cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Greziz on August 01, 2011, 02:55:23 am
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I was a long time heavy armor player, after the changes seems that even the heaviest of armors will fail to cause a powerstrike 1 wooden sword from glancing even when moving with the blow. I would like to ask humbly that the glancing be returned is it not enough that heavy armor nerfs my wpf and run speed making me slow and predictable ontop of costing a boat ton of cash. I spent a very long time learning how to fight in heavy armor learning when a blow would glance if I moved with it to time an attack. I would trade all damage soaking properties of my armor just to have the glance chances returned. I can no longer fufill my mental fantasy of being a big heavy armor juggernaut able to use my armor to my advantage. I emplore the chadz and crew to rethink this change or atleast make the heavy armor more appealing for its price beyond use vs allies and archers, as is it is more of a hinderance in melee than a use.
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I was a long time heavy armor player, after the changes seems that even the heaviest of armors will fail to cause a powerstrike 1 wooden sword from glancing even when moving with the blow. I would like to ask humbly that the glancing be returned is it not enough that heavy armor nerfs my wpf and run speed making me slow and predictable ontop of costing a boat ton of cash. I spent a very long time learning how to fight in heavy armor learning when a blow would glance if I moved with it to time an attack. I would trade all damage soaking properties of my armor just to have the glance chances returned. I can no longer fufill my mental fantasy of being a big heavy armor juggernaut able to use my armor to my advantage. I emplore the chadz and crew to rethink this change or atleast make the heavy armor more appealing for its price beyond use vs allies and archers, as is it is more of a hinderance in melee than a use.
this pretty much. IMO now even a puny agi peasant can take on a full plated behemoth, the glances were a big part of the appeal of shelling out money for plate. Soak is pretty useless since most deaths are caused by gangbangs by lots of people, survivng an extra hit or 2 doesnt matter if you're stunlocked
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Chorin agrees.
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I really didn't expect any support I always feel alone as a turtle. I figured I would just get snide remarks like l2p and learn to block. I would say I am slightly above average but I am no mega awesome dueler etc. I however was a very good heavy plate player. I had almost all but perfected causing glances with plate and learning who and what I couldn't cause to glance.
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you and me both Linden, i was having so much fun glancing the fuck out of people, now i have to play like a fuckign AGI build and try to outfootwork people :(
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I am Commander Bobthehero and this is my favorite suggestion of this board.
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Went from heavy kuyak and mail gloves to lordly cuir and lordly wisbys, feels like godmode now, arrows taking 20% hp away, 1hs 10-30%, 1handers glancing up at messed up angles.. I think its doing its job.
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i have the same lordly set, 1h never glances on me and crossbows still take out 95% of my health. Longbows/warbows deal 40-60%. I don't know who you're playing against but in NA that shit don't fly
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Right now game heavily favors str builds and this was a big and needed equalizer. It is quite foolish from a game design perspective that 1 stat gives you both DAMAGE & SURVIVABILITY. Without some major changes I dont see them reverting to original values.
Note
*make 3rd attribute: constitution and move HP & ironflesh to it. so the guys in plate dont automatically wind up with 25% more HP than non plate wearers
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i have the same lordly set, 1h never glances on me and crossbows still take out 95% of my health. Longbows/warbows deal 40-60%. I don't know who you're playing against but in NA that shit don't fly
Well I have 24str and 4IF... and xbows take away around 60-80% depends. And warbows/longbows only deal 40-60% with speedbonus. (me riding my pony)
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Speed bonus is a bitch, got oneshotted by heavy xbow in full plate on whorsie :(
Anyways, the soak values...on one hand it leaves more space for your personal error, as you can withstand one or two slashes more, but the situation when i bash on a guy with medium armor with 8PS and i need to hit him 3-5 times in before i down him, yet i fall down after 2-3 onehander slashes while i wear around 50body armor, wtf?
For 1hers barely anything changed, if you wanted to be serious, you had enuff PS not to glance, but for 2her the change hurt like hell.
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+11111111111111111111111111111111111111111
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How is it that 5PS mighty swiss halberd bounces on armors if a wooden sword with 1ps doesn't? You're just writing bs.
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How is it that 5PS mighty swiss halberd bounces on armors if a wooden sword with 1ps doesn't? You're just writing bs.
i have not bounced a single time on my 4PS agi spammer
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Bounces can still happen with any weapon and any powerstrike you just now have to be at the absolute start of their swing or end of their swing it is such an extreme reduction in glance from dmg that the only way to force glances is from being at the end or very start of a swing area it is never caused by armor reduction now it seems.
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i already feel useless in strat with an agi shielder... this would make it worse since id glance on light armour guys.
