Getting shot down by the arbalest is always pretty frustrating.. There is very little you can do, as you never get a chance if you didn't see him first.
In my mind.. 1 shotting weapons against an average build+average armor should not be in the game. Especially not ranged.
I'd say, increase the speed of arbalest, but reduce the damage enough that it doesn't one shot all the time.
I think the heavy crossbows are a pain and a nuisance, by competing directly with archery for ranged dmg.
In a boring lowskill coward way.
For gameplay, it is no fun, as there is little teamplay, just ppl camping in the back.. hiding/ducking while reloading.
No fun being shot at either .. as you never see it comming..
And if you actually manage to flank and get behind them.. or even find them... they are well armoured and hard to take down (harder than soft archers atleast)
Iknow realism is no good card to play.. but the heavy crossbows appeared late in the medival period..
I would love to see crossbows reduced to a novelty shortrange trinket.. that gave melee/cav with 2 spare slots a little prefight suckerpunch.
I play purely as archer, so im heavily biased ofc ..
I'd love for crossbows to be a lot faster at reloading but dealing less damage.
We don't need one hitting slow to reload sniper rifles.
Might aswell go archery then.Why? Holding your shot is what crossbowery is all about. It shouldn't beabout onehitting people.
With 57 b armor and 18/18 2IF spec (cav 6 riding 6 ath) I get onehit by an arbalest 8 out of 10 times. An experienced xbowman with good timing combined with pinpoint accuracy.. yeah shitstorm. Either nerf overall dmg or change to pierce damage to cut (yeah i ate shit as an archer for 7 months , I hope xbowmen will too)
But honestly, the only way xbows will ever get noticeably nerfed (not upkeep, screw that crap) is if fasader doesnt do item balancing anymore.
With 57 b armor and 18/18 2IF spec (cav 6 riding 6 ath) I get onehit by an arbalest 8 out of 10 times.
I find this claim to be laugh out loud implausible. My latests test, 91p vs 53ba (15str/0if), in the chest, killed 1 time out of 10 at a range of 15m. So either you are Calamity James in disguise, or you are making shit up.
While playing with as 18/18 0IF 53b armor (L30) on a siege server i got onehit 7 times and survived one bolt at close-medium range ( with 3-5%ish left) from a player called hygat or something like that, I dont remember the exact name, I dont know what he was using(arbalest obviously, dont know if MW) either but try explaining that.
And with 18/18 2IF 57b armor on champion arabian pony In most of the cases i get onehit, the extra damage from speed bonus is really massive I suppose.
@ 5% kills.
Yeah true xbomwen rarely top the scoreboards, but they have the firepower to kill enemy teams best player in one/two shots making a MASSIVE impact on the battle.
While playing with 18/18 0IF 53b armor (L30) on a siege server i got onehit 7 times and survived one bolt at close-medium range ( with 3-5%ish left) from a player called hygat or something like that, I dont remember the exact name, I dont know what he was using(arbalest obviously, dont know if MW) either but try explaining that.
ITT: people who don't know how the speed bonus works.feels good man
just buy a shield.
Even this isn't much protection with the surge in ranged POPULATION (not power). I think all ranged weapons are in a good spot, and none should be nerfed or buffed really. They're annoying, they're deadly, and when you have more than one ranged player that knows how to work with other ranged players there is NO protection from them. With full body shields we've had plenty of running nights where map after map the 8-15 fucking ranged players are all on one team and our team is getting hit from every angle with our shields doing nothing to save us because there's literally nowhere to go except hide with your back in a corner until your shield breaks. It's fucking obnoxious. That said, again I believe ranged in general is in a good place right now.
just buy a shield
I disagree with the nerf cycle, Fundamentally. Also, statistically the arbalest isn't even doing that great for kills so it doesn't warrant a nerf. Lots of threads on xbow balance already.
