from price of 300k to 700k, mw items from 700k to 1.5 mil!!!!!
What can be done about that?!? Is there anything that can be done to force stable gold value ?!?!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Fartface on March 20, 2012, 09:25:50 pm
KILL poophammer
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: larlek on March 20, 2012, 09:30:07 pm
Get rid of gold. No repair fees or anything. Your character starts with a full set of random equiptment. Could be good, could be bad. You have to trade items with people to get gear you want or you can challange people on a duel server for a piece of their gear. You can only have 1 loom per character and if you want a new loom you will just have to trade with someone else.

Don't mind me, i've been drinking you see.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Zanze on March 20, 2012, 09:33:42 pm
Force a stable value? Increase the worth of gold by increasing upkeep.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Corwin on March 20, 2012, 09:35:15 pm
INCREASE THE UPKEEP!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: POOPHAMMER on March 20, 2012, 09:37:19 pm
Just do what I do

Keep your inventory stocked with as many looms as your gold allows you, if I need to sell something to buy something I buy it and keep my gold low, to about 100k to cushion my repairs so i can use whatever gear I want with no worries

A few months ago 1-1.2 mil for a MW was a good sale price, but as gold values change that 1 mil you made then and hung onto is worthless for buying a MW now, and I predict this will be the case in the future with loom prices going up like they are

A loom is a loom, and the value of that loom will stay steady, whereas gold values do not.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: okiN on March 20, 2012, 09:39:43 pm
Gold is worth less and less every day, loompoints have come from price of 300k to 700k, mw items from 700k to 1.5 mil!!!!!
What can be done about that?!? Is there anything that can be done to force stable gold value ?!?!

Why would it need to be?

Grinding and market have made some players rich. Those players use their wealth to push heirloom prices up. As a result, anyone can get a lot of gold by selling heirlooms, and everyone has equal opportunities to use that capital to profit from the market. The inflation seems totally overblown, yes, but as long as people are willing to pay those prices, which they are, I don't really see it as a problem. Gold is by no means worthless, as long as you're making proper use of it. I'm just curious to see how far this development can go.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 20, 2012, 09:39:56 pm
I don't get why anything needs to be done...

Retire and loom an item or retire and sell it and reap the benefits of inflation...I don't get the issue here.

Is the problem that you can't afford to buy loompoints?  Tough titty...I long ago reserved myself to the notion I will never be able to afford a loom point from grinding my character in game. 

Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Zanze on March 20, 2012, 09:45:26 pm
Don't buy the loompoint itself. Whatever you are looking for will probably come up at some point at an affordable cheap price as a +1. Buy that +1 with grinded gold, loom it yourself to +3. You'll probably have enough, or close to enough money to buy another +1 at that point. (Maybe not so much in a few months or so...)


Brings up a new point. The "inflation" will result in less people using their grinded gold to buy looms. Means they will hang on to the money for something else...aka, using higher end items a lot more.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Corwin on March 20, 2012, 09:51:43 pm
Why would it need to be?

Grinding and market have made some players rich. Those players use their wealth to push heirloom prices up. As a result, anyone can get a lot of gold by selling heirlooms, and everyone has equal opportunities to use that capital to profit from the market. The inflation seems totally overblown, yes, but as long as people are willing to pay those prices, which they are, I don't really see it as a problem. Gold is by no means worthless, as long as you're making proper use of it. I'm just curious to see how far this development can go.

As long as more gold is grinded than spent, ad infinitum.
But incresing the upkeep would slow it down.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: okiN on March 20, 2012, 10:09:53 pm
As long as more gold is grinded than spent, ad infinitum.
But incresing the upkeep would slow it down.

This assumes that the inflation is caused by upkeep somehow being "insufficient". I'm really not convinced at all that that's the case. I'm pretty sure that the real cause is the spending behavior of players with above-average amounts of accumulated gold. It's the only way any of it makes sense, IMO.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 20, 2012, 10:12:39 pm
As long as more gold is grinded than spent, ad infinitum.
But incresing the upkeep would slow it down.

I do not think that increasing the upkeep would increase the gold spent upkeeping tbh. If you increase upkeep, people will react and wear less equipment, possibly even reducing the total amount of gold lost due to upkeep in the end.

I think we need to offer new possibilities in order to slow down the inflation. Maybe 4th heirloom levels that can only be crafted from the +3 version with a shitload of gold (like... 5 million ?). Of course as the inflation continues, 5 million will probably become not so much, so we will have to invent yet another thing for players to spend their gold. But that's how inflation is regulated in all the games I know of. Another good idea is fiddling with the marketplace fees. By increasing them, you make people that use the marketplace pay for a part of the inflation. Even better, the amount of gold they loose through it depends on how extensively they use the marketplace, so this actually means that it directly takes most of it's money out of the trader's profit.

Finally, there should be more incentives towards retirement. Pretending that heirloom prices go up because the few very rich people that together make for a marginal part of the whole money in the game decide to spend a lot isn't just going to be true because people say it. Prices go up because ,in this case a the same time, the offer goes down because people stop retiring, and the demand goes up because the same people that stopped offering heirlooms to the market now want to buy some for themselves ! Thing is, the heirloom buyers that still wish to buy with current "crazy" prices have the majority of the money in their hands, not because they are very rich, but because they are many.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Corwin on March 20, 2012, 10:15:41 pm
I do not think that increasing the upkeep would increase the gold spent upkeeping tbh. If you increase upkeep, people will react and wear less equipment, possibly even reducing the total amount of gold lost due to upkeep in the end.


Some of them, yes, sure. Some of them wont. That's what I mean - it will slow it down.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: djavo on March 20, 2012, 10:20:13 pm
I blame MMF , they ruined Greece economy and now they are ruining c-rpg economy. Stop the Masons!
Gazda send all your money to some swiss player for safekeeping.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Jeff Russell on March 20, 2012, 10:22:01 pm
Induce a stimulus package into my account.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 20, 2012, 10:22:08 pm
Gazda send all your money to some swiss player for safekeeping.

what money?
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: djavo on March 20, 2012, 10:26:00 pm
what money?
HDZ money
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 20, 2012, 10:28:13 pm
Some of them, yes, sure. Some of them wont. That's what I mean - it will slow it down.

Yes that's the most reasonable scenario. But even then, it would only make a bigger difference between people that spend money when they play, compensating their losses by trading and selling heirloom points, and the people that play in cheap gear and use their money to buy the heirlooms. Not because the buyers get more money, but because at the same time the sellers need more money and their numbers are reduced because fewer people will want to play that way if upkeep is increased.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: okiN on March 20, 2012, 10:34:32 pm
I do not think that increasing the upkeep would increase the gold spent upkeeping tbh. If you increase upkeep, people will react and wear less equipment, possibly even reducing the total amount of gold lost due to upkeep in the end.

I think we need to offer new possibilities in order to slow down the inflation. Maybe 4th heirloom levels that can only be crafted from the +3 version with a shitload of gold (like... 5 million ?). Of course as the inflation continues, 5 million will probably become not so much, so we will have to invent yet another thing for players to spend their gold. But that's how inflation is regulated in all the games I know of. Another good idea is fiddling with the marketplace fees. By increasing them, you make people that use the marketplace pay for a part of the inflation. Even better, the amount of gold they loose through it depends on how extensively they use the marketplace, so this actually means that it directly takes most of it's money out of the trader's profit.

Finally, there should be more incentives towards retirement. Pretending that heirloom prices go up because the few very rich people that together make for a marginal part of the whole money in the game decide to spend a lot isn't just going to be true because people say it. Prices go up because ,in this case a the same time, the offer goes down because people stop retiring, and the demand goes up because the same people that stopped offering heirlooms to the market now want to buy some for themselves ! Thing is, the heirloom buyers that still wish to buy with current "crazy" prices have the majority of the money in their hands, not because they are very rich, but because they are many.

Exactly. On average, players will always tend to use a level of equipment that lets them make some gold through play.

However, that doesn't have anything to do with inflation. For inflation to arise from "insufficient" upkeep, it would have to mean that the average upkeep level is so low that people can earn more gold each generation than is the value of the heirloom point they also gain. Of course this is affected by the gold injected into the system by players who have stopped retiring, and thus continue to gain gold but not heirlooms.

Still, for that inflation then to be sustainable over a long period of time, that trend would also have to continue, which isn't really possible unless the average level of upkeep is also constantly decreasing and/or the amount being injected by non-retirees increasing at a fast enough rate to keep up with rising market prices.

Now, here's a bit of a thought experiment: assuming you're gen 1 and pay absolutely zero upkeep the whole time, then retire as soon as you hit 31, the maximum amount of gold you can gain in one generation of play is about 436k. Each generation decreases this amount, because the XP bonus reduces your gold gain relative to XP gain, eventually going as low as 300k per gen at gen16.

Now subtract upkeep. Depending on your gen bonus, each retirement will take between 6000 and 8700 ticks at x1. Assuming an average multiplier of 2 you can cut those in half to 3000 and 4350. You'll probably be paying upkeep every five ticks or so. Think how much upkeep you pay on an average round and do the math on that. How much do you think the average player really gains from each gen, at the end of the day? I'm pretty sure that even with all the gold coming in from the people who have stopped retiring, it'll be a lot less than 600k.

Something else is driving the inflation.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Digglez on March 20, 2012, 10:50:32 pm
I love the over the top sensationalized post subject, OP has job waiting for him at any number of media outlets!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 20, 2012, 10:58:06 pm
I think there are two different but linked problems here. They are difficult to tell from another because heirlooms and gold is pretty much everything we got in our economy.

The problem clearly is that the gold value of heirlooms has skyrocketed, but this is both due to pure inflation of gold, and to a change in demand and supply.

If we define inflation as the evolution of the ratio of the total sum of all the gold owned by players divided by the number of players, then changing the rate at which people earn and loose gold due to gameplay clearly influences the inflation.

I think the price increase is more driven by a growing disbalance between players than by inflation. Players that stop retiring earn the most gold through playing and use that to buy heirlooms. They earn more gold directly from the game both because they are forced to anyway (no retiring means the side income is limited to pure trading) but also because level 31+ chars have a serious advantage over chars that spend half their time under 30 and the other half at level 30. The other group of players is those that retire and sell their heirloom points. (We don't really care about the group that retires and keep their looms because they don't interact.) I think that group is reducing in size, lowering the supply, and also becoming more aware of it's power over the prices. At the same time, the need for looms doesn't die off, as new people enter the 31+ phase every day.

So eventually people will start retiring again, because the prices will become really unbearable at some point, which will make them decrease again, and so on.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: okiN on March 20, 2012, 11:09:32 pm
Players that stop retiring earn the most gold through playing and use that to buy heirlooms. They earn more gold directly from the game both because they are forced to anyway (no retiring means the side income is limited to pure trading) but also because level 31+ chars have a serious advantage over chars that spend half their time under 30 and the other half at level 30.

How you figure that? Retiring players generally get a slight income boost from the period where they're using lower gear while waiting to level up, whereas players who have stopped retiring will generally use their normal ("best") gear all the time. Also, while 31+ players may be harder-hitting on the battlefield, their income is still just as dependent on the team victory, and there will be some of these guys on both sides. They might get a somewhat higher multi on average, but I'm not sure it's significant.