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i already feel useless in strat with an agi shielder... this would make it worse since id glance on light armour guys.
thats because you ARE useless :twisted:
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i have the same lordly set, 1h never glances on me and crossbows still take out 95% of my health. Longbows/warbows deal 40-60%. I don't know who you're playing against but in NA that shit don't fly
really? i mean yeh, 1hs never glance anymore, no matter at what angle it seems. but 95% of hp from xbow? even an arbalest only takes 50% from me if its not a headshot ina lordly heavy kuyak
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+1
As a build designed to fight off archers and ranged weapons, with armor to augment that build, I feel that my build is definitely suffering from the new glance %s (soak values, I don't quite understand how it works).
I got bushwhacked by a peasant with a wooden sword the other day simply because, first, I was overconfident. But second, the was another little baby peasant with a staff hacking away at my back, stumbling me.
I don't usually kill peasants, but the fact that they're now actually doing damage to me make me sad when I hack them down. I shed a tear when I finally gained control of my character.
One of the factors I really enjoyed about cRPG was the simulation aspect of it. While it's not the most SUPER REALISTIC thing there is, I like the glances because it brought an amount of random chance to the table, which mimics the luck of war and combat.
As of now, I think it's too arcadey. If I wanted that, I'd play Counter Strike, or Call of Doodie.
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I want back the old values, this is BS that MEDIUM armor requires 5 hit to kill with 7 ps and 42 cut damage and 150 wpf. Yesterday I fought with a plate dude, he required 10 hit to kill, I was like OMFG WHEN WILL YOU DIE??? I managed to kill him but after that I got rangedspammed badly. And I noticed that with these new values meele fight is MUCH harder while archers/xbowers still 2-3 shot everything.
Edit: Oh and thx by the new values cut dmg is even worse now, so the mace user ranged dudes with blunt dmg kills like a dedicated 2 hander. You can't force every 2 hander and poleuser to go blunt.
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I want back the old values, this is BS that MEDIUM armor requires 5 hit to kill with 7 ps and 42 cut damage and 150 wpf. Yesterday I fought with a plate dude, he required 10 hit to kill, I was like OMFG WHEN WILL YOU DIE??? I managed to kill him but after that I got rangedspammed badly. And I noticed that with these new values meele fight is MUCH harder while archers/xbowers still 2-3 shot everything.
Edit: Oh and thx by the new values cut dmg is even worse now, so the mace user ranged dudes with blunt dmg kills like a dedicated 2 hander. You can't force every 2 hander and poleuser to go blunt.
this! i love swords, just for the style, but if i want not to be gimped, i need to use blunt weapons or the ONE mighty pierce attack the swords have, which is SO hard to block and hurt less than with freaking one hander now.
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You could block? Problem solved. The new values actually made 1 handed swords viable for those who wish to put less in 1 hand.
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You could block? Problem solved.
I agree, just ged rid of armour completely. If two guys are attacking me at the same time, instead of blocking the first guy andmoving so the second guy glances, I shall instead block both of them at the exact same time.
Problem solved.
Oh yeah, get rid of Ironflesh too, just block.
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glancing rate need to be increased in early and late in swings/stabs (all weps)
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The armor changes have really made the longbow the only significantly worthwhile bow. I like using other bows, but the cut damage means it takes half again as many arrows to kill someone as it used too, while longbows and all xbows can kill even easier than before.
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I agree, just ged rid of armour completely. If two guys are attacking me at the same time, instead of blocking the first guy andmoving so the second guy glances, I shall instead block both of them at the exact same time.
Problem solved.
Oh yeah, get rid of Ironflesh too, just block.
You . . . actually expect to win a two on one? Such a feat does and should require skill. Not simply the ability to purchase armour.
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I really didn't expect any support I always feel alone as a turtle. I figured I would just get snide remarks like l2p and learn to block. I would say I am slightly above average but I am no mega awesome dueler etc. I however was a very good heavy plate player. I had almost all but perfected causing glances with plate and learning who and what I couldn't cause to glance.
l2p if you can't use plate. It was boosted this patch, not nerfed.
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You . . . actually expect to win a two on one?
I actually have the audacity to expect my armour to help me last longer before dying and potentially take out a man then focus on the next if I am lucky.
Alternatively, if I mess up a swing, I would like to be able to move so his return swipe glances on me since I don't have enough time to dodge.
Before with top tier armour, you could move to generate a glance while blocking as "insurance" in case I messed up my block and was hit anyways.
I mainly typed my response above because I found the advice rather idiotic, as "just block" means why wear armour of any type then if you can "just block." Hell, why use shields against arrows since you can "just dodge."