TBH there are more cases of gear&builds that are underpowered and not viable which should be buffed. Bringing those in line with other things makes the game way more spicier with different options, and is more important than a slight suggested change to a mostly non-factor weapon like the arbalest.
*I'm clearly biased as somebody who never uses the arbalest but gets shot by them all the time. Just aren't a big deal tbh.
I have 5 shield skill and using an Heavy kite shield, usually 50 % of the times it gets pierced and I lose half hp, even with a medium tier armour...
If they aim right, it pierces 100% of the time, but only very close range.
Try dodging instead of going in a straight line and be happy he didn't headshot you.
"just buy a shield"
That arguement should be treated as a curseword and be automaticlly censored on this forum. I'd rather buy a bottle of aids and shove in my face then buying a shield.
Dodging only works (efficently against skilled xbowmen) if you arent holding your shield up and most of the time the shield either shatters completely after two shots or gets pierced easily, the only way shielders would be able to dodge bolts is if the proj speed got nerfed like on bows, but since that is never going to happen...
the whole "just buy a shield" argument simply doesnt work like against archers.
I have 5 shield skill and using an Heavy kite shield, usually 50 % of the times it gets pierced and I lose half hp, even with a medium tier armour...
The thread should have ended here honestly. I mean, my gosh, I can only think of two other people in the NA servers other than myself that can do well with them and even then we are virtually non existent when the fog and rain hits in (which is pretty god damn often)
Saying something deserves a nerf just because "it does alot of damage" isn't really fair at all. The only people making the arbalest work are the dedicated users. And they are few and far in between.
I'd love for crossbows to be a lot faster at reloading but dealing less damage.
All the other crossbows are fine I think, but the Arbalest is seriously OP.
I was one-shotted by Fallen_With_Stupid's [Masterwork] Arbalest while I was in 38 body armor. I have 21 strength and 7 ironflesh. There was no speed bonus, because he was right in front of me.
That arguement should be treated as a curseword and be automaticlly censored on this forum. I'd rather buy a bottle of aids and shove in my face then buying a shield.
Ever played native? Higher damaging and slower crossbows are a lot worse, compared to faster and less damaging ones.I know, crossbows cant compete enough because of their sluggish reload times, archers are getting all the kills by finishing people off, this is why crossbowers almost never top the boards. Instead they are given an insane amount of damage to compensate :/
Seeing as you've already had a shielder alt...
How'd that bottled Aids taste?
That's the main problem :
An item being balanced when it's raining... i mean... lol
Does that means it's overpowered when it's sunny ?
We had cav maps, and know, we also have "weather maps".
Statistics show that on average, crossbowmen account for a paltry 5% of a team's kills.You do realize that statistic doesn't tell us anything about balance unless we know what percentage of active players are crossbowmen, right?
All the other crossbows are fine I think, but the Arbalest is seriously OP.
I was one-shotted by Fallen_With_Stupid's [Masterwork] Arbalest while I was in 38 body armor. I have 21 strength and 7 ironflesh. There was no speed bonus, because he was right in front of me.
I once one shot Xant
Agreed Darkkarma...the arbalest and all the other xbows are in balance right now. If you give archers back there pre-patch speed, we would be able to shoot the xbowmen before they hide and reload. As it is right now the arrow doesn't make it in time. That is why you see more alive at the end of the round one shoting you(as it should if it hits you...it's a 900 yard weapon).
Okay, next patch arbalest gets 90 speed.
All the other crossbows are fine I think, but the Arbalest is seriously OP.
I was one-shotted by Fallen_With_Stupid's [Masterwork] Arbalest while I was in 38 body armor. I have 21 strength and 7 ironflesh. There was no speed bonus, because he was right in front of me.
u mad, crossbow haters?
Okay, next patch arbalest gets 90 speed.
You lost me atThan you read the whole thing.DaveWhineUKR lobbying...
