Official Survey about item power

[bosco]

In addition, even a peasant with a pike can stop an armored horse that's charging at full speed, which leaves it open to get ganged.

[Beauchamp]

1st - i think by slot system the throwers (hybrids) were nerfed a lot already. and i heard throwing received even some additional nerf, that was probably totally uneccessary. at least if i see everybody using only wardarts, than there is something wrong with high tier throwing stuff.

2nd - buff charge damage of heavy horses

other than that the game is fine imo. slot system idea was brilliant btw.

p.s. fix the banner balance, its more important than some detailed item tweaking and its still not working as it should (but its another topic).

[Native_ATS]

throwing was way over nerffed, took lances form 12 to 2....
all throwing ammo was droped, so less ammo for 2 slots...
all throwing weapons where nerffed in damg...(even rocks.... and darts)
throwing wont go past 9pt since you cant get enough wpf to throw well...
takes 3jarids at 9pt to kill a man... thats your whole stack... if you miss once your dead, or if u hit a sheild its all over...
maybe you can get someone who can blance them right? so far the team might think that they are some what usefull but they are not at all, was way over nerffed 
Ps: buff gen xp plz... maybe cap it at 2000 at x1?

[Penchik]

Nefr the things that kill me! Buff the things I use!

[ShinySpoons]

Everything generally seems fine. however, throwing may have been overnerfed. As it stands now, there's little reason justifying points in power throw rather than more stats or other skills.

[Dioxete]

voted for polearms because is the most I use, then is the most i Know.
Some polearms got umbalanced and Serious damage nerfed, Or damage nerfed or unbalanced, but not both at the time.
Sheated I think is ok, but seems bugged the hit point most of the time for this weapons.
There's something shared between 2handed and pole, I don't understand why the tooooo much str requirement for hammer and the slot use, again 1 of this things but not both.
Rly hard nerfed.

By the way, heavy lance got rly nerfed, now light lance is way better, it's worthless the range of the heavy lance if you have 1 point less damage and a lot of speed less.
No way that HEAVY lance do less damage than LIGHT :/

FYI: sorry for the bad english ;

[Kafein]

Well said for someone who wants to lay waste to all before him. Why must you think of not the single cavalryman, but the cavalry as a whole?

Why do you think of yourself as the lone warrior? If infantry were in a group, they would be much safer from cavalry.

If a two-hander is swinging at you, hold up your shield, and let your teammate bash in his skull! It does not matter if you get the kill, only that you win, for the multiplier.

If an archer is shooting at you, and you have no shield, hide behind someone who does! Or ask a horseman to assist you while you distract the archer.

Cavalry can only bump into one or two people before being stopped, even without a pike.

When 10 archers get together, and focus their fire, Cavalry gets decimated. 10 two handers will tear through almost any defense. 10 crossbowmen will reduce armored men to scrap. 10 spearmen will keep anyone at bay, 10 1h swordsmen will swarm any foe.

Why must you think of only cavalry when they act as a group? Cavalry act together because you learn very early on, that a lone cav at the start of the battle is mincemeat. It is time for everyone else to learn this lesson, and act together if they want to win a battle.

You talk about cav ignoring the full picture, but it is Kesh who ignores it, and would be happy to see cavalry gone from the game, or limited to only 3 per team.

Cavalry is heavily dependent upon the map terrain and composition of the enemy force. In addition, a cavalryman is also heavily dependent upon his horse, a great expense. Cav is forced to spend less on armor and secondary weapons as he must spend all of it on his horse, maybe a shield, and lance, if he equips himself fully, he will quickly run out of money. If the horseman loses his horse he is usually swarmed and beaten to death, and if not, he may find himself inadequately equipped to fight on foot for someone at his level.

As cavalry becomes more popular, both teams will have similar numbers of cavalry, thus balancing it out. Having many of one type working together on a team will always defeat an opposing team without the correct counter or teamwork. This is also why many people are upset with the "banner balance" mechanic.

You might say "You can't balance this game depending upon people to work together!" but that is stupid, what about Strategus? Are there going to be two sets of rules for balance?

Indeed, well said. Taking the "I pwn everyone anytime" situation as the reference of balance is ignoring the full picture. Although it's tempting to consider it's balanced to murder everyone with ease when you were used to it in previous versions.

[Camaris]

Leave everything as is. (overrides all other options)

i like current balance

[kinngrimm]

(click to show/hide)

LOL, I do, all the time, but thats like saying if a 2hander is swinging at you, hold up a shield, doesn't make a class somehow not OP just by blocking them (and by the way other than crushthrough weapons, lancers have the only UNBLOCKABLE attack - couched lance).  In actual combat, just go watch NA 100 server with 30-40% of the server going cavalry.  You can downblock the first cav, he tramples you, seccond cav following easily lances you.  Or the more common scenario, you downblock or use a pike all the way to an actual melee fight and as soon as you engage anyone they can turn their horse on a dime (arabian) or charge halfwaya cross the field in a few seconds (courser) and either couch you or lollance you while you are meleeing.

Most cavalry kills are not people being unaware but cavalry having much higher speed and maneuverability and a much longer weapon than most allowing them to take advantage and easily kill anyone engaged in melee.  When you are on a horse just skirt the edges of the fight see someone actually try to melee anyone and you can get there within 2 seconds and lance them in the back, its incredibly easy way to rack up 20, sometimes 30 kills on a map with minimal risk.  The supposed counter of get a pike also doesn't work in that scenario as you cant melee very well if you are using a pike or if you are meleeing  or trying to attack a different cavalry person, the same thing happens to you.