EDIT: For the record, I am fine with the way that armour works now with less glancing and more effective damage reduction (though I find it funny that this makes it move away from "realism" which bows moved towards, but whatever, this is a game first and foremost), it is just the statement of "Just Block" is a terrible bit of attitude for refuting something.
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The armor changes have really made the longbow the only significantly worthwhile bow. I like using other bows, but the cut damage means it takes half again as many arrows to kill someone as it used too, while longbows and all xbows can kill even easier than before.
nerf longbow :mrgreen:
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I actually have the audacity to expect my armour to help me last longer before dying and potentially take out a man then focus on the next if I am lucky.
Which it does. Even more so now.
Alternatively, if I mess up a swing, I would like to be able to move so his return swipe glances on me since I don't have enough time to dodge.
Which you can, though less effortlessly and less accidentally.
I mainly typed my response above because I found the advice rather idiotic, as "just block" means why wear armour of any type then if you can "just block." Hell, why use shields against arrows since you can "just dodge."
My response was inspired by the general feeling that people wish to use armour as a crutch to compensate for their lack of finesse. The soak mechanic rewards skill. Why is this a bad thing?
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The armor changes have really made the longbow the only significantly worthwhile bow. I like using other bows, but the cut damage means it takes half again as many arrows to kill someone as it used too, while longbows and all xbows can kill even easier than before.
Bows and crossbows are not much affected by the armor changes. They basicly use the old parameter thanks to a little trick we managed to pull off and should behave like prepatch damage-wise. Sorry if I spoiled the usual making-shit-up though.
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plenty of people glance off my armor...
the changes are definitely better for heavy armor than before.
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I just added a pole.
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I just added a pole.
Is it propping up the poll?
(I jest I jest! I still love you)
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I'd be up for making sweet spots a lot more important, and to make hilt-slashing glance.
but to leave the soak/reduce in place. If that is even possible, who knows.
Glances should be determined more by skill, and If I can move out of your sweet spots and in the opposite direction of where your swing started, I should be able to make you glance. I wore some super heavy armor today and people rarely glanced; I did get their damage lowered due to my footwork, but those were huge mistakes by their part that should have glanced.
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I think glancing is one of those features in the list of polestun and spamming. It should be there but only when you hit at the very end or very beginning of your swing. Less glancing is a great thing. You can have your glances back when I get major spam back.
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I think glancing is one of those features in the list of polestun and spamming. It should be there but only when you hit at the very end or very beginning of your swing. Less glancing is a great thing. You can have your glances back when I get major spam back.
THE NINJA TALK. Piss off with your agi build, the logic want that YOU glance on plate armor. Try pierce or cut a plate armor with a knife or a scythe. Try to hurt an armoured guy with a piece of wood call staff. Plate armor are underpowered. Lot of malus for nearly no adventage. And each patch it get worst than before.
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THE NINJA TALK. Piss off with your agi build, the logic want that YOU glance on plate armor. Try pierce or cut a plate armor with a knife or a scythe. Try to hurt an armoured guy with a piece of wood call staff. Plate armor are underpowered. Lot of malus for nearly no adventage. And each patch it get worst than before.
Well, using a Langes Messer with 87 2h and 5 PS, I had to hit Phyrex and his 70+ armour twelve times to kill him (no chambering, optimal range, stationary, chest hits). I am okay with that, as only one of those hits glanced. You are still quite capable of jumping into a cluster of enemies and spam while wearing plate.
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87 is very low wpf,5ps is not very high and what armour are you using?
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87 is very low wpf,5ps is not very high and what armour are you using?
Kaftan.
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Plate must be buffed. My tincan alt still can't spam his foes properly. :(
Better than my ninja, though. ;)
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would be cool if armor was ablative and lost effectiveness the more hits you took. than you could jack soak back up to original or higher levels
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THE NINJA TALK. Piss off with your agi build, the logic want that YOU glance on plate armor. Try pierce or cut a plate armor with a knife or a scythe. Try to hurt an armoured guy with a piece of wood call staff. Plate armor are underpowered. Lot of malus for nearly no adventage. And each patch it get worst than before.
Ehm, both a knife and a scythe are effective piercing weapons. And a staff is a fine weapon to hurt someone in plate, bang against his helmet until hes unconcious, although a heavier weapon would do the trick better. And sorry for being an agi build, I can't help it that I stay true to the most fun way to play for me instead of going the easy strength route.
Do you like to get spammed? Probably not, I don't like to glance. When I spam you, you can't hit me. When I glance on you, I can't hit you. Spamming and glancing are comparable gimmicks. You dont want spam, I dont want constant glancing.