After patch Arbalest will have 90 (animation) speed while longbow keeps it 50. With that we hope to double the amount of crossbow kills which only score half as many kills as bows do at the moment. Newest scientific research showed that there is a square root relation between animation speed and kill rate. So quadrupling the crossbow speed would have been enough in theory but a decent lobbying effort by DaveUKR convinced us to make it x5.
Than you read the whole thing.
I'm still wondering why crossbows aren't given less damage but more reload speed, it's retarded that they have to stay at this high damage stateand being so slow to be effective again. Onehits are OP and reloads are UP, tweak both, and you win.
I once one shot Xant when he was wearing 50+ body armor (and I'm sure that bastard had some IF as well), and wasnt even point blank. I call OP!
Crossbows have high damage because there is no skill that increases their damage. Every other weapon has a skill that increases damage by a percentage base, if they had anywhere near the damage an xbow does their damage would quickly spiral out of control. If xbows were decreased so their damage looked anything near what a bow or swords looks like they would be so underpowered as to be useless. I find it interesting that people complain all day about ranged one hits, and yet nothing is said about 2her one hits...You don't get my point at all, I ofc want crossbows to deal more base damage than melee/ranged since they get no ps or pd.
You don't get my point at all, I ofc want crossbows to deal more base damage than melee/ranged since they get no ps or pd.
Is it so hard to understand what people are trying to say without bloating it up to massive idiotic proportions?
Atm xbows are nothing less than a high damage low reload sniper rifle, they cant compete like this.
I'm still wondering why crossbows aren't given less damage but more reload speed,
Wow, how could anyone have gotten the wrong idea by:And how would tweaking that reduce their damage output compared to archers?
I just explained why they're not given less damage, if they had less damage they wouldn't compete no matter what the increase in reload speed- unless it was so high they might as well be a bow. Idiotic proportions, indeed.
And how would tweaking that reduce their damage output compared to archers?
A longbow deals 26 pierce damage, powerdraw only adds above the requirement, most archers go for 6 or 7, that would mean crossbows can definatly be tweaked.
Jesus i wish more people took 2 seconds to figure out mechanics before throwing their 2 cents in on how to balance weapons and items they rarely use.Deleted the bullshit.
Deleted the bullshit.
I'd wish people like you took a lot more than just 2 seconds to figure out mechanics, powerdraw only adds damage above the bows requirement up untill +4. Want Paul to explain it to you?
Longbow 6 PD req, most of the archers go just that. Do you seriously believe that every longbow user does 26p damage with his bow? Before any armor calculation? To test it, grab huntign crossbow, 37p, and check how much damage it does to naked person. Then grab a longbow use with 6 pd and o the same.You forgot to add arrow damage =).
THEN talk about game mechanics.
Do you see what post did I respond to?
And yes, ask Paul if you want, he's always gracefully answered this question countless times. If you believe people do that much damage with a longbow, theyd be killing people a lot faster.
PD damage and projectile speed bonus is limited to a maximum of ( bow_difficulty + 4 ). It makes sense though, because you can't put an unlimited amount of energy into a certain bow - it will simply break. So we'll not change that.
The only theoretical advantage of having high powerdraw while using a weak bow is that one should be able to hold the aim accurately for longer (and maybe draw the bow quicker). The thing with holding the aim for longer is already ingame and it is not capped at ( bow_difficulty + 4 ).
Do you see what post did I respond to?If you seriously believe a MW Longbow+Mw Bodkins deal 68.08 pierce damage at 6 powerdraw, than you are deluded.
If you seriously believe a MW Longbow+Mw Bodkins deal 68.08 pierce damage at 6 powerdraw, than you are deluded.
In my opinion on how to nerf crossbows:
Stop them from going through shields with out breaking them and killing people.
In return make it so crossbows are not affected during bad weather.
If you seriously believe a MW Longbow+Mw Bodkins deal 68.08 pierce damage at 6 powerdraw, than you are deluded.
In my opinion on how to nerf crossbows:
Stop them from going through shields with out breaking them and killing people.