Either way, I think it's very hard to deny that there's a huge discrepancy between average gold gain per a gen's worth of play and loom prices. You could assume that the pool of players actively participating in the market has a much higher proportion of non-retirees in it, and hence a higher supply of gold, but even so I have a difficult time imagining it'd be enough to make up for this huge difference. I think the prices aren't tied to the amount of gold in circulation so much as to how that gold is being used.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Grumbs on March 20, 2012, 11:18:13 pm
The inflation encourages everyone to hoard their stuff. Even if you don't need a particular item its better to put any excess gold into it and taking it off the market, depriving it of someone who may have genuinely needed it. Kind of a bad situation to be in
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: okiN on March 20, 2012, 11:32:19 pm
Well, actually, the optimal approach is to be constantly both buying and selling as much as you can. Hoarding allows you to keep up with inflation, but to turn a profit you need to keep the items moving as fast as possible. Buy low, sell high. It just needs a bit of persistence, a decent understanding of prices and quick and decisive action. The items keep moving, the traders make a profit, and everyone else has opportunities to buy what they want.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 20, 2012, 11:35:28 pm
How you figure that? Retiring players generally get a slight income boost from the period where they're using lower gear while waiting to level up, whereas players who have stopped retiring will generally use their normal ("best") gear all the time. Also, while 31+ players may be harder-hitting on the battlefield, their income is still just as dependent on the team victory, and there will be some of these guys on both sides. They might get a somewhat higher multi on average, but I'm not sure it's significant.

I don't really know for sure but when I see what is the gear people claim they break even with, I can really imagine that there are significant differences between players when it comes to average multi. Especially on low populated servers, one player can repeatedly win matches.

Either way, I think it's very hard to deny that there's a huge discrepancy between average gold gain per a gen's worth of play and loom prices. You could assume that the pool of players actively participating in the market has a much higher proportion of non-retirees in it, and hence a higher supply of gold, but even so I have a difficult time imagining it'd be enough to make up for this huge difference. I think the prices aren't tied to the amount of gold in circulation so much as to how that gold is being used.

I think a big majority of the retirements being done result in the player that retired selecting an item for his char and be done with it. There is little reason to retire, but even if you do, there is still little reason to sell your loompoint. Some people need it for their upkeep, others do that because it's more effective when you want a low priced item. My point is, heirloom points are not produced at a sustainable rate at the moment, which results in the prices going up.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: HUtH on March 20, 2012, 11:54:23 pm

Hmm what about adding an option of "unlooming" items? Possibility to make from +3 item a +2 item and loompoint(and so on)? That's a serious move, because it'd add great flexibility to the market, which would change things drastically. I think it'd decrease value of loompoint to more stable level, and possibly it'd slowly go down alongside with more and more retired chars. But I'm not sure about this completely...

Also, if 'unlooming" had come true, an option to "unloom" item not to loompoint, but to money, would give devs power to adjust prices(in some range) on market by setting a value of loompoint(I wonder how chadz would set that...) - and by that the prices of already loomed items(generally about 400k for l-point would be appropriate, because of money one can gain in one gen, which varies around 400k depends on lvl) . But that kind of "central planning" together with easy unlooming would totally kill trading as it is today.

Sooo, well.. free market with different prices, inflation etc. or dull but stable controlled market.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Camaris on March 20, 2012, 11:59:21 pm
A market tax could be added. 10% TAX on every money transaction and the gold prices would drop soon.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Mlekce on March 21, 2012, 12:10:46 am
limit max price for loomed items,and stimulate trading not selling gear.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 21, 2012, 12:11:47 am
Increase gen bonus/ higher xp cap would also make loom points worth less.  :lol:
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Mlekce on March 21, 2012, 12:12:40 am
Hmm what about adding an option of "unlooming" items? Possibility to make from +3 item a +2 item and loompoint(and so on)? That's a serious move, because it'd add great flexibility to the market, which would change things drastically. I think it'd decrease value of loompoint to more stable level, and possibly it'd slowly go down alongside with more and more retired chars. But I'm not sure about this completely...

Also, if 'unlooming" had come true, an option to "unloom" item not to loompoint, but to money, would give devs power to adjust prices(in some range) on market by setting a value of loompoint(I wonder how chadz would set that...) - and by that the prices of already loomed items(generally about 400k for l-point would be appropriate, because of money one can gain in one gen, which varies around 400k depends on lvl) . But that kind of "central planning" together with easy unlooming would totally kill trading as it is today.

Sooo, well.. free market with different prices, inflation etc. or dull but stable controlled market.

(click to show/hide)

maybie unlooming isn't that bad idea,but i suggest adding some gold penalty or else market would be usless.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Liveon on March 21, 2012, 12:29:26 am
 It's the economy, stupid, but... not inflation.
Inflation is a rise in the general level of prices of goods
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation)
Oh, wait... look at the market  : bows, arbalest, danish sword, great long axe, etc., etc.
Prices increased or decreased?

Work ordinary rules of supply and demand(+quantity+quality), the rest is ordinary trolling losers and whiners.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Xol! on March 21, 2012, 12:44:09 am
I'm pretty sure there is a very large amount of gold coming in every single day in cRPG-land.  This post is a lot longer than I originally planned, so I'm breaking it up into two parts, recalculating the multiplier distribution & how much gold this actually amounts to.

THE BORING PART:
Previously, the distribution of multipliers was calculated to be something like:
0.5    0.25    0.125    0.0625    0.0625
for x1, x2, x3, x4, and x5 multipliers, respectively.

Those calculations assume that each round, a team has a 50:50 chance of winning, and that the probability of winning each round is independent of the outcome of the last round.  While at the time, it seemed like a reasonable assumption, and significantly reduced the complexity of the calculation, I don't think it's actually right.

Basically, it boils down to how the autobalancer works.  I'd love to get some statistics on this, as it would make my calculations more reliable, but anecdotally, this is what I've noticed: On a given map, in the first round, there's about a 50:50 chance of winning.  Perhaps the same on round two, after the autobalance.  After that, teams don't shift around much, and whichever team wins round two tends to win the next several rounds, until map change.  Occasionally the other team will band together and fight back with a better strategy, or a new group of players come into the server, or the teams are balanced absolutely perfectly, but most of the time, they favor one team or the other, and the favored team wins.

What does this mean?  It means that this:
0.5    0.25    0.125    0.0625    0.0625
is not correct. 

If we assume instead that round one and two are even (50:50), and then that the following rounds are, say, 65:35 for the winning and losing teams of round 2, we get something much different:
0.5    0.175    0.11375    0.0739375    0.1373125


THE $$$ PART:
This distribution means about 11.8 (96.875 to 108.678) gold per minute more, on average.  It would take the 'break even' cost of gear from 34598 to 38813 gold.

Now, not  everyone uses the 'break even' point, obviously, many are above and many are below, but in my own personal experience, more are below.  Say people, on average, tend to use ~80% of the old sustainable build cost to determine what gear they use (27678 gold). Assuming there are about 200 players active at all times, this amounts to a whopping 8.98 million gold per day coming in to the crpg economy after upkeep.

Disclaimer:
(click to show/hide)

edit: typo
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 21, 2012, 01:10:09 am
In regards to Xol, I think part of the thing with people being under the break even price is because the most expensive armor is not as effective right now with the change in soak damage. Wearing plate used to be a lot stronger then it is now, creating a lot of glances. However this isn't the case as much anymore, so the armor isn't worth the downside to wpf and athletics. I myself have a full set of +3 plate, and I very rarely wear it. This has nothing to do with the upkeep, I just prefer to wear lighter armor most of the time.

Another thing that I think causes loom points to be so high, is that everyone has most of their main gear loomed now so they are more interested in getting "fun" looms. Unfortunately, there are far less goedendags, war cleavers, knobbed/spiked maces, random cool helmets, etc. floating around the marketplace. Because of this, these people are willing to use their unused cash to get what they want. In addition to that, the addition of new items, while awesome, has made loom points more valuable since people will pay top dollar to get them loomed as fast as possible.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Vexus on March 21, 2012, 01:32:27 am
Most noticeable problem is that with all this gold running around the players, upkeep has been rendered useless.

And I rest my case.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Cepeshi on March 21, 2012, 01:33:19 am
I am disappointed...

i read this as GOD is worthless  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 21, 2012, 01:35:24 am
Most noticeable problem is that with all this gold running around the players, upkeep has been rendered useless.

And I rest my case.

It was useless from the start. Now it's even more useless than before, with most of the expensive armors being less effective than the cheaper ones.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Xol! on March 21, 2012, 01:36:50 am
In regards to Xol, I think part of the thing with people being under the break even price is because the most expensive armor is not as effective right now with the change in soak damage. Wearing plate used to be a lot stronger then it is now, creating a lot of glances. However this isn't the case as much anymore, so the armor isn't worth the downside to wpf and athletics. I myself have a full set of +3 plate, and I very rarely wear it. This has nothing to do with the upkeep, I just prefer to wear lighter armor most of the time.

Another thing that I think causes loom points to be so high, is that everyone has most of their main gear loomed now so they are more interested in getting "fun" looms. Unfortunately, there are far less goedendags, war cleavers, knobbed/spiked maces, random cool helmets, etc. floating around the marketplace. Because of this, these people are willing to use their unused cash to get what they want. In addition to that, the addition of new items, while awesome, has made loom points more valuable since people will pay top dollar to get them loomed as fast as possible.

I pretty much agree.  I wear ~10k in gear, just because I don't see a point to running around in anything heavier.  I can still do quite well wearing my leather gloves, boots, cap, lamellar vest and using my great bardiche.  I actually have a full set of lordly plate armor that I haven't used for more than a round at a time in weeks.  My point is that more gold is coming in than going out of the economy, which will naturally lead to some inflation.

None of this is mutually exclusive, it's a combination of several factors, no single thing is really artificially inflating loom prices or what have you.  Even if chadz were to tweak upkeep costs so that gold was actually leaving the economy, loom prices wouldn't fall for ages due to reasons like the ones you described.  Trying to pin responsibility for rising loom costs on a single thing would be foolish.

Most noticeable problem is that with all this gold running around the players, upkeep has been rendered useless.

And I rest my case.

Agreed.  I'd actually like to see chadz add some type of one time gold-to-heirloom point purchasing option, then abolish gold from trading completely.  The market would become more of a place to trade items and try out new builds than to make money or finance a full plate & plated charger generation.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlueKnight on March 21, 2012, 02:11:53 am
I had some kind of strange idea. First goes the introduction.

As we all fight quite often, we work while fighting. Even if we don't get the gold because of upkeep we get experience which means we get looms. Everybody is treated in a similar way. He fights and gets the gold/exp, but there are some units, who have like 15 MW items and their generation is obviously much below 45. That's because of good deals they make. Unluckily when somebody gains the looms on the marketplace, sb has to lose them. Therefore lots of people could have lost their looms because of the changing value. They got somehow fucked. What is important, some of the people were fucked by nerfing items, which became unwanted. Another problem is a fact that people who decide to sell their loompoints, have enough gold to play paying upkeep for 2 generations at least. It means that upkeep doesn't do its job and is only an obstacle for new players, who can't sell their looms and play in shit, because among all the +3MasterStuffPlayers they are kinda underpowered.

What can be done about it?

We can introduce a new method. Everybody will have the amount of loompoints he has earned by playing or sacrificing. It means that If you have been playing for like a year and you are gen 12, it will stay. You would have 11 loompoints to assign then. You could choose where to put them etc. Marketplace would be removed, not to make this situation come back. After you assign your loompoints you would have a cooldown timer. It would be usable after next 30 days. It would be a chance to reassign your loompoints again.