The new armor system is great that you have less of those moments that you die because you glance, you won't hurt the guy in plate much, but atleast he does get interrupted. Because when you glance your opponent gets a free hit. Also I haven't noticed any difference in my amount of glancing, I still glance when I attack at the arse end of my swing and thats how it should be.
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I don't mind spam. I mind pole stun. I used to deal with spammers I would block until I was sure I could make his next hit glance or chamber him. Spam is still there I just can't cause a glance anymore.
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I don't mind spam. I mind pole stun. I used to deal with spammers I would block until I was sure I could make his next hit glance or chamber him. Spam is still there I just can't cause a glance anymore.
Causing a glance is still perfectly possible.
They just reduced the amount of random glances happening.
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Bows and crossbows are not much affected by the armor changes. They basicly use the old parameter thanks to a little trick we managed to pull off and should behave like prepatch damage-wise. Sorry if I spoiled the usual making-shit-up though.
I guess it was just the MASSIVE nerf to damage from reducing shoot speed by 31%.
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I guess it was just the MASSIVE nerf to damage from reducing shoot speed by 31%.
kesh.... kesh.
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You are still quite capable of jumping into a cluster of enemies and spam while wearing plate.
Naw.. not a tight cluster anyway, like hopping into the group at the top of a ladder in siege. You're so slow that - so long as they are actually attacking you - the swing interruption will likely leave you dead before you can get off a single attack.
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I guess it was just the MASSIVE nerf to damage from reducing shoot speed by 31%.
Reducing the shotspeed actually increased the damage from speedbonuseffects. The slower the projectile, the higher the bonus.
So with the same amount of damage on your bow and arrows (you might have swapped from bodkins to lesser arrows), same PD and wpf, you deal more damage to targets running in your direction.
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The fights did loose a lot of epicness and you get way more gangbanged naow.
More realistic yes !!! more fun noes....
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The fights did loose a lot of epicness and you get way more gangbanged naow.
More realistic yes !!! more fun noes....
Lost epicness but also NOT more realistic actually. Anyone wearing heavy armor IRL would not be staggered by every little 1h sword or stick hit.
Naw.. not a tight cluster anyway, like hopping into the group at the top of a ladder in siege. You're so slow that - so long as they are actually attacking you - the swing interruption will likely leave you dead before you can get off a single attack.
That's happened to me quite a bit now. The main thing wearing heaver armor now does in that scenario is allows you to take more hits before you inevitably die. It's very hard to actually FIGHT in it vs a bunch of players unless maybe you have a very quick weapon and lots of WPF. Now it's like a bunch of gnats attacking and taking down a bear.
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Lost epicness but also NOT more realistic actually. Anyone wearing heavy armor IRL would not be staggered by every little 1h sword or stick hit.
Yea but i was thinking of how you could fight multiple enemies by doing 8 patterns causing lots of bounce now you just get interrupted and die horribly.
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I want to see more votes. As is I am happy that I was not alone in disliking the new armor changes.
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Naw.. not a tight cluster anyway, like hopping into the group at the top of a ladder in siege. You're so slow that - so long as they are actually attacking you - the swing interruption will likely leave you dead before you can get off a single attack.
Good. You're not fucking chuck norris.
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Bump.
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Armour should be what it was, if agi and st builds are not balanced you need to find another way of balancing them.
Like actually enhancing the skills instead.
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No, it stays as it is because I like it. U mad?
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No, it stays as it is because I like it. U mad?
With small modifications.
Less damage to body = more power to axes and berdiche user because bigger chance to destroy enemies shield before they die. Why is berdiche unbalanced and long berdiche not unbalanced, same with great axe and long war axe and all of them have bonus against shield?
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To this day, with all the developpers fucking everything up, Urist is still the only dev I like.
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To this day, with all the developpers fucking everything up, Urist is still the only dev I like.
What makes him so special?
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I think you all tend to miss that a battle should be a team effort. Not you running into a group of people and massacring them by yourself because you have better armor.
Don't be such dumbass Rambos/Chuck Norri/Luke Skywalkers.
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I think you all tend to miss that a battle should be a team effort. Not you running into a group of people and massacring them by yourself because you have better armor.
Don't be such dumbass Rambos/Chuck Norri/Luke Skywalkers.
Pikes.
Many.
Nuff said.
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What makes him so special?
He actually has more than half a brain in his head and is probably the only dev that doesn't keep ALL internal development stuff or all that equation/calculation theorycrafting bullshit a national secret.
From what I've saw he's also the only dev that has yet to fuck something up in a patch.