In return make it so crossbows are not affected during bad weather.
I'd wish people like you took a lot more than just 2 seconds to figure out mechanics, powerdraw only adds damage above the bows requirement up untill +4. Want Paul to explain it to you?
EXAMPLE TIEM
Level 30 crossbowman with arbalest+steel bolts.
price: 18796+2263=21059
Mundane:
base damage: 79p + 8p = 87p
final damage: 87p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)
Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 87p + 13p = 100p
final damage: 87p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)
damage difference: 100p-87p=13p
percentage increase: 100p/87p * 100% - 100% = 15%
Level 30 archer with 18 str, 6 PS and 150 wpf using a longbow + bodkin arrows
price: 9974+5058=15032
Mundane:
base damage: 26p + 6p = 32p
final damage: 67p (bonus from wpf, PD and str)
Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 29p + 8p = 37p
final damage: 77p (bonus from wpf, PD and str)
damage difference: 77p-67p=10p
percentage increase: 77p/67p * 100% - 100% = 15%
If you seriously believe a MW Longbow+Mw Bodkins deal 68.08 pierce damage at 6 powerdraw, than you are deluded.
(Raw) damage is randomised sligthly(0.9-1.0) but both of the following armor soak and reduce calculation armor is randomised by 0.5 to 1.0. So with higher the armor level the target has, the wider is the possible damage range.
Example:
MW Arbalest with MW steel bolts -> base_damage = 100p
against naked, point blank, body shot:
90 to 100 damage (aka certain death)
against 30 (body) armor, point blank, body shot:
55 to 81 damage, 67 avr, damage span = 81 - 55 = 26
against 50 armor, point blank, body shot:
38 to 70 damage, 52 avr, damage span = 70 - 38 = 32
against 70 armor, point blank, body shot:
25 to 61 damage, 40 avr, damage span = 61 - 25 = 36
My work here is done.
You actually post in these forums from time to time?
I can easily get 1 hit by some pole-wielding-maniac, or 2-handed-spammer. Now, does that mean I go to the forum making a whine thread about it? I'll answer that, in case you missed the irony: No.
I have 50 hp, if someone looks at me funny in melee I die. That's the price I pay for using a Highly Situational Weapon. It is not OP, but just as cav, it is better on some maps and worse on some.
I believe "2-hitting" for medium armoured, and 3 shots and above for heavy, is the intention with the arbalest. If you lower the damage output, there will be no reason to take it over a bow. In all honesty, it is very rare for me as an xbower to get that second or third shot in. I shoot unaware non-strafing people over dodging aware people any day, we don't have the luxury of spraying bolts around.. =)
I agree with this. The problem is that (with Paul's released damage info) it is VERY possible to 1-hit someone in medium armor with a bodyshot. That just ain't cool. MW Arbalests could use an adjustment.
Then the Arbalest is obsolete in favour of the Heavy Crossbow.
Just remove the arbalest and give the MW arbalest users a MW heavy xbow+ 1 free loom point :mrgreen:
Problem solved.
Just remove the arbalest and give the MW arbalest users a MW heavy xbow+ 1 free loom point :mrgreen:
Problem solved.
GTFO!
Your kind is not welcome!
Also, I'm not saying nerf the shit out of xbows. I'm saying MW xbows shouldn't 1-hit level 30 players in medium armor.
Why not?
So its upto xbowmen to balance their class?
I see what you did there.
Arbalest is awsome and it's normal to 1 hit-> kill .. so don't nerf anything,it's fine atm :shock:
Because it's dumb. It's also no fun. I don't 1-hit people with my masterwork german poleaxe. I sure as hell don't one-shot people with my 1-hander. Throwing weapons don't 1-hit either. They may be able to shoot faster, but they have to put themselves in much more danger to do so.
If you are all saying that 1-shots are rare anyway, what's so bad about getting rid of them completely? Especially if you still have guaranteed 2-shots on medium armor?