- There is no dealing with different people - you have what you earned, not traded. - fair
- After a month from last reassiging your loompoints, you would have this option available again and after another month again and again...
- Instead of marketplace there could be a bot-shop, where you would be able to sell your loompoint for the stable price of 300K. (It's a good source of money but doesn't allow to play very heavy all the time)
- New system is friendlier for newcomers
- No raping other players who don't know the prices
- ability to have fun when you respec to different class, thanks to reassigning of loompoints.
- Less whining ( I hope )

What to do with people that currently have lots of looms and smaller amount of gens?

These looms could be sold for the prices in the bot-shop, so if sb had 3 more looms, they would be taken away and he would get 900K. These people shouldn't whine. 300K for 1 additional loompoint is a cool thing for all the marketplace kings.

If such a change was introduced, on that day everybody would have his loompoints ready to be reassigned again.

I am sorry if you think that gaining looms thx to other peoples' unawarness is okay. I think it's not and if there is an upkeep, it is for keeping some kind of balance.

In my humble opinion if you got to this point of reading, you should have already got to know my point of view.

Ah! Poeple who have traded their loompoints for gold, should get them back but they should loose all their gold. Also if sb transferred looms from his/her alt, these looms should be also given to the main. That would be the only situation, when sb has more looms than generations. I hope it can be done somehow. Maybe tracking the "sacrifice" option is possible. If it's not, you have a thing to discuss.

Don't "minus" my post just because you loose something. Abuse is always punished and shouldn't be allowed. We all made prices rise like fuck and made upkeep unnecessary thing.

Anyway, that sounds like a lot of work for devs :D

Yours faithfully,
BlueKnight
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Cepeshi on March 21, 2012, 02:14:18 am
Not bad, not bad at all. Even tho, i sold most of my looms, i would be totally in for this :D
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: ArchonAlarion on March 21, 2012, 02:16:42 am
Boo, don't do away with the marketplace.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Cepeshi on March 21, 2012, 02:21:46 am
Well, you would not need market if you could reassign your looms every month or so.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Sergee on March 21, 2012, 04:38:23 am
KILL poophammer


This made me laugh
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Paul on March 21, 2012, 07:30:40 am
Shall we add special hats for 5999999 gold?
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Cepeshi on March 21, 2012, 07:37:08 am
Shall we add special hats for 5999999 gold?

i bet there are people who would still have enuff after acquiring those, make a whole set, hat for 5999999, robes for 8999999, legs for 6999999, hands for 5999999 and so on  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Leshma on March 21, 2012, 11:32:51 am
If you want this to stop, state aka chadz has to intervene. No other way, market can't fix by itself.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: okiN on March 21, 2012, 11:41:10 am
I'm surrounded by commie pinko protectionist liberals! You bandits are the worst!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Espu on March 21, 2012, 11:46:47 am
Free market!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: SchokoSchaf on March 21, 2012, 11:46:52 am
I'm surrounded by commie pinko protectionist liberals! You bandits are the worst!
I have not read anything in this topic, but free markets have proven to be as insufficient in the long run as state controlled ones. ECONOMICS DEBATE!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Leshma on March 21, 2012, 11:51:49 am
Slightly off-topic, but I heard that Nokia is moving to China.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlueKnight on March 21, 2012, 12:10:08 pm
Why did I even try to help? Bullshit...
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: John on March 21, 2012, 12:41:08 pm
The value of gold is rapidly decreasing, buy paper money. 
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on March 21, 2012, 12:42:37 pm
Yes! Exclusive items (hats) that cost alot of gold but have the same kind of stats as normal items. They would be only for looks. And, maybe including Final Boss item pack into this. Not for everyone but for those who pay gold for a better look for weapons and armor (+1 +2 +3 etc). Also you can buy heraldry for your items at an aditional cost  (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,26475.0.html)

Want that stylish look? Pay for it baby.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Gurnisson on March 21, 2012, 12:46:33 pm
Boulder on Stick - 600 000,-
Looney Toons Axe - 600 000,-
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Fartface on March 21, 2012, 01:23:26 pm
would so pay 600k to get the looney toon axe again. , id mw it in 2 secs:D
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Fartface on March 21, 2012, 01:26:19 pm
HMM have to admit , that as long as people buying these items for these prices.
They dont seem to mind them IMO , if people realy hated the prices nothing would be sold.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Teeth on March 21, 2012, 02:16:05 pm
I just dont understand why people are willing to pay such prices for looms. I make like 500k gold for every 500 hours I play. So thats 1.5 million so far, not even enough to buy a masterwork anymore. I decided to stop retiring a while ago, but I retired recently, even though I hate it. Ah well, one more loom and I'll have a weapon, a body armour and gloves to x3 and then all your outrageous prices can go fuck themselves.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 21, 2012, 02:22:10 pm
free market is for pussies, communism ftw!!!!
make fixed prices for each level of heirloom no matter what item it is, make loompints sellable only for fixed price , remove item trading !!!
there i fixed the crpg economy
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 21, 2012, 02:27:55 pm
I just dont understand why people are willing to pay such prices for looms. I make like 500k gold for every 500 hours I play. So thats 1.5 million so far, not even enough to buy a masterwork anymore. I decided to stop retiring a while ago, but I retired recently, even though I hate it. Ah well, one more loom and I'll have a weapon, a body armour and gloves to x3 and then all your outrageous prices can go fuck themselves.

That's the essence of the problem. Retiring is unpopular => heirlooms become hard to find => their price rises.

The prices shouldn't be artificially brought down to please the buyers. Doing so means you nerf retirement even further and eventually make it useless. And obviously you also kill the market because the sellers will just stop selling if you force them to sell for less gold.

On the long term, prices will fluctuate around the price that is balanced when we take everything into account, including the disadvantages of retirement. This price is probably higher than the current prices, so the best way to "fix" this is not debating about it, it is retiring.


When it comes to inflation, I don't think there is much in cRPG. But to fix it, the best way remains offering new cool things for lots of gold, and increasing the marketplace fees.


I'm surrounded by commie pinko protectionist liberals! You bandits are the worst!

Wtf...
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: okiN on March 21, 2012, 02:42:27 pm
Referring here to social liberalism. Duh.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Zanze on March 21, 2012, 02:50:21 pm
If people continue to buy looms at such an outrageous price, then the price will rise. Simply common sense. If I retire one gen and sell my loom point for 600k, then see others are successful selling theirs for 700k. When I retire next why would I sell mine for any less than that?

You want to stop the rise of loom point prices? Stop buying them. That person selling it for some absurd price will start lowering the price until it sells. Many people see playing after 31  as a waste of time, so they won't hold onto it for long.

Most likely, some people won't care about it and continue buying loom points. Prices will increase, people will continue playing. Looms aren't necessary to be effective, they are just nice. This is what happens when we have nice things =D.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 21, 2012, 02:52:46 pm
Referring here to social liberalism. Duh.

More wtf...

Btw, in French, liberalism is only about the economy, so socialism and liberalism are opposites. There is no word for saying political and economical freedom at the same time.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlueKnight on March 21, 2012, 02:56:31 pm
Referring here to social liberalism. Duh.

When you rape everybody by nerfing their stuff you call it balance, but when it comes to balancing the wealth-system you call it social liberalism... Everybody started as a peasant, then some of the people had quite a lot of stuff and now they feel like peasants again. I don't like the marketplace. Earning in crpg when you aren't fighting makes no sense. It's not a business mod I guess.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlueKnight on March 21, 2012, 03:01:19 pm
Looms aren't necessary to be effective, they are just nice. This is what happens when we have nice things =D.

That's a huge difference between having additional 10 body armour and not having it. Same rule comes to weapon which is more powerful and faster. Everybody wants to be a hero and good stuff is really helpful. Never underestimate loomed equipment. Some weapons when +3 stop glancing and allow to go hitslashing-mode, when earlier left swing was bumping and didn't allow that.

It also gives some kind of satisfaction when you see that all the shit on you is epic.

Edit: Sry for double-posting.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: obitus on March 21, 2012, 03:02:50 pm
gold is worthless so buy all my straw hats and ill make some more maps
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Fartface on March 21, 2012, 03:05:39 pm
Donate me with 500k ,in my quest to take down poophammer!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Leshma on March 21, 2012, 03:14:56 pm
Referring here to social liberalism. Duh.

Without Nokia to back up Finnish economy, Norway will become even better choice in the future.

In other words, Xant will lose his good looks over time but Siiem will become even more sexier than he's now. Deal with it!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Logen on March 21, 2012, 03:17:06 pm
That will force xant to move to norway and live with siem
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Vodner on March 21, 2012, 03:38:15 pm
Quote
On the long term, prices will fluctuate around the price that is balanced when we take everything into account, including the disadvantages of retirement. This price is probably higher than the current prices, so the best way to "fix" this is not debating about it, it is retiring.
I can't speak for anybody else, but I've stopped retiring because levels 1-26 just aren't fun. Being a peasant almost completely turned me off cRPG the first time I played it.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 21, 2012, 04:07:24 pm
I can't speak for anybody else, but I've stopped retiring because levels 1-26 just aren't fun. Being a peasant almost completely turned me off cRPG the first time I played it.

Well no offense but people like you are the reason heirloom prices are "so high". I don't know whether you buy heirloom points or not, but those that complain about the prices usually are those that buy them, and those are usually the people that stopped retiring, which caused this situation in the first place. Like what, it's the heirloom point sellers fault if the prices are high ? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: kinngrimm on March 21, 2012, 04:41:34 pm
crazier things have happened, but i am here totally with what Poophammer in the beginning and later Okin said sofar.(edit:well not that political stuff, i would keep such a conversation for reallife or at least TS)

The inflation encourages everyone to hoard their stuff. Even if you don't need a particular item its better to put any excess gold into it and taking it off the market, depriving it of someone who may have genuinely needed it. Kind of a bad situation to be in
I hoard "my" stuff, i don't gamble on the marketplace at all, i just want stuff for my own use.

When i use full gear, it takes me around 3 times as long to get 100k gold as before when i was doing generations.
The stuff got more expensive to repair through looming as well ...
And what also has been mentioned the soaking changes. I now use rather often my light gear set, not because of money but because my medium tear armor just doesn't give me the edge anymore then it used to before.(You argued with plate, but it is the same with midtier armor which was ok for my agi built in terms of protection, but with less protection and the high weight which slows me down considerably it just isn't worth using it anymore on most of the maps)


I don't really know for sure but when I see what is the gear people claim they break even with, I can really imagine that there are significant differences between players when it comes to average multi. Especially on low populated servers, one player can repeatedly win matches.
your point being?

I think a big majority of the retirements being done result in the player that retired selecting an item for his char and be done with it. There is little reason to retire, but even if you do, there is still little reason to sell your loompoint. Some people need it for their upkeep, others do that because it's more effective when you want a low priced item.
true

My point is, heirloom points are not produced at a sustainable rate at the moment, which results in the prices going up.
why would they ? In my view the marketplace main role is to "get rid" of stuff you don't wanna use anymore, either through nerf or just because you are bored of it. At the time you sell, if you have half a brain, you check the actual prices, get half a decent price, take/need perhaps some more gold for a replacement of what you sold for another piece of gear. Over all, win!

Those who are making money out of it because they just like the meta game and also to get cheap looms instead of investing all the playtime themselves(i got no problem with that) and well ... they do need someone to buy it from wont they?

@Blueknight
the marketplace is a game within the game, why would you take that away from people enjoying playing it?
Even if some dudes would have a 100 loompoints in total in gear, that wouldn't make them the ueber player
There have come along from native, a lot of good players over time and they all rule without loomed gear.
But your suggestion with free monthly reloom of gear would make a great addition to the existing system, not replacing it but making it more versatile.