The main reason this is possible is because of the huge bonus the riding skill gives to speed and maneuverability, which wasn't horirble as long as there were few cav on the battlefield (just like when there were few throwers on field before january), but as people have acquired more gold, upkeep is more manageable for many using a horse and the imbalance becomes readily noticeable as they proliferate.  It was actually much easier to dodge a lance before January even though horses lost 2 speed because the riding skill requirement of 6 agility kept riding skill lower, but now with the average riding skill being half again as high as it used to be it actually made horses faster and more maneuverable with 2 less speed stats.  Most lances outrange all but the longest polearms (think pikeman but with much greater mobility and a much larger speed bonus), so unless they are really average or bad they will hit you before you strike their horse and downblocking doesn't make them go away they just spin a 180 and hit you when you are meleeing or facing a different horseman.

The best evidence is just watch most fights nowadays and the practical reality of any map with even remotely flat terrain, inevitably cav completely dominate the battlefield every round.  Don't look at your own self as a horseman but how it actually plays out ina  balancing or unbalancing role in large group fights with multiple cavalry.  Inevitably, individual cav don't think speed/maneuvarbility need to be reduced, but thats never the whole picture from agame balancing perspective.

+1

(click to show/hide)

I voted, but also here is something else; Buff AGI builds.

Right now it would appear that high STR builds actually swing and attack faster then their AGI counterparts, all the while wearing their heavy stuff. Which is down right weird, especially when I, personally, am pushing 180 WPF with a katana while wearing about 10 weight in equipment, total.

Additionally, I recommend buffing Athletics, or at least the acceleration. Mount and blade has a strange physics engine, so if you even glance at something that isn't flat you lose a lot of speed, everyone functionally running at the same speed over such terrain as a result. It's silly.

Additionally, having AGI be the ones who swing fast would be nice; Consider STR to be ye olde damage dealers and tanks while AGI the speedy rogues. AGI builds are largely confined to light armor to keep their bonuses going and, additionally, have shit health. (STR and IF give you health, which... AGI builds do not have.) Throwing them a slashyslashy bone would be nice.

+1, but for slightly different reason, as the armor got buffed and the damaged of weapons overall got nerved, all this seems to speak to go for strength builds, as with additional PS they do on a regular base less glancing and more damage and in this sense aren't that much effected from the changes.

[Momo]

+1
+1, but for slightly different reason, as the armor got buffed and the damaged of weapons overall got nerved, all this seems to speak to go for strength builds, as with additional PS they do on a regular base less glancing and more damage and in this sense aren't that much effected from the changes.

Then, high agi builds should glance much MORE than str builds, heavy armor will be actually useful, I like that idea.. atm it's pretty lame that the small 1 handers are cutting trough my 50 armor without any problem, and poles+2hs are glancing more often on me than 1 handers lol..

[Kafein]

I voted, but also here is something else; Buff AGI builds.

Right now it would appear that high STR builds actually swing and attack faster then their AGI counterparts, all the while wearing their heavy stuff. Which is down right weird, especially when I, personally, am pushing 180 WPF with a katana while wearing about 10 weight in equipment, total.

Additionally, I recommend buffing Athletics, or at least the acceleration. Mount and blade has a strange physics engine, so if you even glance at something that isn't flat you lose a lot of speed, everyone functionally running at the same speed over such terrain as a result. It's silly.

Additionally, having AGI be the ones who swing fast would be nice; Consider STR to be ye olde damage dealers and tanks while AGI the speedy rogues. AGI builds are largely confined to light armor to keep their bonuses going and, additionally, have shit health. (STR and IF give you health, which... AGI builds do not have.) Throwing them a slashyslashy bone would be nice.

I would say exactly the opposite. Agistacking + hard hitting long polearm = instawin. Just turn around your opponent spamming the swing from the opposite direction. Super cheap "footwork" that will work in 80% of cases. And you can say that about nearly all 2h weapons. Only 1h are forced to spend some points in str further than their reqs because they can't hit hard enough not to bounce all the time (with swords btw). If you think you aren't fast with 6 points more agi than your opponent, you don't use it right. I think strength should be buffed and agi nerfed (nerfing the ability to turn around and to accelerate faster).

[kinngrimm]

Then, high agi builds should glance much MORE than str builds, heavy armor will be actually useful, I like that idea.. atm it's pretty lame that the small 1 handers are cutting trough my 50 armor without any problem, and poles+2hs are glancing more often on me than 1 handers lol..

they do atm i guess, but for sure only a developer can say who knows the exact calculations and i dont have a beef with that, but in return give the agi whores a buff on agi so they can compensate that disadvantage with either movement or weapon speed.

[ThePoopy]

Then, high agi builds should glance much MORE than str builds, heavy armor will be actually useful, I like that idea.. atm it's pretty lame that the small 1 handers are cutting trough my 50 armor without any problem, and poles+2hs are glancing more often on me than 1 handers lol..

+1

glancing rate need to be increased in early and late in swings/stabs (all weps)

[Whalen207]

Everyone is going to nerf Cav...

          

[7000bc]

No nerf EVERYTHING slot?