The fact is, it's a game and I don't think anyone should be 1-shotting anyone (unless it's a headshot). 1-shots make the game less fun.
So its upto xbowmen to balance their class?
I see what you did there.
If you're claiming you've never one shot anyone with your german polearm I'm claiming either you have a terrible build, are a terrible player, or are outright lying.
We're talking about high-level players here. Not peasants.
My masterwork German Poleaxe does 45 CUT damage. With my PS of 7, that gives me 70 CUT damage. So if a level 30 player is wearing no armor, there's a good chance I could 1-shot them. Especially after the changes to armor soak value, I doubt I could 1-shot the average level 30 player in even light armor without a good speed bonus.
Math is fun. You should try it sometime.
We're talking about high-level players here. Not peasants.
My masterwork German Poleaxe does 45 CUT damage. With my PS of 7, that gives me 70 CUT damage. So if a level 30 player is wearing no armor, there's a good chance I could 1-shot them. Especially after the changes to armor soak value, I doubt I could 1-shot the average level 30 player in even light armor without a good speed bonus.
Math is fun. You should try it sometime.
You've one shotted me before on karma in my various get ups. Although extremely rare, you will almost always 2- shot my character regardless though. The reload time on the arbalest mixed with the difficulty with hitting from distance make it fine IMO. Unless you run or just straight into the shot, i'm not going to one shot you. I eman yeah, one shots are lame, I totally agree, but then why don't we nerf the bec a bit then? Why not nerf any other weapon that one-shots people. My apologies, I just don't see why a weapon should be nerfed because it can occasionally one shot people.
By the way i have a logical counter to all your complaints.
Elite scimitars are one of the best in their class, you see tons of 1handers using them, they are almost standard.
Bec de Corbins are great in their class, you see tons of people using them, and they are incredibly common.
Arbalests are the ??? in their class, you see ??? using them, and they are ??? common?
Hint: The only person i know who consistently uses an arby is DarkKarma, any others? Half the time people complain about getting killed by an "arbalest" it's just that they have been charging full force into my regular crossbow bolts.
If arbalests were so good they would be all over the place, just like any other weapon that is best in class. As it stands i almost never see an arbalest user. Like i said, they are incredibly niche and nowhere near overpowered. If they were overpowered everyone would want and be using one, especially in the past when one could get away with 1 wpf in xbows.
Because it's dumb. It's also no fun. I don't 1-hit people with my masterwork german poleaxe. I sure as hell don't one-shot people with my 1-hander. Throwing weapons don't 1-hit either. They may be able to shoot faster, but they have to put themselves in much more danger to do so.It would be a strain to consider fighting a back peddling polespammer 'fun'. Particularly when one is hampered by a lack of melee proficiency and lengthy weaponry, as Arbalesters often are. And yes, you do one hit people.
If you are all saying that 1-shots are rare anyway, what's so bad about getting rid of them completely? Especially if you still have guaranteed 2-shots on medium armor?
The fact is, it's a game and I don't think anyone should be 1-shotting anyone (unless it's a headshot). 1-shots make the game less fun.No, the fact is, many games incorporate a level of lethality equal to, and often greater than cRPG. The current damage model is extremely forgiving by comparison to, for example, Red Orchestra.
It would be a strain to consider fighting a back peddling polespammer 'fun'. Particularly when one is hampered by a lack of melee proficiency and lengthy weaponry, as Arbalesters often are. And yes, you do one hit people.
No, the fact is, many games incorporate a level of lethality equal to, and often greater than cRPG. The current damage model is extremely forgiving by comparison to, for example, Red Orchestra.
Also, a MW Arbalest with MW bolts gets a 13p damage increase. That's WAY higher than any other item in the game. Again, what makes xbows so special?