All the other devs don't even play their own game and/or suck at it and then try to balance shit, completely failing it and then claiming it's the ~~~PINNACLE OF BALANCE~~~.
I would make love to Urist all night long.
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I might point out for those who state that a higher probability of landing a glancing blow against heavy plate might cripple 1h sword users, or otherwise nerf their effectiveness: you are using a sword. Those do cut damage, save for the heartily nerfed thrust, and against a heavily armored opponent it only makes sense that they would glance more.
Now, were 1hers to only have access to swords, I might agree that it would be unfair to make armor once again more glance-tastic. However, 1h users have access to a wide variety of weapons, and whats more, those weapons only take up one slot each. I might suggest that in the event armor reverts to its (in my opinion better, given the recently increased monetary risk of using plate) glancey state, many 1h users may carry multiple weapons. A sword and a pierce or blunt weapon.
Now, I understand that many use 1h swords as secondary weapons, their primary being xbows or bows. I should point out that these people... have xbows or bows.
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Regarding this armor stuff... it will not be reverted, no matter how loudly the whine is.
Despite this, I shall bitch anyway. I personally think that, given the expense of armor, and its fucking coolness, it should make its wearer better able to shrug off the majority (ie, cutting) of attacks. I understand that strength builds are rather... strong in this game, however that issue is a stat based one, and should not be permenantly addressed by altering the items.
Now, I think I should remind everyone that this shit is almost entirely limited to battles and siege servers. I am sure that the developers aim to make the heart and soul of cRPG Strategus, and in Strategus the "plate problem" is practically a non issue. My limited experience suggests that plate is rarely seen in a strat battle, and that this will remain to be the case. The only time I've seen plate is when a clan had a few suits set aside for their most epic players (recently it was Goretooth in an ATS battle, so awesome). I might be wrong about literally everything I just said, though.
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I was a long time heavy armor player, after the changes seems that even the heaviest of armors will fail to cause a powerstrike 1 wooden sword from glancing even when moving with the blow. I would like to ask humbly that the glancing be returned is it not enough that heavy armor nerfs my wpf and run speed making me slow and predictable ontop of costing a boat ton of cash. I spent a very long time learning how to fight in heavy armor learning when a blow would glance if I moved with it to time an attack. I would trade all damage soaking properties of my armor just to have the glance chances returned. I can no longer fufill my mental fantasy of being a big heavy armor juggernaut able to use my armor to my advantage. I emplore the chadz and crew to rethink this change or atleast make the heavy armor more appealing for its price beyond use vs allies and archers, as is it is more of a hinderance in melee than a use.
This.
I bought myself a set of full gothic plate, it was good, very slow, but people glanced and such making up for my slow speed. Two days later the patch comes out. Now, I can get much more kills using something like a gambeson.
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This.
I bought myself a set of full gothic plate, it was good, very slow, but people glanced and such making up for my slow speed. Two days later the patch comes out. Now, I can get much more kills using something like a gambeson.
Use the gambeson then? :wink:
No but srsly, sure it sometimes takes an annoying amount of hits to kill someone, but nowadays footwork is more important for causing glances than armor value, which is great.
People just wading in with full plate, relying on glances to spam ppl to death... that was not fun at all, much less "epic".
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cRPG tend to be skill based, if you only have to buy a plate armor to be good then it's not cRPG.
Keep it like it is.
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The armor change is the best thing to happen to 1-handers. Sure it takes me more hits to kill someone, but I don't bounce off some jackasses x3 heirloomed plate all day long.
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see more and more people scoring kills with 1h thrust these days, now that armor has changed.
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Less glances was a good change. But overall I think armor was nerfed. Armor makes you slow, so usually when you take one hit, it means you are being ganked, and surviving one or two more hits won't change anything with the better armor reduce.
So I would support an overall price reduction on armors, but greater for heavy armors and lower for light armors. Something along the lines of -2,5k for 20k+ armors, -1k for 10k+ armors and -500k for 5k+ armors, ofc smoothed.
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screw that; make armor glance more than before and make it more expensive. Why even have it modeled as plate armor when it doesn't function like it? What is the point?
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screw that; make armor glance more than before and make it more expensive. Why even have it modeled as plate armor when it doesn't function like it? What is the point?
+1
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screw that; make armor glance more than before and make it more expensive. Why even have it modeled as plate armor when it doesn't function like it? What is the point?
Game Balance
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armor is useless because of less (undeserved) glances. weapons useless because they need too many hits against heavy armor. wat do?
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armor is useless because of less (undeserved) glances. weapons useless because they need too many hits against heavy armor. wat do?
Wear weapons to protect ourselves and beat people with armor.