@Vodner
If like me you had a goal you are aiming for, yes retirments are getting tiresome at times, still being peasent again always gave me perspective and also the chance to develop tactics and sometimes just time to mess around and play less seriously hrhr.

Well no offense but people like you are the reason heirloom prices are "so high". I don't know whether you buy heirloom points or not, but those that complain about the prices usually are those that buy them, and those are usually the people that stopped retiring, which caused this situation in the first place. Like what, it's the heirloom point sellers fault if the prices are high ? :rolleyes:
That is a bit harsh, not like he alone planed it all from the beginning, the evil mastermind to fuckup the loomed prizes.
If at all it is the fault of our god chadz ;) , who is trying to test us till he finds a way to make our life better.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlueKnight on March 21, 2012, 05:09:08 pm

@Blueknight
the marketplace is a game within the game, why would you take that away from people enjoying playing it?
Even if some dudes would have a 100 loompoints in total in gear, that wouldn't make them the ueber player
There have come along from native, a lot of good players over time and they all rule without loomed gear.
But your suggestion with free monthly reloom of gear would make a great addition to the existing system, not replacing it but making it more versatile.


I have never said that people with 20+ looms are overpowered, but their source are just other players.

I know we have 999 great players or more but it's not like they rule without loomed stuff.

You probably know that in my cewl stuff I had great stats like 4 months ago, but without looms it's much harder. Your horse is less maneuverable and slower, your weapon is slower and deals less dmg to people. Also these people have their armours and gloves +3 which means I need to hit them more times to kill them.

I tried as a shielder and as an archer after coming back. as a shielder I need to hit sb from 3 to 6 times to kill him. it's 21/15 with 7PS 7 IF etc. I am abusing left swing a lot to attack the head. In fact all my hits except stabs I am trying to place in the enemies' heads. My weapon is Nordic champion's sword. 32 cut should be enough, but when it's +3 you get 35 which is around 10% more. Also there comes 1 speed point which is very important.

My archer had not enough dmg as well. I was using bodkins, rus bow etc. but I lacked dmg. If I had that loomed I would have another few points of pierce dmg which makes a difference.

All I want to say is that it is painful for new guys who have to fight all the crpg players who are great. While fighting with our elite warriors every single advantage counts.

Also marketplace touched us all. When there was a balance some hell months ago, there was also a moment when we could reassign our loompoints. That was cool but then they introduced marketplace and said: There won't be any reassigning because there is a marketplace so if we wanted to change something we should go and try dealing with other players. Then hittable ground started existing, also longspear lost its overhead etc.

What is important is that marketplace and loompoints reassigning can't exist at the same time. If it existed you could buy loomed shit and unwanted gear and than make it +3. Also there wouldn't be such a need of dealing with other players if you had an option of reassigning your looms.

I know I abuse some words and it doesn't sound sexy but forgive me

Cheers Kinngrimm,
BlueKnight
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Cepeshi on March 21, 2012, 05:28:30 pm
Hi,
its signed,
i can only approved.

Cepeshi


Also, if they did not brought up the market, i would be swimming in looms now...generation 23 atm, have 3 +3items, sold rest :)
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: RandomDude on March 21, 2012, 05:53:46 pm
what about... some kinda of crpg gold donation system where every 100k - 1mil gets you a chance to win an item or something?

I guess it's kinda similar to buying stuf for 6mil.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: MrShine on March 21, 2012, 05:57:55 pm
The market is great for everybody, and the inflation is not a problem.

For the newbies who are struggling with upkeep costs and scrounging gold to buy the items they want, after one loompoint sold they will have plenty (100k+) leftover gold to cover their equipment/repair expenses AND have enough to still buy a +1 loom on the market if they see something they want. 

The higher inflation goes the more newbies will gain from their sold loompoints and the more trivial upkeep/standard equipment costs will become.


For the wealthier players the market is great because you have THE OPTION (not the requirement) to play the market.  I know that I've benefited substantially from market tradings, and I'm sure that I've benefited others as well who take my looms and either turn them around for more profit, or get an item they were looking for.  In this way loompoint price is insubstantial, because overall market prices will balance themselves out in the end and it's an issue of commodity trading. 

And at the same time for those who don't want to play the market, they don't have to. They simply can continue to loom their items outside of the system, and perhaps pop in to buy an item every now and then.  These are the players who perhaps are most displeased with the inflation in the market because their gold increases more slowly than the average loomprice seems to jump.  However should they decide to enter the market "game" their personal looms will be just as valuable as anything else, and they always have the option to sell a loompoint for some quick cash and invest in some looms.

So no one is getting "hurt" except maybe for those who play the market game and make poor trading decisions that leaves them with less valuable merchandise.  But for the most part everyone wins with the system.  Hell, if anything upkeep is being made trivial the higher loompoint prices go.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 21, 2012, 06:01:00 pm
there should be complete wipeout of everything
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: MrShine on March 21, 2012, 06:05:50 pm
there should be complete wipeout of everything

So everyone loses?

Yeah I don't think that would go over real well for the health of the mod.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 21, 2012, 06:07:34 pm
The only problem exists for People like me.

You know, I rarely retire(Even though I started playing cRPG even before retiring was even introduced I am only gen 4), and if I do, I loom some Item I want to play with.

The Thing is, when I loomed weapons, I loomed stuff like a normal spear, and before the spear a military sickle.Now I loomed a Long axe.

Those are "rare" heirlooms, but they are rare in the first place because there aren´t that many people playing with them.

The "Easy-to-bore" type of guy I am, I switched my playstyles rather often, so I had to try and swap in my loomed weapon for another one.

Every time I did this, I had to pay something extra to get the trade done, mostly between 30 and 50k.That was money I earned inbetween my retirements.Sometimes I also sold my weapon(For a rather lowish price because my types of weapon weren´t popular), and then I had to put in up to 300k on top to get my desired weapon or loom point.

So basically, all my money I made between those retirements(Pretty much actually since I never wear really expensive gear)went away just for exchanging my few looms with more matching ones.

It also got harder every time I did this, just because Loompoints increased in price so much.

And since loompoints are REALLY expensive right now, I won´t be able to do that in the future.Which means I lost.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 21, 2012, 06:08:32 pm
i wonder how many nolifers would GTX
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: kinngrimm on March 21, 2012, 06:20:44 pm
...
What is important is that marketplace and loompoints reassigning can't exist at the same time. If it existed you could buy loomed shit and unwanted gear and than make it +3. Also there wouldn't be such a need of dealing with other players if you had an option of reassigning your looms.
they could, you just need to imagine the world differently. Who would be hurt by such a duality ?

@MrShine, the only ones i can imagine being hurt atm are those who got nerfed gear. Noone would want it, you wouldn't make as much as you would need to get another loom.
But then again, some play the type of gear, because they love that type of gear not because it gives them the edge. So only the powergamers have reason to be butthurt :) which is not that bad of a deal.

@Gaza
Try to imagine me, in a few years time when i managed to come to lvl 36, only then to learn that crpg development&server support is lost for good ... this is now actually already a complete mindfuck for me ^^
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: The_danish_lost_viking on March 21, 2012, 07:59:41 pm
get gold for how many you kill :-)
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 21, 2012, 08:13:46 pm
how bout exact oposite, you loose gold for every kill you make, lets see who will top the scoreboard then
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: PanPan on March 21, 2012, 08:14:23 pm
I rly would want a whipe...
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: djavo on March 21, 2012, 08:15:32 pm
What about adding central bank, I would be chairman of course?
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 21, 2012, 08:18:43 pm
this is desperate situation for crpg economy, we better call that greek financial expert panos
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Gurnisson on March 21, 2012, 09:15:23 pm
I read 'God is worthless' at first.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 21, 2012, 09:30:54 pm
I read 'God is worthless' at first.

Just happened to me, too.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: POOPHAMMER on March 21, 2012, 09:31:19 pm
I read 'God is worthless' at first.

Yeah? I read it as 'Gold is worthless' then looked again
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Grumbs on March 22, 2012, 01:11:35 am
Put a weekly maintenance system in for each item you own depending on its level. Like everything breaks once per week even if you don't use it. Would get the economy moving more and might make people consider keeping gold rather than just trying to barter with items
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 22, 2012, 01:23:23 am
why would they ? In my view the marketplace main role is to "get rid" of stuff you don't wanna use anymore, either through nerf or just because you are bored of it. At the time you sell, if you have half a brain, you check the actual prices, get half a decent price, take/need perhaps some more gold for a replacement of what you sold for another piece of gear. Over all, win!

The people that continuously retire and sell a part or all their heirloom points do it for the purpose of getting gold, be it to buy cheaper looms, or to pay the upkeep. Trading looms is a separate use of the marketplace, and I don't think it is linked to this issue.

That is a bit harsh, not like he alone planed it all from the beginning, the evil mastermind to fuckup the loomed prizes.
If at all it is the fault of our god chadz ;) , who is trying to test us till he finds a way to make our life better.

Yep, that's why I added "no offense", but it still sound a bit harsh. And of course I don't think anything was planned by an evil mastermind :lol: What happens is more like the consequences of a lack of planning.


I think the market is an interesting metagame at the moment, and it also balances retirement vs leveling extremely elegantly, as I demonstrated earlier.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 22, 2012, 01:33:10 am
That was cool but then they introduced marketplace and said: There won't be any reassigning because there is a marketplace so if we wanted to change something we should go and try dealing with other players.

Really, this.

This is the only thing I think is flawed with the marketplace. When items are buffed/nerfed, people don't get the same price for these before and after the balance changes. They get the estimated values, taking the current stats into account. Which means if the balance team decides item A has to be nerfed, and this item looses 50k of it's "real" value in the process, then the players that have that item effectively lost 50k, because even if they sell the item, they sell it for 50k less than what they could before the nerf.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Zaren on March 22, 2012, 02:39:21 am
its called inflation... its a natural part of all markets. if you want to avoid it put your money into items
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: woody on March 22, 2012, 02:41:36 am
I think this is at least partly due to more people not retiring.

Uber characters, especially if several from 1 clan, will win more, get higher multi, get more cash and not retire. Therefore less loom points but more gold. Hence - inflation.

Once I've got a mw morningstar I wont retire again, variety would come from alts.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Elmetiacos on March 22, 2012, 03:01:33 am
We are reaching a point now where people who sell loom points and +3 items are now so fabulously rich they have broken the upkeep system. +3 items are going for a million and a half now. Loom points are selling for nearly three quarters of a million. No surprise then, that tin cans are coming back and last night on EU1 we even saw a "The Finn" style plated charger bumper in heavy armour.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Rumblood on March 22, 2012, 03:29:19 am
Just like the real world, gold is worth what people are willing to exchange for it. No more, no less.

Nothing needs fixing.  :idea:
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: kinngrimm on March 22, 2012, 08:13:19 am
Really, this.

This is the only thing I think is flawed with the marketplace. When items are buffed/nerfed, people don't get the same price for these before and after the balance changes. They get the estimated values, taking the current stats into account. Which means if the balance team decides item A has to be nerfed, and this item looses 50k of it's "real" value in the process, then the players that have that item effectively lost 50k, because even if they sell the item, they sell it for 50k less than what they could before the nerf.
agreed.

It would be wrong in my eyes if there would be still the perception of devs that they solved the problem of "nerfs of gear and the users not wanting them anymore", by the former introduction of the marketplace system.
I just don't give away the stuff which was nerved now, in the hope that at some point it gets a little more love again, before i get less for something i invested a shitload of time to get it and then the fu finger of a nerf. (to make my whining complete, me the game abuser and imba gear user has had that on more then 7 items sofar, practicly everything i ever used was nerved at some point hrhr, and the marketsystem didn't help at all in the cases where the nerf happened and the marketsystem was already here)
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Tanken on March 22, 2012, 08:22:17 am
If your gold is so worthless why not give it to me? At least then it will be worthwhile.


See what I did there?
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Corwin on March 22, 2012, 09:17:10 am
agreed.

It would be wrong in my eyes if there would be still the perception of devs that they solved the problem of "nerfs of gear and the users not wanting them anymore", by the former introduction of the marketplace system.
I just don't give away the stuff which was nerved now, in the hope that at some point it gets a little more love again, before i get less for something i invested a shitload of time to get it and then the fu finger of a nerf. (to make my whining complete, me the game abuser and imba gear user has had that on more then 7 items sofar, practicly everything i ever used was nerved at some point hrhr, and the marketsystem didn't help at all in the cases where the nerf happened and the marketsystem was already here)


Don't tell me you are still keeping MW Side Sword.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 22, 2012, 12:28:25 pm

Don't tell me you are still keeping MW Side Sword.

Lulz...


My way of fighting that when it happens is trying to keep playing the stuff I like playing with, but sometimes the nerfs just go too far, like making the nerfed item inferior to an untouched, similar item in every possible stat. I also try to keep away from the EZ mode / too popular items with my main character because those are the ones that get nerfed with the highest degree of certitude. With alts, it's another story.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Spawny on March 22, 2012, 12:37:38 pm
I try to play with items few people use as much as possible.

Helps to avoid nerfs, unless it's a blanket nerf.

And besides that, 1 or 2 points less in damage on an item isn't going to make you a worse player. Only in rare cases it will make a difference in the amount of times you need to hit someone before you kill them.
Get the items you like, play with them for fun instead of trying to min-max and profit!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Fartface on March 22, 2012, 05:29:33 pm
I try to play with items few people use as much as possible.

Helps to avoid nerfs, unless it's a blanket nerf.

And besides that, 1 or 2 points less in damage on an item isn't going to make you a worse player. Only in rare cases it will make a difference in the amount of times you need to hit someone before you kill them.
Get the items you like, play with them for fun instead of trying to min-max and profit!
This is what i usualy do right now aswel , and if you're items gets nerfed it means it was TO strong and had to made EQUAL to other weapons of it's value.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 22, 2012, 06:45:03 pm
i got 18+/- 2 heirlooms

And i only sell 1(+1 of my choice randomly) when i wanna play market speculator(or in otherwords, i buy cheap and resell ;p)
Never sell my own looms those, cause i'm selfish. Looms >gold, especially when my goal is to have every item in my inventory a +3, all 120 of them. It's going to take awhile....
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlindGuy on March 22, 2012, 08:23:49 pm
its called inflation... its a natural part of all markets. if you want to avoid it put your money into items


Actualy, its DEVALUATION: the crpg gold is worth less, not the looms more.

Also, much stupidy in this thread: items of equal shop value are NOT equal ingame. The prices are fairly random between weapon types, IE a fairly equal potency weapon from one class is not the same price as another class.


Ultimatly, the ONLY way to stabilize the market, if it was so wished, is to make upkeep an actual factor, not just a joke. Currently if you cannot use what you want whenever you want, you arent doing it right.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: MrShine on March 23, 2012, 12:04:54 am
Ultimatly, the ONLY way to stabilize the market, if it was so wished, is to make upkeep an actual factor, not just a joke. Currently if you cannot use what you want whenever you want, you arent doing it right.

...and all that will do is fuck over the small guys.

Think about how much gold you need to repair equipment for a long time... 100-150k will last you a LOOOONNG time and frankly as long as I don't go crazy I could survive with 30k in the bank as long as I watch it.

In the meantime, you need over a million gold to buy a single +3 loom. 

The only way to effect that is to make gold almost impossible to gain, which - you guessed it - screws over new players way more than the established ones.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Grumbs on March 23, 2012, 12:13:41 am
Tax the 1%! Don't make the game more expensive across the board, that will just harm the average/poor player. The people who need the expensive stuff the most or the save money are the newbs and poor people

How about adding storage cost? Add gold sinks based on overall wealth or add vanity items?
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kivlov on March 23, 2012, 12:28:31 am
...and all that will do is fuck over the small guys.

Think about how much gold you need to repair equipment for a long time... 100-150k will last you a LOOOONNG time and frankly as long as I don't go crazy I could survive with 30k in the bank as long as I watch it.

In the meantime, you need over a million gold to buy a single +3 loom. 

The only way to effect that is to make gold almost impossible to gain, which - you guessed it - screws over new players way more than the established ones.
That 100k will only last a mediumish infantry a long time. Cav need more, heavy plate needs more, heavy cav needs exceedingly more. The people that have tons of gold are playing low upkeep builds.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Gawin on March 23, 2012, 02:31:07 am
You want a solution? Here it is. PUT A TAX ON HEIRLOOMS ON THE MARKET! THE MORE YOU SELL YOUR HEIRLOOM THE MORE YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR TAX UNLESS YOU SELL UNDER 1.4 MIL. That way people will be more cautious on how much they price a loom. No increaseing upkeep or anything.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kivlov on March 23, 2012, 02:46:59 am
You want a solution? Here it is. PUT A TAX ON HEIRLOOMS ON THE MARKET! THE MORE YOU SELL YOUR HEIRLOOM THE MORE YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR TAX UNLESS YOU SELL UNDER 1.4 MIL. That way people will be more cautious on how much they price a loom. No increaseing upkeep or anything.
So your solution to gold being worthless, is instead of letting gold prices go up, keep them low so that everyone has tons of gold and it's more worthless?

Let the market keep increasing. If people want to hoard gold so it keeps increasing, then sucks to be them.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlindGuy on March 23, 2012, 10:37:44 am
I make gold hand over foot, no matter what gear I take. I dont see that ANYONE who isnt a very bad player crutching on gear and failing can fail to make gold hand over foot. And your right. Its worthless. My clanmates know, I am a soft touch, when they are 20, 50, 100k short of something they want to buy, they ask me. When somehow one of them constantly runs out of upkeep money, I send him 100k.

Ultimatly, I play the game to have fun. I play with the gear I like, all the time. To buy this gear as a new starting player would take approx 12 hours of gameplay time, at a x1. Heirlooms, plate, horses, w/e it is you think you need, wont make you a better player. Only playing and understanding the limitations of the games mechanics, the way players exploit shortcomings in the mechanics, the way most players immedietly start to backpeddle once they get hit, those are things that will make you better.

Remove heirlooms, remove gold, random gear, any other silly thing you can say, w/e. The OP of this thread is just unhappy cause heirlooms cost more than he is willing to spend. This needs moving to spam section.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: kinngrimm on March 23, 2012, 08:34:41 pm

Don't tell me you are still keeping MW Side Sword.
:oops: well there was a respec long time ago, but afterwards i loomed me another one  :oops: just for old times sake ... sigh ... that sword was so awesome, i could do moves like with no other weapon, now i just boringly facehug .... sigh ... i don't use it very often because it kind of hurts using it now, it has been nerfed into the ground. Not only lost it dmg, but also weapon length and weapon speed. I could have lived with the dmg and length nerf but the speed nerf was just too much.


... , and if you're items gets nerfed it means it was TO strong and had to made EQUAL to other weapons of it's value.
No offense but this sounds like a true believer to me, "God doesn't make mistakes, the bible holds the only true way ..."
After introducing gear, a nerf comes pretty often, afterwards another nerf/balance can come ... not only depends it on the one item which has been changed but also other items which have been changed over time which make other changes seem obsolete or more powerful. So what you say is too simple and to bring it back to topic, a nerfed weapon can be overnerfed and in combination on a built you may have it can render your built completly useless. Been there. I have had a very specialised built with sidesword, after the changes now nearly a year ago the built just didn't work anymore and i switched my whole gear and default generational built. Which then in the end may result in getting rid of that messed up gear, but none whants to buy that pile of junk as the nerf just was too much. So here we are on the point Kaffein and me where talking about over a few posts, that the market system was argued to be introduced to handle that kind of problem which it does not.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Lichen on March 24, 2012, 07:06:35 pm
i wonder how many nolifers would GTX
I wonder how many lifers should stop thinking they deserve all the benefits of no lifers if they don't put the effort no lifers put in. 

[sarcasm]
Oh, gold is worthless? Yeah none of us can retire then loom some expensive thing then sell it for 620,000 gold. [/sarcasm] Then you'd 'only' have all that gold to basically use whatever you want in the game and not worry for a gen about upkeep too much. Oh but then the complaint is too many players don't have to worry about upkeep because they are rich.....ohhh....the whining will never end. There will always be something to whine about! Always something not 'fair'...except that it totally is fair except to those who want everything for nothing.


I try to play with items few people use as much as possible.

Helps to avoid nerfs, unless it's a blanket nerf.
Make sure not to do good with those items or calls for nerfs will come. [sarcasm]Because we all know any time a player does good it's because some OP gear[/sarcasm]
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: SixThumbs on March 24, 2012, 07:52:14 pm
The marketplace needs quantitative easing mark III! This will surely solve all the problems!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Entaro on March 25, 2012, 07:36:58 am
repair costs as a factor of generation.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Fartface on March 25, 2012, 04:48:21 pm
Listen , i always keep a general 100k for repairs that wont involve tradings at all , i realy dont care if they give a repair raise.
At a certain point people just wont feel like trading anymore and then prices will go down.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Lichen on March 25, 2012, 07:54:08 pm
repair costs as a factor of generation.
That's actually a good idea. I wouldn't mind even though my repairs would increase. Would help shut up the whiners a bit. Either that or make heirlooms cost more to repair. An alternative (and not serious solution) would be to have special gear for whiners, it would be colored pink and say 'QQ armor for whiners only' on the armor but would have the same stats as heirloomed versions only it would be cheap to buy. That way crybabies can still have their looms for cheap yet they will be humiliated in game as the 'price'. Actually if I was a dev I would do this seriously.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Leshma on March 25, 2012, 08:48:03 pm
Upkeep isn't the problem, selling heirlooms and funding expensive loadout is. Domusperkele and his friend ciutuoptiikka are constantly riding mamluke and using heavy armor. It's pretty obvious they are funding it by selling heirlooms.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Life on March 25, 2012, 09:11:50 pm
I suggest changing the marketplace to where you can only trade items for items. gold should be farmed through gametime and your skill through achieving higher multipliers. Make it so only allow trading +1 items for another +1 item.,etc. Aswell as an option to transfer your loompoint for cash ( a set number decided by one of the higher ups ) and you recieve the gold, and the loompoint disappears and your back to level 1.

Thanks for reading., Thats just my quick idea on it from reading the first post and havent really put much thought into this.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Mckillroy on March 25, 2012, 09:34:29 pm
This is a very simply solved problem...increase the level cap to retire. This will make looms harder to find, causing people to not sell them or continue to sell them for the ridicules amounts. ( And increase the amount of money received per battle for even peasants can have a chance to make money). All in all the problem is not the market place's fault but high or low expectations of market place users, everything is worth different to someone else.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Lichen on March 25, 2012, 09:46:31 pm
Upkeep isn't the problem, selling heirlooms and funding expensive loadout is. Domusperkele and his friend ciutuoptiikka are constantly riding mamluke and using heavy armor. It's pretty obvious they are funding it by selling heirlooms.
So how often should players be able to use heavy gear? What if a player spent a whole gen in rags so they could afford to use expensive gear? Should effort be rewarded in this game or should everybody get the same benefits no matter what?
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 25, 2012, 09:50:39 pm
lower upkeep by half, remove loom for gold trade, and make only loom for loom trade possible, problem fixed
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlindGuy on March 26, 2012, 11:27:15 am
lower upkeep by half, remove loom for gold trade, and make only loom for loom trade possible, problem fixed


No. Double or even triple upkeep. Soon we will be back at seeing +1 for 300k, less useless tards carrying xbows with 50+ armour, less plated goons making up for skill gaps by crutching gear, less Horsexbows on mamlukes.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 26, 2012, 11:38:33 am

No. Double or even triple upkeep. Soon we will be back at seeing +1 for 300k, less useless tards carrying xbows with 50+ armour, less plated goons making up for skill gaps by crutching gear, less Horsexbows on mamlukes.

that wouldnt fix anything, you would pay less for +1, +2 or +3  item but thats because you would have lot less money, so its same.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlindGuy on March 26, 2012, 11:53:22 am
that wouldnt fix anything, you would pay less for +1, +2 or +3  item but thats because you would have lot less money, so its same.


No, YOU might have less money. I will have same money. If upkeep seriously affects you at all then you are cructhing on your gear.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 26, 2012, 11:54:36 am
so you would try to save your money that you curently have by going around in pesant robes ?
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Leshma on March 26, 2012, 12:03:34 pm

No, YOU might have less money. I will have same money. If upkeep seriously affects you at all then you are cructhing on your gear.

No, you wouldn't. Triple upkeep means paying 3 times as much for bodkin arrows.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Gurnisson on March 26, 2012, 01:44:50 pm
Basically my max upkeep would go from 777 to 2331. Wouldn't mind it that much, but saying that it wouldn't affect your money gain at all is just plain stupid.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Draggon on March 26, 2012, 02:41:45 pm
Made a suggestion post about fixing this here (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,28740.msg420210.html#msg420210). 
See watcha think.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlindGuy on March 26, 2012, 03:24:07 pm
No, you wouldn't. Triple upkeep means paying 3 times as much for bodkin arrows.

Why would I start using bodkin arrows?

EDIT: felt I had to clarify: When I use bow'n'arrow, I own MW arrows. Like a Bahaus. Kills you just fine all the time Leshma, bam straight thru your headband. I do like you tho, you are easy to recognise from range and are stylish to watch fighting. Then, like the prick I am, I shoot you dead.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Lichen on March 26, 2012, 07:15:28 pm
less plated goons making up for skill gaps by crutching gear
[sarcasm]Yeah I hate those crutchers....when they help my team win I make sure to insult them and tell them they should wear rags so we lose since I hate winning. Course if they can block and actually demonstrate skill maybe they wear plate..you know to survive better....How dumb for them wanting to survive. They should only wear agreed upon by the leet non scrub community gear. [/sarcasm]
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 26, 2012, 07:26:24 pm
do you guys remember crpg before the upkeep patch, everyone had best armors that they wanted, wepons, horses, it was very unbalanced, and unrealistic, but it was MORE FUN, and itsnt that a core value of a game, fun, something that you do in your free time, and have great time doing it, not worrying will you be able to pay upkeep for armor you want.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: kinngrimm on March 26, 2012, 08:12:43 pm
do you guys remember crpg before the upkeep patch, everyone had best armors that they wanted, wepons, horses, it was very unbalanced, and unrealistic, but it was MORE FUN, and itsnt that a core value of a game, fun, something that you do in your free time, and have great time doing it, not worrying will you be able to pay upkeep for armor you want.
fun for whom? not the new folks, i remember the treat mill, i didn't get a kill for 2 weeks when i started playing crpg(with only a few hours playing time before that in M&B nativ) I told my friends on steam like ... yeah my first kill ... i got one ... finally
well as peasent around maniac madmen in heavy gear ... no fun ... my only hope was to gear up myself and perhaps become better over time as well, both helped, but it was a long walk. So i do feel that especially for new guys the upkeep system is actually beneficiary.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 26, 2012, 08:46:38 pm
back then, after 2 weeks of less then casual gaming, you were not pesant anymore
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 26, 2012, 08:46:48 pm
fun for whom? not the new folks, i remember the treat mill, i didn't get a kill for 2 weeks when i started playing crpg(with only a few hours playing time before that in M&B nativ) I told my friends on steam like ... yeah my first kill ... i got one ... finally
well as peasent around maniac madmen in heavy gear ... no fun ... my only hope was to gear up myself and perhaps become better over time as well, both helped, but it was a long walk. So i do feel that especially for new guys the upkeep system is actually beneficiary.

I very well remember playing as a peasant repeatedly (alts and retirement), and it was always fun back then. With such a gimped char, the goal wasn't winning or killing, it was surviving. That's quite refreshing in a MP game.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 26, 2012, 09:20:54 pm
Yeah, good old times were awesome.

Also it was just extremely satisfying to get a kill as peasant :D Today it´s more like meh...Since if you are at least level 10 or so you can start making your first kills.

Great fun back then.

Also I remember the ENORMOUS satisfaction when having your gear together...
I was so proud when I had my Transitional Set + Steel shield, weapons and Destrier.


I used to watch myself the first seconds of the battle, admiring my beauty.

Today you can buy that Set after 1 day of hardcore or 2 Days of medium gaming.And then you have to pay upkeep for it, which kinda ruins the feeling that it´s YOURs and that you EARNED it.


Still, todays cRPG is fun and I like the fact that there are a lot less tincans and such.That´s why I think Upkeep was an okayish decision in the end.

But DO NOT under all circumstances raise the upkeep.That would kill the last bit of fun.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 26, 2012, 09:41:13 pm
everything was far less stressfull, when you lost, you wouldnt mind, you would say, darn they beat us, and you would go happy to the next round, now when you loose, 100 stress elements come to your mind, fuck there goes my multi, im always on x1, useless team i need multi.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlindGuy on March 26, 2012, 09:45:13 pm
everything was far less stressfull, when you lost, you wouldnt mind, you would say, darn they beat us, and you would go happy to the next round, now when you loose, 100 stress elements come to your mind, fuck there goes my multi, im always on x1, useless team i need multi.

Whats a multi? Your playing it wrong if you care tbh. Just MO
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Xol! on March 26, 2012, 09:45:28 pm
Man, I remember back when I bought my first 'real' armor.  Brigandine & a sallet with visor.  It was so fucking ugly, but it was mine.  I miss old crpg.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 26, 2012, 09:49:19 pm
Yeah, good old times were awesome.

Also it was just extremely satisfying to get a kill as peasant :D Today it´s more like meh...Since if you are at least level 10 or so you can start making your first kills.

Great fun back then.

Also I remember the ENORMOUS satisfaction when having your gear together...
I was so proud when I had my Transitional Set + Steel shield, weapons and Destrier.


I used to watch myself the first seconds of the battle, admiring my beauty.

Today you can buy that Set after 1 day of hardcore or 2 Days of medium gaming.And then you have to pay upkeep for it, which kinda ruins the feeling that it´s YOURs and that you EARNED it.


Still, todays cRPG is fun and I like the fact that there are a lot less tincans and such.That´s why I think Upkeep was an okayish decision in the end.

But DO NOT under all circumstances raise the upkeep.That would kill the last bit of fun.


Aaaaaah those first kills, they where soooo good. Now playing feels like wasting my time and gold when I don't have a good multi.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 26, 2012, 09:52:55 pm
Exactly!

They should make it that everybody gets a fixed rate of Gold and exp per minute(For example equivalent of x3)+The Winning team gets an extra tick worth of exp and gold immediately.

or something like that.

Would at least tone down SOME of the stress factors you have in cRPG right now.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 26, 2012, 10:06:15 pm
Exactly!

They should make it that everybody gets a fixed rate of Gold and exp per minute(For example equivalent of x3)+The Winning team gets an extra tick worth of exp and gold immediately.

or something like that.

Would at least tone down SOME of the stress factors you have in cRPG right now.

I actually devised an idea I might explain here :

Every player could be given the choice to be either a casual or a hardcore player. Casuals would earn gold not based on ingame ticks, but rather a fixed rate per day or week or wathever, with only a limited amount being carried over if not used completely. That way the weekend player can still enjoy the game without worrying about multis and only have upkeep as a remote problem. Hardcore players would play just like everybody does now, maybe with altered upkeep constants.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 26, 2012, 10:22:05 pm
I actually devised an idea I might explain here :

Every player could be given the choice to be either a casual or a hardcore player. Casuals would earn gold not based on ingame ticks, but rather a fixed rate per day or week or wathever, with only a limited amount being carried over if not used completely. That way the weekend player can still enjoy the game without worrying about multis and only have upkeep as a remote problem. Hardcore players would play just like everybody does now, maybe with altered upkeep constants.
IMO, I consider this idea horrible, but anyway, IMO: Remove upkeep, alter armors/weapons so they're not balanced by costs whatsoever... well, peasant rags be peasant rags, but once you're in the actual armor stage light armor should in no way be worse than heavy armor (IMO it isn't now either), make all items five times as expensive, make leveling up take twenty times as much time, flatten curve inbetween 1-5 slightly, and in between 5-10 completely, and make 10-31 go so that ten is the longest level and it slowly (barely whatsoever) decreases, enforce retirement at 31/respecing so much that you've earned 31 worth of exp, gives looms slight better bonus' remove gold once you've retired, remove all none-heirloom items upon retirement too...
IMO this'd be really fun, just running around as a peasant most of the time along with a large percentage of other players, but due to a few tincan gods you would actually feel like a weak peasant and not just an equal, and due to there being quite a few peasants you'd at the same time feel like you were having fun fighting.
Also, reward exp over time spent ingame, gold over damage dealt and being close to kills (this slightly less than damage dealt). I know everyone else will hate this idea, but IMO it'd be the most fun warband possible.
EDIT: And make nearly no hits glance.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 26, 2012, 10:25:09 pm
Whats a multi? Your playing it wrong if you care tbh. Just MO

yes, because being in 10k gear against 80ppl in 30k+ gear is better then everyone in 30k+ gear
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 26, 2012, 10:25:35 pm
The Problem with that I think is that chadz once stated he wanted the mod to be more like it´s now with upkeep.

So I dont think there is any chance of going back to a system even nearly similar to the old one.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 26, 2012, 10:33:55 pm
The Problem with that I think is that chadz once stated he wanted the mod to be more like it´s now with upkeep.

So I dont think there is any chance of going back to a system even nearly similar to the old one.
I know, that's why YOU need to make new mod, there can be no discussion about it, you shall be the next big Donkey, now get to work!!!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 26, 2012, 10:38:56 pm
And now there´s 2 problems:

1. I would consider it stealing Ideas + It would be hard to gather many players because many will think the same

2. I cant code(Hell, otherwise I´d probably do it in some kind of way...)
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 26, 2012, 10:43:03 pm
And now there´s 2 problems:

1. I would consider it stealing Ideas + It would be hard to gather many players because many will think the same

2. I cant code(Hell, otherwise I´d probably do it in some kind of way...)
(BTW: Whoever reed the YOU part of my last post are now forced to work as slaves for NCBs Wannabe cRPG made by B3RS3RK)
1. TBH idea of cRPG isn't too original, it's basically the first mod idea anyone would think of, now making it probably isn't nearly as simple.

2. Learn it.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 26, 2012, 10:46:46 pm
You are right.I will pirate some C++ and other Books right now and start learning.

Maybe in half a year I will be able to make my first minimod.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Nessaj on March 26, 2012, 10:48:50 pm
If you liked no upkeep why didn't you play and promote Xmas CRPG? Since no one did there's nothing to discuss on that matter, only an extreme minority desired that. Done deal.

Multiplier is the spawn of all evil. You play because you have it or you leave because you lose it. Mix it with Auto team balance being fubar and always splitting you and your friends up. That's two daily reasons for clicking ALT + F4.

Then combine it with being bumped or shot 24/7 these days when playing on anything else but Siege.

Meh.

The only thing that I find "fun" these days is playing my archer alt and shooting Cav horses, there's no time to do anything else but shoot Cav because there's so many but at least when succeeding in this venture the team 99.9% wins the round.

If upkeep would be removed we'd just see 20 times as much Cav plus everyone in in general in Plate/Heavy armor. The only reason 'no upkeep' ever worked is because the mod was relatively new, eventually we saw everyone use the highest tiers of gear and that's something which would without a doubt ruin the mod completely if allowed to continue.

What's needed is an idea to replace the Multiplier feature plus actually fixing Auto Team Balance -- making banners absolute but without the possibility to "exploit" it by having multiple clans use the same -- it would with guarantee have more people play the mod overall, otherwise people will continue to trickle away, not just due to these reasons though of course.

Upkeep could be replaced with another idea as well and the developers have sought that in public ages ago, but so far no one ever come up with anything that would actually work.

Fix/Change:
Personally I'd try the old X gold per kill via range, but XP using the multiplier system.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 26, 2012, 11:03:25 pm
If you liked no upkeep why didn't you play and promote Xmas CRPG? Since no one did there's nothing to discuss on that matter, only an extreme minority desired that. Done deal.
[When I heard about it I checked it out server=empty, checked it quite a few times, now it's gone last I checked.]
Multiplier is the spawn of all evil. You play because you have it or you leave because you lose it. Mix it with Auto team balance being fubar and always splitting you and your friends up. That's two daily reasons for clicking ALT + F4.
[I don't believe it's very fun feeling like you're forced to sit on the pc while you should leave due to having a multi (you aren't actually, but it's a mood ruiner IMO), and I dislike feeling like GTXting because I'm on a shitty multi and has lost 5k the very day, my suggestion was therefore quite obviously based on having fun instead of drugs (my badly done metaphor for actually enjoying playing instead of just "enjoying" being on 5x, and then having your mood grinded to dust on a 1x spree, infact one of the main reasons I nearly only play duel server is that I can't stand those 2h 1-2x spree's...]
Then combine it with being bumped or shot 24/7 these days when playing on anything else but Siege.

Meh.

The only thing that I find "fun" these days is playing my archer alt and shooting Cav horses, there's no time to do anything else but shoot Cav because there's so many but at least when succeeding in this venture the team 99.9% wins the round.
[This would heavily put a limit on cav due to hybrid-cav-melee only being able to play cav for like one or two levels effectively before retiring...]
If upkeep would be removed we'd just see 20 times as much Cav plus everyone in in general in Plate/Heavy armor. The only reason 'no upkeep' ever worked is because the mod was relatively new, eventually we saw everyone use the highest tiers of gear and that's something which would without a doubt ruin the mod completely if allowed to continue.
[Not sure if you reed my post, but, as I said I want shit to be expensive as fuck, and I want auto-retirement removing all gold and everything but your loomed item, sure some would go cav, but they'd be like lvl 25 and retiring again soon... what this would be doing is creating much more peasants and low level chars, and people might just loom their low level weapons due to using them much of the time and still wanting to be effective against the high level ones... I doupt I'll ever loom my set of wardarts for when I'm a low level trolling, which is the only way I have fun low level, due to there being no other low levels out there... I also said I wanted armor to be balanced so it isn't a choice between "Strong expensive shit, and weak cheap shit", more weight per armor point! etc!]
What's needed is an idea to replace the Multiplier feature plus actually fixing Auto Team Balance -- making banners absolute but without the possibility to "exploit" it by having multiple clans use the same -- it would with guarantee have more people play the mod overall, otherwise people will continue to trickle away, not just due to these reasons though of course.

Upkeep could be replaced with another idea as well and the developers have sought that in public ages ago, but so far no one ever come up with anything that would actually work.

Fix/Change:
  • Multiplier
  • Auto Team Balance
  • ((New idea instead of Upkeep depending on the solution for 1))
  • Register Assists
Personally I'd try the old X gold per kill via range, but XP using the multiplier system.
[Which was nearly exactly what I suggested]
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Riddaren on March 26, 2012, 11:10:08 pm
There is no problem. The economy is working perfectly and since you now can offer gold for an item I don't see anything left to be done.

Heirloom prices will peak around the time the player base of crpg hits it's peak. 1 year from now?
After that they will slowly decrease as more and more players stop to retire their main characters.


The upkeep doesn't affect players who still retire the same way it affects those who have stopped retiring. The difference is huge.

1 gen income = 440k
1 gen heirloom point 650k (and increasing)

So a player that still retires his main character gets an income boost of currently 148% compared to someone who doesn't retire his main...
If you are still retiring - stop complaining about upkeep... :)
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Logen on March 26, 2012, 11:10:40 pm
Multiplier is the spawn of all evil.
Weak-minded people!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlindGuy on March 27, 2012, 12:55:01 pm
Im VERY sry to be the voice of reason:

1. If you quit because of losing multi (with no external factors. Its different to think "Well, Im kinda hungry, gonna make some dinner when I lose this multi") then, IMHO: Fuck off, you arent playing for fun.

2. If you REQUIRE multi to use your fav gear, and actually watch to see what your loosing by using high tier gear even when not on a multi, then, IMHO: Fuck off, you are trying to use too much gear.

In native, much like in Counterstrike and many other games predating Warband expansion to Mount n Blade, you are given a set amount of gold, to customize your starting gear. Each life you can try to improve this gear by killing, winning round etc, so next round you can upgrade. Guess which servers seldom had GOOD players? The ones giving you 5k or something stupid at start: Why? because everyone maxing gear is retarded, doesnt make for positive play, teamwork, effort/reward correlation or fun. This system obviously doesnt work for crpg, since everyone has bought their gear. But the IDEA of rewarding positive play by allowing better gear is SOUND.

Right now I cannot think of a better way to ensure all of YOU dont just slap on plate and grab a greatsword/huge poleaxe round after round. We saw from early crpg that THAT is exactly what 90% of you DO. Reguardless of what your character started out as, as soon as possible you made it into a armoured main battle tank. If you dont like upkeep based system controlling you so you DONT act like a douche endlessly, its simple: Dont be a douche. Check old Taleworlds forum and you will see my old Signature: even at the height of platespam, I wore blue tunic, blue hood, wrapping boots, carried a longbow and a maul, or wore blue tunic and hood, and spammed you all down with a longsword/katana. I fucking LOVED those days. I dont care what armour ppl wear, I will defeat it, because it wont make you a better player, just a slower runner. Then you all cried and cried and AGI got nerfed. Seeing what you all intended, chadz, in his wisdom, introduced the slot system and the upkeep system to stop you all from being the my old friends you all want to be, all in Plate, all the time, just because "I played for AAAAAAGES now can I have a reward reguardless of my actual progress or skill level."

For those of you who REALLY dont play for fun anymore: Single player native, wear what you want and spam down on brainless bots.

If any of you DISSAGREE with what I have written, Prove me WRONG by NOT crying in this thread. Im off to lunch, have a good rage. Egoists.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 27, 2012, 01:50:03 pm
Well, for me, since upkeep, it´s a constant run for the next retirement.Gold is more of a sidething, not too important for me.

Before, you had actual goals besides retiring or only leveling up: Getting the best gear for you, for example.

This comes natural today because you earn so much gold fast.

Nessaj made an imo really good suggestion: Get the old Gold System back but keep exp like it is now.

I would add to that that exp should stay at a fixed rate/minute So you dont have the multiplier stress.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 27, 2012, 03:46:50 pm
Im VERY sry to be the voice of reason:

1. If you quit because of losing multi (with no external factors. Its different to think "Well, Im kinda hungry, gonna make some dinner when I lose this multi") then, IMHO: Fuck off, you arent playing for fun.

2. If you REQUIRE multi to use your fav gear, and actually watch to see what your loosing by using high tier gear even when not on a multi, then, IMHO: Fuck off, you are trying to use too much gear.

In native, much like in Counterstrike and many other games predating Warband expansion to Mount n Blade, you are given a set amount of gold, to customize your starting gear. Each life you can try to improve this gear by killing, winning round etc, so next round you can upgrade. Guess which servers seldom had GOOD players? The ones giving you 5k or something stupid at start: Why? because everyone maxing gear is retarded, doesnt make for positive play, teamwork, effort/reward correlation or fun. This system obviously doesnt work for crpg, since everyone has bought their gear. But the IDEA of rewarding positive play by allowing better gear is SOUND.

Right now I cannot think of a better way to ensure all of YOU dont just slap on plate and grab a greatsword/huge poleaxe round after round. We saw from early crpg that THAT is exactly what 90% of you DO. Reguardless of what your character started out as, as soon as possible you made it into a armoured main battle tank. If you dont like upkeep based system controlling you so you DONT act like a douche endlessly, its simple: Dont be a douche. Check old Taleworlds forum and you will see my old Signature: even at the height of platespam, I wore blue tunic, blue hood, wrapping boots, carried a longbow and a maul, or wore blue tunic and hood, and spammed you all down with a longsword/katana. I fucking LOVED those days. I dont care what armour ppl wear, I will defeat it, because it wont make you a better player, just a slower runner. Then you all cried and cried and AGI got nerfed. Seeing what you all intended, chadz, in his wisdom, introduced the slot system and the upkeep system to stop you all from being the my old friends you all want to be, all in Plate, all the time, just because "I played for AAAAAAGES now can I have a reward reguardless of my actual progress or skill level."

For those of you who REALLY dont play for fun anymore: Single player native, wear what you want and spam down on brainless bots.

If any of you DISSAGREE with what I have written, Prove me WRONG by NOT crying in this thread. Im off to lunch, have a good rage. Egoists.
I am a HT, I use steppe horse and four throwing lances/four stacks of jarids,I'm not rich, only loom I got is a 1+ weapon, I wear next to no armor, basicly I'm the cheapest my "class" can go, and even though I don't have much gold the reason I wear this gear is not because I'm afraid to go broke, (I duel a lot and I recall once losing 5k in a few EU_1 rounds after having goten 10k in the duel server, but at times when I'm not overflowing with cash then I have to care about my multi, have it affect my mood badly if I go 1x for several rounds fx, I play for fun, multi takes away fun, solution=remove multi, however, with this gear someone not having Kafein as their pimp and not betting on everything possible and never selling their looms and on 1x as much as me WOULD go broke, is it fair that I gotta leech (or duel) or sell my loompoint if I wanna play the class I like?
No one cares about upkeep but new poor players, you know why I stopped wearing plate on my main back when i was a horrible two-hander noob in ant? I was way faster, way more effective, etc.
Balancing items by the cost is bullshit, There are some weapons that are better than other weapons in all ways but the cost, for example Dadao and danish greatsword, each weapon (but looms) should be unique, not just "Cheaper/More expensive and worse/better version of x." also, slots makes sense...
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 27, 2012, 05:45:18 pm
If upkeep would be removed we'd just see 20 times as much Cav plus everyone in in general in Plate/Heavy armor. The only reason 'no upkeep' ever worked is because the mod was relatively new, eventually we saw everyone use the highest tiers of gear and that's something which would without a doubt ruin the mod completely if allowed to continue.

No upkeep would work now as well. Armor got nerfed to oblivion, and horses too. Weapons and pretty much all items are nowhere near being consistant in their price/power ordering. The only thing that should be done if we remove the upkeep is nerfing arrows, mostly bodkin arrows.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlindGuy on March 27, 2012, 06:20:01 pm
No upkeep would work now as well. Armor got nerfed to oblivion, and horses too. Weapons and pretty much all items are nowhere near being consistant in their price/power ordering. The only thing that should be done if we remove the upkeep is nerfing arrows, mostly bodkin arrows.

OR, radical thinking here: have items BE balanced by price...tbh getting rid of upkeep cause of weapon inbalance is like throwing out your door cause it sticks on the frame: SAND IT DOWN by balancing items, dont get a new door.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: gazda on March 27, 2012, 07:20:34 pm
Im VERY sry to be the voice of reason:



HAHAHA LOL
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: DrTaco on March 27, 2012, 08:05:46 pm
HAHAHA LOL
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Logen on March 27, 2012, 08:47:15 pm
If you quit because of losing multi (with no external factors. Its different to think "Well, Im kinda hungry, gonna make some dinner when I lose this multi") then, IMHO: Fuck off, you arent playing for fun.
That is absolutely true.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 28, 2012, 12:05:41 am
That is absolutely true.
When you're essentially broke (been there, done that) and you're on a 1x streak for 1-3hours then yes, I quit because of multi, what else should I do? Leech?
Title: Re: Gold is worthless
Post by: Tristan on March 28, 2012, 12:30:47 am
I said it ages ago that the sinks of crpg does not match the faucets hence a rampant inflation would/is occuring.

This is not a big deal for most players who has been here since day 1, but it does make it less appealing for new players to start cRPG.
They still have to fight upkeep, buy items, less xp per tick etc. etc.

Unless new sinks are presented the gold per heirloom prise will rise.
Adding new items will only increase it further.

What could be done? Well maybe it should cost 100k gold to retire or every level above 30 cost 100k gold to receive att and skill points.
100k gold to go from lvl 1 - 20. 10% brokers fee on market and 5% sales tax would also help.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Logen on March 28, 2012, 01:08:21 am
When you're essentially broke (been there, done that) and you're on a 1x streak for 1-3hours then yes, I quit because of multi, what else should I do? Leech?
Well your sole purpose in this game is trolling and badmouthing ppl anyway  :lol:
Title: Re: Gold is worthless
Post by: kinngrimm on March 28, 2012, 09:50:13 am
I said it ages ago that the sinks of crpg does not match the faucets hence a rampant inflation would/is occuring.

This is not a big deal for most players who has been here since day 1, but it does make it less appealing for new players to start cRPG.
They still have to fight upkeep, buy items, less xp per tick etc. etc.

Unless new sinks are presented the gold per heirloom prise will rise.
Adding new items will only increase it further.
...
agreed, and make it fair for those new players and also so they perhaps can close the gap to those who played a lot longer

1. The first 3 generations NO UPKEEP
2. instead of a increased XP/Gold ratio do it the other way round. 100% at gen 1, 99% at gen 2 ... 86% at gen 14(cap) (or start that with generation 9(that way the new guys were easily to gain 3 mw heirloomed items or make it generation 30(whatever fits the bill)
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 28, 2012, 09:55:35 am
maybe doubling the buying price of stuff(but not the Upkeep) could also help?
Title: Re: Gold is worthless
Post by: Corwin on March 28, 2012, 11:47:10 am
agreed, and make it fair for those new players and also so they perhaps can close the gap to those who played a lot longer

1. The first 3 generations NO UPKEEP
2. instead of a increased XP/Gold ratio do it the other way round. 100% at gen 1, 99% at gen 2 ... 86% at gen 14(cap) (or start that with generation 9(that way the new guys were easily to gain 3 mw heirloomed items or make it generation 30(whatever fits the bill)

Personally, I wouldn't like being run over by new players on plated chargers who respec every time just before they hit lvl 31.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Turboflex on March 28, 2012, 04:37:45 pm
I don't think inflation hurts new people.

Once you explain to them how to sell loom points it's actually pretty nice. They get a huge wad of gold after their first gen and basically all their money struggles are over.
Title: Re: Gold is worthless
Post by: Kafein on March 28, 2012, 05:57:00 pm
agreed, and make it fair for those new players and also so they perhaps can close the gap to those who played a lot longer

1. The first 3 generations NO UPKEEP
2. instead of a increased XP/Gold ratio do it the other way round. 100% at gen 1, 99% at gen 2 ... 86% at gen 14(cap) (or start that with generation 9(that way the new guys were easily to gain 3 mw heirloomed items or make it generation 30(whatever fits the bill)

What's the point of retirement then ? May as well be called retardation :?
Title: Re: Gold is worthless
Post by: Lichen on March 28, 2012, 07:01:47 pm
agreed, and make it fair for those new players and also so they perhaps can close the gap to those who played a lot longer
The game is already 'fair'.  Oh, I forgot, people want something for nothing, and there's the 'problem'.




Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Riddaren on March 28, 2012, 07:46:46 pm
There is no problem. The economy is working perfectly and since you now can offer gold for an item I don't see anything left to be done.

Heirloom prices will peak around the time the player base of crpg hits it's peak. 1 year from now?
After that they will slowly decrease as more and more players stop to retire their main characters.


The upkeep doesn't affect players who still retire the same way it affects those who have stopped retiring. The difference is huge.

1 gen income = 440k
1 gen heirloom point 650k (and increasing)

So a player that still retires his main character gets an income boost of currently 148% compared to someone who doesn't retire his main...
If you are still retiring - stop complaining about upkeep... :)

I'm gonna quote myself as it seems no one read it or is mentioning the same thing - the massive upkeep penelty for non retiring players.
You people are spoiled. You get 650k extra gold per 9 mil XP and still complain about upkeep...
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Snoozer on March 29, 2012, 10:34:54 am
ya what happened to xmascrpg?i went in there for a minute it was rather a fun peasant war i 4got all about it i thought the die hard's

would have taken it over

and on the other not the only reason the market prices are so high is because buyers have no self control

if you do not buy these outrageously priced items they will have to lower them....

there's no real need to nerf or buff anything,maybe putting in a market for looms seeing how people trade them anyway you might as well

give it a currency but that has been offered dozens of times by now and still it  lol

anywho whats the problem?its a sellers market sell your shit and wait till its a buyers market,

the market is where you gamble ladies and gentlemen play your chips or fold and sit out lol, im sitting on mine idk about yall
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlindGuy on March 29, 2012, 02:22:19 pm
I'm gonna quote myself as it seems no one read it or is mentioning the same thing - the massive upkeep penelty for non retiring players.
You people are spoiled. You get 650k extra gold per 9 mil XP and still complain about upkeep...

No dude, cause that price is NOT a permanent fact: If buyers stop being so desperate the prices will drop, unfortunatly they mostly view the gold the same way I do: Imaginary numbers that dont mean anything, might as well spend them hand over foot cause what else you gonna do with them. To lower prices we would need higher gold sinks and that isnt what any cav wants either tho, is it?
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Fartface on March 29, 2012, 03:22:29 pm
Nobody wants to buy my mw bamboo spear,  people are poor:(
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: rebbrown on March 29, 2012, 04:03:58 pm
I only started recently, but already am struggling with upkeep costs on a rouncey+nomad robe+light xbow+bolts+rus boots+nasal helm. I can't imagine what it must be like with heavy armor and an expensive weapon :/
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Kafein on March 29, 2012, 04:09:32 pm
I only started recently, but already am struggling with upkeep costs on a rouncey+nomad robe+light xbow+bolts+rus boots+nasal helm. I can't imagine what it must be like with heavy armor and an expensive weapon :/

You should be ok using that for a few generations after retiring and selling your loom point once.

Nobody wants to buy my mw bamboo spear,  people are poor:(

Well, depends on your price. It's quite a good weapon.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Haze_The_Hobo on March 29, 2012, 04:13:51 pm
Easiest way to gain gold, without selling loompoint is simply playing 1st generation with shitty gear. I gained 100k+ during my first gene and since that i've gained money with every generation. Another way to save money is to use shitty gear until you reach levels 25+, since before that u ain't too useful anyways.

Also if you like to play cav and have troubles keeping the gold in the bank, play without horse every now and then, especially when map doesn't truly suit cavalry.

I only started recently, but already am struggling with upkeep costs on a rouncey+nomad robe+light xbow+bolts+rus boots+nasal helm. I can't imagine what it must be like with heavy armor and an expensive weapon :/
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: rebbrown on March 29, 2012, 04:38:06 pm
Easiest way to gain gold, without selling loompoint is simply playing 1st generation with shitty gear. I gained 100k+ during my first gene and since that i've gained money with every generation. Another way to save money is to use shitty gear until you reach levels 25+, since before that u ain't too useful anyways.

Also if you like to play cav and have troubles keeping the gold in the bank, play without horse every now and then, especially when map doesn't truly suit cavalry.

Yeah, I've been trying that out before. Camping spawn, waiting for their cav to come by and then stealing one from a dead enemy seems to be the cheap way of playing a horse xbow xD
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Snoozer on March 30, 2012, 02:15:25 am
i use to just every once and a while dress in me pilgrim suit [sarcasm]AND ROLLED THE SERVER!!![/sarcasm]

but sadly crafting dun fucked that up Q_Q

im scared to ever wear it out of fear of missing a thine
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Entaro on March 31, 2012, 10:45:23 pm
make only loom for loom trade possible, problem fixed

Best idea IMO.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: BlindGuy on April 11, 2012, 01:36:11 pm
I only started recently, but already am struggling with upkeep costs on a rouncey+nomad robe+light xbow+bolts+rus boots+nasal helm. I can't imagine what it must be like with heavy armor and an expensive weapon :/

Had to bump this thread when I read this.

OF COURSE it is costing you alot to upkeep a horse xbow. You should NOT be playing a horse xbow. Its not a class, its a joke that all crossbows are not unusable on horseback. It bears no resemblence to anything seen in history, should not be possible, it not realistically viable vs anything other than very poor players, and costs a lot to kinda make you think: This is a trollbuild niche I am in, I should just learn to play and not try to be a my old friend.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Brrrak on April 11, 2012, 06:09:04 pm
zimbabweRPG
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Turboflex on April 11, 2012, 08:06:36 pm
I'm gonna quote myself as it seems no one read it or is mentioning the same thing - the massive upkeep penelty for non retiring players.
You people are spoiled. You get 650k extra gold per 9 mil XP and still complain about upkeep...

Spoiled? Funny you ignore the upside of not retiring... You never have to play as a weak peasant and always have a small power advantage even over lvl 30s. The trade off is you lose loompoints.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 11, 2012, 08:10:40 pm
Nvm...
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: SixThumbs on April 11, 2012, 08:48:35 pm
I made an alt and had no problem maintaining 20k gold by level 20 so maybe people just be more fiscally responsible.
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: Idzo on April 11, 2012, 10:58:43 pm
We need fee for every marketplace transaction...
Let's say today is made 500 transactions and that 200 gold is market transaction fee
500 x 200 = 100,000 gold
that's shitload of money to grind
but it isn't big amount for crpg base of players and it's good way to remove 100,000k gold per day...

Now chadz go get me cookies and send me 1mil for this great idea.. ty!
Title: Re: Gold is worhtless
Post by: DrKronic on April 12, 2012, 09:04:26 pm
if u think gold is worthless I will gladly take donations,  actually if the dev's can just rob every gold piece from those in this thread who feel that way and give it to me thanks