EXAMPLE TIEM
Level 30 crossbowman with arbalest+steel bolts.
price: 18796+2263=21059
Mundane:
base damage: 79p + 8p = 87p
final damage: 87p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)
Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 87p + 13p = 100p
final damage: 87p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)
damage difference: 100p-87p=13p
percentage increase: 100p/87p * 100% - 100% = 15%
Level 30 archer with 18 str, 6 PS and 150 wpf using a longbow + bodkin arrows
price: 9974+5058=15032
Mundane:
base damage: 26p + 6p = 32p
final damage: 67p (bonus from wpf, PD and str)
Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 29p + 8p = 37p
final damage: 77p (bonus from wpf, PD and str)
damage difference: 77p-67p=10p
percentage increase: 77p/67p * 100% - 100% = 15%
You need to realize that xbows are not affected by any skill, they get what they get. Every other weapon is affected by corresponing skill making the hierloom damage much higher than listed on the paper.
Ranged looms are stupid in general, a ranged opponent with a +6 weapon is a MUCH higher threat than someone without looms. Fully loomed longbows are a pain aswell, simply because of the damage output.
In the case of the arbalest, those 13 points of damage really pushes it into the "oneshot-zone", making "fighting" fully loomed arbalest users a pain, while stock ones are not so much of an issue.
I totally understand that, which accounts for its already really high initial damage value. I totally agree with that damage value. I just don't think you can run a straight percentage increase on this as the values break down the higher the initial damage.
Also, the not needing to put points in anything is one of the bonus of a crossbow. To put things in perspective...
A plain old arbalest with steel bolts does 87p damage.
a 39/3 build with a MW bec does 90p damage. That takes a HEAVY investment.
I'm not saying to just dump some of the damage. I'm saying drop a few points in damage and give them something to compensate. Like, increase the reload speed, or get rid of that stupid firing delay.
(click to show/hide)
The looms are the issue imo. Make the looms add more shot/realoding speed and less damage (making the weapon better for ranged duels, while making it less extreme in the damage department)
Are you seriously incapable of comprehending two lines of text?
Oh but for fks sake -_-
I said BUFF non-loomed ranged weapons and NERF the looms, tweaking them so that the heaviest of ranged weps don't do insane amounts of damage (i.e the arbalest currently), while increasing their capabilities in other areas to compensate.(click to show/hide)
Here's one shot from the Arbalest while in full Milanese plate, gloves and all:your lucky....
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(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/unledkoi.jpg/)
A regular crossbow shot then finished the rest...
Here's one shot from the Arbalest while in full Milanese plate, gloves and all:
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(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/unledkoi.jpg/)
A regular crossbow shot then finished the rest...
Here's one shot from the Arbalest while in full Milanese plate, gloves and all:
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(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/unledkoi.jpg/)
A regular crossbow shot then finished the rest...
Here's one shot from the Arbalest while in full Milanese plate, gloves and all:
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(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/unledkoi.jpg/)
A regular crossbow shot then finished the rest...
Here's one shot from the Arbalest while in full Milanese plate, gloves and all:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/unledkoi.jpg/)
A regular crossbow shot then finished the rest...
And another arbalest user comes...
Crossbows do more damage, don't have a speed reduction like bows, require less WPF and Strength, and some reload just as fast as a bow can. What else!
Just nerf the arbalest. AKA THREAD TITLE!
READ WHAT I SAID!!!!
READ WHAT I SAID!!!! That took me a while to write out and I even checked for typos. :(
READ WHAT I SAID. ARBALEST IS OP EVERYONE KNOWS IT. NOT ALL CROSSBOWS ARE, JUST ARBALEST. NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRFELZ!
Gotta love this hysteria.
Whether or not the arbalast is op, no one respecs xbowers anyways.
<3 karma and stupid 8-)
Gotta love this hysteria.
respecs or respects? :lol:
Just nerf the arbalest. AKA THREAD TITLE!Miley is weried and we dont see eye to eye alot, but he is right.
So if i throw gold at people can i 1 shot them? :rolleyes: